Rules are for little people
Yeah there is little doubt in my mind that her server got pwn'd so hard the Russian's and Chinese needed a timeshare arrangement to ensure they didn't overload it.
A report by the US State Department's Office of the Inspector General (OIG) has found presidential wannabe Hillary Clinton did breach record-keeping laws – by using a personal server for work emails. The watchdog added she was not alone in the practice. The 89-page dossier [PDF] found that three senior State Department figures …
This whole issue is about a chicken shit so called crime. There are a lot worse actions than using a private email server!!!!!!! This whole thing is about the Republicans doing everything that they can to smear her. First of all, it is not Congress's business to investigate this. The FBI should do all of the investigation, not some know nothing Congressmen. So far, the FBI has declined to start an investigation. Just like the Benghazi Congressional investigation about the 2012, Congressmen keep it going year after year in hopes to make political hay. Shame on the entire Government of the US
This should not go unchallenged.
First, the report is from the State Department Inspector General, an appointee of the current President, a Democrat. It is not done by the Congress and is not by any stretch a Republican smear.
Second, contrary to the assertion, the FBI started an investigation some time back, based on an earlier referral by the State Department IG and others. That investigation is a work in progress without an announced completion date. Both the FBI Director and his manager, the US Attorney General, were appointed by the current President.
If Clinton were a CEO of a major company, she would have been not only sacked, but also facing a plethora of shareholder and civil lawsuits along with potentially facing criminal prosecution.
Its interesting to watch her defense of her criminal actions over the past year.
Under the espionage act law, you don't need to show intent to cause harm, but gross negligence. What intent you do need to show is that her actions were intentional. Setting up the server was an intentional act.
Using it to thwart the FOIA laws is motive. (Although there are more than one motive here.)
Then you have obstruction and perjury... So yeah, she's toast.
Interestingly enough, the most bizarre obstruction charge on record happened in a tech trading company where they guy wiped his server (really wiped it clean) destroying evidence. His excuse was that he was addicted to porn and wanted to hide that from his family. (I think he was fined a couple of million dollars for that stunt....)
If this were a small thing... she could have possibly skated.
You have over 2000 emails that contained classified information.
You have this guy Guccifer claiming and pleading guilty to hacking charges netting what? 7 years? in a US prison after he's released from his current time in the pen?
You have RT (Russian Times?) claiming to have more emails than what they published...
You have motive, intent, and mens rea (she knew what she was doing was wrong but did it anyway...)
And its not just her.
Her senior staff along with a couple of lifers are now toast too.
This is too big to sweep under the rug and there's what the FBI found that hasn't been released.
The IG's report damns her and taken with the existing evidence ... she will be indicted. So she'll see the courtroom. Jail cell? Depends on if Obama is still in office at the time.
She is in the stratum of people who escape imprisonment and other penalties. Just look at Richard "I'm not a crook" Nixon - time served? Zero. In the US there is the "President's Touch" - it is like the King's Touch in medieval mythology or the "Lord of the Rings", but in this case instead of healing sickness it provides immunity to prosecution.
In any case, it is extremely unlikely that the Attorney-General would prosecute someone who is effectively a former prez and a fellow party member.
I'd love to hear an example of a CEO getting fired for using the wrong e-mail service. Please tell.
This report actually specifically states no laws were broken, just state department rules. Rules aint laws friends. You'll have to figure out how to your HRC hatred satisfied. She isn't going to be charged with any crimes since none have occurred.
In looking at the text of the IG report I found no statement that laws were not broken. There were many statements, however, that State Department instructions ('rules") were not followed, and in particular, that they were not followed in respect of Secretary Clinton's use of a personally owned email system that was not certified and accredited. That fairly clearly violated the Federal Information Security Management Act (2002) as well as the applicable Federal Information Processing Standards written to implement it, both of which dominate any State Department instructions.
The departmental rules in State Department Foreign Affairs Manual derive from the laws that govern the executive branch in general and the State Department in particular. When the Department or its employees violate such a regulation they very often have violated an underlying law as well. That probably is for the Attorney General to say, rather than the Department IG, and may explain lack of specific statements about violation of laws.
As I said MONTHS ago, this would come out and it would NOT be what Clinton "said" it was. She lied then and lied now and doesn't know how to speak the truth.
She is and has been under a full investigation by the FBI as well as an internal investigation by the State Department.
More damaging info will follow. What she did is EXACTLY the same as what General David Petraeus did and he got drummed out of the service. Only she did it 2,000 times more frequently (treat classified info cavalierly and with disdain for any security rules, she did not sign the papers that acknowledge that she returned all classified or other US State Department info to the government. Aiding and abetting Crooked Hillary were Cheryl Mills and Huma Abedin Weiner and they are being interviewed by the FBI as well.
Clinton is and has been an outrageous criminal along with her husband and she is long overdue to get what she deserves! I hear an Orange Jumpsuit with BOP stenciled on the back has already been custom ordered for her.
The IG was told by the FBI not to pursue the legal aspect of the investigation because it could potentially interfere with their CRIMINAL investigation.
So at best, all the IG could do is to refute the excuses and spin Clinton created by showing that she broke the rules and leave it at that.
Note that the State Department didn't disagree with his findings. This has broader implications towards the FBI investigation which will at a minimum show that HRC and her senior staff (including Patrick Kennedy and other current State Dept. employees) should be charged with multiple counts of perjury, obstruction and violating the Espionage Act with gross negligence.
Keep in mind that HRC's server was set up and maintained by someone who was not qualified to do so. (Seriously check out the IT guy's CV). If you want to put a more interesting spin... This wasn't Clinton's first investigation that dealt with lost emails... Back when they were in the WH, there was a scandal and an investigation where somehow a lot of emails were 'lost'. Of course back then it was someone else and she too didn't have the proper credentials to manage a server or IT Staff.
The report does not say that, sorry. In fact the conclusions are that Clinton specifically broke several federal statutes.
The Federal Records Act lays it out pretty clearly: (18 U.S. Code § 2071)
(a) Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.
Now the Email server had the custody of records, that cannot be easily disputed. And Clinton did delete (and attempt to wipe) 30,000 or more emails. And the IG's report leaves in no doubt the question of whether it was "willful and unlawful"; it was.
And there are all the statutes on classified information plus the emails where they actually discuss removing any classifying headers.
There's no doubt she is guilty, but very little chance that she will ever be indicted as complete control over that rests with the Obama administration and the Department of "Justice". And as we all know very well, there's justice for me, and justice for thee when it comes to well connected political insiders. Clinto is above such laws, de facto, they don't apply to her or other members of the elite. So know your place peasants.
If she had been the director of the (USDoD) agency that employed me, she would have been given a blunt "no" and told to complete the system access requests to obtain necessary internal accounts. If she had persisted and actually set up the personal server, firewall rules would shortly have prevented access to or from it, for obvious reasons. Defense Information Services Agency would have acted pretty much the same.
As far as I know, the agency experienced only one successful attack through my retirement in 2011, brought inside the network on a USB stick an employee acquired at a conference. We chafed at the strictures (Google groups and other useful mailing list type resources were denied as "chat" and the security executive and CIO were totally inflexible in the matter, for instance). But we understood and generally speaking accepted the limitations even as we groused.
What amazes me is how the Americans are willingly ignoring the fact that she lied several times about such a serious issue (or blindly believing her when she said it's not a big issue). Espionage not a big issue in the US? Keeping confidential information stored in secured environments and by secure I mean following the standards and strict rules pertaining IT in the most sensible part of the government, not a big issue? Is it the Americans that are the sheep or us it me that was brainwashed when working on a military base?
"What amazes me is how the Americans are willingly ignoring the fact that she lied..."
It's not that we are ignoring it, there's not a whole lot that we can do that isn't already being done to her through our broken system. Short of dragging her ass out in the street and give her a short drop with a sudden stop...
@ Mark 85.
Idiots? They did not get to their positions by chance. Voters have put them there. Period. I have lived through the Camelot/Clinton eras, both dynasties are pathetic. One quickly killed a young girl the other continues to destroy the very ilk they claim to protect. People refuse to see the common answer, apathy puts the corrupt in power!
Let's also not forget that the DNC is just trying to complete their deal with HRC in return for her supporting Obama on his first go round. That meant that she was supposed to be unopposed this year and as an outsider Sanders wasn't obliged to follow. Unfortunately he's a bit too left for most folks on the D side but he'll get my vote come 7 June. In essence, there wasn't supposed to be a choice for voters in the D sector.
Equally unfortunate the R group thought it wise to put up a bunch of super-Christian
clowns clones and The Donald so not a whole lot of real choices there either. In the end I'll have Johnson or maybe even McAfee in the Libertarian party to collect my protest vote.
This is crucial because Foggy Bottom has stated she lied, violated various required administrative procedures, and broadly hints that she committed multiple feral felonies. Blowhard will have a field day with this and ramp up the pressure to indict her by ferals before the election.
Trump will not pile more on... he'll start attacking E Warren and Sanders along w Biden ...
HRC is now in their cross hairs.
She will be interviewed by the FBI and she will be boxed in due to her public statements she made on the campaign trail.
We don't know what the Feds know, but you can bet it ties her time as SoS back to the Clinton Foundation
Bears seen shitting in woods, and not even in a quantum-mechanical way!
Also, Kremlin-on-Potomac watch:
It is altogether likely that Gen. Keith Alexander, head of NSA from 2005 to 2014, neglected to tell the Secretary of State of NSA’s “collect it all” dragnet collection that included the emails and telephone calls of Americans – including Clinton’s. This need not have been simply the result of Alexander’s pique at her disdain for communications security requirements, but rather mostly a consequence of NSA’s modus operandi.
With the mindset at NSA, one could readily argue that the Secretary of State – and perhaps the President himself – had no “need-to-know.” And, needless to say, the fewer briefed on the NSA’s flagrant disregard for Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches and seizures the better.
So, if there is something incriminating – or at least politically damaging – in Clinton’s emails, it’s a safe bet that at least the NSA and maybe the FBI, as well, knows. And that could make life difficult for a Clinton-45 presidency. Inside the Beltway, we don’t say the word “blackmail,” but the potential will be there. The whole thing needs to be cleaned up now before the choices for the next President are locked in.
The most damning statement of the whole thing isn't against Hillary or anyone else, but the antiqued policy of the State Department. The only way you can be in compliance with State Department recording keeping policy is to individually print out (yes, on paper) and save a copy of every single email you send or receive. That sort of policy might have made sense when they first starting using email, since it was used sparingly, but today?
At least she provided her emails. Powell never supplied a single email from his tenure as Secretary of State, despite being asked to do so. But since he didn't later run for president, he wasn't the subject of a witch hunt. That doesn't excuse her, but it would have been fun if Powell had run for office to watch politicians on both sides have to do a quick 180 in their statements. It is always interesting to watch the verbal contortions they twist themselves into to justify vilifying an action when it is being done by "the other guys" but excusing it when it is one of their own.
The State Department recording keeping policy requires keeping paper copies of emails? Citation please.
Or was Hillary's delivery of 55,000 pieces of paper just a big FU to the investigators? Bury them in paperwork, make it impossible to just run a search, easy to omit anything you don't want them to see, no metadata...
And no, this does not mean I support Drumpf. At best Hillary broke the rules because she didn't feel like following them. At worst she broke the rules because she planned to keep anyone from seeing some of her State Department communications. And she's still the lesser of two evils. The United States is truly Fucked.
Once they dig deeper they will probably be able to throw the book at her.
She is according to many sources responsible for the slaughter of innocent men women and children at Waco..
Here is one of them...youtube has at least one...
Screwed either way.
Criminal Clinton who seeks only to broaden her power base and grow her bank roll.(how the Clinton foundation is not under scrutiny is beyond me)
Crazy trump. Who knows what he'll do. At least he isn't bought and paid for by the rest of the clowns in DC. Probably what scares them the most.
My husband is a liar and a cheat. He has cheated on me from the beginning and when I confront him, he denies everything. What's worse, everyone knows he cheats on me. It's so humiliating.
Also, since he lost his job 14 years ago, he hasn't even looked for a new one. All he does all day is smoke cigars, play golf, cruise around and shoot ball with his buddies and has sex with hookers, while I work so hard to pay our bills.
Since our daughter went away to college and then got married; he doesn't even pretend to like me, and hints that I may be a lesbian. What should I do?
Signed: :-( Confused
Grow up and dump him.
You don't need him any more!
Good grief woman, you're running for President of the United States!
Asked ... who?
Were told ... by who?
C'mon people. Yes, politicians lie down with pigs. All politicians. Some just manage to keep the stink down to manageable levels in public.
But the timing on this report release is not at all surprising to anyone is it?
So far, my reading of the report is that according to Fig 1 "Timeline of Selected Records Management Requirements and Policies" (which I am assuming contains the salient "meat" on the bones of this dog and pony show so that "interested" and "outraged" senators may get up to speed quickly), having a personal e-mail server and using it after (some unspecified time in) 2014 is ... still not illegal.
Copies of the e-mails just have to be lodged in an "official" e-mail account within 20 days (presumably of receipt but could be of acknowledging the e-mail by opening it).
Presumably, this means that somewhere there's a copy of the e-mails between Blair and Bush II concerning "credible intelligence" and the exact contents of the infamous "dossier". I digress.
As for the requirement to keep copies in a server of some sort, that appears to be a rather belated (in the same sense that a count of the lifeboat seats after Titanic had started sinking was belated) compliance with a reduction in paperwork policy.
I'm not a fan of Hillary Clinton, but I'm not a fan of bloody Republican politicians launching yet another public-funded attempt to find a Legal Hummer and deliver a Beaten-Up Yugo (once, out of however many times).
Vince Foster was a sad and depressed man who hung himself with no help from the Clintons, they lost money on Whitewater (again, not illegal, my retirement fund managers do it all the time and I can't touch 'em) and all we got from months and months of ultra-expensive hunting for High Crimes and Misdemeanors by slick republican-connected lawyers was a dick sucking (not illegal, but incredibly tacky).
By all means let there be an expensive and lengthy investigation of this e-mail outrage. But let those who would seek to benefit from it fund the bugger. I'm tapped out after Bailouts 'n' Bonuses and The War Against The Wrong Country and covering the bills due thanks to the fraudulent behavior of the insurance companies in the aftermath of Superstorm Sandy and the NSA alone knows what else.
Wait a minute: The NSA *must* have copies of all the e-mails involved. They are an unimpeachable data sink (just try impeaching them and find out for yourself). Problem over. E-mails copied when sent. Huzzah!
Having a personal email server and using it for official government duties might legal if it is fully compliant with (in this case) Department of State FAM regulations, FIPS requirements, and FISMA (2002). The equipment might have to be owned and operated by the government, although it is possible for a privately owned and maintained system to be fully compliant in technical respects; but there would be serious accountability issues with private ownership and operation, and it would take a CIO or CISO much braver than the one at State to certify one.
Hillary Clinton's personal email server was not certified and accredited for its purpose, and therefor did not (and would not today) comply with State Department and government wide IT regulations, or the law.
So much misinformation ! Whitewater was, at its heart, a ponzi scheme to milk Madison S&L of money to benefit a small group of people. Basically Madison was forbidden by federal rules from committing more than 6% of its capital to a single scheme, however those rules were broken by MSL advancing a loan of $600K for land purchases (legit)....plus a further $1.5M via a non-recourse "loan" to another person that was also used for the same purchase of land at Whitewater "estate". That purchase was for land in the scheme that was owned by MSL owners and promoters, so they got a tidy profit out. then the scheme subsequently collapsed and MSL lost money and had to be bailed out via federal insurance. Seeveral of the principals were prosecuted and convicted over the fraud.
Their lawyers for the scheme were from the Rose Law Partnership, specifically through the partner there, one Hillary Clinton. Investigators sought the RLP billing records to see when and for how long HRC met with the indicted conspirators, however those records were found to be missing, and evidence was given that two people, HRC plus one Vince Foster collected all printed copies of those records and then used the computerized billing system at RLP and deleted all such records from the system and any backups. Those records were not recovered at the time and were not available to the investigators. For the record, HRC (and VF) denied removing them when questioned. The case against the original conspirators proceeded and they were found guilty but HRC was not indicted.
After the statute of limitations on the case expired, a complete set of the RLP billing records were found in a normally unused upstairs room in the Whitehouse...yes, THAT Whitehouse, at that time occupied by President Bill Clinton and his wife. Later a second set was found amongst Vince Fosters possessions after his death. When examined (independently as law enforcement had no way to prosecute because of the time delay) those records showed that one HRC had met with the convicted fraudsters at times and dates that were material to the conspiracy convictions they received. Had these been available in time they could most definitely have been used to indict HRC as part of the conspiracy to defraud...the *successful* conspiracy to defraud charges note.
There seems very little doubt that HRC was involved in an illegal conspiracy that defrauded the federal government via the whitewater scheme and the resulting bailout of MSL. She escaped prosecution because of her political contacts and because the essential evidence needed to definitively tie her into the conspiracy was removed by her and co-conspirator Vince Foster. To believe that the RLP billing records turned up in the Whitehouse other than via the direct actions of HRC requires a mind-boggling level of wishful thinking given that a set was also possessed by VF.
I would suggest that the worst nightmare for HRC is that she doesn't become POTUS as if a Republican does they surely will have fewer reasons to exert political pressure to prevent the DOJ looking more closely at the Clinton Foundation(s) (there are several actual organizations) and it's money shakedown trades for political favours.
On the contrary, there seems to be so MUCH doubt about that very contention that NOT ONCE in all the publicly funded legal froofaraw designed to make a mountain out of whatever molehill could be found has any charge been brought before a court.
I'm not against you idiots (and I include you personally in that group since you chose to pick up the lance and charge) going ahead and investigating and convening panels and appointing special investigators. Go ahead, if you really think there's meat on those bleached bones.
But stop asking me to fund it because enough is fucking enough. Your co-conspiracy theorists include million- and billionaires. Let *them* fund the bugger and pay for the defense costs up-front too - to be recouped if anything can be found of course (but it had better be more than a stain on a dress if you want to dip your bucket into the Endless River O' Public Cash again) but given the numerous times NOTHING has been found, pre-emptively charged against the time-wasters to sort out the genuine Searchers For Truth from the time-wasters and public money-wasters and reduce the paperwork involved for yet another failed attempt to make anything out of what raw materials there are at hand.
If she is so guilty, why haven't charges been files. All I see is a bunch of conservative Congressmen flapping their pie holes in the wind. There hasn't even been a criminal investigation by the FBI. It has been almost 4 years since the Benghazi incident and nothing but congressional bull has come of it!
This has nothing to do with Benghazi. It is, however, the subject of an active FBI investigation with no publicly announced ETA. Guccifer, who claims to have hacked the system, and Brian Pagliano, Secretary Clnton's personal IT advisor (as his full time State Department job) and part time personal SA (his moonlighting job) have been turned and are cooperating in the investigation.
The conservative Congressmen have not, as yet, made much of this; it is the work of the Attorney General, the FBI director, and the State Deparment inspector general, all of whom were appointed by President Obama.
Charges have to be filed by the Department of Justice. The DOJ is part of the administration currently headed by Democrat Barack Obama, and is entirely controlled by the Democrat party. No one else, not the FBI, not Congress, not the police, can actually bring charges...they can't recommend that charges be brought but no more.
That entirely answers your question. If someone is a high Democrat grandee, they will NEVER be charged regardless of their crimes. It is not a question of justice, but of politics.
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