back to article Official: Microsoft's 'Get Windows 10' nagware to vanish from PCs in July

Microsoft's "Get Windows 10" nagware will be killed off in July, the tech giant has told us. The software has been worming its way into Windows PCs via Windows Update since last year using aggressive malware-like techniques and frequent pop-up reminders. It quietly downloads and installs Windows 10 automatically for you, and …

  1. flszen
    Trollface

    Removed How?

    "and eventually removed from PCs worldwide" ... by automatically installing Windows 10 on them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Linux

      Re: Removed How?

      "on July 29th the Get Windows 10 app that facilitates the easy upgrade to Windows 10 will be disabled and eventually removed from PCs worldwide. "

      Not any of mine it won't. --->

      Still, curious to see what M$'s definition of "eventually" turns out to be...

      1. Vector

        That needs some editing...

        Should read:

        ... the Get Windows 10 app that facilitates the easy tries to force the upgrade to Windows 10 will be disabled...

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Removed How?

        "Still, curious to see what M$'s definition of "eventually" turns out to be.."

        I wondered that too. About 5 years?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Gates Horns

          Re: Removed How?

          "I wondered that too. About 5 years?"

          I was thinking "when the W11 pressureware is deployed" - so about 5 years would probably be about right...

      3. Captain DaFt

        Re: Removed How?

        "Still, curious to see what M$'s definition of "eventually" turns out to be..."

        When Win 10 is the only MS OS installed anywhere, obviously.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Removed How?

      Wow along with Ted Cruz dropping out could this week get any better?

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: Removed How?

        Only if you believe MS. Note that "the details are still being worked out".

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Removed How?

          Only if you believe MS. Note that "the details are still being worked out".

          I assume those details are how to use it for the monthly charge billing.

      2. JetSetJim Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Removed How?

        > Wow along with Ted Cruz dropping out could this week get any better?

        Trump could drop out, too?

    3. Bob Vistakin

      Re: Removed How?

      Microsoft have said they want Windows 10 to be the last windows ever, and just constantly update it online.

      1. PNGuinn
        FAIL

        Re: "Microsoft have said they want Windows 10 to be the last windows ever"

        Well, without realising it at the time, they could well be right.

        POPCORN!

        1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

          Re: "Microsoft have said they want Windows 10 to be the last windows ever"

          Indeed.

          But assuming they mean they want it to live on, how do they expect to survive the loss of version control ?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Removed How?

        >Microsoft have said they want Windows 10 to be the last windows ever, and just constantly update it online.

        Microsoft have said lots of $#!&, what's your point?

      3. Colin 27

        Re: Removed How?

        So....

        Instead of 'The Ship Of Theseus' are we talking about 'The Ship Of Redmond'?

        Will Windows 10 cease to be Windows 10 once all its components have been updated?

        Enough of the philosophy, I'm off down the pub.

    4. Bob Vistakin
      IT Angle

      Serious question

      All things considered, is Windows 10 worse than Vista?

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Windows

        Re: Serious question

        "All things considered, is Windows 10 worse than Vista?"

        Worse? How would one quantify those disparate worsenesses?

        That's rather like asking "Is having razorblades poked up your arse worse than discovering the 'steak' tartar you're eating is actually the former residents of the CJD hospice across the road?" - they're different sorts of bad - but you definitely don't want either.

      3. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: Serious question

        Win 10 is much, much worse than Vista.

        Vista had a rough start with DRM and hardware makers (looking at you, Intel) getting the okay to sell PCs as "Vista capable" when they really shouldn't have, but it's evolved into a stable, usable product. The very popular Windows 7 is more or less Vista SE.

        Windows 10... it started as crap and it's still crap. There are no signs things are getting any better, or that they ever will with 10, since all of the things that are bad about it are designed-in "features". It still can't decide if it's going to have a phone UI or a desktop UI... the PC user gets a confused, senseless mish-mash that's half TIFKAM (in all of its flat, gray ugliness, with its massive controls and wasted screen space when used on a typical PC display) and half native Win32.

        Windows 10 still doesn't allow the user any control over updates installed, and most of the updates are still big monolithic things more akin to service packs than anything else (so you can't skip the bits you don't want; take it all or take none of it). It still refuses to allow the user to remove Cortana, Edge, Xbox, MS store, etc., through normal means, and it's getting worse, as now it won't even let the user switch Cortana to search engines other than the useless abomination known as Bing.

        Windows 10 still refuses to stop phoning home with its "telemetry," even if the user wants no part of it (you can't turn it all the way off). It still unceremoniously uninstalls programs it wants to with every update (it has a particular thing for Speccy, which works fine with 10 if you can get 10 to leave it alone), and it restores "apps" the user has removed at each update as well.

        Most or all of the things that are wrong with 10 are non-negotiable from Microsoft's perspective. It doesn't matter what the desktop users want, because 10 was not ever meant to serve our needs. It was meant only to use us as building materials to realize their new "Mobile first, cloud first" delusions. It's like we're asking MS to make us a desktop OS worthy to succeed Windows 7 on desktop devices, but MS (if we anthropomorphize it for a moment) is looking quizzically at us while it asks, "But how will THAT sell Windows mobile devices?"

      4. 1Rafayal

        Re: Serious question

        far from it.

        Windows 10 is an astonishingly good OS.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Serious question

          "far from it.

          Windows 10 is an astonishingly good OS."

          Very sloppy comment. There are very few improvements compared to Windows 7 and many unfriendly changes. Basically I can only tell its windows 7 with flat look.

          For example, Windows 10 and Edge browser can still not do proper color management with the advent of Wide Color Gamut screens available for the past 15 years and popularized with ipad pro 9.7.

          Removed Media Center, etc Removed customization options. The only improvement is that it easier to change lock screen background? Its a pretty dear price to pay for all the W10 problems.

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: Serious question

            far from it.

            Windows 10 is an astonishingly good OS.

            My son says as much and he is no slouch when it comes to OSs.

            Having said that, there seems an irrational fear of Linux. Because it was "difficult" a decade or more ago, it must still be so.

            A year ago when I made the decision to run Mint as much as possible, I didn't expect to be spending more than 95% of my time in Mint. On the few occasions I need to boot into W7, IMO MS's best OS to date, I no longer feel "at home".

            Ten years ago, I was spending perhaps 10% of my time running Linux and much of that was problem solving. The few issues I have had with Mint were mostly solved with minimal effort and most without recourse to running a terminal.

            On those few occasions that I used a terminal, I merely copied the requisite command line from a helpful web page or forum. No need to understand bash, or remember vi commands. Linux versions of most of my tools such as Beyond Compare and Password Safe exist. Others work well under WINE, or in a VM.

            Try it; you might very well like it. Or perhaps liking it is what you are afraid of ;-)

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Serious question

              I've actually gone the other way. I started with various flavors of Unix, System III and Ultrix (I said flavors) and then went via BSD and System V (hated it) through SunOs and too many Linux distro's to recall. Fluent with Vi and Bash also awk and sed plus yacc and lex too yet somewhere along the way I started using Windows because the Outlook client was better than raw mail and Word was so much quicker to use than LaTex. Rsh took me to a Unix box when I needed a shell but after a spell Cygwin gave me enough of a scripting environment and then PowerShell gave me something better as the pipes are object orientated so I could forget some of the more arcane awk tricks.

              I haven't felt a need to try out a Linux distro for years. Last time I needed one (building some bootable USB image) I had to battle with a very clunky Unity desktop trying to get a test window. No doubt the distros have all come on in leaps and bounds since then and I would be fairly happy with them and I could use Wine or a VM to work around some issues. But why? My Windows box is stable the patching just happens and everything I want to use just runs. I look at which Linux distro would serve me better and just see people arguing about systemd cinamon gnome Kde and it doesn't look better.

            2. Patrician

              Re: Serious question

              So you're proposing a Linux distro, specifically Mint, as a Windows replacement OS but at the same time stating that you need to run some software in Wine or in a VM?

              Doesn't sound much like a viable replacement to me I'm afraid; a "replacement" would be an OS where all software is available, installs as easily as it does in Windows, and command line "voodoo prayers" are not required for day to day operation.

              If I carried out a brand new Mint installation on a new PC how long would it be after the OS has finished installing that I would need to be using a command line and using such nice commands as:-

              "sudo add-apt-repository xxxx" instead of simply double left clicking on "setup" and clicking "next, next, next" etc?

              By the way, I know the answer as I've done just this over the weekend.....

              1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                Re: Serious question

                So you're proposing a Linux distro, specifically Mint, as a Windows replacement OS but at the same time stating that you need to run some software in Wine or in a VM?

                Yes, not much different to W7 Pro which allowed me to run two legacy applications in Windows XP mode. This didn't require me to have a standalone WinXP licence. W10 OTOH requires the installation of a VM and a standalone WinXP.

                I didn't get there however due to incompatibility with my video adapter, a fairly recent ATI based card made by ASUS. I attempted to discover if my spare was compatible, but MS appears to no longer make an HCL available. Apparently you are now expected to purchase and install video adapters in order to use a compatibility tool. It occurred to me that this might be a very expensive proposition.

                You can add repositories other than the official ones with the Software Sources tool in Accessories. Running "sudo add-apt-repository xxxx" is quicker, but if the command'line upsets you, you generally have alternatives.

                It may surprise you to know that Windows also has a very useful set of command-line tools, many of which have been there "for ever" and some more recent. Not "voodoo prayers" and much quicker than endless clicking.

              2. Chemist

                Re: Serious question

                "I would need to be using a command line and using such nice commands as:-

                "sudo add-apt-repository xxxx" instead of simply double left clicking on "setup" and clicking "next, next, next" etc?"

                Well I don't use Mint but I installed it to a VM to answer a query recently. It took ~20mins to install and then the GUI Synaptics could be used to install software and add repos. But as P.Git mentions it's not unusual and indeed encouraged to use the command-line in Windows anyway - so what exactly is your issue ?

        2. Ben 56

          Re: Serious question

          It is if you like candy crush and advertising every time you press the start bar, with a side helping of no update control and targeted telemetry advertising. "Hi I'm Cortana, I can see you're looking for anal fissure cream..."

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Serious question

        Who cares, if you hate 'M$' (dumb arse haters still think that's funny!) just don't use Windows 10 (or Vista) . Buy an Apple Mac and tell everybody how OSx never has any problems (ever, honest!) or install a Linux distro and maintain that the commnd line is where it's at in terms of UX sophistication. Or even better, get a Chromebook and just let Google control your life and slurp your data. So you see there's no need for any existential angst, just don't use Windows, simples ;)

        1. Dr Spork
          Megaphone

          Re: Serious question

          Believe me AC, nobody thinks M$ is funny.

          NOBODY.

          (well except maybe 1Rafayal - who seems to have failed to successfully deploy his "joke alert")

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

      6. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Serious question

        "All things considered, is Windows 10 worse than Vista?"

        Actually no. It even runs reasonably well on old hardware which struggled with XP

        The spyware settings can be disabled with a bit of work.

        That said, Lubuntu runs better.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Pirate

          Re: Serious question

          >The spyware settings can be disabled with a bit of work.

          So?

          Can you provide proof that all the spyware always obeys those spyware settings? Proof that those settings won't be "accidentally" (honest!) re-set (again) when you're not looking? ...and explain why the MSFT exfiltration software is hard coded to ignore any entries for the MSFT exfiltration servers which "customers" might attempt to add to "their" HOSTS file?

          1. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: Serious question

            "Can you provide proof that all the spyware always obeys those spyware settings? Proof that those settings won't be "accidentally" (honest!) re-set (again) when you're not looking? "

            I never take anything for granted. There's software around which will automagically check and _ensure_ that the spyware stays disabled.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Facepalm

              Re: Serious question

              >>"Can you provide proof that all the spyware always obeys those spyware settings? Proof that those settings won't be "accidentally" (honest!) re-set (again) when you're not looking? "

              >I never take anything for granted. There's software around which will automagically check and _ensure_ that the spyware stays disabled.

              So you entrust a third party to control a system which you know is designed to operate against your interests? That's an... erm.. interesting(?) approach. A sort of dual tier faith?

              How do you _ensure_ that third party never accidentally misses something, quietly keels over and allows your "protection" to lapse, or goes rogue itself? How do you _ensure_ MSFT will never work around that third party's product?

            2. Hans 1 Silver badge

              Re: Serious question

              > There's software around which will automagically check and _ensure_ that the spyware stays disabled.

              So, before, with WIndows 3.0+, I needed Antivirus, since 7, I need Antivirus, AND Anti-MS-Nag/Adware (GWX), and in 10 I need Antivirus AND "Anti-WX-Spyware".

              Please note that I must download "Anti-MS-Nag/Adware (GWX)" and "Anti-WX-Spyware" from dodgy websites and pray there is no AskJeeves or other "friendly" toolbar injected into the installer.

              As for GWX disappearing in July, it will be replaced by BWX, as in "Buy Windows 10, now!"

          2. energystar
            Devil

            Re: Serious question

            "Can you provide proof that all the spyware always obeys those spyware settings? Proof that those settings won't be "accidentally" (honest!) re-set (again) when you're not looking? ..."

            Well you're downloading BINARIES from Ubuntu Servers [Isle of Man?]

          3. Patrician

            Re: Serious question

            Can you provide "proof" that all spyware is stopped in any OS?

      7. Barry Rueger Silver badge

        Re: Serious question

        All things considered, is Windows 10 worse than Vista?

        I'll bite. I still use Vista in a VM to run bookkeeping software, and my partner just upgraded from an ancient XP box to a shiny convertable HP laptop.

        Windows 10 seems positively Apple-esque in its determination to make you do things in the way that it wants.

        In particular the assumption that touchscreen is everything. Problem one is that UI design that works great for a phone or tablet is nearly useless for a laptop.

        Don't get me wrong, love the touchscreen, but hate the UI.

        Problem two is that it's damnably hard to disable the tablety default. Finding the setting to change took ages.

        Our second big issue is with hardware support. Win 10 couldn't even find the networked HP printer, and didn't support it until a driver/software/crap ware pack was downloaded from HP.

        A USB connected Samsung laser also was not detected or configured - something that earlier Windows, and lately even Linux, does with great ease.

        Finally, the OS seems to crash about once a day. Googling the error messages suggests there are some widespread issues.

        Still, once you beat it into submission, and kill the "improvements" to make it like "classic" Windows, it's really about the same.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Serious question

          >Still, once you beat it into submission, and kill the "improvements" to make it like "classic" Windows, it's really about the same.

          Except for the espionage...

      8. Uffish

        Re: Serious question

        Serious answer - it doesn't matter, the problem is that Microsoft has consistently used Windows as a revenue generator, putting out new versions whenever they needed a fresh dollop of unimaginable wealth, not when they thought they needed to upgrade the platform for technical reasons.

        Their intentions for Win 10 are still purely financial, the technical aspects are, for them, irrelevant. For a user, on the other hand, it is only the technical (functional) characteristics of an OS that matter leading to a very uneasy relationship with the Vendor, which has now snapped in my (insignificantly small) case.

      9. Keith Glass

        Re: Serious question

        Well. . . when I had a Vista laptop, it had no problem connecting to several-year-old printers, right out of the box.

        Win10. . . .didn't recognize a year-old video card or a 2-year-old printer. . .

    5. Sebastian A

      Re: Removed How?

      Nah, after July it'll be replaced with nagware that tells you your PC is at risk and tries to get you to *buy* windows 10.

    6. Keith Glass

      Re: Removed How?

      . . .makes me glad I run Win7 Enterprise. No nags. (I bought my laptop when I left a company last year, as it was shutting down).

  2. King Jack
    Big Brother

    Telemetry Stays

    They will still leave this shit stain behind. I don't believe it as M$ cannot be trusted.

    1. Sebastian A

      Re: Telemetry Stays

      Did they ever state it was temporary? I doubt they'd ever imply they'd give up the juicy marketing DB that it provides.

  3. hellwig Silver badge

    Timing?

    " it will take time to ramp it down."

    So, will people be nagged to install a free upgrade to Windows 10 that doesn't exist anymore?

    And NO ONE asked you to ramp it up in the first place, so no one wants to hear your excuses about taking time to ramp down.

    All I know is that I'm still dismissing "Upgrade" pop-ups after numerous failed attempts to actually install Windows 10 on a tablet, so I really have no faith in anything Microsoft does anymore.

    1. redpawn Silver badge

      Re: Timing?

      The ramp down time will nag you to purchase an upgrade for your own computing good before earlier versions of Windows are crippled.

    2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      WTF?

      Re: Timing?

      " it will take time to ramp it down."

      It's like "ethnic cleansing" in that respect.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Timing?

      I really have no faith in anything Microsoft does anymore.

      Some of us got there about a decade nor so earlier. On the plus side, imagine just how much money that has generated: those deficiencies have been feeding a whole ecosystem from anti-virus to clueless consulting. Especially the consulting one is fun: what do you think they will recommend for deployment: something that is capital efficient and safe, or something that needs constant help and tuning from, say, consultants?

      Yup - got it in one. Personally, I think that's the real reason Windows survived in industry - too many people depending on it for their income to recommend anything else.

      1. David Pollard

        Re: Timing?

        needs constant help and tuning

        Windows was boosted not only from small hordes of people who earned a generally rich living from mending it but also by the hordes of teenage Mr Fixits who knew enough to help out users when they were baffled, thus boosting their egos and social status. Both groups had vested interests and neither would have much to say against it; and many users would accept what they said. Microsoft would have benefitted by maximising their gains as well as its own.

        Compare this with the situation where the software is truly first-class. Users don't need much assistance and don't replace their software as frequently. It looks as though Microsoft and its acolytes would, in fact, have been making more money by putting out optimally bug-ridden software.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Timing?

          It looks as though Microsoft and its acolytes would, in fact, have been making more money by putting out optimally bug-ridden software.

          Well, duh. Why else would you buy an upgrade? They've been running that scam for decades.

        2. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Timing?

          "hordes of teenage Mr Fixits who knew enough to help out users when they were baffled, thus boosting their egos and social status."

          As one of those (and someone who made quite a bit of money supporting Windows), I always made it clear to my customers that MS software was full of deficiencies and that there were alternatives - which either cost more (Macs "Just worked" in those days) or demanded more knowledge (Linux).

          Most of them stuck with Windows and almost all stayed as my customers. Giving them a bunch of HOWTOs ensured that for the most part they didn't need to call on me for minor stuff (although I had one who would call for help every time her husband minimized her programs - this was solved after a discussion with both of them. He ended up with his own computer)

          People stick with what they know and they choose what they know due to advertising and what everyone else they know is already running.

          It's the same reason people kept buying British Leyland products after the late 1960s when it was clear the cars were crap designs put together badly by a crap workforce - even when "japanese" cars built in towns just down the road (sunderland and suchlike) were far superior products and the workforce was motivated to do a good job of putting them together.

    4. N2 Silver badge

      Re: Timing?

      I really have no faith in anything Microsoft does anymore.

      What took you so long?

  4. Dwarf Silver badge

    Why July

    You've pushed and pushed and pushed and your customers (or more likely ex customers) have said No, No, No, NO, NO, yes, I'm sure I really mean NO, FFS, YES, IM SURE THAT THE ANSWER IS NO.

    Why don't you listen. Deactivate it today ?

    Oh and don't get any ideas of giving it a bit of a final push, that won't work either.

    Get risk of the spyware; get rid of he cloud; get rid of the App Store ; get rid of metro ;start listening and you might start selling stuff again

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why July

      If you don't want cloud, don't use it.

      If you don't want the App Store*, don't run it.

      If you don't want metro, don't install metro apps.

      Start thinking for yourself and you might find Windows 10 OK.

      MS aren't selling it, they're giving it away for free until the end of July.

      PS. they are listening - that's what the spyware is for ;-)

      * BTW, why don't you like the App Store given that Mac OS, most Linux distros, Android, iOS etc. all have app stores of some kind?

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge

        Re: Why July

        "Start thinking for yourself and you might find Windows 10 OK."

        As I saw someone else say in this forum, "Dear Mr. Pot, this is Kettle, please revise your statement regarding color". Or something like that.

        And I won't find Windows 10 'OK'. I gave it a fair chance a year ago during the 'insider' program. It failed to meet expectations, by a wide margin.

        But I DO agree, that they ARE listening [via spyware] as you pointed out.

      2. Dwarf Silver badge

        Re: Why July

        Dear AC.

        Tried it, several times. It didn't work for me - and that's someone who's done the OS journey since 6800, 68000, 6502, Z80 systems, DOS 3.3, NetWare 2.x and Xenix 286, System V and a bunch of other stuff. I even got on OK with Vista (OK, I've come out..). I know what I need an OS (even a small one) to do and it doesn't look anything like Windows 10.

        If you don't want cloud, don't use it.

        I tried that - it wanted me to make cloud accounts all the time, I said no, it said you cant do this without a cloud account, so a broken OS doesn't help me. Installed old faithful apps like Live Mail 2012, that sort of worked.

        If you don't want the App Store*, don't run it.

        It still there and adding no value as its full of junk and MS are still pushing to get vendors into it. Money should go to developers, not some protection racket for "distribution" and an easy route for other junk to get onto my machine..

        If you don't want metro, don't install metro apps.

        It still there with all the panes and eye candy I don't want and still pushes the "phone" flat bland panels that I can't see the edge of (take Office for example). Two solutions is a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde we couldn't make our mind up answer. By comparison, I made mine up, it said No.

        Start thinking for yourself and you might find Windows 10 OK.

        WTF !. I think, I represent myself with a handle, I justify my rationale when I want to. I'm not a coward publishing as AC MS Fanboy.

        Windows 10 sucks for the things I want it to do, hence why I don't run Windows any more.

        MS aren't selling it, they're giving it away for free until the end of July.

        The first hit is free. We've seen this technique used somewhere before..I didn't fall for that either. From calls I've had, it also seems that Mr and Mrs Average are also having similar problems, lost count of how many reversions to Windows 7 and installs of GWX Control panel I've done or conversions to Linux as its more than 30 days in

        PS. they are listening - that's what the spyware is for ;-)

        OK, I'll give you that one

        1. Marketing Hack Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Why July

          @AC

          So it's OK for MS to load people up with all this invasive, resource-hogging fluff, and its the responsibility of users and IT departments to remove this extraneous crap?

          Do you know anything at all about customer experience or the average IT user?

        2. Andy france
          FAIL

          Re: Why July

          To Dwarf

          It's good that you are not cowardly publishing as an Anonymous Coward. Just to be clear is Dwarf your first or last name? Lets face it we are all as anonymous here as a throw away email address.

          1. Dwarf Silver badge

            Re: Why July

            People can read my related postings and decide if they think I'm saying sensible things or not (its their choice). At least I stand by my opinion with a constant tag, rather than cowardly dropping views out there but not having the guts to be accountable for what they said. The word coward in the handle is there for a reason :-)

            As to why its Dwarf, it just is. It might be I'm short, Tall (irony), have a beard or a large chopper - or any combination of those things except obviously the mutually exclusive ones. Alternately, it could just be the first name that came into my head when the sign-up form said "Handle"

            So, whats your position on this topic - other than taking a pop at me ?

            1. Andy france

              Re: Why July

              No taking a pop at you Dwarf, well not much. Just bemused that people feel that someone showing as Anonymous Coward is hiding their identity anymore than any another non validated handle they can spin up in seconds. As to my opinion, I have six PC's in the household that I look after. Three of them are on Windows 10 one on 7 and two on 8.1. Two were very easy to update to 10 and one (a very old notebook that was not eligible for Windows 8 due to screen resolution) was a slight challenge as NX was partially turned off so the "Nagware" didn't at first accept that it could run 10. It always struggled with Windows 7 so moving it to 10 has extended its life. The remaining three PC's will be moved to 10 before July. They all have the system tray icon showing Windows 10 as being available but don't otherwise nag for an update.

              Am I a Windows 10 fan? Well it works for me. I see it as Windows transitioning from something that needs tech input to keep it running to a managed appliance. That's a good thing for most people.

            2. channel extended
              Happy

              Re: Why July

              Dwarf, as a fellow traveler in time. I started with an early S-100 box. I agree that people are funny about handles, mine is based on my number one problem for the past twenty years. Besides if I claimed the "True Sex God" some one would request citation, and I'm not that type of public person. My last version of Windows is 7 running in a vm. The last machine I've had running windows alone is a Windows 2000 box. Yes I had a bit of learning to do to get Linux running and to keep it running. I currently am using Kali for work and have used everything from LFS or Gentoo stage one tarball, to Ubuntu or Mint. All have quirks.

              MS motto is "There is a right way, a wrong way, and the only(MS) way."

              Linux motto is "There is no single right way, plenty of wrong ways, and your way."

              Pick your poison, position!

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why July

          I'm in the main with you on the responses, except for one small hitch:

          Money should go to developers, not some protection racket for "distribution" and an easy route for other junk to get onto my machine..

          Apple takes quite a hefty cut too from App Store sales (which is why some companies like Serif and the Omni Group sell both through the store and direct, with the "direct" versions having more capabilities because they do not have to follow Apple's sandbox mandate. That being said, Apple does check what gets in there, and given the volume I'm impressed with how few rogues slip through the net (but they occasionally do, which is why I still tend to check the originators when I buy, even from the App Store).

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC - Re: Why July

        If you don't want to pay for the WaaS subscription, just don't pay...

        What's that you say ? Windows 10 will stop running ? Oh, rats!

      4. matchbx
        Mushroom

        Re: Why July

        How about this.... I don't freaking want it.....

        STOP TRYING TO SHOVE IT DOWN MY THROAT!!!!!!!!!!

        is that plain enough for you to understand.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why July

        If you don't want cloud, don't use it.

        If you don't want the App Store*, don't run it.

        If you don't want metro, don't install metro apps.

        Start thinking for yourself and you might find Windows 10 OK.

        MS aren't selling it, they're giving it away for free until the end of July.

        PS. they are listening - that's what the spyware is for ;-)

        Yes, but what do we do if we don't want the spyware? No, its presence doesn't mean they're "listening" at all. Not to what I am saying to them, any more than me installing a camera in your bedroom counts as me "listening" to you.

      6. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        The Redmond Leviathan announces...

        "Start thinking for yourself and you might find Windows 10 OK."

        This politicial message brought to you from the bowels of the beast.

        1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

          Re: The Redmond Leviathan announces...

          This politicial message brought to you from the bowels of the beast.

          Ah, that explains the smelly breath :).

      7. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Why July

        MS aren't selling it, they're giving it away for free until the end of July.

        I'm sure enterprises and OEMs will be glad to hear that.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why July

          As the original AC of this thread, I would like to add that I have no affiliation with MS and I'm posting this using Mint MATE, but it wouldn't be fair on MS to be linked to my many controvertial posts on the Reg. I am most opposed to prejudice without reason, so don't take anything I said personally.

          It seems to me that the main opposition is to the intrusive Windows 10 upgrade alerts on older versions of Windows than to Windows 10 itself. If they insist on being intrusive, they ought to pick a specific time like when rebooting or when installing new updates, rather than randomly interrupting the user.

          As for Windows 10 "spyware", I recall MS put out a statement that with all the options disabled the telemetry returned by Windows 10 was equivalent to earlier version of Windows. For those who are paranoid there is Spybot Anti-Beacon from Safer Networking, or you can block the network packets. That said, anonymised telemetry of how you use Windows is arguably less intrusive than what Google collects about you from search requests, which is not anonymised and is used for targeted ads.

          Finally, some say that all publicity is good publicity, so MS may be thankful for so much media exposure.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Why July

            As for Windows 10 "spyware", I recall MS put out a statement that with all the options disabled the telemetry returned by Windows 10 was equivalent to earlier version of Windows. For those who are paranoid there is Spybot Anti-Beacon from Safer Networking, or you can block the network packets. That said, anonymised telemetry of how you use Windows is arguably less intrusive than what Google collects about you from search requests, which is not anonymised and is used for targeted ads.

            You can leave aside the quotes around "spyware". When we talk about Google, we talk about the Internet and we know we can filter for that (show me anyone who has a degree of interest in keeping safe and I'll show you the filters they have installed). In other words, we know we're entering a zone that is known unsafe and you protect for that in the same way as you would put on a hard hat on a building site.

            What Microsoft has done is far worse, because that's always on surveillance in your home and office. I don't care one whit that you can switch if OFF, it should never have been ON in the first place. Using the fact that you can switch if off as a defence is as deceptive as people asking you what you have to hide, where they are trying to make you forget that they first have to explain what business your personal live is of theirs (and explain why they don't reciprocate the favour).

            If Microsoft wants to spy on me, it should have at least been so kind to offer data in return. Show me what the CEO does every day. Let me remotely access everything he does so I can see what he gets up to with my data. After all, if they proclaim my data to be safe, surely they don't have anything to hide? If not, the activity on my computer is NONE of their business and attempts to ascertain that against my will I deem to be hacking, and thus a criminal breach of the computing laws that are now found in most countries to take hackers to Court.

            There are NO excuses for the practice, none whatsoever. There really is no way you could contrive to make this an acceptable default.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Why July

              Do you really believe your statement:

              "When we talk about Google, we talk about the Internet and we know we can filter for that (show me anyone who has a degree of interest in keeping safe and I'll show you the filters they have installed)."

              Do you really believe that you have hidden your search history from Google, and it doesn't know your phone number and where you live complete with picture and quite possibly details of your home Wifi? Perhaps you use gmail too so it has access to all of your emails and contacts, but if you don't use gmail rest assured it can probably work out your contacts and some of your interests based on email traffic analysis of the gmail users that converse with you. And Google probably knows a lot less about you that Facebook where people fall over themselves to throw away their privacy and that of their friends. No I'm afraid that privacy and using the internet have been mutually exclusive for a considerable period of time. The only filter that works is the off switch and that's a price none of us are willing to pay.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Why July

                Do you really believe that you have hidden your search history from Google, and it doesn't know your phone number and where you live complete with picture and quite possibly details of your home Wifi?

                Oh, I know for a fact that it has, due to the fact that plenty companies in the EU are currently breaking Data Protection laws by using Gmail as backend (without a valid Safe Harbor or Privacy Shield agreement they're exporting client email to a 3rd party without their explicit permission), plus they do the same as FaceBook: they slurp it from your friends, because Data Protection laws do not require any notification for that.

                However.

                Privacy is not an on/off proposition, just as security is not, it's something on a scale from totally private to totally nekkid (to quote Eddie Murphy) to the world. Just because one or two law breaking US monopolist do their damnedest to convince you that privacy is not yours to have is no reason to give up - if anything, it should be a reason to further fortify what you have left. There are degrees of privacy. Beside, it's quite entertaining to ask for reciprocity - the amount of bullshit they spout to avoid being honest about it is IMHO very amusing, but I do have a fairly twisted sense of humour :).

                For example, if I were to live in the UK you can bet your socks that I would go after the NHS morons that gave Google access to medical data, benefits or not, because it's quite simply illegal, and if they tried to bury that I'd go Max Schrems on them and run it all the way to the EJC. Illegal is illegal and remains illegal, no matter how much spin they want to give it and I am fairly good at derailing any bullshit train before it has even left its political station.

                There is a simple principle involved here: you're certain to lose this fight if you give up, which is what all these companies are pushing for. If you give up on the rights you are legally entitled to, they can take what they want and make vast profits at the expense of you and your family. It's up to you if you want that. I don't, because I know the risks that creates long term - it's my job.

                Now, returning to what originally prompted this discussion, it is thus NOT OK to have "features" enabled on a platform that people rely on for their personal and work information that export ANY data without the users explicit, informed consent. The default, certainly for an OS, should be OFF, and at best you could have a begging prompt that would ask if they could please, please have that data, accompanied by a full statement of what that would export, who would receive it, how that would be protected and how this can be verified independently (because past history shows that trust is something they really don't deserve).

      8. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

        Re: Why July

        If you don't want cloud, don't use it.

        -How can you be sure it is turned off, and an unspecified flaw in it doesn't represent a potential security risk which wouldn't otherwise exist?

        If you don't want the App Store*, don't run it.

        - Same as above

        If you don't want metro, don't install metro apps.

        That doesn't actually get rid of the 'metro-ey' features does it?

        Start thinking for yourself and you might find Windows 10 OK.

        Start using it, and you might not. You probably won't even notice that fact that it's broadcasting all your key-strokes over the internet or reporting back to Redmond with your usage patterns et al but you might do when some enterprising hacker manages to position him/her-self between your PC and the MS servers and slurp up all of your lovely data. You can't say this won't happen, and history suggests that the flaws to make it happen do exist.

        MS aren't selling it, they're giving it away for free until the end of July.

        'giving it away' in a very aggressive manner, akin to a representative from your local supermarket turning up in your kitchen and trying to get you to buy a 'better' brand of milk at 'no extra charge' every time you open the fridge.

        PS. they are listening - that's what the spyware is for ;-)

        I prefer my fundamental human right to privacy, thank you very much.

    2. MrTuK

      Re: Why July

      Just be patient, Vulkan is with us now, devs can now create Windows/Linux and OSX games with equal parity - DX12 will not keep up performance wise with Vulkan as it is a better API, Also due to Linux being more efficient OS games will have higher fps than Windows based games !

      Gamers can rejoice as Linux won't be forced on them, but if they want it, it will be around 2GB download and FREE :)

      So you can spend the extra dosh on your PC improvement - maybe ram or maybe an SSD or just flowers for you mom !

      Or you can stay on Win 10, with reduced performance via the OS but parity with graphics API as MS will undoubtfully adopt Vulkan ASAP aswell to try keep up with a higher performing Linux system on an equal hardware platform !

      And all because MS tried to force a spying data slurping OS on us.

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Re: Why July

        Or you can stay on Win 10, with reduced performance via the OS but parity with graphics API as MS will undoubtfully adopt Vulkan ASAP aswell to try keep up with a higher performing Linux system on an equal hardware platform....

        Will that even jive, with MicroSoft's big notion of getting the 'Big Boys' onto its (Cr)App Store needed to run at native speeds as one might expect from todays pov. Or the Universal Windows Platform as they'll call it, which is just another form of Digital Tax/DRM that'll be required to play said "Games" on Windows 10 or newer.

        Or have we already forgotten that?

    3. Chairo

      Re: Why July

      start listening and you might start selling stuff again

      Oh, but that is the whole point. They don't want to sell stuff any more. They want to rent it for a monthly fee. They are a commercial company, so ultimately they don't give away free stuff. Windows 10 will be payed for one way or another.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why July

        They are a commercial company, so ultimately they don't give away free stuff. Windows 10 will be payed for one way or another.

        That is a universal truth that more people should pay attention to. "Free" doesn't exist - it simply means you're paying with something else, like personal details.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    to quote Admiral Ackbar

    'Its a trap!'

  6. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
    Pint

    Finally...

    10 PRINT "Upgrade NOW to Windows 10!"

    20 PRINT "This PC is not compatible with Windows 10."

    25 IF Month$="July" THEN STOP; REM Stop damn it!

    30 GOTO 10

  7. Dadmin
    Thumb Up

    SatNad is my favorite M$ CEO EVER!!1!

    A long time ago, in a Silicon Valley not so far away...

    There live a little admin who had a decision to make; put Windows on my resume, or ignore this pile of shit completely and support any computers I get paid to support, but never, EVER claim to be a Windows Admin of any kind. In any way, shape, or form. I chose wisely.

    Now, normally I like to leave the Windows comments to the first party admins and it's been very fun watching long-time Windows people just throw their hands up and say, "fuck this thing, where do I get off?" Super fun, to be sure. Anyway, my point is this;

    I can honestly say I've hated Microsoft from inception right up until I got the first Xbox, which I like to call Xbox 1. At that point I could accept and even enjoy some of the stuff that is coming out of Redmond. But still, those awful CEOs. To be clear Bill Gates is kind of a douche, but that Ballmer... what a fucking idiot and useless asshole. SO VERY GLAD TO SEE HIM DEPART! Then this new guy shows up and makes me really, honestly consider Microsoft to still be in the game. Most everything SatNad has done is making me think they have a shot at holding onto their system dominance, at a time when I counted them out. Seriously, SatNad is a really good CEO and he's making some really big changes to a very large organization, and to get even a little traction is a success in my book.

    Is the force-feeding Windows 10 to every online machine a good thing? Of course not, that could be handled much better, but overall this is a new Microsoft, with a new leader, and they are looking to be back in the game. We'll know more if some real business successes come out, like Azure become a serious player using more of their own 1st party wares and letting people load up on whatever other OS they need, perhaps with some help from 1st party. No, as a longtime poo-pooer of M$, this new M$ has me keeping an eye on their moves. It's long past the "throw the spaghetti onto the wall as see if it sticks" time, there's not much more room for huge failures, and SatNad knows this. I still don't put Windows on my resume/cv, even though I build out some Windows Server 2008/2012 IIS/vRealize Automation crap from VMware, but I can admit it now, without shame.

    1. hplasm Silver badge
      WTF?

      Re: SatNad is my favorite M$ CEO EVER!!1!

      Taxi for Mr Poe?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Gates Horns

        Re: SatNad is my favorite M$ CEO EVER!!1!

        What the hell's wrong with "Dadmin"?

        http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/containing/2857389

        Is he in some sort of sprint to surpass RICHTO/Vogon and EDON's combined downvote total?... or an envoy sent here by beelzebub from the bowels of hell to torment us or something? :(

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: SatNad is my favorite M$ CEO EVER!!1!

          or an envoy sent here by beelzebub from the bowels of hell to torment us or something?

          Maybe he's Matt Bryant in shiney new clothes?

          1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
            Trollface

            Re: SatNad is my favorite M$ CEO EVER!!1!

            Maybe he's Matt Bryant in shiney new clothes?

            Can't be, there is no unwarranted dissing of everything Sun, no mention of "dead-end Sunshiners", no egotisitic strutting as "most hardcore admin in the West who always knew this" and no "Oracle did it first, Oracle is the best, the BEST!" ebullient enthusiasm for the red-colored House of Harkonnen.

            Dadmin is rather reasonable.

    2. Captain DaFt

      Re: SatNad is my favorite M$ CEO EVER!!1!

      Damn, That's a low hurdle to cross.

      Considering that he's the third, after Bill (Windows ueber alles) Gates, and Steve (Developers develo... Oh me too, we're dropping everything and doing that!) Ballmer.

      Heck, after those two, anybody this side of Carly Fiorina or Ted Bundy would look good as MS CEO.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: SatNad is my favorite M$ CEO EVER!!1!

      A long time ago, in a Silicon Valley not so far away...

      There live a little admin who had a decision to make; put Windows on my resume, or ignore this pile of shit completely and support any computers I get paid to support, but never, EVER claim to be a Windows Admin of any kind. In any way, shape, or form. I chose wisely.

      Is this attempt at grassroots support the best Redmond marketing could come up with? Given the wildly veering personality traits expressed in this post I suspect either a hefty snort of coke was involved, or it is the next implementation of Tay, the Microsoft AI that went rogue on Twitter.

  8. Andy Non
    Happy

    Gone

    The Windows 10 nagware on my Windows 8.1 laptop stopped immediately after I upgraded it to Linux Mint.

    1. Dwarf Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Gone

      How refreshing.

      .. like a mint.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Gone

      Not necessarily the best choice. Mint is OK ish but Ubuntu serves many folks better. I guess you don't play games on Steam or if you do the games you play don't suffer from the worst of the issues.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. tekHedd

        re "Ubuntu is better..."

        Uh... Mint is pretty much Ubuntu with codecs and different options for default window manager. Unless you're running LMDE I guess. Still. Passing grade for trying to be helpful, I guess.

        1. Michael Habel Silver badge

          Re: re "Ubuntu is better..."

          would it not be fairer to say that they're both basically Debian Wheezy?

      3. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Gone

        Mint is OK ish but Ubuntu serves many folks better. I guess you don't play games on Steam or if you do the games you play don't suffer from the worst of the issues.

        OK, I'll bite. I have been happy(ish) for nearly a year now running Mint on the recommendation of a friend (retired IT like me, but he's a Mac fanboi). It's, to coin a phrase, more than good enough. Good enough in fact that I don't enjoy when I have to boot W7 any more and until I was Minted was also "more than good enough".

        I did try Ubuntu/Unity 3-4 years ago and while it was good enough for most things, I was running it on a Netbook so Steam (Civ V) wasn't an option.

        IOW tell me more.

  9. mrtom84

    To be replace with...

    ... "Purchase windows 10 for only 19.99" nagware

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: To be replace with...

      Don't you mean $199.99 (plus tax)? or in the UK £199.99 + VAT as it is more than likely that MS will use

      $1==£1 exchange rate.

      Then is a year or so's time, it will be $9.99/month to keep on getting updates.

      {Prodly posted from a windows 10 FREE environment}

    2. Ian Emery Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: To be replace with...

      Surely it will be replaced with "Get Windows 11 now" nagware.

      1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        Re: To be replace with...

        > Surely it will be replaced with "Get Windows 11 now" nagware.

        No, it will be replaced by annoying "_Buy_ Windows 10 now".

  10. Florida1920 Silver badge
    Happy

    Finally!

    Microsoft is giving me something I actually want!

    1. VinceH Silver badge

      Re: Finally!

      No, it's taking away something you don't want.

      At least that's what it says it's going to do.

  11. Herby Silver badge
    Joke

    This just in.....

    Windows 11 announced for August. Windows 10 to include "Upgrade to Windows 11" software in a mandatory update. Details to follow.

    Yes, this is a joke, but is it far from the truth? One never knows!

    In the election season this year in the USA, I wonder if a teleprompter will spout an "Upgrade" dialog box in the middle of a speech. Now THAT would be interesting.

    1. davidp231

      Re: This just in.....

      It's happened on the weather report already so I don't see why not.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This just in.....

      Yes, this is a joke, but is it far from the truth? One never knows!

      The "industry" is now totally like the Soviet Union / The West / Russia / China / The Recovering Economy.

      There is no truth, anything can happen.

      We have now arrived at Radio Yerevan jokes

  12. Novex

    I'll believe it when I see it...

    ... so scuse me for being a doubting tommy, and as others have alluded to I bet the telemetry crap will still be hanging around, and I bet there will still be a paucity of details on what each update actually is.

    And will they fix the crappy slow 'checking for updates' problem on Win 7? Probably not...

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: I'll believe it when I see it...

      same here (I'll believe it when I see it). you would think that GWX would have that 'drop dead date' for the offer already built-in, or COULD have. A simple update to GWX that disables the popup windows would be sufficient. How hard could THAT be? or as someone else pointed out, just add line 25 "if past the date, STOP" to their stupid BASIC program that (as Calculon would point out) has an extra 'GOTO 10' line in it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'll believe it when I see it...

        <q>same here (I'll believe it when I see it). you would think that GWX would have that 'drop dead date' for the offer already built-in, or COULD have.</q>

        If they did that it would not take long for the word to spread that simply setting your device a year ahead would fix the nag problem.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'll believe it when I see it...

        same here (I'll believe it when I see it). you would think that GWX would have that 'drop dead date' for the offer already built-in, or COULD have.

        Given the quality of code that comes out of Redmond that ought to be easy to test. Switch off the NTP sync and set the hardware clock to a date beyond the cutoff point, that should trigger it...

    2. Florida1920 Silver badge

      Re: I'll believe it when I see it...

      Wrote a longer reply but some &^%#@! Captcha lost it. WTF Reg? Here's the short version: Set Windows Update to check automatically but let you choose which to install. I find it checks first thing after I wake up my slow HP ProBook in the morning and there's no effect on system performance. I choose the Important ones I need (don't need Malicious S/W Removal or IE updates as not used).

      Sure hope this Captcha stuff is an anomaly.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'll believe it when I see it...

        Trying to post over Tor?

        The Register Cloudfront HATES Tor.

        Something to do with pretending persecuting Tor users is "good security" or somesuch trite foboff.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I'll believe it when I see it...

          Trying to post over Tor?

          The Register Cloudfront HATES Tor.

          I had it once, and no, I don't use Tor.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I'll believe it when I see it...

          You can add PIA to the CloudFront hate list. (Off to prove my (non?)humanity. Inhumanity? Whatever!)

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I'll believe it when I see it...

          Trying to post over Tor?

          Cloudfront HATES Tor.

          Something to do with pretending persecuting Tor users is "good security" or somesuch trite foboff.

          As far as I can tell, the only visitors from Tor nodes to the websites that I run seem to be idiots trying to hack the sites in all sorts of ways, so I can't fault them for that. If there was a service that was *affordable* that would auto-ban Tor nodes from Wordpress, Drupal and Joomla I'd install it immediately.

    3. adnim Silver badge

      Re: I'll believe it when I see it...

      "And will they fix the crappy slow 'checking for updates' problem on Win 7? Probably not..."

      Not while MS telemetry servers are hogging bandwidth sucking data from all the users who fell for Windows 10. + those who failed to notice the telemetry updates to Win 7...

      ads.bing.com Forbidden Domain

      adserver.bing.com Forbidden Domain

      win.data.microsoft.com Forbidden Domain

      vortex-win.data.microsoft.com Forbidden Domain

      settings.data.glbdns2.microsoft.com Forbidden Domain

      Is there a comprehensive list of MS domains to block... maybe I should just block their whole IP address space... Still using Win 7 though on one machine. Old habits die hard.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: I'll believe it when I see it...

        The Windows 7 slow updates doesn't affect Vista, though. If it was really a function of the update servers being busy, I'd expect slowness across the board. But Vista is not eligible for the free update, and it's not the "new XP" that no one wants to give up like 7...

  13. moiety

    10 Immutable Laws of Security

    Law #1: If a bad guy can persuade you to run his program on your computer, it's not your computer anymore

    https://technet.microsoft.com/library/cc722487.aspx

    ...made me laugh anyway.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 10 Immutable Laws of Security

      May I add:

      "If you feed data into an overly powerful ad-hoc interpreter, it's not your interpreter processing the data, it's the data controlling your interpreter. "

      Always consider this when slurping stuff from untrustworthy sources.

    2. N2 Silver badge

      Re: 10 Immutable Laws of Security

      Made me laugh too

      The bad guy is Microsoft.

  14. J J Carter Silver badge
    Trollface

    Inevitably...

    We'll have the usual suspects whining that evil MSFT has taken away the chance for a freebie.

    1. Carl D

      Re: Inevitably...

      >> We'll have the usual suspects whining that evil MSFT has taken away the chance for a freebie. <<

      -J J Carter.

      Once again, Windows 10 was never a 'freebie'.

      People who 'upgraded' have already paid for their Windows 7 or Windows 8 licence.

      Its like the good old "2 for the price of 1" offer. They say you pay for one and get one free.

      But, I look at it as you get 2 for half price. Nothing is actually free.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Inevitably...

      Nope, Windows 10 is more a shareware OS… a shareware OS that people will soon start paying for one way or the other.

    3. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Inevitably...

      Hello, J. J. trollosaurus vulgaris.

  15. keithpeter
    Linux

    Trying to get the virus

    I have this Dell Latitude E5420 boat anchor of a laptop (i5, 3Gb, HD3000 graphics) with Windows 7 for recycled computers on it. I'd quite like to try Windows 10 on it for lutz, giggles and the UI experience. I can't seem to get any updates even though the product code was fine and the installation was activated. Windows Update just does the going round in a circle thing.

    What are my options for getting a freebie Windows 10 installed? I recollect that it was possible to download an ISO of the appropriate version and initiate an install. Any Windows commentards care to sort me out?

    1. frank ly Silver badge

      Re: Trying to get the virus

      Last September, I got a recycled Win 7 Pro SP1 licence and installation DVD, did the install on my desktop, and went through three months of update hell before it eventually asked me if I wanted to upgrade to Win 10. I said yes and it did, so I now have Win 10 'capability'. Maybe if you leave it running and connected to the internet it will get there eventually.

      As for Win 10 itself, I've installed three programs (yes, programs, not applications!) that don't run well under WINE if at all. It seems to work and it looks 'modern'.

      1. keithpeter
        Linux

        Re: Trying to get the virus

        "Maybe if you leave it running and connected to the internet it will get there eventually."

        @frank ly: OK I'll try it - just leave the thing on all the time. Perhaps we can bottle up whatever it is that is preventing the updates from working and sell it to the others on this forum :-)

        I use Windows 10 for Education at work and it does seem to run OK on low end hardware.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Trying to get the virus

          You don't have to wait for Windows update, just grab the installer from

          https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-10-upgrade

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Trying to get the virus

      Go onto Windows update and install all the patches. Leave the fully patched machine on for several hours as the Windows 10 upgrade adviser only seems to run on an idle PC. Go back to Windows update and run it again. You should now have a "recommended" update that if you select to install will first ask if you are sure then move you to 10.

      1. keithpeter
        Linux

        Re: Trying to get the virus

        @AC1: yes, I've downloaded the GetWindows10-Web_Default_attr executable and ran it and gone through the first few screens. I'm at the Getting Updates screen and it has been checking for updates (0%) for the last three hours. Yes the internet connection is fine. Yes, the product ID is valid and the install has been validated.

        @AC2: the problem that I seem to be having is that Windows Update just sits there for days not finding any updates, so I can't complete the first stage of the process you suggest. This install has been validated &c. Same appears to be happening while trying the Windows 10 installer (see reply to AC1)

        Moral: if you want to avoid forced upgrade to Windows 10, just get a copy of Windows7 for refurbished PC.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Beware

    ...on July 29th the Get Windows 10 app that facilitates the easy upgrade to Windows 10 will be disabled

    It might mean :

    "We've tried the easy way, and you're still holding out. So we're going to have to do it the hard way ..."

    Which never ends well for the victim.

    1. A Ghost

      Re: Beware

      Made me think of Basil Fawlty thrashing his Mini, shouting:

      Right! I warned you! You wouldn't listen. Right.

      You're in for it now. I tried. But no. This is YOUR fault!

      Then again, not sure how microsoft could thrash my computer more than they already have done the last 6-12 months. It downloads 40GB per month and I still haven't figured out a way to stop it yet, even though I have found and 'hacked' scripts from the net that stops it and deletes the download. Just haven't figured out a way to stop it from 'keeping' doing that.

      Never ascribe to incompetence what can be ascribed to malice. That's microsoft for you. Malicious bastards. They'd probably send the boys round to break your legs if they thought they could get away with it. I wouldn't put it past them, I honestly wouldn't.

      Still, gonna be popcorn time when the piper stops playing because he's not getting paid.

      Then, true hilarity will ensue.

      1. JLV Silver badge

        Re: Beware

        Really? 40GB? Not really doubting you, but I am surprised they haven't been class-actioned from folks on limited ISP download quotas.

        Anyone else have similar numbers?

        1. MrT

          Re: Beware

          In the month leading up to launch, two of the three laptops here gave the incompatible hardware error for graphics. Though I pushed one to use the old Vista drivers after an upgrade to W10 (and the old December 2008 files worked fine) it wasn't a brilliant experience and I rolled it back to W7pro.

          Until I set a registry key to block OS upgrades on the pair I initially kept deleting the hidden W10 download folder, which of course kept refilling. I reckon each did so around 6-8 times, even on the one that had rolled back, with the folder reaching 4-4.5GB (W7HP and W7pro fetched different amounts). I was a bit annoyed that the roll-back option didn't set a "never bother me again" flag. I'd put the estimate of total downloaded at about the 35-40GB mark, although that was down to me trying to never let the download complete by deleting it as it went.

          I later used GWX Control Panel, which does a much better job than my hack effort.

          I upgraded the third laptop without much fuss, but since the last major update for all the non-admin user accounts it's gradually binned all the built-in apps and now won't open the start menu. It's taking more looking after than both the others together, though YMMV and I know folk who haven't had problems like that.

    2. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re: Beware

      So whos the 'Victim' here then? Us who have deprived MicroSoft of any meaningful revenue stream, be it via WaaS, Adware click bait etc.... Since moving on the greener pastures of Mint, or them?

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    DEATH clOCK

    will you please put a clock online Mr Microsoft, counting down the weeks, days, hours, minutes and seconds of the 'nagwares' demise?

  18. bazza Silver badge

    Dilemna

    You see, I don't want Windows 10, quite happy with 7. But I do want 10's Linux runtime - it might be a nice way to do Linux things without having to deal with the madness of Linux distro anarchy. Oh MS, why do you do this?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Dilemna

      So, the present anarchy of Windows is fine but the "anarchy of Linux" isn't ?

      You could re-phrase this as "Linux gives you a choice" and you could understand that distributions come from various sources. (think trees), so you pick the one that works best for you.

      I suggest you choose something Debian based (Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, etc) and spin up a VM if you want, its trivially simple, you might even LIKE the Linux Things and decide, to take it further.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @bazza - Re: Dilemna

      Linux runtime in Windows 10 ? Let's not be silly, shall we ?

      Use any version of Windows you like, a free virtualization software and install a full blown Linux distro of your choice for a complete user experience.

      1. bazza Silver badge

        Re: @bazza - Dilemna

        "So, the present anarchy of Windows is fine but the "anarchy of Linux" isn't ?

        You could re-phrase this as "Linux gives you a choice" and you could understand that distributions come from various sources. (think trees), so you pick the one that works best for you.

        I suggest you choose something Debian based (Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, etc) and spin up a VM if you want, its trivially simple, you might even LIKE the Linux Things and decide, to take it further."

        Er, I don't think that the entire pantheon of Linux distributions comes anywhere near close to being "organised" or "coherent". I'm a long time Linux user and I'm seriously pissed off with the myriad different ways trivial things are done. Want a package manager? Here's 3, maybe 4. Maintaining software packages for all of them is a royal pain in the arse, so many don't and then we end up with the mess that is tarballs. Choice = pain in the neck. I'm sorely tempted to go off to FreeBSD, where at least there is a lack of chaos. And Windows, fragmented as it is at the moment, is in a lot better condition than the entire Linux ecosystem. They can't even agree how processes should be loaded at boot time!

        "Linux runtime in Windows 10 ? Let's not be silly, shall we ?

        Use any version of Windows you like, a free virtualization software and install a full blown Linux distro of your choice for a complete user experience."

        And why not? From the point of view of running Linux software, who really cares whether there's a Linux kernel underneath it? The prospect of running the few Linux programs that I need natively under Windows is a lot more attractive than running a complete and bloated Linux distro in a VM (which is what I already do, several times over), and a whole lot more reliable than getting Office, etc. working under Wine. I could also run Linux software natively on Solaris or FreeBSD (I'd prefer solaris, but the GUI is looking very tired these days).

    3. GrumpenKraut Silver badge

      Re: Dilemna

      > ...the madness of Linux distro anarchy.

      The 1990s want their FUD back.

    4. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re: Dilemna

      Linux Anarchy? Oh wow... Not counting stuff like Arch, or Gentoo, neither of which seem to conform to any known standard that I know of, there's what? Those Linuxes that fall behind Readhat (yum), and or those that fall behind Debian (apt-get).

      So which side did MicroSoft fall into bed with? Assuming it was say Redhat, as I suspect it was. How is this gonna make me a Debian user, any happier, when I have to go and re-relearn all the differences Redhat have nurtured. At the cost of my built-up Debian knowledge.

      I kinda get what your getting at, but I still think your missing the point.

      But, if it means that I could continue to type in 'ls' instead of the longer 'dir' (What can I say I'ma lazy bastard!), then I'm all for this improvement.

      1. bazza Silver badge

        Re: Dilemna

        So which side did MicroSoft fall into bed with? Assuming it was say Redhat, as I suspect it was.

        They've kinda fallen in with Ubuntu. But it's mostly irrelevant; all they've done is implement a Linux kernel system interface (the spec of which is very stable), they just happened to plonk down a bash and other binaries borrowed from Ubuntu's repositories. But you could equally well get binaries from Redhat's repository, or any one else's. Ultimately it's simply a case of which package manager one chooses to use.

        But in terms of what you're having to learn, well you're mostly unlearning Debian / Redhat / etc. Apart from choosing from where binaries come from there's no Linux distro as such; no SystemD / init, no desktop, nothing.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Linux is good as

    an OS for smartphones, tablets, satnavs, servers, routers and myriad home entertainment devices but face it Penguin fans, the consumer never wants to interface with it directly.

    Unless you are an enthusiast or IT Pro, Linux is fugly which is why consumer desktops and laptops preloaded with it have achieved abysmal sales.

    It's never going to happen.

    Interesting how a lot of the enthusiasts seem to be running it on circa 2005/6 laptops, hardware has moved on leaps and bounds since then, I mean we have quad core CPUs and everything.

    Nope I'm not a fanboy of Windows, Mac or anything else for that matter, I use and support whatever is best for the particular job, a personal computer (running Windows/Mac or Linux) is a tool, just like a hammer or drill, nothing more, I really don't see the point of spending one's life arguing for a specific platform.

    I do think MS handled this badly, but all software and service companies are likely to do something we disagree with from time to time.

    I also think the enforced auto updates are an attempt to clean up Windows' image of being full of security issues which is partly due to MS being slow to release updates in time gone by and partly the fault of users for failing to install them as it took too much time, broke ancent insecure version of whatever package they were running and couldn't be arsed to upgrade.

    Those that fail to keep software up to date with security fixes put the rest of the net at risk.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Linux is good as

      "Linux is fugly"

      Citation needed. Given that there are several alternative desktops this seems to be a rather remarkable generalisation.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Linux is good as

        And Windows 10 isn't ??

      2. Andy france

        Re: Linux is good as

        I don't think he needs a citation. As you say yourself there are several alternative desktops and the very public distro flame wars make it quite clear that many supporters in one group think some alternatives are fugly.

        Similarly no citation is required to support his statement that the general public has largely ignored Linux based PC's and they are the preserve of IT folks albeit with some spill over to friends and family. This should be abundantly clear to all. The big question is why.

        I personally believe that this is not because of it being perceived as fugly or any shortcoming of Linux. My observation is that having so many distros to choose between is bewildering for the general public. The arguments for and against each are too technical, bitter and hard for them to follow. They are scared to make the wrong choice so they play safe, follow the crowd and go for Windows. No matter what Microsoft does to alienate its customers the Linux community is managing to offer them a less attractive option.

        1. Michael Habel Silver badge

          Re: Linux is good as

          I personally believe that this is not because of it being perceived as fugly or any shortcoming of Linux. My observation is that having so many distros to choose between is bewildering for the general public.

          Pretty much sums it all up here. Also OEMs lacking the balls to stand-up to MicroSoft, and shipping / pushing Linux as an alternative cheaper OS should be noted.

          But, there-in is the catch... And, thats why Apple in its own way succeeds PC's were, and are probably being sold as 'Appliances' that should get tossed every few years, for new ones. Games, and Freaks, will instead to 'Upgrade' such components at will, and get on with it. e.g. -Broom Theory-

          But, Windows Users, are not Computer users. I would suspect the majority of these never so much heard about, much less ever used an 8-bit System, like the Commodore, TRS80, or a ZX Spectrum. Which was one ot the things I had always hated about MicroSoft. and that is.

          That its simple.

    2. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Linux is good as

      Those that fail to keep software up to date with security fixes put the rest of the net at risk.

      ROFLMAO! I just did my second security update on Mint and it took a matter of minutes and no reboot required. One "security update" on W7 consumed all of my expensive mobile data allowance to duplicate the W10 DL I had already done via my fixed Internet connection. So how does MS consuming all of my mobile download allowance "reduce the risk" for other Internet denizens? I sincerely hope that if you call yourself a computer professional that nobody believes you.

    3. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Linux is good as

      "the consumer never wants to interface with it directly" except with their "smartphones, tablets, satnavs, servers, routers and myriad home entertainment devices".

      "Linux is fugly". ROTFL. I get comments from people looking over my shoulder who think its pretty, but AFAIK, you can still put your choice of background images on various versions of Windows and get similar comments. The fun part comes when changes are made to one of the major user interfaces. You will hear screaming from penguins and windows users alike. The difference is that on Linux, there is a wide choice of user interfaces, and the screamers shut up when they switch to an interface that suits them. Windows users scream for longer, whine then grumble on in a foul mood because they are locked in to a single supplier who could not please everyone all the time even if they tried.

      "abysmal sales" only if you discount "smartphones, tablets, satnavs, servers, routers and myriad home entertainment devices". The PC market is in decline, but if you want to focus on that, there have been plenty of reasons why pre-installed Linux on a PC have been almost non-existent: lack of crapware for Linux (used to) cause a price difference. No commission for MS Office / AV sales for Linux (a pity MS cannot run a successful App Store). Penguins prefer to install their own software to avoid pre-installed spyware. Many distributors now openly sell blank machines. They clearly see it is worth the effort to sell to penguins.

      I too find it interesting that lots of penguins use "circa 2005/6 laptops". It is almost as if hardware has been fast enough for a decade (if you have decent software). A third hand machine that would otherwise have been junked gets the job done and is no great loss if it gets pinched or perforated while away from home. (We had quad core processors in 2006 too)

      Thank you for taking the time and trouble to argue about a specific platform. I prefer to argue about a specific license. You could buy a time limited license linked to particular hardware, a second site-wide second license because the first one does not cover your actual use case and a third company wide license in case any of your sites miscounted the number of licenses they need. Or, you could install Linux on any number of machines, use them from any purpose and stop bothering to track which computers have licenses for what software.

      I never thought Windows 10 was about security. Older versions are still getting updates. I thought it Microsoft switching to new revenue streams. Even Windows users have noticed that an old machine is fast enough, and are not buying new machines with new licenses as fast as Microsoft require. The new revenue streams are home (free/advert supported) and business (rental). Advert revenue requires spyware, and I expect that will be available on all versions (or the only version with your choice of version number). Rental appears to require you to give your credit card number for a cloud service. I assume the regular internet connection is required to check the clock has not been set back, and that the last payment arrived on time before allowing access to your data.

    4. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re: Linux is good as

      Hay there Son, hold up a second... Wouldn't'cha know it but, we had those shiny fangled Quad Core (Core2Duo's), back in 2aught6 as well. I'll grant'cha it's probably missing a few doohickeys that your i7 has.. Like UEFI, and Secure Boot for a start.

      And wouldn't'cha know it I have no particular reason as to why these are sooo great? Though a step up from 2.5Ghz to say 4+ Ghz plus being able to use 32GB's of DDR3 RAM (Ya'know for Linux-y stuff), would make a tempting upgrade.

      As it is though I can afford to wait the +5h's that it takes to compile my own CyanogenMod Build on this old arsed Black Box.

  20. Chemical Bob
    Trollface

    The solution is simple

    Just keep your Win7, 8, 8.1 computers turned off until after July 29. What's so hard about that?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The solution is simple

      Easy! By then I won't have any Windows installations left. GWX finally managed to infest my laptop despite contortions to prevent same. Server/workstations all going FreeBSD. Now desktop/laptops as well (even if features fail).

      N.B. - Middle-fingers extended, as in stereo, would be a nice icon to have.

  21. JLV Silver badge
    Meh

    Win 8.1 is enough to make one pine for man pages (almost).

    You know, I'll probably upgrade to Win 10 before then. Have to make an appointment to an MS store to do so, Win 10 Pro-from-Win 10 Home having its own weird behavior.

    Why? Well, much as I preferred XP and Win 7, I loathe Win 8.1 on my laptop. Granted, I use it 10% of the time and only to run a set of tools that is Windows-only. But every time I run it I am flabbergasted by how useless Win 8.1 design is, even layered over with Classic Shell.

    As a quick example, I still haven't found a way to pin/shortcut the wifi preferences dialog anywhere. It's Charms-on-the-side-every-time for you baby. I've also found cases where Win 8.0 configuration howtos, needed because the stuff is so counter-intuitive, do not apply to Win 8.1 because they mangled the UI once again (with scant improvement).

    Enough to make one pine for man pages (almost). Seriously, say what you want for command line arcana, but once you've figured it out, it's easy to document and it's likely to remain relevant even when the OS gets upgraded. Maybe I need to get Powershell-savvy?

    I hope, but have no great expectations, that Win 10 will be better than 8.1. I have better expectations about being able to turn off most of its telemetry. In any case, it's been a long time since I've entrusted any sensitive info on a Windows machine, aside from my email credentials. Used to be because of the malware potential, now it's gonna be because of their spyware.

    Regardless of how I feel about XP and 7, in most situations I fear they will become progressively more obsolete at the driver and security level. It's either jump on board or ditch Windows altogether. I happen to need Windows professionally, even if it's only for a tiny fraction of what I do.

    So, I'll take the big jump to 10, over 8.1 and I will do it for free rather than paying Redmond for their newer abominations.

    YMMV.

    1. MrTuK

      Re: Win 8.1 is enough to make one pine for man pages (almost).

      My goodness, I felt so much pity for you while reading this - But the penny dropped all of a sudden, Ubuntu running Win 7 or Win 10 in a VM - simple.

      Since you only need it professionally, its not Games so that will be fine, just assign either 50% of you CPU power to that particular VM or more if you really require it.

      1. JLV Silver badge

        Re: Win 8.1 is enough to make one pine for man pages (almost).

        Good rec. Except its job is to run Linux VMs (lotsa ram on that bad boy) _and_ run Window-only client software against them. Plus the customer base is generally on Windows.

        Honestly though, while I get the anger against both the telemetry and the nagware, I dislike Win 8 enough to be looking forward to 10. And whether in VM or not, the 8 UI is brain dead either way.

        Don't feel too bad. I am off that crapheap 90% of the time. And is from someone who loved XP.

        Now that win mobile is essentially a writeoff, Satnad needs to give someone the job of 7-izing Win 11 desktop with a skin and taking out its telemetry. That would do much to restore tempers IMHO. Next: unicorns seen frolicking with Saudi imams preaching women's lib.

  22. pewpie

    Steel yourselves..

    The final backdoor battle is near.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Steel yourselves..

      My anus is plugged!

  23. Mikel

    They have to

    It has to do with the accounting, and how they booked the OEM revenues for the W10 launch. They have no choice but to sell it at least for a little while. This dog will be licking at its own vomit soon enough

    1. Mikel

      That was quick

      They're already working around the cutoff.

      http://betanews.com/2016/05/08/windows-10-free-accessibility/

  24. Adam Jarvis

    Modern Interfaces have designed-in 'annoyance'.

    Comparing the History of Road Building, with the History of Computing, we've reached the equivalent point in history at which Speed Bumps were invented and implemented.

    There is nothing new from here on (everything will take longer from now on), its all about revenue streams / 'bumping heads', tripping up People so they pay fines/generate revenue.

    And its not just Microsoft, Google's Privacy Check-up is the most irritating interface ever designed, purposely designed that way so you don't turn off Google's data slurping. Its actually a total of 30 clicks to turn off all settings, which could be achieved in a tenth of that (and be persistent, not stored as a 'Cookie').

    Firefox's new tab feature exactly the same, (how many go straight to options to make the new tab a blank page)

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Win10 update borked my laptop

    It's OK, I reloaded Win7

  26. Huns n Hoses

    Cleanup?

    With a bit of luck it will remove the 3GB Win10 installation it pre-downloaded "for your convenience" when it departs.

    Turn out the light when you leave.

    1. Winkypop Silver badge

      Re: Cleanup?

      You would hope so.

      However, given their recent behaviour, I imagine they won't remove anything.

      I suspect they will continue to 'maintain' the W10 files so that an upgrade, paid or otherwise, can be initiated anytime.

  27. raving angry loony

    What else?

    quote: will be disabled and eventually removed

    Since this is Microsoft, what has me worried is "what else will they remove" when they automatically remove their spamware.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: sweeping generalisations about Linux

    Sure, there are several choices of desktop for Linux but that only matters if you care about the OS which most people don't unless you are an enthusiast.

    Most just want to sit down at a desktop, start an application and get working as quickly as possible and in my role as IT support, it's my job to make sure they can do just that.

    As I said, noone is questioning the reliability of Linux for applications that should be mostly 'set and forget' but the commercial reality is, from a desktop and laptop point of view, Microsoft and Apple are more dominant than Linux at this stage.

    1. Baldy50

      Re: sweeping generalisations about Linux

      I don't think your a coward!

      I believe if it were offered as an option when purchasing a new machine and some revenue for the Distro installed of course, it could be far more popular for the average user. But no ones selling Linux in the market, citing that it's only for geeks, how good can it be for free!

      As it stands commercially there is no reason for any of the electronics outlets to do this, It's about making money and not giving people choice.

      If W10 was a car it would only come in two colours and when pulling off the driveway in a hurry to do something important it would suddenly lose all power, make you wait half way off the driveway with the engine running and then need to be restarted to go anywhere after a lengthy wait.

      Apart from Mac users most consumers think that Windows is there only choice and availabilityand the familiarity with Windows, over the past 21 years since W1 they can't really be blamed for sticking with what they know.

      On older machines belonging to friends and family rather than bin the machine I get rid of XP (which I still love BTW) and install a Linux Distro, for general things like mooching around the web it can't be beaten for it's inherent stability, speed on older PC's and immunity to most of the malware out there!

      XFCE is my preferred desktop generally and once I type in my PW or use as guest it is usable within a second or two, no spinney thing with nothing loading. The people I've converted to using Linux are happy because it works all of the time, it's fast and didn't cost a penny.

      I was intrigued by the adoption of some Linux oldies and goldies to be introduced to W10 (rolling update, multiple desktops), I just think that It's time Redmond and the rest of the team made Windows work better and faster, be more resilient to malware, after all they are making a lot of money out of this.

      I often wonder how much additional revenue for the computer industry has accrued just from removing malware alone.

      Vista was beautiful to look at considering the look of XP at the time but didn't work properly, not even close. When your antivirus program viewed a Windows update as malicious and deleted it leaving the machine in a BSOD state, well kind of says it all!

      If they can make it work well and the users like it then they have my blessing, I just feel it's going to be another 'like it or lump it ' you'll put up with what we sell you' mentality because of the massive market share they hold.

      If Macs were the same price as Windows machines it might be a different market scenario, as Apple's OS is based like Linux on UNIX then far more people would be used to it as an alternative and it wouldn't seem so 'geekish'.

      In fact I believe that to keep your Windows system in good order with all the AV, antimalware,repair and optimisation programs, etc... You'd be more of a geek than me!

      Installed Zorin got a load of useful free stuff, no antivirus installed, two years on the same Distro no problems to date at all, if it works so well why isn't it more popular?

      If only HP for example or any of the big names would just bite the bullet and get together with any of the software engineers and produce a Linux only machine saving consumers money, affording them with reliability and making themselves a name in the retail section of the industry to deliver choice and quality, a Swiss watch approach to modern computing, the cheap ones work just as well as the expensive ones!

      Regards.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Watch as shortly after they release a patch to kill off pirated versions of earlier operating systems and getting them to pay (full price) to play again. Well now you have to pay, we even would have let you use 10 for free, you turned that down, now you cant have vista/7 and must have 10 only and we want you to pay for it now, full price please.

    Also the urgency of requiring to continue to a push for windows 10 is probably because they how now back peddled all the telemetry, ermm patches, ring 0 stuff they wanted into the older operating systems, thus negating the need for people to run 10 for them to see, cough cough, what they need to, telemetry wise speaking of course...

    In the last few years microsoft is helping more and more people turn to linux, its very nice of them...

    1. Alan Brown Silver badge

      "Watch as shortly after they release a patch to kill off pirated versions of earlier operating systems and getting them to pay (full price) to play again. Well now you have to pay, we even would have let you use 10 for free, you turned that down, "

      I encountered an office full of pirated W7 installations in Outer Bumfuckistan when there in January. One of them ended up being (accidentally - user clicked on yes) upgraded to W10 - the download took 6 days, even in the largest city in the country. It refused to validate because the W7 license was pirated.

      On the bright side it offered to sell a genuine license for $20

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Back in the real world

    I happen to be writing a specialist application and its Windows 10 only. Because its technically far easier that way. One factor is support for camera peripherals, another is squeezing out performance from a PC. Not the sort of things most Linux users or traditionalist enterprise sysadmins commenting here care about. I'm more than happy to leave the Win7 or Win8 diehards behind with their aging platforms. By the end of the year the 500 million plus Win10 userbase likely by then is sufficiently interesting to ignore the rest.

    Unfortunate if Microsoft pulling the plug on FOC upgrades means some people lose out but c'est la vie. Double unfortunate for users who would benefit from updating but are put off by the characters who comment here with glee how they have dissuaded friends, family and customers from upgrading.

    It will be interesting to see how many other developers take a similar route. In some cases like mine its a dead easy call for technical and support reasons.

    In my case theres the option to fork my code from Github and move it to Win7 or Linux or whatever if someone cares enough to waste a few months of their life but I'll be astounded if it happens.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Back in the real world

      "another is squeezing out performance from a PC. Not the sort of things most Linux users.... care about"

      In your dreams

      A/C cos you are.

      1. Palpy
        Facepalm

        Re: Back in the real world, Win 10 is BESTEST

        @ AC #2: I think what our Win10 dev means to point out is that virtually all of the most highly optimized computing hardware -- read, supercomputers -- run Windows 10. And of course there are consumer-grade Windows 10 systems which are designed specifically for creating high-performance computing clusters. I myself use a version of the OS with a low-latency kernel for audio recording. Such optimized software is easily available in Windows 10.

        Wait, I may have that backwards. [find-replace "Windows 10", "Linux"]

    2. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Back in the real world

      Double unfortunate for users who would benefit from updating but are put off by the characters who comment here with glee how they have dissuaded friends, family and customers from upgrading.

      For the Git, going along with MS coercion meant "missing out". Not only did I miss using many GB of Internet bandwidth I had paid for, "upgrading" the entertainment PC meant no TV. MS Media Centre used the TV capture card to receive DTV, something the analog TV was incapable of thought it was an acceptable TV monitor. The software that came with both DTV capture devices was incompatible with W10.

      I have done very little to persuade friends and family to convert to Linux. What I have told them is that I do not support OSs that I do not use; i.e. W8.x, or W10. The only possible reason for me coming up to speed with either would be so that I could provide support. But I'm retired FFS.

      Friends and family that have adopted Linux Mint are doing far more to persuade others to do the same than I am. The last thing I want is more people consuming my time with support issues. I make no money from this and the more support I provide, the less time I have for gardening, listening to music, creating new gourmet recipes... Happily, these family and friends need far less support than they did when running WXP, or W7. Everyone's a winner babe... ;-)

      The "real world" is vastly different than most IT professionals imagine. I discovered this when training end users. The BOFH is only partially joking when he relates that the purpose of a ladmin is to make all lusers lives as miserable as possible.

      As it happens, I cannot abandon W7 completely, there being only OSX versions of InDesign and my other graphics software as alternatives. Neither of my Macs are up to suff compared to my main machine. Adopting Mint (or any other OS) does not equate to abandoning what's needed under different circumstances. Indeed, the totality of my "persuasion" is to have a potential Mint user try running the Live DVD and see what they think.

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Back in the real world

        "The software that came with both DTV capture devices was incompatible with W10"

        I'll buy the devices. They tend to run happily on every flavour of linux. :p

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: Back in the real world

          I'll buy the devices. They tend to run happily on every flavour of linux. :p

          The Hauppauge was chosen for compatibility with Linux. The older one has "issues". I suspect that these are age-related; it was designed before W7 was released. I doubt its value would justify the cost of postage.

          In any event, in March the old analog TV shuffled off its mortal coil. Possibly in sympathy with Dick Smith Electronics demise since that's where it was purchased ever so long ago. The new (actually a refurb) TV has a digital tuner built in (natch). The entertainment computer runs a very recent Mint and can be used to record TV broadcasts on one of those rare occasions we feel the need. It also plays my digital music collection using Audacious.

    3. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: Back in the real world

      Squeezing out performance....

      Well that can depend massively on what language you use.

      Some languages are far better suited to certain tasks than others.

      Other performance inprovements can be obtained by, if appropriate, getting the GPU to do some grunt work.

      Much of my work is windows coding, mainly using MS languages, but flexibility reigns, e.g. as soon as anything crops up that involves processing large text documents then it's perl to the rescue as it can be orders of magnitude faster than C# for complex text analysis tasks.

      All my old, low end, home kit (typically old cast off machines) gets made Linux dual boot, purely for performance, use Linux so machine actually performs well on everyday tasks such as browsing, mail, word processing, use the sluggish windows boot when need something windows only e.g. Visual Studio.

      Why not give us the link to your github code, then people could comment more accurately if W10 was significant for performance rather than just ease of development

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Back in the real world

      "One factor is support for camera peripherals... Not the sort of things most Linux users ... commenting here care about."

      True because it's not a thing that needs much care expending on it. The OS sees that the camera's there & offers itself to any software that looks for image source. If I fire up Sane, for instance, it's available alongside the scanner.

  31. hypernovasoftware

    Apple offers all of their OS updates for free. They would never nag or coerce you into upgrading. If you hide a software update, it stays hidden.

    MS sucks once again.

    1. Zot

      That's weird because my iMac nags every time I turn the thing on. My Windows 7 machine has never nagged, for some reason.

      Also Apple's OS updates haven't always been free.

  32. Zot

    I thought the War of the Worlds aliens all died.

    Killed by a common virus.

  33. alpine

    "Without those fixes, you'll be better off unplugging your machine for good."

    Not really. By far the vast majority of 'security' fixes relate to things that have never been seen in the wild but result from investigations by supposed security firms who are of course on to a nice little earner.

  34. sikejsudjek

    I've only used the nagware update to windows 10 on two machines. One took a day and a half or continual reboots to get it to update. The other refused to do anything so I left it on windows 7.

    I hate windows 10 and I don't trust its spyware. I only use it on one machine where there is no alternative. Linux mint is a far better OS in every way. I hate the stupid looking start menu on windows 10, the flat look which was designed by a bunch of five year olds, the removal of windows media centre, the automatic updates, the lack of aero, the splitting of control panel into settings, the stupid edge browser that you can't remove, the creepy cortana which I don't use and can't remove....

    Or put another way its crap, and no MS didn't listen to its users, they ignored them as usual.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 10₂

    The version number and visual style you love from yester-year, now expressed in binary.

    1. badger31

      Re: Windows 10₂

      I made this exact comment in the preview feedback. I was hoping not to be alone in this.

      Incidentally, the fscking GWT nagware has recently reappeared on my Win7 machine, despite having done all the removals/disables/regedit shit. Take the fucking hint, Microsoft. I don't want your shit - not even for free.

      1. pmartin66

        Re: Windows 10₂

        Why you running Win7 then? get off MS completely. Wait, you are just here to whinge, right?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Windows 10₂

          I got off MS back in the late 90s. However, I still find myself being a system administrator of a network with mostly Windows 7 clients, so it's still a menace I have to face despite my best intentions.

  36. Zap

    Nonsense

    "Without those fixes, you'll be better off unplugging your machine for good."

    That is Nonsense

    All you need to do is make sure you run a protected environment

    This kind of scaremongering is just what Microsoft wants

    Even without all the advertising, affiliate products and bloatware issues as an operating system Win10 has no compelling reason to upgrade.

    It is slower, slower to boot and to operate. You could not get me to upgrade even if they were giving it away, oh shit they are giving it away!!

    I do not know when the next version is out but I am quite happy to stay with Win7, I installed a dual boot so I can be technically competent in Win10 but if Microsoft does not want to move people to Linux they better speed up their product and give an option to remove all this crapware.

    They say the enterprise version does not have this but would you honestly believe there is not some kind of service collecting data that they use for their advertisers.

    "Crucially, Microsoft will continue to push out security fixes for Windows Vista until April 11, 2017; Windows 7 until January 14, 2020; and January 10, 2023 for Windows 8 – unless you cut a special deal with Redmond for longer support. Without those fixes, you'll be better off unplugging your machine for good."

  37. Blacklight
    Mushroom

    Replace one with another...

    It may well stop nagging you, but I've just fired up my W10 box, to have a notification that my version of Office (2007, paid for, working nicely still) is not the latest one, and would I like to upgrade? (50% off! Buy now! Every year!)

    Erm, no thanks!

  38. Hans 1 Silver badge
    Mushroom

    .... kb3035583 appeared again, in the "important" updates and ticked, this time, although I am 100% sure I have hid this thing at least 6 times in the past ... what is this shit ? Am I the only one, there is a "very" remote chance the kids "unhid" it, but I doubt that, even they know it is shit ... well, except one, read on:

    The other Windows 7 computer over here got a treat to Windows 10, THREE days later, the computer does not even POST anymore, kid is sure it was working perfectly yesterday ... Windows 10 was last thing he installed and he rebooted several times since install ... and games appeared to be working well ... the only thing he remembers were updates that were installed, yesterday ... can they corrupt the BIOS like that ??? I know they can f'up the UEFI ... MSI z97 GAMING 5 is mobo, for those in the know.

    Does not appear to be CPU or Memory, from the debug LED's ... will need to record the LED with my phone and send to MSI .... could not find what 4F means ... Maybe Windows 10 detected, HARAKIRI.

    1. Ropewash
      Unhappy

      re : Hans 1

      "Am I the only one"

      No. No you are not.

      2 out of 6 win7 machines at work decided to run that update and also download win10 all by their lonesome overnight last week. Another 2 still have the nagware and the remaining 2 have no sign of it at all despite all being on the same update settings (as far as I know, I divorced myself from touching the work machines quite a while ago. I cut metal for a living, I'm not a helpdesk.)

      My gaming rig and Surface-pro had the recurring un-hiding of the updates until I got mildly upset, purged the systems of all things win10'ish and turned off updates. Not an elegant solution, but they aren't on the internet much and I'll take my chances with possible malware over turning on updates and getting definite malware.

      I've not encountered the UEFI thing yet but...

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/06/microsoft_update_asus_windows_7/

      ...I'm sure it's just a click away.

      Okay, so maybe my Manjaro updates don't always go exactly smoothly, but they sure as hell don't do anything nearly as nasty to me and a fix is one rollback away as long as I can get to the CLI.

  39. TRT Silver badge

    Windows 10

    OMG. I just installed Win 10 on a laptop that arrived for a professor here with Win 8.1 preinstalled.

    I've just thrown up in my mouth a little. It's vile. Controls above (or is it below?) the explanatory text pushing everything down so that you have to scroll. Unable to set control panels to display by small icon. A "start menu" filled with crap - I'm supposed to be giving this to a f***ing professor of neuroscience and the start menu is filled with f***ing Minecraft and XBOX shit?!

    Type sizes are all over the place so that you can't find a comfortable medium. The big stuff is just about right at 100% zoom, but the small stuff is illegible. Or set it to 150% and the small stuff is just right, but the big stuff takes a quarter of the screen.

    Jesus wept. Please, take me away from this!

    1. Captain Badmouth
      Pint

      Re: Windows 10

      "I'm supposed to be giving this to a f***ing professor of neuroscience"

      Get him to analyse the likely thought processes of the tw*t who designed it then.

      Meanwhile, have a pint and a comiseratory upvote.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: Windows 10

        He just looked at it and said "zis is horrible" (he's German). If I showed it to a professor of economics, they'd say "I think they are trying to make money with an app store and content store".

  40. Baldy50

    W10 not all bad

    I've removed it five times now just from friends and families machines due to an accidental upgrade on 3 occasions and two willing to try it out, all oldish laptops, four to six years old and it run very sluggishly, Cortana didn't always work as well.

    Recently installed it on a dell 380 dual core machine for a family member and found it to run faster than 7, no major glitches at all really and she is very happy with it.

    I couldn't seem to get the multiple desktops to work though, it only minimised the window I was on and totally unlike the Linux distro's I'm used to using, any thoughts on this?

    I find the most annoying thing about Windows are the lengthy updates, it will be interesting to see if W10 and it's rolling update work as well as other OS's with this feature.

    I have been as much as possible staying completely away from W10 as W7 runs fine in a VM under Linux on my machine and I may give it a go just to learn what has changed just in case I need to help someone down the line, looked a complete idiot when I first tried to use W8 in front of a friend!

    Regards.

    1. Adam Jarvis

      Re: W10 not all bad

      ->I find the most annoying thing about Windows are the lengthy updates

      Especially when you can install Linux Mint 17.3 (to fully updated, updates applied during install) from a USB/ISO Installer in the time it takes MIcrosoft to find and update the definitions for Windows Defender, FFS.

      Windows 10 really needs to stop trying to impress, get back in the background, become 'boring' again where it belongs, its an OS, to enable you to do things, not an entity in itself. Boring is good, you can still appreciate something/someone who quietly gets on with their job.

      Windows Update is like someone flailing arms their arms, everytime you ask them to do something.

      There is a lot Microsoft could learn from the latest Linux Mint approach to Interface design, house-keeping.

      1. Baldy50

        Re: W10 not all bad

        Yes apart from AV Linux everyone of the distro's I have tried including and especially Mint have been so easy and quick to install, with I might add no need for the ATI driver disc as I do in Windows to get the graphics card to work properly.

        I suppose we all have to do a little learning with regards to whatever OS we use, I have on occasion felt like an M$ employee however due to the amount of time spent keeping everything running A OK!

        Like you say the OS should stay out of the way as much as possible and just let you get on with whatever.

        As an informed amateur I am generally tasked to fix a family or friends machine and I’m frequently frustrated by device driver errors on co processors and adapter drivers essential to the machine working properly.

        I have never had these sorts of problems with Linux, it all gets detected and works first time around, no searching for missing drivers (code28)!

        Ian.

  41. TRT Silver badge

    And this week...

    I've spent 10 hours already reverting PCs back to Windows 7 Pro. That's six machines I didn't think were going to update automatically that did. Someone needs to take this company to court. Hours of lost time thanks to their "policy".

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