back to article Can't upgrade, won't upgrade: Windows Mobile's user problem

Microsoft’s dream of a smooth transition to Windows 10 Mobile needs a reality check. Figures from AdDuplex, which samples devices actually in use, finds that much of today’s active Windows Phone user base won’t be able to make the update. A three-year-old device, the Lumia 520, is today the most popular Windows Phone in use, …

  1. djstardust

    As I've said before

    WM (or whatever it's called this week) has no strategy. It has never had a strategy and never will.

    I really don't know why anyone wastes their time with this.

    The only people I know with Windows handsets are either IT geeks or mugs that have been fleeced over in a mobile phone shop.

  2. Palpy

    As a 'compleat idoit' here...

    "For example, the older 'People' app is far richer and more useful than the Windows 10 Mobile version, offering a handy history of your phone, SMS and email interactions with someone, and aggregates their social media contact information."

    Does this make many anyone with more savvy than myself think, "OH thank goodness all this information can be carried on a portable device which knows my location, has a camera and microphone, is always connected and communicating, and is controlled by an loosely affiliated amalgam of software, hardware, and networking super-corporations! Surely they will safeguard my interests with all due diligence!"?

    Or is my tinfoil hat showing?

    *Caveat: owner of a seldom-used flip-phone.

  3. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Reality check ?

    Come now, Microsoft has left reality behind since last millennium. MS is in its own little world now, no overlap with reality any more. It has marketing people to deal with that ugly stuff.

  4. GeezaGaz

    So they've learnt nothing then...

    "It was Windows Phone’s smooth performance on budget hardware that finally gave the platform a toe hold on the market in 2013, as Nokia launched an impressive range of low cost models."

    Still its going to affect what 40-50 people worldwide who actually *have* a winpho.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Verily, the truth

    "For example, the older “People” app is far richer and more useful than the Windows 10 Mobile version, offering a handy history of your phone, SMS and email interactions with someone, and aggregates their social media contact information."

    Damn right, and it is better than the Windows 10 "desktop" incarnation which can't pull in data from such under-the-radar social systems as F-book and Twitterer.

  6. Anonymous Coward



    "I'm still expecting that big sellers like the 520 and 630/635 may be left on 8.1 Update 1 "

    Does anyone do any research these days?

    10 seconds of searching:

    Supported phones for Windows 10 Mobile Insider Preview

    HTC One (M8) for Windows

    LG Lancet

    Lumia 430

    Lumia 435

    Lumia 520

    Lumia 521

    Lumia 525

    Lumia 526

    Lumia 530

    Lumia 532

    Lumia 535

    Lumia 540

    Lumia 550

    Lumia 620

    Lumia 625

    Lumia 630

    Lumia 635

    Lumia 636

    Lumia 638

    Lumia 640

    Lumia 640 XL

    Lumia 720

    Lumia 730

    Lumia 735

    Lumia 810

    Lumia 820

    Lumia 822

    Lumia 830

    Lumia 920

    Lumia 925

    Lumia 928

    Lumia 930

    Lumia 950

    Lumia 950 XL

    Lumia 1020

    Lumia 1320

    Lumia 1520

    Lumia Icon

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: As I've said before

      Windows Phone is great. Although I agree with you Microsoft's mobile phone strategy has been a bloody shambles since about 2004. I assumed that things went wrong because all management resources were pulled in to try and unscrew-up Longhorn - which got them to the unloved (but actually not that terrible) Vista, and then the excellent Windows 7. Meanwhile their huge share in the smartphone/PDA field died, and the iPhone kicked everyone's collective arses.

      But they've just kept on flailing since then. It's almost as if someone is telling them they must do mobile, as its "the future", but they actually hate it.

      However Windows Mobile 8.1 is good. It's fast, I think I've only ever had one, maybe two, phone crashes - and I can't ever recall an app crashing on me. Whereas my iPad has an app crash on it every week, and probably crashes or needs a reboot every month. Not that I'm complaining - this is good performance, the work iPhone performed similarly to my iPad. I haven't regularly used a 'Droid since 2.2, which was a bit flaky, so it wouldn't be fair to comment.

      Anyway Windows Phone is good. It's a cheap, solid, stable phone. The People Hub (address book) is far superior to Apple's, or stock Android. You can get bigger text easily, so I can call without needing my reading glasses. The email client is good, and allows you to separate email accounts easily, something Apple is awful at. The navigation apps are great, mobile IE is now perfectly useable, it was pretty ropey on Win Mo 7.

      The app store is still pretty rubbish. It's still a mediocre mobile computer, compared to 'Droid or iPhone.

      Sadly MS keep doing the hard work under the hood. But then no-one ever gets round to the polish that would turn it from an OK system into a great one. Bribe a few more people to make apps. Get simple stuff right, like a built in torch and timer app. Leave the UI as it is, it's great, but spend some effort on making the live tiles thing actually work. Or ditch it, and just make the icons prettier. Keep them big though - phone screens are small, and they're often used in not ideal viewing conditions.

      Anyway, if MS screw up, I won't take the update. 8.1 is good enough for me, and at £140 I got a decent camera and decent phone in my Lumia 735. I'm aware it may not have a long term future, but for my needs now, it's the best phone. And the £450 saved over an iPhone can get me an iPad or 2 nice Android tablets.

      1. Flatpackhamster

        Re: As I've said before

        I agree. I had a Lumia 720 for 2 years, which sadly died a hideous death which was its own fault. It kept loading Cortana up so I had to beat it with an axe.

        I bought a 640XL for £160 which has a cracking camera and a lovely clear screen and since I showed it what I'd done to the 720 it's been as quiet as a mouse.

      2. ROC

        Re: As I've said before

        Good summary that captures much of my experience/thinking, and that is after I liked how my wife took to WP 8.1 on a 635 for her first smart phone to upgrade from feature phones. I decided then to switch from my latest Android (4.4), Asus PadFone X after one too many alerts for yet more security issues last spring. I got a 640 for USD 80, and liked it so much (Glance is great for quick time/message checks without resorting to an expensive hockey puck on my wrist to constantly bang into things), that I upgraded her 635 to a 640, and that was USD 70 at the time. I frequently see the 640 (AT&T "GoPhone" model, so locked to them for minimum 6 months I believe) on sale for 40-60, and even 30 once in a great while, such as Black Thursday. One helluava "budget" phone compared to what comparable Androids would cost me.

        I do miss some of the Android app choices, but nothing that has been a showstopper since I retired, and did not need corporate email access. Ironically, despite the fact they were using Exchange, they refused to apply a bug fix that would allow "secure" use/management of WP, so the corp standards were iPhone and Android with the Touchdown app. That was a certain UK-based drug giant - glad to be done with 'em since they killed their unicorn...

    2. Wolfclaw

      Re: Hmmm...

      As if Microsoft would ever use the edit button when the task of supporting older hardware becomes more hassle than it is worth market share !

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hmmm...

        Windows phone landfill in full swing. Nobody paid for their phones (windows phones are giveaways on £10 month contracts). Just get a new £10 month contract and get last years landfill windows phone failure.

    3. Kristian Walsh

      Re: Hmmm...

      Being on the insider list doesn't mean that the performance was good enough to get onto the release list.

      520 is supposed to be on the "second wave" of W10 Mobile updates, but that doesn't mean it'll get the full Windows 10 Mobile release. Insider user reports I read weren't positive about the low-feature devices: the big problem with updating the 520 isn't the running requirements of the OS, but rather getting enough free storage space on the device to store the OTA updater.

      On performance, W10 renders 8.1 app UI faster than 8.1 does, and unlike 8.1., the Windows 10 Store service recompiles the .Net CLI byte-code submitted by developers into native code for download onto the device. Both of these make apps run faster, and there are some API features introduced in 10 (particularly in allowing the use of static binding of control properties) which dramatically improve UI load times if you use them. On the other hand, the W10 OS is doing more in the background than 8.1 was, so overall it's a small performance hit.

      Memory is the killer on these devices, though - I've a 530 that I used for developing my recent app, and running on such a low-memory device really taught me to aggressively optimise my heap size.

      1. websey

        Re: Hmmm...

        I'm sorry @kristian I call imposster lol I am the only one that sings the praises of win phone and points out arguments

        In all serious conversation win 10 mobile has issues but still runs smoother than android but not quite iPhone levels of slickness but soon maybe

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Hmmm...

          You have been buying the wrong android devices then. All ours are butter smooth, even sub £100 ones like the moto g

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hmmm...

      haha wow, who would have thought Microshaft made that many of those stupid crappers...

      What were they trying to do?

      Make so many Lame-ia phones that people would think: "hey, look at the deluge, this must be some kind of established thing" - *scratch-head* - *buy-a-few-to-secure-the-car-when-parked-on-a-hill*

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Can't downgrade - Won't downgrade

    As a long time fanboy, and don't care who knows it, got to say that all those older Lumias out there should count their blessings. From what i have seen on a 950 (already returned) and on insider previews on my 640 and 930, WP10 is probably the most pointless software revision i have ever seen, it is broken not just in some of the peripheral functions but in most of the basic ones. It makes me wonder what MS employees running around the world with upgraded phones must be doing all day apart from compiling bug reports...having said all that i have seen and played with a new 650 (due out next week i think) and it is a cracking bit of kit, excellent build quality great feature set and reputedly a very budget price point, actually far more desirable design than the 950/950 XL for less than a quarter the price. It would be great if it could be downgraded to 8.1

  8. The Boojum

    "Certain features and experiences will require more advanced future hardware"

    Or what is effectively obsolete legacy hardware from other ecosystems.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Quite Frankly

    The utter cluster-fuck that is Windows 10 deserves every bit of dung being flung at it.

    It's forcefully stopped from encroaching on ANY thing i own, anything immediate family members own and all my mates gear (as i'm their tech support).

    Before the downvotes, check my post history, you'll see i have been one of MS biggest advocates (not shill!) but there is only so much i can take...

  10. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    History repeating itself?

    Why do I feel the smell of Windows of yesteryear in the air all over again?

  11. Field Commander A9

    Breaking News!

    New OS Version With More Functionalities Requires MORE Hardware Capabilities!

    1. Chemist

      Re: Can't downgrade - Won't downgrade

      "As a long time fanboy, and don't care who knows it........."

      So, every time we see your distinctive username we'll know you are a fanboy ???

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Quite Frankly

      Windows 10 is fine. Since I upgraded my work PC, everyone in the office has volunteered to move onto it, in our small office of non-techies. I was expecting everyone to want to stay on 7 - which is good, and they were happy with, and avoids people having to cope with change. I'd already upgraded the one person on 8, I'm not a sadist.

      But they wanted it, and are all happy. I've not read anything to suggest it's technically worse than 7, just that it involves change. My only problem so far is the illogical split between the Settings and Control Panel. But unlike in 8, there now seem to be links to take you to settings in the other place. So it's not that bad.

      I'm not an IT person, just the only technically competent one in our small company. We get whatever OS comes with a new PC when we need one, and outsource whatever I can't do.

      I can understand the lack of love for Windows 8. It was annoying. 8.1 fixed a lot of the worst stuff, and if you stuck Classic Shell or Start8 on it, you were mostly fine. But I don't see what's the problem with 10? Other than people being difficult. And objecting to the nagging download thing, but then MS are giving that away free.

      1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
        Black Helicopters

        Re: Quite Frankly

        It's the unstoppable telemetry in W10 that most of us object to...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Breaking News!

      Certain features and experiences will require more advanced future hardware

      If they took out all the spy ware and monitoring and automatic upgrades (not too bad on a phone rather than a PC)

      then W10 (mobile) would run on a fraction of the hardware that the "older" models have.

    4. Flywheel Silver badge

      Re: History repeating itself?

      Windows 95 Phone? Yeah! Bring it on!

  12. ColonelClaw

    It would be interesting to know what Microsoft were thinking in 2013. Did they say anything back then about future upgrade-ability? Or maybe they had other priorities? I'm not suggesting they did know that the phones wouldn't be upgradeable, but if that had been the case, that's extremely short-sighted.

    iOS9 is supported on a 4S, which launched at the end of 2011. Surely getting Win10 to run on a 3-year old WinPhone is a pretty low bar to set?

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Well, they can do it, but it might mean leaving features out. Although it's pretty shocking that they don't already know this! But then this is all Apple do. The older phones get the new OS, but with several bits cut out, either because the hardware isn't there, or because Apple want to keep it for the new shiny-shiny. Perhaps they were being very cheapskate in not giving 1GB of RAM on all the models, it wasn't going to add that much to the cost?

      But then Apple did exactly the same with the original iPad, where they gave the phones 1GB or RAM and the iPad 1 (launched 2 months before) only 512MB. Which meant that the iPad couldn't take the new version of iOS (iOS 4 if I remember right) for about 4 months after the phones got it, and then ran a bit slowly after that, and particularly the "upgrade" to iOS 5.

    2. J J Carter Silver badge

      >iOS9 is supported on a 4S<

      Partly supported, even features which don't need new h/w have been disabled at the request of APPL marketing dept.

    3. Tom 35 Silver badge

      Cheap phones

      A large number if not most of the winphones sold are "free" with contract low price phones. They were bought as a better option then an obsolete android (that will also never get updates) being sold off cheap.

      The people buying them don't expect upgrades, they are used to buying a new phone. The only way Microsoft will upgrade them is to sell them a new phone.

    4. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: It would be interesting to know what Microsoft were thinking in 2013.

      Well given MS's position in the phone market back then and the 'normal' consumer phone 18~24 month contract/upgrade/churn cycle, I suspect MS thought there would be little need for future upgrade-ability, particularly on "low end" models...

    5. Richard Plinston Silver badge

      > 2013. Did they say anything back then about future upgrade-ability?

      By 2013 they had completely dumped all Windows Mobile 6.x users with no upgrade path, not even for apps or even the development tools. They had also dumped all Windows Phone 7 as none would go to WP8. Fanboys (as the one above) claimed that 7.8 would (or did) give all WP8 features but all it gave was a few extra colours and a couple of new sizes for the UI tiles.

      I would be surprised if anyone expected upgrade-ability for a WP8 phone, but it seems that some will upgrade to 10 - probably whether the user wants to or not.

      None will get continuum, that requires dual GPUs or something and is only on 950s.

    6. GitMeMyShootinIrons

      "iOS9 is supported on a 4S, which launched at the end of 2011." As part of Apple's long running an-update-too-far policy to force users off older kit by grinding them to a halt. Having seen what iOS 7.1.2 did to my iPhone 4 and iOS 4.2 did to an iPhone 3G, well Apple aren't the best example to use.

      My fear is that Microsoft are getting pressurised into doing the same thing here - releasing Windows 10 for devices that don't suit it. A more sensible path would be to keep older, low-spec devices on the reliable 8.1 release and keep it maintained in parallel for, say 2-3 years. Who knows, may be an 8.2 release with some feature updates as they did with obsolete Windows Phone 7 when 8.0 came out. Certainly better than promising the Earth!

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      iOS9 is supported on a 4S, which launched at the end of 2011.

      Just to point out, Apple were selling the iPhone 4 (not S) alongside later models for quite a while after that.

      I bought one, which I still use now... because it works, and the apps on it still work. Can't be updated... but do I care? Not at all. It's a phone. It does phone things. Good enough.

  13. BobChip

    Microsoft "shortsighted"?

    No, I think not. At least, not according to M$ "thinking". Obsolete kit = upgrade cycle = more sales! Logical!! Brilliant!!! Promote that man!!!!!

    Unfortunately, I doubt that anyone outside of the big echo chamber will be swayed by this "logic". M$ seems to have succeeded only in completely divorcing itself from reality. Again.

  14. Franco Silver badge

    The worry for me is not Windows Phone performance (I haven't had ANY issues at all on a 3 year old 925 other than poor battery life on some builds), it's the fact that user experiences are varying so wildly even on the same hardware and build.

    AFAIK upgradeability was a goal for Windows Phone 8, after all the negative press for "Windows Phone 7 Series" being abandoned. Rumour was that all Lumias would get an upgrade though, albeit with reduced functionality on some of the lower end kit.

  15. MT Field


    It's like a fat bald 55-year old white businessman in a grey suit and baseball cap trying to get down with the hipster kids. Time to give it up, Daddio.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    History repeats itself again!

    "A cut-down experience on '10'..."

    Remember the days when Microsoft was transitioning from WP7 to WP8? At first, they were coy about the possibility of upgrading the OS on older devices. Then they hastily promised that no one would be left out on the 'Windows Phone experience' and every WP7 device would get upgraded too.

    The upgrade turned out to be WP 7.8, a watered down experience, to put it kindly. OEMs got burnt, eager fans got burnt, said 'never again' and switched to Android or Apple.

    This is why Microsoft will never dominate mobile... it has a penchant to shoot itself in the foot.

  17. J J Carter Silver badge

    The horror, the horror!

    On the plus side, unlike APPL MSFT aren't shipping an OS upgrade which deliberately cripples older devices to force you to upgrade.

    Or are they?!?

  18. Thoguht Silver badge

    Needs 1GB RAM?

    I'm amazed they can even fit it in 1GB. It's basically desktop Windows 10 but without all the legacy Win32 support gubbins. The damn thing even has a "Program Files (x86)" folder (which is a bit strange when you come to think about it).

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Needs 1GB RAM?

      Desktop Win10 runs in 1GB RAM fine. It insists on quite a lot more before it will let you install it, but after installation you can remove some of the RAM without penalty.

      Microsoft's minimum system requirements are increasingly just fluff to encourage you to buy a new computer. It is a big change from 20 years ago when you had to double almost every parameter in the min spec to have a usable system.

      Oh, and that "Program Files (x86)" folder would come in very handy if they ever dusted off their x86 emulator, written for RISC processors back when a top-end CPU had, er, some modest fraction of the CPU power of a modern low-end phone. ;)

      1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        Re: Needs 1GB RAM?

        > Oh, and that "Program Files (x86)" folder would come in very handy if they ever dusted off their x86 emulator, written for RISC processors back when a top-end CPU had, er, some modest fraction of the CPU power of a modern low-end phone. ;)

        The x86 emulator only had to do x86-16 or x86-32 on a 64bit RISC CPU - Alpha, POWER or MIPS. Running x86-64 on an ARM 32 bit CPU, as is currently used in most phones, is quite a different issue.

        It is more likely that they will try to squeeze in a small x86 core somewhere.

  19. Charlie Clark Silver badge


    Windows Phone’s market share peaked at 12 per cent in August 2013, a month before Microsoft’s acquisition of the phones unit was announced.

    That 12 % is cherry-picked from sales in particular markets. Worldwide and Windows Phone has never been above 5 %, which is why Nokia thew the towel in.

    The numbers quoted about the most popular Lumias would appear to back this up: people are either sticking with what they've got or are moving to Android or IOS. You might expect the typical two-year contract and phone renewal to work in Microsoft's favour: switch to new phone with new OS (Windows 10). But it obviously isn't. Here the lack of compelling new phones, no doubt due to pink slips and lack of investment since the takeover, is going to cause problems.

  20. thomas k

    Here's hoping ...

    that they just totally bypass the 520. I'm quite satisfied with it as it is.

    1. GrantB

      Re: Here's hoping ...

      Agreed. I have an iPhone supplied by work, (and an Android tablet for around the house use) but still use my old Nokia 520 as my preferred device for phone calls, txt and navigation. Small, simple, running almost no third party apps but decent offline map's for everywhere I travel.

      I am OS agonistic and don't see the point of being a fanboy for any particular device family. Does however seem a pity that despite the ineptitude of Elop, Nokia almost got it right with the 520, but instead of bringing out a new and slightly better version of the 520 every year or two and building on that small success, encouraging owners to upgrade, they screwed it up. The later 530 was a worse device at a similar price to the 520, while other Nokia models never hit that sweet spot of a simple small phone that was as cheap as a bad Android phone, but smooth and consistent UX.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Storage space

    If space was an issue for the upgrade only, then wouldn't it be done in a multipart upgrade?

    Install the new boot loader with all required parts to go and download the rest of the os, wipe whats not needed to free up space, download the rest, install. A little more risky, but would allow the update to take place.

    1. Vic

      Re: Storage space

      Install the new boot loader with all required parts to go and download the rest of the os, wipe whats not needed to free up space, download the rest, install

      That makes rollback a touch difficult...


  22. Richard Plinston Silver badge

    Low cost ?

    > an impressive range of low cost models.

    It was not so much 'low cost' as low price. In spite of MS giving a $billion a year to Nokia the phone division did not make a profit in any quarter that they made WP phones. This indicates that (overall) the phone's selling prices were below the total costs.

    Nokia made that not continue and MS wrote off another $7billion.

  23. James O'Shea

    left windows phones a long time ago

    I used to have Windows on my company cell phone. The company insisted. They had a special app, written for Windows Mobile 5, and everyone had to use it. Everyone. No exceptions.

    The app broke on impact with WinMob 6. The company re-wrote it. It didn't like WinMob 6.5. The company re-wrote it. It crashed and burned on impact with WinPh 7. (Wouldn't even install, Mickeysoft deleted something or other...) The company gave up and set up on iOS and Android. Haven't had to do a re-write since. This meant, of course, that we dumped the WinPhones. Which is why my company phone is now an iPhone 5s. Apple (and Samsung, and LG, and Motorola, and HTC, and even ZTE) marketing should write letters of profound thanks to Redmond. Without Microsoft's assistance a lot of corporations would still be running various versions of Windows phones. Microsoft went out of their way to screw 'em over, so they went elsewhere.

    I still have my old Samsung Omnia, the SGH-i910. It allegedly still works, if you can call being shackled to Veriscum's CDMA crap working, and runs WinMob 6.1. I power it up every now and again just to see if it still runs. I have never used a WinPh 7 or later device, as the company just gave up and went with vendors who didn't actively hate their clients. I use the Omnia as a paperweight. Someone once, ah, 'borrowed' it. About a week later it showed up back on my desk. Yes, folks, it's not even worth stealing...

  24. chrisB98

    Almost ready for prime time

    After 22 years of getting excited about Microsoft almost getting it right in the next version, I think I'm finally getting over it. I have a Samsun ATIV S Neo, and I am fine with it. Not great, not bad. I'd move to the 950 but I won't go to AT&T and Sprint (where I am now) will never get it until they are free from the recycle center. I'm thinking go to Verizon and pick up a new Lumia 928 from eBay for $100. Of course what I'd really like to do is go to a phone that was actually useful for phone calls, like my old Blackberry Curve. Oh well.

  25. Terry 6 Silver badge

    What b*llocks

    1.) My 18 month old 635 is not an ancient and obsolete device by any sane stretch of imagination. But maybe in the heads of marketing tossers in the IT companies it is. Since it has the 1/2gb of memory it will not apparently update. Maybe that's a good thing, but that's beside the point.

    2.) ", this probably won't matter to most 520/630 owners, who are very unlikely to be tech enthusiasts and won't even be aware of any further upgrade possibilities...." So this "tech expert" presumably thinks that " tech enthusiast " is the same as fashion following sheep that only want the latest shiny shiny.

    God help the industry.

    1. ROC

      Re: What b*llocks

      My "old" 635 has been running the last few WP 10 Preview's fine, although I don't use it on the phone network as I like my 640 much better for "real world" use, and it is staying on 8.1 until/unless I see compelling reasons to "upgrade" after go-live (aka public beta) of WP 10.

  26. JLV Silver badge

    Just wondering...

    >Six out of the 10 most popular Windows Phones are two years old.

    >Why is this a problem?

    Wouldn't that also mean that more recent models aren't being sold much and that sales aren't ramping up? That might be a tad bigger one than just the technicalities around the Windows 10 uptake.

    I have no huge beef around MS phones, I briefly considered buying one (a 640 or 740?) as a replacement phone (price == very good, but low res for huge screen). But I wonder when MS is going to drop or fix that product line because it seems to be in zombieland right now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just wondering...

      I'm not a young man, so my eyes aren't as good as they used to be, but (wearing glasses) I've no problem with screen resolution on the 640. And that includes watching videos on it.

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