back to article Microsoft Office 365: You don't need 27 floppies, but there is desktop friction

Microsoft would like us to think of Office 365, its hosted email and collaboration service, as “cloud”. And it is in many ways; you can even get all your email and OneDrive-stored documents direct from a web browser. The truth though is that Microsoft has been careful not to disrupt its desktop Office software too much. Most …

  1. CAPS LOCK Silver badge

    People need to be warned that Office 365 is not the same as Office 2016 ...

    ... several of my friends have only discovered the difference after migrating. Now the are faced with trying to migrate back.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: People need to be warned that Office 365 is not the same as Office 2016 ...

      "You have to remove Office using Control Panel, then reinstall it from the Office 365 portal"

      No you don't. Just install it and it will remove / update the old version automatically.

      1. Tim Anderson

        Re: People need to be warned that Office 365 is not the same as Office 2016 ...

        > No you don't. Just install it and it will remove / update the old version automatically.

        Sorry, doesn't work in this case. I believe the problem is that the plan change meant a downgrade to a version of Office without Access and probably other differences. Anyway, the documented migration specifies that you must remove Office from Control Panel.

      2. oceanhippie

        Re: People need to be warned that Office 365 is not the same as Office 2016 ...

        "No you don't. Just install it and it will remove / update the old version automatically."

        You are kidding right? Office will happily install in a trully mind boggling array of FAIL. It will happily install 3 different versions of its self. Plus the the flogware shortcut welded to the PC. I've seen poor IT techs with 32bit and 64bit and a different build number of publisher all on the same machine. None would work or uninstall. And that was with out help from 365.

        MS has a specail "Office Nuke" app for fixing really &$%$%&$ up installs. Though by this time it's usually too late. Bury the PC in a disued mine shaft interstate. Sell the customer a new one. Then check the tech into a new padded office to slowly wheen him off hold music and back onto solids.

        Rum may also help at this point...

        1. Chris Parsons
          Headmaster

          Re: People need to be warned that Office 365 is not the same as Office 2016 ...

          Downvoted for poor spelling and grammar, and use of word 'interstate'.

  2. John Styles

    One of the issues with having Office 365 is that you don't get Ace installed on your PC - see https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2874601

    Obviously a PITA if you want to use Ace. Even more if you write software which uses Ace (not for very much - just for import and export) and have to think of how to document this given Microsoft's opaque documentation on when you get Ace and when you don't.

    1. TheVogon Silver badge

      "One of the issues with having Office 365 is that you don't get Ace installed on your PC"

      No, the issue is that the Office 365 client install by default runs in a virtualised container (what they refer to as Click-To-Run). Think like Docker if you are from an Open Source background, but this is based on something called App-V (originally SoftGrid) which is a rather more mature and sophisticated solution (for instance it has install on demand and application streaming technology - so it can start running before installation has completed!) and is far more widely adopted - although you might not be aware of it!

      Hence you need to understand and manage connectivity to applications outside of that CTR container accordingly. You do not have to install Office 365 as a CTR app if you don't want to - you can still install it using an MSI option.

      1. John Styles

        Yes, obviously, I was simplifying. This is on user's computers, not mine - therefore our documentation has to include exactly the sort of irksome wibble that you describe above and the customers have to understand it (or more likely CBA because in an organisation of thousands of users, only a handful need ACE)

  3. Tom Chiverton 1

    "The horrible details are here"

    No they aren't.

    1. imcdnzl

      Re: "The horrible details are here"

      If you click through to the original article (link at bottom) then it does have the link. Agree it should be posted in this re-post though.

  4. Oli 1

    this has been an issue in the guise of Install ALL or Install NOTHING as well

    Trying to explain to a CEO that you can no longer "just install outlook" or "just put word 2013 on" is impossible and causes friction alround!

    Ahh life in the cloud

    1. inmypjs Silver badge

      "ALL or Install NOTHING"

      Good to see Microsoft's have taken their tradition of producing incestuous messes to the cloud.

    2. durbans

      You can choose which components you would like to install if you use the custom installation configuration.xml file :-)

    3. KeithR

      "Ahh life in the cloud"

      Nothing to do with "the cloud" - just how it's been implemented.

  5. WonkoTheSane Silver badge
    Trollface

    Just plain NO!

    LibreOffice FTW

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just plain NO!

      I thought the same for awhile. Every time I sent a file to someone they thought I was drunk when I created it because the formatting almost always gets hashed. MS Office is just better too... faster, more functionality, better integration, general look and feel.

  6. psychonaut

    2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

    its fucking appalling.

    go and buy a single license. you have to set up an ms account.

    so you do that.

    then you buy another 5 licenses for the same client.

    there is NO WAY of telling which install is on which machine, except, and this comes straight from ms, by the date (not the time, the date) of install which is on the portal next to the install. so if one of them gets problems and you have to reinstall, you guess which one it is. if you get the wrong one, you then have 2 problems, because the one you just accidentally removed now will flash up activation warnings on the pc that it was on. so then you have to figure out which one that is, reinstate it, etc etc.

    so you either set up different ms accounts for every single pc with 1 license in each, or install 1 per day.

    fucking bravo MS, really clever. you fucking dicks.

    i mean, how fucking difficult is it to put the machine name or mac address or something in the fucking portal next to the install?

    as for the streamed install, this is also bullshit. what i want is an msi. then i dont have to download fucking tonnes of data every time i want to install office. if im installing it on 10 machines, i have to download the whole thing 10 times.

    it also says "ive finished installing". then about a day later you will get a call from someone because office isnt responding, and they havent noticed the "office is just downloading and installing a component" . so it didnt do a proper install in the first place.

    jesus christ, its hard enough as it is without a domain, why are they making it harder?

    if anyone has any more up to date news (becuase i have been installing 2010 ever since the nightmare i had) on how to deal with multiple 2013 / 2016 / 365 installs, i would love to hear it.

    dont get me strated on the "unable to manually configure exchange accounts in 2016". if you dont have an autoconfigure record in your customers dns, you have to go and amend the hosts file, which can also be fun with hosted exchange. just let me enter the details if i need to thankyou very much.

    1. hplasm Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

      You seem to be experiencing some friction- do you want help with that?

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

        You seem to be experiencing some friction- do you want help with that?

        No thanks just pass the Lube, then kindly fork off there Clippy...

        Actually now I'm wondering if Ballmer has since re-hired Clippy as the Mascot for his Basketball Team?

    2. durbans

      Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

      Autodiscover has been the de facto configuration method for an Outlook profile for 3 years now, and has been around for almost 10 years. It's much easier for the user to create an Outlook profile (as long as you've configured autod correctly, and for Office 365 its a simple case of 1 DNS record).

      You can deploy Office from a network share/USB drive also using the Click-to-run deployment tool, this is my standard deployment method on all my customers sites. So you don't need to be downloading the files every time and you also don't need an MSI. You can even choose which components to install, which update cycle you want to be on, and whether its silent or not.

      On multiple installs when you buy the standalone Office 2016 I completely agree, its an absolute nightmare. Buy the Office 365 version instead and you will have a much better experience as you get the software linked to an Office 365 user, with a lovely option to activate/deactivate based on workstation name.

      1. psychonaut

        Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

        autoconfigure is great if it works.

        if you have say a customer that has a vitrual machine sat on a vps which hosts his site and domain and the guy who set it up has disappeared, and the customer is trying to use your hosted exchange, it can be a pain in the arse. (although doable, i know)

        i just dont see the logic in removing the manual config option. it makes no sense. use this server with these parameters. just do what i am telling you. dont go off and tell me that it doesnt work,. it will work if you use these parameters you bastard thing. and it will take me about 2 minutes instead of lots of dicking around.

        the problem with using 365 - if your customer starts with one single license, or if they dont want to rent it, they want to buy it.

        i'll look into the click to run deployment, i didnt know about that, so thanks!

      2. Gis Bun

        Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

        If I'm not mistaken, the portal version gets continuously updated.

        If you have a share, after installing [and depending on how old] you may need to download a few hundred MB or more to update after. Early on, there was 1.2GB to download of Office 2013 updates for just a month.

    3. Timmy B Silver badge

      Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

      Some of that is rubbish - I don't have time to read it all but in another tab in this browser I have my 365 information open and it clearly shows the names of the PCs that I have it installed on.

      No idea what you're ranting on about.

      1. psychonaut

        Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

        timmy - thats 365. im talking about 2013 / 2016. most of my customers want to buy a license per pc not rent it.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. TheVogon Silver badge

          Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

          "most of my customers want to buy a license per pc not rent it."

          Most enterprise and corporate customers (which is where the big money is) would much rather rent software.

          1. psychonaut

            Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

            for sure. but my customers arent them. its about as relevant as that giraffe over there.

            1. hplasm Silver badge
              Coat

              Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

              " its about as relevant as that giraffe over there."

              That's no giraffe...it's a pie chart.

            2. TheVogon Silver badge

              Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

              "for sure. but my customers arent them. "

              So they can still buy Office 2016 Home and Business as a retail product. About £170 a go.

              1. psychonaut

                Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

                yeees. my point exactly. try managing it....see posts above.

                EDIT - or possibly below.

      2. tony72

        Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

        There are three Office versions mention in that title. I can't speak for Office 365, I don't use it, but for 2013 and 2016 installed online using a medialess pack, the Microsoft account shows date, version, purchase type (I assume, it shows "prepaid card" on all mine), and cost (I assume, it shows £0.00 on all mine, presumably if you bought from Microsoft directly rather than a retailer, it would show what you paid). It does not show what PCs the purchases were installed/activated on as far as I can see. Not an issue for me, but the OP's not lying.

        1. psychonaut

          Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

          no , im not lying!

          A man and his pet giraffe walk into a bar and start drinking. As the night goes on, they get drunk, and the giraffe finally passes out. The man decides to go home.

          As he's leaving, the man is approached by the barkeeper who says, "Hey, you're not gonna leave that lyin' here, are ya?"

          "Hmph," says the man. "That's not a lion -- it's a giraffe."

          1. psychonaut

            Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

            1 thumb down? alright is was a bad joke but blimey, a downvote? you should hear the one about the lobster who went into a bar

            1. Boris J's Quiff

              Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

              Go on then, tell us....but make it snappy

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

      So basically it is

      1) A dogs breakfast

      followed by

      2) MS couldn't organise a piss up in a Brewery even if Lookout Calendar worked.

      Only if you have been to the Microsoft school of industrial magic can you get it even 50% working.

      Oh, and Lookout/365 (windows 7) keeps throwing .Net V4.0 errors. Apparently this can be fixed by installing one of those patches that sends everything you do back to MS Central.

      Oh and don't forget to get some extra CALS just in case. You never know when FAST will come calling.

    5. Tezfair
      Happy

      Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

      I install a shed load of single Office 201x and I do is make a one-time-use outlook account which i then write onto the card along with the password. It adds maybe 10 minutes to the installation, and granted, it doesn't scale well, but it's worked for me in the past.

      1. psychonaut

        Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

        agreed - this is the only way. but its too late for the first few times it happened when i put them all in the same account, just for ease of management. stupid me thinking there would be a way tell which one was which

    6. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

      Re: 2013 / 2016 / 365 for small businesses

      @psychonaut - what you wrote is EXACTLY my feelings on the matter. I even had to check if I hadn't written your comment!

      Having to suffer Microsoft's rather bad software is total friction the whole time. Nothing they do works first time, properly. Like the other day when we couldn't install an Office 2016 using their Edge "browser". It just didn't work. We had to use Chrome. How crappy is that? Like everything Psychonaut wrote above. Why? This company surely has the resources to make this work. Why can't I use the Outlook 2013 download from our exchange host on a machine with an Office 2013 trial on it? Why doesn't IMAP work properly in Outlook?

      If more people moved over to Google Drive/Docs the world would be a simpler place!

  7. chivo243 Silver badge

    27 Office floppies?!

    Never lived in that hell, but even two or 3 CDs with various components, installations were a PITA... No, we don't need infopath, but we need mulit-language packs etc... Run all from my computer... installed on first use...

  8. Dan Wilkie

    I don't get this at all. I've been on O365 Small Business for a smidge over a year, 3 seats, and been through several different users and machines in that time.

    Lync installed with office, so I didn't run into that issue, it was just there.

    As for the not knowing which machines are using which licenses, if you go to My Account | Installation Status it will tell you which machines have it installed, with the OS and machine name too.

    What I will agree with is how complicated the licensing is, especially if you go with a third party (I wanted Project, but my third party doesn't offer it as an option and I can't get it added to the subscription by MS either...)

    1. psychonaut

      this is if you buy 2013 / 2016, not 365 - sorry, i didnt make that clear

      1. Timmy B Silver badge

        Got you. Not hat experience of managing them. 365 is really easy, though.

        1. psychonaut

          no worries, my fault, i did put 365 in the title of my post - i havent gone down that route cos when i say to customers yes you can pay ms this much per year, or, buy this once and it will last probably 5 years plus, (they can pry 2010 out of my cold dead hands...etc etc) they say....but if i rent it i could have bought it outright for the same cost of the first 18 months or so.

          so i quietly say, hating myself, but hey, you get to "upgrade" to the new versions when they come out.

          they dont want new versions. they dont want change. they want things to work the way they worked yesterday so they can get on and earn some money with what they do, and for the button they know to push when they do x to be in the same place.

          no brainer for them really.

          so yes, it probably is a deliberate decision by ms to make it as hard as possible to manage non 365 stuff. as noted above (and the conclusion i came to before i found discount 2010 software) you can make a seperate email account for ea\ch install (which is what i do now if the customer really wants it)

          theres absolutely no forgiveness for the no manual config of exchange accounts in outlook 2016 though

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Perfectly clear

        It was perfectly clear to me......

        I love the "Got problems with Office 201x ? Use 365" answers. So, so, so wrong.

        1. Dan Wilkie

          Re: Perfectly clear

          Got it,now I understand! I've only installed one standalone copy of 2015, as besides myself I've yet to find anyone who's moved past 2013, which was easy! Installing 2015 on the other hand was a PITA.

          So I feel your pain. I'm a big fan of 365 if you're using it as a total solution (bunging your exchange/onedrive etc in with it too). If you're not though, there's no point as you're just making your life difficult.

          1. psychonaut

            Re: Perfectly clear

            cheers!

            as for the "one big solution" thing...im not a fan of the big boys, one of the last people i would trust to run an exchange server with my data on it would be microsoft...well, ok, maybe BT via microsoft....

            who do you call when it goes titsup??

            i use a local hosting company (host100) - they are always on hand immediately if there are any issues, or you need something non standard doing.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    At least they play it fair.

    Of course; Microsoft really wants you to buy into their annual subscription so that you can use Office both offline an online and it's soo easy (marketing talk no doubt). And to that end they'll even go as far as to place the offline purchases (hardcopies?) of Office at the back of the (sometimes electronic) shelves and focus their attention on 365. Because that means you'll be paying them a small fee every month.

    And although that small fee sounds nice: many smaller things combined can make one bigger thing. That is the whole gameplan. Heck, you see this business model all over the place: even Visual Studio now favors their subscription model over the "hard copy". Don't believe me? Check out the 2015 product editions overview. I want professional, but I don't want a subscription. Now what? (trust me: it is doable, but simply more burried away).

    But I still think they're playing it fair. First the case of Visual Studio: did you see that first link? "Visual Studio Community" => Free (quote: "Visual Studio Community is free for individual developers, open source projects, academic research, training, education, and small professional teams."). Just a comment: hopefully you, dear reader, are smart enough to realize that "open source" does not equate to "free software" per definition. Just saying. And on top of that: I think there are dozens of people who ignore the Community edition because "It's free so probably not as good as professional". Bzzzt.

    Enough offtopicness: back to Office. Even here do you see the fairness of the business model. Because if you get the 'offline product' (which I'd refer to as a normal Office installation) then you still get access to the online counterparts if you want. I am running Office 2010 (waaay outdated, right?) and I can still upload Word documents onto OneDrive, give certain people access to said documents and we can even group-edit. Not only am I using an ancient Office version, I'm not even using 365!

    And the same applies to the current Office software. Some of my friends do enjoy the modern interface better and yeah... No worries.

    So although I do agree that Microsoft is a big vague about some things I still think they're playing a fair game.

  10. Warm Braw Silver badge

    I still use Office 2000

    It works (as well as any version of Office), it doesn't nag about licensing if I move it to a new PC and I don't have to pay it rent.

    While it might well be an advantage to businesses to have a subscription model for their IT services (assuming that the benefit of being able to plan expenditure isn't undermined by continual creative changes to pricing structures), I really can't see how this is going to help the personal and SOHO user. Fine if you're earning a reasonable income and you're getting real value from your subscription. But if you're retired or have an unpredictable income, being able to rely on the availability of software you purchased when you had the money to do it is important.

    It's all part of a trend towards a centralisation of capital - if you rent your books and movies rather than buy them, rent your software and, of course, increasingly, rent your home you simply become the modern equivalent of a serf.

    1. psychonaut

      Re: I still use Office 2000

      yes, its been good value Office 2000....ive still got my installer disk somewhere. its ok as long as you dont want to use outlook i think. anything prior to outlook 2003 has hideous issues on 7 or later.

      although maybe you are running windows 2000....

      1. Sandtitz Silver badge

        Re: I still use Office 2000

        "anything prior to outlook 2003 has hideous issues on 7 or later."

        Outlook prior to 2003 had a really nasty 2GB PST file size limit, and after you reached the limit Outlook would happily let the file grow and corrupt it at the same time. The old PST file also didn't display messages with Unicode contenty properly or at all. (little hazy after all these years)

        The reason why older Outlooks don't play nice is because they're the only Office components that integrate with the OS, as a MAPI client and it's also using the Windows Credential manager for saving email account passwords and the like. I think the latter one is a problem, I remember not being able to save passwords with OL2000 under Win7.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Re: I still use Office 2000

      I still use Office XP (2002) on Windows 7. Oh Microsoft touts that a subscription is "Cheaper" than buying the product, but that is if you buy every new version that comes down the pike. If I had been on a subscription plan (if one had existed then) I would have paid hundreds/thousands(?) more over the course of 13/14 years than just buying a product once, using it, and sticking with it. Microsoft wants to turn us all into "revenue streams", i.e. serfs and slaves to the monthly "subscription". It's only a matter of time, maybe by 2020, that Windows will too be a subscription service. Any denial of such I believe is but FUD made out of ignorance and misguided trust placed in Microsoft.

  11. J J Carter Silver badge
    Linux

    Be like Bill!

    Just install Linux Office and Libre Mint. Simples!

    1. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Be like Bill!

      > Just install Linux Office and Libre Mint. Simples!

      Another penny into you trolling account. Soon you'll be a trollionaire.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Be like Bill!

      "Just install Linux Office and Libre Mint."

      Yes - i can see that conversation with my users now: You want Libre Office?

      No - I need an office version that actually works.

      What do you mean?

      Well does it run my Macros?

      Well, er, no.

      Does it run my Addins?

      Well, er, no.

      Does it have equivalents to Outlook, OneNote, Lync, Project and Visio?

      Well, er, no.

      Does it integrate with SharePoint?

      Well, er, no.

      Does it support Digital Rights Management for all those secure documents?

      Well, er, no.

      So it's utterly useless for me then.

      Well it 's OK for really basic users.

      They already have Wordpad and Calculator.

      1. kryptylomese

        Re: Be like Bill!

        Does it crash - no

        Is it free yes!

        Am I going to keep shouting at my computer - no!

        Most users barely use the MS Office features that you say are vital.

        Linux is brilliant and it works - the world is changing so get over it

        1. psychonaut

          Re: Be like Bill!

          jesus. here we go.

          is it free - yes! all software should be free! it my human right! fuck off.

          most users who look at emails and browse - yes.

          anybody who does stuff, errr....no

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Be like Bill!

          "Does it crash - no"

          You obviously havn't looked at the support forums. Or used it.

          "Is it free yes!"

          If your time has no value.

          "Linux is brilliant and it works"

          Yes - I'm sure those whose Linux based phones were rooted and / or wiped by an SMS this week are queuing up to agree with you...

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And there's one reason to be wary ...

    > Microsoft has retired this plan

    That's it. It doesn't matter what you do, if on a subscription then the vendor (MS in this case) can force you to do something you don't want to. Happy with that version of ${package} ? Tough, because you are upgrading.

    Combine rental with closed proprietary file formats (which MS office formats still are in practical terms) and you've got the recipe for locked in income (on the part of the vendor).

    At work we use O365, and for work email I use Outlook - it's the most frustrating pile of smelly poo I have the misfortune to use. The boss asked me to try out the new version - well to start with it doesn't run on my Mac which is still stuck on OS X 10.8 thanks to the need to keep some things going in the fact of Apple unceremoniously removing important features. Fired up a virtual machine to test it - first issue is that it's all or nothing. Since I have my own licensed older version of Office, there's no flippin way I am installing anything other than the Outlook. I don't want to be in a position where if I leave this job, or the company changes it's mind, I can't access my own documents !

    EDIT: Oh yes, it's a really crap advert for software rental. If I try and open Outlook when not connected to the internet - it won't. No grace period, just demands to be licensed before it'll open. Well stuff that, being locked out of your stuff if you can't get online right then and there.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I am peripherally involved in an office365 rollout, it has been nothing but a pain in the posterior..

    The main issue is internet access, as the office components are not proxy capable they need direct internet access. This means allowing traffic through the firewalls that has previously be prohibited. Simple you would think, just allow access to the office365 site. But Microsoft in their infinite wisdom scatter different components onto different sites, and change them on a whim... The head count to maintain the firewall policies has not been budgeted into the cost savings... The been counters will not be happy..

    1. psychonaut

      "I am peripherally involved "

      do you have a USB socket implanted?

      ;)

    2. johnck

      That's an easy fix for the bean counters, just get rid of the firewall, the whole security thing is just an expense to them to be minimised as much as possible

    3. Boris J's Quiff

      That's not the case. All the bits and bobs I've encountered are proxy aware. Whether you'd want to proxy it, especially in the case of any voip traffic, is another matter. I'd agree though, the ridiculous number or urls and IPs makes a proxy almost essential despite it being the worst option for performance.

  14. J J Carter Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Let's look at the facts

    So the churnalist's nan, err...I mean small business client, didn't actually license web-apps. The licensed Office 2013/2016 for local install and some cloud services for email, storage and collaboration. Doesn't seem unreasonable they needed to uninstall legacy apps then upgrade.

    An online only E1 subscription is £5/month without the fully installed Office applications.

    But let's not stop hating on MSFT, eh?

    1. psychonaut

      Re: Let's look at the facts

      online word. why?

      i dont hate ms, i make my living from them. i dont like them recently at all, but lets not defend this shit, its awful.

  15. J J Carter Silver badge

    The business case was nodded-though.

    Yes, I recall our Office 365 business case just outlined why we could say fuckity-bye to the Exchange server admins and their 'on call' allowances, no more 'DR test' weekends and associated hefty O/T bill and avoiding big capex to renew h/w so improving ROCE in the annual report. What's not to like?

    1. psychonaut

      Re: The business case was nodded-though.

      yeah thats right JJ <engage beancounter mode as im sure you have>

      so when it all goes titsup, ring ring....you'll get a 15 year old indian called johnny to help with your problems who doesnt know what exchange is, can barely pronounce it, likes to say "i thought id reach out to you and do the necessary", spend 5 minutes saying how sorry he is for keeping you on hold for 2 minutes, despite your protestations that well, it wasnt great, but its ok, can he please shut the fuck up apologising because its taking longer for him to apologise thatn it does to actually be on hold and do something or find someone somewhere, possibly in another office/company/office block / galaxy that can do something, cant access it and wouldnt know what to do with it even if he had the access.

      (im not saying i can run exchange, i let a local company do it, but i have done my due diligence on them and im fine with it, theyve come through golden when tested in anger).

      ahh, cost savings. IT is just a cost. it doesnt do anything useful like run your business or anything.

      </disengage beancountermode>

      EDIT - the hiring of under 16 year olds is probably not legal in your country but may be in theirs. we assume no reponsibility for anyone taking this as anything other than taking the piss, please dont sue us or our friends, etc etc forthwith alicantra globus mundi. boomshanka, neil.

    2. MyffyW Silver badge

      Re: The business case was nodded-though.

      @J_J_Carter what's not to like? I contributed to a business case like that, only for Microsoft to turn round and point to "responsibilities that still lie with the customer" or some such weasel words, as soon as the ink was dry.

      I like the vision, but MS are to cloud office what Count TotalAndUtterKnobendFartyBreathski is to Russian social democracy.

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: The business case was nodded-though.

        Hi JJ how's your powershell skills?

        No good? Better hope something tricky doesn't go wrong then, because you will find that Office 365 is not that friendly if you need to sort something tricky out on it, in fact its proabbly less user friendly than an old install of exchange or server with lots of clicky buttons you could work through and sort/figure something out.

        Whats your TCO on losing all your data?

        Have fun.

        1. MyffyW Silver badge

          Re: The business case was nodded-though.

          On the plus side, JJ, you have added the phrase "fuckity-bye" to my vocab book

  16. Kev99

    Keep in mind that a cloud is just a bunch of holes held together by fog.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Doesn't work like this for me... I recently went from a Business Premium to E5 plan to trial some features.. Went back a month later and and both occurrence Office detected features needed to be removed or added and did some automatically... So sounds like another reg fictional character... "my friend did x".

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I think what we have here is MS trying to accommodate everyone with on-prem vs pure cloud. It is probably much like their labyrinth licensing structures... I'm sure there was some group of people asking for every structure for some reason at some time, but now it is overly complex. Eventually you just have to be like Apple and tell people they don't know what they want so you're going to give them what they should be asking for.

  19. Jagged
    Joke

    I would assume the removal of Access would be seen as a positive side effect by most IT Depts ;)

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