back to article Trump's new thought bubble: Make Apple manufacture in the USA

US Presidential wannabe Donald Trump has once again waded into matters technological, this time sketching an industry policy that would heavily tax US companies that don't manufacture on US soil. Trump went on to single out Apple, saying that “we're gonna get Apple to start building their damn computers and things in this …

  1. Curly4

    Mr. Trump, You may try to make Apple build its products here in the US but what Apple will do is just move its company to China. So in the end the US will loose everything and China will be the one who reaps the benefits.

    Mr Trump I think that you will have a hard time getting that negotiated.

    1. Michael Thibault

      A reminder, Mr. Trump: "Location, location, location".

      As for "Apple will ... just move its company to China": unless, of course, Mr. Trump (if ever mistakenly actually elected PoTUS) also simultaneously holds out a carrot that takes the form of a tax holiday on repatriated profits--giving US companies reason to bring home the bacon and, thereafter, begin producing domestically in earnest. It takes a considerable length of time to spend as little as a billion $US. A couple of dozen of those and you're talking terms--two, maybe three.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "...also simultaneously holds out a carrot...

        I doubt that will happen - to paraphrase a Texan saying, Trump is all stick and no carrot.

        Someone might mention it to him as a Good Idea (tm), but Trump is so convinced that he is the cleverest man on Earth that I also doubt that he'll take any notice (at least not until it is waaaayyyy to late.

    2. DougS Silver badge

      Apple won't leave for China

      He'll stop Apple from moving by building a wall around China. And having the Chinese pay for it!

      At least until he finds out China already has a wall, which the Chinese did pay for (or maybe people China conquered paid for it, I'm really not sure...)

    3. Mage Silver badge

      Move to China?

      Most of the Apple Company is already outside USA and not paying much tax anywhere. Certainly not in USA.

      Corporation tax is maybe too high everywhere, and specifically in USA. Tax the sales, the share dividends and corporate benefits and senior salaries and tax haven issues of corporation tax are reduced?

    4. boltar Silver badge

      "Apple will do is just move its company to China."

      LOL, yeah, right. You can just imagine all those wealthy liberal board members just jumping at the chance of moving to hard line dictatorship. Not.

      No, if Apple did move it would be a few hundred miles north to Canada or perhaps Europe. Location might not matter to the legal entity that is a corporation, but it matters a hell of a lot to the people who work for it.

      Anyway, whats so wrong with the idea of bringing manufacturing back to the USA? I imagine a large proportion of the population would be more than happy about it.

      1. jzl

        A company can move countries without actually changing its physical location. Tim Cook would stay right where he is.

        Apple has physical offices all around the world. The country of incorporation is a legal detail and has pretty much no physical significance.

        Also, you ask what's wrong with bringing manufacturing back to the USA?

        It's one thing if Tim Cook proposes it voluntarily (although it would impose a substantial cost penalty that competitors in South Korea, China and Japan don't face).

        It's something else entirely if the president of the federal government forces them to do it. Last time I checked, the law didn't grant the president that sort of power and the US is built on the concept of freedom.

        1. NotBob

          Last time I checked, the law didn't grant the president that sort of power

          Let me introduce you to a concept called "interstate commerce." The federal government has constitutional regulatory authority over it. It's been misinterpreted enough that in the 1940s, it was used to punish a farmer for growing more wheat than he was allowed to grow, even though the wheat was to feed the farmer's own cattle (see Wickard v. Filburn).

          Pretty sure that could be used with less twisting to help "influence" Apple et all.

      2. SEDT

        The Great Wall of Trump

        Manufacture whatever you like wherever you like. The test comes when you sell that product in the market, and have to compete against whoever is manufacturing the same thing, perhaps better elsewhere and for less.

        I don't get him. Is Trump really this thick. Or is he unsubtly pandering to the somewhat poorly educated in the hope that his shakey campaign will gather sufficient momentum to plonk him into the Oval oriface

        1. boltar Silver badge

          Re: The Great Wall of Trump

          "The test comes when you sell that product in the market, and have to compete against whoever is manufacturing the same thing, perhaps better elsewhere and for less."

          Given the premium the people are willing to pay for Apple products I don't see that being an issue.

      3. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Anyway, whats so wrong with the idea of bringing manufacturing back to the USA? I imagine a large proportion of the population would be more than happy about it.

        While I agree in principle, there's a different reality. Bring in manufacturing jobs to a country where segments of the population believe burger flipping is a career and they should be paid $15 an hour for it? A country were for decades, dads who worked in factories told their children that they should do better than work in a factory? There are factory jobs that go unfilled because the millennials (for starters) think that work is beneath them no matter how much they're paid for the work.

        1. DougS Silver badge

          Replying to multiple posts

          Manufacturing in the US - if Apple reaches the point where they want to do it in an automated fashion, instead of having people put together all the fiddly bits, then it doesn't really matter much where the factory is located. Obviously bringing that sort of manufacturing back to the US wouldn't bring a whole lot of jobs either. I suspect that as automation grows, more manufacturing will come back to the US, but any jobs they create will not help those lower skilled people who were displaced when manufacturing jobs started leaving the US.

          Trump - he knows what he's doing, and he's pandering to the "angry white man" contingent of the republican party that blames everyone else (liberals/Obama, illegal aliens / non-whites, China, congress, etc.) for their own problems. Trump tells them he'll make America great, bring back jobs, build a wall to keep out illegals, and so forth without regard to how he will do these things or if they are even constitutional. I have to admit I thought he'd stick his foot in his mouth and flame out long ago, but his supporters like that he speaks his mind. Say what you want about him, he doesn't have speechwriters like everyone else, and he's becoming more polished as far as how he conducts himself (though he still says outrageous things) so he looks to make a serious run. I think if he's elected he would probably be forced to govern from the center. We had an actor as president in the 80s and survived, could a real estate tycoon be any worse?

          Corporation tax - while it is the too high in the US, the democrats won't lower it without removing loopholes that allow some companies to pay nothing or nearly so, and the republicans won't allow that because it would mean raising taxes on some corporations that contribute (tax deductible!) to their campaigns. In the end it doesn't matter, because the money Apple and others holds overseas is taxable, just not today.

          Moving corporate HQ - while it is doable the PR hit especially for a company like Apple would be massive, so it is not something likely to happen. I agree there's no way they'd move to China. The way that US drug companies have been moving overseas is via a reverse merger. They get "acquired" by a European company and the merged entity has its HQ there. I put quotes around acquired because the acquirer is much smaller thus the name reverse merger. I think simply moving overseas may trigger taxes due on overseas cash first which is why you never see successful US multinationals move their HQ out of the US.

          1. Ken 16 Silver badge
            Paris Hilton

            PR hit?

            Apple makes 2/3rds of it's money outside the US, which is a declining market. The PR boost in the growth markets of China would probably make it worthwhile

      4. A_Noid

        Yes, especially the unions.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Absolutely - Taiwan or China Apples new HQ

      But do you think Mr Chump, whoops I mean Mr Trump is capable of thinking that one through?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The media in its little twitter echo-chamber badly distorts reality. Just by the amount of air-time they're giving him, an outsider would think Trump matters.

    In reality, how credible is Trump? Is all this bluster and American exceptionalism what voters are actually looking for?

    1. Afernie

      And now, play the substitution game:

      "In reality, how credible is Corbyn? Is all this tea-drinking and brown sandals what voters are actually looking for?", said just about every pundit ever before the Labour leadership election.

      Corbyn may have no chance of being elected as PM, but he's turned the UK political landscape on its head. Trump might not have a real shot at President, but he's clearly not dropping out and there are enough fruitloops who drool on his every braying rant to make things horribly interesting. Look at how the rest of the GOP 'candidates' adjust their rhetoric to match the kind of crap he comes out with.

      1. Patrician

        Re: And now, play the substitution game:

        I wouldn't say that Corbyn has "turned the UK political landscape on its head"; he's just managed to turn the labour party into an unelectable comedy act.

        1. Jess

          Re: he's just managed to turn the labour party into an unelectable comedy act.

          It already was that. The last election proved that.

          At least now you can tell the difference between their policies and the Tories.

        2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: And now, play the substitution game:

          That's what you and I think!

          I wouldn't be so sure that this is a fact though. Unfortunately.

      2. MonkeyCee Silver badge

        Re: And now, play the substitution game:

        There are quite large differences between Corbyn and Trump, the most compelling being that Corbyn is (and has been for ~30 years) an elected politician, and now elected as the head of the Labour party. Trump has neither been elected to political office, or won the nomination of the GOP.

        As for their effect on the political landscape, I'm fairly sure neither is changing the opposition parties viewpoint.

        Trump is stating policies that are clearly fantastic and impossible to implement, but it's not like some of the other GOP aren't above suggesting that only christians should be allowed refugee status in the USA.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          What's a GOP?

          "or won the nomination of the GOP."

          What's the GOP? I thought in the USA it was all Republicans and Democrats with the occasional wealthy idiot independent?

          1. Rich 11 Silver badge

            Re: What's a GOP?

            What's the GOP?

            Grand Old Party, a nickname for the Republican Party. Though I'm sure other, more entertaining, expansions are available.

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: What's a GOP?

              "Grand Old Party, a nickname for the Republican Party."

              Thanks!.

              (not sure which ignorant twats downvoted me for asking a reasonable question though)

              And yes @MKI, in my experience, GOP is group of pictures too :-)

          2. MJI Silver badge

            Re: What's a GOP?

            Group Of Pictures

            Used in MPEG encoding

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_pictures

          3. John G Imrie Silver badge

            Re: What's a GOP?

            I thought it stood for God's Own Party

            1. only_mortal

              Re: What's a GOP?

              We call it YLF in Yorkshire.

          4. This post has been deleted by its author

          5. sed gawk

            Re: What's a GOP?

            GOP = grand old party = republicans

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And now, play the substitution game:

          Am I the only one that secretly wants Trump to get elected, just to see what happens?

          1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

            Re: And now, play the substitution game:

            "Am I the only one that secretly wants Trump to get elected, just to see what happens?"

            I expect that Vladimir Putin prays to an ikon every night that Trump gets elected. An isolationist, neo-fascist and a Republican government - what could possibly go wrong?

          2. Col_Panek

            Re: And now, play the substitution game:

            Easy for you to say if you don't live here.

            Just remember, though, you live on the same planet, and the POTUS has nucular bombs.

        3. breakfast

          Re: And now, play the substitution game:

          Seems like Corbyn has a lot more in common with Bernie Sanders, who is the only candidate on either side that appears to have even a slightly positive voter approval rating in the wider US electorate. Whether that will result in anything interesting happening is a moot point.

      3. hammarbtyp Silver badge

        Re: And now, play the substitution game:

        Corbyn may have no chance of being elected as PM, but he's turned the UK political landscape on its head.

        Corbyn has turned Labour around.

        It used to be un-electable and fragmented. Now it's fragmented and un-electable

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hey El Reg...

    Why are you wasting electrons on this clown?

    1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: Hey El Reg...

      Clown he may be but Trump is the leader in the GOP field according to the polls.

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: Hey El Reg...

        Clown he may be but Trump is the leader in the GOP field according to the polls.

        I guess I need a pedantic type's help or at least someone better versed in the mother tongue than this "Merikin... is he a "twatdangle" or a "cockwomble"?

        1. MrDamage

          Re: Hey El Reg...

          He is more than both. He is Trump.

          Twatdangling

          Rectum-faced

          Uterine Discharge

          Mexican Hating

          Prat of the highest order.

    2. John Bailey

      Re: Hey El Reg...

      "Why are you wasting electrons on this clown?"

      Comedy.

      Embarrassing Americans.

      Providing a warning to others about the dangers of not voting against such cretins.

      Pick one.. Pick em all.

      It would almost be worth him getting elected just for the sheer naked horror he would bring to corporate America before he ran the whole country into the ground...

      1. Stu Mac

        Re: Hey El Reg...

        That is rather to ignore history. He couldn't be a worse Pres than Obama, Bush or Clinton.

        1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

          Re: Hey El Reg...

          "He couldn't be a worse Pres than Obama, Bush or Clinton."

          Oh he couldn't? I think you might be underestimating him.

          1. James 51 Silver badge
            Joke

            Re: Hey El Reg...

            Don't you mean misunderestimate him?

        2. MJI Silver badge

          Re: Hey El Reg...

          He makes Bush Junior seem like a very intelligent thoughtfull person.

          Fart and wiggy are terrible

          1. jason 7

            Re: Hey El Reg...

            Bush Jr would have been fine as a President had 9/11 and all the crap after not happened. In fact he could have done two terms and no one hardly would have known who he was. He would have just signed the usual forms, attended the usual dinners and spent 75% of his time in office playing golf at his ranch in Texas.

            He was just a guy to keep things ticking over, not to rock the boat. Unfortunately for him...

        3. DavCrav Silver badge

          Re: Hey El Reg...

          "That is rather to ignore history. He couldn't be a worse Pres than Obama, Bush or Clinton."

          No upvotes, fifteen downvotes and counting. Just how far from the pack have you strayed?

          1. AndyS

            Re: Hey El Reg...

            > Just how far from the pack reality have you strayed?

        4. Ken 16 Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Hey El Reg...

          I'll take that bet

    3. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

      Re: Hey El Reg...Why are you wasting electrons on this clown?

      No electrons were destroyed in writing about Trump. I think you mean "Dropping electrons down a potential hole". Which is similar to but on a much smaller scale than what the Republican Party will do when it comes to actual nomination time.

    4. Mark 85 Silver badge
      Devil

      @AC -- Re: Hey El Reg...

      I guess we should ask then: Why are you wasting electrons reading the article and commenting on it?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @AC -- Hey El Reg...

        @ Mark 85

        What makes you think I read the article?

  4. Magani
    Headmaster

    Corrections and Clarifications Column

    In a recent article, the sentence ending:-

    "... it builds in China because the local populace offers it skills not available in the USA."

    should have read:-

    "... it builds in China because the local populace offers it hourly rates not available in the USA."

    Thank you.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Corrections and Clarifications Column

      Amen. Trump being a puffed-up bellend (#) doesn't change the fact that Apple's claim is still obvious self-serving bulls**t.

      (#) Upon re-reading, I realised this sounds like something you ought to get antibiotics from your doctor for.

    2. Lars Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Corrections and Clarifications Column

      Yes, but it's much more than about "hourly rates". I think Jobs was asked about it years ago and I think hes response was that the "technology", to produce iThings, had already left the USA. Let me give you an example.

      When Britain now builds a new nuclear plant they have to turn to a country that has that technology, and, as it is today, it's the USA or Russia or France with China. Companies like the Royal Caribbean and Cunard build their cruisers in Finland, Germany, France and Italy for the same reason, and not in China or Britain. This comparison is not quite fair as iThings are about mass production, but mass production is high tech too. How many minutes will a Chinese hand touch a iPhone while it's being made.

      So yes, I would like Apple to build a large factory in the USA, they have some 200bn somewhere to do it in some years. Will they do it, hardly.

      Call this capitalism or globalization or what ever, money doesn't smell has no nationality and no patriotism.

      As for Trumpf, I enjoy listening to him, eyes somewhere else, I like comedy.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Corrections and Clarifications Column

        Upvoted for using "Trumpf". I am assuming it is not a typo.

    3. Wilco

      Re: Corrections and Clarifications Column

      It's undoubtedly true that workers in China are paid a lot less than those in Merryka, In 2014 Foxconn paid US$370 / month to it's workers (http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/report/107). The minimum wage in the US is US$7.25, corresponding to $1257 / month for a 40 hour week (7.25*40*52/12 - though workers in china work a lot more hours than that)

      However, Apple has plenty of spare billions and could afford to eat the additional cost (and the additional US tax it would pay), or raise prices a little and accept slightly lower sales.

      The real problem is going to be finding 1,500,000 american workers skilled/trainable in microelectronic assembly who aren't otherwise employed, not to mention, say, 100 enormous factories for them to work in. Foxconn's revenues are 131 billion, and it's taken 40 years to get to the scale that they are at now.

      You can't force Apple to do the impossible.

      Anyway, chances are that President Trump will have started a nuclear war long before Apple can finish even one factory

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Mis-direction

    Trump is actually a mega hippie who wants to make the USA into a walled commune where there is peace and love and guns and everything lives off the burgers and fries that grow on the Wendy's tree.

  6. ps2os2

    Trump

    What Trump isn't saying that he will allow unlimited H1B's to people from other countries.

    1. hammarbtyp Silver badge

      Re: Trump

      Apart from Mexicans and Muslims...

    2. Naselus Silver badge

      Re: Trump

      "What Trump isn't saying that he will allow unlimited H1B's to people from other countries."

      Yeah, that's clearly the big reason not to vote for him. Everything else he has said has been entirely reasonable.

  7. Winkypop Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Trump for POTUS

    That 'B' Ark is looking better and better.

  8. Barbarian At the Gates

    For a guy that claims to be a "businessman"

    He doesn't understand how businesses work.

    1. RIBrsiq
      Joke

      Making a small fortune, Trump-style

      * First, you start with a big fortune...

    2. Nehmo

      Re: For a guy that claims to be a "businessman"

      He pretends to not understand business, but you'll note he makes his clothing line in Mexico, China, and Bangladesh http://goo.gl/HdyGqM . He says these things because they appeal to the audience. If elected president, it will be impossible for him to deliver on many points. But that will be after the election.

      1. JetSetJim Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: For a guy that claims to be a "businessman"

        If elected president, it will be impossible for him to deliver on many points. But that will be after the election

        Surely not! I'm shocked at your cynicism

      2. CarbonLifeForm

        Re: For a guy that claims to be a "businessman"

        Thats essentially what Obama did... I spoke to Obama supporters before the first election and their expectations were, shall we say, bizarre. Most of them did not materialize. Guaranteed incomes, an end to actual and perceuved bias, an end to global warming, world peace everywhere. It gets you elected.

    3. dan1980

      Re: For a guy that claims to be a "businessman"

      @Barbarian at the Gates

      "He doesn't understand how businesses work."

      I would argue that spouting rubbish like this merely proves that he understands how a certain segment of American voters work.

      Saying things that clearly won't work doesn't necessarily imply that he doesn't know they won't work - it's just as likely (more so, actually) that he is simply saying whatever he thinks will get him cheers and publicity. And he appears to be correct. For the moment.

    4. Frank Bough

      Re: For a guy that claims to be a "businessman"

      He doesn't really understand how anything works.

      Oh, and Apple do build the Mac Pro in the US.

      1. Afernie

        Re: For a guy that claims to be a "businessman"

        "Oh, and Apple do build the Mac Pro in the US."

        "They do assemble the Mac Pro in the US as a token gesture to deflect criticism over outsourcing" would be closer to the mark.

        1. Sean Timarco Baggaley

          Re: For a guy that claims to be a "businessman"

          The one thing China does better than (almost) everybody else is scale. The US has nothing that can crank out products at the rate Foxconn's factories do.

          It's not just about the assembly or cheap labour either, but the vast logistics chains that support those megafactories. There isn't anywhere in the US that could handle the sheer quantities of physical stuff that has to be shifted around to keep all those massive factories fed with raw materials, individual components (which are often also made in China), and so on, while all also coping with the finished products that have to be shipped out again. Some of China's container ports make even Rotterdam and the Port of Los Angeles look like tiny fishing villages by comparison.

          Apple only build the Mac Pro in the US because it doesn't sell in anywhere like the vast numbers their other product lines do, nor did they ever expect it to do so. They only make them at all because it looks bad for their image if they show people around their own campus and reveal loads of boring Dell workstations being used instead of something shiny with an Apple logo on it. The Mac Pro isn't so much a workstation as a branding exercise.

          The US (like the UK) has an economy based around intellectual property, not making physical products. Making stuff doesn't actually pay that well. This is why Apple, despite a big fall in share price lately, is still valued at over $500 bn. By comparison, Foxconn is worth a "mere" $87.3 bn. And they don't just make stuff for Apple.

          1. Lars Silver badge
            Coat

            Re: For a guy that claims to be a "businessman"

            "Making stuff doesn't actually pay that well". So true, but people who are making stuff earn money and are not unemployed and can afford stuff. But this of course is just a hoax like global warning.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: For a guy that claims to be a "businessman"

      "He doesn't understand how businesses work."

      This may be true but unfortunately he does understand how celebrity works in the US.

  9. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Mushroom

    You know the good thing about DT?

    He makes most other Politicians seem to be sane, reasonable and sensible.

    Perhaps the UK Parliament should ban him? Might be the sensible thing to do in the long run.

    On second thoughts, if the US were somehow crazy enough to elect him then ....

    1. dan1980

      Re: You know the good thing about DT?

      @Steve Davies 3

      "You know the good thing about DT? He makes most other Politicians seem to be sane, reasonable and sensible."

      Actually, that's the worst thing about him as you have scarcely less ridiculous and inflammatory politicians realising that they just have to be slightly saner while still believing and espousing much the same nonsense.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You know the good thing about DT?

      Perhaps the UK Parliament should ban him?

      The b*** b*** chickened out yesterday. It made for a lovely mud-slinging match in parliament though. You could also see that some of them are not far behind Mr Trump himself.

      1. Sean Timarco Baggaley

        Re: You know the good thing about DT?

        Trump may be playing a blustering ignoramus on TV, but Boris Johnson has been doing just that for decades now, so it's hardly a new technique.

        However, the Human Right of "Freedom of Expression" has nuances that many people seem to be unaware of:

        Most such Human Rights apply specifically -- and ONLY -- to governments. I.e. they are there to protect us from being arrested, or similarly sanctioned, because of something we have said. While there are exceptions, such as incitement to violence, the fundamental principle is that you can say your piece without fear of arrest, exile, or other government-mandated punishment.

        However, these rights do not apply to private entities or people. A pub landlord is not obliged to allow Trump to spout his bollocks in his bar, and is perfectly entitled to ban him from entering. The Register's forum mods are also perfectly entitled to delete posts or ban posters whose jib they don't like the cut of.

        If the UK government were to ban Trump from even entering the country purely on the basis of the man's opinions, no matter how ignorant or misguided, this would be such a blatant violation of said freedom that Trump's lawyers would have a field day suing the UK over it.

        People who insist on silencing those who disagree with them, instead of having the balls to defeat their opponents' arguments through reason and debate, are part of the problem, not the solution. Banning is as undemocratic as exiling your enemies to Siberia.

        1. Naselus Silver badge

          Re: You know the good thing about DT?

          "If the UK government were to ban Trump from even entering the country purely on the basis of the man's opinions, no matter how ignorant or misguided, this would be such a blatant violation of said freedom that Trump's lawyers would have a field day suing the UK over it."

          Uh... no, it wouldn't.

          The UK bans hundreds of people from visiting the country every year based on their opinion of Islamic doctrine. You have no guaranteed human right to enter a country where you don't have citizenship, and if they say 'no, you're not coming here in trainers' then you're not going to get far in court. Especially since Trump's remarks can be construed as hate speech, which is in violation of UK laws.

          I agree that banning him from entering for saying the US should ban people from entering would be kind of self-defeating, though, and the correct recourse is to defeat him in a reasoned debate. If only the Republican primary candidates had anyone capable of reasoned debate, we wouldn't still be getting 20 Trump stories a week. Trump's campaign mostly works through using the standard tactics that the GOP has favoured over the last decade or so against them.

          1. TheDillinquent

            Re: You know the good thing about DT?

            Let him come, and then arrest him as soon as he starts spouting his hate speech drivel.

        2. Lars Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: You know the good thing about DT?

          @ Sean Timarco Baggaley. The Brits could of course use his own rhetoric and ban him until they know "what the hell goes on".

        3. Jonathan Richards 1

          Re: You know the good thing about DT?

          @Sean Timarco Baggaley re Trump sues for breach of human rights.

          There is nothing in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights about freedom to travel into a foreign country[1]

          Article 19

          Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

          What the UK Home Secretary is able to do, and (as others have said) often does, is refuse entry to the UK on the grounds that the presence of the individual is 'not conducive to the public good'. I don't think that Trump would have a human rights case that the courts would not throw out in mere moments.

          [1] Unless, of course, Trumpf should turn up seeking asylum (Article 14 refers). Could happen...

          Source: Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights

          1. Sean Timarco Baggaley

            Re: You know the good thing about DT?

            Yes, yes, I know all that. I never said his lawyers would win.

            It's all about publicity. It always was, and always will be. That's what Trump does. He's the US' answer* to Richard Branson.

            The main thing is that flinging lawsuits and accusing the UK of rights abuses, real or otherwise, gets him more publicity and makes the UK look like it's run by cowardly, clueless, overpaid bletherskites who are incapable of doing anything other than react, badly, to professional outrageists on Twitter.

            * (I am, of course, assuming the question is: "Bet your favourite narcissistic billionaire doesn't have a worse hairstyle than ours.")

    3. macjules Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: You know the good thing about DT?

      The UK would never ban him. Gods forbid that might set a precedent against allowing the current incumbents of the British Labour Party into DisneyWorld for their annual outing.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

        Re: You know the good thing about DT?

        @macjules

        They could go to EuroDisney.

        "We'll always have Paris..."

        1. Alien8n Silver badge

          Re: You know the good thing about DT?

          Hasn't been called EuroDisney for over 20 years, was formally changed to Disneyland Paris back in 1995 to match the rest of the Disneyland parks worldwide.

          (Amazing how expensive 2 weeks staying in the park can be, but what a couple of weeks... Even managed to get out into Paris for a couple of days)

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: You know the good thing about DT?

            They can change the name but why should we not continue using the old ones.

            Still Eurodisney to me.

            1. Colin Ritchie
              Windows

              Re: You know the good thing about DT?

              Still EuroDisney to me too but folk look at me funny when I go into a cornershop and ask for a Marathon bar.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    After the working class vote

    Having seen US workers sacked and replaced with Indians in huge numbers Trump is simply playing to this audience. It is not small as the US has effectively shafted its working class and lower middle classes in order to enrich the 1%. Dont be surprised if the Democrats offer the same....

    1. dan1980

      Re: After the working class vote

      Which is a lovely and genuine rhetoric coming from someone in that 1%

    2. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

      Re: After the working class vote

      I didn't think there were that many Indians left in America... They must have scoured all reservations to find the required number of replacement workers... And what's that with Indians, do they work purely for fire water and don't need wages?

  11. Schlimnitz

    Increasingly convinced that Scott Adams is right

    Trump is like nerd-sniping for SJWs, journalists and all 'right thinkers', they go into apoplexies of shock, and their brains seem to shut down.

    Meanwhile, the vast majority that actually vote with their emotions, think, "hey, this guy is not afraid to tell it like it is." They are vaguely uneasy about (potentially) not having work (a fear that is conveniently drummed up by the media), so this potential 'solution' is the right melody, even if the words are strange. Copy/paste the same logic for the Muslims, Mexicans and all the other wacky pronouncements.

    The UK refusing access to the potential POTUS seems like foot-shooting in the extreme.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. DavCrav Silver badge

      Re: Increasingly convinced that Scott Adams is right

      "Meanwhile, the vast majority that actually vote with their emotions"

      Indeed. Trump appeals to the section of society who believes in the quick fix, the gut feeling, who don't like those book-learnin' types, with their facts and their understanding things.

      It's enough to make noise, but doesn't hit the 48%-odd that you need to win an election. In a multi-candidate field he can lead, because all of these type of people are drawn to him, leaving all other candidates to fight it out amongst the crazies of different stripes: the ueber-Christians foaming at the mouth for Ben Carson; those who want a woman, regardless of her abilities or attitudes, who go for Carly Fiorina; there's Ted Cruz, the thinking man's idiot, who appears to have the most reactionary position possible on almost every issue; Marco Rubio, the thinking man's slightly-less-of-an-idiot, who sounds positively liberal compared to the others around him, which detracts from his being one of the most conservative senators in the country; the rest, who don't matter.

      None of these people can win in a contest where non-Republicans are allowed to vote.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Increasingly convinced that Scott Adams is right (No, DavCrav)

        Oh I disagree oh you Social Justice Warriors.

        Trump will finally win the Republican nomination as none of the others even come close.

        And he will fare very well against the Dems as they can only field a proven, complete liar (Shrillary) who broke the law multiple times or a bloody commie lunatic (Bernie) that will tax the few remaining middle class at 90%. Not that I expect anything different from her.

        None of these Dem or Republican candidates will back out of the race and at the general election, we will have four or five running.

        That will split the vote enough for Trump to win.

        1. DavCrav Silver badge

          Re: Increasingly convinced that Scott Adams is right (No, DavCrav)

          "Oh I disagree oh you Social Justice Warriors."

          I never really thought of myself as a social justice warrior, but whatever.

          "Trump will finally win the Republican nomination as none of the others even come close."

          I think this might be true; however, Trump will do worse as the field thins. It could be a close one as to whether he wins the nomination or not.

          "And he will fare very well against the Dems as they can only field a proven, complete liar (Shrillary) who broke the law multiple times or a bloody commie lunatic (Bernie) that will tax the few remaining middle class at 90%. Not that I expect anything different from her."

          Hillary Clinton is very likely to be the nominee for the Democrats. She is hated in many places, but these are almost entirely places that never send Democrat representatives to the Electoral College. Thus this is largely irrelevant.

          "None of these Dem or Republican candidates will back out of the race and at the general election, we will have four or five running. That will split the vote enough for Trump to win."

          It might split the vote enough for Trump to win the Republican nomination, but I would be highly surprised if any candidate other than Trump ran as an independent in the actual election. If Trump does run as an independent the Democrats will definitely win. If It is Trump vs H. Clinton then I cannot see enough blue states voting for Trump, and you could be looking at a Democrat landslide, 60% of Electoral College votes.

          The problem with Trump is that you love him or you hate him. If you love him, you were never going to vote Democrat. (Although that's only because of what he is saying now. Trump of course used to be a Democrat.) If you hate him, you will never vote for him. And more than 50% of the population hate him, by most reckoning, especially once you move out of the rural sparsely populated and hence unimportant statistically, South. You cannot win the presidency without making in-roads into what is being cemented as Democratic heartlands, the East and West coasts, because that's where most people live and that' where most votes are. And they don't like him.

          The polls that put Trump ahead are done of registered Republicans, who are not a representative sample of registered voters. The best polling we have for all voters puts Trump's chances as slim.

          http://www.270towin.com/maps/bMcf

      2. Captain Queeg

        @DavCrav Re: Increasingly convinced that Scott Adams is right

        Lovely analysis, a delight to read.

      3. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

        Re: Increasingly convinced that Scott Adams is right

        "Trump appeals to the section of society who believes in the quick fix, the gut feeling"

        A good moment to remember H. L. Mencken:

        "Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem - neat, plausible, and wrong."

    3. Roo

      Re: Increasingly convinced that Scott Adams is right

      "The UK refusing access to the potential POTUS seems like foot-shooting in the extreme."

      Don't worry, that won't happen because Demented Donald Trump isn't subject to hate speech legislation, mainly because he'll be running HMG when he becomes POTUS...

    4. jzl

      Re: Increasingly convinced that Scott Adams is right

      Top tip: acronyms don't make for clear writing.

      I had to Google "SJW" and "POTUS".

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Increasingly convinced that Scott Adams is right

        "Top tip: acronyms don't make for clear writing."

        I google "jzl" and still don't' know what it stands for.

        1. jzl

          Re: Increasingly convinced that Scott Adams is right

          It doesn't stand for anything. I'm Romulan by birth.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If the American people want to put their trust in The Donald

    They should be able to do so, and they can.

    I would really like to see him try this and see where he ends up. Apple is a fine candidate to pull this fast one on, because their margins are high, and they have a lot of cash parked abroad. Best case, they continue to design the same quality and style of product they do now, only at lower margines.

    Don't think they can't do it. We Always like to compare build quality of your average Ford to a Benz S-Class and say 'look, they couldn't build a quality car if they tried', but I assure you there are many, many very fine quality American designed and built products out there.

    If course, the Chinese won't stand for it, and will start levying serious coin on the US produced phones, or denying them access to their market altogether. And possibly start punishing US companies still producing un China.

    It would be quite interesting to watch it unfold.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: If the American people want to put their trust in The Donald

      "Best case, they continue to design the same quality and style of product they do now, only at lower margines."

      Best case from whose point of view? Not necessarily Apple's. They could up-sticks and locate themselves in the most convenient country. If need be they could de-list from NYSE. So could any multinational - the clue's in the name, they can headquarter in any country they find convenient.

      If this were to happen it would almost certainly prompt other multinationals to do the same. The shock-waves could affect us all.

    2. kmac499

      Re: If the American people want to put their trust in The Donald

      "They should be able to do so, and they can"

      Quite right they should, that's the whole point of a democracy.

      The flipside should be the electors should make an informed choice, Donald's default response to anyone and everyone who challenge or disagree with him, is to label them an intellectual pygmy and not very good at their job. The classic behaviour of a bullying CEO. I'm the Boss I don't need to explain or justify myself I'm right you're wrong, you're fired.

      It's about time the journalists took the gloves off and gave him as hard a time as he gives them.

    3. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

      Re: If the American people want to put their trust in The Donald

      "We Always like to compare build quality of your average Ford to a Benz S-Class"

      Especially by people who haven't seen S-class build quality up close. Or are using pre-1995 models for comparison. Times have changed a bit, to put it mildly.

      As for the country of origin - that's an arbitrary distinction, bordering on meaningless. For instance, European Ford models are largely designed in Europe and assembled in Europe. Some components are manufactured in-house, others by suppliers all over the world. Should we define such a car as an US product? Yes, no, maybe, kind of, who-the-hell-knows. All modern cars are complex international efforts these days.

  13. LDS Silver badge
    Devil

    What is funny is NSA and FBI look comfortable...

    ... in asking Chineses to plant backdoors for them in the devices.

  14. Financegozu
    Facepalm

    Blind leading the Blind ...

    nt

  15. MJI Silver badge

    Here goes

    In the words of other people

    Buffoon, Wazzock, Repulsive, Dangerous Fool.

    And the best way of dealing with it is ridicule.

    Oh and which one is Trump?

    Is it the furry thing or the blustering moron?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Here goes

      well we do have our very own half-wit that is giving the Donald a bit of a run for his money in the "who can say the stupidest things competition"

      I give you our very own The Corbyn. The latest "We could keep Trident but run them without the nuclear warheads." Hmmmmmm so you'll spend £B's of run 4 subs around the Worlds Oceans for absolutely no reason what so ever. Not really much point in that is there Jez.

      1. Graham Marsden
        Facepalm

        @AC - Re: Here goes

        And Call Me David makes so much more sense calling for bans on encryption and Gideon flogging off the family silver (and then furniture) to make his mates richer and Treasonous May wanting to consider us all potential terrorists...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @AC - Here goes

          I think Corbyn "Trumps" David with the Trident remarks. Either you have Trident or you don't, there is NO middle ground to be had and so to say what he did makes him look a complete and utter clueless tw@t

          the other remarks about the Falklands is also an embarrassment and very insulting to the people who actually live there.

          1. Graham Marsden
            Mushroom

            Re: @AC - Here goes

            To quote an idea I saw elsewhere:

            How about, instead of spending all that money on Big Boys Toys ie Trident, simply so we can claim that "Look, we have nukes too", we use it for education and social services and nurses and paying decent state pensions etc and then, every year, we have a "Trident in Need" telethon where everyone who thinks we need Trident can chip in a few quid to support them instead...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @AC - Here goes

          what family silver? Gordon Brown did actually sell off the family Gold, and being the financial genius that he was at one of the lowest prices points in recent history

      2. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Here goes

        Can't stand that buffoon either. He is stands for everything I hate.

        a) Unilateral disarmanent, b) Argentinian claims to British territory, c) no strike controls, d) anti private school just to name a few.

        a) MAD worked and will keep fat little shit from launching one if he ever gets beyond launching washing machines

        b) It is the islanders decision not that idiots

        c) sympathy strikes, why should a company suffer strikes when there is no dispute?

        d) The parents still pay for state schooling - ever heard of freedom of choice?

        They have quite a few decent people in their party and they chose THAT! A couple of years ago Alan Johnson would have been a good choice, always comes over well on TV. Now their best choice is Hillary Benn.

        Yes the far left socialists like Corbyn, but the rest of us, no bl00dy way.

        Oh and don't get me started on Camerons replacement, but when Boris is BEST choice hmmmm.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Here goes

          A couple of years ago Alan Johnson would have been a good choice

          'ID card Alan'? If ever there was a Johnson.

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: Here goes

            Compared to the rest of his party yes.

            Still doesn't mean I would vote for them!

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Here goes

          "a) Unilateral disarmanent, b) Argentinian claims to British territory, c) no strike controls, d) anti private school just to name a few.

          a) MAD worked and will keep fat little shit from launching one if he ever gets beyond launching washing machines"

          Different world now. I would prefer we spend the money on defending ourselves from the real threat of terrorism,.

          "b) It is the islanders decision not that idiots"

          Fine - let them pay for it

          "c) sympathy strikes, why should a company suffer strikes when there is no dispute?"

          It's telling that you don't consider the striking workers as part of the company.

          "d) The parents still pay for state schooling - ever heard of freedom of choice?"

          Yes and it would be good if everyone had freedom of choice and not just the rich. Maybe if politicians didn't have private schools to send their kids to, they'd care more about the quality of state schools.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Here goes

            yep different World now, even more countries with or on the verge of getting nuclear weapons. But I think the main point being made was Corbyn thinks its a good idea to spend the £B's to run the subs but with no warheads!

            And let them pay for what exactly?!

          2. MJI Silver badge

            Re: Here goes

            Sympathy strikes are actually nothing to do with the dispute. If someone wants to strike and has reason, let them, that is what industrial disputes are for, but to strike when not your dispute, bugger off and let someone else have the job.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Here goes

              Of course sympathy strikes are related to the dispute. Solidarity of the working people against the divide and conquer approach of management.

        3. Vic

          Re: Here goes

          They have quite a few decent people in their party and they chose THAT!

          There were four candidates from which to choose. He was the only one that actually espoused anything other than "do whatever is necessary to gain power".

          Corbyn had to become leader in that election. I doubt he will win anything further...

          Vic.

        4. sed gawk

          Re: Here goes

          A) Wake up. It's not the warhead, its the big ICBM that is the limiting factor, N.K is mainly a threat to N.Koreans, they get too lippy china will squash them like a bug, better uses of money.

          Nukes are about dick measuring nothing more and nothing less, having nukes is not going to stop anyone mad enough to use them, and I remind you, so far the only country to have *used* nukes was not N.K.

          B) Because 65 million people should seriously pay for the right of 2,932 people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands to live on an island, no-one else gives a shit about, better uses of money dude.

          Sure it's their decision, let them pay for it, otherwise let them STFU.

          C) Because, the right to withdraw your labour is more or less the only way of making someone listen,

          If you go on strike you don't get paid, hence it's an unpaid day off, and I support my doctors over my employer he's a prick (I'm self employed btw).

          D) The issue is simple, if you want to send your kids to "private" school, that's fine, my personal view is that the private schools should be required to take over the state schools as part of the deal, so the quality of education has some chance of upwards trends, I don't have any objection to exercising of choice when it comes to ones children, I'm a parent, and frankly I'll fuck over anyone and everyone to help my kid, fair or not, but I'll not hide behind the figleaf of "choice".

          Johnson, That well known ex-postman who overuled Professor of Pharmacology David Nutt.

          There are many of the people in the Labour party who are Tories in red ties, he's one of them.

          illiberal, ill-educated and incompetent.

          Do you seriously think he could do much worse than the current lot ?

          He seems like a decent bloke, with some integrity, why would we want someone with integrity in charge</sarcasm>

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Here goes

            I only have a medium size nuke. I think.

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trump would have more credibility if his business dealing had made a lot of money.

    They say that if he'd put his wealth (which was his fathers) into a saving account he'd have a lot more money than he does now.

  17. Andrew Ansell

    "In reality, how credible is Trump? Is all this bluster and American exceptionalism what voters are actually looking for?"

    Depressingly yes.

    Yes, for some he is a laughing stock. But for the fox news watching, everything is someone else's fault, Obama is a Muslim traitor to the USA crowd this is exactly what they want to hear.

    And remember he isn't playing to the population as a whole, he's only got to convince republican supporters right now.

    If he gets the republican nomination a lot of republicans will vote for him even if they think he's crazy because the alternative is a democrat winning.

    US politics: where they put the stories that are too absurd for reality TV.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Same could be levelled at Corbyn over here. He was voted in with a massive mandate of likeminded Labour voters, but these aren't the people he needs to convince that he, and his policies are electable. So coming out with some of the things he has doesn't help his cause as (thankfully) Mr and Mrs average UK person isn't going to vote for him or Labour with him in charge (crosses fingers!)

  18. Tim99 Silver badge
    Gimp

    USA?

    Don't Apple have some limited manufacturing in the USA with Flextronics and Quanta, and possibly their own facilities? I seem to remember that they were using these for the Mac Pro.

  19. djstardust Silver badge

    Democracy?

    Over half a million signatures on the petition but the government avoided a vote not to upset the Americans. Some democracy we live in. Rules for some but not others.....

    1. James 51 Silver badge

      Re: Democracy?

      A million people didn't want to go to war, look how that turned out.

    2. MJI Silver badge

      Re: Democracy?

      No it is because if he comes to the UK we now can all point and laugh at him!

      I think BoJo had the right idea!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Democracy?

      Petitioning gets you a debate, not a vote.

      If you want a popular vote, start a referendum.

  20. ukgnome Silver badge
    Joke

    Does this mean we can get Trump out of Scotland?

    Shouldn't be difficult, them neeps get me windy

    1. Holleritho Silver badge

      The answer is windfarms

      Aberdeen wants an offshore windfarm right off the coast where Trump's fancy golf course is. Trump is furious and protesting that he will clear out if they go ahead. Easy solution.

  21. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    No limits

    There seems to be no limits to Trump's stupidity.

    Supposedly he has a high IQ -which begs the question how he can still be so stupid?

    Perhaps he has simply succumbed to some neurological issues.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: No limits

      Is that ignorance quotient?

  22. Badbob

    Make America Great Again...

    By investing heavily in low skilled, low paid manual labour. Sounds like a winner to me (for rich old men like Trump that is).

  23. Anthony Hegedus Silver badge

    One wonders how hitler got into power, with his ridiculous rhetoric and oppressive policies. Well, it started a little like this...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Finally !

      Godwin's law strikes again. I feared he had taken the day off.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Hitler also had a silly haircut, the similarities are worrying!

  24. wolfetone Silver badge

    I Feel Dirty

    But I can't help but agree with Trump on this one.

    I grew up in Birmingham, and vividly remember what happened when MG Rover went bankrupt. In my school of 1,400 students about 800 were from families who's parent(s) were made redundant. The government won't like to say this, but for many of those people made redundant they haven't been able to secure full time work since - nearly 10 years on. In Longbridge now they have "rejuvenated" the area. There is now a Marks & Spencers, Sainsbury's etc. All that has happened with the removal of manufacturing is that it's been replaced with retail with workers often being paid minimum wage. We found in the last recession that the UK economy wasn't balanced and we relied too much on retail and financial sectors and that we didn't have a manufacturing base to bring ourselves out of it properly. Germany, however, did. And it's Germany that continues to have a more robust economy than the UK in my opinion.

    If we look at Land Rover, who are based in Solihull which is just about 7 miles away from Longbridge, they are thriving. A friend of mine secured work there, and they're looking for a few more hundred workers - and they often get about 15,000 applications. This city isn't short of manufacturing talent, but from once being the workshop of the world Birmingham is now trying to compete with other "second cities" as being a mecca for shopping.

    We have seen what happens in China to these workers. Such are the conditions in these factories that some workers throw themselves off buildings in order to escape it. But that's because they are building a premium product under peanut finances. We, the west, want everything to be cheap. We want the cheapest products that give off an air of quality. But then we cry fowl when the people who make these products leave these shores in order to cut the cost of manufacturing - often leaving families in turmoil and on the scrapheap and forgotten about the government. Then further demonised by the people who have jobs because they need to claim job seekers while they look for work that isn't there - or is soon outsourced away.

    Apple in this instance always used to build their machines in the USA, so it's not as if this is a new idea. Remove Trump's name from this article, and it does I'm afraid make sense. If you look after your workforce in your own country, give them jobs that can pay, then that money goes straight back in to your economy and further produces jobs. Money breeds money.

    Disgusted as I am that Trump is the one to say this, I think it's brilliant idea. And it's one I wish was thought about in the UK when MG Rover went bankrupt, Peugeot closed down Ryton, and Vauxhall reduced it's Ellesmere Port workforce. Let's not forget also what's happened to those in Redcar and Port Talbot too. All because Big Corp. Inc. would rather look after the dividends of their shareholders rather than the families who need to put bread on the table.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I Feel Dirty

      hmmm but your logic doesn't hold. Because if it did Vauxhall (owned by GM of the US) and Peugeot (French) wouldn't be there to start with! they'd be in he US and France!

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: I Feel Dirty

        You're correct. But the logic, of course, does hold - the examples don't. Dyson, for example, used to build their vacuums and washing machines in the UK. But they moved the washing machines outside of the UK for a reduction in the cost of manufacturing. However the price of them never reduced.

        HP Sauce, another UK business who had a factory in Birmingham, moved their manufacturing to Holland. Again, because it was cheaper.

        Finally you have the likes of British Gas and Vodafone who ran massive call centres here in the UK, then decided that was too expensive and moved them to India.

        So as wrong as I was regarding Peugeot, not so much Vauxhall as they were a British company, my logic stays the same.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: I Feel Dirty

          "So as wrong as I was regarding Peugeot"

          Not really. They took over Chrysler UK who'd taken over Rootes who were a British company.

        2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

          Re: I Feel Dirty

          And yet there is BT who seem to be moving in the opposite direction regarding Call Centres.

          Not everything is better done abroad you know.

    2. MJI Silver badge

      Re: I Feel Dirty

      Ryton

      As I have had Rootes group vehicles, this does resonate a little, but Chrysler UK did go bump and Peugeot took over the remains. They did not have to keep the whole lot open, but the rot set in when they stopped making the Rootes designs (The Alpine and Horribleison were total rubbish compared to the Avengers and Sunbeams)

      Sad but unexpected, but no worries, the modern Peugeots are not inspiring cars. Ssd for jobs and the rallying division, but going to French ownership whould screw things up.

      Ellesmere Port

      No idea why this cut back as my last GM car had an engine from there depite the car being assembled in Germany. But I look at a modern GM car and think - where did it go wrong? Nothing about them to make me want to buy one.

      Steel

      UK steel is high quality but not cheap, other comapies buying steel go for cheapest.

      British made steel is still used on the railways, by JLR.

      Solihul

      My current car was made there

    3. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

      Re: I Feel Dirty

      "If you look after your workforce in your own country, give them jobs that can pay, then that money goes straight back in to your economy and further produces jobs. Money breeds money."

      Why not just hand out moneys to people for doing nothing rather than make them toil hard and produce a product that doesn't sell or cost more than it can be sold for? Because that's what you are proposing.

      Don't you think that there was a reason why MG Rover went bust?

      1. Lamont Cranston

        Re: "Why not just hand out moneys to people for doing nothing"

        Isn't this the current Labour proposal for the Trident submarines?

        1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

          Re: "Why not just hand out moneys to people for doing nothing"

          "Isn't this the current Labour proposal for the Trident submarines?"

          They aren't actually doing anything at the moment other than "deterring", and I'm not sure who, in reality, is being deterred.

      2. Naselus Silver badge

        Re: I Feel Dirty

        "Don't you think that there was a reason why MG Rover went bust?"

        As I recall, the reason was because bosses treated it as a piggy bank and there was a massive scandal, with all the leadership being banned from holding directorships having paid themselves millions in bonuses as the company went down the swanny.

        But don't let what actually happened spoil your narrative of inefficient manufacturing and justified offshoring.

    4. Lars Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: I Feel Dirty

      Yes, but Trumpf is not a guy able to change that. Bernie speaks about the same problems and I would certainly trust him a lot more, and it was Obama who saved the auto industry in the USA.

      Also Hitler talked about making Germany great again but was a bastard all the same.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I Feel Dirty

      It's a lovely idea but it's flawed.

      Fatally.

      Bringing back industry that's better done elsewhere is a stupid idea, utterly pointless.

      The sad fact of life is that jobs only exist to make profit, if they don't make a profit then the workers might as well go home and wait for a handout to land in their bank account, it doesn't matter if it's in the form of JSA or government subsidy to the comapny they work for (and I'd rather it was to them directly, subsidy also lines the shareholder's pockets)

      What needs to happen is we become innovators, create new industry, new products, ones that can't be made cheaper elsewhere.

      And we need to keep on doing that because sooner or later China, India, Africa, wherever the newest developing economy is, will catch us up and gain the ability to make last year's new products, pushing us on the same old merry go round of subsidy, redundancy and collapse.

      This is why I will always argue the case for places like visitor centres at Jodrell Bank, Tim Peake's ISS mission, etc. etc. not because they're 'geek cool' (they are, hellishly so) but because they inspire people to do things, to want to become scientists, techies etc...

      Nothing more depressing than 'six generations of this family were xyz workers', that's saying you're a drone, no ambition, no drive, no future for your kids and if a town has 'traditional industry' then sorry, it's going to die.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well, with Trump as a local..

    .. the US has at least no need to outsource the manufacturing of bullshit. The country is positively awash with it.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    We hear about Trump all the time, how about someone with an actual plan:

    https://berniesanders.com/issues/creating-jobs-rebuilding-america/

    https://berniesanders.com/the-sanders-corporate-tax-reform-plan/

    Below may not be Bernie Sanders stance, but I expect I am far more pessimistic than he is and this is how I see things.

    Too Big to Fail Corps need to reeled in. If they won't play fair then Nations need to take over that infrastructure and run themselves. The whole system is a house of cards that appears near ready to collapse. It is well past time Nations started requiring jobs and taxes from Globo Corps that take income from them.

  27. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    BTW

    Who would have thought that Trump is a protectionist leftie?

    Pretty darn red in his views.

    I look forward to his five year plan.

    Will he ban industrial robots, since they take the jobs of workers? Especially foreign made such robots.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: BTW

      don't forget those 'self driving cars'. gotta think if all those drivers who will be out of a job.

      Sheesh.

    2. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

      Re: BTW

      "Who would have thought that Trump is a protectionist leftie?"

      I wouldn't. Protectionism is nationalist policy, not left-wing. It's also a policy that would be dumped milliseconds after Trump was elected because he wants to expand his business abroad. The Left is internationalist, and though Marx's Labour Theory of Value is not very good economics, it tends to suggest that the left wing approach would be to only permit the import of goods from countries that pay the workers as well as your own are paid. Yes, China, sell us as many iPhones as you like when your workforce gets a First World living standard.

      (I know it is economically impractical and in fact impossible).

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: BTW

        Obviously real theoretical Marxist communism is not nationalistic. But all actual implementation have been most nationalistic in practice. Some even called it so.

  28. SolidSquid

    Will Trump also be moving the manufacture of his ties and other clothing lines to the US? There's a few interviews now, starting with one with Letterman, where it's been pointed out he's manufacturing a lot of his products in China and Mexico

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      where does he get his hair manufactured?

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        HAirdrie, Strathclyde. welded from girders.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          ahhhh I thought it was Axminster carpets

      2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        His hair is actually 100% home made. And you can tell.

      3. Nehmo

        Forget the hair

        Quit it on the hair already. The _only_ relevance that has is, considering the wispy growth is probably implants, he has had vain surgical procedures. He can be ridiculed on that, but there has been plenty of that already.

        It's easy to attack Trump on serious issues, and that's where the focus should be.They way things are going, he can justly complain that people criticize him for meaningless nonsense.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    He's Negging

    "America is a poor nation... nobody respects us.....we can't defeat ISIS,....we're for sale on the cheap....America has fat hips....nobody will date her"!

    It sounds like negging, the trick of insulting a woman to lower her expectations so she will lower her standards. And you can see the Liberty uni lot lapping it up! Negging works folks, whether its a man with nothing to offer a woman, or a man with nothing to offer a country!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_wealth

    US is the number #1 wealthy country. The reason it has no employment is because that wealth is tied up in the top 1% as unproductive monetary assets invested abroad. If you move money down into the middle classes, then it will be used to open shops and factories.

    They can't move property offshore, but they can sell it to an offshore holding company, which is why land is turned into a money asset that can be shipped offshore driving up the property prices. (i.e. Trumps money source).

    Is the plan to defeat ISIS? I thought the plan was to arm the Syrian Rebels, and use ISIS as cover. Then Russia got involved, started *also* bombing ISIS, while really bombing the rebels. So now we're bombing ISIS, Russia is bombing the rebels, so that Assad will win. And we're so wrapped in our bullshit lies that we keep on this path but only half heartedly. At the end 'chemical weapons' Assad ends up in power, the man whose atrocities created the extremism! Putin will be laughing I guess.

    Take a look at where most of the red (Russian) air strikes are:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35162523

    Trump? He seems to have a very thin understanding of this, and combing over the issue won't fix it.

    But hey, nuanced understandings of complex situations don't win elections!..... You fat ugly slag America!

  30. Andrew Hurdle

    Thats the first sensible thing Ive heard him say! What a blinder - mate you are mustard.... think of all those little kids in Bangka Islands tin mine you will save. While you are at it - take back all those smug idiots in their stores all over the world.....

  31. jake Silver badge

    Hey, Trump ...

    Your own daughter was built in a communist, Eastern European factory ;-)

    Trump's a chump. I'd happily take a dump on him on national TV.

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

      1. Shades
      2. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: Hey, Trump ...Hey Jake

        Nice rant, Dan... except that Jake is 'Merikin.... lives out on a ranch somewhere in northernish CA.

  32. Grubby

    It's not as crazy as it sounds

    After reading the headline I thought WTF is he on about now but if you look at the root cause of the problem with companies making billions and not paying tax it comes down to companies shifting their operations around. Why not reduce tax for companies that are based in, and operate in the country. If you're based outside the country and have the bulk of your operations outside the country then you should pay a higher rate of tax. It comes down to what the tax is used for, the higher the rate of employment the smaller the state and therefor the smaller the tax income required, the more people out of work (because a company is mainly based outside the country) the larger the state and more tax is required. It would remove the ability to escape tax by moving your business off shore as to do so would mean you incur larger taxes, unless of course you choose not to sell in that country at all, which just creates room for another company to move in.

    1. TwoWolves
      Facepalm

      Re: It's not as crazy as it sounds

      China protects its markets and currency vigorously but Register readers ignore that and signal their virtue instead.

      It certainly is a very good idea but someone else needs to say it apparently.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's not as crazy as it sounds

        protectionism isn't good for everybody. China has the advantage of controlling its own people and economy very tightly they can "get a way with" doing a lot of stuff that democracies couldn't do, but chances are chickens will come home to roost one day

  33. jason 7

    Have the Republicans just finallly given up?

    I mean with all their candidates as they are, it must be just a reality show called 'Last Clown Standing'?

    The comedy value is incredible.

    I still reckon Trump is just filming some secret documentary on the while thing and will drop out a day before he has to fully commit.

  34. Crisp Silver badge

    Hang on Mr Trump...

    Does the USA even have the manufacturing capability for Apple to just up sticks and move their entire manufacturing process to america?

    Do they even have large scale microchip fabrication facilities over there? Are the hard drives made in America? Will Apple be able to source screens from an American manufacturer?

    Will Mr Trump be paying for all this himself?

    1. A_Noid

      Re: Hang on Mr Trump...

      Hey! We can make a bad toupee!

  35. scrubber
    Holmes

    Dear Donald,

    Comparative advantage.

    David Ricardo came up with that little concept in 1817 to explain why countries engaged in cross-border trade even if one was better at everything than another.

    I know you're going to "Make America Great Again", but you're not going to do it by forcing American companies to become less efficient and distorting the efficient allocation of resources.

  36. jason 7

    So Trump's master plan...

    ...is to turn the USA into the new North Korea?

    1. A_Noid

      Re: So Trump's master plan...

      North Korea makes iPhones?

  37. Jonathon Green

    I like Americans. They're funny...

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Difference (joke)

    What's the difference between the brain of an ant and the brain of DT?

  39. strum Silver badge

    The Candidate

    Back in the stone age, Robert Redford starred as a candidate. At the beginning of the campaign, RR worried about how he would act afterwards. His campaign manager gave him a 'guarantee'. It was a piece of paper which said "You lose".

    That's the deal with Trump. He isn't going to win, so he can say whatever the hell he wants. His audiences don't care, either - they'll cheer anything that sounds dramatic and unorthodox ('telling it like it is').

    Of course, in The Candidate, RR's character actually won - and didn't know what to do next.

    1. A_Noid

      Re: The Candidate

      I never thought of Republicans as stand up comics until they started trying to put Trump in office.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They'll just move offshore, when they fially run out of countries to dodge paying tax in, Tim Tessier-Ashpool Cook will move them into orbit.

  41. Mike Moyle Silver badge

    TheRump's plan to "make America great again"...

    "One idea to do so is a mooted 35 per cent tax on companies that choose to manufacture offshore."

    And would this be including the makers of the made-in-China Donald J. Trump men's clothing line...?

  42. lone_wolf

    made in america

    the fact of the matter is Apple did manufacture all it's products in the US. I am not 100% sure but i believe Steve Jobs was the one that started moving all manufacturing over to China.

  43. Lars Silver badge
    Happy

    Oh dear

    Some Americans on this thread should start to listen to Bernie Sanders on how the richest country in the world is so upset when some twats dear ask for a living wage starting as high as 15$ an hour, madness. complete madness. Think about the poor Walton family who only have as much wealth as the lazy 130 million bottom dwellers. Oh dear, what would happen to the poor family, they would no doubt be forced to move their business to China and take all the jobs with them.

    Please Americans don't fool yourself. "where to invade next" by Michael Moore has some hints too.

    Oh dear.

  44. Kwll

    On dinosaurs and other odd animals

    Why on earth are we still paying attention to this old trumpet?

    I mean, having absolutely no technology literacy, no idea on productive process, and no clue on how things work should be enough evidence for everyone to just walk away.

    Good luck Apple producing micro components in the USA:

    1) Try to get China to export enough prime materials (Neodymium, anyone?) to keep the pace of actual production.

    2) Try to have americans work at the same wage of chineses and still be able to live the american dream.

    3) Apple stuff is already IExpensive, wonder how big the loan would be to buy a laptop fully made in America!:)

    His words are so offensive to common sense to be beyond ridiculous.

    Cheers!

    Alessio

  45. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    The comedy goes on.

    Sarah Palin is backing the Trumpet. She who though Africa was a country. Yes really.

    1. jake Silver badge

      @anonymous boring coward

      "Sarah Palin is backing the Trumpet"

      Did you catch the press conference announcing this? Trump the Chump's shoulders were slumping, as if he had already lost ... and the grimace on his face reminded me of the look on my Great-Aunt's face the last time her husband farted, loudly, at a major family function.

      Surreal, really.

      1. Lars Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: @anonymous boring coward

        @jake "Sarah Palin is backing the Trumpet". Yes I had a look at it too but I just wasn't able to take it for more than about 2min when I realized she would go on and on. What was fairly obvious was that TA hasn't got much of a poker face unless he is at the "helm" himself. But while money doesn't smell nor do votes.

        However, some time ago I had a look, on Youtube, at a discussion about evolution and our brains. The boffin was asked if our brains are all similar. So how did he respond. "On this side we have brains like Einstein's and on the other side we have Sarah Palin's" using his left and right arm. The audience got it, no doubt about that.

        But when I have read all these comments. including my own, and I think, and believe, there is some sound combination of sarcasm and attempts towards humour in most the comments, it's also obvious that a reader might find the same comments ill spirited and rude. Especially when we write about topics like politics and religion.

        The fart, however, compared to both Palin and Trump, is more rewarding, interesting and normal.

        Years ago I took my old father home from a good dinner with the appropriate amount of brandy, top floor. In the crowded elevator down, he had to let it out, loud and clear with all possible spices. Oh my deity that was terrific, the damn elevator become the slowest moving object in the universe. I felt so damned embarrassed, but then I looked at his face and I realized there was still some guts left in him, he was silently smiling. We get softer when getting older, and so is that damn multipurpose muscle down there controlling important output. Intelligent design, not.

        In a situation like that, what you do is to turn your head and shout "who did that". Works every time, I do it all the time given an opportunity. Escalators are rather rubbish, better down than up then, however.

        And as they say, people need people, farting alone is a wast of joy.

        What, this was about Apple.

      2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: @anonymous boring coward

        No, I didn't see the actual video. I knew I couldn't take it.

        I tried just now, but after Palin came on, I had to stop it within about 5 seconds.

        I just don't have the cringe-resistance required for that sort of thing.

        Sorry.

  46. scan300

    Mac Pro is made in the USA

    Apple brought back manufacturing of the Mac Pro to the US in 2013. It took them some time to set up the supply chain and they chose a low volume, expensive product to make this happen.

  47. Laughing_Man

    Don't his line of suits get made in sweatshops in Bangladesh & China?

  48. JaitcH
    Unhappy

    Perhaps Trump can't / doesn't read newspapers

    Apple announced on 2013 November that its newest US manufacturing facility is slated to be built in Mesa, Arizona. Apple aims to create thousands of jobs and run the facility on 100 percent renewable energy.

    According to Arizona's governor's office, the facility will employ 700 people and will create 1,300 construction and management jobs.

  49. Mitoo Bobsworth

    People...

    Trump is a narcissistic fuckwit - by giving him publicity, you are feeding the monster.

    Stop it.

    NOW.

  50. This post has been deleted by its author

  51. TRT Silver badge

    Definition of a palindrome...

    a word, phrase or sentence that reads the same backwards as forwards.

    Whereas a Palin-drome is just backwards.

  52. A_Noid

    And the Devil said; "Who needs the Anti-Christ when I have Trump?" He'll get us WW III in no time!

  53. Brian Allan

    Oh wow! Just think of all the uneducated Americans this would put to work at maybe $1/hour... Oh, wait, isn't there something about a minimum wage in the USA!? And what about all the unemployed union members that might want $50-75/hour to do this!?

    Oh well, let's just let the Chinese, etc. do it!

  54. Colin Bain

    Higher paying service jobs?

    Surely the highest paying jobs were in manufacturing in the good old days of secure employment and when a pension plan didn't mean it would be stolen from you in retirement. And the financial services plan for the UK concentrated the highest paying jobs into the SE and beggared the rest of the UK. Oh, and the higher amounts of renumeration went offshore and untaxed leading to the ludicrous situation of the govt begging for jobs and giving away the tax they do get from the lowest paid zero hour contract slaves of the "service" industry. And they can't apparently afford to get the tax the large companies actually show they owe. Pfff!

  55. Nehmo

    Clothing Made in China by Trump

    Trump said he's "always been very open about" where his products are manufactured, but he just claimed to not know where the shirts were manufactured. https://youtu.be/SYoOPgeTMQc?t=45s .

    Trump makes his own ties in China. Letterman exposes him in the clip.

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