back to article Brexit threatens Cornish pasty's racial purity

Any reader who's still undecided as to how to vote in the forthcoming, and increasingly tedious, EU referendum, should consider a Brexit future without the culinary protection afforded us by membership of the happy European family of nations. Last week, the Cornish Pasty Association came out in favour of Britain remaining in …

  1. alain williams Silver badge

    Champagne Cider

    Several years ago some British cider makers sold what they called 'Champagne Cider'. The EU stopped them selling that - apparently confusing with something made with grapes in North East France.

    If we leave the EU will they be able to market it again ? (In the UK/world, but not the EU).

    Yes: the French would complain about their sour grapes - but would we care ?

    1. Old Tom

      Re: Champagne Cider

      You mean Pomagne Champagne Cider?

      Christ, I drank that stuff in my mid-teens. They had to drop the Champagne tag in 1979 due to it being a designated area of origin.

    2. DrXym Silver badge

      Re: Champagne Cider

      If I recall it was someone making elderflower champagne and they had to change the name to something else because champagne was a protected designation of origin. British food & drink producers benefit from the same rules e.g. Melton Mowbray pies are protected. At one point Newcastle Brown Ale was protected and then the manufacturer moved their factory out of Newcastle they had to have their protection cancelled because they were in violation of their own protection (!).

    3. Vinyl-Junkie
      FAIL

      Re: Champagne Cider

      Another Brexit lie. The exclusive right to the name Champagne for a sparkling wine produced in the Champagne region of France is protected under the International Regulation of Marks, aka the Madrid System under a treaty of 1891 and specifically reaffirmed in the Treaty of Versailles. The use of the name for any alcoholic drink other than the French regional variety is also banned in those well known EU countries the USA, Chile, Australia, New Zealand & South Africa, amongst others.

      1. ravenviz

        Re: Champagne Cider

        Australia *is* in the EU, I saw it on Eurovision. And Azerbaijan. I think Bahrain will join when they've run out of countries beginning with 'A'.

        1. Paratrooping Parrot
          Mushroom

          Re: Champagne Cider

          Israel has been at Eurovision for donkeys years.

        2. Kernel Silver badge

          Re: Champagne Cider

          "Australia *is* in the EU, I saw it on Eurovision."

          An ex-colleague, recently having breakfast at a hotel, felt that he had to inform the little lad at the next table that despite what his parents were assuring him it was extremely unlikely that they would be seeing kangaroos in the wild any time soon.

          According to the kid's parents it is entirely my ex-colleague's fault that Austria is not seething with a wide range of marsupials.

          It really pays to turn off auto-complete when booking that overseas holiday.

      2. Fibbles

        Re: Champagne Cider

        The exclusive right to the name Champagne for a sparkling wine produced in the Champagne region of France is protected under the International Regulation of Marks, aka the Madrid System under a treaty of 1891 and specifically reaffirmed in the Treaty of Versailles.

        Does the exclusive right to the Champagne name only extend to sparkling wines? If so that'd explain why the wine producers haven't sued the Champagne Cognac producers. It'd make for an interesting legal battle since AFAIK the Champagne regions in south-west France have been making brandy longer than the Champagne region in north-west France has been making sparkling wine.

        1. Vinyl-Junkie

          Re: Champagne Cider

          There's a specific exception for Champagne Cognac in the original registration mark for Champagne, because it was already in existence, and derives its name from the region in which it is produced; although that is not the same region as the sparkling wine.

          Usage suggests that is does indeed only apply to sparkling wine however as, contrary to the original poster's assertion, Bulmers won the case brought against them by Bollinger, as they were using the méthode champenoise to produce Pomagne. However the year after they won the case they switched to bulk industrial fermentation, and therefore could no longer justify the "champagne" tag.

          Cheers! :)

          1. x 7

            Re: Champagne Cider

            actually......there are records of the "méthode champenoise" being used in Somerset BEFORE it was recorded in France. Admittedly we were making cider, not wine, but the method was identical. To quote from http://www.ukcider.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Burrow_Hill_Cider

            "This so called ‘Champagne Method’ was pioneered in Hereford in 1632 by Lord Scudamore before the Civil War and had reached Montacute House in Somerset by 1664, long before the French even claim to have invented the method…"

            So the bloody frogs were pinching our strategic technology yet again!

            Interestingly, the hill west of Montacute is terraced with what were - according to village tradition - vineyards, though it was never clear if the supposed wine makers were the Romans, or the Clunaic (i.e. French) monks. Perhaps both? Wine is still grown further north in Somerset

      3. boltar

        Re: Champagne Cider

        "Another Brexit lie."

        Oh come on, this is El Reg. Are you honestly expecting accuracy in the minutae of international trademark protection? :) Plus the article was somewhat tongue in cheek.

      4. Abdul-Alhazred

        Something about the USA aggreeing that only the French, etc?

        Google "Taylor New York Champagne".

      5. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: Champagne Cider

        US law requires the grape to be the correct varietal for a sparkling wine to be called champagne.

        1. DiViDeD Silver badge

          Re: Champagne Cider

          International Law requires that the wine be produced in the Champagne region of France to be called Champagne.

          I realise that International Law doesn't trump US Law (at least, not in the US it doesn't)

    4. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Champagne Cider

      Dunno why being in the EU or not would make much difference.

      French winemakers used the area of origin laws to stop australian and kiwi winemakers labelling their stuff as champagne - then promptly put those same winemakers to work making wine under contract to be sold as "champagne"

      It's not so much about area of origin as manufacturer name protection. Making it under license is apparently ok.

    5. Lars Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Champagne Cider

      The heat is up regarding the referendum, apparently also on ElReg articles. I wrote a "stay" comment on "itsmymoney" that was rejected, and I wonder why. And no, I did not mention nor Champagne nor Cognac or Scotch Whisky.

      Was the reason that I wrote I rather listen to a guy like Stephen Hawking than to guys like Farage and Boris because Hawking is known to use his brains and is not running for office.

      Or was it because - "It's sad to see how Brits have fallen for the same rhetoric as the Trumpers in the USA. "Make America great again - Everybody is cheating on us - Those fucking foreigners - I will make great deals again".

      Or perhaps It was because I suggested it's better to look forward than to one's arse, while I fully admitted that I tend to look at the "behind" when it comes to women.

      Oh well, you know I love you too, but I have to tell a story some old seamen told me then long ago.

      I went to sea as a merchant sailor when I was sixteen, see the world and all of that. (IT came much later in 1967).

      What those old men told me was that some years after the war they sailed into some harbour in England much surprised to find it looked just as before. Longshoremen than told them - yes indeed, it was all destroyed during the Blitz but they built it up just as it was. Perhaps just "one of those stories" but still, somebody must have invented it, out of the blue?.

      While the referendum is up to you, it's also a divorce, and I feel no reason not to express my opinion, with all due respect.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "While the referendum is up to you, it's also a divorce"

        .. from a forced marriage.

        1. Terry 6 Silver badge

          "from a forced marriage"

          Absolutely untrue.

          We voted.

          But the current revote is less about the value of the EU and much more about the feeling that everyone in Europe is a foreigner except us, Whipped up by the usual populist politicians and witch hunting newspapers who've been spreading FUD for years..

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            No, it's absolutely true.

            We voted for the EEC, not the EU - which is a political union.

            Your assumptions about how British people should "feel" towards Europe are incidental to the issue of political union. We can remain on good terms with our European neighbours and have close cooperation and trading relationships without surrendering our country to the institution that is the EU.

            The public are being conned into thinking they must adopt one of two opinions: hating Europeans or hating ourselves so much that we subordinate ourselves to a superstate. We can stay independent and remain close to Europe just as Norway and Switzerland do.

            1. John H Woods

              "We can stay independent and remain close to Europe just as Norway and Switzerland do." -- AC

              Perhaps, but it's not guaranteed... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/10/three-reasons-a-post-brexit-uk-cant-copy-norway-or-switzerland/ (which, despite the URL, lists 4 reasons).

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              > We voted for the EEC, not the EU - which is a political union

              ... and introduced via the back door, not openly.

              The symbols of statehood in our passports, driving licences etc have been replaced with the EU flag. There is even a .eu top-level domain. It thinks of itself as a country.

              Was the idea that after a couple of generations, people would wake up thinking of themselves as citizens of the EU too?

              Are these things really required of a common trading area?

            3. Captain Queeg

              Good terms?

              It's a fair point, but this is real life. can we really believe we can remain on good terms with our European neighbours given that the vote leave campaign has more of less descended to nothing but jingoism and Johnny Foreigner baiting?

              Of course the standard response to that is "Well, we don't accept that" to any non supportive view, rather than explaining why the view is wrong.

              If we put this into microcosm though, if I repeatedly tell my next door neighbour that he's cunning, evil, wants to steal my lawn mower, that he wants me to buy his children's school shoes and that I absolutely never want to help him if his house ever catches fire, I'd expect him not to want to have a lot to do with me. Unfortunately the more fervent Brexiteers appear more interested in winning the battle and by doing so losing the war (poor analogy in this case! lol, but i hope you get my point).

              I agree we /could/ operate in harmony (as a remainer, I believe less prosperously), but crucially not the way things are going.

              Sadly messy divorces, tend to stay messy for years, so the reasons to divorce must be overwhelming to offset the cut up clothes, legal interventions and point scoring.

              1. Lars Silver badge
                Happy

                Re: Good terms?

                Divorce or not, Brexit or not.

                Suppose you are in the process of divorcing. Some of your friends will perhaps point out that you have children, your wife is actually a very nice person, you work for a great company. All about the reality, so think again, don't destroy what you have, rather build on it. Non of those friends will claim that divorcing will suddenly open up a new heaven for you.

                Then compare that to the friends who support your divorce. They can claim/suggest you will meet the women of your life, young beautiful, and if not rich her mother will be and her grandfather will appoint you CEO. Your teeth will grow back like your hair, and you will have a hell of a yacht.

                This is what is going on in this Brexit debate. There is no limit to the lies and no limit to the fantasy,

                Suddenly Airbus will fuck off and the Comet will fill the sky, suddenly the Commonwealth will bail the country out, suddenly Australia will order British submarines, suddenly there will be sunshine, suddenly Britain will rule the seas again, suddenly Britain will be top notch in nuclear technology. Tata will beg to return to Britain building cars and making British Steel number one in the world.

                This is how the game is played.

                It's like there is something new in the hair. On both sides of the pond.

                Rather build on the reality.

                1. It wasnt me

                  Re: Good terms?

                  I completely agree. We should build on what we have. We should shape the EU from within. Here's a thing though. We tried that. Cameron came to the EU with a begging bowl and got told in no uncertain terms to go home. He barely got scraps. Nothing at all meaningful. You see unless an individual nation states goals are exactly in line with the political integration master plan, the EU is not interested.

                  Which is why I will be voting to leave. Personally I sincerely hope that this leads to some meaningful negotiations followed by a second referendum.

                  But if it doesn't then I am prepared to take a hit on the economy and prosperity and all the other apocalyptic goings on that the remainers foresee just so that I can retain the right to elect my leaders, and to send them packing when they fail.

                  If we get a second vote and it includes some basic safeguards then I'm in. Otherwise, I want to leave.

                  Hey look - nothing at all racist about that argument.

                  1. Terry 6 Silver badge

                    Re: Good terms?

                    Here's the rub;

                    "...... the right to elect my leaders, and to send them packing when they fail."

                    Corbyn? Soon, maybe, for the Tories, Gove or "Boris"?

                    I'm a usually a Labour supporter. But I didn't want Corbyn to be their leader. I loath the man and his Old Left cronies. I can't vote for that crew.

                    As to the Tories, Old Etonian Posh Boys and right of the right wing "Devil Take the Hindmost" free marketeers.

                    (There did once use to be another alternative- Liberal-Democrats or something but they imploded years ago) So what options do I have?

                    I'll take my chances with Europe given that choice?

                    1. codejunky Silver badge

                      Re: Good terms?

                      @ Terry 6

                      "(There did once use to be another alternative- Liberal-Democrats or something but they imploded years ago) So what options do I have?

                      I'll take my chances with Europe given that choice?"

                      Thats an amazing impression of defeatism. You dont like the choices available to you right now so you may as well give up the right to choose and have potentially the equivalence of these people or worse imposed upon you. But not only are you happy not to have a choice but you want everyone else to suffer an imposed leader we dont want (we dont get to choose the EU leaders) so we can all be just as miserable?

                      Labour are having an interesting time of extreme lefties joining the party (they may see it as a good thing you and I may not) but that is right now. Corbyn could be ousted or may leave, he doesnt really have popularity· The last election showed a huge breakthrough for UKIP who were barely visible before and suddenly more popular than the greens and I think even the libs if I remember right. If we dont like our electoral system we can vote for people willing to change it and if it is popular we will. But if we surrender our freedom because its too difficult, what right do we have to freedom or choice if all we want to do is give it up?

          2. William 3 Bronze badge

            "We Voted"

            Who voted Terry? No-one under 45 voted lad.

            1. Wensleydale Cheese
              Stop

              "We voted"

              "No-one under 45 voted lad."

              The EC Referendum was on 5 June 1975.

              The minimum age of anyone eligible to vote was 18.

              Therefore only those born on or before 5 June 1957 were allowed to vote.

              I make it "No one under 59 voted."

            2. Terry 6 Silver badge

              True, no one under 58/9 ish voted (I missed by a few months). But as a population we did vote.

              And btw the biggest Brexit supporting group is also in that age range, apparently.

              We are not really voting on the benefits or otherwise of the EU.

              We're voting on a combination of "Little England"/avoiding regulations that some businesses and the press demonise and call "red tape" because they are there to protect ordinary folk/ generally not liking anyone too foreign/ Nostalgia for "The Good Old Days".

              The emotional appeal of Brexit is largely trying to retreat to a simpler world that never really existed even then. The world where the sun always shone- even on bank holidays, we won football matches and petrol came in gallons not litres.

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                @ Terry 6

                "We're voting on a combination of "Little England"/avoiding regulations that some businesses and the press demonise and call "red tape" because they are there to protect ordinary folk/ generally not liking anyone too foreign/ Nostalgia for "The Good Old Days"."

                That might be your reason to vote and if it is I can see why you want to remain. The arguments I have heard are generally about not willingly allowing this country to be dragged down by a club that is perpetually in crisis- economy, employment, immigration, trade, political, etc. The arguments I hear are about protecting us from the contagion of various crisis often brought on by the EU and Eurozone itself.

                As for emotional appeal it is the remain campaign talking about WW3, economic incompetence (another recession), incompetent global governance (unable to handle world wide trade or add up) and general fire and brimstone while putting off unfavourable EU impositions until the vote is over. The remain campaign seem to fear the world (talking of the campaign not necessarily the supporters), seem to fear running a country and seem to fear the democratic vote. If they cant handle it maybe we need to vote in a new gov.

    6. Scroticus Canis
      Windows

      Re: Champagne Cider - what about Babycham?

      The real sophistoes used to drink Babycham, "the original champagne perry" not its poor cousin "cider", but that's apples and pears for you.

      There must be other old-fart commentards who remember it. Well unless they are down the Darby and Joan Club wearing a name tag so that they and others know who they are.

      We still don't have an old-fart icon, why not?

      1. John H Woods

        Re: Champagne Cider - what about Babycham?

        "There must be other old-fart commentards who remember it." -- Scroticus Canis

        HEY! I'll have a Babycham!

      2. x 7

        Re: Champagne Cider - what about Babycham?

        many years ago, I was enjoying a series of pints in a pub in Ludlow, only to be entertained by the antics of an over-the-top American tourist couple. Typical yank OAP tourists - pastel coloured golf sweater, pastel socks, white baggy tapered trousers, very loud complaining voices. Nothing was good enough: the meal service was too slow, they couldn't understand the language (do you guys speak English here in Ludlow??), they tried to claim every meal the waitress brought from the kitchen because they didn't know what they'd ordered. Eventually they got the wrong meal and couldn't understand what cumberland sausage was......it seems they'd actually ordered steaks. By this time my brother and I were having fits of the giggles, but what finally made us both dissolve into hysterical laughter was this, delivered at loud volume for the whole pub to hear:

        "Hey this here Baby champagne isn't anywhere as good as the real champagne we make back home in California. "

        As to what happened to Babycham.......Brother's Cider is run by the Showering family and I believe uses very much the same processing techniques. Its a mainly pear-based cider with added flavouring and is very much the descendant of Babycham, even if made by a different company. Its the same family behind it.

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Champagne Cider - what about Babycham?

        "There must be other old-fart commentards who remember it."

        And Cherry B!!

      4. Vic

        Re: Champagne Cider - what about Babycham?

        There must be other old-fart commentards who remember it

        I certainly remember Babycham - but I don't remember it being "sophistoes" drinking it...

        Vic.

        1. x 7

          Re: Champagne Cider - what about Babycham?

          the problem with Babycham was the number of women who used it as a mixer and drank "brandy and babycham". It could get bloody expensive. I had a girlfriend once who would knock back two or three Brandy & Babychams for every pint I drank. After a couple of expensive dates she got told to piss off back to her husband, as he had more money than me.

          1. Scroticus Canis
            Happy

            Re: Champagne Cider - what about Babycham? @x7 & vic

            x 7 - yep , but it was a good "château leg opener".

            vic - it's sarcasm mate. About as sophisticated as a port and blackcurrant cordial.

  2. TeeCee Gold badge
    Facepalm

    Swings and Roundabouts.

    Of course, were it not for the EU they'd be allowed to prominently stamp "Made in Cornwall" on the packaging of real Cornish pasties. Before anyone says anything here, stamping such on something that came from elsewhere would fall foul of a variety of legislation that's been around since forever.

    The EU does not allow origin discrimination of that nature on goods, hence the need for the "protected origin" scheme and the roomfuls of bureaucrats to administer it.

    Or in other words, this is a typical EU bureaucratic solution to a problem entirely caused by, er, EU bureaucracy.

    1. graeme leggett

      Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

      Yes, this sort of regulation is what holds us back from producing the nation's entire requirements for meat products (Cornish Pasties, Scotch Pies, Melton Mowbray Pork Pies) in one single hyper-efficient completely automated combination slaughterhouse and pastry smelter somewhere near Slough thereby delivering much needed skilled programming jobs to the South East region and shorter transit times for busy directors between their portfolios of fully renumerated pay postitions in the City.

      1. lawndart

        Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

        "one single hyper-efficient completely automated combination slaughterhouse and pastry smelter".

        I've built quite a few of these in Minecraft

      2. DrXym Silver badge

        Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

        "Yes, this sort of regulation is what holds us back from producing the nation's entire requirements for meat products"

        It's more to stop producers, stores or restaurants flogging stuff as Stilton cheese, or Parma ham when actually it came from somewhere in Bulgaria and bears no relation to the thing its trying to pass itself off as.

        It doesn't stop Bulgarian cheese or ham being sold but its sold on its merits rather than riding the coattails of someone elses. And if in time it gains a reputation for quality it can register for protection too.

        1. Seajay#

          Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

          "It's more to stop producers, stores or restaurants flogging stuff as Stilton cheese, or Parma ham when actually it came from somewhere in Bulgaria and bears no relation to the thing its trying to pass itself off as."

          The trouble is it doesn't actually provide any guarantee of quality whatsoever. So long as they set it up in Cornwall, Bulgarians are perfectly free to set up a low-quality pastry forge, staffed entirely by Bulgarians who have never seen a real pasty and call the output genuine Cornish pasties.

          It's got nothing to do with helping consumers and everything to do with the EU's (and all governments' to be fair) favourite sport of protecting vocal, special-interest groups especially in agriculture.

          1. graeme leggett

            Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

            "Pastry forge"

            I can visualise them now - as they slave at the steam powered drop hammers putting the crimp in the pastry edge.

      3. GitMeMyShootinIrons

        Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

        "one single hyper-efficient completely automated combination slaughterhouse and pastry smelter somewhere near Slough "

        I've been to that Greggs too!

    2. Tom Wood

      Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

      "The EU does not allow origin discrimination of that nature on goods, hence the need for the "protected origin" scheme and the roomfuls of bureaucrats to administer it."

      [citation needed]

      1. wikkity

        Re: [citation needed]

        Have I strayed onto wikipedia here? Can't see a begging banner.

        1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          Re: [citation needed]

          I think it is what the young things call a meme. A loose translation is "Bollocks!". If you stay awhile on this here interweb thing, you'll find it crops up quite a lot.

    3. Julian Bradfield

      Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

      This sounds like a Euromyth, since lots of things I buy say where they were made, laid or grown.

      Oh look, it dates back to a tabloid euromyth in 2004 !!

      http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/made-in-britain-labels-to-be-axed/

      1. FlossyThePig
        Holmes

        Re: Swings and Roundabouts (EUromyths).

        How many of these myths can be traced back to Boris (I've invented more EUromyths than you've eaten bars of vegelate*) Johnson

        * "Yeah that was mine, when I was working for the Torygraph in Brussels" said BJ

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

        Hmmm, a link through to a EU website, definitely a trustworthy source! And reading the target, the headlines were based on an EU consultation paper, i.e. it was something they were considering doing, though I'm sure the tabloids will have not made that entirely clear...

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

      A quick survey of my pantry shows ~50% of boxes showing a country of origin. In fact it appears that far from banning it, it's actually compulsory for at least meat and milk products. As far as I can tell nothing from Europe banned stamping 'Made in Cornwall' on anything, provided it was made in Cornwall.

      But don't let making crap up interfere with bashing the EU.

      http://ec.europa.eu/food/safety/labelling_nutrition/labelling_legislation/index_en.htm

      1. Bloakey1

        Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

        "A quick survey of my panties shows ~50% of boxes showing a country of origin."

        <snip>

        Hi, I fixed that one for you and may I say I admire your honesty [1].

        1. Did not correct country as I feared I might be accused of perturbation.

        1. x 7

          Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

          ?????

          Shouldn't that read, "A quick survey of my panties shows ~50% of boxers showing a country of origin."

        2. dorsetknob
          Paris Hilton

          Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

          Yeh your panties might show a cuntry of Origin but your fall foul of the law when you sell them " USED AND WORN " by

          lushes Cindy, Randy Mandy, Peek a boo Jane, Hot hana, and all those other name you sell under

          Paris because you also probably sell on her barely used undies ( does she even wear any )

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

      The "Made in..." labels are currently entirely voluntary within the UK if the product originates from inside the EU. Many products are sold as Made in England, Made in Scotland, Made in Britain, or Made in the EU depending on the market the seller is trying to reach. British lamb sells better in France if labelled "Product of the EU" rather than "British Lamb".

      However the BCE and horsemeat scandals have combined to ensure that the legislation is likely to change (if it hasn't already) to legally require the source of the meat used, so in future your steak pie might say "Made in England with Argentinian beef" or whatever, or it might simply have Beef (Argentinian) in the list of ingredients.

      A similar law has been proposed to stop the final assembly being treated as the point of origin. SHirts made (for example) in Vietnam can currently be sent to Britain requiring only the buttons to be added. If the buttons are added in Britain the seller is legally allowed to advertise their product as "British Made". The countries most likely to veto this proposal are Germany and, unsurprisingly, the UK.

      1. x 7

        Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

        " British lamb sells better in France if labelled "Product of the EU" rather than "British Lamb""

        British lamb slaughtered in France sells better as, and is legally marketed as "French Lamb" (or whatever the French call baby moutons)

    6. David Haworth 1

      Re: Swings and Roundabouts.

      @TeeCee Can you explain why the fresh-ish fruit and veg I buy in Aldi always has the country of origin on the label?

      Perhaps it's a case of over-zealous interpretation of EU directives by British politicians and civil servants.

      Or maybe it's another case of "the EU made me do it" to divert the blame for unpopular laws.

      (I live in Germany, by the way)

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Heathens!!

    That looks suspiciously like a Ginsters "pasty".

    It might be a pasty and it might be made in Cornwall, but a Cornish Pasty it is not!!!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Heathens!!

      nooooo fecking way that is a Gangsters pasty, too much meat in it for a start!

      1. VinceH Silver badge

        Re: Heathens!!

        A proper Cornish pasty is sealed along the top, not around one side. The ones I've bought in Cornwall1 always have been, anyway.

        That aside, I think there's only one real solution to this dilema:

        - If the result of the referendum is a vote to leave, Cornwall should declare independence, become a nation state in its own right, then join the EU.

        - And to cover all angles and protect itself in future, Cornwall should declare independence, become a nation state in its own right, then join the EU.

        1. Which reminds me that I haven't taken a break down that way for a couple of years. Must do so soon.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Heathens!!

          you sort of have a point there me ansum. To get the PGI the oggie must be a "D" shape, with crimping along the curve, so if you make it with a top crimp (like my mother used to do) you couldn't call it a Cornish Pasty, which as we say down here is total bolloxs

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: Heathens!!

            Seen loads crimped along the top.

            And they were a lot better than Ginsters.

            Home made by Cornish born women.

            1. x 7

              Re: Heathens!!

              "Seen loads crimped along the top."

              If its crimped on the top it is NOT a Pasty. It is a completely different product, properly known as a Tiddyoggy. Because of the shape, Tiddyoggys weren't as strong and couldn't be dropped down mineshafts without breaking. The point of a pasty was that it was strong enough to survive the drop

              1. VinceH Silver badge
                Joke

                Re: Heathens!!

                Well colour me surprised. I had no idea the real thing is crimed around the side and not the top - so I've been buying and eating (and very much enjoying) fake Cornish pasties... in Cornwall.

                The place is obviously filled with treacherous imposters. There is only one solution - we should separate it from the rest of this great country, and force it to become an independent nation state. If it wants to, it can apply to join the EU in its own right.

                1. x 7

                  Re: Heathens!!

                  there are two other things that are "wrong" about modern cornish pasties, besides the crimping

                  1) a cornish pasty should not contain potato. Makes the mix too mushy. And potatoes are better used in other ways to eke out a meal. Only veggies in a pasty should be swede/turnip/carrot/mangels.

                  2) whatever the recipe books say, the meat was unlikely to be beef. Only rich people ate beef. Poor people ate pasties, and the only meat available to poor people was the remains of old knackered sheep, or maybe the occasional goat. Not lamb,but old rank mutton. The alternative would be rabbit, or whatever could be poached. But in the main it would be old, chewy sheep meat.

                  You have to remember - a pasty wasn't a delicacy. It was a working mans essential midday meal. A poor mans meal, made as cheaply as possible. Poor people didn't eat beef. The closest they might get would be a stuffed ox heart at christmas.

                  1. Dr.Flay

                    Re: Heathens!!

                    Muppet.

                    We grow "Mangolds" for cattle fodder, not people.

                    Try some and you'll see why humans don't eat it.

                    If your taities are too mushy, they are cut too small

                    1. x 7

                      Re: Heathens!!

                      Mangels / Mangolds (both names are correct) are quite edible if chopped small (or mashed) and cooked for a long enough time. Believe me - I ate enough of it as a kid. Like many of the other families in the village, we survived partly on what we could pinch from the local farmers fields. About the only non-grain crop that didn't get pinched was fodder maize - which was tough enough to break your teeth on, even cooked. You can also boil the tops of mangels, just like spinach. If the Cornish miners could lay their hands on mangels, they would have eaten them. Certainly not by choice, but poor manual workers had no choice - they survived on what was available, and one stolen mangel can go a long way

                      As to the use of mangels - they were popularised more for sheep than cattle, though for sheep they had to be chopped in a beet chipper to be small enough to eat. Sheep have no top incisors so can't bite large beets. Chipping mangels was a daily job in winter for my grandfather, greatgrandfather, and great great grandfather (and a few other relatives, several of whom are named in Llewelyn Powys's essays).

                      As for potatoes, they were too important in their own right as a primary food to be wasted in pasties when other root crops were available. I guess some leftovers might get reused inside a pastry case, but as a rule pasties shouldn't contain spuds.

              2. dorsetknob
                Pirate

                Re: Heathens!!

                Proper Tin miner's Pasties or Tiddyoggy's are not made any more

                They were never Dropped down Mine Shafts. they were carried down and to the Mine face by PIT workers

                They were the Main meal of the Miner

                The crimp was NEVER EATEN BY Miners as this was what they held the food to eat with unwashed hands. Then Discarded why

                Hands that were contaminated with mine waste ( lead tin Arsenic and other nasties Difficult to wash your hands at the mine face )

                A Proper Pasty had meat and veg at one end and the other end had home made jam or fruit preserve

                So you had the main meal and pudding all in one

                Icon for the Perils of Mining They were Brave Lads

        2. Martin an gof Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Heathens!!

          - If the result of the referendum is a vote to leave, Cornwall should declare independence, become a nation state in its own right, then join the EU.

          Which made me think.

          Accepted wisdom is that Scotland, Wales and certain areas of England (parts of The North, the South West) are generally more pro-EU than the rest of England, yet the bulk of the UK population lives in the South East. An "exit the EU" outcome has been suggested as a possible trigger for a further Scottish "exit the UK" vote.

          Why don't we Britons / Celts (don't lecture me on the history, I'm using them as shorthand for Cornwall, Wales, Cumbria, Scotland, Northern Ireland, peripherally the IoM) just club together and vote to leave the UK at the same time, forming some kind of commonwealth-of-ex-UK-nations and rejoining the EU? Much more sustainable than going it completely alone?

          M.

          Disclosure: my ancestors on one side are Cornish (though probably not him as there's no evidence he ever had children) and on the other side are Welsh. I have lived in Wales for about 95% of my life so far.

          1. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: Heathens!!

            "Why don't we Britons / Celts "

            Britons/Picts would support this proposal.

            1. x 7

              Re: Heathens!!

              no, we don't want the Picts. Too many gingers..........

            2. Sweep

              Re: Heathens!!

              The Picts were Celts too.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Heathens!!

            @Martin an gof

            Yet, everywhere you go in both Devon and Cornwall there are Vote Leave posters. I didn't see one Vote Remain.

        3. Dr.Flay

          Re: Heathens!!

          So wrong me ansome. You been stitched up.

          A Devon pasty has the crimp over the top and you eat it on a plate.

          A Cornish pasty has a crimp round the side you can use to hold it without getting yer mucky hands on the bit you eat.

        4. Cpt Blue Bear

          Re: Heathens!!

          "A proper Cornish pasty is sealed along the top, not around one side. The ones I've bought in Cornwall1 always have been, anyway."

          Indeed all those I have been sold as such in Australia, Portugal and some no-where town in the Rocky Mountains were made thus. Ironically the only place I have been offered to side-sealed forgery masquerading as the real thing was in England.

          1. x 7

            Re: Heathens!!

            "A proper Cornish pasty is sealed along the top, not around one side. The ones I've bought in Cornwall1 always have been, anyway."

            thats wrong. A Cornish pasty is crimped at the side so you have something to hold. Thats already been stated numerous times in this thread

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Heathens!!

      Ginsters is the perfect example of why this origin protection legislation is pointless.

      If I want a Cornish Pasty, I want a Cornish Pasty (generally beef skirt in flaky pastry). I don't want rat shit wrapped in sloppy pastry, but Ginsters are allowed to call it a Cornish Pasty because of where it was concocted.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Heathens!!

        yes but technically it is a Cornish Pasty as its a Pasty made in Kernow. Callington to be precise next to Tesco's!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Heathens!!

        if you want to know more about the Pasty take a look at Kernow Kings Pasty Diet

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbR4tgx8w7s

      3. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Heathens!!

        A few things

        Pasty Crimping

        It really depends who is doing it, Can be along the top or the side, but more concerned for the pastry than over the way it is crimped.

        Different people do it different ways, depends who they learnt from.

        My mum did them along top and offset. Just get the ingredients correct.

        Ginsters

        Now a quandary, yes they are a Cornish pasty, yes they are not that good, but a huge BUT.

        They are better than the rubbish produced by many other producers around the UK, much much better. Wrong pastries, wrong meats, added carrots, really cheap ingredients. When you get guff like this even a Ginsters pasty is nice.

        So the best way to describe a Ginsters pasty is OK, BTW their steak slices are pretty gruesome!

        I find Rowes are pretty good, some of the small bakery ones can quite variable in quality, one day very good the next unedible. Have had this with a producer in the Lizzard.

        I still regret the passing of the Falmouth Pasty Co chain as theirs were good, and available up here!

        But if you are on holiday and find a good supplier, remember them for future use.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Heathens!!

          yep as commercial Pasties go Rowes is probably the best (a part from the ones your mother makes) Well pissed off when Rowes shut their shop in Plymouth City centre

          1. Rol Silver badge

            Re: Heathens!!

            It was my pleasure many years ago to be working for a large butchers in Newquay, where I had the dubious title of "Dice Monkey".

            For a while, every pasty of note consumed in Cornwall, contained my meat, err, I mean, meat I had handled, err, beef skirt that had been frozen, band sawn into six inch lengths and then forced through a dicer.

            I also did all the mincing, err, I mean, I took several hundred kilos of skirt and reduced it to mince.

            I forget the names of all the bakeries we supplied, but knowing my meat was inside them gave me a warm satisfying feeling. Err, I give up, where's my coat? The one with boxing gloves tied on with a piece of elastic.

            1. Triggerfish

              Re: Heathens!!

              I never think of it being a proper Cornish pasty unless it weighs something like a small brick, damn those ones are a proper meal. Also squirrel pasty, they were doing them near a friend of mine down that way suprisingly good.

        2. Vinyl-Junkie
          Happy

          Re: Heathens!!

          Eden project pasties are excellent!

          1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

            Re: Heathens!!

            Eden project pasties are excellent!

            There are (at least) two suppliers to the Eden project, the better pasties come from here: http://www.cornishpremierpasties.co.uk/. The Eden project has rather more exacting desires for local and organic produce than most other pastie pushers in Cornwall.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Heathens!!

      Shouldn't a genuine Cornish pasty contain baked-beans?

    4. Mark 85 Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Heathens!!

      Hmm...I thought this was the El Reg comments section. I seemed to have walked in to a college level food fight. I guess the only thing to do is have a beer and watch the flying pastries.

      1. x 7

        Re: Heathens!!

        or go to a strip club, have a beer and watch the flying pasties. And tassels.

  4. Terry 6 Silver badge

    Sarcasm

    The heavily sarcastic article here attempts to belittle and undermine the idea of protected status for regional foods.

    In reality, without it so many of our local speciality items would become generic, mass market shelf fillers.

    Part of this belittling is to play down the example of Cheddar cheese - which has been reduced to the mousetrap filler that takes up half the shelf space in any cheese section with its multiple versions of largely indistinguishable - except by marketing brand names- generic Cheddar,

    But the Brexit argument against Europe's "red tape" has been very careful to avoid being specific about which rules to dodge. Protected status for regional foods is probably pretty popular and the Cornish drawing attention to it can't be welcomed by many Brexiterees.

    All those annoying bureaucratic regulations that are only there to maintain safety standards, food quality, fair working conditions and the like should surely be swept away.

    1. Dan Wilkie

      Re: Sarcasm

      I'll be honest, the thought that somebody in Romania could start churning out Cornish Pasties isn't one of the overriding arguments I'm struggling with whilst trying to decide whether to vote leave or remain (and FYI, still undecided, six of one and half a dozen of the other).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        WTF?

        Re: Sarcasm

        " the thought that somebody in Romania could start churning out Cornish Pasties isn't one of the overriding arguments I'm struggling with"

        Is that because you don't happen to be one of the thousands of people employed in Cornwall who would be affected?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Sarcasm

          no because he's one of the thousands of Eastern Europeans who come over to Cornwall to pick the ingredients for the oggies because the locals are too fecking idle to do it themselves and would rather go to the local dole office in "INSERT CORNISH DOLE OFFICE OF CHOICE HERE". And then complain about the bleedy foreigners taking our jobs (the ones we won't do as we left Camborne Comp with a GCSE in textile technology after 5 years of pissing around and so are holding out for that top job rather than manual labour that we're only qualified to do.)

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: Sarcasm

            OI

            I have relations growing pasty components, Cornish beef to be precise

            1. Bloakey1

              Re: Sarcasm

              "OI

              I have relations growing pasty components, Cornish beef to be precise"

              You have relations with Cornish Beef? My God, I thought the Welsh were bad with their sheep but that really takes the biscuit or perhaps the pasty.

            2. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Paul Shirley

        Re: Sarcasm

        Yes, but the thought that some factory in Birmingham could start churning out faux Cornish Pasty's should worry you. Because I don't remember our government lifting a finger to protect any foods before joining the EU.

        1. MJI Silver badge

          Re: Sarcasm

          And a lot of these faux pasties were disgusting, making Ginsters seem like a work of culinary genious

        2. Dave 15

          Re: Sarcasm

          Thing is that they can churn out pasties in Brum...and most people wouldn't care to notice that it was a pasty not a Cornish pasty...

          then of course there is this...

          http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/North-Devon-baker-beats-Cornish-game/story-11691620-detail/story.html

          Yup, North Devon baker won a prize for the best Cornish pasty

      3. David Harper 1

        Re: Sarcasm

        "the thought that somebody in Romania could start churning out Cornish Pasties isn't one of the overriding arguments I'm struggling with"

        I seem to recall that Romania was one of the countries implicated in the horse-meat scandal back in 2013. I can see the marketing slogan already: "Fred Ceaucescu's Genuine Cornish Pasties -- First Past The Post!"

        1. Bloakey1

          Re: Sarcasm

          <snip>

          "I seem to recall that Romania was one of the countries implicated in the horse-meat scandal back in 2013. I can see the marketing slogan already: "Fred Ceaucescu's Genuine Cornish Pasties -- First Past The Post!""

          Romania used to sell a lot of it's excess equine meat to Italy and countries that eat horse. The EU brought out a law banning the import of live horses in an attempt to stop the spread of Equine Infectious Anaemia, known in argot as Swamp Fever. Then Romanians started to export meat only and not live animals so that they could get round this. So from having an identifiable products fo a horsy mien, they went to flogging a product of a meaty mean that could be made to look like anything if dressed right.

          A lot of this meat was exported to the Spanghero meat processing plant in Castelnaudary [1] in France where it was treated and sold on to the UK for use in processed meals.

          There was also an issue with the law regarding horses on roads changing there and so a lot of horses and donkeys became obsolete and an unnecessary burden over night because they could not use the roads.

          Now to come back on topic a bit. Castelnaudary is the home of Cassoulet, indeed it is the Father, Cassoulet from Carcasonne is the Son and Cassoulet from Toulouse is the Holy Ghost. Cassoulet that ambrosia of the Gods is protected I believe but I still knok it up in my kitchen in the hills of a Southern European country.

          1. I did my Basic training in the Foreign Legion here and I can still remember with fear and trepidation the 15 kilometer runs along the Canal du Midi, you could see where you were going and it really messed with the psyche.

          1. x 7

            Re: Sarcasm

            ""I seem to recall that Romania was one of the countries implicated in the horse-meat scandal"

            Now that the market for Romanian horsemeat has declined, I'm sure there's been an increase in the number of Romanian working girls in the UK. A lot of the current crop looks like horses.

      4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Sarcasm

        "I'll be honest, the thought that somebody in Romania could start churning out Cornish Pasties isn't one of the overriding arguments I'm struggling with"

        Same here. I keep seeing lots of reasons to leave the EU but I've yet to hear one with enough power to overcome the primary reason for staying. It's only the EU keeping our various Home Secretaries and their spying fetishes in check and protecting us from our own government.

      5. John H Woods

        Re: Sarcasm

        "... still undecided, six of one and half a dozen of the other)

        Until decided, perhaps the less irreversible decision might be best? I've always thought it was up to the proposers of change to make the case.

      6. Dr.Flay

        Re: Sarcasm

        Don't worry about it my 'ansome.

        Rowes pasties are almost exclusively made by Polish people in Cornwall.

    2. streaky Silver badge

      Re: Sarcasm

      The heavily sarcastic article here attempts to belittle and undermine the idea of protected status for regional foods

      The number of British foods of equal or greater standing the EU *refuses* to protect there's no wonder people belittle it. Also It offers almost no protection of merit anyway, all one has to do is stamp the word "style" on one's product and there's nothing that can be done and it makes a mockery of the entire system; and that's *inside* the common market - outside of it there's not even that "value".

      And worse of all it's nothing but an advertisement for the kind of silliness the single market breeds: protectionism and uncompetitiveness. These products should be made to compete on quality not assumed quality a pointless label provides.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Sarcasm

      Perhaps any Bulgarian Cornish pasties could be turned away at the border?

      If the UK had enough customs officers of course. I suppose it's a sector that will be on the rise if there is a Brexit.

      1. Bloakey1

        Re: Sarcasm

        "Perhaps any Bulgarian Cornish pasties could be turned away at the border?"

        <snip>

        What if James Onedin started shipping them in on that there tea clipper and bypassed the two customs inspectors that would be drinking in the local Inn and trying to find out about Hidden passageways made up of old pasty mines.

        My God, these pasties would be salty and soggy by the time they got to us and would probably be crushed by all that silk and brandy that they were sailing with.

        I know what we could do. Select a band of good men, Algy, Josh and Ginger. They could get down there to the headland and sink those ships full of pasties by flashing lights disguised as light houses.

        On second thoughts the lights would probably bring in rubber dinghies full of Johnny foreigner. Indeed there are fousaaaaahnnnnds <sic>of them out there. Coming over here to take your jobs, shag your women and rink your beer.

        1. Lester Haines (Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

          "fousaaaaahnnnnds"

          FYI, the official spelling here at El Reg is "faaaaasands" - and the obligatory suffix is rendered "of 'em".

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Sarcasm

          "Select a band of good men, Algy, Josh and Ginger. "

          An interesting set of names. The "Josh" seems the odd one out - was expecting a "Bertie".

          1. Antron Argaiv Silver badge

            Re: Sarcasm

            Bertie was the posh one, no?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Sarcasm

              "Bertie was the posh one, no?"

              Correct - Lord Bertram Augustus Lissie.

        3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Sarcasm

          "rink your beer."

          OMG Nooooooooo! There's nothing than rinked beer!!

      2. Tom 7 Silver badge

        Re: Sarcasm

        I live on the Devon/Cornwall border. Lots and lots of Brexit posters - surprisingly mostly on farm gates and fences. Where they employ gang labour from europe and other sources.

        I take my animals for slaughter and the vet who examines them is Spanish, the one before was Polish. I get the impression if Brexit goes ahead we will be in trouble round here cos most of the non-foreign incomers round here are exports from the social security systems of UK cities and aren't really up to a day of cattle wrestling.

        I can understand the anger that drive some people to have a go at immigration but that anger will still be here when the immigrants have gone and were swimming in Elderflower Champagne and the fields are full of rotting roses and I'm pretty sure it will be pointing at any one who mentions it possibly being a mistake,

  5. Old Tom
    Pint

    Newcastle Brown

    Scottish & Newcastle got protected status for the term Newcastle Brown saying it had to be brewed in Newcastle. Then they decided to close the brewery and brew it elsewhere, so they got it revoked.

    1. WraithCadmus

      Re: Newcastle Brown

      Yes, jokes were made at the time about 'Taddy Broon'.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Newcastle Brown

        Not quite. They voluntarily dropped the protected origin status when they moved ower the watter to Gateshead. It was later that brewing newki broon moved to Taddy.

  6. Christoph Silver badge

    And the Oggie man's no more

    1. HelenaH

      Hello - thank you for bringing this up

  7. lawndart

    says:

    Is there some EU legally-defined "clutching straw" that is being grasped at here?

  8. Lusty

    Brexit

    What we need is a system whereby we could elect representatives who can investigate and make these complex decisions on our behalf. The only thing I find more worrying than me making this decision is the thought of millions of other people who don't know anything about the subject either making the decision!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Brexit

      the thing I find more worrying than all those millions of people making that decision is some specific individuals deciding on our behalf that we are not smart enough to make such decisions.

      1. Lusty

        Re: Brexit

        Specific individuals who have teams of advisers and who were elected by a majority of us to make exactly this kind of decision on our behalf?

        It's not that we're not smart enough, it's that most people are not informed enough and certainly don't have the background in international politics to make a good decision. Let's say 100,000 people actually do understand the subjects involved, and let's face it there are a lot of subjects involved here. Let's further assume that these 100k people actually have the desire, motivation, and time to properly research the specific subject of UK leaving EU. That still leaves over 45 million voters who are not in a position to make an informed decision who will drown out those who actually did the research.

        The reality most people will vote based on a gut instinct which will be based on fear and uncertainly or on something they read in the paper which outraged them.

        No, it's not the fact that people are too stupid that bothers me, it's the fact that one of the most important decisions this country has faced in recent times won't be made by experts but will be an x-factor style vote by the masses.

        1. Lester Haines (Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

          "x-factor style vote"

          But surely that's the way they should do it, with a televised Brexitathon in a Eurovision stylee? "Hello Essex. Can you please give us your votes?" "Hello London. Yes: Traditional values, Winston Churchill, long shadows over cricket grounds, warm beer, 12 points. Slovakian fruit pickers, nul points."

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: "x-factor style vote"

            The really big and burning question is what happens to the El Reg SPG Spanish Division if there's a Brexit?

            This might be the one crucial item which sways me.

        2. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

          Re: Brexit

          What I find particularly amusing is the sovereignty argument that aims to put complete power in the hands of a government which is voted into power with more against them than for. I find it quite ironic when Leave complain about how undemocratic the EU is.

          The EU is by no means perfect, but it has done more that I approve of and less of what I disagree with than our own elected governments ever have.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Brexit

            "What I find particularly amusing..."

            What's even more amusing is the vast number of people who have been hoodwinked into believing this referendum will actually change anything.

            It's like having a civil war where the outcome is the same regardless of who wins.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Brexit

          "No, it's not the fact that people are too stupid that bothers me, it's the fact that one of the most important decisions this country has faced in recent times won't be made by experts but will be an x-factor style vote by the masses."

          Should we ditch all elections and let people who are informed make the decisions?

          1. Rol Silver badge

            Re: Brexit

            So, like, a test, that covers personality, knowledge and intelligence, perhaps on the reverse of the voting slip?

            or do you mean moving the people of a certain demographic into housing developments in your constituency, in short, gerrymandering, which is effectively how it's done already.

            Considering how housing projects tend to offer up only a tiny percentage for social housing, is it any wonder those areas are often the ones demanding more tax cuts and tramp burning.

      2. Rol Silver badge

        Re: Brexit

        The thing I find more worrying, is the usual suspects in Westminster, making decisions on my behalf, no longer having to worry about a higher authority challenging their draconian, back to Victorian values, rape the citizenry, fuck the poor, barbarism.

        What is also worrying is that it is estimated that there are only 500,000 lampposts in London, which means some of the 1% will eventually have to be processed in another county,

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Brexit

          Rol, you clearly didn't vote for the "usual suspects" but the majority did. Sadly that's the best system we have and you'll need to accept that the country doesn't agree with you or move out.

          1. Rol Silver badge

            Re: Brexit

            Neither I, or the throngs of voters, voted for the anonymous cowards who skulk in the background sniping at society with impunity.

            The country is run by, and for the benefit of, those who chose to keep their profile as small as their tax returns.

  9. psychonaut

    hand Cheddaring

    <smirk>

    its a EUphemism

    1. HelenaH

      Re: hand Cheddaring

      Hello hand Cheddaring - EUphemism - is that ' a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.' I don't underestand - please expand.

      1. psychonaut

        Re: hand Cheddaring

        <finbar saunders>

        You'd like to see me hand cheddaring and expanding??

        </finbar saunders>

        i think i like you already

  10. Seajay#

    Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

    I find I'm on the same side as these rent-seeking, bureaucracy-loving chumps. It's almost enough to make you say "sod the economy, I'm voting out."

    1. H in The Hague

      Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

      I'm not that familiar with food-labelling regs. But as far as I'm aware the geographic origin schemes are proposed by the producers in a geographic area. The EU then decides if they want to adopt the scheme. So no that much to do with bureaucrats, more with food producers in a particular region who thinks their products are unique and deserve protection. I.e. a bottom-up rather than top-down approach.

      As for "rent-seeking, bureaucracy-loving chumps" it was actually our window (things you look through, not an operating system) cleaner here in sunny Bournemouth who commented "the main people to benefit from a Brexit will be the international trade agreement lawyers, it's going to keep them in work for 10 years". :)

      1. Seajay#

        Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

        Of course it's bottom up, of course the producers in that area want protection. It's good for them because it gives them a monopoly. What's bad is that we listen to them.

        Imagine 4 pasties.

        1. Premium quality, made with care and attention to the ingredients in Cornwall.

        2. Meat slurry sprayed in to a second hand purse in Cornwall.

        3. Premium quality, made with care and attention to the ingredients in Hampshire.

        4. Meat slurry sprayed in to a second hand purse in Hampshire.

        Why do we give protection to pasties 1 and 2? If we must give protection to pasties (and I'm not sure why we need to) then wouldn't we want to protect 1 and 3?

        1. Paul Shirley

          Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

          The designation includes quality factors, so in fact we're supposed to end up with only 1 protected. Even with the seemingly low threshold to qualify as a Cornish Pasty there doesn't seem to be a rush of meat slurry packagers moving to Cornwall to take advantage (or Bulgarians setting up factories) and case 2 isn't an issue.

          1. Seajay#

            Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

            Exhibit A Ginsters Original Cornish Pasty

            But more seriously, the pasty that should worry us is pasty 3. If we allowed that to describe itself as a Cornish pasty then we'd have more employment in Hampshire and lower prices and better quality for pasty consumers. But we give that up in order to allow Cornish Cornish pasty makers the chance to make excess profits purely due to blind luck over where they happen to be located.

            1. MJI Silver badge

              Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

              That is an issue, Ginsters is better than 3 but not as good as 1.

              It seems strange defending them, but when you live miles from Cornwall and get the urge, sometimes it is the only way to get a fix.

              Better a Ginsters than a Pork Farms.

              When in Cornwall loads of decent Pasties, would not even look at a Ginsters, let alone eat one.

            2. Rol Silver badge

              Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

              There is nothing stopping Hampshire bakers from calling their efforts Hampshire pasties.

              The other day I wandered into a bakers in Bristol and got offered a Devon pasty, which is similar to a Cornish pasty, but made from ingredients sourced from anywhere you like and made anywhere you like.

              Now, I like Lancashire crumbly cheese, and but for a very select number of quality retailers, all the world knows about Lancashire crumbly cheese, is the seriously, nothing at all like it, muck, that gets churned out of a factory in south east England.

              Is it fair, that a traditional marque of quality, lovingly recreated in its home county can be totally misrepresented on the national stage, ensuring nearly all potential buyers of the real thing will only get the very poor imitation and undoubtedly never try it again?

              1. x 7

                Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

                "Now, I like Lancashire crumbly cheese, and but for a very select number of quality retailers, all the world knows about Lancashire crumbly cheese, is the seriously, nothing at all like it, muck, that gets churned out of a factory in south east England."

                "Lancashire Crumbly Cheese" isn't real Lancashire cheese, It doesn't even use the same manufacturing method. Its a relatively modern industrial cheese (method dates from the 1950's) and most Lancs cheese sellers won't touch it

                What you need are either Creamy Lancashire or Tasty Lancashire. Those are ONLY made in Lancs. There are around ten creameries around Beacon Fell, which produce enough variants of cheese (Lancs, blues, goat, sheep) to probably outnumber the types of cheese made in the rest of the UK

                If you fancy burning off energy, the local tourist board has three walking guides, each dedicated to one of creamy, tasty and crumbly. Spend a weekend in Garstang, explore the country, and eat cheese

        2. streaky Silver badge

          Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

          1. Premium quality, made with care and attention to the ingredients in Cornwall.

          2. Meat slurry sprayed in to a second hand purse in Cornwall.

          3. Premium quality, made with care and attention to the ingredients in Hampshire.

          4. Meat slurry sprayed in to a second hand purse in Hampshire.

          Why do we give protection to pasties 1 and 2? If we must give protection to pasties (and I'm not sure why we need to) then wouldn't we want to protect 1 and 3?

          How about we don't want to protect any of them and they're made to stand on their own two feet in the market place. Not for nothing but the EU rules on this stuff need not apply. In your 3/4 calling something a "Cornish" pasty is okay but saying it was "Made in Cornwall" when it wasn't would be obviously fraudulent. What we need here is consumers to either buy reading glasses or I suspect more likely actually give a toss - if consumers are getting quality anyway they probably won't; they're going to buy whatever is economically justified to them and I'd imagine given the ranges available in supermarkets that probably isn't going to be made in Cornwall anyway. Ginsters regardless though (god help us).

          The outcome of cornish pasty protected status wasn't people bought more pasties from cornwall it was people bought more microwave pizzas from Tesco and more "Cornish-style Pasties" or whatever the supermarkets are calling them. Heck probably even just calling them "pasties" is probably enough to take 90% of the market and that's a generic term nobody is getting protection of.

          Also wow I'm having déjà vu...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

            I'm with you on that. Keep the protection for Oggies made in Cornwall, call everything else a Pasty, job done

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

          instead of the long description you've put for 2 just put Ginsters

        4. John Sturdy

          Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

          Exactly. I don't like protectionism, and try to avoid buying products that I know have such protection.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Just when I think I've firmly decided on Remain

      I think it was a veiled threat. For a not so veil threat see the German finance minister.

      He is only the German finance minister after all... There are 26 others. I'm sure they all have an equal say. Just ask anyone living in one of the PIGS.

      (Which almost brings us back round to the meat in pasties, only it's not pork.)

  11. HelenaH

    Hello - I am from Gloucester - I though a Cornish pasty supplier right on the border with Devon was having problems with his 'appellation'. I think people generally know the difference between a Cornish pasty and an empanada, I don't really understand because I thought we were buying 'Champagne' long before we joined.

    I am sure the Commonwealth can bring in a similar international 'appellation' for things from all over the Commonwealth

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      <elllooo, arrrr. Oi'm frm Glawcstsheee - oi don't kno mush, but oi just came across these ere Reg forums, see....</i>

      FTFY. Don't thank me, it was my pleasure.

      And if all that seems rather rude if you're a (genuine) newcomer, I won't say sorry, but I will advise to run away and save yourself! It's too late for the rest of us.

    2. H in The Hague

      "I am sure the Commonwealth can bring in a similar international 'appellation' for things from all over the Commonwealth"

      So, then you end up with British businesses having to comply with EU regs for exports to/imports from the EU, and Commonwealth regs as well. So two sets of rules. That doesn't really sound like the "bonfire of red tape" promised by the Brexiters, does it? And you would have to hire yet more civil servants to set such a system up and negotiate with the rest of the Commonwealth (incidentally, they all seem to be advising the UK to stay in Europe).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Commonwealth countries are also part of several regional trade groups, including:

        the North American Free Trade Agreement

        Africa, Caribbean and Pacific countries, which have a trade and aid agreement with the EU

        the African Union

        the Association of South East Asian Nations

        the Asia Pacific Economic Co-operation

        the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas

        The EU and the UK have trade agreements with most of these organisations"

        https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/uk-trade-relations-commonwealth

        "

  12. The Jon
    Thumb Up

    Now I'm hungry

    Can I submit this recipe for Pasty and Eggs to the SPB Post Pub Nosh Neckfiller strand?

    Get a day old pasty. Roughly chop it into chunks. Fry in a pan until sizzling. Slide onto a plate. Crack 2 eggs into the pan, fry. Slide onto fried pasty. Eat. Brown sauce optional.

    1. Lester Haines (Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

      Re: Now I'm hungry

      Nice one.

    2. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Now I'm hungry

      No no no

      Drive to Cornwall, find a really good pasty supplier, drive home at speed.

      Sit down, enjoy pasty.

      1. Paul Shirley

        Re: Now I'm hungry

        No no no no

        No need to drive home, pasties are perfect street food. No need to drive home.

        1. MJI Silver badge

          Re: Now I'm hungry

          But then you will have no pasty when you get home.

          Yes last time I went there I smuggled out pasties and Rattler

    3. earl grey Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Now I'm hungry

      Sorry, but it needs bacon.

  13. HelenaH

    Hello - I am from Gloucester - I thought a Cornish Pasty supplier on the border of Devon and Cornwall was told his pasties were not 'appellation' merit worthy. I think that is a bit much. I think people across the world know the difference between an 'empanada' and a 'Cornish pasty'. Actually 'empanadas' came from Cornish pasties. I think if marketing and promotion is good enough - like Scotland has done to the n'th degree across the world - we will be okay.

    1. edge_e
      Trollface

      That's odd given that Cornish pasties actually originated in Devon

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/6144460.stm

    2. Mephistro Silver badge
      Happy

      (@ HelenaH)

      "Actually 'empanadas' came from Cornish pasties"

      Empanadas appear on 'Spanish' recipe books from ~1100 AD or so, both in the Christian and Muslim areas of the Peninsula, so I'd bet good money against bad that empanadas didn't come from Cornish pasties!.

      Related anecdote: ~20 years ago, I was invited to a medieval style banquet organized by a local Gastronomic Society and entirely made with recipes and techniques from the period. It included fourteen courses and three desserts. The running joke was that the banquet was sponsored by the Spanish equivalent of AlkaSeltzer. :-)

      Oh, and said banquet included three kinds of empanadas; fowl, eel and pork, if my memory doesn't fail me.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Seems like an opportunity for a line of "I can't believe its not a Cornish Pasty" products.

  15. Phillip Allen

    'Protected Geographical Indication - PGI: covers agricultural products and foodstuffs closely linked to the geographical area. At least one of the stages of production, processing or preparation takes place in the area.'

    So putting that lovely horsemeat filled, Bulgarian made 'Cornish Pasty' into the box in my brothers shed in St. Austell affords it PGI then...

    *Away to set up a trade deal*

  16. Alistair Silver badge
    Windows

    Over here.

    We have the 'Jamaican Patty'

    Oh lord the sputtering and spitting and bitching.

    Meat, in pastry, sometimes with flavour, sometimes without. Occasionally it has a bit of bite to it.

    Personally its Friday, and I'm thinking Manchurian Beef and Atomic noodles from a Hakka place that covers foods from about 70% of the planet. All of them spicy and thrilling to the palate.

  17. Bloakey1

    What About Cornish Pasties the Non Food Kind?

    Now , I have noted and inwardly digested various comments from Comentards regarding the wonderful Cornish Pasty but I am left confused.

    What would the status be of the articles used to cover lady bits known as Pasties?

    1. Would one made in Cormwall be protected and would its nomenclature be Cornish Pasties?

    2. Are we able to make them anywhere with complete an utter impunity?

    3 they can be comestible apparently although care must be taken along with small bites.

    Now I would grant you your protected name and raise you an 'Appelation Controlée'.

    1. x 7

      Re: What About Cornish Pasties the Non Food Kind?

      "What would the status be of the articles used to cover lady bits known as Pasties?"

      they should be banned!!!!

      FREE THE NIPPLE.!!!!!! PEAK (or is it perk?) WITH IMPUNITY!!!!!

  18. Yugguy

    FFS STOP!!!

    Enough with this "we'd lose XXXX legislation if we left" utter bollocks.

    NO - we can adopt any bloody legislation we want. We can protect Cornish pasties, Wednesleydale cheese and workers rights.

    1. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

      Re: FFS STOP!!!

      Also, I can't imagine cornish pasties being big on the continent, being in mind they eat completely different foods ( paella, horrible sausages, frogs, whole birds, pasta )

      1. Pedigree-Pete

        Re: FFS STOP!!!

        Don't the Bretons have something similar?

    2. H in The Hague

      Re: FFS STOP!!!

      "We can protect Cornish pasties, Wednesleydale cheese and workers rights."

      Excuse me! How likely do you think it is that Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage are going to protect workers' rights?????

      As it is, the UK has opted out of some of the EU workers' protection, so workers' rights here are already (rightly or wrongly, depending on your place on the political spectrum) weaker than in other countries. So that's unlikely to get any better after a Brexit.

      (As I mentioned before, I'm to the right of the political centre, but I do believe in protecting the rights of people such as road sweepers, restaurant workers, assembly operatives, etc. without whom my life would be a lot less comfortable.)

      Though introducing new protections for cheese, etc. as you seem to propose is going to provide some welcome employment for vulnerable groups such as civil servants, lawyers and consultants. To be paid for by the tax payer.

      1. YARR

        How likely do you think it is that Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage are going to protect workers' rights?

        I think you are being over presumptive (even prejudging) other's political stance. Anyway, if we get Brexit, UKIP will no longer have a purpose and Nigel Farage will probably retire from politics.

        Workers rights are complex issue. IMO exploitative schemes like "Zero hours contracts" should not have been allowed except for a limited time to get the economy out of a recession. OTOH, the EU has enforced other "rights" we never wanted such as unnecessarily long paid maternity leave for partners - which are a problem for small and struggling businesses.

        Obviously opinion varies widely on this issue, but if opinion varies across EU "states" then tough - all EU states must implement the same law even if the majority in one "state" don't like it.

        1. graeme leggett

          Think of size of Farage's ego if Brexit was achieved. He'd start on his next peeve but with unstoppable conviction.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. WatAWorld

        Re: FFS STOP!!! and alternate universes

        Which alternate universe do you live in where the EU protects workers rights?

        The EU protects bureaucrats rights, and as many have already learned, if you are not a bureaucrat the only right you have is that of supplication if the EU rules dictate that your job belongs to residents of a more important EU country, like Luxembourg, Monaco, France or Ireland.

    3. dajames Silver badge

      Re: FFS STOP!!!

      NO - we can adopt any bloody legislation we want. We can protect Cornish pasties, Wednesleydale cheese and workers rights.

      We could protect those things in Great Britain, but what power would we have to protect them eslewhere in Europe?

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: FFS STOP!!!

        >We could protect those things in Great Britain, but what power would we have to protect them eslewhere in Europe?

        I assumed that Boris's next plan would be to invade Europe ?

      2. WatAWorld

        our ancestors would have us forsake both UK sovereignty and democracy over fast food naming rights

        That is right James, our ancestors would have us forsake both UK sovereignty and democracy over naming rights for 19th century fast food.

    4. Daniel von Asmuth Bronze badge
      Mushroom

      Re: FFS STOP!!!

      Hear, hear! Remember that Corrnish pasties are protected by Britain's Nuclear Deterrent, while the Pain Saucisse has la Force de Frappe behind it, but Brabantse Worstenbroordjes must wait for Uncle Obama's nuclear umbrella, which is busy serving hot dogs.

      We'll work out to treaty to save our food.

  19. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Childcatcher

    Cocoon

    Oh dear? What will the world do without those bureaucrats specializing in the creation and maintenance of so many legalistic cocoons? The mind boggles at the chaos Brexit will create.......or something.

    I can see the regulations falling away and the beautiful economy emerging avoiding the nets of all those 'career bureaucrats' trying to put it back into its legalistic cocoon.

    1. H in The Hague

      Re: Cocoon

      "I can see the regulations falling away and the beautiful economy emerging avoiding the nets of all those 'career bureaucrats'"

      I'm sorry but UK civil servants and businesses are perfectly capable of drafting unnecessary complex regulations by themselves, Brexit wouldn't improve that at all.

      Example 1: the planning permission documents for my building project in a conservation area in The Hague, NL were much shorter than those for a comparable project in Chichester, West Sussex which also had a list of 25 conditions attached to it, and a human rights assessment. In both countries planning is mainly covered by national legislation, and UK legislation seems to result in much more paperwork.

      Example 2: I've recently been looking at safety reports for building projects in NL. The report for a UK company doing a small project amounted to about 6000 words, that by a German company for a major project amounted to fewer than 2000 words.

      Example 3: the CSCS safety passport system for construction sites (set up by the industry, not by Westminster or Brussels) is much more convoluted than the VCA safety passport system in NL (also used in Germany and Belgium, I think). (I seem to be one of the few folks with both CSCS and VCA safety passports, so I speak from experience.)

      So Brexit by no means guarantees a reduction in regulations. And any UK exporter will still have to comply with EU standards (which are increasingly based on international standards anyway).

      1. Rol Silver badge

        Re: Cocoon

        It is no accident that Britain's national standards for a huge sway of products are at odds with the accepted norms found on the continent.

        It's called protectionism, and not that it protects the public, but more the ability for businesses to charge whatever they like for products that are unique to this country.

        Rip-off Britain has been enshrined in our colloquial standards, and will again serve to stifle competition if we decide to leave.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Cocoon

          "[...] for a huge sway of [...]"

          IIRC the expression is "swathe" not "sway". Meaning a broad strip or area of something.

        2. WatAWorld

          Re: Cocoon

          In a sovereign UK you have the ability to collectively eliminate that protectionism. That you never devoted a few hours to selecting an MP or canvasing for a political position was your choice. You and your peers did not care about protectionism, so you allowed vested interests (workers and business owners of protected UK businesses) to prevail.

          In the EU you are stuck obeying what the bureaucrats tell your parliament you must put up with.

          In the EU no amount of hours on your part, no amount of canvassing by you and your neighbours, will alter the fact that the legislation you must obey will be dictated by bureaucrats working for one of the five unelected EU presidents.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cocoon

        So the crux of your argument is... because Britain currently has less-than-optimal planning regulations that we could elect to change at any time, we should give up the right to govern ourselves and future generations forevermore?

        Sounds like you really comprehend the bigger picture there!

        1. H in The Hague

          Re: Cocoon

          "So the crux of your argument is... because Britain currently has less-than-optimal planning regulations ..."

          Are you being disingenuous or did you not read my whole post (understandable as it's past beer o'clock and we've probably all had a busy week)?

          No, that was just one example of three to support my argument that a lot of bureaucracy in the UK is homegrown, not imposed by the EU. And unique UK rules after Brexit would impose two sets of regulation on some businesses.

          It is because I am interested in the bigger picture that I think Britain is a better and stronger country in rather than outside Europe. And the EU is a much better union with Britain in it rather than outside it. In fact that is much more important to me than any of the economic arguments (I'm reasonably well off, multiskilled and can choose where I want to live so personally I'll probably be OK either way - my concerns are primarily for society as a whole.)

          Anyway, on the whole the UK does govern itself!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Cocoon

            That's the crux of the referendum problem:

            Do you vote for a Vichy regime in Westminster or go for full on National Socialist?

          2. WatAWorld

            the EU is protectionist as it ever gets

            Canada, Chile and China are outside the EU and are not hobbled by protectionist standards.

            What is required to avoid protectionism -- the EU is protectionist as it ever gets these days -- the solution to protectionism is to be living in a democracy where voters will not tolerate protectionism.

      3. Howard Hanek Bronze badge

        Re: Cocoon

        Yes. It was no coincidence that Adam's 'Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' begins with the destruction of the earth by a mindless bureaucracy undertaking a useless project by dim witted Vogans.

        1. Vic

          Re: Cocoon

          'Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' begins with the destruction of the earth by a mindless bureaucracy undertaking a useless project

          ...Except it doesn't.

          Read a little further, and you find out that it's actually a corrupt trade protection lobby that's set up the project to masquerade as useless...

          Vic.

      4. WatAWorld

        Not so in the EU, where parliament is a mere stooge, a whipping boy to shield bureaucrats

        The sad reality is that in the parliamentary that UK was for a few brief decades, if you didn't like government regulations you can remove them by running for parliament or going out and knocking on doors in support of a candidate for parliament who will.

        You cannot do that in the EU because the EU parliament does not set the regulations.

        In the EU various un-elected commissions set the rules and cannot be over-ruled by any elected officials.

        In the democracy that the UK once was, if you felt workers had inadequate rights, you could fight for those rights and get a better party and MP elected, and that party and MP could change things.

        Not so in the EU, where parliament is a mere stooge, a whipping boy to shield bureaucrats.

  20. earl grey Silver badge
    Trollface

    I don't want to lose my Tweedys chicken pot pie

    No, it doesn't really have real chicken...

    1. defiler Silver badge

      Re: I don't want to lose my Tweedys chicken pot pie

      But does it have real pot?

  21. YARR

    Any reader who's still undecided should definitely NOT base their decision on this MINOR issue!!!

    Brexit is about National Sovereignty and independence - who governs us, how accountable they are and can they be removed from power? These are the important issues - that people have struggled and fought for for centuries. Handing our sovereignty to an EU superstate is literally treason.

    After Brexit the law that protects food names will still apply in the EU. If we want an equivalent law in Britain all we have to do is lobby our MPs to propose such a law - something our MPs can do but which MEPs cannot because the EU is undemocratic.

    1. H in The Hague

      "something our MPs can do but which MEPs cannot because the EU is undemocratic."

      In theory MPs can propose private member's bills. However, in practice they don't get serious treatment in parliament and are often talked out. They only have a chance of success if the government supports them. Basically it's a sham, a waste of time and something that shows parliament/government in a very bad light.

      Incidentally, I think there is a major problem with the first past the post system as the number of votes for particular parties is not accurately reflected in the number of MPs they get. Theoretically the advantage of the system is that MPs represent the interests of their constituents, but I get the impression that in practice they are rather more loyal to their party than their constituents. To me, that isn't v democratic at all.

      Anyway, time for a glass of beer/wine/tea/.... Cheers to all Commentards, and have a good weekend.

    2. WatAWorld

      Exactly, what sensible person would advocate deciding the BREXIT vote based on naming rights for fast food?

  22. Andrew Williams

    Is this piece a joke?

    Because it is either a shocking piece, devoid of any thought or research, or it is... No it's not April 1, so there's a fail there too.

    1. H in The Hague

      Re: Is this piece a joke?

      "Is this piece a joke?"

      This is The Register - tongue firmly planted in cheek, in the true British tradition (which is now appreciated through most of the EU, I think). And this piece has resulted in a wealth of comments - 90% well-considered, i.e. umpty times better than on most social media. And well-considered discussion and respect for one's opponents are both key components of British political life, or used to be, but sadly lacking in the current discourse (and equally lacking in the discourse elsewhere in the EU and throughout the world).

      Incidentally, when we had our first referendum on Europe (1975), the world was a much smaller and more fragmented place than it is now. The time for being Little Englanders/Little Brits/Little Dutch/Little Germans/Little Greeks/... has passed. There are undoubtedly many things wrong with the EU - it is the worst form of running a union of sorts, except for all the others (with apologies to (c) W. Churchill). This referendum is likely to affect us, and especially our children, and our pension pots, much more than the Westminster/Stormont/Holyrood/Cardydd elections.

      I do hope the above is not entirely incoherent, it's been a busy week, rounded off by half a bottle of wine (Italian, I think) and now a glass (made in Austria) of most excellent whisky (Scottish, for the benefit of our international readers). (And looking forward to my first ever glass of whiskey (Irish, the benefit of our international readers) tomorrow.)

      Cheers/Slainte/Iechyd da,

      H (normally in The Hague, NL, but currently in Bournemouth, UK - for the duration)

      1. x 7

        Re: Is this piece a joke?

        "rounded off by half a bottle of wine (Italian, I think)"

        you can't tell? Either its crap wine, or you've drunk too much of it!

        1. H in The Hague

          Re: Is this piece a joke?

          Dear X 7,

          Just checked and I must shamefacedly admit it was actually Spanish (and not that good, hence the restorative glass of whiskey).

          Probably time for a nice cup of tea now.

          Good night,

          H

          1. Mephistro Silver badge
            Happy

            Re: Is this piece a joke?

            "... it was actually Spanish (and not that good..."

            Yeah, we keep the good stuff for ourselves!

            1. DiViDeD Silver badge

              Re: we keep the good stuff for ourselves!

              As do the French. My first trip to a French supermarket exposed me to many wines better than anything I'd had in Blighty at frankly ludicrously low prices.

              THAT was a return ferry trip to remember. If only I could.

  23. x 7

    if the EU has been so successful at helping trade, how come we're not all eating frogs legs pasties? Or snail salad?

    1. H in The Hague

      Ermm, for the same reason we're not all eating haggis?

  24. Dr.Flay

    Proper Pasty Pic Please !

    While everyone is waffling on about Champagne for some reason, nobody has pointed out that the picture is not even a traditional Cornish Pasty.

    A proper 'ansome "Cornish Pasty" is made with chunks (never minced) of beef steak (either Chuck or Skirt).

    The picture looks like a chicken or lamb filling.

    This is a modern invention for fussy buggers that don't actually want a Cornish pasty, but want to look like they have one.

  25. IGnatius T Foobar
    Holmes

    Trademarks?

    Wouldn't a good set of trademarks serve this function better than trying to let international borders figure into it?

    Anyway ... thousands of miles away here in the US, my oven quite often churns out a Cornish Pasty or two, and I've never even thought to check with some foreign registry.

    1. bitten

      Re: Trademarks?

      Trademarks are for large companies not regional dishes. I guess it is possible to get the trademark or a patent on a regional product.

      Here we serve steak tartar as 'steak américain'

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Trademarks?

        "Trademarks are for large companies not regional dishes."

        I think the FairTrade mark demonstrates that you can use trademarks to protect pretty much anything you want, just as (obligatory IT reference here) the GPL manages to use copyright law to protect a lack of protectionism.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Trademarks?

          I'm not sure you can trademark "Cornwall" but if you could I think the name belongs to Chuck - Son of Phil the Greek.

  26. WatAWorld

    If Brexit successed UK computers won't be allowed to use Zeros and Ones

    The most monstrous thing is that, if the ignorant barbarian ignoramus hordes succeed against against the wise and powerful and properly breed, and the Brexit succseeds, then UK computers won't be allowed to use Zeros and Ones.

    I also have it on good authority that UK businesses will no longer be allowed to use screens or A4 paper, but will be relegated to B7 paper, which is 2.85 x 3.75 cm, totally hobbling the UK's ability to compete in international business.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: If Brexit successed UK computers won't be allowed to use Zeros and Ones

      Zeros and Ones for computers are a silly southern invention by the southern nancy (in the purely soft southerner sense) Turing

      Proper Yorkshire Quantum computers operate on the appen/mebbe system which allows all possible answer states to be considered simultaneously before arriving at "reet reckonin"

  27. WatAWorld

    If BREXIT succceeds Brits will no longer be allowed to speak English

    Hidden from the public by the= regular public by left-handed neo-fascist pencil-wielding BREXIT is the simple fact that English is now an EU language and British people will no longer be allowed to speak English at work if the BREXIT succeeds.

    In fact, international regulations will require that English not be spoken at home and the PM has been required to assure all 7 EU emperours that -- in the event of a BREXIT win -- each and every British citizen will be made to undergo mind-wiping to eliminate all knowledge of the English language.

    The public must be told that, in the event of a neo-Nazi inspired ultra-Communist BREXIT win, the only people legally allowed to speak English anywhere in the local galaxy cluster will -- will be citizens of EU nations and Sirius 7.

  28. Frenchie Lad

    And a Good Thing Too

    It might me a speciality of Cornwall but frankly it does not merit to be protected on gastronomic grounds. If Johnny Foreigner wants to go down the gastronomic scale let him do so.

  29. Bucky 2
    Coat

    Shenanigans

    So you're saying I can't give someone a Michigan Mop Job unless we're in Michigan? That give me sad feelings.

  30. Buiatra

    So sad news

    I'm sorry to say here that our friend here in Spain, Lester Haines, has suddenly died today. We ,all his friends, will miss him so much. It would be great having the Lohan project going in his memory

    Bye Lester

    1. x 7

      Re: So sad news

      sorry to hear this. His articles were always some of the most interesting to read, and fun to comment on, on the site. I'm sure I'm not alone in expressing sympathy and condolences to his family and friends.

    2. DiViDeD Silver badge

      Re: So sad news

      This is sad news indeed. thanks, Rubén, for letting us know. Simon (Sharwood) is in London right now and I understand some of Lester's colleagues will be flying out to Spain today.

      Please pass on my condolences to his friends and family at this time.

      And I agree that LOHAN would be a fitting memorial for the man who reinvented the shed based boffin.

      Fly on Lester, you'll be missed.

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