back to article The only way is down for NetApp, HPE and IBM storage – study

In its inaugural Voice of the Enterprise: Storage Study, 451 Research forecasts public cloud storage spend to double in two years – with NetApp, HPE and IBM falling down the supplier rankings as Amazon's AWS and Microsoft's Azure bulldoze their way in. We have seen a copy of the report: 451 asked its enterprise research base “ …

  1. RaidOne

    Order of years

    Who the heck puts the future first and past last in a graph? So we get confused on the trend? Or is it made for people reading right to left?

  2. Lusty

    It's sad to think that the forward thinking of their customers that put NetApp into customers is the same thing that will kick them out. An environment with NetApp felt like the future for the last few years (compared to other SAN) but cloud is making it feel like the past. That said, NetApp "in the cloud" is a great solution for larger enterprise to get around the various shortcomings of AWS and Azure for a few years.

    1. Mr.Nobody

      So I am intrigued. What makes you say that cloud (maybe be more specific) makes netapp storage feel like the past? What about it seems more futuristic (and I would therefore expect to also assume one would think cloud storage is better)?

      1. Lusty

        Cloud solutions, specifically software as a service are very obviously the future of most software for most people. These will fairly obviously be running on PaaS or IaaS from AWS or Azure due to the PAYG cost model which allows them to sell SaaS on a PAYG model.

        There is no room for NetApp in this model or any other storage vendor. Sure, there will be niche solutions which need storage but these probably won't justify the cleverness.

        As for right now, NetApp solutions when properly implemented make other SAN vendors look very 90s with their automation and integrated recovery shenanigans. That's why Microsoft and VMware love them so much too because they make private cloud look good.

  3. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    The Dell - EMC deal isn't closed yet:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/21/two_big_risk_torpedoes_could_screw_dellemc_deal/

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    MellorGraphitis

    If you're use to driving in the UK, the graphs look normal.

    1. PJF

      Re: MellorGraphitis

      If you're use to driving in the UK, the graphs look normal.

      Anything East of the pond, and South of the equator, is bas-akwards....

      Yeah, I've gotta agree, who the f puts projections before reality?!

  5. FlBe

    No SAN

    And I thought in future there is only Nutanix (no SAN Storage anymore and no VMware anymore) ...

    1. 7layer

      Re: No SAN

      He-he, how about vSAN from VMware? This is the holy grail in storage now-days...

    2. Lusty

      Re: No SAN

      Yup, I certainly prefer my blocks to bounce around multiple nodes in the data centre before being fully committed. Gives my servers thinking time between IOs ;)

  6. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. Man Mountain

    This seems like a fairly pointless study to me. But assuming there is any relevance, isn't it a bigger issue for a vendor to be dropping significantly in terms of %, rather than dropping their position in a list. Look at HPE for example, barely drops in terms of % yet is highlighted because it slips down the list? EMC are still leading but have a much larger proportional drop. To me that's a bigger issue. Although will add that I think this whole study is a bit of a nonsense.

  8. InfraGuy-HPE

    Relatively pointless it seems. Bit unfair pulling out HPE as the casualty in 'placing', when you look at the (backwards!) graphs you can see that they actually survive best of all the vendors in terms of %age drop. No doubt down to the all flash 3PAR still being needed for the top tier local stuff.

    Don't rule out local object as a disruptor either. I'm seeing solutions at the large-scale end that are better priced than current cloud storage offerings.

    HPE Employee

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      More likely down to including all the server storage in their stats? 3Par aren't popular at all in the enterprise, at least not here in the UK...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        You're kidding right? 3PAR number 1 array (midrange and AFA) in the UK. It does better in the UK than anywhere else! HPE employee obviously.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "3PAR number 1 array"

          Lol did HPE tell you that? That's a good one. I've worked with a very large percentage of UK businesses and seen almost no 3Par in the wild so no idea where they all are.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            LOL obviously you worked in a very large percentage of non datacentre customers, after all you're unlikely to find a 3PAR in a comms cupboard. Maybe link to the industry accepted figures and then we can compare 3PAR shipments to you're very own straw poll.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Shipping lots of something doesn't mean it's in widespread use. I'm aware of several service providers using 3Par who no doubt bought oodles of the stuff. This means there could be 30 customers each with a large install - statistics lie all the time and shipping reports even more so. I am indeed talking about enterprise customers with proper data centres, and almost none of them have 3Par. Don't feel bad though, only one of them had Compellent and that was being replaced so 3Par definitely seems more popular than that.

              Please bear in mind that because you work for HPE you will tend to see more customers with 3Par than us vendor neutral bods who see a cross section of SAN customers from various verticals, and as I said it's very rare to see a 3Par in the wild.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                "Shipping lots of something doesn't mean it's in widespread use"

                Tell that to EMC & Netapp, yes there will always be legacy kit hanging around the data centre after all, those vendors have been shipping the same kit for 20+ years. Basing your argument on counting badges alone is reaching a conclusion based on the past and doesn't reflect the present which is an ever growing market share for 3PAR.

                Don't believe me ? Then ask your vendor of choice for the industry numbers.

                I also know of many service providers running 3PAR but I don't deal with them directly and that's just common knowledge of where 3PAR was originally targetted. What I do see today is an ever growing list of financial, commercial and public sector customers and most of those are takeouts of incumbent vendors rather than existing HP storage customers.

                But maybe your just not as vendor neutral as you're suggesting, if you really were then you'd be selling lots of 3PAR just like the rest of the independents and if you aren't then you're doing yourself and more importantly your Customers a disservice.

                Despite the hand waving you can't turn back the tide.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  You actually sound scared Mr HP(E). No need to ask for "industry numbers" when you're actually in the customer data centre. If there isn't a 3Par there they simply aren't an HP(E) customer. The lack of customers with a 3Par in the data centre is all the evidence necessary. Get out more, stop reading biased reports drip fed by your own marketing department. Really, 3Par isn't as wide spread as you think. Try going outside...

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Ah righto Mr (wish I worked for may favourite vendor) so you don't trust the IDC numbers who incidentally collate those from, and supply them back to ALL of the vendors, your favourite ones included.

                    Your unwilling to go as far as even a brief investigation into the facts, even from an independent source or a vendor of your own choosing.

                    Yet despite this lacklustre attitude and obvious inattention to detail you somehow manage to circumnavigate the UK's datacentres on a regular basis auditing their crown jewels along the way.

                    If I really do sound scared, it's possibly due to the calibre of people being allowed to enter a datacentre these days.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      No questioning of facts here. More pointing out that there are a huge number of different facts to choose from, allowing every vendor to "prove" they are "number one" in one way or another. You quoted 3Par shipments and I was talking about customer numbers - these are very definitely different things. Amazon AWS would require more shipped units than anyone else (if they bought SANs), so in theory with only a single customer you could "ship the most units". That doesn't make you popular, that means you have a few good mates with massive buy in - as stated 3Par are popular with the service provider crowd who number few but buy in bulk. As also stated, in the real world, in real data centres, in customers very large and small, myself and my many colleagues at a large HP reseller very rarely see 3Par on customer sites whether in new deployment or existing system. In the UK that is.

                      What we do see is a boat load of EMC, Equallogic (but almost no Compellent), NetApp, Hitachi. I've even seen more deployments of Nimble in the wild than I have 3Par and I consider them to be new and pointless as a vendor (in terms of they bring nothing new).

                      I've nothing against 3Par, it's a pretty good SAN that's dependable and performs well but there really aren't that many customers using it.

                      1. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        "I've even seen more deployments of Nimble in the wild than I have 3Par "

                        Well that just really goes to show you aren't getting around as many customer DC's as you'd have us believe and it sounds like your mate at a HP reseller obviously isn't doing his job, either that or he's desk bound.

                        3PAR's install base, even excluding service providers dwarfs Nimble by a huge margin. Q.E.D.....

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Well you obviously don't work in the enterprise here in the UK:-) either that, or you could just be attempting to spread a bit of mild but still slightly desperate sounding FUD.

  9. CPU

    With the trend to put the storage spend out in the Cloud, the only question worth asking is who supplies the Cloud bunnies with their storage?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Well Microsoft at least aren't using SAN as we know it and I doubt Amazon are either looking at how the storage works so these are both just buying disks directly from the cheapest source. I believe VMware use EMC but since they run a colo rather than a cloud that's not surprising.

  10. admiraljkb

    Given the complete volatility in storage right now - there is NO way to get an accurate prediction for the coming year.

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