back to article Microsoft in 2015: Mobile disasters, Windows 10 and heads in the clouds

The last twelve months have been pivotal for Microsoft, the company which once promised to put a PC on every desk but now settles for a vague mission statement about “achieve more”. The new mission statement was announced by CEO Satya Nadella in June, replacing Ballmer’s 2013 commitment to “a family of devices and services". …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    I think Microsoft's problem is that the investment industry expects companies to grow indefinitely. What do you do when you've reached market saturation and there are already strong competitors in related fields where you might otherwise expect to make a sideways move?

    1. kryptylomese

      The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

      Microsoft's problem is that they have been left behind - they thought they could always sell shit software to people but then alternatives came along and far less people are interested in their offerings.

      Part of the solution is simple - they just need to rebuild their operating systems around Linux (with their own proprietary code, their version of WINE would be 100% compatible) and make the majority of their code open source.

      With the above solution, they would be competing on a level plain with regards to performance and scalability etc and at the same time be able to offer they integrated Microsoft experience.

      There is only one problem though - Microsoft Office would still hand and crash so users would still be migrating away unless that too was open source and thus they could lever the software fixes from the community (they would have to suffer a lot of ridicule though regarding the quality of their code).

      1. Teiwaz Silver badge

        Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

        Microsoft Windows as a 'linux desktop distro?

        There's at least a dozen desktop distros now, you really want them to slide into obscurity, don't you?

        1. kryptylomese

          Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

          Obscure like MAC operating system became when it switched to BSD?

          There is no reason why Windows would look any different it would just work SO much better with a Linux subsystem and it would be cheaper for MS to maintain and develop on top of.

          1. Joerg

            Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

            You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

            WindowsNT is VMS. The VMS OS created to run on Dec Alpha CPUs. It was even better than most UNIXes.

            And to fix the mess they did with Windows Vista Microsoft had to pay a lot of money to VMS designers to build Windows7. And Windows7 and WinowsServer2008 were excellent, the best WindowNT systems to date.

            Then the Metro/ModernUI nonsense era arrived at Microsoft and Windows8.x happened and then even worse under the Indian CEO the atrocious spyware ridden Windows10=8.2 was born which proved that Ballmer wasn't the worst that could have happened to Microsoft.

            Linux is not even a true real UNIX. It is just an hack, a shallow messed up copy of UNIX subsystems.

            BSD systems are true real UNIX systems. Which includes Apple OS X

            1. kryptylomese

              Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

              I would like you to qualify in what way VMS OS is better than Linux but lets just say for arguments sake that it is, Windows NT was shit compared with Linux and where the hell is VMS OS now?

              But you are right about one thing - Linux is most definitely NOT a true UNIX, it is MUCH better and runs on the top 500 Supercomputers in the world, which UNIX and BSD and not Windows are NOT good enough to run on.

              1. azaks

                Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

                I didn't believe you at first but the caps WON ME OVER.

                I'm just a little disappointed that you didn't write:

                "coz Linux is SO MUCH BETTERER..."

            2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
              Thumb Down

              Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

              The VMS OS created to run on Dec Alpha CPUs.

              LOLNO

              BSD systems are true real UNIX systems.

              Keeper of the flame, we shall....

              No wait, this is just bait.

            3. Anonymous Bosch

              Re: The game is up Microsoft

              Ever hear of a VAX? Way older than Alphas. VMS was coded in a mix of languages including BLISS.

              Windows NT was designed by David Cutter(sp?) but was not a port of VMS. In VMS, graphics drivers were NOT run at kernel level.

              Windows NT was also ruined by marketing and trying to add features without the time to implement them well.

              Merry Christmas

              Think about the things he later said.

              1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

                Re: The game is up Microsoft

                > Windows NT was designed by David Cutter(sp?) but was not a port of VMS. In VMS,

                No, but it did implement many features of the VMS replacement that Cutler had designed when at DEC. Microsoft wound up paying $150million or so in settlement to avoid it going to court.

                """DEC also believed he brought Mica's code to Microsoft and sued.[7] Microsoft eventually paid US$150 million and agreed to support DEC's Alpha CPU chip in NT."""

                > graphics drivers were NOT run at kernel level.

                Cutler knew that, but was overruled later.

                """GDI

                The Graphics Device Interface is responsible for tasks such as drawing lines and curves, rendering fonts and handling palettes. The Windows NT 3.x series of releases had placed the GDI component in the user-mode Client/Server Runtime Subsystem, but this was moved into kernel mode with Windows NT 4.0 to improve graphics performance.[21] """

              2. Charles Manning

                re: Windows NT was also ruined by marketing

                Many of the features were explicitly added as "bait and switch" features to lure people into NT.

                Remember that in the beginning (before XP), NT was the server OS and Win 95 the desktop OS.

                The competition for NT was the various *nix OSs out there including SCO. Thus, MS added various *nix-like features to NT to aid porting application code from *nix to NT. Examples of these are a POSIX layer and pushable streams module support.

                But these were very badly implemented - on purpose. Once middleware vendors had drunk the Kool Aid and believed the promises and committed to making their products for NT there was no going back. The POSIX layer sucked (as did the pushable streams modules) so the middleware vendors had to rewrite using NT native calls.

                Soon after that Microsoft killed the portability support because nobody used it.

                1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                  Re: re: Windows NT was also ruined by marketing

                  Remember that in the beginning (before XP), NT was the server OS and Win 95 the desktop OS.

                  So you believe that those of us running NT4 workstation were really running Win95? Truly?

                  1. David Roberts

                    Re: re: Windows NT was also ruined by marketing

                    IIRC the only difference between NT Server and NT Workstation was a registry hack that you had to pay MS for (or not, if you fancied a bit of DIY).

                    NT should have been a clean start, leaving behind all the old "bypass the OS and go direct to hardware because performance" crap that made earlier OS versions such a problem.

                    However, as indicated elsewhere, traditional MS culture managed to screw up a promising beginning.

                    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                      Re: re: Windows NT was also ruined by marketing

                      NT should have been a clean start, leaving behind all the old "bypass the OS and go direct to hardware because performance" crap that made earlier OS versions such a problem.

                      The initial release of NT, 3.5 was "a clean start" and kept GDI out of kernel mode. The move of GDI into kernel mode was made with the introduction of NT 4. This improved system responsiveness at the expense of some loss of stability. There were few complaints about the change that had been made as a result of criticism of NT 3.5's poor graphics performance. In practice, NT 4 was much more stable than Win 95 and more than good enough.

                      NT 4's stability came at the expense of needing more considerably more RAM than Win95. My NT 4 workstation was maxed out to 32 MB and because I used decent video adapters/drivers, experienced very few stability problems. I still have my original ATI Mach 64 video adapter in the spares box. It cost as much as the whitebox 66 MHz 486 it was paired with. Together they cost ~$AU6,000, a lot in today's dollars, never mind mid-90s dollars. The RAM and VRAM were responsible for a very large slice of those dollars.

                      NT4 server came with various administrative tools (User Manager for Domains, Server Manager and Domain Name Service Manager for example) that were absent from NT 4 workstation, so the differences were not merely "a registry hack".

                  2. Anonymous Coward
                    Pint

                    Re: re: Windows NT was also ruined by marketing

                    NT4 workstation was actually NT4 server. In workstation a quick registry hack turned workstation into server.

                    But in those days a workstation was way more powerful than a desktop. In that respect he is right. Windows 95 was the desktop client. And it was with 95 that I ditched windows. The hell of installing it with 21 or 22 floppies will stay with me for life!

                    A pint because the memory has made me decide time for the pub...

                    Edit: Bollocks I have just noticed someone elsie has beaten me to mentioning the hack. Now I need to double the amount of pints I'll be drinking, Damn...

                2. Tom 13

                  Re: NT was the server OS and Win 95 the desktop OS.

                  Not quite.

                  NT was the commercial product and Win95 was supposed to be the consumer product. They had NT desktops for at least 4 and I think as far back as 3.5. But the commercial world preferred Win95 to the NT desktops so the model didn't take off. That gave the marketing department the leverage to backport Win95 features into NT for XP.

                  I will grant bad coding is at the heart of all the MS problems in that time period. These days it seems to me more of a fingers in ears whilst singing "Nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah! I can't hear you!"

                3. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

                  Re: re: Windows NT was also ruined by marketing

                  The competition for NT was the various *nix OSs out there including SCO. Thus, MS added various *nix-like features to NT to aid porting application code from *nix to NT. Examples of these are a POSIX layer and pushable streams module support.

                  The POSIX subsystem was included in NT because it was a US Federal Government requirement at the time. (It was a FIPS requirement, though I don't have the exact number handy.) It would have been silly for Microsoft to bar NT from the Federal market by omitting it, particularly since it wasn't hard to build; it only had to be POSIX.1.

                  The POSIX subsystem was pretty basic and never really optimized. After Microsoft killed it off (post Win2K), though, they bought Interix (formerly OpenNT, from Softway Systems) and made it available as Services for UNIX. It was a much better UNIX-on-Windows, particularly with SFU 3.5, which had decent pthreads support, etc.

            4. Chemist

              Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

              "The VMS OS created to run on Dec Alpha CPUs. It was even better than most UNIXes."

              Having written code for VAX/VMS and for Alphas I can tell you your chronology is wrong.

              VAX ~~mid-70s

              Alpha ~ 1990

            5. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

              Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

              Er but....

              WindowsNT is VMS. - Nope - It was originally intended to be but the marketing people knackered it(IMHO). If it is where is the filesystem that handles file versioning then? VMS V3.0 (if not earlier) had it.

              The VMS OS created to run on Dec Alpha CPUs. - nope It was created for the VAX 11-780 circa 1975/76

              It was even better than most UNIXes. - Possibly

              so in summary, You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

              I worked for Dec from 1978 to 1999 so I probably have a better grasp of the DEC facts that you.

              1. Joerg

                Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

                Hey, fake DEC employee when you read something on Wikipedia better read it the right way.

                The DEC Alpha version of VMS was the one that WindowsNT originated from. Not the ancient legacy VAX/VMS releases.

                "Port to DEC Alpha

                The VMS port to Alpha resulted in the creation of a second and separate source code libraries (based on a source code management tool known as VDE) for the VAX 32-bit source code library and a second and new source code library for the Alpha (and the subsequent Itanium port) 64-bit architectures. 1992 saw the release of the first version of OpenVMS for Alpha AXP systems, designated OpenVMS AXP V1.0. The decision to use the 1.x version numbering stream for the pre-production quality releases of OpenVMS AXP caused confusion for some customers and was not repeated in the next platform port to the Itanium.

                In 1994, with the release of OpenVMS version 6.1, feature (and version number) parity between the VAX and Alpha variants was achieved. This was the so-called Functional Equivalence[24] release, in the marketing materials of the time. Some features were missing however, e.g. based shareable images, which were implemented in later versions. Subsequent version numberings for the VAX and Alpha variants of the product have remained consistent through V7.3, though Alpha subsequently diverged with the availability of the V8.2 and V8.3 releases.[25]"

                1. Stoneshop Silver badge
                  FAIL

                  Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

                  Hey, fake DEC employee when you read something on Wikipedia better read it the right way.

                  The DEC Alpha version of VMS was the one that WindowsNT originated from.

                  And everything you read on the Internet (including Wackypedia) is true.

                  In that case there's this bridge for you to buy. Low mileage, first owner, well maintained.

                  Windows NT WAS NOT based on VMS. There's stuff I recognise as being kind of inspired by VMS, IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED by my right hand impacting my forehead to understrike the exhortation "And if they actually copied this, why the bloody hell have they left out ... " followed by a lengthy list of useful features related to it.

                  DEC #201462

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

                  I didn't read any Wikipedia article the wrong way. I didn't need to. I was really employed by DEC in Reading. (Started in Arkwright Road).

                  For me, VMS is VMS is VMS regardless of the platform. So what if there was a different code base. Functionally, it was identical. If it wasn't then how come you could have mixed architecture Clusters? Clusters made up of VAXen and Alphas.

                  I even wrote device drivers from time to time.

                  I am most certainly not a fake DEC Employee as you put it.

                  If I was how could I start drawing my Pension from HP (Digital Scheme) next year.

            6. illiad

              Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

              Joerg - only a few know what you are talking about... do tell, what is the desktop share of Unix???

              somewhere here??????

              https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

            7. Stoneshop Silver badge
              FAIL

              Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

              You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

              WindowsNT is VMS. The VMS OS created to run on Dec Alpha CPUs. It was even better than most UNIXes.

              And you have no clue either.

              VMS was created for the (32 bit) VAX processor. Then, with the development of the Alpha processor, VMS was ported to that architecture and extended to 64 bit.

              Cutler did some work on VMS, but his group's main focus was PRISM/MICA, and when that was cancelled he took his toys and went to MS

              NT is DEFINITELY NOT VMS, and anyone who's worked with both will acknowledge that.

            8. Pompous Git Silver badge

              Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

              WindowsNT is VMS.

              It would appear that Mark Russinovich agrees:

              Windows NT and VMS: The Rest of the Story

              http://windowsitpro.com/windows-client/windows-nt-and-vms-rest-story

              1. Stoneshop Silver badge

                Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

                http://windowsitpro.com/windows-client/windows-nt-and-vms-rest-story

                He lists a couple of similarities between VMS and NT, but he doesn't list how different these superficial similarities are under the hood (e.g. VMS has four process modes, NT just two) or whether the concepts behind these similarities are also present in other OSes of that time, just implemented more or less differently. In other words, common OS design concepts.

                And just like there is stuff from RSX and other DEC OSes in VMS, PRISM will have had a recognisable VMS hallmark, with NT again being PRISM-influenced.

          2. DougS Silver badge

            @kryptylomese

            I want some of what you've been smoking for Christmas.

            I'm no fan of Microsoft, and I've been running a Linux desktop since the late 90s, but I think your plan is stupid. Windows is not way behind in scalability, other than on extremely large servers (and the market share of servers with hundreds of cores is not large enough to change Windows like that) If you think it, show your evidence. Benchmarks on sites that run software that is available on both Windows, Mac and Linux show otherwise - the underlying OS has very little influence on performance except for stuff where the drivers are heavily used (primarily graphics, where open source drivers are generally behind Windows)

            Microsoft is not going to gain any customers by doing this, so why invest a billion dollars or whatever it would cost to do it? There's no benefit to Microsoft, no benefit to its customers, and risk that it makes the world easier for Linux or BSD or whatever they chose for their new kernel.

            1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

              Re: @kryptylomese

              Quote

              Windows is not way behind in scalability

              That might be true however with their move to charing per core will make scaling it up an awful lot more expensive.

              Then there is the long awaited move to OS Subscriptions. This will in all likelyhood piss a lot of users off royally.

              Things don't look good for the guys from Redmond.

              Note that I didn't even start on the well trodden ground here that is the hate for Windows 10.

              1. kryptylomese

                Re: @kryptylomese

                It was not me that said that "Windows is not far behind in terms of scalability" - Windows is WAY behind in terms of scalability (please just compare the specs for the number of CPU's Linux can handle vs Windows or the limitations of Windows file systems compared with Linux. Windows is a toy and a crap one at that!

              2. DougS Silver badge

                Re: @kryptylomese

                That might be true however with their move to charing per core will make scaling it up an awful lot more expensive.

                That may be true, but it isn't an argument that Microsoft should switch to an open source core for Windows. They charge those prices because they can, and their customers are (at least most of them, most likely) willing to pay it. If they saved money by using more open source they aren't going to pass the savings on to you.

            2. kryptylomese

              Re: @kryptylomese

              I had my first computer in 1978 so you having desktop PC's since the 90's is not exactly a big wow to me.

              Yep, you are a typical Windows gaming guy and are only thinking in terms of Desktop. Linux "desktop" is just as powerful as Linux "server" because they are the same thing and scale beyond Enterprise all the way to the Top500 supercomputer list. Games do run better on Linux as you would know if you had tried it - hey at least it is very unlikely to crash on Linux or be infected with malware.

              Linux can utilise nVidia, ATI and anyone else's proprietary drivers so what are talking about?

              Microsoft would gain a lot by doing this because their product range would be built on top of solid foundations instead of the shit that it is built on now.

              You have to understand that Microsoft are failing in the Server market with their operating system - it is a fact! And this means that the technology that transfers from the server development team is diminishing.

              Don't be scared of Linux - it is SO much better than Windows and one day you will see that.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: @kryptylomese

                I've been into computers since Left 4 Dead 2 came out and I know OSX is the best OS.

              2. DougS Silver badge

                Re: @kryptylomese

                I had my first computer in 1978 so you having desktop PC's since the 90's is not exactly a big wow to me.

                Yep, you are a typical Windows gaming guy and are only thinking in terms of Desktop.

                You really are a special brand of moron, aren't you, who makes baseless claims and then when someone calls him on it, makes completely incoherent retorts in response. Either that or you lack a basic ability to read, since I quite clearly said I'd been running a Linux desktop since the 90s, so it is pretty obvious I'm not a "typical Windows gaming guy". If you don't even bother to read what people write in response to your claims, please do us all a favor and don't bother to respond either.

                1. kryptylomese

                  Re: @kryptylomese

                  My mistake I misread!

                  However, I worked for BMC software and they have run performance analysis of Linux,Windows and Mac and found that the order listed represents the order of performance (Linux came out on top by some margin).

                  1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                    Re: @kryptylomese

                    However, I worked for BMC software and they have run performance analysis of Linux,Windows and Mac and found that the order listed represents the order of performance (Linux came out on top by some margin).

                    Open GL performance is Windows, OSX, Ubuntu with Windows fastest. See:

                    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel_sandy_threesome&num=1

                    1. kryptylomese

                      Re: @kryptylomese

                      I have to concede that the nVdia drivers for Windows may be better in those tests but you should do more research before posting:-

                      Linux ATI drivers are better and therefore Open GL performance is better than Windows

                      http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_cat_winlin2014&num=1

                      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                        Re: @kryptylomese

                        Linux ATI drivers are better and therefore Open GL performance is better than Windows

                        Unfortunately, that doesn't address the issues that I have with running Civ V at high res and detail. However, the link you provide shows open source driver running slower than ATI driver. So I am about to ditch the recommended xserver-xorg-video-ati. Your earlier claim that it was a problem with WINE proved incorrect. The game still runs with WINE uninstalled!

                        Also Ars Technica ran some comparisons between Steam games on Linux versus Windows and found that they ran slower on Linux. The reviewer attributed this to Open GL.

                        http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/11/ars-benchmarks-show-significant-performance-hit-for-steamos-gaming/

                        1. Pompous Git Silver badge
                          Happy

                          Re: @kryptylomese

                          Now running the ATI driver and the terrain detail/leader scenes problems are vanquished. Scrolling the map is definitely showing an inferior frame rate when compared to Windows, but the improvements are welcome.

            3. Richard Plinston Silver badge

              Re: @kryptylomese

              > Windows is not way behind in scalability,

              Scalability goes both ways. Microsoft is trying to scale down to IoT but it requires at least a Raspberry Pi 2 (it is alleged that Microsoft paid the foundation to build these) and then can't do more than run a single UWP app (no OS GUI), while Linux runs on a Pi 1 or Zero with a full GUI and can run as a server and/or full desktop and/or development.

              > other than on extremely large servers (and the market share of servers with hundreds of cores is not large enough to change Windows like that) If you think it, show your evidence.

              With per core pricing the revenue would be enormous from supercomputers, which is one reason that it is only used when Microsoft subsidises it. But Windows only runs on Intel (and a few ARM SoCs) currently and most of the really big systems are mostly not Intel. Even those on Intel use interconnects that are beyond what Windows can do.

              Linux scales from the bottom (RPiZero) to the top (Tihane 2). Windows is _way_ behind that*.

              *The top Windows HPC (a special development and not the usual Windows) is at number 94 on the top 500 and is about 1% or the performance of the top of the list. There is only one other in the top 500.

          3. JLV Silver badge

            Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

            Don't be daft. Apple, with several failed attempts at rolling a successor to OS 9, really didn't have much of a choice but a desperate gamble on BSD. Which, incidentally, has no GPL "show your source code" requirements. Neither condition applies to your little fantasy.

            No disrespect to Linux intended. It has shown its value many times over. Linux on Azure? That makes sense, for those who want Azure. More interop? Great!

            Windows on Linux? Via Wine 8-/ ? Why?

            'sides, monoculture are rarely a good thing. Linux and users benefits from the competition.

          4. azaks

            Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

            >> kryptylomese

            I have seen you post this same nonsense at least half a dozen times before (the truly bizarre ones tend to stick out). Every time, you have been met with ridicule, and I don't recall anyone ever supporting your suggestion. Please go and find someone who works in IT, and ask them why this is a really, really stupid idea.

            Reading your other posts, the desperation for your hobby OS to reign supreme on the desktop is obvious. There are many ways that this could happen (but most likely won't), but the most imaginative sci-fi author could not come up with a more far fetched scenario than this one.

        2. itzman

          Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

          Mmm. Form a linux perspective, the usefulness of Microsoft would be to allow linux users to actually run windows code.

          And that would be worth having. A library set that would allow some form of copy protection and windows apps to run *under linux window management rather as wine does

      2. Captain DaFt

        Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

        "Part of the solution is simple - they just need to rebuild their operating systems around Linux (with their own proprietary code,"

        Problem is, from what I've heard, there's nothing wrong with the NT kernel Windows is built on. It's all the cruft they've piled on top of it, bad decisions, and "proprietary code" that make up much of the problem with it.

        So it wouldn't matter what kernel it's based on, NT, Linux, BSD, whatever. They've built a ramshackle structure on a good foundation, and changing the foundation isn't the answer.

        1. kryptylomese

          Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

          Linux kernel is far better optimised than NT so you heard wrong

        2. Tom 13

          Re: there's nothing wrong with the NT kernel Windows is built on.

          No, there are problems in the kernel too. IIRC they're still running some stuff there that ought to be out a couple of layers, and they do it to gain speed. As a result they have some potential security issues. Granted the cruft on top is an even larger problem, but the Linux kernel is better developed.

      3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

        Linux is moving to be more Windows like and less Unix like so maybe the two will meet in the middle.

        1. kryptylomese

          Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

          citation needed - you are suggesting that Linux is going becoming more shit and you are hoping that Windows gets better (you are a silly person)

        2. itzman

          Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

          Linux is moving to be more Windows like and less Unix like

          Rather I think that Linux being a solid foundation, is now looking at the ergonomics and user aspects and copying what worked well in windows while dutifully avoiding (most of) what didn't.

          It is a phenomenally good desktop system these days.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

            "copying what worked well in windows while dutifully avoiding (most of) what didn't."

            Binary logs?

            The many-tentacled monster that is systemd?

          2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

            Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

            The most annoying aspect of all versions of Winbloat I have displeasure of using has been updating the OS and applications. It is unusually for an update not to require a reboot and it is a pain to run down all the miscellaneous application updates. With Linux, updates rarely require a reboot and updates are centralized through the repository.

            As far as GUIs, XEROX PARC research showed the wimp interface to be the best balanced for a desktop or laptop. There are only a few ways to implement this users will tolerate. As long as the GUI allows users to customize what they need to and consistent you will have a solid GUI.

            1. Whistlerspa

              Re: Linux updates rarely need reboots

              Didn't used to but seem to be needing them more frequently lately.

              ( running Ubuntu 14.04 64 bit)

        3. Richard Plinston Silver badge

          Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

          > Linux is moving to be more Windows like and less Unix like

          Except Linux (and Apple) does it first.

          Linux moves in many directions: Ubuntu (Unity) one way, Fedora (Gnome 3) another, KDE adds stuff the others don't have. Ubuntu adds desktop ability to phones. Raspian (LXDE) runs on minimal hardware.

          And they do it well before Windows copies them. It is just that you only notice features when Windows gets them and think they are something new. You probably think that multiple virtual screens was copied by Linux from Windows!!

          I have no idea what you think is 'less Unix like'. Possibly you are trying to say that Linux today is less like what was available 20 years ago (CDE).

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

            Except Linux (and Apple) does it first.

            Except when they don't. When Windows NT used NTFS, a journaling file system, Linux used ext2, a non-journaling file system. Apple got Truetype fonts first, followed closely by Windows, but using Truetype on Linux was a PITA a decade ago. See:

            http://www.iitk.ac.in/LDP/HOWTO/archived/FDU/

            1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

              Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

              > Windows NT used NTFS, a journaling file system,

              NTFS was not the first journalising file system, not by a long way.

              1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

                NTFS was not the first journalising file system, not by a long way.

                Where did I say it was? Reiser FS, the first journaling file system in the Linux kernel, wasn't included until version 2.4.1. ReiserFS was the default file system in Novell's SUSE Linux that I ran on my home server around that time. Personally, I thought NTFS the better FS and would have been better still if Helen Custer had been listened to more carefully.

                http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Windows-NT-File-System/dp/155615660X

                1. kryptylomese

                  Re: The game is up Microsoft - your code is crap!

                  "Personally, I thought NTFS the better FS " - is that when you were running defrag regularly which is a great way to spend your time?

        4. illiad

          Re: The game is up ( Linux is moving to be more Windows like)

          the difference is you CAN change the shell, and as that is *separate*, if it crashes you just restart it! (no reboot needed!!!)

    2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Headmaster

      "Investors" may think this or that but who cares?

      Microsoft's problem is that it had the delusion that it could take over the world by hook or by crook (being powered by The Insufferable Ballmer for a long time didn't help) and roll over anything else out there. In parallel. With contraptions that were not even sure to work or appeal.

      Then it found that the world is kinda vast and that people don't particularly care for the Microsoft brand, which has a distinct association with ... well, used carpets spring to mind.

      It's like a hegemonic power deciding to retreat after a failed wintry Moscow expedition to concentrate on managing Europe instead.

    3. Mikel

      Since they peaked 15 years ago, you may be the last person on Earth to notice this.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        @Mikel

        I assume "They" is MS, but to which "you" and which "this" were you referring?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Laughably absent is any mention of their failed Xbox one, for which even Microsoft are now too ashamed to even mention sales (or even shipped) numbers.

        http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/10/24/microsoft-no-longer-cares-to-tell-us-how-many-xbox-ones-its-sold/

        1/4 of PS4 sales is the industry best guess, with it 1/2 in the US and 1/6 elsewhere.

        It losing over $3.5bn a year ($1.5bn more than xbox 360) and a very likely candidate for sale of for the chop

    4. itzman

      Investment?

      What do you do when you've reached market saturation and there are already strong competitors in related fields where you might otherwise expect to make a sideways move?

      You become a cash cow.

      You need little investment and you generate huge cashflow, and pay the investors back, finally.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Investment?

        "You become a cash cow.

        You need little investment and you generate huge cashflow, and pay the investors back, finally."

        That's what to do. But then all those analysts set growth targets.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Windows

      @Doctor

      The urge for 'indefinite grow' is most certainly part of the problem, but it's not something exclusive to Microsoft. Microsoft's real problem is their outdated and plain out dangerous business model. They still operate as if they can dominate the market, just look at the way they're trying to push Windows 10 down our throats. But instead of dominating they're fracturing. And they do this on all levels. With fracturing I'm referring to actually pushing people away.

      XBox One? The pre-launch was a disaster, maybe spared a bit by some smart advertising and propaganda about reversed decisions, but damage has been done. Not just that: it also showed us just how desperate Microsoft seems to be with securing revenue (now referring to their initial attempts at blocking any way for players to sell used games).

      Visual Studio? 2012 just showed us how much Microsoft cares about its developers: not that much. Basically they introduced dozens of problems (stripping color away and creating an awkward interface) which the community partly solved themselves. Of course Microsoft's official solution was presenting us with an offer to buy into VS2013. And right now it's plain out obvious what the real idea is: a service model. You don't pay for your license anymore: you rent a license.

      Windows Phone? Just how exactly are you going to appeal to the geeks and fans (those are the players you need; those will advocate your product!) if you require them to cough up E 100,- / $ 100,- for merely getting the right to hack their own phone (just so we're clear: hacking as in coding: controlling your phone straight from within Visual Studio or even cooler: PowerShell).

      And that is happening all over the place. Visual Studio (though there is an opt-out, and you can also pick up the free Community version), XBox (you need a subscription before you can play online games), Office (the main focus sits on 365; the subscription model) and we even see this slowly surfacing in Windows. Windows Phone? Yeah, eventually Microsoft realized the obvious and allowed anyone to apply for a phone unlock free of charge. Just too bad that it happened 3 - 4 years later, when most geeks (your's truly included) had already moved on.

      The real problem? Given Microsoft's history and it's inability to listen to its customers, how feasible do you think it is for people to buy into this? Because although it may sound appealing: only pay for what you use, there is a dark downside. The risk with most online contents and services: the moment they pull the plug (even if unintended) then it's hasta la vista, baby. Now you're paying for something which doesn't work anymore.

      We've seen this happening several times in 2015 with Office 365 and Azure. Small outages, maybe, but an outage still. And although we may think it's small because some "only" lasted a few hours: those hours can be crucial for someone who needs to get some work done ASAP. It's always easy to relativate things if they don't directly affect you.

      Instead of trying to squeeze money out of everything they can think of Microsoft should try to get their act together. In my opinion Microsoft has a huge potential when it comes to software, they have some state of the art technology which can be plain out impressive. But if they don't make sure that it actually appeals to their customers then all of that potential is useless.

      Use the best tool for the job, instead of trying to group it all together in some weird hybrid form. A subscription model can work; but not with everything they sell. A touch based environment can work, but not if you force it down the desktops, etc, etc.

      Microsoft needs to get their act together in 2016, otherwise I fear that we may see some very strange developments happen.

    6. Steve Channell
      Windows

      2016 is shapping up to be the crunch year

      2015 was the year Microsoft understood that it was royally shafted by Nokia in a vain attempt to keep in the mobile race, but that has stopped: MS refused to stump up more cash to port HERE Maps to the new Windows 10 kernel (the only functional upgrade for a Nokia Lumia 930 is Android).

      With full acceptance that Linux has won in hand-held, and won in HPC, MS faces the same choice that all proprietary OS vendors have faced before, whether to cut costs for a legacy licencing outfit or be bold to regain leadership.

      In 2016 that bold choice will be to open-source the NT kernel as a container kernel to compete with Core OS.. few will stop paying for full-fat Windows but it is the only way to avoid the fate of {Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control-Data, Honeywell} as a BUNCH of losers

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Microsoft ... was royally shafted by Nokia

        That's a novel, even unique, interpretation of what happened between Nokia and Microsoft.

        Nokia was ripped to shreds by Microsoft, who then failed to properly capitalise on their ownership of Nokia's entrails.

    7. ben_myers

      Indefinite Growth is a Ponzi Scheme

      It's not just the investment industry. Economists, too, keep braying about how important growth is. Growth in everything. Growth in population. Growth in revenue. Growth forever and ever is nothing more than a very big Ponzi scheme. Except that in the original Ponzi schemes, people lose only money. In the growth Ponzi scheme, people lose lives whenever the finite limits of some resource are reached, whether that resource is water, oil, food, electricity, or some other widely consumed commodity.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The glowing references to W10 seem strangely at odds with the general discontent expressed by many in the Windows techie community. MS is promoting a move to Linux - but not as the author envisages.

    1. kryptylomese

      I was talking about both Windows server as well as Windows desktop - a Linux base would improve both of them no end. Of course you are sales focused but seem to be blind to the Windows server sales diminishing rapidly. I was not envisaging, I was offering a solution to the problem of their company dying.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge

      windows 10 is NOT well received!

      I, too, found those 'glowing references to W10' to be a bit NAUSEATING, and NOT consistent with MY experience.

      Like Windows "Ape" (8) and "Ape++" (8.1), Sinofsky's vision of fat-finger-friendly "phone on a desktop" is a complete CLUSTER-BLANK when it comes to the user base. 8 and 8.1 had less than 20% of users prior to 10 showing up, and it's been around 5 months, and only about 10% of desktop and laptop/notebook users are now using Windows 10, despite it being a FREE upgrade. The majority of 10 users seem to have MOSTLY absorbed the Windows 8.1 and 8.0 users from before. And Windows 7 is still hovering in the mid 40% range of users, according to what I see on statcounter.com . Granted, those only reflect usage on web sites THEY monitor, and can easily be thrown out of whack [in favor of 10] when people DOWNLOAD SOFTWARE [or perhaps, get windows updates] to install on this "new" system. Or, if Microsoft deliberately leaves a pile of 10 machines "slamming" the internet on the weekend...

      Windows 10 has EVERYTHING wrong with it that "Ape" had, and then some. It's "fat finger friendly" and you can't 'narrow things back up' again. The "the METRO" screens are HIDEOUS looking, as compared to a 3D Skeumorphic "cool look" of 7, or even XP. Replacing "control panel" with "the METRO" 'Settings' seriously complicates EVERYTHING you used to do easily, with a tabbed dialog box, from a single point. And I really do NOT like "the flat look" reminiscent of Windows 1.01 from 1985. Remember how Windows 3.0 and it's 3D skeumorphic look BEAT IBM's OS/2 and made Windows POPULAR? Well Sinofsky did THE OPPOSITE and LOOK WHAT HAPPENED! Results ARE predictable. The "eye candy" of 3D skeumorphic SELLS the OS!

      And don't EVEN get me started on the ADWARE and SPYWARE. I did a fresh install of the November build of 10, to test my own applications, and the new "Start Thing" stretched about 800 pixels wide on a 1024x768 VM display, FILLED with "animated advertisement" LIVE TILES.

      THAT is *NOT* what *I* want on *MY* computer! *MY* computer is *NOT* like the TV screens from 'Idiocracy', a tiny picture surrounded by ads taking up more than half of the total screen real estate!

      And let us NOT forget the 'GWX' strong-arming. Not so long ago, there was an article here showing how Microsoft gave you two choices: "Upgrade now" or "Upgrade tonight". Some "choice".

      And DESPITE the strong-arming, only about 10% of statcounter traffic is Windows 10!

      Ya THINK that MAYBE it's NOT SO POPULAR? NOT SO WELL RECEIVED?

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: windows 10 is NOT well received!

        Ya THINK that MAYBE it's NOT SO POPULAR? NOT SO WELL RECEIVED?

        I THINK YOU HAVE MASTERED the CAPSLOCK.

        If only natural languages offered some other means of expressing emphasis...

    3. bobgameon
      Happy

      Then you should leave your PC for a while and step out into the real world. The whole "windows 10 is crap" propaganda mainly exists on tech sites. In the real world windows 10 is well received. I myself have helped upgrade nearly 50 PC's to windows 10 in the last month because for my friends and family having a masters in softwares means i'm only qualified to do so.

      The only place where I've faced reluctance to 10 is when somebody reads comments like the ones that constantly feature here, in which case it takes less than 2 mins to convince them to upgrade. After all in the end who are they going to trust? Some tin foil wearing conspiracy theory nut job who says windows 10 is stealing their data or the guy whom they know that tells them exactly what data is being collected and how they can turn it off.

      1. Ketlan

        'The whole "windows 10 is crap" propaganda mainly exists on tech sites. In the real world windows 10 is well received.'

        Have to say I agree with this. Techies hate it but the folk out there in the real world seem to love it (once the intrusive crap is turned off anyway). I'm still on 7 but I'm tempted to give 10 a go. it's pretty easy to reinstall everything from a backup.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Squeeky Wheel

        My Mom is a techie (taught me electrical and electronic engineering) and a gamer. She upgraded herself to 10. Aside from reading two books to find out what was stashed where, she likes it even on her plain desktop as well as the laptop. Privacy issues aren't huge when you're 85 ;-). Hell, they aren't huge here (I don't <u>have</u> a life).

        Personally, I can't stand it. I actually prefer Windows 8.1u1 (really liked plain 8.0) and any grade of Server. But different strokes and all that. I wouldn't be surprised if we have the squeeky wheel effect here. The techies that tolerate or even enjoy it (really?!) are the ones we're not hearing from in the tech fora.

        [Me? OpenBSD and/or Qubes: Off the grid. Windows/Android, on the grid, but no loss if they git e't. I'm definitely not going to proselytize though. Gave that up when Amiga died.]

        1. Paul Shirley

          Re: Squeeky Wheel

          Meanwhile out there in the real "real world" ordinary folk find Win10 doesn't work on the phones and tablets they actually own and use and don't care what it's like on the PCs they are buying fewer of and using less often. Windows is slowly sliding into irrelevance outside the business world.

          1. bobgameon

            Re: Squeeky Wheel

            Exactly what people might those be? I have a surface pro 4 and a surface book and windows 10 works fine on them. The drivers on the other hand need a lot of work. I gave my old surface pro 3 to my sister and windows 10 is working fine on that too. You really cant blame phones and tablets. Because its working fine on tablets and at this point anyone who actually has a windows phone is most probably a fan and knows windows 10 mobile isn't complete. Although Microsoft says otherwise.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Squeeky Wheel

          "Privacy issues aren't huge when you're 85"

          Sad to say but 85 year-olds who don't care about privacy are prime scammer targets.

          1. illiad

            Re: Squeeky Wheel

            DO remember that many 85 year old were once programmers or naval engineers... plenty intelligent enough to get adblock and malware scanners going...

      3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        ' I myself have helped upgrade nearly 50 PC's to windows 10 in the last month because for my friends and family having a masters in softwares means i'm only qualified to do so.'

        A masters in softwares[sic] means that you're only qualified to upgrade Windows?

        And does upgrading to 10 actually need a master's? I thought the hard job was stopping boxes upgrading themselves.

        'The only place where I've faced reluctance to 10 is when somebody reads comments like the ones that constantly feature here, in which case it takes less than 2 mins to convince them to upgrade.'

        ITYF that a lot of the people making comments here are professionals that are in charge of large deployments of kit at enterprise scale. This is where MS have made lots of money. Not only do they sell the server & client operating systems and the server applications, they also sell CALS so the users are allowed to use what they've already bought. I think MS are looking to those commentards for their continued revenue stream rather than yourself.

        'After all in the end who are they going to trust? Some tin foil wearing conspiracy theory nut job who says windows 10 is stealing their data or the guy whom they know that tells them exactly what data is being collected and how they can turn it off.'

        A good question. Bear in mind that by your own narrative these are people who know less than you & trust you. But have you actually gone & read the new T&Cs? Have you actually understood them? Have you carefully examined them for any limitations? E.g. when they say that they record login credentials you may think that they just mean logins for MS services but where does it say that this doesn't also apply to your bank logins, your Amazon logins, your eBay logins, your work logins....?

        Now try to think for a moment like a corporate lawyer; what are you going to say to an IT pro who wants to take on those T&Cs on behalf of your business? I think it'll take a lot more than 2 minutes to convince one of those guys. And don't try to tell me that this is just poor working on MS's part and because MS's corporate lawyers didn't see those T&Cs before they went online.

        'the guy whom they know that tells them exactly what data is being collected and how they can turn it off'

        What MS can collect is what they entitle themselves to collect in the T&Cs, not what "the guy" thinks they're collecting right now. And given that you can't hold back those updates just what makes you think MS can't update W10 to override your turning things off?

        1. bobgameon

          a) My family doesn't understand exactly what I do. All they know is that I work with software. They don't care about the fact that i'm in R&D. For them working in software means i'm qualified to install windows.

          b) This is the part I don't get. I work in a company with more than few thousand employees worldwide and our IT department has already started testing for the general rollout of windows 10 which will start somewhere around April 2017. I've even talked to a few guys in IT and none of them seem to have a problem with windows 10. I've actually quoted comments I've read here and on other websites to them and the "tin foil wearing conspiracy theory nut job" statement is actually a quote from one of them.

          c) Yes I've seen the new T&C. I understood all the technical part. And any questions I had about the legal side I asked my friends in the legal department of my company.

          So basically my judgment that windows 10 is safe to use for both me and the people I know is not just based on my understanding alone. The opinion of multiple employees of my company have gone into this. And frankly I know the people I work with. I know what there credentials are and I know how good they are at their job. And if those people say everything is ok then there is nothing anyone on any site or blog can say to change my mind.

          1. Joerg

            @bobgameon: I bet you are just a university student talking crap there. Windows10 is not going to be safe for any company that doesn't want to go bankrupt by using it. Windows10=8.2 is the worst spyware ever. The worst WindowsNT ever. It is a menace and only a fool would deploy it to thousands of employees claiming that it would be safe to use.

            1. bobgameon

              You can bet what ever you want. But the fact is Windows 10 enterprise adoption already stands at 11% with only 5 months in with people like Bank of America already saying "they are looking to adopt windows 10 as soon as possible". Compared to BoA my company is very small. So you can claim whatever you want based on your misunderstandings and wrong information but the fact is the people who spend millions on this stuff are already giving it a thumbs up.

              1. Paul Shirley

                @bobgameon

                "Windows 10 enterprise adoption already stands at 11%"

                I think you forget we know enterprise licences come with downgrade rights (usually used) or that we noticed Microsoft booking win8 upgrade options as actually sales for as long as the law allowed.

                In Microsoft's version of Hollywood accounting license sales!=adoption. Or sales.

          2. kryptylomese

            RE Microsoft in 2015: Mobile disasters, Windows 10 and heads in the clouds

            You have to put a special request in to be able to use Windows as a Google employee because they have to configure their network to isolate it because they have deemed it unsafe, also they do not like the sniffing aspect of it.

            Your judgement appears to be a off - Please will you name your company so we can all avoid it?

            1. Vic

              Re: RE Microsoft in 2015: Mobile disasters, Windows 10 and heads in the clouds

              Please will you name your company so we can all avoid it?

              Look at his posting history. His employer isn't hard to guess.

              Vic.

              1. bobgameon

                Re: RE Microsoft in 2015: Mobile disasters, Windows 10 and heads in the clouds

                Just because I like windows 10 doesn't mean I work for Microsoft. I know plenty of people who work at apple and google and like windows 10. But I see from your posting history that if anyone likes anything you don't, you automatically think of an affiliation between the two.

            2. This post has been deleted by its author

  3. James 51 Silver badge

    I would say that desktop continues to decline because of Windows 10. I have to use it on one laptop. It's better in UI terms than Windows 8/8.1 and if you have a touch screen and the inclination it's passable. However the privacy violation that is baked into it means that it will never be my main OS.

    1. itzman

      Re...desktop continues to decline because of Windows 10

      No.

      Desktops are not something consumers want.

      Consumers want to play games - and that's dedicated game boxes and TVs, they want to consume each others faeces book wibble, and a mobile smart slab is fine for that, and they want to watch porn, and any slab will do that too.

      They only need a desktop to work, and they are the generation that doesn't actually want to work, sees no reason to work and doesn't like working.

      And god forbid, we built the world that means they actually dont have to.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Re...desktop continues to decline because of Windows 10

        "they want to watch porn, and any slab will do that too"

        I've never found a decent size slab easy to use one handed!

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Windows as a Service"

    This quote from the article:

    Windows is being delivered “as a service”, which means both security and feature upgrades delivered incrementally and indefinitely.

    makes me wonder if the emphasis is a little off. For sure, it means that feature updates will be delivered incrementally and indefinitely, but for me the concept means something more important.

    'Windows as a Service' implies that the customer is paying a regular amount continuously for the use of windows and also that it is what Windows does rather than what it is that is being paid for. Leading to two conclusions :

    1) If Windows 10 is free then Microsoft must be expecting payment down the line for the services that it enables.

    2) As a Service Enabler, Windows 10 is not the product itself, and Microsoft will eventually show that they consider the Windows 10 installations as being rightly under their total control - both for updates and settings.

    TL:DR 'Windows as a Service' means Microsoft will assume configuration control of your PC's OS. And you will pay for the privilege.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Windows as a Service"

      My read on the overall strategy is to try to out-Google Google which explains the abomination of Windows 10 to anyone that's even a mild privacy advocate. That would justify 'giving away' the OS. That they are extending their cloud products over to iOS and Android plainly makes it clear that they want a slice of every platform's revenue production in their pockets in a stream of revenues. They don't have to charge the users directly to pull this off, simply monetize the users to support further development and, of courses, patches from the Windows 10 team.

      There are other advantages to their current strategy, but that's what's on point here.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Windows as a Service"

        I agree that if they can out-Google Google, or even come close, then there may be no need for them ever to charge for Windows 10. To be honest, I don't think they have the capability to do this so I would expect a charge for use of Windows 10 to come.

        However it pans out, I think their monetizing strategy will depend on them having some control of the capabilities of the OS installations, hence my belief that they will take steps to close down current approaches that have been devised to strip out store apps, and kill telemetry.

        And for that to happen they must view the OS installations as theirs to control.

        Arrogance, but possibly it's just business. Whatever - I'm out. I'm just interested in whether or not my suspicions turn out to be true.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: "Windows as a Service"

        "That they are extending their cloud products over to iOS and Android plainly makes it clear that they want a slice of every platform's revenue production in their pockets in a stream of revenues."

        As per my first post above, they're trying to move sideways but Apple & Google are already strong competitors there. And the very techniques they're using for this are not going to endear them to enterprise users. Even if they decide to be impeccably behaved, never turn "telemetry" back on if it's off and never try to enforce updates their current T&Cs are going to be anathema to any legal dept. that reads them.

        1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

          Re: "Windows as a Service"

          @Doctor Syntax - W7 has officially until 2020 barring an extensions so enterprises are probably a couple years away from the start of the next round of updates. If enterprises are not enamored with W10 they may consider other options. The importance of the current chatter is that enough people in various IT departments have very serious reservations about adopting W10. If Slurp continues to roil the waters periodically with W10 they will have enough ammunition to serious push other options.

          If the legal beagles bother to read the T&Cs there could be major changes in them or Slurp will throw away the enterprise market. My opinion has been Slurp should fight to keep the enterprise market the private fiefdom and treat the consumer market as found money. Instead they seem to want to do the opposite. The two markets are driven by very different needs and usage.

          Apple and Google are not very dependent on the enterprise market. To some degree it is found money for both, they will take it to the bank with a big smile. But it is not something that is critical to their continued success.

  5. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Headmaster

    What's it with the optimization?

    Windows lost huge momentum as a result of the failure of Windows 8 and the shift in strategy back to a desktop-oriented operating system, rather than one optimized for touch and tablets.

    Better choice: "adapted"

  6. Wade Burchette Silver badge

    Windows 10 would have been a monumental success if it was exactly like Windows 7 except with the under-the-hood improvements of Windows 8. If Microsoft did that, they could have charged a mint for the OS and it would still fly off the shelves.

    1. druck Silver badge
      FAIL

      If Windows 10 was exactly like Windows 7, why would anyone upgrade? People would stick to 7 for as long as they did with XP, if not longer as the paid upgrade is dead (even Apple can't get cash for the latest shiny shiny OS). Microsoft isn't so much giving away Windows 10 as forcing it down 7 & 8 users throats in a desperate attempt to get them back on a revenue earning platform, and that's the pay forever service model.

      1. Wade Burchette Silver badge

        Almost of the people on that tablet OS of Windows 8 would open up their wallets to get a Win7 with Win8 improvements. Many of the people on Windows 7 would love the speed improvements of Windows 8.

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Many of the people on Windows 7 would love the speed improvements of Windows 8.

          Oh I did! When I installed the customer preview. However, I hated the Metro interface and purchased an SSD instead :-)

  7. Ted's Toy

    Just uninstalled Win 10 and installed a Linux distro which is easier to use than Win 10 and does not have advertisments doesn't try and be anything except an operating system. Their office will replace my Office 365 as the yearly payment sticks in my craw.

    Being in my 70's and having had some sort of PC's since 1980's was upset when Dr Dos and PC Dos were lost. Use Lotus and Mac's till 1995ish, all the other PC units ended up with a M/S O.S. as the accounting and cash registers required it. Now all Windows PC's will be used for is a gaming units.

    As soon as Wine becomes as stable a games platform it will be on all the PC's for the old fart and grand childern to play on.

    The work and business Operating systems will be replaced with an open sorced O/S and so to will the accounting systems. The engineering side of my company may stick with M/S for cad etc. but as soon as we can use another system there as well we will replace the work stations as well.

    1. The Travelling Dangleberries

      I did an audit of the tools and software I need to do my job. All that I need Windows for at work is to run SharePoint Designer 2013 which is part of Office 2013. The rest I can do from a LinuxMint or pretty much any of the other mainstream Linux distributions. Come to think of it even Debian on a Raspberry Pi would do.

      Office 2013 was not WINE friendly the last time I checked, so I am a bit stuck there.

      1. kryptylomese

        Some companies still use MS Office and it is annoying that WINE does not run it well enough. Running Windows just so that you can use the Office application suite is shit especially when the Office suite is shit - you can of course use Office365 but it is not as good as the Desktop suite. However, government departments and companies are fed up with the Microsoft stranglehold and are switching to open office, so MS had better do something fast because the free alternative is better!

        1. Joerg

          Just buy a Mac with OSX and use Microsoft Office.

    2. BobChip
      Joke

      Open sorced O/S

      Open sorced O/S? That'll be Mint sorce, of course.

      1. itzman
        Joke

        Re: Open sorced O/S

        "That'll be Mint sorce, of course."

        Mint Sauce, Shirley?

      2. Whistlerspa

        Re: Open sorced O/S

        "That will be Mint of course "

        Not for me. I've found Ubuntu more stable, reliable and friendlier with NVidea graphics cards.

    3. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: CAD software

      We are pretty much a Linux shop, with a few Solaris machines being retired as fast as we can get our gonads out of Larry's money-making vice. However we do require Office for some document work where it has to be format-perfect with other MS users, and a few CAD packages that are Windows-only. Our solution is to use Linux for our desktops and have a few VMs with Windows for those applications (often XP, as for 7 you need the enterprise license I think for virtulisation), and not give them internet access.

      Result is pretty much the best of both worlds in terms of cost, flexibility and security. Yes it adds a slight complexity to using software in having to fire up the VMs but for anyone capable of using CAD software or writing complex technical or business documents its not a challenge after 10 mins of tuition.

      Of course it might not suit everyone's use-case, but is worth considering.

      1. kryptylomese

        Re: CAD software

        I too have used that setup but again annoyingly it is really hard to by a PC without Windows already installed unless you build the PC yourself and most companies want to just roll out HP or DELL etc so they do not have choice to not have to purchase a Windows License. That is changing (thankfully) though!

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: CAD software

          "unless you build the PC yourself and most companies want to just roll out HP or DELL etc so they do not have choice to not have to purchase a Windows License."

          Even with Windows big companies will wipe what comes on the PC & replace it with their standard configuration. Do they pay MS extra to do that?

          1. kryptylomese

            Re: CAD software

            RE Doctor Syntax

            You have missed the point - I want to be able to buy PC's for my company without an operating system so I can install what I want to (and it is most definitely NOT Windows).

            If a company wipes the hard drive and installs Windows from an image then they are still paying Microsoft for licensing - I don't want it in any form!

            1. Pompous Git Silver badge

              Re: CAD software

              You have missed the point - I want to be able to buy PC's for my company without an operating system so I can install what I want to (and it is most definitely NOT Windows).

              So why don't you buy computers without an OS FFS! Here's how to purchase them from Dell:

              http://www.geek.com/chips/buying-a-dell-without-windows-is-not-easy-but-possible-1302452/

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: CAD software

              @ kryptylomese

              If a company wipes the hard drive and installs Windows from an image then they are still paying Microsoft for licensing - I don't want it in any form!

              Yeah. Sure.

      2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: CAD software

        "using CAD software or writing complex technical or business documents its not a challenge after 10 mins of tuition.' - All to often people assume users will have a hard time if it is not bare metal Winbloat. They forget these seem users are often using a smartphone and tablet that has an entirely different OS.

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: CAD software

          using CAD software or writing complex technical or business documents its not a challenge after 10 mins of tuition

          Is that 10 minutes tuition for each of those skillsets, or all of them together? Or are you the Leonardo da Vinci of the 21st C?

      3. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: CAD software

        as fast as we can get our gonads out of Larry's money-making vice

        The vice in question is greed, presumably, and I suppose that works well enough; but the traditional metaphor would be "vise".

        1. Vic

          Re: CAD software

          but the traditional metaphor would be "vise"

          That depends on which language you're speaking; this side of the Atlantic, we'd still say "vice".

          Vic.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    My 5 WIndows 10 machines (of all form-factors) and Lumia 930 on Windows 10 have been tip-top and I expect them to get better with each update of Windows 10.

    The integration offered with Office 365 and Cortana linking phone to desktop devices shows the value of their ecosystem.

    1. The Travelling Dangleberries

      The integration offered with Office 365 and Cortana linking phone to desktop devices shows the value of their surveillance ecosystem.

      FTFY!

    2. kryptylomese

      "Value of their ecosystem". It really is a one line script to get a Linux machine to adapt its graphics and input characteristics depending on the output device and input devices connected. Why do Windows people think in terms of only what packages can do, instead of understanding that with the right tools and knowledge that they could do it themselves?

      Cortana was pulled from Android stores by MS because no body wanted it.

      1. bobgameon

        Some of us have actual work to do so we can't waste time in finding the "right tools" to get things to work. We prefer things to just work instead.

        And FYI Cortana wasn't pulled from the android store. The "Hey Cortana" feature was disabled through an update because it was creating issues with the microphone on some phones.

        1. kryptylomese

          No need to find the right tools - Linux gives you all of them and they just work. Guess you are too busy to find that out though because you spend all your time nursing shit Windows server and desktop PCs?

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            No need to find the right tools - Linux gives you all of them and they just work.

            So where's the equivalent of InDesign?

            mutter, mutter, must not feed the troll...

            1. kryptylomese

              I am not trolling - InDesign is an application rather than a tool and the Adobe have built it in such a way that WINE does not support it very well. You should be annoyed at Adobe but I am guess that you do not see it that way. I am guessing (Desktop Publishing is not my area) that there is a equivalent and I know that you are going to argue that it is not as good - they used to say that about Office....

              By tools, I mean all the day to day administration and monitoring and networking stuff that IT folk need to do and Linux can do all of it without buying add ons. Windows is woefully poor and allowing skilled administrators to build their own tools and instead they rely on buying packages to do everything which is shit!

              1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                I am not trolling - InDesign is an application rather than a tool and the Adobe have built it in such a way that WINE does not support it very well. You should be annoyed at Adobe but I am guess that you do not see it that way. I am guessing (Desktop Publishing is not my area) that there is a equivalent and I know that you are going to argue that it is not as good - they used to say that about Office....

                If you are not trolling then please accept my apologies. Clearly, we use the word "tool" to mean different things. InDesign is my "tool" for getting a particular type of work done. Despite your "guess", there is no equivalent for Linux. Note that TeX despite being the most sophisticated typesetting tool available is not equivalent. I don't publish books on "mathematics, computer science, economics, engineering, physics, statistics, or quantitative psychology".

                I'm not at all sure why I should be annoyed with Adobe. After all, it is Adobe that finished the work commenced at Aldus these many moons ago. If Adobe failed to anticipate MS's recent shenanigans, then so did I!

                Scribus is often touted as "more than good enough" by people who believe MS Publisher is "more than good enough". Word documents can only be imported as plain text and all the manuscripts I receive are in that format whether created by Word, Libre Office, Word Perfect, or Wordpad. That means bold and italics for example have to be done manually after import. Scribus supports Unicode character encoding but doesn't support complex script rendering. Scribus does not have OpenType alternative glyph support, so ligatures, for example, are not inserted automatically. Table implementation sucks. Footnotes, marginal notes and ePub exporting are apparently "under development". In short, Scribus makes you do an awful lot of tasks manually that are automatic in InDesign.

                When Adobe introduced InDesign, QuarkXpress had 95% market share. There are some very good reasons why Quark is now a mere footnote in history. As Dave Girard wrote: "[Adobe had] made a program that was both for production nuts who needed to work efficiently and creatives who were shown how digital typography and layout was meant to be."

                Oh, and the head of Quark had told users that if they didn't like what was happening to the tool of their choice, they could jump ship. Similar to my being persuaded by MS to drop Windows and move to Linux Mint. If Adobe have any sense they will make needed changes to InDesign. Maybe even the WINE developers could make WINE support InDesign better.

                Telling InDesign users that they can move to something "as good as MS Publisher" ain't going to cut any ice...

              2. illiad

                tool or app?

                yeah that's like a garage mechanic repairing your wheels and transmission, fine tuning the engine, and not worrying there are no seats and no roof! - he only makes sure its running ok...

            2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. MikeHuk

      I love Windows 10!

      I have no connection with MS but I have been on their Win 10 Insider Beta testing program since January an have watched the steady improvement. I have personately reprorted 182 problems/suggestions and they have as far as I can see have ALL been fixed. I do think the July release was premature an left a lot of outstaning bugs but now my experience is that is stable, reliable and the optimised code makes Windows 7 really pedestrian. I have tried Linux (Mint) but it is not for me. I love Windows 10!

      1. Paul Shirley

        Re: @MikeHuk

        I also signed onto the insider thing near the start. What quickly became obvious is insider is primarily about building a community of win 10 supporters first, debugging and improving it second. The pre Xmas emails from Gabe pretty much admitted it. It's succeeded in creating enough less than critical support to wonder just how much the echo chamber is still leading development astray.

        It certainly caused enough eager cheerleaders to pop up and site confusion anywhere windows is discussed.

        1. MikeHuk

          Re: @MikeHuk

          I'm sorry but I am not a cheerleader for microsoft, I love Windows 10 because it is a tangable improvement on Windows 7(I never tried win 8 because hated the way mIcrosoft diverted the system away from desktop computing and too much emphasis on Touch). I have have a Lenovo I5 laptop which was so hopelessly slow that I hardly ever used it, Windows 10 has turned it into a fast, reliable and very useable system that runs all my legacy software though I hardly use any of the Microsoft apps. I now use all the time in preference to my quad core, SSD equiped Windows 7 desktop system. I can only share my actual experience of using Windows 10 for almost a year.

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Planty Bronze badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: I love Windows 10!

        I have the opposite experience. I'm on my 3rd reinstall of windows 10. It's now a monthly occurance where so merging went wrong and its a reset to a clean install to fix it again.

        It's also a huge privacy invader (which despite me turning it all off, Microsoft seems to gradually turning things back on silently - surely illegal), and its not very intutive.

        Over the xmas break, I'm going back to win7.

    4. ashdav

      My 5 WIndows 10 machines (of all form-factors) ......

      @J J Carter

      1 day ago you posted this:

      "Woof!

      That explains why Sheppie, my border collie, started barking and pawing at the computer as soon as I installed Windows 10, he just knew something was terribly wrong."

      Make your mind up.

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: My 5 WIndows 10 machines (of all form-factors) ......

        Doh! You just fed a troll.

        1. ashdav
          Pint

          Re: My 5 WIndows 10 machines (of all form-factors) ......

          @Paul Crawford

          It's Xmas and I'm feeling unusually generous.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Go home Microsoft, you're drunk

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      RE: My 5 WIndows 10 machines (of all form-factors) and Lumia 930

      Hi Satya :o)

    7. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "The integration offered with Office 365 and Cortana linking phone to desktop devices shows the value of their ecosystem."

      Yes, but to whom is it of most value?

  9. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    Slurp's Problem

    Most people do not need to use typical office software at home. Those that do are often supplied a work laptop so the company has control of the hardware and installed applications. Other than a few specialist applications and games most people do not need Winbloat or any other specific OS at home.

    What most people need in an OS is to support a main stream browser, say Chrome or Firefox, is relatively easy to update, has photo/video/audio viewing/listening capabilities, and similar activities. These activities can be done on a smartphone, tablet, laptop, or desktop with currently available OSes including iOS, Android, ChromeOS, Windows, Linux, and BSD - I am probably omitting a few. There is little value to most people in being in any ecosystem. In fact being very cloudy makes the OS less critical. Linux users can use Office365 or Adobe Photoshop if they are willing to fork over a subscription.

    Thus the existential threat to Winbloat, beside Redmond stupidity, is most users do not specifically, objectively need it. They need an OS and Winbloat often comes preinstalled. For many this is acceptable - they have a functional device out of the box. But if the OEM's decide to push an alternative OS, say AndroidOS or ChromeOS, most users could migrate away and many will if the price is right. And some will.

    Many longish term navel gazing is that Winbloat marketshare on mobile will be low (~5%) and its share will drop on the desktop market to about ~70% with commercial Linux (AndroidOS, ChromeOS) being the main beneficiaries. Also, the PC shipments will decline for a few more years then level off at natural replacement rate.

  10. djstardust

    Mixed messages ....

    Funny how industry sites like this clearly show the faults in Windows 10, however consumer magazine and review sites (like PC Pro) are saying it's the best thing since sliced bread and that users should not waste a minute upgrading.

    Personally I think these sites are being paid by Microsoft to promote Windows 10 as my personal experience of both the botched upgrade/rollback and windows 10 itself was terrible.

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: Mixed messages ....

      Its far to easy to shout "MS shill" at consumer magazines when the real answer is much more likely to be how they choose to evaluate things. The "average consumer" from an advertiser's perspective appears to be someone not terribly bright and blown over by bling and novelty features, say, voice control. They are unlikely to think or care much about the privacy implications of how that is implemented, nor do they think much about freedom and control over a PC.

      Tech web sites on the other hand obsess over small points and how thing can be used for massive scale computing, etc. I have to admit to being that sort of a geek and champion Linux for various reason like this.

      But I know some folk who have "upgraded" to W10 and genuinely love it because it works for them and they don't care about the things I do. Sure I point them out, but I don't behave like a religious nutter over it and they are perfectly free to choose that if they want.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Mixed messages ....

      "consumer magazine and review sites (like PC Pro)"

      Back in the early days of the mid-70s personal computer was a term that covered all manner of things from memory as small as 1K right up to the heady heights of 64K whatever the CPU (usually 6502 or Z80).

      When IBM joined the fray it became a brand, not a term and MS-DOS or, subsequently, Windows was an expected part of the package that Personal Computer implied. The magazine market fragmented so a PC magazine dealt with IBM & compatibles and their MS S/W whilst the alternatives, Apple, Amiga or whatever, had their own magazines. For any given magazine alternatives to the central interest were at the most fringe matters (e.g. Linux on PCs) or simply didn't get mentioned at all.

      So it's not surprising that such magazines just concentrate on the latest variant of their interest and not too critically lest they drift away from their mainstream.

    3. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: Mixed messages ....

      The question is who actually does the update. I doubt most users have the skills to upgradeto W10 safely. Upgradng any OS should take some planning such as making sure data is backed up, installation media is available, etc. The automatic upgrades by MS scare me because there is too many ways an upgradee can fail and leave the user with a disaster on their hands

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Mixed messages ....

        The automatic upgrades by MS scare me because there is too many ways an upgradee can fail and leave the user with a disaster on their hands

        They'd scare me too if I'd succumbed to MS bombarding me with redundant copies of it. Fortunately, I saw the writing on the wall and installed Mint :-)

        [With apologies to Aunty Jack]:

        Farewell, Microsoft.

        You really pissed me off.

        Though you're ten feet tall

        You don't scare me at all.

        You're big, bold and tough,

        But you're not good enough.

        I hear a scream as you plummet away.

    4. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: Mixed messages ....

      PC-PRO? Well they even raved about Vista.[1]

      Many of their articles were very pro-MS from very early on. Only the 'pro' section offered a more balanced view from the likes of Dave Cartwright.

      [1] That's when I stopped subscribing to it.

      Can't remember the last time I bought one or even browsed the website.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "The phone that works like your PC"

    Microsoft fooled people with Windows RT - the Windows that didn't run Windows programs.

    Microsoft fooled people with Windows 10 for the Raspberry Pi - the Windows that wasn't even a Windows GUI and still didn't run Windows programs*.

    Now they advertise Continuum as "works like your PC" - without being able to run 'PC' programs*. It seems that it 'works like' only in sending all your data home.

    * it runs UWPs

    1. kryptylomese

      Re: "The phone that works like your PC"

      Microsoft just meant that would work as badly as your PC running Windows but the subliminal message was "Have you tried Linux - it really is better!"

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As it's Christmas can I make a correlation on the comments posted thus far?

    Those that posted comments that were downvoted more than upvoted and the opposite can you please let me know if you ate sprouts today?

    I like sprouts but to be fair I wouldn't spout some fo clear fud shown here today.

    Let me be clear on this.

    1. Merry Christmas all

    2. Microsoft have lost their way, Windows 7 was good to be fair.

    3. Linux has come a long way and it just needs that little bit extra to take over, many have said it for years but as I found recently faffing about in the console to remove a directory ~/. is not something an average or below par user is going to do to fix a problem (I'm looking at you mint)

    3. Can we all not bury our heads in the sand, you will all pay for windows 10 eventually, oh it's free, it offers optimization for gamers, next it will work better with office, after that mspaint won't function...

    4. I really can't be arsed continuing with comments, I could go into many other things about my disgust for microsoft and their policies but I'm turkeyed up to the eyeballs.

    1. kryptylomese

      1. Windows 7 was liked by gamers - the same gamers who can run most of the same games on Linux now (1700 games on steam now run on Linux natively)

      2. Microsoft want you to use PowerShell (if only they could release it without bugs in it). It is not hard to delete a directory but maybe it is above your skill level - have you thought about a console instead.

      3. Linux already has far more optimisations than Windows 10 for games.

      4. You have a choice.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        1. Given a free choice between a Windows PC and a Mac, every non-techie consumer (i.e. with no axe to grind), would pick the Mac. Guaranteed.

        2. So it comes down to price: Windows runs on creaky plastic landfill PCs which is one of two reasons why it's gaining traction, albeit very slowly.

        3. ...the second reason is that it's being forced onto people's PCs whether they like it or not. Only our terrible average broadband speed in the UK is stemming the tide here.

        4. There is no simple way to switch off the aggressive data gathering in Windows 10. Indeed, apart from a select few in Microsoft, it's not completely understood yet what data Microsoft is uploading. You won't be seeing an accurate Microsoft 'get the facts' campaign about this.

        5. There is always choice, but it's a bit like buying a Vauxhall or a decent car. Some people can't afford a decent car, or don't understand how a decent car would make their life easier.

        6. People who think it's cool to put stickers on their PCs and who think a trip to KFC is a decent meal out for all the family, generally don't have much of a clue. Those people end up with Windows. They don't know any better, like a dog doesn't know any better that licking its nads in public is not good behaviour.

        If you read this site and you run Windows 10, or you've installed it for unwitting family and friends - you shouldn't feel proud of yourself, and you certainly shouldn't try to justify or seek validation for your choices. You know quite well what Microsoft is doing and what segment of the market it is aiming for.

        Happy new year.

        1. kryptylomese

          "1. Given a free choice between a Windows PC and a Mac, every non-techie consumer (i.e. with no axe to grind), would pick the Mac. Guaranteed."

          If you tell non techies consumers the benefits, then their actual choice is very different!

          My 74 year old mother loves Ubuntu Mate edition so does my 8 year old son, and my girlfriend who uses Fedora and who is not from a technical background - I didn't need to train them at all either and they have not once missed having to find drivers or go looking for software or having to put up with crashing!

          1. itzman
            Holmes

            Given a free choice between a Windows PC and a Mac..

            I'd pick the mac and still install linux on it, simply because Mac hardware is OK ish.

          2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

            '"1. Given a free choice between a Windows PC and a Mac, every non-techie consumer (i.e. with no axe to grind), would pick the Mac. Guaranteed."

            If you tell non techies consumers the benefits, then their actual choice is very different!'

            All our computers are either dual boot Linux Mint/Winbloat laptops or all Linux desktops. SWAMBO has no trouble using Mint after using Macs and Winbloat for many years. A quick 5 minute tour and she even handles updating on her own. Occasionally she will ask what something is. She is more apt to promote Linux than me because she finds Mint very intuitive and easy to use.

            But for most, they think the choice only between Winbloat and OS X.

      2. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Windows 7 was liked by gamers - the same gamers who can run most of the same games on Linux now (1700 games on steam now run on Linux natively)

        They probably still do. While I am willing to play Civ V in less than optimal detail on Linux, I doubt whether players of first person shooters would be willing to put up with the poor graphics performance of Linux*. You state, "Linux already has far more optimisations than Windows 10 for games", so why the poor graphics performance compared to Win7?

        * Allowing leader scene animations crashes the game.

        Screen Res 2560 x 1440

        Leader Scene Quality Minimum

        Overlay Detail Medium

        Shadow Quality Medium

        Fog of War Quality Low

        Terrain Detail Level Medium

        Terrain Shadow Quality Low

        Water Quality Low

        Texture Quality High

        Improving any of these settings results in a crash on Linux. The game runs fine on W7 with all settings at their maximum. W7 also paints the screen much faster. I sincerely wish it were otherwise. However, if wishes were fishes...

        1. kryptylomese

          Sound to me like you are playing a game in WINE rather than running a native steam game and I never said that you get 100% compatibility with WINE (I said that MS could build a version of WINE that would give it). Native Steam games fly!

          You should google the max resolution of that Linux (X Windows) can handle - you will shit your pants! Linux users were playing Quake3 at 10240(Ten thousand two hundred and forty) x 3072 at full frame rate in 2009:-

          https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjM2tzgrfnJAhUJnBoKHaWACgwQtwIILjAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DkrVvGOqI21M&usg=AFQjCNG94eQb-yMHd6aylRoVTi2Scy9aFw&bvm=bv.110151844,d.d2s

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Sound to me like you are playing a game in WINE rather than running a native steam game

            http://store.steampowered.com/news/13608/

          2. P. Lee Silver badge

            If you want the latest AAA FPS then Windows is going to be your choice. And by "AAA" I mean over-rated and over-priced franchise engines (Hello BlackOps you "barely-interactive-just-run-around-because-there's-no-point-shooting-anything" thing.) which haven't been updated for the last five years. Meh.

            Having said that, looking down my list of installed linux games... Witcher, TALOS, XCOM, Bioshock, Worms :), all the Valve stuff, Strike Suit Zero, Torchlight, Trine, Metro, Serious Sam :), Defence Grid, Stanley Parable, Penumbra, Killing Floor - there's quite a lot out there.

            I've found WINE isn't a great option for games. Perhaps I just haven't fiddled enough.

            I see no particular reason not to take MS' offer of W7->W10 upgrade just to keep current, but all that its going to run on it is Steam for a few of the nostalgia games which haven't been ported - Magika, Lara Croft, Monkey Island. I'm not trusting it with any serious data and I'm certainly not going to run it day-to-day as my main OS. Its just a wrapper for some games - the right tool for the job. Eventually, I hope that vmware player is going to be up to the job.

      3. Paul Shirley

        @kryptylomese:"Windows 7 was liked by gamers"

        Win7 was loved by gamers for 2 reasons:

        1: MS withheld DX10 from XP and DX10 brought significant improvements to game rendering, small improvements to rendering speed. Driver support was also focussed on it rather than XP so of course gamers flocked to where the new shinies were.

        2: Finally we had a 64bit OS that didn't mean abandoning waste swathes of existing software, unlike the incompatible disaster XP64 was. Machines finally able to use more than 3.5Gb of installed RAM and very occasionally the performance bump of 64bit game builds.

        The rest of it, not so much loved as damned with faint 'it's less buggy' praise.

        If you've been paying attention MS are trying the same thing with DX12 on Win10 right now, to lure the gamers onto their unloved platform.

    2. Chemist

      "affing about in the console to remove a directory ~/. is not something an average or below par user is going to do to fix a problem (I'm looking at you mint)"

      Merry Xmas - why would you need a console to do that ? It's just another File Manager op. Dolphin (FM), Show hidden files from the menu, right-click on directory, delete from menu

      That's for Mint/KDE

    3. Robert Grant

      I'm turkeyed up to the eyeballs

      A huturkeyman?

  13. Ralphe Neill

    "The phone that works like your PC"

    Is that supposed to make me WANT the 'phone??

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    On Windows 7 in 2015 ....

    ... Can't display Kanji out of the box

    ... Default filesystem has more special characters than pimples on the face of a meth user, making copying from sane systems impossible

    ... You can't rename a user's directory if you renamed the user

    ... You need admin privileges to install some random dev tools

    ... The dialog to modify the system path is just a slap in the face

    ... Registry: a bad idea implemented badly

    ... Notepad and "cmd.exe" from 1980s are still a thing, because no freshman has ever been hired to fix that or he died on the job due to project management

    ... Files are locked when "open by another process", this is the definition of "pants-on-head retarded design"

    ... You must have antivirus for some reason

    ... You must disable autorun

    ... Windows Media Player is a bad joke of shitty usability

    JUST WHY

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: On Windows 7 in 2015 ....

      "Files are locked..."

      No, files are locked if the application requests a lock when opening them.

      Or the application doesn't ask for a lock and doesn't get one.

      That is sensible and extremely useful.

      It is generally bad to delete a file from under the user, so many editors (Word etc) do ask for the lock.

      And many don't. The decent text and code editors don't, instead opting to be notified if the file is changed or deleted out from under it.

    2. illiad

      Re: On Windows 7 in 2015 ....

      Just WHY????? backward compatibility, reducing specs to stop a support nightmare...

      who actually uses the win apps, when there are MUCH better stuff available???

  15. bon_the_one

    I think around 90%....

    I think around 90% of my clients desktop computers for the staff could be happily shifted across to ARM now. The PI is an excellent example, it'll run day to day stuff, cheaply both in investment and ongoing running costs. I'm actually doing the maths at the moment on if we replace a 25 seat environment, are we saving more money buying PoE Hats for them rather than powering individually, or each powered off a monitor's USB.

    Any heavy lifting tasks my clients do on bespoke can be re-coded into web apps running on a local server now. Most of the legacy stuff is going to require a rewrite anyway, so might as well just bite the bullet and make them local intranet apps.

    I see little need now for x86 outside specialist applications or the server room... Certainly no need for Windows.

    1. itzman
      Meh

      Re: I think around 90%....

      Yes..there are a few places you need local code running in the local processor. CAD and graphics mainly because its hugely CPU intensive

      Agreed that 99% of commercial apps are now just 'local screens on a remote database, done with HTML'

  16. pewpie

    I'll simply remember 2015 as the year that Microsoft killed Windows for any user in possession of a brain.

    1. Adam Jarvis

      Windows 10 Mobile.

      Given Microsoft's marketing department has done a better job than anyone, to kill the platform. If Windows 10 Mobile makes it another year to 2017 for any user with or without a brain, I'll be shocked. And No, a Surface Phone won't save it.

  17. The Average Joe

    Cloud gains are misrepresenting actual use...

    Well, this is a game to show the stock market Microsoft is making money and to tell all the users look jump over here for the new defacto standard.

    Well I for one will not be jumping over the cliff just because Microsoft says there are Billions of Dollars spend on Azure Cloud resources.

    In reality the use is close to 5% what they are reporting because they give the cloud credits to the enterprise and count every Office license as a cloud license and use of the cloud. I bet those sneaky scammers are even counting the trial versions as a unit of sale...

    Microsoft is a company that has gained the reputation as deceitful and un-trustworthy...

  18. Charles Manning

    Heads in the clouds???

    I've heard it called lots of things:

    bum, arse, ass, fanny, rump, tush, bottom, fundament, can, fourth point of contact and many. many, more

    but never cloud

  19. sola

    Microsoft is pushing people over to Linux

    By making so many huge mistakes with Windows 10, MS is working really hard on making the year of the Linux desktop a reality. Actually, they may be the biggest contributor at the moment.

    Most of the advanced Linux desktops (e.g Mint 17 Cinnamon or KDE Plasma 5 distros) work more similar to Win7 than Win 10/8.x but they are infinitely more customizable. I argue, that these desktop environments actually look better than Win 10 with those Fisher-Price coloured tiles and flat look.

    The Linux desktop user experience has been improving leaps and bounds in recent years. No more xorg config, multi-monitor issues, in most cases everything just works. For home use, it may be the best choice, especially if the hw is older. Hw compatibility has also been improving for a growing set of older printers you have better support on Linux than on Windows simply because the producers have not updated their drivers for the older models for Win8+.

    With the seemingly continuous major Windows Update problems, it is now arguable that Linux system updates cause less issues than their Windows counterparts, especially on more conservative distros like Linux Mint.

    I have no idea how any mentally sane enterprise possessing any intellectual value could tolerate the Windows "telemetry" services (spying on them). Since the "telemetry" is encoded, it is impossible to know what they actually collect and send back home. I would never allow a "telemetry" equipped Win10 (and now 7, 8, 8.1) machine near any of my networks containing product related documentations.

  20. Jess

    I can't understand the hatred of Win 10 from techies.

    (Unless it's the baked in spyware, but they can push that out to any Windows they want).

    I have been using it on a system that was clunky with Windows 7 and it has been fine. Look and feel is pretty close to Linux Mint.

    Saying that though, I can't see any reason that someone should upgrade from a Windows 7 system that is working well.

    I shall probably sort myself out dual boot with Linux Mint, and do a direct comparison.

    The negative feedback I have had from users is problems with certain touchpad drivers (solved by a manual re-install) and inferior support apps (no DVD support, and poorer photo app).

    I also see no reason that anyone should choose 10 over Mint, other than needing specific Windows apps.

    I think non techies are suffering forced upgrade fatigue, though.

    1. Danhalen

      Re: I can't understand the hatred of Win 10 from techies.

      Personally I've been getting on with Windows 10 absolutely fine but to be fair I only ever use my desktop for programming, gaming and web browsing. I'm a power user but certainly no sysadmin so maybe I'm just missing something.

  21. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Windows

    As a techie (of sorts)

    Can I say here

    I hate windows 10....

    As for the non techies I work with

    They all hate win 10 (and win 8 for that matter)

    M$ got it dead right with windows 7, what was so wrong with building on that success oh thats right, they wanted windows on phones and tablets when that boat had already sailed and m$ would be playing catch up forever.

    So here comes win 10, free because m$ are desperate for people to upgrade to it, but hold on

    m$ have spent a shed load of money on making win10 and if I was a shareholder in m$ I'd be saying "How are you going to make money with it?"

    Which is why I suspect m$ will start charging for the win10 'service' maybe in the forms of updates or patches IE "pay us £20/yr for all the latest upgrades... or your PC will be under threat from hackers, crackers and scam artists"

    But as more and more people discover theres a world beyond windows... I can only see m$ being supported by office (because they change the file formats every 5 years) and cloud services(because the MBA managers today are'nt the people who knew about the main frames and terminals of days gone by)

    And for gaming... if Elite :dangerous is available as a linux version. windows dies here

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    After reading all the comments it's clear there are people that like Windows 10 and people that hate it.

    I just don't like it.

    Here's two evolutions of users,

    Non-Techie. Can be identified by the asking of the most fundamental question when setting a machine up for them, "What are you going to use it for?" Answer: Browsing (Facebook), Banking, Games (sometimes), Office Apps, Printing.

    Computer (big bulky sits in the corner and takes up space)

    Laptop (Can sit with it on knee while watching tv)

    Nettop (Even smaller, not all took this option)

    Tablet (Cheap and does everything)

    These people are not going to go back to the computer because they don't need it so Windows 10 will not be used much longer for them anyway and most new installs move to Mint due to age of hardware and ease of use. There is a halfway house of people that do video editing and the such but they will just stick with laptops/macbooks.

    Techie.

    Computer or Laptop. (mainly computer due to what you do with it)

    These people are not going to install Windows 10 at home and are going to fight it being installed at work due to the T's & C's, telemetry, subscription cost and the sheer shite that is metro.

    There are going to be people that embrace Windows 10 and to you I say good luck because you will need it every time those automatic updates bork your systems or your information leaks or is sold to a third party. The tiles/adverts are suspiciously like "Google Now" which incidentally read my email and reminded me about a flight once. Needless to say I now run cyanogenmod on both my phones and google gets absolutely nothing, my contacts and calendar are synced with my personal owncloud. server.

    In summary for Microsoft Windows.

    Home Market - Disappearing.

    Business Market - Slowly disappearing but going all the same.

    Don't bang the door on the way out.

  23. Hans 1 Silver badge

    Comment of mine on el'reg:

    >23 Jan 2015 Hans 1

    >[...], there will not be a Windows Phone^H^H^H^H^H 11, they will can that as well, eventually.[...]

    >

    > 6 thumbs up & 6 thumbs down

    Happened sooner than expected, great news, lets hope the second part of my prophecy comes true ...

  24. Tom 13

    Let me fix a couple of things for your

    Microsoft in 2015: Mobile disasters, Windows 10 and shows heads in their clouds arses

    ###

    The problem with Windows 10 and the UWP app strategy is that most mobile devices run iOS or Android

    No the problem with Windows 10 is nobody wants it. The only reason I installed it on my mother's new computer is that she won't keep her fingers off the download button when the notices pop up, so it was better to put it on up front instead of answering the frantic call when it stopped working.

  25. Danhalen

    I've had a couple of Lumia phones over the past few years and my wife owns a Lumia 640. Really nice handsets for the most part but I think 3 or so years is long enough to wait for the wider app ecosystem to adopt the platform. I'm tired of the myriad half-arsed efforts (such as Anything from Amazon) that have a lot of functionality issues and only ever get token update releases. As much as I liked Windows Phone 8.x I think I'm going Android on my next handset upgrade.

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