back to article Microsoft won't back down from Windows 10 nagware 'trick'

Microsoft is hurt and disappointed that people would think it was trying to “trick” them with a confusing Windows 10 upgrade dialog that scheduled an upgrade without users explicitly agreeing to do so. Redmond recently created a new Windows 10 nagware reminder that presented a dialog asking you to install the OS. But if users …

  1. Ralph B

    My opinion on this?

    My opinion on this.

    1. robidy

      Re: My opinion on this?

      Ralph, you post doesn't do the link justice.

      You should clarify that the link is to a remarkably helpful tool that will stop the nagware, prevent inadvertent deployment of Windows 10 by desktop users, recover lost disk space and hopefully prevent mobile users busting their data limits downloading a large Windows 10 installer.

      It has a helpful command line interface for use in enterprise environments which is vital for smooth and effective deployment.

      It will also clear up gigabytes of disk space lost when GWX installs, some people have claimed it's freed up over 10GB!

      PS. I have no connection with the author.

      PPS. User beware - take the usual precautions before deploying any application...test it!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: My opinion on this?

        "It will also clear up gigabytes of disk space lost when GWX installs, some people have claimed it's freed up over 10GB!"

        Does this restore the gigabytes of bandwidth wasted on downloading this shite without your permission and refund you any fees incurred for inadvertantly going over your download limit?

        Bunch of utterly f*****g shameless weasels.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My opinion on this?

      OK, so I've run the software and restarted, and the nagware is gone from my system tray but the Windows 10 update is still in the Control Panel Windows Update and still a default selection. Was I just expecting too much?

      1. Ralph B

        Re: My opinion on this?

        > Was I just expecting too much?

        Never10 doesn't/can't stop the Windows Update from downloading the Control Panel Windows Update. It just stops the update from being used - via Microsoft's official group policy settings.

        1. Mikel

          Re: My opinion on this?

          The meaning of the policy settings will be changed.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Gates Horns

            Re: My opinion on this?

            The meaning of the policy setting will NOT change. The meaning of the policy setting has never changed. Dismissing a dialogue has always initiated an unwanted complete system "upgrade." Trustedtruthyness is our ally. Microsoft has always been at war with our victims customers. DisableOSUpgrade=1 has always meant "don't upgrade beyond Windows™ X®." Move along...

    3. Peter 26

      Re: My opinion on this?

      Wow that sites a blast from the past.

      Shield's Up!

    4. Zippy's Sausage Factory

      Re: My opinion on this?

      I think I'll stick with Windows 10 When I Want It thanks.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: My opinion on this?

        ... or GWX Control Panel which can remove the update if it's started.

        1. Jeffrey Nonken Silver badge

          Re: My opinion on this?

          MY opinion on this

      2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      3. paulc
        Mushroom

        Re: My opinion on this?

        I think I'll stick with Windows 10 When I Want It thanks.

        I really, really hate websites that want your email address in order to download something...

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My opinion on this?

      Hmm, this is nothing more than a tool to automate the creation/destruction of 2 registry keys.

      Surrounded (as typical for GRC) with a great deal of fanfare, like its some major achievement.

      He moans about the file size being 56k, well, here you go, in 244 bytes.

      Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

      [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx]

      "DisableGwx"=dword:00000001

      [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]

      "DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001

      Because all the program does is create or delete those 2 keys.

      That's it.. And this is new information how exactly?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: My opinion on this?

        Check out here:

        GRC has no "security researchers". It's practically a one-man operation, and Gibson is just a loud-mouthed twit with no security experience. He's been widely denounced by actual security experts. Just see the controversy around his Windows XP SOCK_RAW and WMF bug/Windows backdoor claims. And his most popular work, the "SpinRite" app, is just a load of snake-oil he's managed to con a decent number of people into paying for...

        The old grcsucks.com is gone, but there are still several sites dedicated to exposing his fraud, mistakes and lies over the years:

        http://attrition.org/errata/charlatan/steve_gibson/

        http://radsoft.net/news/roundups/grc/

        Reply

        1. Craig Chambers

          Re: My opinion on this?

          Attrition.org... That really is a blast from the past!

        2. Not That Andrew

          Re: My opinion on this?

          You are right, he's basically a wannabe McAffee and like McAffee occasionally amusing, but not to be taken seriously or trusted with anything potentially dangerous.

          Rather use something like GWX Control Panel, IMO any of the others are much more effective than Gibson's attempt to jump on the anti Windows 10 bandwagon.

      2. Adam JC

        Re: My opinion on this?

        What about cleaning up the ~10GB of shite it's decided to download in the background?

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge

          Re: My opinion on this?

          If this app installed malware I bet the malware would be better than the windows 10 installed otherwise.

          As for spinrite, I used it once at a customers premises. 80gb hard drive, clicking away. Would eventually boot into windows given a few hours. spinrite managed to at least mark huge chunks as "bad" so that the drive wouldn't go near the clicking portions so the drive could be booted and data copied off (at the time neither ghost nor PING would clone the disk so it was last ditch). apart from that ive had little experience with it but wondered how it actually worked as I thought the drive firmware would stop you messing with raw data.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My opinion on this?

      Is the source available, so people can see it's not doing something shonky?

    7. RayStantz

      Re: My opinion on this?

      Awwww Microsofts feelings are hurt.... I DOUBT IT!!!

      It doesn't take a genius or even someone with a degrees in social behavior or even Engineering to point out how right out horrible an idea this is to FORCE people to download Windows 10, this is NOTHING to do with if its a good program or not, it has all to do with people and their right to choose as well as the damage this has done by ignorantly having the program install without even the knowledge of the owner of the computer even being aware of it if they happen to not be around the computer at the time it installs.

      The damage it has done to some computers, the loss of personal information and money its caused not to mention how it interrupted people at work for a long period of time and more not even mentioning the stress shows how this is by no means something "good" Microsoft was doing for their customers, it was them forcing their will on people as they saw fit, something that is as close to digital rape as one can get in my opinion and to add to the insult they act like they know better then we do, for months they asked people if they want to upgrade to windows 10, harassing them with this like its an ad and people were fully aware of the choice to upgrade or not and so at this point the people who didn't were all saying NO!!! So how is this justified??? HOW!!! You have no way to opt out unless you turn off the updates MAYBE and/or go to some other outside application like i did to stop it from being forced on my system!!

      So Microsoft is "hurt" BULL, its a simple case of them not caring and forcing others but in this case its caused damage and in my opinion, they are liable, class action sounds good about now!

      Also, i hear a lot of good things about Apple!

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: My opinion on this?

        Awwww Microsofts feelings are hurt.... I DOUBT IT!!!

        Sure they are, just like the advertisers' feeling are hurt that we use adblockers, or the malware writers' feelings are hurt because we won't respond to their attempts, or Microsoft Techs' feelings are hurt because we won't allow them to get rid of all the viruses on our computers.

        Oh wait.. Hurt=Bottom Line... Tough.. hurt all you want, you bastards.

    8. J__M__M

      Re: My opinion on this?

      The problem is, your opinion does not matter anymore. MS flat out sucks it.

    9. Winters

      Re: My opinion on this?

      Yup! I use http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ but I doubt there is much difference in their functionality: Destroy 10!

  2. N2 Silver badge

    so

    You'll have noticed that Microsoft didn't say it would re-write the app so that closing the app is taken as a “no”, as happens for just about every other dialog Windows offers.

    Thus failing Microsofts own 'Windows Certification' then?

    1. Ralph B

      Re: so

      > Thus failing Microsofts own 'Windows Certification' then?

      He's right, you know.

      [quote]

      The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK.

      [/quote]

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: so Desperation

        Seems they are rather desperate

        1. Mikel

          Re: so Desperation

          Desperation. This tells us their secret. This level of desperation can only be fuelled by fear. Their analysis of the situation must be that if they don't successfully migrate everyone to W10 they are doomed.

          And with that I do agree. The end is nigh for them.

          1. Charles Pearmain

            Re: so Desperation

            Well, their marketing geniuses talked them into screwing everyone's desktops up with a GUI designed to drive phones. Then MS were surprised to discover that pretty much everyone hated the phones so much that they're now pulling out of the market.

            I'd say yes, they must be getting even more bloody desperate than after the Windows 8 debacle.

            1. mstreet

              Re: so Desperation

              I think it was more a case of everyone hating Microsoft than their phones. The anti-windows phone movement has had me baffled from the start. I had a Win 8 phone (Lumia 1050) for 2 years, and it was frankly, the best phone OS I've used. The easiest to read, best reception, best integration with the corporate email system etc.The only real problem I had with it, was that it seemed engineered to fall out of the users hand. A colleague with a Nokia 750 pretty much echos the same impressions.

              This is coming from someone who has entirely purged all their computers of Windows in the last year and a half, and who has become as bad as an ex-smoker in telling people how insidious Microsoft has become. But I'll give credit were it is due, and I think MS made a good phone OS. If not for the ineptness of their marketing department, they wouldn't have had to scrap the project.

              The only conclusion I can come up with in regard to the negativity, is that most people who like to bash the device, have never actually used one, and are talking out of their asses.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: so Desperation

                I think it was more a case of everyone hating Microsoft than their phones.

                You're seeing the exact kind of stupid shit that MS pulls when it feels the need to, and you're wondering why people avoided it on their phones? People have been putting up with MS's crap for years. Dislike of MS is ingrained into most everyone now and it's something MS have brought onto themselves.

                Their Windows phone could have been a *fantastic* OS for all most people know. But no-one cares, when it's MS behind it. (and rightfully so)

                Imagine how well an phone "Made by Oracle" would have gone. About the same probably.

              2. Alan_Peery

                Re: so Desperation

                I had a Windows phone, a fancy Lumia that was handed out to one lucky attendee at a Microsoft one day conference on Azure and other technologies.

                * I couldn't adjust the font size small enough in any of the apps. I prefer to read emails more than 30 words or so at a time.

                * Inflexible home screen layout compared to Android.

                * No ability to replace the keyboard functionality

                * Many of the apps I wanted were not available, and no corresponding work-alike available.

                *** Stitcher for podcasts

                *** Zinio for magazine reading

                *** Pocket for offline web page reading

                *** IMDB for movie lookup

                *** App for renting the city bikes available in London aka "Boris bikes"

                *** Weather Pro -- a weather app that breaks the next five days by 4 hour forecasts, very good for planning outdoor activities

                *** App for accessing the detailed Ordnance Survey maps for planning UK hikes

                *** Strava app for tracking bike rides

                *** App like FB Reader for reading public domain (out of copyright) books in .mobi and .epub formats

                * Commercial and market leading apps weren't as good as either the iOS or Android versions

                *** Kindle page formatting options not as flexible

                *** Google Photo style backup didn't seem to include a "photo album" feature up on the website viewer

                *** Skype was just weak overall

                *** Web browser lacked the "save image to file" function

                *** Map tool lacked verbal directions, ability to plan trips via public transport or bike

                As it's been a while since I used the Lumia, I might have forgotten a few things or the story might have improved. My feelings at the time were that anyone who was satisfied with the Lumia phones simply didn't know what was possible.

              3. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: so Desperation

                Even if it's an enjoyable phone OS, it's still Microsoft. Look at the very thing we're talking about here in this thread -- changing the little red X from "close dialog" into "upgrade my OS against my wishes". It's bad enough that garbage like that happens on PCs, but do we need it happening on our phones too? Maybe it didn't happen while you had your Windows phone, but what's to stop them? I'm sure many people said "Oh, Microsoft would never FORCE people to upgrade against their wishes or use trickery to make it happen", yet here we are. They want EVERYONE on 10, and that would eventually include those phones.

                Nah, I'll stick with Android until the Ubuntu phone is polished and ready for the masses.

              4. Alan Brown Silver badge

                Re: so Desperation

                》 I think it was more a case of everyone hating Microsoft than their phones.

                You clearly never used older windows phones. They're one of the few types of device that have left me screaming in frustration.

                The old WinCE was a very appropriate name.

          2. JLV Silver badge
            WTF?

            Re: so Desperation

            Agree with you, but it doesn't make that much sense.

            MS is a company with deep coffers and a serious likeability and hipness deficiency. It has a fair bit of strengths (at least to some people, if not our enlightened commentards).

            Death-marching everyone to Win 10 achieves what, exactly? They still need to support Win 7 and 8.x until those 2 have reached end of support. Sure, there are some operating gains from supporting say 90% of users on Win10 and 10% on 7/8. As opposed to say 50/50. Your support staff can be on new technologies rather than legacy cruft. Easier troubleshooting? (we know telemetry isn't used to listen to what customers prefer).

            But is it that much of a gain? At the cost of getting reviled day in, day out by a majority of IT influencers (argh, wish I could think of a better word here). And getting panned in general news coverage? Heck in 2 months, they can sell you what they're giving away for free now 8-/...

            It's not like Win Phone is going anywhere that it still justifies the clever Win 8.x screw-desktop-users-to-promote-touch strategy. That horse has bolted.

            What exactly is the point here? Is there so much value in the telemetry? I understand Google's hunger for your data - they've built a successful business on it. But MS isn't as ad-focused. And Win 10 usage telemetry is hardly going to be very useful to sell you toothpaste or cars, is it?

            Why so much perseverance at what seems to be a self-defeating exercise that is steadily driving down public perception? What is the rational reason for it? Or is it just misplaced hubris and stubbornness?

            WTF is for MS, not the OP's post.

            1. Mark 85 Silver badge

              Re: so Desperation

              But MS isn't as ad-focused. And Win 10 usage telemetry is hardly going to be very useful to sell you toothpaste or cars, is it?

              I think that needs to be suffixed with a "yet". It does seem to be coming with the Software (or OS) as a Service model. "Pay us or get ads". I'm hearing from users that they do get ads. Not many yet, but they pop up on the desktop and in some apps.

            2. Someone Else Silver badge
              Big Brother

              @JLV -- Re: so Desperation

              What exactly is the point here? Is there so much value in the telemetry? I understand Google's hunger for your data - they've built a successful business on it. But MS isn't as ad-focused. And Win 10 usage telemetry is hardly going to be very useful to sell you toothpaste or cars, is it?

              Why do you assume that Micros~1 is going to sell that telemetry data to advertisers?

            3. This post has been deleted by its author

            4. Sir_Hops_A_Lot

              Re: so Desperation

              The reason is probably the reason that got Balmer fired: the App Gap.

              Google, Amazon and Apple have been slaughtering MS in the Apps market and their push into the phone market was too little, too late. So MS turned to the captive Windows user base to garner a piece of the pie...frantically and ineptly.

      2. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Re: so

        Total asshattery. "We decided to screw you over and we meant it".

        What's galling is that Windows 10 is rather better than Windows 8 (and 8.1). Not that this is much of an achievement.

        1. Alumoi

          Re: so

          Better than Win8? Maybe, but still sucks big time comparing to Win7.

          1. Danny 14 Silver badge

            Re: so

            We have a couple of windows 10 laptops, they came with windows 10 on them and our 8.1 image didn't like the laptop.

            Rest of the network is 7, laptops use 8.1 purely for the fact you can add WIFI from the ctrl-alt-del screen (and thus VPN in from CTRL-ALT-DEL) rather than getting a user to cache their logon first before going home and adding their WIFI.

          2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

            Re: so

            Better than Win8? Maybe, but still sucks big time comparing to Win7.

            I much preferred MSWin 2000

      3. TRT Silver badge

        Re: so

        It's all in the way you ask the question.

        "Is there a possibility that you do not wish to not upgrade to upgrade and remain at the downgrade of the new upgrade?"

        1. Anonymous Custard Silver badge

          Re: so

          But only if said without any pause or hesitation in your finest Nigel Hawthorne voice...

      4. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: so

        > Thus failing Microsofts own 'Windows Certification' then?

        He's right, you know.

        [quote]

        The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK.

        [/quote]

        I am not sure he is, even though I would class it as a dubious move.

        This is not the normal nagware to install Windows 10 but appears to be the notification that it will be installed.

        There is no "Cancel" button, only a link to change the installation date or abort the installation.

        Closing the form is accepting things 'as they are'.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge
          Thumb Down

          Re: so

          If you further read the UI guidelines...

          When assigning order, assume that users display dialog boxes for their intended purpose; so, for example, users display choice dialogs to make choices, not to review and click Cancel.

          Use Cancel or Close for negative commit buttons instead of specific responses to the main instruction. Quite often users realize that they don't want to perform a task once they see a dialog box. If Cancel or Close were relabeled to specific responses, users would have to carefully read all the commit buttons to determine how to cancel.

          Provide a Cancel button to let users explicitly abandon changes. Dialog boxes need a clear exit point. Don't depend on users finding the Close button on the title bar.

          Etc... etc...

          Since when does a dialog that opens and immediately changes data (itself a pretty dubious practice), accept that change on hitting close or cancel? At the very most it should pop up a modal dialog and ask if you are sure you want to leave without saving changes.

          1. Mpeler
            Mushroom

            Re: so

            Good points. Two things come to mind:

            Being Micro$oft means never having to say you're sorry.

            and, with regard to the window close = OK,

            "Heads, we win; Tails, you lose"...

            If Microsucks (and Mucked-up-media/Adobe) actually adhered to good coding practices, there'd never be a need for "Patch Tuesdays"...

        2. Tchou
          Unhappy

          Re: so

          Am I the only poor soul who have to endure Windows 10 fans at work?

          I work in a dev shop, most of my colleagues are software engineers.

      5. Hans 1 Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: so

        Everybody, be polite, but express your feelings in the comments on msdn of this page (Click "This page was not helpful")... if there are enough comments, they might end up reading some ;-)

      6. MrHinsh

        Re: so

        And clicking the X does exactly what a cancel or close button would do on every other dialog box. It cancels or stops the current operation.

        Since the current operation is "giving the option to re-schedule the update" then it does indeed cancel/stop that operation. If the purpose of this window was to install the update then cancel would stop/dismiss the update and it would not happen.

        This is completely consistent with the existing user experience of all dialog boxes in Windows.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: so @MrHinsh

          Welcome brand new commentor!

          Yes the logic you express is true MS sleight of hand logic, based on the premise that because a user has Windows updates enabled they have consented to the GWX update being automatically scheduled in the first place.

          If MS really were giving users a choice they would do as they do in Outlook and clearly give users a "Decline upgrade" button alongside and with equal prominence as the "Upgrade Now", "Upgrade Tonight" and "Ok" buttons.

          The laugh about all this is that ALL Win10 users have consented to MS doing the equivalent of GWX to them whenever MS wish, so if MS decide to replace the current version of Win10 with a version of W95, rebranded as Win10 build 95 they have no choice but to accept it! Given the long-term support release cycle of Win10, we can expect this type of event to happen...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: so

      Microsoft Marketing / Terry Myerson :

      Nothing like Microsoft's own documentation to bring a Company down and cause it to grovel out of a situation. (One rule for them, another rule for the rest of us)

      You'll be changing that Dialog Box pronto then, to avoid a Class Action Lawsuit? Thought so.

      Great find (The Windows Certification Documentation)...Thank you.

      For all the folk with limited eyesight, dexterity problems, or other disabilities that have put up with the MS shit for months now. Shame on you Microsoft, we have laws against this type of inequality.

    3. Sebastian A

      Re: so

      One downvote from a Microsoft shill. I wish you could see who up- or down-voted anything just so you could work out whose pocket they're in easily.

  3. PleebSmasher
    Windows

    my take on this?

    It's all very well and good. Nothing wrong with it at all. Please upvote me, Redmondbot.

  4. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Mushroom

    don't run windows update until august 1

    I'll just make sure KB3035583 is NOT installed on any windows 7 computer (or development VM), put windows update into "completely manual" mode, and NOT! RUN! UPDATE! until after August 1.

    If that means NOT surfing the web from that particular windows computer or VM, so be it. Besides, I do my web surfing from Linux and FreeBSD, and practice "safe surfing", disabling flash, running noscript, etc.. And I *NEVER* go online using a login with 'admin' privileges. EVAR.

    So thanks, Microsoft, for making windows update *UNUSABLE* for the next couple of months or so, and I hope you *KEEP* *YOUR* *PROMISE* to *NOT* "upgrade" (read: screw up) any of my computers after August 1.

    Don't forget, the Windows 7 EULA *NEVER* gave Microsoft permission to FORCE! UPGRADES! (or updates for that matter).

    1. AlbertH

      Re: don't run windows update until august 1

      Don't forget, the Windows 7 EULA *NEVER* gave Microsoft permission to FORCE! UPGRADES! (or updates for that matter).

      Actually, their EULA allows them to do anything they choose to your Windoze install. Read carefully - they retain ownership of the software. You're just leasing it!

      1. DougS Silver badge

        Re: don't run windows update until august 1

        You're assuming this won't continue after the deadline for free Windows 10 has expired. They might "helpfully" continue to try to force installs they've identified as existing prior to the date to get their free update forever.

        1. Anonymous Custard Silver badge

          Re: don't run windows update until august 1

          Or force an install and then charge for it?

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: don't run windows update until august 1

        Re: Actually, their EULA allows them to do anything they choose

        Yes people forget that MS changed the EULA between XP and Vista/7...

      3. Fluffy Cactus

        Re: don't run windows update until august 1

        Dear AlbertH,

        Your landlord owns your apartment, your just renting/leasing it. But over time laws were passed that told the landlord that despite owning the apartment, he was not allowed to come in unannounced, especially not between 8pm and 6am. These laws were not made to make the landlord happy, but because landlords turned out to be "overbearing meanspirited asses". That's your landlord is not allowed to

        break your windows, not allowed to turn off your water and electricity, not allowed to flood your basement

        or blow up your stove. Right? Of course I am right.

        Your car, you might just be leasing it, but as long as you pay the monthly payments, is the lessor allowed to rummage through your trunk without your knowledge and permission? Hardly. Never. Nowhere.

        I think it is time that laws against destructive software behavior be passed. Enough already. In the US, it works like this: Microsoft, I am guessing, supports each elected congress-person's campaign with something like $30,000 per each. For this money, it appears that the elected officials are supposed to look the other way. Well, thus, if everyone of these loyal elected officials is provided with, e.g. $40,000 per each, and a simply request to stop Microsoft's evil behavior, then that's what it takes. 435 congress members and 100 senators - that makes 535. 535 x $40,000 = $21,400,000. So, for only $21 meeellion and 400,000 we could make Microsoft behave like normal human beings.

        The US full-time working population is currently 122,740,000.

        $21,400,000 / 122,740,000 = 0.17. So, in theory, one could accomplish this by collecting 17 cents from

        every working stiff in the US and sending the total, with easy to follow instructions, down to Washington DC. One could also do this by getting $1.70 from 10%, or $17 from 1% of the same population.

        Just think about this.

        I don't know how it works in Great Britain, or Europe, but somehow I feel that money tends to talk

        everywhere.

    2. Mpeler
      Paris Hilton

      Re: don't run windows update until august 1

      You didn't say what year...

  5. hplasm Silver badge
    Facepalm

    MS couldn't even jump the shark properly-

    without getting eaten.

    And people still give them money.

    Enablers.

    I know winX is free. So is the clap- but easier to avoid.

    1. frank ly Silver badge

      Re: MS couldn't even jump the shark properly-

      I always use a condom when I'm surfing the internet. No problems so far.

      1. Gray
        Trollface

        Re: MS couldn't even jump the shark properly-

        Years back there was a cartoon for "Practice Safe Computing" showing hands poised over the keyboard with a condom on each finger. With Microsoft, that should be extended to include a condom over the modem, the wifi plug, and all cable sockets.

        1. David Nash Silver badge

          Re: MS couldn't even jump the shark properly-

          The "wifi plug"?

        2. Mpeler
          Pirate

          Re: MS couldn't even jump the shark properly-

          What we need is a condom over Microsoft itself, i.e. the entire Redmond campus (and others, if needed).

          Just get Christo (that fellow who'd wrap up buildings in plastic wrap) or someone to cover M$. Maybe use heatshrink film, to make sure it sticks (won't need any "update", har, harr)...

          1. Danny 14 Silver badge

            Re: MS couldn't even jump the shark properly-

            stuff the condom, take M$ to be spayed. It will stop more horrid offspring.

          2. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: MS couldn't even jump the shark properly-

            > What we need is a condom over Microsoft itself, i.e. the entire Redmond campus (and others, if needed).

            As long as it's gas-tight this should achieve the desired effect fairly quickly.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: MS couldn't even jump the shark properly-

        You should probably double bag it when browsing with windows.

        1. Jedit
          Stop

          "You should probably double bag it when browsing with windows."

          Actually using two condoms is less safe than using one, as the friction between the two makes them more likely to break. [*]

          Properly advised and protected, you may now change this post to a GO icon.

          [*] Which is a shame. I always liked the old joke: why did the Irishman wear two condoms? To be sure, to be sure.

          1. TRT Silver badge

            Re: "You should probably double bag it when browsing with windows."

            Get Windows 10 control panel. The digital equivalent of "I promise I won't come inside you."

          2. Ian Emery Silver badge

            Re: "You should probably double bag it when browsing with windows."

            I prefer the letter in the "Playboy Advisor" section of the mag many years ago.

            Question 1/ I dont want to get a girl pregnant, what should I do?

            Question 2/ I suffer from premature ejaculation, what should I do??

            Question 3/ My penis is rather small, what should I do?

            And the Advisor replied....

            Answer 1/ Wear a condom.

            Answer 2/ Wear another condom.

            Answer 3/ Wear ANOTHER condom.

            Classic.

          3. Andrew Moore Silver badge

            Re: "You should probably double bag it when browsing with windows."

            I think the version of "double bagging" he is talking about is where you put a brown paper bag on your head, just in case the one on Windows 10 falls off...

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This morning I had the pleasure of hiding KB3035583 for the fourth time.

    I'm starting to think Windows 10 is that wasp when you're at a nice country pub enjoying a cold pint of cider on a warm sunny day minding your own business, it just won't f*ck off and very soon I'm going to spray it with a can Linux and watch it die the horrible slow death it's starting to deserve.

    1. GregC

      This morning I had the pleasure of hiding KB3035583 for the fourth time.

      Only 4 times? I've genuinely lost count of the number of times I've hidden that fucker - and cheers for the reminder, just did a check for updates and sure enough, there it was again. Now hidden. Again.

      Roll on August when it disappears for good. I just can't help thinking they will attempt to foist something else on us to "encourage" us to "upgrade".

      "Nice computer you've got there. Be a shame if something happened to it....."

      1. VinceH Silver badge

        Prompted by these two comments, I took a look - and unsurprisingly, yes, it's there again in my list of optional updates.

        Out of interest, I clicked the "More information" link to see what Microsoft actually says about it - and my conclusion is that their underhanded trickery extends to their documentation:

        Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1

        This update installs the Get Windows 10 app that helps users understand their Windows 10 upgrade options and device readiness. For more information about Windows 10, see Windows 10.

        Yes, it says it "helps users understand" their options - and not that it "takes away users' options and shafts them from behind when they're not expecting it"

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Joke

          @VinceH

          "Yes, it says it "helps users understand" their options - and not that it "takes away users' options and shafts them from behind when they're not expecting it""

          And it has done just that. The problem here is simply that you fail to understand that you don't have multiple options, there's only 1 intended: install Windows 10. That is your option, and once the install has finished you'd understand as much.

          1. VinceH Silver badge
            Unhappy

            Re: @VinceH

            @ShelLuser You might think that's a joke...

      2. VinceH Silver badge

        Also note KB2976978 is there again - that's Win10 related.

      3. Sporkinum

        Thanks for the reminder reminder. Checked updates a couple of days ago and nothing. Checked today, and there it was for the umpteenth time.

      4. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Roll on August when it disappears for good. I just can't help thinking they will attempt to foist something else on us to "encourage" us to "upgrade".

        You really think that August will be the end of it? I'm not convinced. Starting next update Tuesday, the patches are all rolled into one huge one. Can sort out and block the bits we don't want? It doesn't sound like it. It they've already pushed that evil KB your way, why would they stop?

        Trust and Microsoft should never be used in the same sentence, paragraph, or even story. Unless it's "mistrust". These fuckers are capable of anything to get their way.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      +1

      I tried negotiating with the wasp, even allowing it a couple of mouthfuls of cider.

      It was alright at first, but then it came back with friends, who were even greedier, and they all wanted a sip too. Soon, I began to wonder whose pint this was in the first place, and so I sprayed them all with Ubuntu and enjoyed it myself.

    3. SImon Hobson Silver badge

      > This morning I had the pleasure of hiding KB3035583 for the fourth time.

      That's because, as found by someone else, that Microsoft keep changing the version number of it - so that Windows Update treats it as a new update. This is not the update you've hidden before !

      MS are lucky I don't have the means to take them on, I am fairly certain that if someone could get them to court (in the UK) it would be game over with a criminal conviction (Computer Misuse Act). Telling Winblows Upbloat that "no I don't want this installing, and no I don't want to be shown it again" should be fairly indisputable as removing any assumed consent to installing this crap on the computer. That they go to such lengths to bypass such users stated intent is clear (IMO) premeditation for the criminal act of interfering with all these computers.

      Winbloat 10 may or may not be the best thing since sliced bread (personally I struggle not to toss the darn thing out of the window when having to use that fscking stupid UI), but given all the security chasms (aka sending unspecified stuff to unspecified people in unspecified locations for unspecified reasons) built in by design - I have no intention of using it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Big Brother

        The Microsoft Corporation has been untouchable since ~1999 when it became an intelligence asset in exchange for "The United States vs Microsoft" going away. The Computer Misuse Act is for us, not the 5eyes. Test it. You'll learn.

        1. Mpeler
          Holmes

          M$ and the TLAs

          Though I fear you're correct, somehow I cannot (without retching) put Micro$oft and intelligence in the same sentence (hurl...).

          I'm more inclined to believe that with their extensive (and ultimately expensive) telemetry and "connections", they've gathered enough info on enough people to get pretty much what they want. Bill Sr. was a lawyer, and it doesn't appear that the apple fell far from the tree, in Jr.'s case.

          Anyone remember HP NewWave and the lawsuits going around that? Some things never change...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Big Brother

            Re: M$ and the TLAs

            1999: U$ vs M$: When (and why) MSFT slipped the _NSAKEY into "your" computer ;)

          2. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: M$ and the TLAs

            Anyone remember HP NewWave

            Thanks for the reminder of just how old the fundamental UI concepts embedded in Win10 are (ie. they go right back to MS-DOS) and how MS (and others) have largely ignored different approaches, such as that explored by NewWave and the cancelled Longhorn development project (not the same as the version of Windows carrying the development name 'Longhorn' that was released as Vista).

    4. IsJustabloke
      Meh

      The problem with killing that wasp is that a couple of his mates *will* show up shortly afterwards. I guess we're seeing that already with the win 10 upgrade...

      I don't really mind TBH, so far I've managed to avoid teh various nags screens / stealth downloads.

  7. depicus

    We'll laugh at this in years to come as a good indicator of Microsofts decline from relevance. Hopefully it will now be tagged as the malware it is.

    1. King Jack
      Big Brother

      N.W.O.

      Sadly nothing will happen to Microsoft over this. Governments want them to infect as many computers as possible for the new world order of spying to get a real foot hold. That is why there are no law suits.

      This is blatant computer misuse but strangely the enforcers remain silent.

      1. Philip Virgo

        Re: N.W.O.

        This was the day I decided I really must find out how to use Linux. Oh the hassle of weaning myself off Microsoft and Google. Will it be worth the effort?

        1. moiety

          Re: N.W.O.

          Will it be worth the effort?

          I believe so. Just download VirtualBox (free) and throw linux ISOs in there until you find one you like. That way you get to test it with minimal risk/commitment. I'm slooooowly moving over function by function.

          Linux Mint seems to be a popular choice of starting point.

          1. greifpad

            Re: N.W.O.

            it is worth the effort (leaving Windows behind that is, I am not ready for the hassle of leaving Google just yet). I have switched pretty much completely to Linux Mint, I keep Windows 7 for playing some games and for some Windows only CAD software that I use.

            I always dabbled with Linux on and off over the years but this Windows 10 nonsense is what has finally pushed me to (almost) completely switch. Nice work Microsoft Marketing Droids!

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: N.W.O.

            @ moiety

            Just tried your suggestion. All I get when running Mint 17.2 on VB 5 is a dark window with the Mint logo at the top and nothing else. How do you make it do anything?

            1. moiety

              Re: N.W.O.

              @AC - Try:

              If you get stuck on Mint screen:

              1.Shutdown machine

              2.Enter Mint machine settings (in Virtualbox)

              3.Enable PAE/NX at System/Processor section

              4.Restart machine

              Alternately, you could try my approach; which is to swear horribly; nuke the VM; and try it again, but this time reading the instructions properly. Or indeed, at all. Here's some in Instructables or YouTube flavours and even a bonus 7 Things to do after installing Linux Mint 17 (YouTube).

              I wasn't being sarcastic, by the way...I enjoy seeing how far my ninja senses can take me before I have to read the instructions. And haven't actually set anything on fire yet. With Linux.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: N.W.O.

                Thanks for your kind help. The problem was with VirtualBox. It wants the 32 bit version of Mint and I had the 64 bit one. I would have thought it could handle 64 bits as win 7 and i5 processor are 64 bit.

                Still one step closer to jumping.

                1. moiety

                  Re: N.W.O.

                  Really? I'm running 64-bit (MATE flavour) and it seems to be happy enough. I've given it 2 processors, 8Gb RAM and 50Gb HDD, so maybe it's a resources thing. Always dropped in without a problem for me.

                  I'm taking a much more cautious (not to mention lazier) path of moving over essential functions one at a time; finding a program I can work with and then moving onto the next thing until I get bored. Then Microsoft does something else to piss me off and I'll do a couple more. TBH, I could probably jump now without major damage.

                2. Chemist

                  Re: N.W.O.

                  "The problem was with VirtualBox. It wants the 32 bit version of Mint and I had the 64 bit one"

                  That's odd I've got a 64-bit Mint running on VBox under OpenSUSE 13.2 ( The .iso is linuxmint-17.2-kde-64bit.iso". I only installed it to settle a query but I don't remember having any problem.

                3. CFWhitman

                  Re: N.W.O.

                  "The problem was with VirtualBox. It wants the 32 bit version of Mint and I had the 64 bit one. I would have thought it could handle 64 bits as win 7 and i5 processor are 64 bit."

                  VirtualBox can handle a 64 bit virtual machine, as long as it's the 64 bit version of VirtualBox. That is, your hardware, your operating system, and your VirtualBox installation all have to be 64 bit.

                4. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: N.W.O.

                  Make sure virtualization options are enabled in your bios. If it can't find them enabled it will default to 32bit machines only.

        2. Grifter

          Re: N.W.O.

          >>This was the day I decided ...

          >> Will it be worth the effort?

          I'm not sure, it depends on how thoroughly pissed off you are; It's actually a lot harder for a windows poweruser to switch to Linux than it is for a complete newbie to learn because there's just so much ingrained expectance (of how things work). But fury with a bit of stubborness is exactly what will get you there.

          I don't know what process will be best for you, but I can tell you what I did on my day of fury - I decided that I'd either learn to use Linux (with no prior knowledge) or stop using computers altogether. I saved what little was of actual import, text files and pics mostly then blew away all windows and went into the deep end, I very specifically did not want any remaining windows anywhere, just in case I would feel something was too hard and come crawling back. I'd push through my ignorance and learn.

          I installed Debian, and probably fucked up the first install, so I installed it again. I did not go for a full install but rather a barebones install and then manually picked and chose what I wanted, I decided that for the first week I wouldn't even bother with X, I'd learn what I could about the console, and learn how to achieve in console what I'd normally expected to need a gui for.

          I learned about the programs in /bin and /usr/bin, and some of the sbin ones, I learned how to use man on the commands, or just add --help after each command, and I just built my knowledge from the ground up.

          After a week I installed X, I didn't understand X so I didn't want the packaging system to do it for me (to be fair, at that point it felt like the package system was far more frail especially when dealing with X), so I downloaded separate files from XFree86 and ran the shellscript to set it up. I don't advise using this method today for X ;)

          Anyway, turns out that Linux is pretty easy to learn, you need to shed some preconceived notions and stop expecting things to work like in win, the struggle lies in learning "how to learn".

          But once you have that down, how to search duck/google, once you get the basics under you, it becomes pretty straight forward, everything functions in a very logical manner so you can predict events and identify problems in any part of the chain on your own, and there are always many ways to solve a problem and only your own imagination is what stops you.

          Finally, for me it's been worth it, I have a lot of fun running Linux and I feel like I'm far more creative than I ever was when I ran win, it levelled up my skills in critical and logical thinking. The only problem I have with Linux now, is that there are more games on steam that I want to play, than I have time to play.

          1. JLV Silver badge

            Re: N.W.O.

            >shed some preconceived notions

            Not to mention that on Windows, it seems you have to shed preconceived notions of how to configure it from version to version.

            As an example, why did they ever change the control panel's "Add/Remove Programs" to " Programs and Features"? Or whatever the heck they renamed it. Or the Charms-only approach to Win 8.x wifi configuration that is such a change from XP/7.

            I am sure Linux grumblers will point out that various distributions change their configuration apps a fair bit. But a power user can usually fall back to command line configuration or at least use the command line to report system status. And, well, for better or worse, people who configure Linux are expected to be more flexible.

            OSX's System Preferences are also quite stable from release to release - that's something MS could learn from because the majority of its user base is the equivalent of Windows consumer-side users.

            Worth the effort? Depends on your needs, skills and expectations. But I will say that a Linux box, once configured, tends to be a lot easier to keep updated than Windows. Applications are generally transparently and centrally updated. You don't get a zillion startup programs all independently querying their respective vendors to see if a patch is available. Nor do you get the maybe/maybe not Windows patch reboot sing and dance. The home directory is not a confusing mix of user data + application stuff - you can copy it from machine to machine and be assured that things will work.

            The OS is a lot better, I think it mostly depends on whether you have the programs you want to use on Linux. And a VM can help there as well.

      2. HAL-9000

        Re: N.W.O.

        Have an upvote, shrewd tinfoily hatism, but apparently true much the same. Anyone else serving malware on that scale would be serving 13 life sentences in a supermax somewhere out back of the florida swamps, for sure.

      3. Geoffrey W Silver badge

        Re: N.W.O.

        @King Jack and lack of court cases

        There IS a court case currently in progress: Microsoft is fighting against the US government over access to users data. I know that isn't the kind of court case you had in mind but it illustrates that Microsoft aren't quite the company that you are suggesting they are and not totally in cahoots with the US government. So we're not quite at New World Order status yet. It really doesn't help to overstate the case.

        Still, really hate the tactics they have used with windows 10. Just had two people over the weekend with business on hold until I could stop an unwanted upgrade for them. It could all have been so great for them and they blew it.

    2. Captain Badmouth
      Windows

      Life imitates art.

      It's rather like watching a tv drama when you've got a good idea of how it might end ( or, rather, how you want it to end) but you keep looking out for a twist at the end ( and hoping there isn't one).

      All quite enthralling but don't take your eye off the updates in case there's another shitty trick in the M$ sewage outfall.

  8. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Mushroom

    The MS Seminal moment

    will go down in History. Future MBA Classes will study the repeated footgun that MS is doing to itself.

    Perhaps it is time for MS to be put down. After all, 'They shoot horses don't they?'

    Or just Nuke Redmond (my Dr Strangelove moment)

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  9. Dwarf Silver badge

    Lost trust

    Yet again Microsoft demonstrates why users have lost all trust with them

    If you have to resort to trying to trick users into installing your latest OS, then it shows how bad it is.

    There used to be a Microsoft principle of a consistent user interface, even that is now broken in their desperation to get users to switch

    No means no. We've all said that thousands of times before, but you still don't get it.

    1. VinceH Silver badge

      Re: Lost trust

      "No means no. We've all said that thousands of times before, but you still don't get it."

      Indeed so.

      I was at a client's office a few days ago speaking to one of their subbies, and he was telling me about his laptop. He originally installed Win10 to try it out, and after a little while using it decided he didn't like it, so rolled it back to Win7 - which is supposedly an option for a month(?) after installing Win10.

      More recently, it was unexpectedly installed again. Now, personally, I'd say installing it, trying it and then uninstalling it should be registered as a definite "No!" - a word Microsoft clearly doesn't understand.

      As to how it happened, I wondered if it was a case of the nagware popping up and stealing the focus as he was typing (which I've speculated was the case for other users I know), but his close icon issue may also have been the problem.

      And now it's on his system again, he says he can't find the option to roll it back. My initial speculation on this was that perhaps it (stupidly) based the roll-back option on the date it was first installed - that was much more than a month ago. On the other hand, with this close icon revelation, maybe they've just taken that option away as well.

      I was speaking to him on Monday. Since then, I've become aware of two and a half more unexpected updates - which I suspect might by now be three. Again, before I knew about this close icon twattishness my guess was the stolen input focus problem - but now I realise probably this.

      The 'half' was a case of the person saying he managed to deliberately crash the update when he saw it was going to happen - though I suspect he's probably only successfully delayed it until his next reboot or something.

  10. psychonaut

    I saw this yesterday

    Cheeky bastards. Also...i couldnt find the cancel button. Ended up running my script on it. Its fine now.

    1. msknight Silver badge

      Re: I saw this yesterday

      Better put those scripts in the start up.

      1. psychonaut

        Re: I saw this yesterday

        its one i wrote with another guy february time...still works...200 odd machines are innoculated against 10, and it hasnt been breached yet. i posted it lots of times previously.

  11. Novex
    Coat

    We'd expect commenters to have an opinion on this …

    Me? I haven't got an opinion on this at all...

    .

    .

    .

    ...not! ;-)

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The fact they won't change it tells you everything you need to know about what's wrong with windows 10. You don't own this OS. It owns you.

  13. Steve 114
    Thumb Down

    Upgrade losses

    I've moved several friends to Win10 on purpose (because they won't look after themselves) and not had problems, even on older kit. EXCEPT that the upgrade silently omits a random selection of older programs, that work perfectly well if reinstalled, or at worst - in compatibility mode. Go on, give us a tailored list of what's missing! As a result I can't recommend auto-upgrade to anyone.

    1. hplasm Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Upgrade losses

      "I've moved several ex-friends to Win10 on purpose..."

      FTFY...

    2. Philip Virgo

      Re: Upgrade losses

      Excellent point. That is why I stopped after moving one of my laptops to Windows 10. I also lost access to e-mail accounts hosted in the UK and has have yet to find out how to get them back.

  14. LDS Silver badge

    From Microsoft dialog boxes UI guidelines....

    "Clicking Cancel means abandon all changes, cancel the task, close the window, and return the environment to its previous state, leaving no side effect."

    "Provide a Cancel button to let users explicitly abandon changes. Dialog boxes need a clear exit point. Don't depend on users finding the Close button on the title bar."

    "Make sure the Close button on the title bar has the same effect as Cancel or Close."

    https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn742499%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

    It looks Nadella hired some friends from India used to perform online scams to write GWX.... someone who never read Microsoft own UI guidelines.

    1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: From Microsoft dialog boxes UI guidelines....

      Microsoft frequently violate their own guidelines.

      Of course, they are only guidelines and not rules but MS have spent a huge amount of research and development time testing and generating these guidelines. Only for other parts of MS to ignore and trash them. Office frequently ignores and violates them, Windows 8 (~metro) is so bad that it frequently violates elementary design and usability guides let alone Microsoft's more specific ones.

      It can't be an enjoyable department to work in.

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: From Microsoft dialog boxes UI guidelines....

        "It can't be an enjoyable department to work in."

        Why shouldn't they suffer too?

    2. Mpeler
      Mushroom

      Re: From Microsoft dialog boxes UI guidelines....

      Maybe those bogus M$ call centers ("Hello, we see you may have a virus...") ARE really Microsoft. One has to wonder, as they are always after money they didn't earn...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I did upgrade recently

    and guess what, after about 3 days the start menu refuses to appear.

    No amount of TLC has recovered it, so roll on day or so doing new clean install...

    Grr.

    And Microsoft, your design governance is clearly as flawed as your testing if you think a red X means OK. I don't think any OS I have ever used has pulled that one.

    1. Baldrickk Silver badge

      Re: I did upgrade recently

      I had this on my Father's tablet.

      There are purportedly 4 fixes for this. Th 4th being a re-install.

      The first two didn't work for me

      The third was to create a new user (local only user is fine) then reboot. Then remove the new user.

      - This worked.

      - It did happen again though, about a month later. *touch-wood* it hasn't / won't happen again.

      1. Mikel

        Re: I did upgrade recently

        That is quality software engineering right there.

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: I did upgrade recently

        Don't what the four fixes you saw, but for one of my clients uninstalling Dropbox solved the problem -seems Win10 doesn't like having both Dropbox and OneDrive installed...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I did upgrade recently

          seems Win10 doesn't like having both Dropbox and OneDrive installed...

          Well of course not… Dropbox is a competent competitor to OneDrive… silly!

  16. Mage Silver badge

    Alternative is'nt pain free

    I've used MS Windows, and supported it, sold, training etc 1991 to 2004

    User 1991 to 2014

    There has been some pain moving to Linux Mint + Mate Desktop + WINE, but for me it's far more functional than Win10 (old specialist programs, some have free alternatives on Linux, only costly or no alternative on Win10). OS X seems poorly supported for th stuff I do and a Mac costs too much. Linux runs on all my existing netbook, latop, PC etc.

    We changed the server first a few years ago (we quite often had UNIX or Linux on something since 1986) from Windows 2000 (Win 2003 was too bloated for the old Hardware that had been running NT 4.0.) to Debian. Maybe that was 2010.

    1. Smilin' Stan

      Re: Alternative is'nt pain free

      Yep - used MS OSs from 1982-2016. Supported same (and MS desktop software and networking for 20+ of those years). After mistaken Win10 update to my Toshiba laptop that was happily running Win7 I gave the laptop away.

      Now 100% Microsoft-free. No OSs, no software, no cloud-stuff - nothin'. Now using only iPhone/Mac/iCloud and Chromebook/Google Apps - and couldn't be happier!

    2. Not That Andrew

      Re: Alternative is'nt pain free

      If you are going to move people to Linux, move them to something relatively sane and which will still be around in a couple of years, like Debian. Or Fedora or Ubuntu or Arch if you insist on being bleeding edge. Even Slackware is a better choice, it's stable and it's been around forever.

  17. slack

    SatNad and his cohorts are starting to make Ballmer look like a technology guru.

    1. VinceH Silver badge
      Coat

      Now, now - there's no need for ridiculous exaggeration!

  18. Adam 1 Silver badge

    the craziest thing about it is

    If not for the rampant, er telemetry, and gwx, it's actually quite nice. I would even be recommending it save for the frankly frightening way they are behaving here.

    It reminds me of a dog chasing a car. What does it actually think it will achieve by upgrading my media centre PC to a version that doesn't support media centre?

    If the upgrade had three buttons

    Yes, upgrade

    Not sure, ask me later; and

    No, don't ask again

    We would be praising them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: the craziest thing about it is

      A few weeks ago a friend had a W8.x pop-up that appeared to offer the "obvious" choice of "install W10 now" - but also a smaller font option of (she thought) "never install W10".

      She had clicked on the "never" option - and then rang me to say I was so wrong about Microsoft not offering that option.

      She added that if W10 is installed after that then she would go and buy a Mac.

      So far she hasn't reported W10 being installed - so I'm left scratching my head over that.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: the craziest thing about it is

        but also a smaller font option of (she thought) "never install W10".

        ...

        so I'm left scratching my head over that.

        Best give her machine the full AV treatment just to be sure she hasn't just installed a rather crafty piece of malware...

        1. Dagg

          Re: the craziest thing about it is

          >Best give her machine the full AV treatment just to be sure she hasn't just installed a rather crafty piece of malware...

          Nah, she is safe, W10 is the malware!

    2. Baldrickk Silver badge

      Re: the craziest thing about it is

      Same here, if they had delivered an OS that was basically Windows 7 with the back-end changes and upgrades, I'd have bitten the bullet already.

      As it is, now that my PC has died and I won't be able to install to a spare disk in case I need/want it - when I build my new PC, it'll have only *nix on it.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: the craziest thing about it is

        if they had delivered an OS that was basically Windows 7 with the back-end changes and upgrades, I'd have bitten the bullet already.

        I think many were expecting MS to do the obvious and logical after the Win8 fiasco and simply drop the Win8 source code, revert to the archived Win7 source code and then roll forward implementing only those changes that did not change the UI or remove Win7 compatibility.

        So that would of meant everyone trashing their Win8 developments, but at the time very little actually ran on Win8 that didn't also run on Win7.

        But then that was to be expected since they showed a total lack of real business acumen and end gamed XP instead of bringing out XP R2...

    3. hplasm Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: the craziest thing about it is

      "We would be praising them."

      Who you calling 'we' paleface? </Tonto>

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Elop as new CEO!

    I think really, they have a burning platform. It's dying so quick they don't know what to do and are panicking.

    Perhaps they should hire Elop so he can gut the business and sell it to Nokia at a discount price?

  20. Alancashirelad

    Win 7

    Windows 7 will be my last MS OS End of

    1. Dwarf Silver badge

      Re: Win 7

      Windows 7 WAS my last MS OS.

      As I've said before, I took the roller coaster all the way from MSDOS 3

      From now on, its Penguins all the way.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Win 7

      ...and 10 will be the last MS OS... They've already conceded that.

  21. VinceH Silver badge

    Microsoft notes that “Based on customer feedback, in the most recent version of the Get Windows 10 (GWX) app, we confirm the time of your scheduled upgrade and provide you an additional opportunity for cancelling or rescheduling the upgrade we observed too many people misunderstanding, believing that saying 'No' was an option, so we've taken steps to prevent them saying it.”

    Fixed.

  22. Philip Virgo

    Was this the software equivalent of the Ford Edsel? Or is it more profound - a tipping point that well finally enabled the Chinese to do to the US software industry what the Japanese did to their car industry half a century ago?

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The KB article has a "feedback" section

    I suggest people use it.

    This is what I had to say.

    1. CustardGannet
      Linux

      Re: The KB article has a "feedback" section

      Here's the feedback I left :

      "X means NO ! See https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn742499%28v=vs.85%29.aspx . You just made us give our 11-year-old daughter a *severe* telling-off for approving this unwanted upgrade, while she denied everything. We told her that we weren't angry that she had made a mistake, just angry that she wouldn't take responsibility, while she tearfully insisted that she had simply closed the box by clicking on the 'X' as we'd taught her. Hope you're proud of yourselves. I'm ‫off to buy a copy of 'Linux for Dummies', I'm sick of your BS."

    2. Mpeler
      Mushroom

      Re: The KB article has a "feedback" section

      Funny, they have a spell-checker on their feedback window (that doesn't work correctly, as dialogue is correct in both American and British English - maybe not in Indian English?), but they don't have a code-checker for their crap code.

      Satan New Delhi. I'm beginning to think Ballmer left because even he wouldn't do what M$ had planned...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The KB article has a "feedback" section

        Funny, they have a spell-checker on their feedback window (that doesn't work correctly, as dialogue is correct in both American and British English - maybe not in Indian English?), but they don't have a code-checker for their crap code.

        Actually, that was Firefox… possibly the "English (Australia)" dictionary has some errors in it. Most of the time I'm able to correctly spell a word without relying on it and this is one example of that.

  24. Carl D

    The BBC seems to think they've backpedalled (slightly) on this:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962

    >> "Based on "customer feedback", Microsoft said it would add another notification that provided customers with "an additional opportunity for cancelling the upgrade" <<

    Customer feedback? lol... yeah, I bet they got lots of that. And, I'm sure their word censor blanked out quite a bit of it too.

    And this comment from another website:

    >> Microsoft said users could still cancel the upgrade once the red X had been clicked. “With the free Windows 10 upgrade offer ending on July 29, we want to help people upgrade to the best version of Windows,” it said.

    "Customers can choose to accept or decline the Windows 10 upgrade." <<

    I'm almost certain if someone broke into 'MS Headquarters' all they would find these days is an army of robots (or aliens) programmed to conquer the world with Windows 10 - when they're not busy churning out useless, canned responses like the ones quoted above.

    1. Paul Shirley

      Microsoft have generously provided a pop-up just before the scheduled update starts. You'll have 30min to work out which option actually cancels and this time the X will follow guidelines and cancel the cancel option. For added convenience they'll leave the scheduled time just when you expect it, while you're soundly asleep between 4 and 5 am. Don't worry, the pc will wake up for it, even if they have to hack your settings and BIOS.

      Have I said ”cnuts” yet?

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        You'll have 30min to work out which option actually cancels and this time the X will follow guidelines and cancel the cancel option.

        I can't work out whether you're being sarcastic or not, that's how bad things have got.

  25. Test Man

    The problem here is Microsoft are being amazingly mealy-mouthed here.

    They are right - the dialog is simply giving you information... on a setting that has already been set. Instead of trying to "trick" users, why don't they do this:

    • Do not pre-set any fucking option

    • Bring up a dialog that makes it clear that this is an opportunity to set a schedule, with a fucking CANCEL button to not set it

    • Therefore the "X" button would leave the machine in the same state as it was prior to the dialog appearing - with nothing set.

    There, simple Microsoft.

    Idiots.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >There, simple Microsoft.

      >Idiots.

      You seem to be under the impression they're doing this accidentally. They are not.

  26. inmypjs Silver badge

    Nagged by Quickbooks

    Yesterday Quickbooks 2014 helpfully informed me that is isn't compatible with Windows 10.

    Does the get Wndows 10 crap tell you it isn't compatible with Quickbooks?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nagged by Quickbooks

      As part of the 'Upgrade' process the non-compatible software is supposed to be detected.

      You get a list of what will NOT be migrated over before Win10 does its stuff!!!

      Obviously, yet another almost but not quite working feature of the Win 10 'Experience'.

      You do wonder how MS can keep a straight face while all the lemmings are 'Upgrading' with glee.

      If you want Win10 do not be surprised that some things do not work or have problems.

      Win10 is a 'Work in Progress' and MS are regularly fixing & breaking parts of it as they roll out incremental updates & fixes.

      God help any Enterprise that jumps on the win10 bandwagon.

      It was bad enough supporting Win7 / Win 8.x but Win 10 moves the ground you are standing on at random times. Just what you need to ensure that your Support staff have plenty of calls to answer !!!

      Have a moan at Quickbooks but I suspect that there is a new and improved version that is compatible with Win 10 for a 'very reasonable price' :)

      1. inmypjs Silver badge

        Re: Nagged by Quickbooks

        "moan at Quickbooks but I suspect that there is a new"

        Oh yes, it told me I needed Quickbooks 2015 for Win 10 compatibility. Didn't bother looking for a price because there isn't a snowball in hell's chance of me updating to Win 10.

        At least intuit are not (yet) using updates to try to force me to rent their expensive online service.

    2. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Nagged by Quickbooks

      "Yesterday Quickbooks 2014 helpfully informed me that is isn't compatible with Windows 10."

      You'll be happy to know that postbooks runs happily on pretty much any version of Linux.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postbooks

      If you're wanting to run personal rather than business finances then gnucash works very well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GnuCash

      My personal linux preference is Lubuntu, but many prefer Mint Cinnamon (I find Mint MATE a bit fugly)

      The pity about this entire shitstorm is that apart from the telemetry, WinX is generally better behaved, more stable and faster than WinXP/Vista/7/8 - even on seriously old equipment.

      You can even disable Metro and use the classic desktop

      There are ways of disabling the telemetry but you can never be sure it won't be turned back on, and sooner or later it's expected MS will move from a "pay once" model to "rental software" - which is the very model that MS originally destroyed back in the 1980s with "good enough, and cheap" software.

      MS haven't footshot with gwx. They've blown the back of their collective skulls off.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Nagged by Quickbooks

        You'll be happy to know that postbooks runs happily on pretty much any version of Linux.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postbooks

        Sounds good, BUT…

        Australia has one of the most complex taxation systems in the world. How does it go with things like payroll tax? If it's actually maintained with updates to its taxation rulesets on a regular basis and our CFO likes it, we'd drop QuickBooks in a heartbeat, but the truth is, we're using QuickBooks for things like payroll, and with that, You Cannot Afford To Get It Wrong!

    3. Hans 1 Silver badge

      Re: Nagged by Quickbooks

      >Does the get Wndows 10 crap tell you it isn't compatible with Quickbooks?

      No, worse, it just uninstalls it ...

      I have a cheap HP laptop (without handle) and company policy (LOL) says I need to upgrade it to Windows 10 ... I have not hidden any updates on this box, I have not installed anything to prevent GWX from installing ... I just "never updated" .... so, yesterday, I go through three or four reboots to get all the updates, then wonder, no GWX ... this is 8.1 Pro .... had to go to the MS website to download the bugger ...

      While it downloads the crap from the interwebs and prepares installation, I am told I can "use" my computer in the meantime ... until it has finished and reboots without warning ... of course, nobody uses Windows 10 in production, so go ahead, reboot ... b@stard

  27. cantankerous swineherd

    had to get a cheap and nasty laptop last month, with the latest software from the convicted monopolist pre installed. failed to get my first 2 Linux preferences installed I think because of uefi issues, but Ubuntu 16 went on happily enough. ui not very good but definitely usable. dual booting ATM in case the dreaded issues arise, but it's goodbye Microsoft from me.

    well, except for the win 7 desktop on the sneakernet...

    1. Whistlerspa

      I use Ubuntu 16.04 with cinnamon as the GUI. Works well.

    2. Vic

      Ubuntu 16 went on happily enough. ui not very good

      Pick another one - you have choices now. Find something you like, rather than something you're required to use...

      Vic.

  28. tempemeaty
    Mushroom

    So "No" is not an option...

    It sounds like Microsoft has declared that "Yes" means yes and "No" means yes.

    1. Captain Badmouth
      Windows

      Re: So "No" is not an option...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53u7LuGJecw

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: So "No" is not an option...

      The user was begging for it your honour, so we gave it to them...

  29. Camilla Smythe

    ISTR

    This is in effect exactly the same behaviour adopted by Phorm for their 'opt-in' interstitial in Brazil, Romania and Turkey. The user would try to visit Pornhub and Phorm would pop-up their interstitial 'invite' page whilst immediately setting 'opted-in' cookies on the users machine. Naturally the user would go WTF! and close the pop-up to continue on to the 'good stuff' and end up being 'opted-in'. That sort of behaviour, amongst others, was determined to be illegal and a few fines were handed out to ISPs with Phorm being forced to adopt a more reasonable approach... basically they had to set 'opted-out' cookies such that if the user closed the pop-up without taking further action they were 'opted-out'. Perhaps someone might care to prod the appropriate EU department and get them to look into things.... or point me in the right direction and I'll bash off a letter.

  30. clansaorsa

    Not All Bad

    I like Microsoft. They gave me Visual Studio free - c# is great - and it's only recently that Linux has been able to offer anything comparable with Mono (but even that is at least in part due to Microsoft opening up .net).

    I tried Win10 early on in a VM - and hated it. And I still hate what I've seen of it since. On the other hand it's been quite fun jousting with Microsoft over their (in my care) futile attempts to force an upgrade. It's not been difficult to beat them. So what's all the fuss about?

    1. Dagg
      Gimp

      Re: Not All Bad

      >c# is great

      C# is like having sex with too many condoms...

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    we may huff

    and laugh, particularly at the quoted piece of microsoft wisdom

    [quote]

    The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK.

    [/quote]

    but the fact is, the trick is going to give them another couple of milion W10 installs, and I bet it's all they care about now. Particularly in those last pre-deadline moments.

    1. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: we may huff

      "Particularly in those last pre-deadline moments."

      I'm pretty sure the deadline will be extended multiple times.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Damn, damn, DAMN..

    I made a serious mistake with abandoning Windows so many years ago.

    I would have enjoyed so much publicity by taking the f*ckers to court on charges of hacking (various options under UK law) that I would not have to use any marketing for years.

    There is so much there, it probably wouldn't even need a lawyer to make it stick (although you'd still need one to fight off creativity from the friends MS has in government since the days of Tony Blair).

    Alas, I haven't touched Windows since Win 7 and it's just too much hassle and risk to resume a bad habit just to annoy the hell out of them. I'm just very surprised nobody has called on, for instance, Computer Misuse Act violations (the EULAs are not a problem thanks to the Unfair Contract Term clauses imported into the recently improved consumer protection laws).

    So, don't whinge, get a criminal investigation going with some political influence. It's not like you're alone in this, and politicians love the ability to pretend that they're interested in voter rights. If nothing else, you can enjoy the though that it will cost Microsoft a fortune (in publicity and either in bribes or in legal fees) to make it go away.

  33. Captain Badmouth
    Windows

    Latest article

    http://windowssecrets.com/patch-watch/getting-ready-or-not-for-windows-10/

    oops. seems to be paywalled.

  34. Unicornpiss Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Supposedly...

    Microsoft has supposedly gone to great pains to make Windows 10 the 'most usable and simplest Windows ever' (to paraphrase) All the half-witted troubleshooters and dumbing down of everything for the lowest common denominator of users. (who wants to have to actually think, eh?) Click the shiny button and get a reward. Yet the "opting out" is the least intuitive and is meant to stick you with Windows 10 whether you want it or not, like the fine print in any other shady endeavour. No, MS knows exactly what it's doing. It's not precisely clear when the paradigm shift (God, I hate that phrase, but in this case it's apropos) from producing a world-class operating system to marketing as much crap to you as possible occurred, with usability taking a distant second, but I guess it was after the launch of Windows 7.

    Practises like this leave a bad taste in my mouth, and hopefully do so as well for anyone with an IQ higher than 80.

    1. nematoad Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Supposedly...

      "...from producing a world-class operating system..."

      Hang on, this is Microsoft you are talking about, right?

      I don't think ubiquitous equals "world-class", There are and have been other OSs that could claim the title, Nextstep, Beos, Unix and Gnu/Linux come immediately to mind. You may be able to think of others.

      Just because something is widely used does not make it the best solution, just look at systemd for a glaring example.

      As a piece of graffiti I saw once said "Eat shit, 10>12 flies can't be wrong."

      1. Mpeler
        Alien

        Re: Supposedly... "world-class operating system"

        Maybe they were thinking about a different world. Frogstar B, perhaps?

  35. channel extended
    Unhappy

    I feel left out....

    I recently loaded Win7 into a vm, I had a DVD left over from an old build. Then I went to update and try to get Win10, just to play around mind you. NO luck won't update. All of you nice people are having the exact opposite of my luck.

    My luck is so bad I can't even get free Windows.:(

    1. Chika
      Facepalm

      Re: I feel left out....

      What VM system did you use?

      Did you activate W7 before attempting to upgrade?

      Did you update the system once loaded?

      And finally, the most important question...

      WHY?!?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I feel left out....

      Windows 7 and greater knows when it is running in a VM.

      The GWX software must detect that VM and not allow the upgrade.

      It is possible to 'get around' this ........ :)

      Google 'SLIC' and think outside the box. :)

      As a 1st option go to --> https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-10-upgrade?ocid=win10_wol_banner_upgrade

      Click the download now button.

      It will download 'GetWindows10-Web_Default_Attr.exe'

      This should perform the 'Upgrade' to Win 10.

      I do not know if this will also not work in a VM, try it and see!!!

      1. Swarthy Silver badge

        Re: I feel left out....

        Windows 7 and greater knows when it is running in a VM.

        The GWX software must detect that VM and not allow the upgrade.

        Yes, most viruses can detect a VM and refuse to run, mainly to keep security researches from reverse engineering them and writing anti-virals.

        I guess MS copied that code as well, when they were writing the malware-like behaviour for GWX.

        1. Neil Barnes Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: I feel left out....

          I have a single VM with W7 in it for some diagnostic software that can't run on Linux, so it's never connected to the network.

          I thought I'd play... cloned the VM, fired up the cloned W7, no W10 request.

          Ah, do the updates. 171 of them. Couple of hours later, now I have the W10 request.

          Request it.

          Wait.

          Wait.

          Wait.

          VM restarts, announces it failed...

          Try again.

          VM ums and ahs for a while, then drops back to W7.

          Delete clone VM.

          Seems I can't catch it either.

    3. VinceH Silver badge

      Re: I feel left out....

      "My luck is so bad I can't even get free Windows.:("

      You seem to be confused as to what constitutes bad luck.

  36. Stigofthedump
    Linux

    Happy Penguinhead here

    I must admit to having Win10 on this computer (just in case I get something that wont play with Linux) but I've been running Linux (various flavours, currently Mint) for over 10 years now and have not looked back.

  37. Rezillo

    My partner works for a small charity tied to a IT support team of 2 nerds, part of the office accommodation package that they rent. They were caught out by this yesterday when all their PCs and laptops went through the "upgrade" process, leaving them unable to do anything with them for hours. They then found that ther internet connection was unuseable and they couldn't access any of their files, which turned out to due to their bandwidth being completely overwhelmed by the automatic transfer of several years worth of local files onto Onedrive.

    I know this kind of situation can be properly managed to avoid this happening in the right company environment. However, this is a charity run on a shoestring that hasn't got that kind of IT control or resources available to it and it can hardly be alone in this. They had no idea they 'agreed' to the upgrade. All their hassle could have been avoided by a less deceitful dialog box.

  38. Anonymous South African Coward Silver badge

    Fools rushing in where angels fear to tread.

    Thanks goes to Gibson with his never10 utility.

    Anyway, I digress.

    I think the real reason for M$ getting this desperate is their precouses Windows Mobile platform took a heavy knock recently due to the dearth of apps in the App Store....

    ...and Win10 have an app store.

    Putting these two together gives me the result of that M$ want to infect as many purdy compootahs as possible with Win10 in order to drive app development for the Win10 app store, and by extension, for WinMobile too.

    Purdy Compootahs ftw.

    Nah, I'll stick to Win7/Win8.1 for a long, long time. Works for me, and no silly poofting around in the background either.

    1. Vic

      I think the real reason for M$ getting this desperate is their precouses Windows Mobile platform took a heavy knock recently due to the dearth of apps in the App Store

      I think it's the other way round...

      For years, Microsoft has made a fortune selling software of variable quality because its customers know where they are with Windows, and often fear to try something different - just look at how often we see the "Linux means retraining all my users" canard here.

      With the advent of mobile computing, people are already taking their first steps away from Microsoft - and are realising that they no longer need to Redmond Behemonth. Too much of that, and Microsoft's empire will crumble.

      Thus we have the Windows Phone play (of whichever recent flavour - the strategy is the same, it's just the implementation that keeps changing); MS is trying to get mobile users to associate thei mobile computers with their desktop/laptop/other computers by giving it the same interface and - largely - the same ability to run software (we'll ignore RT for the time being). This is the mechanism by which Microsoft expects to prop up its desktop monopoly.

      But it's all going wrong - Windows Phone is a rounding error, so it isn't going to prop up anything. And by gluing the mobile-style UI on top of the desktop product, MS has alienated a huge number of its long-term customer base. The end result of pursuing this policy will be to cause the MS desktop saturation to decline.

      There is a simple way out of this for MS - drop the GWX bollocks, drop the spyware, drop the forced upgrades, put the Win7 UI onto the chassis of Win10. The result will be something that plays much like Win7, but with the improvements[1] of the Win10 OS. And that will involve eating a lot of humble pie; I don't expect them to do this until it is far too late to save the empire...

      Vic.

      [1] I am told - by people who know - that the improvements under the covers are very real indeed. I don't have sufficient eperience with Win10 to be able to prove such claims, but I am happy to acknowledge them.

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        > just look at how often we see the "Linux means retraining all my users" canard here.

        I gave a friend an old laptop with Lubuntu on it. "retraining" consisted of 15 minutes showing the slightly different icons. "This is how you start Libreoffice and this is how you use 'save as' to export in MS format if needed"

        Surprisingly, the single biggest selling point was the middle click mouse paste.

  39. PickledAardvark

    Target Culture Failure

    Microsoft have defined support statements and end of life definitions for Windows 7/8/8.1. For varying lengths of time, these OS versions will be supported for enterprise, small business and consumer users. So MS will not be able to save money by killing them off a bit early; they're contractually obliged to maintain them. Thus Microsoft's desire for Windows 10 upgrades is about numbers and market share, perhaps a bit of esteem.

    We might also conclude that the decision to change dialog box behaviour was not taken at board or CEO level. We should assume that a Windows 10 Upgrade group was told to persuade users to adopt the OS. Somebody will have plucked target numbers for adoptees out of the air and somebody else is trying to meet them, whatever the reputational risk to the company.

    All that needs to change is for somebody at board or CEx level to see the damage that is being done. Reporting of recent actions in mainstream media -- not just geek press -- has given MS a well deserved kicking. I presume execs can read and understand that their messages and signals about upgrade targets have been misunderstood by company employees lower down. They need to apologise honestly about company behaviour and rethink target culture.

    It's not hard to do. Tens of thousands of Windows users -- small business people, families, IT professionals, other professionals -- have been telling Microsoft. But it takes humility and courage to admit what has gone wrong.

    Disclaimer: Most of the MS software engineers, sales support workers etc who I've met are good people, even when they're looking at a problem the wrong way. I usually like working with MS people. But when you meet a Microsoft employee who isn't listening, walk away and talk with somebody else.

  40. markowen58

    Windows 10 leaving a bad taste in your mouth?

    Try Mint.

    I'm surprised no one has or is trying to capitalise on this fumble by MS. Does Linux have a marketing department? :)

    My take on MS is that high up the decision has been taken to ride out this period to maximise the number of beta testers, as that's what this OS is in, get their feedback through the sneaky monitoring, and shift to this faster update schedule I've read about somewhere and this whole service thing.

    So yeah, bloody mindedness from them for the foreseeable future. But back to my original point, no point preaching to the converted on here.

  41. David Nash Silver badge

    While we are bashing MS...

    I visited my elderly father a couple of weeks ago and found him in a chat session with a MS tech support bod who had remote control of his W7 laptop. this was because a Windows Update had broken his pre-installed MS Office, he of course had lost or never had the key so and reinstalling hadn't helped.

    MS support person then said "sorry can't help, would you like to buy an upgrade to Office?"

    When my father politely declined, the session was ended and asked for feedback "did we resolve your problem" - Dad clicked "No". Next it asks for ratings out of 5 for the support guy. Before he could click anything the support guy who clearly had not yet logged out of my dad's machine, clicked 5 stars on both questions then "submit" as quickly as possible.

    Now that is cheeky at best, and might even be computer misuse. I am not sure who I can complain to though, or whether there is any point.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: While we are bashing MS...

      When my father politely declined, the session was ended and asked for feedback "did we resolve your problem" - Dad clicked "No". Next it asks for ratings out of 5 for the support guy. Before he could click anything the support guy who clearly had not yet logged out of my dad's machine, clicked 5 stars on both questions then "submit" as quickly as possible.

      Now that is cheeky at best, and might even be computer misuse. I am not sure who I can complain to though, or whether there is any point.

      When the session ended, so did the permission to remote control his computer. If this happened in the UK, any subsequent action without your father's permission amounts to a criminal offence - even if it just doing the usual rigging of statistics.

      I would, however, first play that ball back to Microsoft UK by means of a proper written letter delivered via registered mail so you have confirmation - maybe with El Reg's help to keep it public because this is simply not on - just ask in which weird way this is not breaking the Computer Misuse Act or whatever you want to go for and demand confirmation that your true selection (fill in values) is taken into the survey.

      If they respond "no we didn't" - you have your father and you as a witness (although family is considered biased, it'll be easy to find the survey score as its tied to your call). If they reply "we'll change it" you have written acknowledgement that they know that they acted in breach and can again take it further.

      However, I don't expect you to find much support for taking this to court, but it's always fun to throw a legal grenade at Microsoft and see if it dents anything. There's always the chance that someone panics and goes public, in which case the Internet and the press will do the rest :).

      1. KA1AXY

        Re: While we are bashing MS...

        Or, he could do what I did for my brother -- install Linux Mint. For the exact reason that it does not randomly break things, or catch viruses.

        If I'm doing free support for relatives, no matter how much I enjoy seeing them, I want to minimize the time we spend working to fix their computer. That's not quality time.

  42. [a-z][A-Z]*

    F*** another fail for IT in the eyes of ordinary users

    I came back from a long business trip last Friday, and my wife who uses the PC in the office for emails, browsing, and bit of work related word processing had been tripped up by this while I was away. User interface all different, desktop icons gone, stuff moved and so she was understandably alarmed that she had been hacked or hoodwinked into giving stuff away and didn't touch it until I got back in the small hours. Please don't go on about how this or that can be disabled that is completely irrelevant to the fact that Microsoft are eroding trust in an every day tool.

    Oh, and a small point, the CAD tool I was using to design a small boat is now broken.

    1. slack

      Re: F*** another fail for IT in the eyes of ordinary users

      "Oh, and a small point, the CAD tool I was using to design a small boat is now broken."

      Perhaps you dodged a bullet: if you were designing it on an MS operating system it would probably have sprung a leak right when you needed it most and sunk. And Ballmer might have danced around at the launch!

      1. David 132 Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: F*** another fail for IT in the eyes of ordinary users

        "Oh, and a small point, the CAD tool I was using to design a small boat is now broken."

        Perhaps you dodged a bullet: if you were designing it on an MS operating system it would probably have sprung a leak...

        No Portholes, only Windows.

  43. stim

    I upgraded all my machines to 10 months ago, dunno what all the fuss is about ;)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @stim - So if you have no clue

      why are you posting here ? Just asking!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @stim - So if you have no clue

        why are you posting here ? Just asking!

        That's not the most important question. "HOW are you posting here" is the one I'd like to see answered, as a number of reports have indicated it breaks connectivity. I'd say it's one of the Microsoft astroturfers we have floating around here.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @stim - So if you have no clue

        > why are you posting here ? Just asking!

        Not really much different to all the people posting that they've been running Linux Mint for 15 years.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @stim - So if you have no clue

          Not really much different to all the people posting that they've been running Linux Mint for 15 years.

          Except that Linux Mint didn't exist 15 years ago… I remember those days well!

          (Linux user since 1996.)

  44. inmypjs Silver badge

    230 Million

    I saw one of the update offer screens bragging about how 230 million people have already upgraded.

    At say $50 each that is $11.5 billion Microsoft gave away. How effing stupid do you have to be to think they did that because they no longer want to make money or they like you or something?

    I wish they would hurry up and get this free upgrade done with because I want to see how and how quickly they are going to screw money out of Win 10 users.

    If only everyone had just said "No".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 230 Million

      This is the ominous reason I most fear for this Windows 10 push. Microsoft soothed Wall Street fears promising they will get back all those billions and even more. Anyone remember a Microsoft high official talking to investors more than a year ago who was saying something about "monetizing a user for his entire lifetime" ?

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: 230 Million

          A company that installs Telemetry without your knowledge or agreement, and will not specifically state what is or is not sent back - is a very sly and pernicious corporation.

          Actually, that is a company acting illegally, and liable to be hauled in court for all manner of valid reasons. Depending on who the victim is, charges can scale all the way from hacking to espionage.

          Personally, I can't wait. Enough is enough, and in the UK you cannot agree to idiocy like that unless it is explicit and separate from the EULA.

          Now a fun question: people state their computers have been upgraded without their involvement or permission. Did anyone have to accept a new EULA before it started to work? If so, you accepted that EULA under duress which renders it invalid, and the conditions do thus not apply - in effect, you have a machine that runs an OS without any obligation on your part. Use that.

    2. Michael Thibault

      Re: 230 Million

      Microsoft has hit a new low with this dialog slight-of-hand--although they do have similar form in getting the ISO to put out. But the wailing and gnashing of teeth that will occur within a billing period of the end of the-first-year's-free shit-show will see MS at the top of a steep incline. The best thing that can be done at that point is to give them a hard, swift kick in the ass.

      Time for the penguinistas to herd all the USB flash drives they can find and prep them for installs of 32 flavours and then some. Maybe there's time to work something up with high on-line visibility and obvious unity and cohesion in the broad task... Maybe.

    3. Rol Silver badge

      Re: 230 Million

      When my win7 fails, I'll reach for the install disk and reload it.

      When your win10 fails, because you stopped paying the monthly subscription fee, you're fked.

      What subscription fee?

      Just wait and see, wait and see.

    4. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: 230 Million

      "At say $50 each that is $11.5 billion Microsoft gave away."

      No, it's not.

      Windows is a tiny part of MS's overall income. Office accounts for the _VAST_ majority of their income.

      It's in MS's interest to keep people using Windows even if they have to give it away, as long as they buy other products (loss leaders).

      What keeps them awake at night are things like Libre Office and people installing Linux.

  45. Lorin Thwaits

    It's astounding that Microsoft is actually willing to have their customers equate them on the same level as a payday loan outfit. One slimy tactic after another.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's astounding that Microsoft is actually willing to have their customers equate them on the same level as a payday loan outfit. One slimy tactic after another.

      I'm afraid you still don't get it. As far as I can tell, Microsoft will do ANYTHING it can get away with to make money (even more so now desperation is starting to set in). I cares nothing about your rights or about any annoying laws that may appear to be in the way - following the law is for amateurs. I reckon the latter is because it has never been involved in a court case that resulted in a fine large enough to annul the profits it made over the time it managed to drag it out.

      This is why I worry about Google, because they show signs of copying that exact playbook. These are NOT benign companies.

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ode to Win10

    Patrick Farrell has a great one over on Spiceworks:

    https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1624234-4-4-machines-upgraded-to-windows-10-without-approval?source=start&pos=4

    1. Justin Clift

      Re: Ode to Win10

      I'm sure people will guess what music it's based on ...

      No idea. Someone further down mentions "Simon and Garfunkel", but I don't know any of their songs.

      In my head I was imagining "GlaDOS" (eg Portal/Portal 2 end credits) which would be appropriate in many ways. :D

      1. David 132 Silver badge

        Re: Ode to Win10

        No idea. Someone further down mentions "Simon and Garfunkel", but I don't know any of their songs.

        Heathen. Ill-educated oaf. Kids today, mutter mumble grumble.

        It's an obvious pastiche of this:

        Simon & Garfunkel - The Sound of Silence [1964]

    2. Mpeler
      Pint

      Re: Ode to Win10

      Brilliant. Too bad Micro$ucks isn't silent... Have an upvote and a beer (and another for Patrick Farrell)!

  47. TVU

    "My partner works for a small charity tied to a IT support team of 2 nerds, part of the office accommodation package that they rent. They were caught out by this yesterday when all their PCs and laptops went through the "upgrade" process, leaving them unable to do anything with them for hours. They then found that ther internet connection was unuseable and they couldn't access any of their files, which turned out to due to their bandwidth being completely overwhelmed by the automatic transfer of several years worth of local files onto Onedrive."

    :-O While Windows 10 isn't necessarily a bad operating system in itself, this type of Redmond chicanery will only give Microsoft and Windows 10 a bad reputation which, in the long run, can only be counterproductive. For example, after such an experience, I can see many people opting for Chromebooks, OS X (inc. hackintoshes) and the free Windows-like Linux distributions such as Linux Mint, Zorin, LXLE and Linux Lite which pretty much work straight out of the box.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Does it really upload company confidential data to MS servers without asking?

      If so, that right there would be grounds for some pretty nasty legal stuff.

  48. DerekCurrie Bronze badge
    Happy

    No. Never. The solution is now simple...

    Never10:

    https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

    Freeware.

    No ads.

    Nothing installed.

    Thank you Steve Gibson.

    "Easily Control Automatic and Unwanted Windows 7 & 8.1 Upgrading to Windows 10.... Never 10 is an easy to use utility which gives users control over whether their Windows 7 or 8.1 will upgrade itself to Windows 10.... IMPORTANT NEW v1.3 RELEASE REMOVES ~6.5GB OF WIN10 FILES.... Full command-line control for corporate deployment."

    1. Not That Andrew

      Re: No. Never. The solution is now simple...

      See the posts on the first page why using anything from that shyster Gibson is a bad Idea

      here's a couple of El Reg articles on him when the public still thought he was relevant

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/25/steve_gibson_invents_broken_syncookies/

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/12/31/winxp_hole_misrepresented_by_fbi/

      Use ANY Win 10 control tool except his. I use GWX Control Panel but any should do.

  49. David Roberts Silver badge

    Rollback option still there?

    I have previously read that you can roll back an install.

    A friend has been malgraded from 8.1 and I've said I will try to roll it back.

    However there is a post upstream which suggests the roll back option has been removed.

    Anyone rolled back a malgrade recently?

    1. AOD
      Flame

      Re: Rollback option still there?

      Allegedly up to a month post "upgrade" you could still rollback.

      I updated 2 machines at home, one a Toshiba Ultrabook (SSD + i5) and a HP Elitebook (SSD + i7).

      The Tosh is now pretty much unusable even for basic browsing in Chrome which previously was perfectly nippy.

      The Elitebook fared better (perhaps the 16GB RAM helped) but I had steam coming out of my ears when I realised the previously sensible Windows import for photos & videos (you know, the one where you can choose which folders each media type goes to, how to label them etc) had been removed/disabled. Instead we had a "prettified" W10 offering called "Photos".

      Only when I stumbled across this article on DP Review was I able to restore the feature. But it begs the question, why in the blazes was it disabled in the first place?

      As I have full images for both machines (courtesy of CloneZilla) at some point very soon I shall be saying fuckity bye to W10. This latest piece of blatant Microsoft middle fingering just makes me want to get back there even sooner.

    2. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: Rollback option still there?

      Anyone rolled back a malgrade recently?

      My understanding is that the rollback option is available for up to 30 days after the Win10 installation.

      However, I've seen reports of some things (e.g. mail data files etc) being converted to a new format during the Win10 installation and NOT reverted afterwards. In other words, the rollback is a "best efforts" deal, and isn't guaranteed to put everything back the way it was.

      Windows 10 also has a nasty habit of helpfully deleting any incompatible software it finds ("<application> isn't compatible with Windows 10 and has been removed") and I doubt those would be un-deleted when rolling back.

      I'll admit I don't have personal experience of this. I installed Windows 10 over Windows 7 on one of my home PCs, but made a clone of the SSD first, and that was MY rollback strategy!

      Also worth noting: after the initial 30 days, your Win7 key is invalidated. So if you use my strategy and switch back to a clone of your Win7 drive after 30 days, it won't activate.

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Big Brother

    No to 10

    Lets see, updates:

    3035583 = NO

    2952664 = NO

    2977759 = NO

    3083710 = NO

    That does it.. Sorry Bill! NOT!

  51. Joerg

    Microsoft has to disappaer. Like they killed Nokia!

    This Microsoft is the worst one ever seen.

    Windows7 was a miracle but there is no chance of anything good ever gain from Microsoft.

    They must go bankrupt.

  52. Light Bulb Descendant

    IT emails round the company advising staff

    Brief list of instructions on how to avoid Windows 10.

    People have now been asking "what is this Windows 10 virus all about?". When the general public think your product is a virus, you're losing some serious face.

  53. J J Carter Silver badge
    Pirate

    MSFT have lost the plot

    Satdad's day of shame

  54. Jim-234

    Trying so hard to force "free" garbage down your throat... makes you wonder

    Despite Microsoft's lying explanation, they DID change the behaviour of their Windows 10 nagware / malware prompts.

    Previously when the malware prompt popped up, the only 2 options were now or later and either option upgraded you, unless you clicked the x at the top.

    Then they DID change the behavior now to the prompt coming up and saying we are going to upgrade you like it or not at x time and then you can find the small link to cancel & then confirm again and again that you actually don't want their crap. If you just click on the x like before, it goes ahead and upgrades you (as my boss found out to his chagrin).

    For a "Free" upgrade they are trying so hard to shove it down people's throat, like it or not, you really have to start thinking it's the start of something bad. Microsoft is willing to anger it's customer base to no end to try to force this stuff on them and doesn't care about loosing goodwill or market share. They have never given a big open "Free" upgrade before, not even to the people using Vista when Windows 7 came out.

    For them to be having this hard a time getting people to use their new mucky OS, and having to resort to underhanded, near criminal tactics, you must wonder why they want you to have this "free" bucket of slop so very badly?.......

    1. anoco

      Re: Trying so hard to force "free" garbage down your throat... makes you wonder

      Exactly. It's like that hot girl in the pub hitting on you incessantly in spite of your wedding ring, duct taped eyeglasses and belt below your nipples. The best you can wish for is to only lose your wallet. But she's probably gunning for your soul.

  55. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    pull the other one

    i tried my self to upgrade to windows 10 and found YOU NEED A ADMIN PASSWORD. so unless this has changed only someone who is a little bit of an idiot (putting it politely) who has signed in as an admin would ever be fooled by this.

    i do apologise if this has changed and will check promptly.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: pull the other one

      i tried my self to upgrade to windows 10 and found YOU NEED A ADMIN PASSWORD.

      Yes the admin password is required if you drive the update, if however you simply let GWX do the job, it isn't necessary because GWX uses the permissions granted to the Windows Update Service... Additionally, many systems are set to allow all users to install Windows updates...

  56. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    how will microsoft make it's money?

    not off you.

    or well kind of it will charge a tax on the windows store for all items that cost money.

  57. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsludge and their dishonest pushing of their bloated insecure dreck

    Like many victims of Redmond's malware-disguised-as-an-operating-system, I've installed GWX Control Panel, which does a useful job of preventing Win10 from infecting my machine.

    The fact that microsludge uses phishing-style 'important updates' to try to foist Win10 on people really gets my back up... so although it might hurt the feelings of the poor sod in Bangalore who has to read it (who is not at fault) I wrote this as 'feedback' on the actual update page for KB3035583:

    "*Stop trying to stealth-install Win 10 on my machine by hiding it in 'updates', you dishonest fückbags. I do not want, will never want, and will actively take every possible step to prevent, any installation of your insecure fückshower of half-thought-out malware on my machines. I have seen how Win 8 and Win 10 operate on other machines, and that is why I NEVER WANT IT ON MINE.

    If it wasn't for morons who use your Office suite (with whom I am forced to collaborate) I wouldn't have your bloated insecure spyware on any machine in my home or office - but given that I am required to have one Windows machine infecting my home network and rendering it insecure, I absolutely will not have my home network compromised any more than is absolutely necessary. That means nothing past Win7.

    Just fücking die, Microsoft. Keep trying to make Windows phones a thing.*"

  58. jason 7

    A big thank you to Microsoft.

    This underhand practice has made me a huge amount of money over the past few months. The number of roll backs, black screens of death, bad intel GPU drivers etc. etc. that I have had to sort out for customers that either did or didn't want Windows 10 has been incredible.

    Well done, thanks for supporting the little guy!

    The fact you continue to alienate your grass roots customers is another matter.

    1. psychonaut

      Re: A big thank you to Microsoft.

      yeah me too! but its still a fucking disaster

  59. Walter Bishop Silver badge
    Linux

    There is an alternative

    Smallest full feature Lubuntu Desktop, boot from the DVD and give it a test run.

  60. ChubbyBehemoth
    IT Angle

    Class action law suit for all the lost man hours due to unwanted upgrade

    Seems to me that having a class action law suit forcing Microsoft to pay for the amount of lost man hours due to this unwanted upgrade should be worth the investment of time and money from some law firm. How many did you say? 10 Million? 50 Million? It takes about a day to download this crap and reinstall the previous version. 3 days to reinstall all the software and get things set up the old way? Nah,.. not everyone uses diskimages. Hmm... 50 Million x 4 days at 500 US$ average per day. That would be about 100 Billion US$.

    Oh and double that just in order to not do it again. Ever. Well,.. sorry we couldn't find a jury that wasn't flaming with rage nor any judge that felt like stopping this nonsense for the rest of eternity. We expect you to pay by Tuesday or send in the repo men to take the batteries from your artificial hearts.

    1. Mpeler
      Mushroom

      Re: Class action law suit for all the lost man hours due to unwanted upgrade

      And don't forget treble damages...

  61. PK
    Joke

    I've just received an email...

    ...offering triple Nectar points on a Windows 10 laptop. Has someone figured that people want Nectar points more than Windows 10?

  62. VulcanV5
    Flame

    So how long will it be before . . .

    So how long will it be before M$ capitalizes on the captive nation of Win10 users it has acquired?

    Nothing in the conduct of this repellent outfit and its nauseating top management points to the existence of philanthropy and benevolence; giving away a Windows OS runs counter to every stunt it has pulled, every lie it has told, every coercion it has engineered.

    How soon will dawn the day then when (a) Windows 10 users can't get an upgrade because they haven't registered their credit card with M$ and (b) those stupid enough to bank with Redmond discover from El Reg the latest bilge from an MS spokesperson:

    'In response to feedback from our customers about how much they would prefer their already busy lives to be free from unnecessary disruption, Microsoft has decided that the confusing range of options about downloading and installing Windows Updates is to be brought to an end and replaced by a simple automatic Updates at a nominal recurring charge.

    'Obviously, as part of our commitment to ensuring our customers' computers operate as safely and as efficiently as possible, the time-consuming business of having to hide mistakenly unwanted updates will similarly be terminated. The confusing classification of updates -- currently Critical, Important, Recommended and Profiteering -- will also be abolished, substituted instead with the simple-to-read / easy-to-understand INSTALL NOW (though even this will not be apparent as everything we wish you to install on your computer will be installed on your computer. At your expense.)

    'Microsoft is delighted to be able to respond to its customers' needs in this way and to continue to provide a customer experience as memorable as it is unique.'

    Asked by The Register to clarify the meaning of the phrase "nominal recurring charge", the spokesperson eventually said:

    'The charge will be subject to variating alternativizations of update upgrade upsell scenarios mandated by extant issue identification and remedial initiation and / or original innovatory inter-relationship activity via customer credit card account unrestricted accessibility.'

  63. psychonaut

    the thing about 10 is...

    its actually quite good. after you put classic shell on it and turn off the telemetry of course.

    not that i run it, im 7 all the way till mid 2020. or until 10 gets fixed properly.

    the stupid fucking thing about the "upgrade" process is that noone in their right mind would ever do an in place upgrade. well, i wouldnt. always, always rebuild from scratch.

    i see a lot of borked 10 upgrades, but then thats part of my job.

    when i have a win 7 licensed pc i always suggest going back to 7.

    win 8 is rather a more difficult decision. noone wants 8 and ive never sold a system with it on, never will and i always discourage customers who need a reinstall to take 8 again. (exactly the same as vista). either pony up for a 7 license if they dont have downgrade right with 8 pro, or go to 10 (recently)

    10 is better than 8 in many ways.

    a fresh 10 install is often quite spritely, its a pretty quick OS, and it does make a lot of old harware run quick. but ive seen so many issues, with wifi in particular, on 10 that its just not ready yet.

    "a clean 10 install is better than 8, but not as good as 7, a 10 in place upgrade is worse than both" is my mantra so far.

    shame really, they really have fucked this up. i have discouraged my customers from doing the upgrade, pretty much as i would with any other new OS, wait...wait for others to find the problems, let it mature a bit, then go for it if you must. personally i like things to work and be stable, so im always behind the curve.

    but the whole forced upgrade debacle is just mind numbingly stupid. i hate what they have done and continue to do.

    i even blamed one of my customers the other day who said that win 10 had installed itself without their permission. i said, it cant have done, tyou have to say yes at some stage. they denied it. but it turns out that they werent lying, they "x"'s out of the upgrade window.

    anyways....ive still got 7 for four years. lets see how MS do in the meantime, otherwise i might have to learn linux

  64. tin 2

    Let's start going painting random MS exec cars green. Because they didn't opt out.

  65. Rasslin ' in the mud
    Linux

    I prefer WINE to Whine

    Move along. Nothing to see here.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I prefer WINE to Whine

      Windows staggers around as if drunk anyway, so it might as well be WINE.

  66. LiarLiarLiar
    FAIL

    It's all about getting your data

    microsoft's new cash cow is your personal data, they see how much cash google has made with it, and will do anything to get it.

  67. Uffish

    Thanks for the article!

    The only Windows computer in the house is my wife's Win 8.1 laptop. She has been patiently clicking the little red X on the reminder pop-ups for some time now (it was easier than delving into the inner workings of an OS I had set up more or less as she wanted some years ago and promptly forgot about). We entertained the fond hope that all of the telemetry that was going on would somehow bring to the attention of Redmond that an 'upgrade' was not wanted thank you very much.

    I read this article and warned my wife about a similar but slightly different pop_up that had to be treated differently. Sure enough, it arrived today but forewarned is forearmed.

    Whoever writes these pop_ups is a tricky little bastard isn't he !

    What the hell has dragged Microsoft to behave like petty criminals running a three card scam in a mean backstreet ?

    1. Colin 27

      Re: Thanks for the article!

      My missus just clicked as usual (telling her about different pop-ups is like explaining quantum physics to a puppy).

      Queue an unwanted upgrade, a PC that wouldn't load, and a restore back to factory install. Still, I *very nearly* got her to go to Linux (hers is the only windows machine in the house).....

  68. This post has been deleted by its author

  69. Neiljohnuk

    Microshite, a bunch of twunts.

    I had the inevitable phone call from my 75 year old mother in law last week, a very happy win7 user with lots of stuff on her PC set up for easy use she'd clicked the red X close button when Microshite suggested she update to 10. Through her tears of distress and angst I realised the machine had uninvited updated it's self to win10, sending my son the following day to undo said deed was the easy part, though her distress and tears continued as she feared she'd lost the lot. Backing up her system is beyond her so we do it every so often for her. Thankfully it rolled back when instructed to do so, and all the favourites, e-mail and the rest were restored...

    Now who's going to start a 'class-action' for all the older people, and their families who are their I.T. support network, for the distress that's been caused? It might just teach those twunts not to do it again if it costs them!

  70. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    lucky escape

    My 78 year old Father finally took the plunge and announced he was getting 'internet'. He has never used a computer so needed some help and wanted to buy a laptop. Instead i gave him two old computers to use on the understanding he would never type in any personal info in to them, nor Google phrases like Great t!ts or British birds...

    The first was an XP machine with antivirus and chrome, the other a PPC Mac mini with Tiger OS.

    After two hours he was used to the Mac but had given up on Windows.

    It isn't until now that I realise what a lucky escape I have had from win10 (the OS nobody wants).

  71. quxinot Bronze badge

    Ok, a completely honest question:

    How do you make 10 suck less once it's inevitably installed? For example, when supporting friends/family/etc that will wind up with the disease?

    Yes, installing linux is the correct answer, but that isn't a possibility for some due to gaming or some horrible devices that only have limited driver support or horrible users that can't find their backside with a flashlight + map + compass. Inevitably it'll get through, because there's a limit to how much babysitting I'm going to do to their installs.

    A start menu replacement, a better browser, and good firewall rules will prevent much of the irritation/telemetry/crap. But it's still a disjointed mess to use. Is there a tool that automates wiping the largest puddles of vomit off their machines, or am I doomed to do things manually?

    I'm thinking along the lines of PlanB instead of a condom, for once the damage is already done.

  72. conscience
    Linux

    Making the switch to Linux is easier than some would have you believe...

    I switched to Linux over a year ago, mainly because MS were messing with my Windows 7 install with dodgy updates with unwanted stuff so I'd been running without updates for a while (this was before MS killed the 2020/2023 Win7/8 support end of life dates on new processors - Grrr...). Even worse with a friend's Win8.1 laptop I support, even with updates turned off it still kept itself fully patched and up to date! I'd been putting off trying anything else as Windows had been OK enough to make do with from Windows 3.11 to Windows 7, but I wasn't prepared to use 8 at the time, or 10 when that came out and was planning to stay with 7 until 2020 until MS broke the updates and their agreement to provide security updates until 2020.

    So off to Linux, picked Mint (Mate version) as it seemed highly recommended and downloaded the live CD to boot from to check all my hardware worked - and it did work out of the box. I dual booted and kept a Win 7 install 'just in case'. Then I clicked install and not long later everything was done and it worked perfectly.

    However, rather than just experiment or switch between using both OSes as I expected to be doing, I've actually only ended up booting into Windows 7 less than 1% of the time ever since (without buying the latest Football Manager with the in-game editor for Linux, Windows is currently only required to cheat at FM with my old version of FM!).

    Largely because of the MS fans/employees on here saying how Linux won't run games and various other software, I had been expecting not to be able to do without Windows, but I found that to be completely misleading as pretty much everything I did before was still available, only working better than ever under Linux and faster with less hassle. THIS is what MS don't want people to discover! Common software like office software, media stuff, programming tools, creative stuff to make music or be artistic is all catered for, all free and usually better than Windows versions. As for games, it turns out that there is a Linux version of Steam, and the WINE software supplied with Linux even allows me to run the Windows version of Steam and the games that aren't yet available for Linux with a 100% success rate (so far).

    Obviously, if you rely on specific type of software then you should check it or an equivalent is available before swapping, but if you have the same experience I had then you'll be wondering why you didn't abandon MS many years ago. Even better news is that now there is no telemetry, no crap user interface, no forced downloads, my computer works much faster than before, doesn't reboot all the time, etc. etc.

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