back to article Microsoft adds 'non-security updates' to security patches

Microsoft has added “non-security updates” to an Update Tuesday patch. MS16-023, billed as a “Security update for Internet Explorer” and issued on March 8, includes six “General distribution release (GDR) fixes”. Five are innocuous as they address glitches like “Empty textarea loses its closing tag in Internet Explorer 11 …

  1. Timmy B Silver badge

    I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

    This update is clearly designed to take over your PC and force a downgrade to Windows 10 whilst stealing all your personal information, sending all your money to a Nigerian generals bank account, and removing all the left socks from your drier.

    Oh, it'll also lock your Windows installation into read-only mode until you commit to paying M$ $17.99 (plus taxes) a month for the next 25 years.

    1. Aniya
      Mushroom

      Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

      Firstly; Fuck you Microsoft.

      Now that that's out of the way; is there any one person surprised by this stunt? As disgusting of an act as it is, given Microsoft's recent history it was only a matter of time before they implemented adware (maybe even viral?) payloads bundled alongside "security" updates.

      Experienced users (incidentally enough many of whom possess purchasing powers over corporate software licenses) were becoming more and more aware of which KB numbers to avoid on Windows Update (namely 2952664 & 3035583) and thus Microsoft needed a new strategy.

      You know what though? Whatever. Yep. Whatever. I don't even get angry anymore. I just read the news, and laugh. Why? Because I know that Windows is on its final days on my PC. Microsoft has already projected to me their true colours quite a number of updates ago.

      And to all the Microsoft apologists and supporters of Windows 10: look, I respect some of the technical achievements of Windows 10. I respect that it runs much better on low-end hardware than Windows 7 could ever hope to achieve. Windows 10 is certainly not without merit.

      What I do NOT respect nor tolerate however is Windows 10's lack of respect for MY privacy and MY preferences. I, for one, like to only update drivers when absolutely necessary. Not every single time a silly optimization update is released for a game I do not play or feature I do not require (which then crashes my PC when I launch a web browser). Likewise, when I say that I prefer so-and-so application to open my text or even PDF files, I expect the operating system to honour my preference and to not decide that it knows better every second Tuesday of the month.

      Thus, until the day there is a big AND universal "telemetry off" button (which is guaranteed to be honoured 100% of the time and never to be reset in the future for whatever reason) and until the day I can control what drivers I want on my PC, Windows 10 can install itself where the sun doesn't shine.

      Oh, and did I mention? Fuck you Microsoft.

      1. Aniya
        Mushroom

        Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

        Oh, and one more thing. If this is how Microsoft is treating its existing customers, then everyone's going to be in for one hell of a ride with Windows 10 in the future. I would just love to see what Microsoft has planned for its Windows 10 audience in the years ahead.

        I, of course, will be watching from the comfort of my RHEL install at home along with a bowl of delicious ramen to spice up the ambience.

        1. Jagged

          Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

          I think the issue here is that MS doesn't see them as "existing customers"

          It sees them as "past customers" and wants to change them into "existing customers" in the form of regular monthly payments.

          1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

            I think the real point is that, with Vista and 8, Microsoft learned the hard way that users who have the choice risk exercising that choice. And that risk cost Microsoft money.

            Knowing that Microsoft, despite all its money, still doesn't actually own the government, and knowing that goon squads are generally frowned on, Microsoft could not actually, physically force everyone to go to Windows 1 0. So how could Microsoft eliminate the risk ?

            It's like micropayments in the pseudo "free"-to-play games. When everything is based on micropayments, you end up paying. Well Microsoft took that idea and turned it into micro-updates. Every little update is now an opportunity to shovel another way of getting the user to install Windows 1 0. And with the price point at $0, most users should logically make the jump. Except they're not, not in massive numbers anyway.

            What really surprises me is that Microsoft is still so candid about it in its KB articles. I suppose that, at one point, there will be a security patch where Microsoft just says "Fuck it, Windows 1 0 is the security patch".

            I'm already watching this from the side lines. Windows Update is disabled on my machine, so I can learn about the surprises like this beforehand instead of blindly walking into it and having to clean up after the fact.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

            "It sees them as "past customers" and wants to change them into "existing customers" in the form of regular monthly payments."

            It sees them as "past customers" and wants to change them into "product" in the form of regular monthly payments. and leveraging revenue streams from telemetry data.

            TFTFY

        2. s5PGmU
          Linux

          Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

          But Microsoft says "Since launching Windows 10, our number-one customer support request has been “how do I get my upgrade"! What a pile of BS. My only question since Win10 launched has been "Which updates to I need to hide/uninstall on the Windows machines that I have to use?"!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

        Thus, until the day there is a big AND universal "telemetry off" button (which is guaranteed to be honoured 100% of the time and never to be reset in the future for whatever reason)

        Sorry too late Lost trust so even this is not Good enough for me.

        1) menu on install so Telemetry is not installed from the start.

        2) choice of updates when user wants with Full transparent and HONEST details of the packages. security updates ONLY include security updates, patches only include patches, "NEW" features and "UPGRADES" specifically highlighted in their own section.

        3) binding Law (probably EU only im afraid) That says if they sneak a telemetry or UPGRADE, NEW features install / update in against user preferences then they get fined 10% of global profits for every month that there is any machines with that package installed AND senior Executives go to Jail for mandatory 5 Years HARD Time not some country club open prison.

      3. Captain Badmouth
        Pint

        Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

        @Aniya

        Yew fergot "Feck off Microshhafft".

        Father Jack.

      4. beep54
        WTF?

        Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

        It is fucking worse than I imagined. In the past patch tuesday all the updates, with the exception of defender, had to do with telemetry and 10. I hid them all. As I have updates set to install when I tell them to, I kinda expected that to happen. HELL NO. Just now windows installed 16 damned updates including, of course, the lovely and talented Get Windows 10 with absolutely no input from me. What is utterly mindless about this is that I cannot install 10 even if I wanted to. There's a video driver cock-up that will cause it to fail. I am sick of this shit. Microsoft is now apparently of a mind that IT, NOT YOU, is in control of your machine.

      5. mswin10

        Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

        You don't get angry but you start and finish with angry expletives so another one of many on here who is clueless

      6. ddl.team

        Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

        Fuck you Microsoft for upgrading my Windows Old to Windows 10 for free. Fuck you Google for giving me free Android updates om my Nexus Phone. Fuck you Apple for giving me free iOS and OS X updated on my Apple devices. There!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

          Fuck you Microsoft for upgrading my Windows Old to Windows 10 for free. Fuck you Google for giving me free Android updates om my Nexus Phone. Fuck you Apple for giving me free iOS and OS X updated on my Apple devices. There!

          Fuck you for joining just to spout this sort of BS.

          - Windows Old means something that works. Windows 10 is a whole new fight to keep secure and prevent data theft by Microsoft.

          - Google's services are NEVER free - you pay with data about your life, and you pay by allowing Google to spy on others by reading the email they send you.

          - Apple's platforms are paid for by their hardware and the fact that you get locked in to their services, but at least they put some effort in to make it relatively safe. It's just a swine to hook it up to a Linux server via SMB and NFS, not quite sure why but I don't need it right now.

          "Free" is make believe, or did you really think these companies make a profit out of thin air?

          1. DougS Silver badge

            Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

            The difference between getting Android updates on Nexus or iOS updates on iPhone, and getting Windows 10 updates on your Windows 7 PC is that only Microsoft is trying to trick you to taking the upgrade and constantly pushing it in your face.

            I don't know exactly how it works on Android, but on iOS when a new update becomes available the phone will download it in the background and then put up a notification telling you it is available and giving you the option of updating. If you reject it, it never asks again (until an even newer version comes along and is downloaded and ready) Unless that little red '1' in the Settings icon REALLY bothers you, Apple never hassles you to upgrade, doesn't keep asking, and doesn't insert ads into Safari hoping you'll accidentally click one and begin the upgrade process. Microsoft is doing all those things, and is even actively sabotaging software people have designed to try to shut off the constant nagging about Windows 10.

            If they had an update that presented you with the Windows 10 upgrade option and it gave you three options "Upgrade Now", "Ask me later", "Don't ask me again", and it honored the latter choice, and asked "are you sure" for the first choice no one would have any problem with what Microsoft is doing. Yeah Windows 10 is a data collection machine, but on the other hand it is free so I'd say fair play to them if that's how they decided to they wanted to collect their revenue in the future. I just want to be left alone to run Windows 7 without hassle if that's my choice.

            It must gall Microsoft that they've made Windows 10 available to the 85% or so of the world's Windows userbase that is running 7, 8, or 8.1 and yet Windows 10 is only installed on about 12% of the world's PCs despite all the nagging, while iOS 9 is available to about 95% of iPhones and it hit 12% in 24 hours and was installed on 60% of all iPhones in a month!

            1. Pompous Git Silver badge

              Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

              The difference between getting Android updates on Nexus or iOS updates on iPhone, and getting Windows 10 updates on your Windows 7 PC is that only Microsoft is trying to trick you to taking the upgrade and constantly pushing it in your face.

              It's worse than that, DougS. Imagine your business is sign-cutting and there's no w10 driver for your sign-cutter. W10 could be the latest and greatest since sliced bread, but it's as useless as tits on a bull if it won't let you conduct your business. And for those ranting about the EULA, there's nowhere it states that MS have the right to put you out of business, or stop your TV from working for that matter.

              Unscrupulous Microserfs are likely rubbing their hands with glee at this situation. Revert offending w10 install to w7 and wait for the inevitable. W7 becomes stuck at 95-98% cpu usage after new patch. Seen this three times now and I'm retired.

              No Linux driver for the sign-cutter (nothing new there) so what's a scrupulous support dude to do?

              Revert to WinXP for the sign-cutter and purchase a refurb machine from Dell to run Cinnamon Mint and access Internet etc. Cheaper than a new sign-cutter!

    2. Wade Burchette

      Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

      I have had two people call me up and ask me why Windows 10 was installed on their computer. I never told them anything about Windows 10, the stink on it came from others. Windows 10 installed without their permission and since they ran a business, it cost them valuable time reverting back. Two other people told me she had a message saying that Windows 10 was going to upgrade in 30 minutes. In all 4 cases, GWX Control Panel to the rescue!

      I ask people one simple question: "Why would a multi-billion dollar want, in fact demand, you take something expensive from them for free?" The people in my generation and younger still say "so what" when I ask that question, as if they have given up. They take to the streets to protest the FBI wanting to unlock an iPhone but happily turn around and give all that information to Facebook, as if one is better than the other. When I ask that question, the older generation gets it immediately. I have to tell them what Microsoft is doing, but that one question immediately makes them realize something is not right.

      1. AJ MacLeod

        Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

        Funnily enough I actually saw a completely unrequested Win 10 install happen this morning at an office I was working in. Startled by the yells from next door I went through to be accosted by the panicked user demanding to know what I'd done to make their PC suddenly close all their applications and shut down (the guy was actually sending someone a message on his phone when it happened so it wasn't even a stray keypress that authorised it.)

        I guessed what had happened but was obviously too late to stop the process, but spent the time waiting for the install to complete going round installing the invaluable GWX control panel on the rest of the PCs in the office.

        The cost to businesses across the world of dealing with these unwanted downgrades to Windows 10 must be phenomenal, MS ought to have been prosecuted for their behaviour long before now.

      2. Donn Bly

        Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

        I ran into this today as well, countdown timers that windows would NOT allow them to abort. I also concur about GWX Control Panel, it saved the day for me on multiple machines today.

        One of them was only a couple of blocks away so I walked over. Sure enough, even if I ended the task with task manager it automatically restarted. It would let me schedule the upgrade any time within the next 72 hours, or start immediately, but explicitly stated "once you set a time it cannot be changed".

        It would NOT let me abort, it would NOT let me check for windows updates. My solution was to go into installed updates, remove KB3139929, let it reboot (which didn't do the install), then use GWX Control Panel to turn it off.

      3. mswin10

        Re: Its all Hype the histeria is hilarious

        If they run a Business and they haven't got control over what upgrades or installs on there system then I would question there IT department as it sounds very poor, we have 2000 windows 7 PC's and none have auto updated to windows 7 sounds like they might be using the wrong licence. On another note we have more or less completed testing and shall be doing a controlled upgrade to Windows 10 later this year. I really don't know what all the fuss is about its notifications not Ads IE and windows 10 both belong to Microsoft how and where the push them notifications is irrelevant . If people are that worried about personnel information and what businesses can and cant do then they would not be using social media sites which I can guarantee that all the people on here who are spitting there dummies out of the pram are. They will have given out far more information than Microsoft collects that's for sure and those social media sites use it for whatever purpose they choose.

        1. Triggerfish

          Re: Its all Hype the histeria is hilarious @mswin10

          Yes but people are using social media by choice for free and have some control over what goes on there, versus having your pc with software you bought upgrading to something that sends all your info to MS.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Its all Hype the histeria is hilarious

          If they run a Business and they haven't got control over what upgrades or installs on there system then I would question there IT department as it sounds very poor

          Big business, sure, but especially the SMEs which have maybe 10 machines or so do not have those resources, yet they have to fight this sh*t as well.

          I'd send the f*ckers the bill for recovery and serve them a Statutory Demand to lock their doors for business if they didn't pay up. I'm sure I'd easily get that above £750 just on labour alone.

          This must end. Painfully.

    3. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

      "Microsoft has added “non-security updates” to an Update Tuesday patch."

      Surely an upgrade to Windows 10 is effectively a security update. Quite a big one, but it still is.

      1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

        > Surely an upgrade to Windows 10 is effectively a security update.

        Yes it is. But it is only a 'security update' to the security of Microsoft's future revenue streams*.

        * which is, as yet, undeclared fully. It does involve MS moving to extract 30% from 3rd party software sales by converting all software to 'app store' sales. It may also require subscriptions for Microsoft Accounts and/or for future updates and/or for Azure storage and/or Office 360.

      2. DougS Silver badge

        @TheVogon - an update to W10 is effectively a security upgrade

        So's an upgrade to Linux, or DOS 1.0 for that matter - DOS 1.0 is immune to all exploits and malware on a typical modern PC that lacks a floppy drive so if you're concerned about security look no further!

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

        Surely an upgrade to Windows 10 is effectively a security update.

        Only if your definition of "security" has been supplied by Microsoft, which is not really the best source.

        As I stated before, I now actually regret (well, for a moment) leaving the whole Microsoft circus behind because I would have had *serious* fun with an uncontrolled upgrade to Windows 10.

        I *would* have taken that into court as a criminal act of computer vandalism and as I have lectured enough lawyers over the last few months that I am sure I could get a few to entertain themselves with that one.

        Let's be absolutely, crystal clear here: installing Windows 10 without explicit permission of the user is an actionable criminal offence.

        It's not complicated, it's very much binary. With permission: OK. Without permission: criminal.

        Of course, Microsoft UK will be immediately on the phone to its friends in government to somehow get that dealt with, but that's politics, not law, and that may (hopefully) backfire spectacularly if the press gets wind of it

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

          "installing Windows 10 without explicit permission of the user is an actionable criminal offence."

          But how can it be criminal, it was in the EULA. The one in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Snow Leopard'.

    4. Kevin 6

      Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

      Funny you mention this my buddy had to go on a work trip this week left his PC on came back today to find windows 10 installed cause he had auto apply updates enabled. Now he is backing up his data to upgrade back to windows 7.

    5. phil dude
      Linux

      Re: I'll jump in before everybody starts to state the obvious....

      I just wanted to repeat my motivation for ditching M$ and embracing FOSS and Linux for as much as my work as possible.

      The last time I booted a piece of hardware with Windows (vista - stop laughing), I deliberately disconnected the network cable so that no "phoning home" was possible. I kept bypassing the "you need a network connection" box, until it finished installing and left me with a login box (I set the only user as admin).

      I logged in and was deposited at a desktop with nothing on it apart from a logout button.

      Depending on what state of denial you are in (and I guess we are all in some degree of removal from reality...), you might think this recent spike in paranoia.

      I encourage everyone who *can* change, to try anyone of the many FOSS environments. If necessary keep a virtual Windoze on a leash.

      Just remember it is illegal (wtf?) for Microsoft to disclose if there are backdoors in Windows.

      And yes a modicum of paranoia suggests this is a pretty big one.....

      P.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Come on you MS Fans lets have a rational explantion for this one

    As many PC users thingk IE is the Internet, this will shove the 'Come to the wonderful world of Windows 10' right down their faces.

    IMHO, this is no different from a Drug pusher getting you to try the latest highly addictive junk.

    for the rest of us, we will just add another nail to the coffin that is Windows 10 on our systems. No Way, never no etc etc.

    Redmond must be getting desparate. Rather sad really. Can we have Balmer back please?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "we will just add another nail to the coffin"

      Not me. I realised that the coffin was becoming more metal than wood, therefore not structurally sound. So I bent all my nails and fashioned a chain out of them.

      Windows 10 (and Microsoft along with it) are now in a sack, wrapped in chains, at the bottom of an abandoned, flooded quarry.

      I might through a few rocks in, though. Just in case.

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: "we will just add another nail to the coffin"

        Not me. I realised that the coffin was becoming more metal than wood, therefore not structurally sound. So I bent all my nails and fashioned a chain out of them.

        Windows 10 (and Microsoft along with it) are now in a sack, wrapped in chains, at the bottom of an abandoned, flooded quarry.

        I might through a few rocks in, though. Just in case.

        I'd get some garlic, a cross, some stakes and a sliver bullet just in case.

        Seriously.

        1. TimeMaster T

          Re: "we will just add another nail to the coffin"

          And Holy Water, don't forget the Holy Water.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @AC

      Well, I consider myself a Windows (7) fan but even I don't appreciate all this. Here's my problem: I paid solid money for Windows 7 (my PC got shipped with Home Premium, I upgraded it manually to Professional), and when I bought it I was told that it would be supported until 2018 at least.

      So what I want is my moneys worth: support until its EOL. And that doesn't include a forced (and hidden) upgrade to Windows 10 just because they claim it is better. I know it's not.

      My problem: If Microsoft is already so untrustworthy that they'll try to sneak their way out of providing me the experience I paid for, then what guarantees do I have that this won't happen more often in the future? Especially considering how much Win10 relies on Microsoft (app store anyone?).

      If they push any further then I might even go as far as to consider Apple. I still think their products are overpriced, but as far as I know they don't try to force upgrades down your throat like this. And most of the software I use professionally has versions available for both Win and Mac.

      Better thread lightly Microsoft. Because I'm pretty sure that if I start to toy with the whole idea then there are bound to be many others like me. And that would get you the exact opposite of what you're trying to achieve here...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @AC

        [...] I might even go as far as to consider Apple."

        One of the users I support is getting very fed up with the W10 prompts. I gave her the GWX 10 protection widget - but she wants to be assured it won't mess up her W8 system. As I run W7 then I always have to hedge on such assurances.

        She was pretty het up tonight after I warned her about the IE11 update that has slipped through. She says that if W10 forces itself onto her PC then she'll go and buy an Apple as a replacement. I pity the MS support person who gets her call on Monday when she asks how she can stop the W10 nags and upgrades. She doesn't take no for an answer.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @AC

          They will just say go get an Apple then when she realises she cannot do anything then she will be back

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @AC

            "[...] then when she realises she cannot do anything then she will be back"

            Her husband has had Apple Macs for many years - so she knows they will do what she needs. When she was a programmer - Windows was her IT employer's staple PC system. Like many of us - using Windows at home seemed a sensible option.

      2. Kevin 6

        Re: @ShelLuser

        Yea MS better tread lightly cause if say steam machines pick up, and more companies release Linux versions of their games MS might lose a significant market share which is the gamers.

        Pretty much everyone I know who uses Windows would switch to Linux if the games we played would work on it, but MS still has a stranglehold on that for the most part.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @AC

        Better thread lightly Microsoft. Because I'm pretty sure that if I start to toy with the whole idea then there are bound to be many others like me. And that would get you the exact opposite of what you're trying to achieve here...

        Reached that point about 5..6 years ago. Not that I'm 100% ecstatic about moving to OSX and Linux, but given the amount of work we saved in keeping up with patching, licensing and general BS and the lack of crashes I think we've taken the right decision.

        So, Microsoft, "ve fart in yur general direction" (imagine fake French accent)

  3. Martin 47

    Dear Windows

    Fuck Off

    Please

    Thanks

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Dear Windows 10

      Fuck Off

      Please

      Thanks

      TFTFY

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Dear Windows 10

        Fuck Off

        Please

        Thanks

        TFTFY

        Refixed it for you. No need to be polite as this is now farkin' war.

  4. Ohb1knewbie

    RE: “giving users a reason to distrust....Windows Update”

    No matter, if your running Win10 below the Enterprise level - they don't need your trust because they don't need your permission to install whatever updates they like.

    Pray they don't alter the deal further, or don't bother you'll likely never know if they do.

  5. Lysenko

    As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

    Anyone who thinks IE "is the internet" probably should switch to Win10 anyway. It is at the forefront of MSFT security patching and has the longest likely future lifespan. Such a person is at way more risk from specialist malware than anything MSFT is accused of doing. They'll also learn that IE isn't "the internet" when they meet Edge.

    Anyone else probably isn't going to be swayed either way and probably doesn't use IE in any case.

    I mostly use Linux. Of the eight Windows machines I have, all upgraded fine to Win10 except the three I keep on 8.1, 7 and XP deliberately because I need them to test software on. 8.1 is easily the most problematic.

    1. AlbertH
      Megaphone

      Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

      The clueless majority believe that "Windows is essential to computers" and "Windows came free with my computer".

      Sadly, like Socialism, such fundamental stupidity is difficult to eradicate. No amount of explaining, cajoling, educating and malware infestations will change this in the near future. When MS engage the second part of their new "business model" - charging per use for software and charging per day for their "operating system" - a few people will start to realise that they've been taken.

      It really is going to be fun when MS start charging.....

      1. Timmy B Silver badge

        Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

        Wow.... Really. You complain about socialism being stupid and then complain about MS wanting to charge daily for use of their OS. What is it? You like the free market or you don't. You hate Socialism or don't? I really hope you don't use any type of Linux - one of the most socialist things in IT!

        1. billium

          Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

          One cannot have a free market with a monopolist.

          1. Lysenko

            Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

            There hasn't been a monopoly on the desktop since Apple went Intel. No-one is stopping you driving a Ford Cortina or a Sierra, but Ford quite sensibly won't sell you one and your safety will be compromised by modern standards. It's a Mondeo v5 or nothing (from Ford).

            1. Timmy B Silver badge

              Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

              "There hasn't been a monopoly on the desktop since Apple went Intel. No-one is stopping you driving a Ford Cortina or a Sierra, but Ford quite sensibly won't sell you one and your safety will be compromised by modern standards. It's a Mondeo v5 or nothing (from Ford)."

              What if Ford were taking in your V4 Mondeo and giving you a V5 for free but asking you to have a big sign printed on the side or the car and your house saying "I love ford"?

              1. Lysenko

                ...saying "I love ford"?...

                I'd take the upgrade. £20k+ of car for putting a sign on my wall? I'm a businessman. I'm taking that deal.

                Having said that, the seven Win10 machines here have shown no signs of redecorating my house (so far). All they're doing of any significance to me is running faster and requiring fewer reboots.

                I have a Tails VM if I want to browse exotic porn or access embarrassing web sites like the Daily Mail.

              2. cambsukguy

                Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

                >>What if Ford were taking in your V4 Mondeo and giving you a V5 for free but asking you to have a big sign printed on the side or the car and your house saying "I love ford"?

                That would be so fucking cool, a new car for an old one and advertising, I'm in!

                Parking the same model of car on your driveway for 20 years already says the same thing - this is just getting paid for it.

                As a side note, I never get any upgrade to 10 stuff on my Window system, haven't for ages and ages. Must be because I run W10, saves so much effort trying to stop it installing. Now most of the bugs are sorted, it is stable, no reboots required for dodgy IE processes in W7 (which I mostly loved), Edge crashes occasionally but remembers every tab in every window and puts them back in no time, (although not exactly where they were) even after a reboot - never, ever happens with Firefox on my Ubuntu system "Well, that's embarrassing...".

            2. billium

              Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

              @ Lysenko Yes but the damage is already done. Most software today only runs on Windows, e.g. try programming a PLC on a Mac.

              @Tim Sorry I think I misunderstood you, I downvoted your first comment so I'll upvote your second!

              1. Lysenko

                try programming a PLC on a Mac.

                I program PLCs and other embedded stuff all the time. On Linux. That's the reason I mostly use Linux. I could use Windows if I wanted to, but it just makes things more awkward since if there is an embedded OS at all it will be Linux, FreeRTOS or VxWorks. Some of our competitors use WinCE (and descendants) though. I take your point in those cases.

          2. Timmy B Silver badge

            Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

            "One cannot have a free market with a monopolist."

            Surely - in an admittedly over simplistic view - a monopoly is sometimes going to be the end of a free market if a free market is many people starting with similar products? All partakers in a capitalist free market desire to be monopolies don't they, if they want to make more money than others and have more customers?

            1. John Mangan

              Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

              (Hoping I've learnt something from Worral).

              I think the desire on the part of a vendor for a monopoly is entirely natural, more profit, but the market naturally suffers if the monopoly is reinforced by unreasonable rules, bonuses or other behaviour.

              If the monopolist raises prices too high, or drops quality too low, or restricts supply to greatly, et. then the market should respond by allowing other suppliers to come to market.

            2. Richard Plinston Silver badge

              Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

              > All partakers in a capitalist free market desire to be monopolies don't they, if they want to make more money than others and have more customers?

              That is the doctrine of Bill Gates where 'winning' means that everyone else (including the customers) lose. But not everyone in the market wants to be a monopolist. Apple, for example, can make more money (profit) without being the only one in the market by the simple method of being the best, it leaves the low end to many others.

            3. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

              "Surely - in an admittedly over simplistic view - a monopoly is sometimes going to be the end of a free market if a free market is many people starting with similar products? All partakers in a capitalist free market desire to be monopolies don't they, if they want to make more money than others and have more customers?"

              Monopoly is ultimately the end game of capitalism (thus I sometimes call it "Winner Economics"). I compare it often to a poker tournament. Everyone buys in, but eventually the competition whittles down as people bust out, and if you keep at this long enough, you eventually have the last one standing: a de facto monopoly.

        2. arctic_haze Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

          What kind of free market is it when it's next to impossible to buy a PC without paying the Microsoft tax?

          1. TRT Silver badge

            Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

            Yeah, Ford came and took my V4 in the middle of the night and stuck a V5 on the driveway, but I can't and don't want to drive the f***ing thing because they've moved the controls behind the side-window de-misting vent, done away with the gear stick, painted the interior in vivid hues (as in *heeeewwwwssss*) of 8-bit vomit, don't trust me to even change the tyres myself anymore, upload all the GPS tracks, sat-nav data and dash-cam footage to their servers and only let me stream music to the ICE.

        3. Richard Plinston Silver badge

          Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

          > You complain about socialism being stupid

          No he didn't. He stated that socialism was difficult to eradicate and that stupidity was difficult to eradicate and that they were alike in this respect, and possibly that only in this respect are they alike.

          He made no indication about whether he liked socialism or not, or whether it was a good thing or bad.

          However, he did imply that failing to understand what was written was one of the fundamental stupidities.

      2. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

        Rather than the supercilious attitude of suggesting that everyone that doesn't do it your way is a moron, it is time to realise that people who spend 8 hours a day working on a windows PC for their job, are familiar with Windows and applications, so they want windows at home too. They don't actually give a shit about how their PC works, they just want to run their browser and their applications.

        When windows disappears from their 8 hours a day work desktop, then it will disappear from home too.

        People advocating Linux adoption would win a lot more friends if they dropped the holier-than-thou approach, because simple human nature leads people to dig their heels in when they are being derided by a sanctimonious, patronising twat slinging words like "stupidity" and "clueless" at them.

        Don't you "comic-book guy from the Simpsons" stereotypes realise that you are holding Linux back?

        1. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

          Windows at work meant I wanted to avoid it at home

          "it is time to realise that people who spend 8 hours a day working on a windows PC for their job, are familiar with Windows and applications, so they want windows at home too."

          Not quite so fast.

          I started looking for an alternative to Windows for home precisely because I was using a Windows PC for so many hours a day at my job. I specifically did not want to repeat the experience at home.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Linux

        Re: As many PC users think IE is the Internet...

        You're just jealous that I just upgraded my OS for free, for the 16th time in a row, and it went really smoothly.

        Cyber-socialism FTW

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @massivelySerial.

          I upgraded my windows OS for free, from 95, to 98, to xp, to 7.

          Those of us who know how to use SLIC and other means don't pay M$ anyway.

          If M$ are going to pull shit like this, then whilst ever I can obtain their OS for the grand price of nowt, I will do so.

  6. Yag
    Devil

    Well, upgrading to Win 10 is vital for security.

    Security of Microsoft's long term business plan, of course.

  7. Novex

    Stating the Obvious

    This seems to be to get around people who have taken control of Windows Update to prevent the crapware for Windows 10. But, in all likelihood, if someone is that savvy to control updates themselves then they probably aren't using IE11 (e.g. I use Firefox). So exactly how is this strategy going to work?

    As an example, I've switched off all automatic updating in my W7 partition (which I use for one or two things on my laptop, the rest of my work is done via Linux Mint), and now manually kick off the update process and check through the available updates to deselect and hide anything I don't want. IE11 doesn't get a look in.

    1. LDS Silver badge

      Re: Stating the Obvious

      The problem is the IE engine is also used in other applications. So if you don't patch it, you may be vulnerable even if you don't use IE to browse the web.

      Sneaking something like that into a security update it's truly a sleazy move. Nadella and the Bollysoft crew are utterly unable to understand the long term costs of their behaviour.

      1. Aniya
        Mushroom

        Re: Stating the Obvious

        Yep. LDS gets it. You only have to go to "Internet Options" in Internet Explorer to realise just how deeply interlinked Internet Explorer and Windows are. Some settings even go as far as telling you that you need to RESTART YOUR ENTIRE PC in order for said settings to take effect.

        The fuck?

        And don't even get me started on those bloody security zones.

        And proxy settings.

        And maker knows what the hell else.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Stating the Obvious @Aniya

          So you mean YOU don't know what and how to configure IE to stop all that shit?

      2. VinceH Silver badge

        Re: Stating the Obvious

        "The problem is the IE engine is also used in other applications. So if you don't patch it, you may be vulnerable even if you don't use IE to browse the web."

        Indeed. When I went through the updates, I saw 3139929 was for IE, but let it install even though I don't use IE precisely because of other stuff using the engine.

        And, as the article suggests, I didn't notice the sneaky payload those bastards at MS added to it - but even if I had, I'd still have let this one install because of the above. Catch 22*.

        * Until I have time to sort out a spare machine, install a suitable Linux variant on it, and either find suitable equivalents of all the software I need, or ensure I can get existing stuff running.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Stating the Obvious

          "Until I have time to sort out a spare machine, install a suitable Linux variant on it, and either find suitable equivalents of all the software I need, or ensure I can get existing stuff running."

          You'll be in for a long wait, I reckon. Too much software is WINE-unfriendly and has no Linux counterpart, which is why I had to come back to Windows.

      3. Novex

        Re: Stating the Obvious

        The problem is the IE engine is also used in other applications. So if you don't patch it, you may be vulnerable even if you don't use IE to browse the web.

        Sneaking something like that into a security update it's truly a sleazy move. Nadella and the Bollysoft crew are utterly unable to understand the long term costs of their behaviour.

        But, I can let the IE11 patches go in. Because I don't open IE11 to use it for browsing, I don't see how I'm supposed to see the advertising for Win10...

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Explanation

    Coming in a few days:

    "Oops, this was a mistake, we never intended this patch to get included with security updates. It has been removed as part of that patch group." [Now that we've got a couple million more people to accidentally switch.]

  9. AustinTX
    Terminator

    It didn't happen to me

    Ran the updates the other night. For whatever reason, KB3146449 wasn't installed on my machine.

    However, KB3035583 was included in the list of "Important Updates" again FOR THE FIFTH TIME.

    I keep unchecking it and hiding it. It keeps coming back like pernicious cancer.

    Here's my compiled list of unwanted WX and telemetry "updates" which I keep an eye out for. You can put these in a batch file and run as Administrator:

    wusa /uninstall /kb:2952664 /norestart

    wusa /uninstall /kb:2976978 /norestart

    wusa /uninstall /kb:3022345 /norestart

    wusa /uninstall /kb:3035583 /norestart

    wusa /uninstall /kb:3068708 /norestart

    wusa /uninstall /kb:3075249 /norestart

    wusa /uninstall /kb:3080149 /norestart

    wusa /uninstall /kb:3146449 /norestart

    I have W7, so there are actually several more which W8it users should worry about. Once you run the batch, reboot, then launch WU, Search for updates, and manually hide each of the KBs which come back. That'll keep them at bay until microcrap sends the secret signal to unhide them again, heh.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: It didn't happen to me

      I don't know what that latest Patch Tuesday contained but the computer was there for two hours with "do not turn off this computer... installing update 1 of 2..." on the screen.

      I'm going to have to go through the update history now to see if it was installed or not. That'll teach me to value my time and think I can get away with it by allowing automatic updates with optional updates disabled.

      1. alain williams Silver badge

        Re: It didn't happen to me

        Yesterday I was teaching Javascript, delegates ran a mix of Apple and MS Windows machines. Someone's PC (running MS Windows) decided to update and was unusable for 1.5 hours. The lady just accepted it - 'it happens'.

        How on earth are you supposed to run a business when some of the kit randomly goes on strike ?

        1. Timmy B Silver badge

          Re: It didn't happen to me

          "How on earth are you supposed to run a business when some of the kit randomly goes on strike ?"

          You don't. You have proper update systems in place to stop it happening. I am in an office with 18 Windows and 2 Apple PCs and this doesn't happen here. Why? Because they are all configured correctly. The issue here isn't Windows but the IT department behind that persons company,

          1. VinceH Silver badge

            Re: It didn't happen to me

            "You have proper update systems in place to stop it happening. I am in an office with 18 Windows and 2 Apple PCs and this doesn't happen here. Why? Because they are all configured correctly. The issue here isn't Windows but the IT department behind that persons company,"

            Your "I'm alright Jack, so everyone else should be too, unless they're stupid" attitude is fundamentally flawed.

            Don't forget that a business can be small enough that the people working there don't have the requisite IT knowledge, and the business itself doesn't have the budget to either have an IT department or contract someone else to look after their computers on a regular basis, instead bringing in a third party when things go wrong.

            1. Timmy B Silver badge

              Re: It didn't happen to me

              "Your "I'm alright Jack, so everyone else should be too, unless they're stupid" attitude is fundamentally flawed."

              I see your point in some cases. In those cases I think that automatic updates are a great solution. The compromise will be that occasionally there is down time. But there is an option to delay reboots in pretty much any Windows update.

          2. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: It didn't happen to me

            You don't. You have proper update systems in place to stop it happening. I am in an office with 18 Windows and 2 Apple PCs and this doesn't happen here.

            Yet if you take the PCs home and they decide to phone home to Windows Update...

          3. ecofeco Silver badge

            Re: It didn't happen to me

            The issue here isn't Windows but the IT department behind that persons company,

            No, the issue is that most small businesses have NO IT dept and never will. There is no budget for it. Not even the once a month visiting tech.

            These size businesses make up the larger part of the everyday business world and they are NOT tech savvy.

            1. Vic

              Re: It didn't happen to me

              the issue is that most small businesses have NO IT dept and never will. There is no budget for it. Not even the once a month visiting tech.

              All other things aside, this attitude needs to change. PCs are, generally speaking, a necessary tool for the business. Not having someone look after them is like a delivery company deciding not to look after their vans; sooner or later, those essential tools will fail to work for the business (and may actively work against it).

              Businesses can find budget to service their vehicles. They can find budget to clean their offices. They can find budget to have accountants sort their tax paperwork. They need to understand that servicing their computers is just as important as any of these other items.

              Vic.

              1. mswin10

                Re: It didn't happen to me

                Wow you have restored sanity there are some people who really understand business IT I was beginning to think logic had gone from this forum

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: It didn't happen to me

                "Businesses can find budget to service their vehicles. They can find budget to clean their offices. They can find budget to have accountants sort their tax paperwork. They need to understand that servicing their computers is just as important as any of these other items."

                We're talking businesses small enough that (a) there are no company vehicles (a prerequisite for a position there is owning a car), (b) cleaning is self-done on an "as needed" basis since clients never see the innards, (c) the owner is the one who does all the money matters and therefore files the tax paperwork, and (d) the margins for many of these businesses are razor-thin. They can't get the business any more stable in today's cutthroat world; sure, one mistake and you're dead, but the alternative is to be dead already. Sorry, but c'est la vie. If people have to play tight to live, they'll play it as tight as they have to, even if that means a business of one.

              3. Vic

                Re: It didn't happen to me

                They need to understand that servicing their computers is just as important as any of these other items.

                OK, here's a question for all you downvoters:

                Why do you believe that companies shouldn't look after the tools on which they rely?

                Vic.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: It didn't happen to me

              "These size businesses make up the larger part of the everyday business world and they are NOT tech savvy."

              OK. So now might seem like a good time to

              (a) start thinking about what budget they can afford, if IT matters to the business

              (b) start looking at affordable locally supported alternatives to Microsoft

    2. Boothy

      Re: It didn't happen to me

      @AustinTX

      If your using Win 7, why do you have a Win 8/8.1 KB listed?

      KB2976978 is the Win 8/8.1 'Compatibility update', KB2977759 is the Win 7 version.

      I've also got KB3083710 and KB3112343 on my blacklist, but otherwise have essentially the same list as yourself (I'm also on Win 7).

  10. GregC

    We've no idea what that means, so have asked Microsoft

    I'll save you the bother. It means they are a bunch of c***s.

    As has already been said, I'm not sure what they think this will achieve - those of us who have blocked W10 by switching to manual updates or other means are unlikely to be using IE, so will never see this.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Windows 10 is growing nicely,"

    Just like a cancer, to paraphrase Steve Ballmer.

  12. HAL-9000
    Coat

    Edge case

    Am I right in thinking some crap old laboratory instrument software, that hasn't been patched since day 0; That none-the-less is vital to business function will be bolloxed once M$ get their way and insert 10 up my exhaust pipe? If anyone at M$ reads this drivel, take note that VM/containerized windows 7 images from a linux host are looking very appealing at the moment. I find it strange there hasn't been a lot of noise from business communities about the data security of windows 10.

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    2. Lysenko

      noise from business communities about the data security of windows 10...

      Businesses are mostly going to be using Enterprise SKUs and controlling telemetry via group policies. The Win10 "privacy nightmare" is almost entirely about the Home SKU left with its default settings and no organisation with a competent sysadmin is going to allow that to happen either now or at any time since MS-DOS.

      1. MrTuK

        Re: noise from business communities about the data security of windows 10...

        That is quite funny, if you think that MS turn off all telemetry for Enterprise, do you really think the WUS doesn't communicate with MS, how does it download any updates for the business then ?

        What does it send to MS, since it is encrypted, I doubt anyone would know except MS of course !

        How much data does it send, how often does it sent it and what exactly is it sending and are you sure that it is only requesting the latest security patches or updates or is it also sending other information, maybe stats of what networked device's are connected to it, maybe other information too !

        Of course this would be Commercial suicide if it were caught, but since it's communication is encrypted then how would you know ?

        But MS would never do this would they or maybe they would ?

        1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

          Re: noise from business communities about the data security of windows 10...

          > maybe other information too !

          It is very likely to include software usage data so that 'audits' are automated and the 'software assurance' invoice is updated immediately (and permanently) every time each computer accesses something they weren't already licensed to do so.

      2. HAL-9000

        Re: noise from business communities about the data security of windows 10...

        You thought I was concerned about big business, I was referring to the large number of SME's that have little if any IT support staff, and usually piloted by a bonafide IT illiterate. They may not make redmond rich individually, but they are significant in the great scheme. Probably more so when you consider there reduced ability to haggle.

        1. Lysenko

          I was referring to the large number of SME's

          Kevin's Bargain Garage Door Emporium probably doesn't give an aardvark's left gonad if the OS uploads the entire contents of the hard drive to Redmond. If they're ever talked in Office 365 or OneDrive or Azure then the entire selling point is uploading everything to Redmond.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Edge case

      Any business that does not keep there systems patched up are playing with fire as for windows 10 we shall be rolling out to 2000 pcs later this year, not a problem

    4. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Edge case

      " If anyone at M$ reads this drivel, take note that VM/containerized windows 7 images from a linux host are looking very appealing at the moment."

      If it's very expensive custom hardware using customized drivers, you'll find that virtualizing isn't an option because that kind of hardware can't be virtualized. Remember the time someone mentioned a six-figure computer-controlled lathe that ran XP because it was the last Microsoft OS that had drivers for the ISA bus that ran the installed custom controller board that couldn't be updated because it was part and parcel with the machine?

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Reverse class action lawsuit

    That is all.

    Who is with me?

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: Reverse class action lawsuit

      Sorry ?

      You mean for Microsoft to sue all its customers ?

      Nope, I'm not really with you on that one.

  14. Mikel

    Brainstorming

    There's a bunch of people in a conference room right now in Redmond plotting which increments to make this worse. Don't even think this is all of it by half. It isn't.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: Brainstorming

      Increments or excrement?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't inhale!

    Oh, too late.

  16. TRT Silver badge

    Growing nicely...

    Like Japanese knotweed.

    1. Someone Else Silver badge

      Re: Growing nicely...

      ...or kudzu.

  17. arctic_haze Silver badge

    What happens in August?

    I wonder what happens when Windows 10 stops being free. Will Redmont still try to shove it up my ass?

    Until today I thought the nagging will stop in August but now I have doubts. Maybe they will lengthen the free period for "late upgraders"? Like one or two extra months. Because it would be next to impossible to force me to an upgrade which wants your Credit Card number to bill me? Or maybe I'm naive here?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What happens in August?

      Will Redmont?

      By August you'll be walking strange if he succeeds.

  18. Boothy

    So another one to add to the black list

    Windows 10 Blacklist:

    • KB2952664- Compatibility update for upgrading Windows 7
    • KB2977759 - Compatibility checker.
    • KB3022345 - Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
    • KB3035583 - Get Windows 10 app
    • KB3068708 - Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
    • KB3075249 - Update that adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Win 8.1 and 7
    • KB3080149 - Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
    • KB3083710 - Changes to group policy related to Win 10 update
    • KB3112343 - "This update enables support for additional upgrade scenarios from Windows 7 to Windows 10"

    And now...

    • KB3146449 - IE11 Update to add Windows 10 ads.

    1. Captain Badmouth

      Re: So another one to add to the black list

      "KB3146449 - IE11 Update to add Windows 10 ads."

      I think that's KB3139929

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So another one to add to the black list

        Quote "I think that's KB3139929"

        Erm, nope, KB3146449 according to the article. KB3139929 isn't mentioned in the article and is unrelated to Windows 10 as far as I can see.

        From MS themselves:

        KB3146449 = "This update adds functionality to Internet Explorer 11 on some computers that lets users learn about Windows 10 or start an upgrade to Windows 10."

        KB3139929 = "This security update resolves several reported vulnerabilities in Internet Explorer. The most severe of these vulnerabilities could allow remote code execution if a user views a specially crafted webpage in Internet Explorer. To learn more about these vulnerabilities, see Microsoft Security Bulletin MS16-023."

        1. GregC

          Re: So another one to add to the black list

          According to another piece I just read about this, KB3139929 is the one that shows up in Windows Update, but it then also installs KB3146449 (among others). As well as the text quoted above the MS page for 3139929 also says:

          Additionally, this security update includes several nonsecurity-related fixes for Internet Explorer.

          So not only are they pushing out Win10 adware into IE, they're hiding the update responsible for it inside a security update.

          As I said earlier. C***s.

        2. Captain Badmouth
          Headmaster

          Re: So another one to add to the black list

          @ ac

          "Erm, nope, KB3146449 according to the article. KB3139929 isn't mentioned in the article and is unrelated to Windows 10 as far as I can see."

          Read a little deeper :

          http://www.infoworld.com/article/3042155/microsoft-windows/windows-patch-kb-3139929-when-a-security-update-is-not-a-security-update.html

  19. Camilla Smythe Silver badge

    Sigh...

    In the past my Cat often tried to install itself on the keyboard.

    http://dilbert.com/strip/1994-09-14

    I used to have to be quick on the,

    CTRL|ALT|L

    .. but we seem to have reached some mutual thing or another whereby he he walks over it and settles down for a kip between the keyboard and the monitor.

    Presumably if I was running Windows the Cat would still be trying to install itself on the keyboard.

    1. Havin_it
      Headmaster

      Re: Sigh...

      Unless your "Cat" is of the Deeley, Stevens or Red Dwarf variety, don't capitalise it. People will tend to read into that sort of thing ;)

      Try mapping all the keys to play some of these babies in your favourite audio player, might work for training. (Leave your webcam on and you might even get twenty quid off Harry Hill for the results!)

  20. Captain Badmouth
    Facepalm

    I've worked it out...

    Microsoft are trying to get us all onto Linux and then slowly take over Linux when we've nowhere else to go, it's already starting :

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/10/sql_server_2016_linux_screenshot/

    Oh, no's...

  21. Brian Milnes

    re: "Fuck you Microsoft"

    I'll second that.

    Windows 10 "upware" disguised as Security Updates.

    And they keep coming back, with variants. As soon as we got rid of the previous lot. There's more.

  22. Comunicate Manifest

    Tempest in a Teapot

    Until you know what this update does, what's the point in getting hot under the collar?

    For all you know, it just makes sure that should someone decide to (up-side-down)grade to Windows 10, that the settings etc. of IE 11 on the older install get properly carried over to the newer one.

    Moreover, some aspect of the IE patch may be a indeed be a security improvement regardless.

    So while I get that people don't like the aggressive promotion of Windows 10, this particular incident seems innocuous until proven otherwise.

    1. The_Idiot

      Re: Tempest in a Teapot

      @Communicate Manifest

      "Until you know what this update does, what's the point in getting hot under the collar?"

      First, and in genuine and sincere respect, you are of course entitled to any view you want. But, and I regret having to say that I have one (and my wife tells me it's much too large (blush)), well, but... if it appears someone is about to stab me with a knife, I don't really think I should have to wait to find out exactly what the wound is going to be before I get a little upset about it. And maybe try to take preventative action.

      In my opinion, and I fully accept it is only an opinion, enough people have seen what looks like a 'knife' in MS's hands previously in this matter, and/ or have known directly and/ or indirectly others who have suffered 'wounds'. As a result - collars may indeed get hot, with, to those undergoing temperature overload, perceived justification.

      Or not - after all, I'm an Idiot :-).

      1. revdjenk

        Re: Tempest in a Teapot

        ...Und Macheath, der hat ein Messer...

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft, still scummy as ever.

    What. A. Surprise.

  24. Ramon Zarat
    FAIL

    M$ repeated abuses

    Had to hide KB3035583, AGAIN, for the 9TH TIME, in the last 10 months! If this is not abuse, I don't know what it is! M$ comes into MY computer and decide for me what I should download, repedatly disregarding MY choice not to download an update? And M$ wonder why everybody hates them so much?

    This is the full list of KB to avoid. Don't believe me? Just Google anyone of them, realize M$ bullshit and immediately uninstall. My Windows 7 auto update has been at OFF for several months now. I'm doing it manually once a month, screening any of the many undesirables and hide them.

    No wonder M$ wants to fully automate the update process by preventing any user intervention on Windows 10, the rented for ever, NSA approved, Orwellian edition. There is no such thing as "free" in life. When it's "free", YOU and your personal information becomes the product. Are you for sale? Me neither. That's why I want to ***PAY*** for the product that I ***OWN***.

    Confirmed 2015 bad:

    KB2952664

    KB2977759

    KB2990214

    KB3021917

    KB3022345

    KB3035583

    KB3046480

    KB3050265

    KB3065987

    KB3068708

    KB3075249

    KB3075851

    KB3080149

    KB3083324

    KB3083710

    NEW 2016 bad:

    KB3123862

    KB3146449

  25. J J Carter Silver badge
    Linux

    I wish to rant hysterically about unspeakably evil MSFT!

    As title

  26. Chika
    Flame

    Thankfully, 3146449 isn't on my front line W7 machine. Maybe this is one patch that is actually honouring the "no update" switches in the registry, unlike two other well known patches, namely 2952664 and 3035583...

    It's going into my list to block though (or Killcrap) ASAP.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Illegal Spamming by Microsoft

    Microsoft has really gone far beyond the reasonable in attempts to exploit consumers and force all to update to Win 10 and IE 11. Microsoft is refusing to support any new CPUs from AMD, Intel or Qualcomm unless users update to Win 10. This is illegal IMO and unscrupulous as Microsoft is obligated to provide extended customer support for Win 7 thru Jan. of 2020. MS wants to coerce everyone into updating to Win 10 by refusing to provide a simple patch for the new AMD Zen products being released this Fall and in 2017 along with new Intel and Qualcomm processors released in 2017. This is unreasonable and exploitation of Win 7 and 8 users who do not desire to update to the insecure, privacy invading, spy reporting Win 10.

    To make things worse MS is also SPAMMING IE10 users to harass them into updating to IE 11. This consumer abuse MUST STOP. People need to contact their state and federal consumer protection agencies and file formal complaints against Microsoft for their blatant violations of law.

  28. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  29. Someone Else Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Horse has left the barn on that one!

    Whether promoting Windows 10 is worth giving users a reason to distrust the very valuable Windows Update service is ultimately Microsoft's decision to make [...].

    Way too late on that one, folks. I've distrusted the basically useless Windows Update service since its inception. I update what I want, when I want, and fuck Micros~1 and the horse it rode in on with respect to letting those chumps manipulate my (yes, Micros~1, that's my, not your) system.

    1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

      Re: Horse has left the barn on that one!

      > Micros~1

      Microsoft own patents on creating short names, in order to use Microsoft's technology you are required to purchase a licence.

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        Devil

        @ Richard Plinston -- Re: Horse has left the barn on that one!

        You may very well be right (although one could reasonably argue that this is not a patent issue, but merely a copyright issue, which Micros~1 does not have rights to...but that's a discussion for another time...). But even if that is true, my response: Fuck you Micros~1, and the horse you rode in on.

        1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

          Re: @ Richard Plinston -- Horse has left the barn on that one!

          > one could reasonably argue that this is not a patent issue

          No, it is a patent issue. Microsoft have the VFAT patent which is primarily about the forming of both long names and short names for, say, SD cards, and is the foundation for extorting fees from Android.

          1. Someone Else Silver badge
            Happy

            Re: @ Richard Plinston (again) -- Horse has left the barn on that one!

            Richard, were I to be creating a file system that used that mechanism to hash long filenames down into an 8.3 name format, I might well run afoul of a Micros~1 patent. Writing about a file system that used that mechanism to hash long filenames down into an 8.3 name format, or using that approach to lampoon, parody, or otherwise denigrate the holder of said patent, has fuck-all to do with patents.

            (I do hope you're simply being playful, and giving me a hard time for the fun of it; if you are, you succeeded, and I applaud. If, on the other hand, you're fully serious, methinks you have some homework to do.)

    2. Havin_it
      Headmaster

      Re: Horse has left the barn on that one!

      It's MICROS~1 (case insensitive). Everyone shouted back then because there wasn't an Internet to complain about it.

      Get it right or don't bother, FFS.

  30. Brian Allan 1

    MS Right Up There With The Best Spammers!

    Want updates? Take Microsoft SPAM along with it! Your choice...

  31. Nathan 13

    How bad it must W10 be

    For MS to try so hard to force it on people's PCs. Have they no shame let alone morals?

    A couple of my friends have inadvertently installed the W10 downgrade. I have at least put classic shell on, made sure they never have to see the shit metro screen and (hopefully) disabled all the tele bullshit.

    I really cant be arsed to do a restore/re-format because they will only click some button that downgrades it to 10 again.

    1. Havin_it

      Re: How bad it must W10 be

      Just bung Mint on it with a Redmond-esque theme convincingly similar to whichever version they were using, and a couple of shortcuts ("My Documents" et al.) on the desktop. You'll probably never hear from them again, and if you do it'll be a problem you can solve.

      1. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: How bad it must W10 be

        You forget the GAMES. Especially once headliners become DX12-exclusive, meaning W10 or Bust.

        1. Havin_it

          Re: How bad it must W10 be

          You make a fair point. My comment was focused solely on people who use a computer as, y'know, a computer.

          Those people, I might help (or snow for the sake of a quiet future, as above) as time and sanity permit. People who buy a PC for gaming just aren't in my natural constituency, so I'll probably just advise them to buy a PlayBoneWeeStationZX, or try dating.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: How bad it must W10 be

            Consoles won't help much with players who prefer KB/M gaming (like MMOs); as for dating, they may not like socializing, thinking it's overrated.

  32. linuxrob
    IT Angle

    Ho Hum

    It looks like I need to keep fire-fighting this Windows Last thing for the foreseeable future. Part of me wants to turn off all Windows updates on customers Win 7 and 8.1 machines but I know I would get it in the neck if any of these machines had the slightest problem. Trying to educate even business owners is mostly a thankless task, most still are not even backing up never mind safe IT.

    I will continue to lurk in here and watch from the sidelines as this unholy mess speeds to it's inevitable conclusion. I would like to think it will be the demise of Microsoft but more likely their victory and a subscription model.

    1. mswin10

      Re: Ho Hum

      These people that keep saying they hope windows dies and goes away well you do not have to wait you have apple or linux and if they are not you want then stop harping on and live with it or your argument is meaningless

  33. Old Handle

    Does anyone know of a whitelist-based tool to select only the actual security security updates from Microsoft? I'm getting seriously tired of doing it manually. I know there are some tools for uninstalling known bad updates that feature spyware and whatnot, but it would be much better if there was an easy way to only install the important stuff in the first place.

    1. AustinTX

      Yes, it would be nice to have a resident program that blocks microsoft's resident infection. Something that auto-updates so I can put it on customer's PCs and leave it. I have "GWX Control Panel" installed on several machines, but it really just watches for KB3035583 and, ironically, it puts an even more prominent [10] icon on the task tray.

      1. Captain Badmouth
        Thumb Up

        Re ; GWX control panel

        "it really just watches for KB3035583"

        No it alerts you to the fact that you have KB2952664 still installed, not surprising as most machines will have multiple examples all with the same name.

  34. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    Bugger Off Slurp

    To Slurp - Bugger Off. Note you will never be installed on any kit in the future nor will any kit with Winbloat ever be bought.

    Former User.

  35. Someone has already used that handle. Please pick another.

    Next

    WinX will continue to be pushed unscrupulously after the "free" period but as semi-crippled nag-ware.

    MS: "Yes - as previously announced WinX is no longer available for free."

    Seems like they'd be crossing yet another line tricking folks into ransom-ized WinX. Maybe after the free period they will stop this nonsense and we won't need WinX counter-measures? Dare to dream.

  36. This post has been deleted by its author

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Even hacked ones

    I just ran updates on my two MSWin7 test setups (one VirtualBox one, and a junker/clunker mini-profile machine I hide in the attic & access remotely) These are running hacks that make the "evaluation" versions run forever. I actually saw the "get Windows 10" show up on the VirtualBox one. And I thought having a hacked version would protect me from that nonsense. Well, might as well tar up the VBox one and at least do a migration test (then I can dump the original MSW7 one back).

  38. Captain Badmouth
    Flame

    More interesting stuuf here

    From a few days ago.

    http://www.infoworld.com/article/3042397/microsoft-windows/admins-beware-domain-attached-pcs-are-sprouting-get-windows-10-ads.html

  39. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
    Pint

    A stupid Endless Loop is a noobie error

    10 PRINT "Hey! Upgrade to Windows 10."

    20 PRINT "This device is not compatible with Windows 10."

    30 GOTO 10

    Microsoft are morons to allow this to continue.

    Not an isolated case. At least five laptops and a tablet.

    Dough-heads.

  40. raving angry loony

    What do you have installed?

    For the uninitiated (such as myself), the DOS command to list installed updates is:

    wmic qfe list brief

    you can redirect that to a file, so:

    wmic qfe list brief > C:\hotfix.txt

    There are supposed to be other formats, but the commands documented on the Microsoft Windows 7 tech site don't actually work. Something that doesn't surprise me in the least.

    ps: aww, I lost my badge. I guess that means I have a life now??

    1. Vic

      Re: What do you have installed?

      aww, I lost my badge

      I suspect you might have a browser problem; I can see it...

      I guess that means I have a life now??

      *snort*.

      Vic.

  41. mswin10
    Go

    Please jump

    See the Apple and Linux fan boys are here again trolling the waves obviously not happy with there own systems else why even bother to read about articles relating to a Windows, For all those that wish to jump please do so but try to do it quietly and try to make sure you hit the ground head first to at least guarantee we do not in the likelyhood that you may live otherwise have to listen to your babble.

  42. mswin10

    windows 7 has been updating regular since its release

    windows 7 has been updating regular since its release so why all the fuss about updates to windows 10 or upgrading to windows 10 its being hyped up like its something new 3.1, 95, 98, millennium, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8,8.1 and now 10,

    So what's more amusing is the people who say they hate Microsoft and Windows and no one will move them off Windows . The Register is turning out to be a great place to read stupid comments from I guess thicko's

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Please jump

      Speaking of comments from thickos (your words): how kind of you to register today specifically to make these most enlightening comments. It's almost (almost) as though you're a Linux fanboi pretending to be a thick MS fanboi so that it makes MS fanbois look silly.

    2. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: windows 7 has been updating regular since its release

      windows 7 has been updating regular since its release so why all the fuss about updates to windows 10

      1. MS pushing 7 redundant copies of w10 onto my machines when I only needed one copy.

      2. Using up all of my mobile data to do this requiring me to purchase more bandwidth.

      3. Pushing my fixed wireless over the limit so I was shaped to 256k for 3 weeks.

      4. W10 destabilised the machine it was installed to so not suitable for purpose. I also didn't like interface changes.

      5. Allowing w10 onto the machine I use as a TV tuner meant no Windows Media Centre so the TV would no longer work as a TV. The software that came with the tuner hardware didn't work on w7, so was unlikely to work under w10, never mind the hardware.

      Now obviously Internet bandwidth is free in the land of MS. Not free in the Land of Under. Likewise TV tuners and software. Either that or "free" means "costs you money" in the Land of the Free.

      And people wonder why we think Merkins are mad!

  43. Carl D

    The worrying thing about Microsoft's behaviour is that they probably think they're doing everyone a favour. I'll bet Nadella & Co. (and most if not all business leaders today) don't see the slightest thing wrong with what they're doing. It's like they're living in an alternate reality to the rest of us

    Welcome to the new world where annoying the hell out of people is the norm. Just look at the garbage that passes for free to air television today as an example - more ads than program, annoying 'popups' while you're actually trying to enjoy the small sections of program between the ads, etc., etc.

    And people (especially the young ones with their faces glued to their smartphones seemingly 24/7) just appear to accept it. I weep for the future of humanity.

    Anyone seen the 1988 movie "They Live"? It's about someone who discovers a pair of sunglasses that allow him to wake up to the fact that aliens have taken over the Earth. That's what the world seems like today with the likes of Nadella & Co.

  44. nkuk

    Its nice to not have to worry about this any more

    I used to worry about which updates were the useful ones and which ones were unwanted telemetry/nagware/spyware, since upgrading to Mint I just accept them all without any concern.

  45. DLSmith

    I'm Surprised

    I"m surprised that MS hasn't taken a different tack on forcing all of us to upgrade by crafting updates that incrementally install little parts of WIN10 one at a time. So, instead of one large obvious change, little bits creep in over the period of a year or so, claiming them to be "updates" and "added functionality" or whatever fucking buzzword they decide to use.

    When I retire in the next couple of years, and I no longer have to use apps that are not available on Linux, Windows may get replaced by LInux.

    1. Havin_it

      Re: I'm Surprised

      To some extent, that's what is happening: The telemetry features are backported (I'm not sure how extensively they mirror those of W10 but there have been a few KBs so far).

      But upgrading the whole OS core bit-by-bit is a tall order by any stretch (and remember that, when it comes down to it, MS just aren't that good at software). Considering how many PCs are getting hosed just by the existing monolithic upgrade, doing it in such a complicated and shifty way would just be asking for even bigger chaos IMHO.

      Also, seriously: don't wait until you retire. Get a dual-boot sorted out (most Linux distro installers can do this for you these days) and use it whenever you don't need to be using Windows. By the time you do retire, you'll be doing so with more hair left attached to your head!

  46. Asok Asus

    get rid of w10 nagware & spyware once and for all

    GWX Control Panel ( http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads ) does some good things, but it hasn't kept up with the full list of KB updates that ought to be removed beyond just KB3035583, namely:

    KB3035583

    KB3022345

    KB3068708

    KB3075249

    KB3080149

    KB2990214

    KB3044374

    KB2952664

    KB2976978

    KB3021917

    KB3112336

    KB3112343

    KB3083711

    KB3083710

    KB3123862

    KB3012973

    KB3146449

    KB3139929

    So I've made some easy-to-use tools to help put an end to this coerced Windows 10 installation nonsense. They can be downloaded from here and then unzipped:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_hrA7ihzIPlVXpRUnJyc1AyNkU/view?usp=sharing

    The three included tools uninstall the Windows 10 nagware and the Microsoft "telemetry" (spyware) "updates" from Windows 7 and Windows 8.x Operating Systems if they are installed, prevent the updates from being reinstalled, and remove the Windows 10 installer folder $WINDOWS.~BT if it is present.

    These tools must be run from an account with Administrative privilege, which is the case (unfortunately) for most accounts. They can also be run from a non-Administrator account by right-clicking them and then left-clicking on "Run as Administrator".

    The tools are most effective when run in the following order:

    1. Run PreventW10InstallationUAC.exe to set Microsoft Update to "manual only" mode and modify a couple of registry variables that tell the OS to never allow a newer OS to be installed. This tool will run quickly unless you accept the optional request (recommended) to make a System Restore Point before the tool makes it changes, in which case the Restore Point will take a while to make.

    Note that after this procedure finishes, no more Microsoft updates will be applied unless you manually request a check for updates and then decide which updates to accept, though making such decisions requires knowledge that the average user usually does not possess. However, for mature operating systems I personally believe that blindly accepting Microsoft updates at this juncture has more downsides than upsides.

    (If you DO want to attempt to manually check for updates, you'll first have to change the Windows Update setting from "Never Check for Updates" to "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them" before you click the "Check for updates" button.)

    2. Run RemoveW10NagwareTool.exe to remove a set of Microsoft updates that relate to Windows 10 nagware ("white flag") popup, Microsoft spyware, and the Windows 10 installer itself if any of them have been installed. Detection and uninstallation can take a few minutes to complete.

    If any of this set of updates is found, you'll need to reboot the system.

    It might also be necessary to run this tool again after rebooting if the nagware update had previously been slated to be installed AGAIN, in which case after rebooting, you'll STILL see the Windows 10 ("white flag") nag. If that's the case, just run this tool again and reboot again, and then run PreventW10InstallationUAC.exe again.

    3. Finally, after you're sure the Windows 10 nagware has been removed, run RemoveW10Folder.exe to detect and remove the Windows 10 install folder if it is found.

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