back to article Silent Nork satellite tumbling in orbit

North Korean "Earth observation" satellite Kwangmyongsong-4 is "tumbling in orbit", according to US officials, suggesting a second failure by Pyongyang to get a functioning satellite aloft. Kwangmyongsong-4 launched on Saturday, to widespread international condemnation. The satellite has remained silent - as did its …

  1. 2460 Something

    If they could, would they? Surely they must know they would be obliterated out of existence if they started throwing nukes about. I'm not sure even China would be happy with them having that capability.

    1. BebopWeBop Silver badge
      Mushroom

      I am sure China would not, but when have the leaders acted in the best interests of the people or country or even sanity in the last 25 years (to pick an arbitrary but reasonable timescale)

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      I think we may see any future launches taken down, possibly even by the Chinese. But they are stuck between a rock and a hard place: crackdown on Kim Jong Eun and the country might collapse, leading either to war with South Korea and America or straight to US troops on the border. Of course, if they do nothing then it's increasingly likely that South Korea or Japan will take a pop shot at any future launch leading to war…

      The best thing might be to pursue some kind of rapprochement with South Korea leading either to full unification, with a huge demilitarised zone, or a Hong Kong: one country, to systems solution. Strategically Korea isn't that important to China any more: it's far more concerned with the nine-dash line in the South China Sea.

      1. ukgnome

        That's the thing about nukes - if you have them then you might as well use them. Now I think we all agree that would be a dick move, but at least they didn't have this cash resource doing nothing. Nukes are expensive ornaments. Upon detecting the North Korean nuke the bigger dick move would be to retaliate. As retaliation means everyone is fucked.

        1. Martin Summers Silver badge

          "That's the thing about nukes - if you have them then you might as well use them."

          Rather glad you're not in charge of the big red button then!

          1. ukgnome

            That's my point - if you have them and you don't use them then they are of no use. Better to get rid and save a truck load of cash.

            1. x 7

              best way to get rid of your nukes is to use them on someone you don't like

            2. Scorchio!!
              FAIL

              "[...]if you have them and you don't use them then they are of no use. Better to get rid and save a truck load of cash."

              Ah, the Jeremy Corbyn school of reasoning. The point about them is that they have been there, ever since it was necessary to bring the nastiest war in history to an end. [1] It was inevitable that others would appear, Soviet spying or not. This being the case unilateral disarmament is about as wise as letting the school bully kick you in the balls.

              They will not go away, but it makes sense to prevent proliferation (thank you AQ Kahn for your silliness) and thus to reduce the odds of war. That they have not been used indicates something is working; to (for example) argue that they did not prevent the WTC catastrophe is non sequitur reasoning, inasmuch that they were not intended to do this; for decades after the war they prevented the two superpowers from waging open war. With the rightful decay and collapse of one of them, the USSR, the problem did not go away because the Russians, now led by an increasingly bold kleptocrat, still have them, as do the Chinese and so on.

              Preventing proliferation is the key, not disarmament. Else we will be at the mercy of someone with a bigger dick, to use your childish language.

              [1] It should be noted that firebombing caused more deaths in WWII Japan, not atomic bombs. The latter merely made the point very loudly and saved many, many allied lives, in a war which cost well over 55 million lives, some say 61 million.

    3. Vic

      Surely they must know they would be obliterated out of existence if they started throwing nukes about

      The North Korean playbook hasn't changed in decades. This is entirely an internal control thing.

      1. NK waves a weapon about - doesn't matter if it's functional or not

      2. The US obligingly steams in making a fuss about how much they're going to punish any military action

      3. NK leadership shows its population how they're being threatened by the US, and it's only the Kim and his cronies protecting them from the enemy

      Any real conflict is not in NK's interest - but being regularly threatened by the US is essential to their power structure. And so we get the same pantomime on a regular basis...

      Vic.

  2. Ole Juul

    No telemetry

    I'm surprised they didn't want to transmit even the most rudimentary data. At a basic level this is really cheap to implement nowadays. They could even have been sending fake data just to make it at least look like it had some more capability. In any case, no data at all makes me think that they don't actually have any plans to develop this much further.

    1. Bob H

      Re: No telemetry

      I am confused by the qualification that it is silent, how are people so sure that it isn't transmitting anything? Is it just because it isn't transmitting on Ku-Band, C-Band, L-Band or UHF? Have people checked the entire EM spectrum and found nothing? I would expect the NSA/GCHQ to have done that but it isn't easy if they aren't using standard mechanisms. It could even be using some exotic UWB communications are are very hard to spot and are easily mistaken for noise.

      1. ZanzibarRastapopulous

        Re: No telemetry

        > It could even be using some exotic UWB communications...

        It's North Korea, not South Korea.

      2. Def Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: No telemetry

        Not transmitting - yet. Just tumbling around in space, waiting for orders.

        If I were a crackpot dictator with a questionably retro hair style of an insignificant little nation everyone despised, I'd launch dozens of such 'failures' and then activate them all together one day.

        1. Rol Silver badge

          Re: No telemetry

          They could be debris bombs. Mr haircut probably watched the film Gravity and had an "original" idea.

        2. cray74

          Re: No telemetry

          Not transmitting - yet. Just tumbling around in space, waiting for orders.

          Radar operator: No. Log Com Bird Twelve says its metalurg recon analysis is a standard alloy, not stealthy, not carbon-composite. (pause) It does have an odd shape, sir.

          Commander Gilmour: What are you saying, son?

          Radar operator: It appears to be in the shape of Bob's Big Boy, sir.

        3. Fungus Bob Silver badge
          WTF?

          Re: a questionably retro hair style of an insignificant little nation

          Nauru has a hairdo?

      3. cray74

        Re: No telemetry

        I am confused by the qualification that it is silent, how are people so sure that it isn't transmitting anything? ... I would expect the NSA/GCHQ to have done that but it isn't easy if they aren't using standard mechanisms. It could even be using some exotic UWB communications are are very hard to spot and are easily mistaken for noise.

        Modern signal intelligence (and measurement and signature intelligence) doesn't just crack and decrypt conversations, it also performs traffic analysis: watching quantities, locations, frequencies, etc.. Having an indecipherable, wide band, frequency hopping "radio noise" signal moving at the same altitude, speed, and location of a tumbling satellite is useful information by itself. At a minimum, you learn, "Hey, the North Koreans can put an exotic UWB communications system satellites, they're coming up in the world."

      4. Anonymous Blowhard

        Re: No telemetry

        UWB is also a short range technology, fine for IOT type applications but not for satellite communications.

        Satellite communications technology is well understood by countries that have had active space programs for the last fifty years, so it's unlikely that North Korea has leapfrogged everyone within a couple of launches.

        Dead parrot icon?

      5. Peter Simpson 1
        Black Helicopters

        Re: No telemetry

        Knowing the US, they've probably LOOKED at it, and noticed that it looks more like a refrigerator than a satellite. And that it has no antennas.

      6. Bluto Nash

        Re: No telemetry

        Check all the normal CB channels...

        ("CB" for those not in the know or not children of the 70's and 80's, was "Citizen's Band" mobile radio in the USA for consumers to use to talk to each other, bother commercial truckers and generally act like twats whilst driving. Kind of like old skool cell phones)

    2. DropBear Silver badge

      Re: No telemetry

      "I'm surprised they didn't want to transmit even the most rudimentary data."

      Unless the conclusion we've drawn ("we're not in it for satellite launches") was the exact message they specifically wanted to send.

      1. Ole Juul

        Re: No telemetry

        "Unless the conclusion we've drawn ("we're not in it for satellite launches") was the exact message they specifically wanted to send."

        Whatever they're into, collecting data in order to learn and improve is prudent. To not do that is a foolish way to develop something. If they're advanced enough to send a rocket into space they will know that.

    3. Bill Fresher

      Re: No telemetry

      The piece of string connecting the satellite to a paper cup back on earth must have snapped on launch.

      1. Scorchio!!

        Re: No telemetry

        "The piece of string connecting the satellite to a paper cup back on earth must have snapped on launch."

        The thong wemaith the thame. ;-)

  3. CAPS LOCK Silver badge

    " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

    Itself based on a version of the V2 engine.

    1. wolfetone Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

      "Itself based on a version of the V2 engine."

      Which itself was based on a version of the V1 engine.

      1. tentimes

        Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

        Which itself was based on a version of the beta engine!

      2. Steve Todd

        Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

        Either a bad joke or you don't know your history. The V1 was powered by an Argus Tube pulse jet, nothing at all like the V2 rocket engine.

        1. wolfetone Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

          "Either a bad joke or you don't know your history."

          Wasn't the coat icon a clue?

          1. x 7

            Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

            "Wasn't the coat icon a clue?"

            NO

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

          "Either a bad joke or you don't know your history."

          The coat icon suggests the former.

      3. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

        Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

        "Which itself was based on a version of the V1 engine"

        Shame you should say that! V2 is a complete rewrite - modern technologies, enhanced user experience, advanced communication capabilities, better socialization features, compliant with every modern buzzword out there. You name it & we've got it.

        1. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

          > V2 is a complete rewrite - modern technologies, ...

          But the user experience really sucked.

          1. BebopWeBop Silver badge

            Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

            But the user experience really sucked.

            It depends whether you were the supplier or the client I suspect.

            1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

              Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

              "It depends whether you were the supplier or the client I suspect."

              In the case of the V2 you'll maybe want to rethink that - it's probably the one weapon in history that killed less people when deployed than people who were killed while building it. Sources vary, conservative estimates suggest a ratio of 5,000 / 20,000 lives.

              1. MyffyW Silver badge

                Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

                The economics of the V2 were such that if they'd been deployed sooner and in greater numbers they would have bankrupted Germany long before winning the war for them.

                However, the comparatively simpler V1 achieved more damage for their money than either conventional bombing planes or the smarter V2.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              @BebopWeBop Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

              "It depends whether you were the supplier or the client I suspect."

              As is always the case, if you aren't paying for it, you're the product. Targeted ads or targeted missiles, the end result is broadly similar: a lot of people very briefly get mad.

              Strangely enough that puts things in weird sort of perspective. Make ads, not war!

          2. John Hughes

            Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

            When a meeting of the British interplanetary society was interrupted by the explosion of a V2 they cheered, realising that they had just heard the beginning of the space age.

            http://www.tor.com/2009/06/01/francis-spuffords-backroom-boys-the-secret-return-of-the-british-boffin/

            1. DanceMan
              Thumb Up

              Re: @ John Hughes

              Thanks for the link to the book review. Sounds fascinating.

            2. Hey Nonny Nonny Mouse

              Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

              Thank you, I've just ordered an amazingly cheap hardback dead tree copy of that to read.

          3. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

            Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

            "But the user experience really sucked."

            That's what 'enhanced experience' usually means, yes. Sucks more with every version.

          4. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

            Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

            But the user experience really sucked.

            To improve user experience with our product, please adjust your system Regional Settings location, format and locale to German (Germany)

      4. x 7

        Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

        "Which itself was based on a version of the V1 engine."

        total bollox

        V1 was an airbreathing jet.

        V2 was a rocket

    2. cray74

      Re: " Soviet SS-1 "Scud" powerplants"

      Itself based on a version of the V2 engine.

      I'm not sure about that. The V2 used liquid oxygen and ethanol. The S2.253 engine of the R-11 Zemlya (first production Scud) burned different propellants, kerosene and nitric acid, which is a non-trivial switch owing to different cooling and coking behaviors. Further, the injectors are completely different. The S2.253 used a common injection manifold across the head of the combustion chamber, while the V2's engine used ~18 different separate burners/injectors on the head. Finally, the V2's engine used a separate hydrogen peroxide-driven turbopump (essentially a steam turbine), while the S2.253 burned the main propellants in a gas turbine.

      I mean, the heritage could be there, but major features of rocket engines (propellants, cooling method, injectors, pumping technique) differ between the S2.253 and V2.

      It's often said Germans were a huge source of knowledge for both US and USSR rocket programs, which is true, but it's worth noting the engineers in both nations immediately tossed out a lot of German design features. I've heard the first US engineers to lay eyes on the V-2 engines were underwhelmed at the crudity of its injector set up. That didn't find its way into any American rocket engine design I'm familiar with. The V2 liquid cooling jacket was also crude and quickly replaced by tubular or channel wall cooling designs, depending on the nation.

  4. Peter Simpson 1
    Mushroom

    Once the rockets go up,

    Who cares where they come down?

    That's not my department,

    says Wehrner von Braun.

    -- Tom Lehrer

    1. John Mangan

      Always an upvote available . .

      for a Tom Lehrer reference.

    2. MyffyW Silver badge
      Linux

      There was a young fellow named Hector,

      Who was fond of a launcher-erector.

      But the squishes and pops

      Of acute pressure drops

      Wrecked Hector's hydraulic connector.

      - Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

      1. MyffyW Silver badge
        Coat

        There was a technician named Pope

        Who plugged in to an ocilloScope

        The cyclical trace

        Of their carnal embrace

        Had a damn nearly infinite slope

        (I'm getting my coat before I mention a technician named Yuri.)

  5. Steve Knox

    Kwangmyongsong

    But the tune ends too soon for us all...

    1. JimmyPage Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Kwangmyongsong

      +1 for the Jethro Tull reference (so soon after Tom Lehrer too) ...

  6. smartypants

    Seems like a lot of effort to me

    I feel sorry for the North Koreans. In Europe - similarly partititioned by the allied powers at the end of WW2 - they've long since shaken off the suffocating effects of the state controlling the means of production. North Korea's post war communist allies have also deserted this broken model.

    North Koreans find themselves in the dark crack (literally, if you search for 'North Korea at night') between two flavours of capitalism - the new communist type to the north, and the old-fashioned original type to the south.

    And if it weren't bad enough that much of the country is freezing and starving from time to time (occasionally to death, as happened to hundreds of thousands in the 1990s), the only entertainment is a chubby nutter shown to be attacked with love on a daily basis. I bet that stops being funny after a while though.

    1. BurnT'offering

      Re: the only entertainment is a chubby nutter

      And Laibach

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Seems like a lot of effort to me

      >the only entertainment is a chubby nutter shown to be attacked with love on a daily basis

      Royston Vasey is the leader of N Korea?

      They really kept that one out of the papers

  7. Rustident Spaceniak
    Joke

    They passed over the Levi stadium?

    It's clear - the launch was one hour late due to a mix-up in the timezones! That dear short ingenious leader just wanted his own independent aerial view of the final Superbowl moments. Give the man a break, those constant supervillain comparisons must be getting on his nerves.

    More seriously, who'd ever want a nuke to communicate? Who with?

    1. LDS Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: They passed over the Levi stadium?

      Oh well, the Broncos defense would have stop that as well....

    2. GrumpenKraut Silver badge

      Re: They passed over the Levi stadium?

      > More seriously, who'd ever want a nuke to communicate? Who with?

      Mother in law?

      1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: They passed over the Levi stadium?

        More seriously, who'd ever want a nuke to communicate? Who with?

        Or ex-wife. If your name is John Sheridan. Though the Norh Korean ones are a bit too small for that - need to add 600Mt or thereabouts.

      2. Scorchio!!

        Re: They passed over the Levi stadium?

        "> More seriously, who'd ever want a nuke to communicate? Who with?

        Mother in law?"

        Naw, she could be tied up against a pole and sent on her way with a mortar. (I'm sure Daesh have been learning from the dear leader.)

    3. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: They passed over the Levi stadium?

      "More seriously, who'd ever want a nuke to communicate? Who with?"

      Well, it does send a strong message with little room for any misinterpretations.

    4. PNGuinn
      Headmaster

      Re: They passed over the Levi stadium?

      WHOM with

      1. Vic

        Re: They passed over the Levi stadium?

        WHOM with

        With whom.

        I bet your aunt's got a parrot.

        Vic.

  8. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
    Childcatcher

    Chillingly, Kwangmyongsong-4 passed over Levi's Stadium in California on Sunday, just one hour after the end of Super Bowl 50.

    If that is "chilling" then I don't know what adjective suitably describes the numerous nukes the rest of the world has which could deliver us Armageddon at any instant.

    I suppose the demonisation is meant to keep our minds off the dangers elsewhere but "everyone's an evil bastard except the west" sure does wear thin at times. With all their sabre rattling over Russia, and seeming to be desperate for a conflict, I expect NATO will have plunged us deep into a world war before North Korea ever kicks one off.

    1. bharq
      Mushroom

      luckily, word wars are my favorites as they are usually the least bloody kind of wars.

      1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

        "Word wars" - Edited, but not quickly enough :-)

      2. 's water music Silver badge

        Word wars

        ... the least bloody kind...

        you've not played scrabble with my wife then

    2. Downside

      Aside from the concentration camps, deaths of innocents and human resources strategy based on Game Of Thrones, the norks are pantomime baddies.

      Nato sabre rattling? As opposed to Russia actual-rattling, Crimea black-ops takeover, shooting down passenger jets? They do have form on that, as Deutschland 83 reminded us this week.

      Funnily enough,I don't think anyone is really keen on going to war, even if your day job is tooling about in a tank, sub or plane.

      1. Jim 59

        @Downside Well said to your whole post. Although I dislike the description "pantomime baddy", which is often applied to Kim Jong-un these days. It reminds me of Idi Amin, former president of Uganda, who was sometimes described in similar terms. He even played up to the "evil teddy bear" image, some say, in order to distract from what he really was - a psychopathic, mass-murdering dictator.

        Amin, when he wasn't killing up to half a million people, awarded himself a doctorate of law as well as the Victoria Cross. There were even rumours he was a cannibal. Did he deliberately make his own evil cartoonish ? Who knows. Either way, Kim Jong-un seems like a photocopy.

    3. Mark 85 Silver badge

      This was, after all, the Huffington Post. They love sensationalism and hate everything that doesn't agree with their view of the world. I'm just surprised they didn't include something about killer-cops in the statement.

    4. Scorchio!!

      " I expect NATO will have plunged us deep into a world war before North Korea ever kicks one off."

      Give them time, FGS; NATO have had nuclear weapons for what, almost 70 years now, whilst the NORKs may not have fully acquired them yet. The latter started a massive conventional war, with China's help of course, after WWII. Have NATO started one yet, other than the clause 5 retaliation against the Talibs and their Al Qaeda guests?

  9. Chris G Silver badge

    You should not underestimate a piss poor crappy little dictatorship that can get enough out of its short resources to put a satellite into orbit.

    There must be a few ex soviet satellite nations with some usable nukes that might be for sale to a loony with a rocket. Or Pakistan, they are known to collaborate with others on things nuclear.

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Nope, they had to make sure all the nukes went back to Mother Russia in order to gain their independence. It's pretty clear the Ukraine or Georgia, to name but two, didn't keep any.

    2. John Hughes

      You should not underestimate a piss poor crappy little dictatorship that can get enough out of its short resources to put a satellite into orbit.

      After all, they've now launched more satellites than the UK (although Prosero worked better than this one).

  10. Richard Wharram

    Hans Brix? Oh no.

    Oh herro. Great to see you again Hans.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Bota

      Re: Hans Brix? Oh no.

      So ronery :(

  11. robin48gx
    Trollface

    jus step a lirrell to the left hans...

  12. Duffy Moon

    A Surrey village with a satellite?

    Nork? That's near Banstead isn't it? I knew it was a wealthy area, but didn't realise it had its own space programme.

  13. Marketing Hack Silver badge
    Go

    The satellite is not tumbling!

    It's just looking for a good Korean barbecue place.

  14. dervheid

    What goes up

    must come down.

    They may not have nuclear capability, but a sufficiently large, solid object (presuming re-entry survival) is going to dispense quite a chunk of kinetic energy...

    1. John Hughes

      Re: What goes up

      The same (or less) energy that was expended to shoot it up.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Isnt the more obvious answer that whatever was on it broke, during tge stress of Launch. Its not like their paragons of quality Engineering.

  16. PleebSmasher

    Is it in space?

    It's a successful launch.

  17. Florida1920
    Mushroom

    김치

    It's a kimchi bomb, and it gets more powerful with age. If you've ever had the good stuff, you know what I mean. The tumbling is only to make sure the ingredients are well mixed and fermented.

  18. Bota

    So sad

    It's so sad. They live in a society where everything they say is monitored, there really is no true democratic process, there are secret sites where people are tortured to death and they're led by a buffoon with a cult of personality. But enough about the US, North Korea at least has clean rivers, nice trains and free health care.

  19. MooJohn

    No data being transmitted?

    It just needs more time for the vacuum tubes to warm up. That always takes longer in the coldness of space!

  20. JaitcH
    Meh

    Even lumps of steel can cause damage - Big Time

    The description "tumbling in orbit" suggests it is out of control but until one knows what the real intent of the launch is most everything is just hot air - and American blood pressure rising.

    But if the DPRK's lump of steel could cause satellite owners a lot of money were it to collide with another satellite. Since the USA has so much expensive heavy metal flying around the heavens, they should prey they don't get hit.

    Imagine the DPRK's propaganda if they did score a hit - then they would say that's what they intended.

    1. hattivat

      Re: Even lumps of steel can cause damage - Big Time

      "Since the USA has so much expensive heavy metal flying around the heavens, they should prey they don't get hit."

      Any usable satellite must have RCS thrusters (essentially small engines) to maintain orientation and alitude. Considering how much space there is around Earth, how little that Best Korean "projectile" is, and how easy it is to track its orbit accurately, evading it using said RCS thrusters is trivial. And even if no evasion was ever attempted, the vastness of Earth and the space around it means that the chance of it ever hitting something valuable before its orbit decays is tiny, quite certainly under 1%.

      And to all the alarmists talking about it being a nuke or inteded to demonstrate the ability to place one in its stead - the payload capability of the rocket is estimated at under 150 kgs to LEO (low-Earth orbit). Even the US would have a hard time fitting something menacing in the 150 kgs mass limit when reentry shielding, comms equipment and some rudimentary manuevering ability (without which it would be useless as a weapon-waiting-in-orbit) are taken into account. Norks? No chance. For all we know their nukes are quite possibly as crude and immobile as the original Trinity device.

      There is really nothing alarming about this test if you know your spacey stuff - Sputnik remains kinda menacing even in hindsight because it was lifted by a rocket without any upper stage, meaning it had potential for much more. That ducttaped joke of a rocket that Norks use is already at the limit of what it can achieve, and well beyond the limits of what any sensible nation would attempt to achieve with a Scud knock-off.

  21. Borg.King
    Coat

    Satellite . .

    made by Electrolux?

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: Satellite . .

      Doubt it. Electrolux can make fridges that are able to "phone home" since the turn of the millennium:

      https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/complete-history-internet-connected-fridges-155539470.html

  22. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    Re: someone should take a close look

    Well, just in case someone eyeballs it after all, here's how to spot the difference between friendly and not-friendly satellites.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No threat at all. Nothing to see, move along. And in other news...

    Did you hear that the loony Norks put something into freaking ORBIT !!??!!

    Of the total ICBM problem space, that's a fairly large fraction.

  24. AIBailey Silver badge
    Angel

    So...

    North Korea have put something into orbit that:

    - weighs about half a tonne

    - is out of control

    - does nothing of any use

    Has anyone actually seen the supreme leader since the launch?

  25. MJI Silver badge

    Tumbling

    Have they gone from washing machines to tumble driers now?

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