back to article Even in remotest Africa, Windows 10 nagware ruins your day: Update burns satellite link cash

When you're stuck in the middle of the Central African Republic (CAR) trying to protect the wildlife from armed poachers and the Lord's Resistance Army, then life's pretty tough. And now Microsoft has made it tougher with Windows 10 upgrades. The Chinko Project manages roughly 17,600 square kilometres (6,795 square miles) of …

  1. Craig 2

    There's one big lesson from all these Windows 10 horror stories... don't use Microsoft products for mission critical applications, they can fuck you over any time.

    1. Preston Munchensonton
      Coat

      I suppose that no one should point out how many ATMs are still running Windows XP or earlier. It's not surprising that Microsoft's nagware reaches the furthest corners of the globe, but banks should know better.

      1. Mage Silver badge

        XP

        XP is safe from Win 10 Nagware.

        If not connected to the Internet it's fine. ATM didn't use to connect to the Internet, if i was connecting an ATM using ANY OS, I'd use a properly setup VPN to my ATM's Server. What sort of idiot would have a cash dispensing machine or it's transaction server over the Internet without a proper VPN?

        If XP set-up and used "properly" by an IT expert, there isn't as much risk as W7, W8 or W10 used badly. (i.e. by typical user that auto clicks on OK, adds browser tool bars, uses Outlook and MS browser, has no script blocking, Java, Adobe PDF, Media Player , Flash etc all work in browser by default. Not your typical El Reg commentard)

        1. swm Bronze badge

          Re: XP

          I still run XP on one of my machines. When I ran antivirus, firewall, etc. I got infected twice and the machine ran like a pig. Now I run without antivirus and firewall and the machine great without any infections (I am careful though). I have a laptop I use only for square dance calling and have all updates turned off so I never got the update that started all of the nagware. My other machines run linux and they are very stable.

          There is nothing wrong with the Microsoft platform if they would stop changing the UI and monetizing everything to the detriment of the user experience.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        ATMs will be set as POS and get updates until 2019 I think

      3. TheFunkeyGibbon

        Re: ATMs

        One crashed and kept my card a couple of years back. As it rebooted I wasn't sure to laugh or cry to see the OS2 Warp loading sc

    2. BobChip
      Flame

      Don't use Microsoft products ....

      at all. While I am not a Microsoft user myself (and increasingly grateful for it), I find it simply unbelievable that they will deliberately mess about with an operating system which underpins a large number of life critical processes; e.g. in hospitals and medical equipment, air traffic control and some aircraft flight control systems. And doubtless others I am not aware of.

      Claiming that this is all covered by users consent granted in the EULA does not stop it being utterly irresponsible and dangerous. Any bright ideas as to how this behaviour can be stopped before somebody gets killed? Otherwise we may see the EULA being played as a defence in a manslaughter trial....

      1. Chloe Cresswell

        Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

        We have xray machines (drugs scanners) on XP, we can't upgrade them because we can't be sure the software (dosing) will be safe.

        The newer models we have use W7 Pro.

        Thankfully they aren't networked, but I don't want to be the one writing the assement on the softwares safety if the host OS upgrades before testing has been completed..

      2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Holmes

        Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

        mess about with an operating system which underpins a large number of life critical processes; e.g. in hospitals and medical equipment, air traffic control and some aircraft flight control systems

        Empirically demonstrated preference say that these are NOT "life critical processes", they are processes for which "cheap and cheerful and a quick hail mary" are good enough and a reboot is likely to fix things within allotted MTTR. Any spillage can probably be mopped up by lawyers and gag orders (with dead people piously under-rugged while whistling a joyful tune)

      3. Antron Argaiv Silver badge

        Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

        Certainly, not for embedded designs. While Microsoft may be the obvious answer, licensing is painful, intricately elaborate and subject to change. And frankly, there's not much advantage to using an embedded Microsoft OS. There are good Android and Linux embedded offerings which can do the same job and still leave you in control of your design and product behaviour.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

          "Certainly, not for embedded designs"

          There are 'kiosk' machines all over the place still running WinXP. I've noticed them in airports operating display panels. I also recently came across an arcade video game machine running Win2K!

          1. Bastoid

            Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

            Came across a kiosk in the middle of a Win10 upgrade just a small week ago. It was hanging. That gave me a good chuckle. And irritated me at the same time.

      4. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

        Sadly, the Windows EULA absolves Microsoft from being liable for ANY damages caused by the operation of their Operating System.

        This may be only correct for the USofA. I'd love to see it challenged in a court though.

        At the very least MS should cough up for this org's Satellite charges but I wouldn't get my hopes too high.

      5. Mephistro Silver badge

        Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

        "...users consent granted in the EULA does not stop it being utterly irresponsible and dangerous."

        EULAs are not the word of God, at least in the EU. Abusive clauses, both in EULAs and contracts, can be challenged in court and invalidated. In some extreme cases, the whole contract can be invalidated.

        One of these days, Microsoft will suffer The Mother of All CALs and pay dearly for all this GWX crap. The sad part is that when (if) that happens, Satya Nadella will be already retired and enjoying his bonuses!. :-(

        1. Mephistro Silver badge

          Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

          Ooppss. After writing my comment, I noticed that Steve Davies had written a similar comment before mine.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

          "EULAs are not the word of God, at least in the EU"

          The word of any god, being as far as I am aware, irrelevant to EU law...

      6. Roo
        Windows

        Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

        "Any bright ideas as to how this behaviour can be stopped before somebody gets killed?"

        I suggest sending MS big shots to the game reserve to do a bit of game keeping wearing nice bright visivests and toting slingshots would be the best solution. I wouldn't expect sociopathic MBAs to "get it" until their own lives & money are on the line.

      7. jzl

        Re: Don't use Microsoft products ....

        "While I am not a Microsoft user myself"

        I bet you are. We all are, in one way or another. It's just not always obvious where and how.

    3. oiseau Silver badge
      WTF?

      Fixed

      There's one big lesson from all these Windows 10 horror stories... don't use Microsoft products for mission critical applications, they will always fuck you over.

      There you go ...

      Fixed it for you.

      Cheers,

    4. Bob Vistakin
      Windows

      Tut tut tut

      Tuttity fucking tut.

    5. Bob Vistakin
      Windows

      Perhaps a petition might help.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "when one of the donated laptops the team uses began upgrading to Windows 10 automatically"

      So presumably a consumer licensed product being used for commercial purposes instead of properly reimaging it to Windows Pro or Enterprise....

      If you try and run a hardware and OS zoo, you just might get bitten!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "So presumably a consumer licensed product being used for commercial purpose"

        There is usually very little that is "commercial" about wild life protection.

        Do you know that you sound like an MS bum-boy BTW?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "There is usually very little that is "commercial" about wild life protection"

          Actually there is. Most such organisations are charities or government departments which in general are run like businesses. They should be installing licensed copies of whatever OS they choose to use - not a hand-me-down from Joe Public. This is mostly an issue of IT management competence, not a Microsoft OS problem.

          1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

            > They should be installing licensed copies of whatever OS they choose to use

            They did that, but apparently Microsoft decided to choose a different OS for them - one they did not want.

          2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            As far as I'm aware, a licensed copy of Windows that is tied to a specific computer is still valid if the computer changes ownership.

  2. gerdesj Silver badge
    Linux

    Pretty cynical upgrade

    Vast parts of the world are unable to get a decent connection to the tubes and I doubt this is an isolated case.

    Trouble is, the people most inconvenienced and ending up with massive satellite phone bills or dial up charges are those least able to defend themselves, or litigate to stop this nonsense.

    I wonder if Project Loon will end up being just a Windows update transfer mechanism.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: Pretty cynical upgrade

      "Vast parts of the world are unable to get a decent connection to the tubes and I doubt this is an isolated case."

      Exactly, and even in the USA there are places where 'high speed' isn't so high.

      I've come to the conclusion that Micro-shaft is being run by a bunch of immature elitist children. All of the experienced people retired and cashed in their stock options, leaving the "millenial generation" running the show, The exceptions (Nadella, Belfiore) aren't much better from what I can tell. They "feel" as if *EVERYONE* on the planet has "bandwidth to burn", and even tries to force us to share that bandwidth with everyone around us [I guess Micro-shaft pays for THEIR bendwidth usage..].

      MSDN downloads have been broken since February last year, if it takes more than about 5 hours to download a multi-GB ISO image (their security parameters time out and the web server resets the connection). So if your connection isn't at least 3Mbits/sec [business connections at that rate cost $150/month or more in my area] you can't download large ISO images (such as, let's say, 64-bit Windows 10? Or the latest DevStudio?) without doing some *HACKING*.

      Fortunately, after nearly a year of not working properly (as reported by ME), Micro-shaft fixed the 'range' header in their MSDN web server so that it's now POSSIBLE to pick up where you left off, if the URL doesn't actually time out. I came up with a hack that use wireshark [to grab their URL with the security parameters] to continue a download via 'wget' using a named output file and a different URL. It "works". Prior to that you used an ActiveX control in IE to download for more than 5 hours, and I had to do that at a business back in the late noughties (2008-ish time frame). So this was not and IS not a *NEW* problem. They simply ASSUME we're all SUPER RICH and can AFFORD *UNLIMITED* BANDWIDTH (and don't mind them STEALING it).

      Hopefully they won't break my hack. It's not like I didn't PAY for the privilege of downloading.

      Anyway I hope that shows their attitude about *OUR* bandwidth limitations, whatever they may be. It's like they don't give a flying "frack".

      1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        Re: download hack

        Nice Hacking Bob!

        I had similar issue trying to DL Doom from a BB in about 93.

        14.4 kbps modem , 1.4mb floppy . 1 hour to get it...

        Didnt find a solution though

    2. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Pretty cynical upgrade

      "Vast parts of the world are unable to get a decent connection to the tubes and I doubt this is an isolated case."

      Nope. The same problems apply in Outer Bumfuckistan, even when on mobile data connections.

      Having something attempt to update to Win10 might not seem like a problem at 0.7c/MB, but when you realise the average income for the locals is $4/day, you might change your tune (especially when it repeatedly fails and takes the best part of 2-3 weeks to actually suceed, making the total xfer more like 9-10Gb)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pretty cynical upgrade

      I wonder if Project Loon will end up being just a Windows update transfer mechanism.

      I think that may actually end up one of the few networks that will be safe from Microsoft's virus attacks on computers, because there is no way on Earth that Google would allow Microsoft to get in the way of their privacy slurping activities.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pretty cynical upgrade

      "I wonder if Project Loon will end up being just a Windows update transfer mechanism."

      I doubt there will be any spare bandwidth after Chrome and Android security patches...

  3. raving angry loony

    Bill them?

    If you've set "automatic updates" to "no", and they still use up expensive bandwidth to download crap that you've specifically said you didn't want, perhaps Microsoft needs to be billed for these instances?

    Of course, they'll never pay, the defence being that "hey, they should have known what they were doing" in the never-ending war against Microsoft using your bandwidth to improve their profit margin. This from a company that hides the real purpose of "security updates", refuses to divulge the purpose of an update unless you visit their website (and sometimes not even then), and does not actually provide a mechanism to say "no" to automatic downloads of Windows 10.

    I can only wonder - when is the lawsuit? Oh, right, never, because the people most affected have already been ruined by Microsoft before they even start trying to sue.

    1. Triggerfish

      Re: Bill them?

      Don't sue them, post on their twitter and everywhere else, they pay not to have such bad publicity for something like this.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bill them?

        >Don't sue them, post on their twitter and everywhere else, they pay not to have such bad publicity for something like this.

        Nah - I'm sure heads rolled and ulcers grew at Apple during the 'holding it wrong' fiasco but they really pushed the 'just works' bollocks - the default feedback for Microsoft products is always overwhelmingly negative and they couldn't care less. It's essentially a free product and most people will use it anyway - users without bandwidth are not likely to produce much milk.

    2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: Bill them?

      Slurp seems to be dodging the really heavy return fire. What will really get there attention is when one of their antics is the direct cause of some serious injury or death. At which point, the ambulance chasers will be the heros and much wealthier as well their client. OS upgrades must be user managed to suit the user's needs.

      Back to the story, this is a situation that shows how Slurp's arrogance endangers people and wrecks budgets. The wildlife preserve is fairly typical; the IT staff is most IT literate staffer whose primary job is something else.

    3. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Disclaimer

      Software comes with a 'warranty', but a more accurate word would be disclaimer. A typical warranty disclaims everything, unless such a broad disclaimer would make it invalid. There are limits on what can be disclaimed for a physical object, so software sometimes comes with half a promise to replace the media it is supplied on if it is defective. Consequential damage is explicitly disclaimed. Restitution (if there is the remotest possibility of it ever happening) is limited to the purchase price of the software. Fitness for purpose and fitness for merchantability are usually explicitly denied.

      There could be an implied warranty from a name, for example 'Internet Explorer' could possibly imply the software might enable a user to explore the internet. 'Edge' provides no such implied warranty, and any implied warranty (that it is Edgy?) is almost certainly disclaimed.

      IANAL, and I have not read a Microsoft license recently, but I would expect: Downloading something when explicitly told not to is not actionable because no warranty of fitness for purpose was ever given. A big phone bill and being shot at are consequential damages that are explicitly disclaimed. If the download failed, Microsoft might possibly be required to let them download again, but I wouldn't bet on it. Unless the contributors paid extra for a distributor license, Microsoft licenses typically say they are not transferable. This means the operating system that comes with a gift computer is not properly licensed, so Microsoft could sue the chinko project unlicensed use of software and copyright infringement.

      Free software comes with a similar warranty, but a distributor license is available to anyone willing to abide by the conditions (sometimes preserving attribution, sometimes preserving the rights of the recipients).

      1. LaeMing Silver badge

        Re: Disclaimer

        Every disclaimer that I have ever seen in the past couple of decades out of a packaged software house explicitly forbids its use in potentially life-threatening situations. So no sue-ball.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Disclaimer

          "So no sue-ball."

          Depending on your jurisdiction over-wide terms might make the entire EULA unenforceable. A EULA which is only displayed after you've bought the product might have the same effect. But if suing is out - and even if it isn't - a charge of corporate manslaughter might still be possible,

        2. Triggerfish

          Re: Disclaimer

          They won't have the money to sue anyway hows a bunch of people like that going to do going up against Redmonds lawyers whose hourly fee's are probably this lots operating budget for a day?

          However if everyone starts hearing how MS is endangering rare species and putting the people who work to protect them under risk, and have slurped their budget, they'll shit bricks in MS PR dept.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Disclaimer

            "They won't have the money to sue anyway"

            If we're just talking about comms costs, bill them, 30 days to pay, then go to the small claims court. However much money MS's lawyers charge is of no relevance. Get a judgement & if they don't pay send the bailiffs into the local office to seize goods to the value.

            1. AndyS

              Re: Disclaimer

              "... then go to the small claims court..."

              You maybe missed the bit about this charity working in CAR? Although I guess the tactics you describe would probably work elsewhere pretty well. Certainly the one time I've every seriously fallen out with a company who owed me money, the mere fact that I sent an "advanced" copy of the filled in Small Claims Court paperwork to them (letting them know I would be filing it in 24 hours), the money turned up in my account by the end of the day.

      2. BobChip
        Unhappy

        Re: Disclaimer

        All perfectly true, but... A EULA is essentially a civil contract. Using a EULA disclaimer to protect yourself in a civil case would probably work, (your downloads cost me all my ISP's allowance / trashed my business etc.), but very likely would not in a manslaughter - criminal - case (your downloads killed my daughter). I'm watching out for the first case to test either of these possibilities. Let's seriously hope no one has to die to make the point.

    4. -tim
      Go

      Re: Bill them?

      I have billed Microsoft and while I didn't get paid, my bandwidth bill just went away.

      I was running a usenet server and some windows malware liked to try to connect and scan for email addresses so I was getting millions of hits per day. After hand delivering a bill to their local office, I had their tech support people call me to tell me how to install anti-virus on my server... after a bit of explaining and getting pushed around jr tech support agents, someone with a clue figured out what the deal was. Microsoft was a major partner with my hosting provider and some how the problem just disappeared. I ended up changing the hostname of the usenet server and I still get about 1000 DNS queries a day for the old name from decade old malware.

    5. Never10_use_Puppylinux

      Re: Bill them? never10 to prevent upgrade.

      "and does not actually provide a mechanism to say "no" to automatic downloads of Windows 10."

      Google Never10 and find a little 163 kilobyte utility from Gibson research to say "no" and turn off the Get Windows 10 nag ware. The other utility is GWX Control panel from a different source.

      Last consider an upgrade path to a Version of Linux or BSD. Http://puppex.exton.net or Http://www.linuxmint.com or http://pcbsd.org. Or http://puppylinux.org

  4. Please choose a User Name
    Pirate

    Windows 10...

    ..."by any means necessary."

  5. Graham Marsden
    Devil

    "Microsoft should also hand over a big donation...

    "... for inconveniencing and potentially endangering the group."

    "We have these Windows phones we'd like to give you..."

    1. Marketing Hack Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: "Microsoft should also hand over a big donation...

      And we've got these leftover Zune MP3 players! :)

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: "Microsoft should also hand over a big donation...

        "And we've got these leftover Zune MP3 players! :)"

        At least those don't need iTunes and won't be nagged to update to Win 10.

        1. m0rt Silver badge

          Re: "Microsoft should also hand over a big donation...

          True. iTunes on any device is an abomination of the highest order.

          What we have reached, ladies and gents, is the beginning of the end of Microsoft. Apple is there, just following them. Both have reached the point were they are too big, too out of touch. They only ever feed off their own internal bullshit, therefore don't actually *get* what it is they are producing anymore.

          Our lives are not their commodity. Just because we connect *our* devices to the internet that have your OS, does not mean that *they* get to do whatever the bollocks it is they want.

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
            Coat

            Re: "Microsoft should also hand over a big donation...

            "What we have reached, ladies and gents, is the beginning of the end of Microsoft."

            The Windows event horizon?

            The one with the dark holes in the pockets ------>

          2. Rol Silver badge

            Re: "Microsoft should also hand over a big donation...

            This is the beginning of the end of ownership.

            Your OS, your music, your data, will eventually be rented to you.

            Win10 is the first step in a process that will see you paying by the month to use their product.

            Older products will just keep rumbling along, but MS knows that once your PC kit starts to fail and a new bit of kit is needed then they have you, as the new bit of kit will insist on the latest OS to run.

            The relationship between MS, software developers and the hardware churners is symbiotic, they feed off of each others product and each in turn adds that little extra requirement that you must also go knocking on their buddies door to get whatever it is you bought to work.

            You've seen it in operation:- the game that can be tweeked in all manner of ways, except the ability to turn down the graphics to a point your five year old machine can cope: or the OS that once happily scanned your docs, now refusing to acknowledge you even have a scanner.

            Your PC is slowly being taken away from you in incremental steps, and perhaps with the IoT we might just enter the age of the everlasting light-bulb, but expect, just like the PC, to be paying rent on it forever.

            1. Commswonk Silver badge

              Re: "Microsoft should also hand over a big donation...

              This is the beginning of the end of ownership.

              Your OS, your music, your data, will eventually be rented to you.

              Win10 is the first step in a process that will see you paying by the month to use their product.

              I think you will find the "beginning of the end" was some time ago. I bought a second hand laptop nearly 12 months ago and bought a 12 month version of Win 7, so in fact Win 10 is not really the "first step".

              It was with some trepidation that earlier today I set about the process of a 12 month renewal, which basically happened OK... and then the "update to Win 10" nagware started. The available options were "now" or "tell us when" with NEVER not being an option. My only escape route was the big X in a red box, and knowing what has happened to others when they used this method I was ready to get very cross. Fortunately crashing out was not interpreted as "yes please" as others have reported on El Reg, and I took the opportunity - given that I was asked to provide feedback about the Microsoft Store experience - to tell the company in no uncertain terms that I did not welcome Win 10 nagware with no obvious means of avoiding it.

              I turned the laptop off PDQ just in case there was any attempt at revenge for my insolence. I don't doubt they will be awaiting for it to be turned on again.

          3. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

            Re: "Microsoft should also hand over a big donation...

            "They only ever feed off their own internal bullshit, therefore don't actually *get* what it is they are producing anymore."

            Could be worse than that. These big companies are mostly based on the West Coast, the talent pool at top level must be getting about as incestuous as the Hapsburgs. And look what happened to them.

          4. Afernie

            Re: "Microsoft should also hand over a big donation...

            "What we have reached, ladies and gents, is the beginning of the end of Microsoft. "

            Pretty sure I've seen a variation on that sentiment in essentially every article concerning Microsoft on El Reg, ever.

    2. SVV Silver badge

      Re: "Microsoft should also hand over a big donation...

      I wonder what that world renowned philanthropist Bill Gates, who cares so much about Africa, thinks of this shit?

      Apparently he's still a director, so maybe someone could have a little word with him?

  6. Mark 85 Silver badge

    and Microsoft should also hand over a big donation for inconveniencing and potentially endangering the group.

    Not going to happen. I doubt if there will even be an apology or even an "oops". Probably a statement like "so what if it cost a few lives, this important update is worth it.". Or some similar barnyard debris.

    It's one thing to hit first world, etc... it's quite another to hit 3rd world or war zones. Haven't these clowns heard of geo-blocking? Or doesn't it matter that someone is on a limited and expensive connection?

    MS are showing that they are a bunch of arrogant, self-centered asses who are only concerned with the "numbers" of upgrades downgrades and their bonuses. A pox upon them and all that they spawn.

    1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      @ Mark 85 - To be pedantic, sorry, but it's not downgrades but the installation of spyware.

  7. Mr Flibble

    I'm using a 'net connection for which download cost varies by time of day (and which day it is too). Were Windows 10 an issue here (it isn't, there being no machines to be updated to it) and I couldn't schedule the download for the cheapest part of the day, I'd be complaining publicly about it and billing Microsith for the extra data costs (unless I could successfully defer the download by temporarily blocking access to the update servers).

    1. Magani
      Linux

      Defer it

      Without wishing for one moment to be seen defending the Great Satan of Software, I have made sure that all the Windoze 10 PCs [*] in the house are of the Pro variety. At least then you can actually chose *when* they grab all your bandwidth.

      [*] Some household members have yet to see the The Light of the Penguin.

  8. dwonk786

    Microsoft's crimes against humanity... Part 1

    http://gojblog.net

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft's crimes against humanity... Part 1

      "http://gojblog.net"

      The blog starts by claiming Microsoft started this a couple of years ago. As it's less then one year that's a bad start. Having a glaring factual error just devalues the rest of it, especially when it's the first thing you read.

  9. Winkypop Silver badge
    Alert

    ....an unexpectedly rough landing...(that requires saving for a new plane)

    Is usually what's known as a crash.

    Mind, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.

    Talking of crashes, I think MS should be ashamed.

  10. LaeMing Silver badge
    Trollface

    Maybe,

    they should encourage the militarised poachers to hunt Microsoft board members to extinction?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Maybe,

      Or simply offer a bounty on their heads, to divert the locals from poaching? Just call it sustainable development.

      1. Number6

        Re: Maybe,

        Easier approach would be to tip off MS that the poachers are running pirated copies of Windows. that way the poachers would be fighting off the MS legal department, which would then actually be performing a useful service to the world.

  11. Eddy Ito Silver badge

    And those of us who didn't expect this...

  12. Christian Berger Silver badge

    Again, that's why we need minimal systems

    The things they are trying to achieve doesn't need a Windows 10 update function... and probably none of the many features that are exclusive to Windows. We need to learn to have minimal systems again.

    If we just want to use some specialized applications we should be able to run those applications on top of a slim stack of software. Ideally something like a "sign" program would just start up your Windows with the "sign" as the only executable executing. On Linux that would be the system booting up to a shell script starting up your X11 server and then your software.

    If you don't need certain functionality, just try to avoid it. Should you need it later you can always boot in a different configuration.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Again, that's why we need minimal systems

      This. A friend got a £400 or more (no idea they won't tell me) second hand gaming PC. SSD, 6 core CPU, mid to high end GPU, 8gb RAM. Why? They want to future proof their... DVD playing and Solitaire.

      Their current PC would have done with an SSD upgrade. But all the advertising and badgering from the MS updates and advertising and "friends" saying they needed a gaming pc, and well, they got a bit of a lemon.

      They had not figured out a sports car don't have the reliability of a old rusty truck. :P

    2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: Again, that's why we need minimal systems

      While your idea has merit, the problem is for many users the PC is not just used for one set of applications but for a multitude. Also, what is the minimum required for a reasonably functional OS/distro needs to be answered. The sheer number of Linux distros indicates there is not one single answer.

      But I believe Slurp loves to add esoteric functionality that very few users will ever use. Partly because they do not have a real repository system for adding functionality on demand. While a Linux distro can minimize the functionality in the base install knowing the user has full access to the repository and can easily add (or remove) functionality as needed.

    3. swm Bronze badge

      Re: Again, that's why we need minimal systems

      I once installed windows NT2K from scratch and was amazed that there were only 15 tasks running (as shown in the task manager) including tasks from all users. I thought I had made a mistake but everything worked quite nicely. This was in the age before bloatware became common. I still run an NT2K (service-pack 0) virtual machine so I can run some copy-protected software that doesn't run in any higher-level operating system. Total memory usage is 42 MBytes!

  13. N2 Silver badge

    Twats

    That is all.

  14. Tony Paulazzo

    Why Haven't you reached out to Microsoft for a comment, the readers of Reddit can't (well, they could but MS would ignore them), this story was cribbed, almost verbatim, from there - which is cool, but then your journalistic instincts should take over, question MS, ask the big questions.

    Microsoft are acting like the douchiest of companies at the moment and no one is calling them out for it. Same with Oculus (Facebook) and their terrible after sales support / DRM on VR headsets. Demand answers, ruffle feathers, be journalists...

    /rant

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "Check with your Windows admins at your site! "

      That's a great idea. Something along the lines of being fed and then biting the hands of the person doing the feeding. Might make a cool slogan like "Do No Evil" if the PR people can run with and polish IT up.

  15. psychonaut

    screenshot

    is that one of those new samsung curved monitors?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: screenshot

      Yes, but as you can see they're useless in windy environments.

  16. ChrisElvidge

    Set all your connections to metered

    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-networking/how-to-set-an-ethernet-connection-as-metered-to/ecdaca08-d413-4a6a-9e33-b4afb337fc18?auth=1

    1. dajames Silver badge

      Re: Set all your connections to metered

      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-networking/how-to-set-an-ethernet-connection-as-metered-to/ecdaca08-d413-4a6a-9e33-b4afb337fc18?auth=1

      Interesting ... and thanks for the link.

      It's daft though, they haven't though this through thoroughly enough (why am I not surprised).

      WiFi should be settable to metered or unmetered by SSID, not as a blanket setting. I, for example, should like my domestic broadband's WIFi hotspot to "unmetered" but my mobile phone's WiFi hotpsot to "metered".

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: Set all your connections to metered

        How I wish for calls into user-provided Lua scripts to control the system's logics instead of the stupid search-wonder-click-oh-no-can't-do-that-it's-buggy-anyway bullshit idiot GUI routine.

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Set all your connections to metered

      Only additional setting, is to tell the system to ignore the metering setting when accessing the printer.

      Personally, I don't understand why I can't default to all network connections being metered and have to select those networks that are unmetered and hence available for use by Windows Update. Suspect there is probably a registry key that MS hasn't told anyone about...

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yikes

    If any one needed a clearer understanding of what a "first world problem" is, look no further than this article.

  18. Rabbit80

    WSUS

    On bandwidth limited networks using WSUS is essential and is nice and easy to prevent W10 nag ware or any other crap.. plus it has the added advantage that one download can serve dozens of laptops or PC's.

  19. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. Palpy

      Re: ISLAMISTS killing the animals ?

      Islamic terrorists don't have a lock on the poaching profession by any means. The Lord's Resistance Army, a "heterodox Christian cult" operating in Sudan, Uganda, the CAR and the DRC, finances its operation partly through poaching elephants.

      AFAIK, poachers in Africa can be tribal (for 'bushmeat'), members of various rebel groups (to support whatever cause they're fighting for), criminals seeking profit, or 'professional' guides for rich white Americans.

      I assume you do not intend to paint all Muslims as terrorists. If so, however, remember that that the KKK was explicitly Christian and Protestant. Christian terrorism is periodically resurgent in the USA, as per the Army of God and the Baptist CSA. Today the KKK, like Al Qaeda, has decentralized into semi-independent 'franchises', making it harder to categorize (and harder for law enforcement to infiltrate).

      The point is that virtually any religious doctrine can be turned to the purposes of violence and terrorism. And they have been.

      All that said, certainly Muslim terrorists are a terrible scourge at this time in history. In places like Syria and Iraq, the victims of Muslim violence are overwhelmingly other Muslims. Because, in the end, it's not about religion. It's about power: overthrowing the existing order, getting money and weapons, seizing power, controlling other people.

      (Let the downvotes commence... and I've said my piece, no political flame wars for me!)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ISLAMISTS killing the animals ?

        I never thought the KKK was all about Christianity .. I always thought it was about race supremacy .. as a matter of fact didn't they burn crosses?

    2. promacjoe2

      Re: ISLAMISTS killing the animals ?

      Islam is not the problem. it's just a cloak that the Terrorist/Poachers use. An excuse that in their minds gives them the right to kill, enslave, and basically abuse all others that do not agree with them. I would have said believe the way they do, but that's really not what their after. They want power and wealth. It's kinda like Hitler saying they were the master race. There is not a master race. We are all equal.. And we should not assign blame to anyone Race/religion. And we should acknowledge that pretty much every Religion has had their holy war. Wars against other groups that may or may not believe the way they did. unfortunately the terrorist is not learned from history.

      Do not fall in their trap. They want you to spread hate against the Islamic religion. With that they gain power, Sympathizers and More terrorist. Treat everyone the same. As if they were not terrorists. And if you have a strong suspicion that someone is doing something wrong. Report It to your local police department. But do not "Assume". And do not include the terrorist as being representative of all within that religion.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: ISLAMISTS killing the animals ?

        1) Provide free passage to join ISIS

        2) Just kill them all in situ

        That's what P.U.T.I.N. did, and he got vilified for it (while Al Qaeda now has a Washington Lobby, we have reached levels of iron irony.)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ISLAMISTS killing the animals ?

        Are you sure Islam is not the problem? Why in literally 90% of all wars today one side is always "islamic"?

        Islam against mainland Chinese

        Islam against wildlife in Africa

        Islam against Hindus

        Islam against Christians

        Islam terror bombing Europeans

        Islam against Thailand

        Islam against Jews

        Islam against the Philippines

        Islamists burning thousands of cars in France

        Islam genociding Kurds

        Islam against India

        Islam against Mali

        Islam against Russia

        Islam against the U.S.

        Islamists raping Swedish women

        Islamists stabbing and shooting Canadians

        Islam against Sudanese

        Islam against Islam

        Islam against Democracy

        Islam against ancient archaeology

        and on and on .. the list keeps going.

        'Sounds like a problem to me.

        1. DasWezel

          Re: ISLAMISTS killing the animals ?

          Bellendery against mainland Chinese

          Bellendery against wildlife in Africa

          Bellendery against Hindus

          Bellendery against Christians

          Bellendery terror bombing Europeans

          Bellendery against Thailand

          Bellendery against Jews

          Bellendery against the Philippines

          Bellends burning thousands of cars in France

          Bellendery genociding Kurds

          Bellendery against India

          Bellendery against Mali

          Bellendery against Russia

          Bellendery against the U.S.

          Bellends raping Swedish women

          Bellends stabbing and shooting Canadians

          Bellendery against Sudanese

          Bellendery against Bellendery

          Bellendery against Democracy

          Bellendery against ancient archaeology

          and on and on .. the list keeps going.

          TIFTFY. The world gets a little bit better when people stop accepting religion as a scapegoat to be pretty shitty towards other people, and realise that these acts aren't performed by a religion, but by bellends.

  20. LDS Silver badge

    Microsoft shows it doesn't know its customers, or doesn't care

    Too many people in Redmond believe that home and pro users are just consumer types using their PCs just to 'play', while only the domain-joined enterprise ones are used for 'business'. There are no use case in the middle, for them.

    Stories like this and some of the previous ones show how much disconnected from reality MS executives are (and you wonder how they get there also). They still live in a 1990 bubble, and that explains a lot of their past plans. Probably the reason is we're seeing MS now ruled by people very good at inside fighting to reach the big chairs, but utterly incapable of running a company, the contempt they're showing for users is a big symptom of that.

    1. N2 Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft shows it doesn't know its customers, or doesn't care

      Yup,

      MS dont give a shit about their customers, 'revenue streams' are all they care about, customers are a fekkin inconvenience.

  21. Fihart

    elderly victims

    Microsoft's megalomaniac Windows 10 claims another victim. Call lunchtime from elderly neighbour saying that her computer had locked up and there was this weird new block of stuff on the screen. I pop round to find that Windows 7 has been kiboshed by an unasked-for Windows 10 download.

    This woman is in her eighties and claims that she doesn't understand how to use Google. She does a few things on the computer -- email, letter writing, scanning and printing. She has evolved a fixed way of doing thing that wouldn't make much sense to an experienced user -- but it works for her.

    Then comes along some sociopath at Microsoft who feels they have the right to invade her computer leaving it not only unusable (by her) but actually no longer functioning.

    Fortunately, I was able to close the machine down without doing further damage, get Windows 10 restarted and quickly add Classic Shell to slightly reduce the mystification factor. Very luckily everything that she does still seems to work -- even the scanner/printer.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm sorry, but

    I deplore click baits, and this story, neatly timed for Friday, is such cheap shot. Yes, MS upgrade is sham, yes, MS suck and they're (...) and worse (you'd think Ian Banks was their inspiration with his last novel on subliming ;)

    All that said, I'm disappointed that so many people fell for this clickbait. And then, to the subject matter, the MS action has been so widely publicized over the internet, that I find it staggering that no-one at this remote project had enough skills to google the issue and pick up an easy fix. I mean, it doesn't take an IT God to run this project to figure out how to download and run gwx control panel.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm sorry, but

      We are just here for the helpless bitching.

      But when Trump or Bernie will be president, then .... FACKELZUG!!

    2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: I'm sorry, but

      Yes, of course. Why didn't the local IT department in the jungle get on top of this in time?

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    If you use Microsoft products...

    Then you are part of the problem.

    So make 2016 your year to stop.

    1. A Ghost
      Stop

      Re: If you use Microsoft products...

      I've upvoted you out of goodwill as your sentiment is spot on.

      If I may though, could I point out just a teensy weensy little caveat to your argument?

      It's a point that has been made several times before, but it bears repeating, because it's the 'reality' for many people. That reality is this - Some of us have spent thousands and thousands of pounds on certain types of software that will only run in a Windows OS environment. I'm talking specifically audio software here, but it could equally apply to some 3D or graphics software. Once you have invested the thousands of pounds, and then invested many years learning said products, then there really is no choice but to stick with Microsoft windows.

      Even if there were alternatives (and there are not) then it would mean buying new software (also to the tune of thousands of pounds), and investing months if not years again to learn how to master it.

      I have only recently got all the software I desire, and only even more recently have I learned how to master it, to an extent. And then Microsoft pulls the rug out from under your feet.

      So, by all means, tell people that if they are still using windows, that they are part of the problem, but hopefully you see that it isn't quite that simple, now I've pointed out that certain caveat.

      Of course, take your machine off the net. But even then that poses problems with authentication. It is a fact of life that people who buy the software are penalised where as those that use cracks are not. Some devs are worse than others, but on the whole it is getting much harder to not connect your main machine for audio to the net.

      In fact, it is even quite difficult to get this to work on a virtual machine (audio software) because of driver support. Plus, if you have spent months and even years in my cases building the specific software architecture you require (folder structures, preferences, partitions etc.), then you will be loathe to take another few months or years to do it all over again.

      Some developers are even penalising users for running the software in a VM - Lennar Digital Sylenth for example will not even run if it detect Hyper-V enabled on a recent win OS, whether the plugin is run in a VM or not. This is an exception of course, but a myriad of barriers exist to getting audio software to run smoothly on any machine, let alone virtually or in another environment.

      Hopefully now you can see why some of us are so angry with microsoft. We simply have no choice in the matter. We've been robbed. Of our purchased software, our time, our good will, etc. etc. etc.

      Bully for you if you can dump the bastards outright - I would too in a heartbeat, but you know, I didn't spend all this money and take all this time to just say 'oh, well, you know what, forget it, didn't want to use it anyway'....

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: If you use Microsoft products...

        @ A Ghost - The problem you highlight is a real problem for many and has no trivial solution. But for many others, I suspect most actually, they do not use any highly specialized software that does not have an available equivalent for Linux, OS X, or even online that has all the features they need. So they could switch to something else. The key many are saying is if enough people migrate to away from Slurp and Winbloat, it will make other platforms more attractive for developers and hurt Slurp in the wallet.

        In my case, Linux has equivalents available for the Winbloat software or the same software for my needs. So, in my case, using Linux is a viable option which I have taken.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: If you use Microsoft products...

          Trouble is, in many cases, a viable substitute ISN'T available. For example, serious gamers can't really jump to Linux without abandoning access to a vast number of games: especially new headliners that aren't WINE- or VM-friendly. And you can write the developers all they want; some like Bethesda (Fallout 4) have sworn off Linux as too complicated to develop for (because it isn't united unlike on MacOS or Windows). Plus once DX12 games come along, there will be new translation headaches (especially since DX12 is closer to the metal and may not have substitutes even in Vulkan).

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: If you use Microsoft products...

            @Charles 9 so what you mean is that it's not fair that people might have to choose between playing computer games and doing the right thing? That the right to consume always must come first?

            It's a computer game - not playing it won't kill anyone. But one day Microsoft 10 might do.

            1. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: If you use Microsoft products...

              I'm just saying that for many people the application comes before the OS, regardless of what anyone else may say or do. If you wish to make people change their OS, you have to solve the application problem first, and while things like WINE and VMs provide some outs, it's not a 100% solution or even a 50% solution. Hardware can have Windows-only drivers and are too custom to be supported elsewhere (like industrial C&C interfaces--very custom stuff probably running on antiquated hardware: two strikes against virtualization). It's basically the Network Effect.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: If you use Microsoft products...

        If I may though, could I point out just a teensy weensy little caveat to your argument?

        Whilst I thank you for the upvote, there's no real caveat to be had any more. You've read about how Microsoft has behaved in the past, you've read how they're behaving now, and you're probably feeling - like many others - that the problem is getting worse and Microsoft is now simply uncontrollable. I'm sorry you've spent your time and money, but you've backed the wrong horse.

        Now if you're a majority shareholder you have some real power to do good, but you're probably not: you're probably similar to me - a basic consumer of software and services. So the only choice you have is to stop using Microsoft software. Because if fewer machines continue to phone home, maybe someone at Redmond who isn't operating on pure sociopathic hind-brain will notice and maybe they'll do something. No-one 'in charge' cares, so we 'little folk' have to act collectively.

        There really is no other way now.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just get rid of all the different versions of Windows on those computers and install a robust, tested and friendly OS such as Xubuntu or Mint

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      And if there's a piece of software they need that is Windows only and doesn't play nice with WINE or VMs?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "and install a robust, tested and friendly OS such as Xubuntu or Mint"

      But Linux OSs usually have many times more security patches than Windows - how does that help with the original issue of patch bandwidth use??

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microscam

    Having used MS Windows from 3.1 up to 7 which is now currently installed in the machines that I am responsible for, I've taken the liberty of installing Linux Mint as a dual-boot option in two of them. A third machine finally had its 7yo OCZ Vertex OS SSD die suddenly just over a week ago and now has a HDD in its place... one with a large unpartitioned area ready for whatever Linux distribution I see fit.

    Since I tinker with hardware, I was adamantly vocal against XP's product activation crap back in the day, and was fortunately able to secure a legitimate copy without that nonsense. It had no real effect on actual piracy that I could tell.

    I also didn't care much for x64 versions requiring signed drivers and upsetting the hardware ecosystem here. The only thing it did for system security was make it harder for the rightful owner to regain control of things.

    I'm fed up. I no longer see MS as a way forward and more of a hindrance, and the sooner they carelessly f*ck it all up for the wrong crowd of people and get burnt to a crisp the better.

  26. whoseyourdaddy
    Linux

    As much as the CAD tools I depend on rely on Windoze (the same software used by Apple, Dell, Google, Oracle, Microsoft), Microsoft needs to clean up the worldwide malware crisis they have profited handsomely from.

    As long as I can get my work done, upgrade ahoy!

  27. PaulVD
    Go

    Maybe I missed it...

    But I didn't notice anyone saying they had sent a few bucks to help this outfit with their bandwidth needs in protecting wildlife in one of the most godforsaken parts of the world. (And the various people with guns are variously Muslims, Christians, and Animists; poaching and murdering game wardens is an all-faiths activity there.)

    So, for the record, they have $50 from me. Any other takers? Just follow the link in the story.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Flame

      I went there as well

      And donated.

      And noticed that Generosity creams $7.50 for the privilege of you handing money over in an Internet transaction.

      That's more than my bank does.

      Generosity : generously helping themselves on other people's misery.

  28. Tom 7 Silver badge

    Windows 10?

    Thats not a 10 its IO - shit loads of it.

  29. bjr

    Should be running CentOS or some other LTS Linux

    They have no business running WIndows in circumstances like that, they should be running a long term supported Linux like CentOS which will never do things behind their backs like Windows. Updates could be handled entirely with DVDs or USB sticks.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Should be running CentOS or some other LTS Linux

      Have you ever given thought to the possibility their key software may be Windows-ONLY? Meaning they CAN'T jump?

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Should be running CentOS or some other LTS Linux

        Black men can't jump?

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The problem is that psycho-MS don't give a f***.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Probably because lots of people are locked into Windows-only software with no viable substitutes.

  31. Sean Timarco Baggaley

    Oh for...

    From the original article:

    "I just came here recently to act as their pilot but have IT skills as well. The guy who set these PCs up didn't know how to prevent it, or set a metered connection. I am completely livid."

    What heir to the throne to the Kingdom of Idiot chose to deploy a CONSUMER version of Windows to people operating in what is effectively a fucking war zone?

    And why should an operating system primarily aimed at people who run solitaire, some version of Office, and/or Call of War: Shooty Shooty Bang Bang 7 should arrive out of the box by default with settings to make it suitable for mission-critical situations such as the one described in the article?

    It's behaving exactly as it bloody should be! What the hell else do you expect? Mind-reading features? Microsoft certainly haven't produced an ad where some suspiciously handsome chap with a large gun asks Cortana to "Activate Going For A Ride In an old Toyota Hi-Ace with a BFG in the Back Mode".

    Do you (and the article's alleged "writer") seriously expect a simple, one-button setting during the installation process asking if your PC is in a glorified hut prone to intrusions of gunfire and shrapnel?

    How many extreme edge cases like these are Microsoft supposed to allow for out of the box?

    Is this PC being used to control a surgical robot? [ ]

    Is this PC being used to manage sensitive patient records in a hospital? [ ]

    Is this PC being used to operate ICBMs in a nuclear submarine? [ ]

    Seriously people, how hard is it to use the right damned tool for the job? Stop blaming others for your own mistakes.

    1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

      Re: Oh for...

      > Seriously people, how hard is it to use the right damned tool for the job?

      People buy computers to run applications, not operating systems. This particular system was chosen because the applications were the 'right tool for the job'. The fact that it ran on Windows, and possibly only on Windows, was neutral _at_the_time_it_was_chosen_.

      Microsoft _changed_ the behaviour of Windows 7 and 8 into being an aggressive and disruptive network capacity consumer. Once it has updated itself to 10 it will continue to use more network capacity as it reports telemetry back to base, sucks in updates (which can't be disabled) and spews ads.

      Windows is no longer the 'right tool for the job' for _anything_ and this is entirely the fault of Microsoft.

    2. LDS Silver badge

      Re: Oh for...

      Yeah, we're in the middle of an African forest, with some guerrilla - Islamic or not - around, and also other armed people killing animals for profit, and bipeds also if they try to interfere, please, send your enterprise licensing rep here so we can discuss how to buy some "non consumer" licenses (we believed "Pro" meant Professional, but it looks it means Problems...), next flight of our just repaired plane - nothing big, just a rough landing - is scheduled for next Wednesday... ah, don't forget your own satellite link, ours is a bit overused, after your update...

    3. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: Oh for...

      When you put it like that, I suppose it's clear that Windows is basically useless, except for gaming.

      I guess you, and MS, has missed the part where computing has been commoditised and no-one really cares what law-wrangling bull is in the EULA.

      Now when MS has made it clear that the EULA is the high and mighty's commandments, we shall all just bugger off to Linux land and leave MS to kneel at their own altar, all alone.

  32. Cameron Colley

    Simple answer: Don't use Windows.

    Oh, but, but I can't do x, y or z on Linux. Well, then, you can't do x y or z, can you?

    If you bought Windows you have absolutely no right to moan about Microsoft's behaviour. Well, I suppose if you've been locked in a basement for the past two decades you may have an excuse.

    Seriously, we've known for ever that Microsoft is a criminal organisation.

    Also, in regards to this particular story, the EULA is pretty damned specific that the OS should not be used where lives are at steak. So, unless a specific agreement was in place with Microsoft then the fault lies with the person using Windows for this task. It could not be any more clear that Microsoft do not want Windows used in these situations because they realise it's not suitable.

    Please, everyone, actually stop and think about why you're using Windows and the crimes you're helping fund.

    And, again, "but, but I can't run this game on anything but Windows" just means you can't run that game. The price for running Windows has always been that one gives up freedom and sponsors crime.

    Every single time Microsoft does something wrong people like myself point out that they're up to no good and every single time the use of Microsoft software is defended and, in the past, people have even been accused of wearing tinfoil hats for criticism of Microsoft.

    So, nothing will change here and people will continue to buy Microsoft products because they need to. So why the hell are so many people moaning again?

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: Simple answer: Don't use Windows.

      "If you bought Windows you have absolutely no right to moan about Microsoft's behaviour."

      Yes, you do!

      If MS is altering what I payed for into something very different, I have every right to complain.

      When they do his against people's will, pushing changes down their throats using trickery, people have cause to fight back using legal action.

      They are doing this to old products -not to improve the old product to help their users, but to burn the old products to the ground while forcing users into something they didn't ask for.

      Despicable behaviour.

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        Re: Simple answer: Don't use Windows.

        An upvote for your obvious point they are changing the deal.

        But, no you don't have any right to complain as its all covered by the EULA you agreed to by using Windows. You know, all those nasty little details you either did not read or though no company in its right mind would exploit...

        1. Cameron Colley

          Re: Simple answer: Don't use Windows.

          Indeed, it's all in the EULA, has always been in the EULA and only morons don't realise that.

          Really, stop paying MS to cause people issues. It's frightening how many people think they can "buy a copy of Windows" or "Buy Windows Server" in this day and age. It has been at least 5 years since MS told their licensees to kindly go fuck themselves but, it seems, nobody paid any attention.

          You have no right to moan when you pay a criminal organisation money to help it threaten fellow customers and random software developers and you know you're doing it.

    2. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Simple answer: Don't use Windows.

      "And, again, "but, but I can't run this game on anything but Windows" just means you can't run that game. The price for running Windows has always been that one gives up freedom and sponsors crime."

      Well, then, if you expect people to stop sponsoring "a criminal organization" as you put it, you need to put forth some alternative options. Telling people to stop committing crime is a waste of breath if there are no honest options available.

      1. Cameron Colley

        Re: Simple answer: Don't use Windows.

        Alternatives? As I said -- if you can't do it without Microsoft you can't do it. Unless, of course, you're happy with their EULA and their right to change the terms every time they feel like it.

        If you're an IT purchasing manager than makes your job almost untenable but, then, I doubt you attained that role over 15 years ago so you're already happy with Microsoft's behaviour.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Simple answer: Don't use Windows.

          So you're basically saying, "Live with it." As evidenced by the dominance of Windows, especially in the consumer sphere, lots of people apparently already do, thank you very much. If that means people are stupid, then people are stupid. After all, the people most likely to call cigarettes "cancer sticks" are the smokers, so that means you can't win.

          We'll live with it. You can live with it, too. After all, You Can't Fix Stupid.

  33. W.O.Frobozz

    I repeat: why the hell is this legal? Why is Microsoft allowed to get away with this? The disasters of the Win10 virus are just starting...my super-high-tech dentist has his advanced dentist chair running off Windows. I saw the "upgrade" icon on the screen. Wanna bet Win10 won't work with his highly-specific equipment? Same deal at my vet's. I don't want to see what's on-screen in my local hospital.

  34. ronplatt

    Preventable.

    This could be prevented by replacing the operating systems of donated computers with suitable open source alternatives that allow greater user control. For example, Ubuntu is freely available, regularly maintained, and was conceived based on African values. Why not?

    In addition to the great consumption of data during the update, Windows 10 will continue to consume precious data bandwidth with the constant information logging that has been built into the operating system.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Preventable.

      "This could be prevented by replacing the operating systems of donated computers with suitable open source alternatives that allow greater user control. For example, Ubuntu is freely available, regularly maintained, and was conceived based on African values. Why not?"

      Probably because they need specific applications to work...Windows-ONLY applications. Unless you can deliver the total package (OS AND Applications), you won't be able to get people to jump ship.

  35. Ramon Zarat

    head roll

    Someone's head must roll over this at M$.

  36. evlncrn8

    "I just came here recently to act as their pilot but have IT skills as well."

    ...

    Sadly, an unexpectedly rough landing has put the aircraft out of action and the group is now trying to raise the funds to get a new one.

    -------------

    i fking hope his IT skills are better tha his pilot skills

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. LDS Silver badge

      Maybe he came to replace the rough-landed pilot...

  37. blokedownthepub
    Flame

    I've lost important data

    I've lost financial data* due to the crappy power management drivers with Windows 10. My laptop just dies instead of sleeping when I close the lid, corrupting open documents or databases.

    Lenovo haven't developed Windows 10 drivers for my model (and there's no reason why they should), the upgrade is forced, and I'm stuck with the MS buggy drivers which kill the power, trashing documents.

    My expensive high-spec laptop is now less reliable and useful than it was with Win8.

    * (I got it back, thanks to Carbonite).

    1. King Jack
      Joke

      Re: I've lost important data

      Just ask M$ for a copy, I'm sure they have already slurped it.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: I've lost important data

        The above is accompanied by cackling laughter from The Beast.

  38. Merlinski

    Stop auto updates and kill updates KB2952664, KB2976978 and KB3035583. Keep checking and keep killing.

    Never let microsoft auto anything on your machine or you will just get nagged.

  39. NanoMeter

    Got a Postit-note hanging on my monitor:

    Do not install:

    kb3123862

    kb3035583

  40. Dave 15

    I would say that this is a VIRUS

    Installing itself on your machine without you wanting it? Nagging and demanding from you all over the screen effectively blackmailing you?

    Yup, it is a virus... a nasty corpulent virus. I have one laptop at home where it keeps coming up and I can't get shot of it. Fortunately all others have the update function off by default.

    Hate MS? Yup, the only problem is who else... Apple are just plain too expensive and the last time I tried Linux it claimed my graphics monitor was a text one and the support from the Linux community was to tell me what an idiot I was and obviously the monitor (that had been displaying graphics for over 5 years) was a text monitor and I knew so little they were surprised I knew how to operate the on switch.

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