The largest note is always 'too big', the 2nd largest is OK.
€500 notes? Far too big! No legitimate purpose to them! €200 notes? Absolutely fine.
$100 notes? Too big! $50 notes are fine.
£50 notes? Too big! £20 notes are fine.
The European Central Bank (ECB) will likely agree today to stop production of the meaty €500 note, which has long been considered a handy tool for criminals wishing to do illicit transactions with cash wedges of manageable dimensions. According to the Wall Street Journal, the ECB's Governing Council will decide not to produce …
I've almost never used anything above the €50 note. The only time I saw a €500 note is when I rented an apartment in Moldova years ago, and the renter told me she was accepting cash only (in a western currency...) - it was the simplest way to avoid a bulky wallet. People there didn't like the local currencies and bank accounts because inflation eroded its value too quickly. Later even there it became easier to pay with a credit card - even without having its data stolen...
€50 notes are a curse, the local ATMs are filled with them. Ask for any amount above €50 and you get as many 50s as possible, with 10s and 20s to make up the total.
Who pays for anything around €50 in cash? My cash transactions are most likely for a coffee, or a pastry, or a newspaper. If I'm spending above €20 or €30 I'll use plastic. Many shops quite understandably won't take a €50 note for a €1.50 coffee.
I'm slowly learning which ATMs only have 10s and 20s (clue, the ones in the poor/student parts of town) and I use them by preference. I can see no real purpose in anything above €100, let alone €500.
Meh, $100 notes are pretty much universally acceptable now. Even convenience stores take them int he middle of the night now, for the most part. When you consider that filling up a pickup with diesel (or gasoline/petrol) costs around $100, it makes perfect sense that they'd take $100 notes.
You just described the U.S. No joke.
You can barely spend $100 bill* these days and $50 bill will get you odd looks. Many small shops absolutely will NOT accept a $100 bill. (*bill=note)
It is not the thin edge of scraping paper money. We are way past that point. We are almost at the end game of making paper money if not illegal, then useless by default.
I old enough to remember the $1000 and $500 bill. Flash one of those these days and you will be talking to the cops on the spot, yet they are still perfectly legal tender.
"$1000 and $500 bill. Flash one of those these days". Reading the news, I think the cops will take the money, seizure it, as it's called. One group of people who very much prefer cash are those who sell and buy stamps, I think for obvious reasons.
That's certainly n option.
It's not like anyone will abolish money and force all transaction via oligopoly of a few banks... it's just that the only money left legitimate are small coin practical only for kids to buy cola and train mugging skillz.
I once tried to buy a flat off a drug dealer.
To be fair to me, I didn't know at the time. I thought it was a re-posession. Only found out the truth when we got the contract, and it was actually being sold by the courts service as part of his punishment. He hadn't apparently been using it for deals, it was part of his money laundering. He'd got 3 places in the town where I live, and had built a development of 12 villas in Spain. Was doing 10 years for being part of a big skunk ring (you can imagine I got googling once I saw the contract).
The funny bit is they were having so much trouble laundering all the cash they were taking in, that they had a lock-up garage locally where the police found £120,000 in a metal safe under a bit of the roof that leaked. It had turned to papier mache - because they couldn't get it out the door fast enough.
Much to my Mum's relief, I got gazumped, and decided not to up my offer when invited to join the bidding war.
If you're going to be walking round with more than 100,000 euros in Spain the bank has to give you a special form when you withdraw the money, so if Lewis has still got the form on his bedroom wall...
Although the form is rather academic now because as of a few years back as if you pay a company or someone who's self-employed the cash limit is 2,500.
According to statistics, which are never wrong, 500 euro notes now make up 75% of the money in circulation in Spain, twice the eurozone average.
My Dad bought a house for cash, in the 1980s. He'd decided to save money, by doing his own conveyancing. With a bit of help from a lawyer mate, and a book he'd bought.
And his opposite number at the vendor's solicitors decided that the honour (and the closed shop) of the legal profession must be protected at all costs. So messed him about, and it ended up for various reasons with Dad driving to the building society, taking £105,000 out in a suitcase, and driving to the solicitors. Being England, all in £50 notes.
I'm surprised the bank let him. After all, if he'd lost it on the way, it would be an unsecured loan, seeing as the old house was sold (this was the cash) and the new one not bought yet.
I actually had that happen in Hampshire (thin kit was actually a £10) they just printed off a voucher ticket for the remaining value which could be used on another bus. Needing to get home I didn't have much choice in the matter. Though that is better than Coventry buses which don't give change - you had to put your coins down a slip and the bus driver didn't have access - think a note in that would have caused issues.
The ONLY reason they want to bin the 500 Euro notes ( the 200's are next) is they live in a terrible fear that with the exceedingly low interest on bank and savings accounts, people will start taking their money out of the bank and putting it under their mattresses again (sadly, with modern foam mattresses it is impossible to hide your money inside them without creating uncomfortable lumps).
When these notes have disappeared, the road is clear for the banks to start implementing negative interests, making it too unpractical to store even smaller savings.
It is for the same reason they are systematically lowering allowable cash purchase amounts, so you have no other choice but to use banks.
Being a conspiracy theorist does not mean you are wrong.
You can't eat gold. Nor drink it.
If we ever did enter a post apocalyptic nightmare, you'd be better off hoarding useful skills like how to make and fix things, along with knowledge of farming, husbandry and environmental management.
You know, all those skills the hipster boys dismiss over their macho-lattes .....
The older I get, the more I look forward the collapse of civilisation. I think Douglas Adams had it spot on, and the vast majority of humankind would be dying of hunger wondering how to post the experience on Facebook.
You can't eat gold. Nor drink it.
Gold has retained its value throughout history as a recognised form of currency. Fiat money? Not so much.
Anyway, this isn't about protecting against a total societal collapse situation. Just ask the Cypriots who had their savings raided or the Greeks forced to stand in giant queues to get hold of their allotted €50 per day during the recent imposition of capital controls. A repeat of this type of scenario most certainly is not beyond the realms of possibility, especially given the continued fragile state of the economy.
Let's not forget that banks globally only keep around 6 cents in reserve for every $100 deposited, at last count. With figures like that it really doesn't seem so crazy to me to hold at least 10% of your wealth in precious metals.
Sorry to disappoint you but the about the € 500 note is as old as the Euro itself, as is the debate about 1 and 2 cent coins.
The Germans used to have a DM 500 note so the € 500 note was introduced to replace this. However, the Euro turned out to be far more tradable than the DM and the € 500 soon replaced the $ 100 in dodgy deals around the world as the Euro became one of the reserve currencies.
I have heard it on the radio said that some houses and cars are indeed paid for this way but no one I know says they've ever done it. Interestingly, Italy has recently lifted a ceiling on cash transactions that was previously introduced to cut down on tax avoidance, which it seemed to be doing quite well.
The € 500 has no real use in everyday life. The € 200 note won't be withdrawn. Cash is cash so when you don't trust the fiat currency you switch to something else like gold. Though that's not looking too safe as an alternative "store of value" at the moment either.
Getting the Germans entirely off cash is going to be damned hard struggle that I don't see starting soon. The financial repression is working anyway – all the governments are benefitting from the low yields but it looks like we've reached the end of the line for a while at least: the ECB's board probably doesn't have a majority for more money printing.
The Germans also had a DM 1000 note, which I've both seen and used (sold a car for cash once).
That's what the € 500 note replaced.
The move to get rid of the notes (and yes, we in Germany can smell this sort of thing coming a thousand KM away - have a look at the history between WWI and WWII, for instance) is merely a ploy to get us to a cashless society quickly and without much fuss, hence all the NFC terminals popping up everywhere.
Sarrazin is right, as are the AfD. We won't have the Barber of Seville, we've got Draghi instead. And he has a very dangerous blade indeed...
"I have a 100.000 DM banknote (no kidding, it's a real one...), but German banks keep on refusing to change it in euro "
Take it to the central bank, the deadline for conversion at normal banks has passed, but you can still convert old DMs to Euros at full value.
Deutsche Bundesbank also still do it:
Sarrazin is right, as are the AfD.
Translation for those not in Jormany: Thilo Sarrazin is a bit like Farage but without the jokes, who shot to prominence with a polemic about Muslims in Germany. Weirdly though he's from the the Social Democrats.
The AfD is the German version of UKIP complete with its own infighting between the turn-the-clock-back brigade and the outright racists. In the European Parliament this means that some of them want to sit with Dave's lot and some of them want to sit with the French National Front.
We won't have the Barber of Seville, we've got Draghi instead. And he has a very dangerous blade indeed...
Without Draghi, the Euro would have collapsed already. Despite what all the hawkish German politicians have told you about the risk of inflation, does Germany currently have runnaway inflation? No. You do not. You don't even have high inflation. The ECB is currently missing its inflation target by being 1.9 percentage points under target! And the South of the Eurozone has deflation - one of the reasons that the crisis there cannot be solved and why Germany will not get paid back. This is basic economics. While their economies are barely growing, and prices are falling, debt will rise faster than they can pay it - they will only be able to reduce national debt when nominal growth is high enough.
Meanwhile your trade surplus with these countries is growing. Which is A) a breach of the Eurozone stability pact, and; B) insane, as you are lending them money to buy your goods and make your economy look bigger. But like the false profits of the banks from the boom, this money will not be paid back, cannot be paid back, and so you are effectively working to give away your exports. The solution to this problem is for Germany to buy some of the exports from these countries, to give them the means to pay back loans to German banks (which are your pension savings remember) - this reducing your trade surplus - and to try to create more inflation in the Eurozone. You lose a bit of the value of your savings, but then have a chance of being paid back. Also inflation means higher interest rates, so you don't totally lose out.
Oh and the €500 note was heavily criticised at the foundation of the Euro. By the British government for one, as its use for organised crime was obvious. Sadly, like the warnings about the inevitable problems the Euro would cause, they were ignored. And proved right in both cases. The Euro can be made to work, but it won't be easy.
You ain't Spartacus, you ain't a banker either.
Sorry, but the low interest rates are killing Europe. Look at all the good it's doing for Japan...
Maybe you have a few € 500s laying around you can fluff. Most of us don't.
Blame everything on the Germans, right?
@"Cash is cash so when you don't trust the fiat currency you switch to something else like gold."
That's just the point, they DO trust the euro cash, they don't trust the banks electronic version of the euro. As soon as a question hangs over a bank, they demand the paper money knowing it is a solid form of exchange. I don't think making cash less attractive is the way to make electronic stores-of-cash more trusted. It'll just hit adhoc trades and lessen Euros use in third country markets.
Want to donate to Wikileaks? At one point cash was the only way to do it, after the banks, credit cards, paypal etc. were leaned on. I don't think Germans would be happy to have non-Germans control who they can send money to based on non-German political agendas. It would devalue the euro to permit that. Holding cash is as much about control.
@"I have heard it on the radio said that some houses and cars are indeed paid for this way"
I've used it for a car sale once. Bank drafts are not trusted, they could drive off and the draft is a fake. I don't think they're used for houses. A crook can't run off with a house!
I think drug dealers don't use 500s, they use cash in common circulation to avoid drawing attention to themselves. 500's must have come from a bank. Likewise terrorists. The "Bin Ladens" name was a joke that somebody took too seriously.
The Germans also used to have DM 1000 notes*. As the exchange rate was 1 EUR = 1.96 DEM, the € 500 note did fit in quite nicely.
* Brownish thing. Portrait of a guy on the front side, based on a painting by Lucas Cranch sr showing either Johannes Scheyring (bigwig in Magdeburg at the time) or mathematician and astronomer Johannes Schöner. Picture of Limburg cathedral on the back side.
The issue with €500 notes is they allow to move large sums of money in a little space. At your home you can store far larger volumes, if you wish, but illegal activities don't like to move big boxes fulls of money. And looking at what is happening in EU, I wouldn't store large sums in Euro... gold or diamonds look a better alternatives. If the Euro collapse, no need to change them...
BTW, banks have really no interest in implementing negative interests. Zero interest are OK for them, you still lend them money, maybe pay for the account management, why should they make you move money away?
And, after all, even the money was invented to eliminate purchases using sheeps or cows, and let those who cold print or mint money control how much money is available and transactions... those afraid of losing cash should also advocate for being able to pay in cows too.
Do you believe criminals enter the average shop - one they don't trust fully - and produce a bunch of €500 euro notes? Of course you need to launder the money you exchange a little, before using it for "normal" uses. You'll find other criminals, even in banks, ready to help you, maybe for a small fee...
But to move them around, and have a mean of trusted, untraceable payment they work very well.
Make them from U235 and wait for someone to accumulate a critical mass.
A €500 note has dimensions 160 x 82 x 0.11 millimetres which I think has a volume of 1.4432e-6 m³.
The density of U235 is c.19,100 kg/m³.
Critical Mass is a minimum of about 52 kg (depending on purity and shape).
So therefore all they'd need is 52/19100 = 0.0027 m³ which would be equivalent to approximately 1,884 €500 notes = €942,000.
I'm based in Ireland in the Eurozone and I have never seen a €500. A bank once gave me a €200 and I had serious difficulty using it as nobody would accept it. Even another bank was iffy about it.
You rarely see €100s never mind €200 or €500 the highest denomination in normal circulation is the €50.
The 1 and 2 cent coins are gone here now too. They're accepted, but your change is rounded to the nearest round number multiple of 5 cent (in your favour according to the guidelines and in reality too).
That's interesting. When I lived in Belgium, up to 2002, I used to get €100 notes all the time, if I wasn't careful. As I recall you could get smaller denomination ones in your own bank, as there are two kinds of cash machines in Belgium. The ones outside the bank offer bigger notes, the ones inside are only for customers, and at least KBC had seats, and you could get more smaller notes.
I'd have been glad to see the back of the 1 and 2 eurocent coins. They were almost identical anyway, and I had to resort to using a little plastic coin holder thing. The 20 and 50 cent are also quite similar in size and colour too - but it's easier as they're bigger. UK coinage is much nicer, because you've got both colour and shape changes, which make life a lot simpler.
I think it was more of a shock to the system in places like Italy and Belgium, where they didn't use coins very much beforehand. And suddenly had loads.
Some 14 years ago, I spent a month in Switzerland as a guest researcher. On the first day, my host took me to the finance office, and they paid my month's salary in cash. Nice 1000Fr notes... Some years later, I reluctantly decided it was time to change the ones I hadn't spent. I took them to the post office, who took them into a back room, came out again saying "gosh, they do have interesting security features", and then insisted on giving me my sterling in RBS £100 notes instead of into my bank account. I walked swiftly to my bank.
I hope you're not just hoarding bacon. Otherwise, as soon as you cook your first post-apocalyptic bacon butty, those who prepared by arming themselves will be attracted by the smell, and will relieve you of your bacon.
Unless of course you are planning to use that to your advantage, and lure them towards you. Possibly for the twin purposes of getting more guns and ammo for trading purposes, and turning them into selling bacon. Make the streaky out of them perhaps?
Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019