when you need one?
I guess MS enjoys Sa
tyadistic satisfaction when pissing off their customer base. On both mobile and PC platforms.
Microsoft has decided to delay delivery of Windows 10 for phones running Windows 8 or 8.1. Redmond's previously said that WinPhone 10 will appear in December, but is now issuing a statement to the effect that “The Windows 10 Mobile upgrade will begin rolling out early next year to select existing Windows 8 and 8.1 phones." …
"Just kidding. iCertainly don't have a windoze phone!"
I do, and like it, for me the lesser of 3 evils
all major phone OS's are trying to grab you data and monetise you and encourage you to buy apps etc
winphone may have the smallest app store but it is not full of the rubbish of the other two, the phone does what I want , make calls and does texts and the few apps I needs (trains and weather) are there
the interface is easier to use than android, and I don't have to suffer apples tax because you can only use their brand of things like the apple watch will only charge from an apple branded wireless charger etc
I do, and like it
We meet at last! I have the other one, and like it too (920).
I'm eagerly awaiting the release of WinPhone 10, so I can see what it's like, not being an insider. 8.1 works extremely well - its rock steady, and my Nokia has outlasted everyone else I knows phone, save for some of those with an iPhone (credit where it's due).
That being said, the reason I'm eagerly awaiting 10, is that I'm planning a jump to a Wiley Fox Android as my next phone, but figured I'd hold out for a couple of months and see what 10 delivers.
A/the 1020 user here. :)
I've dipped into the insider builds a few times, but each time since it's my only phone had to drop 8.1 back on because of problems. Now on the current 10 build and fairly happy. There's a couple of sharp edges to clean up, but it's generally good to go. Can upgrade now after 2 years, but don't need to. Hardware still going strong and refreshed OS & universal apps could extend the little yellow monsters life well into 2016.
Had my 1020 since release and still very happy with it.
Best small camera I've ever seen and it has a perfectly well-behaved phone attached :)
Not quite sure what wizardry Nokia put into the battery management that allows it to outlast new phones from other manufacturers even though it's well over 2 years old now.
I will be very sad when it needs replacing.
At the risk of saying 'me too', me too!
I had a 920, loved it, but wanted a really good camera instead of just a good one, so got a s/h 1020 on eBay. For me, it's brilliant, it does everything I want and does it well. I couldn't give a toss about Windows 10, and I couldn't give a toss about looking cool in front of some 20-something know-nothing. So there.
"Have you looked at the amount of crud you get with say a default Linux install?"
And yet a typical Linux install takes up far less disk space than typical Windows 10, odd that?
From here, Windows 10 16GB/20GB for 32/64-bit, Ubuntu 7GB:
Also its easy to fire up Synaptic or whatever package manager and de-install anything you really feel is unneeded for your system. If you are doing it a lot, then just use command line 'apt-get' (or equivalent) program to remove packages, and when done, use 'history' to list what you did, and copy/paste it in to a bash script that allows you to do the same on other installations.
Want an OS with no Crud? Go try DSL (Damm Small Linux) or many of the 10 distros listed here
Then you can be sure to have no crud as you call it.
Even with a Linux distro that contains CRUD there are often minimal versions that do exactly what it says on the tin. Then YOU can choose what bells and whistles YOU want.
"From here, Windows 10 16GB/20GB for 32/64-bit, Ubuntu 7GB:"
For Windows, that's including paging and hibernation files, but not for Ubuntu.
"Also its easy to fire up Synaptic or whatever package manager and de-install anything you really feel is unneeded for your system."
It's even easier in Windows using add / remove features.
"If you are doing it a lot, then just use command line 'apt-get' (or equivalent) program to remove packages, and when done, use 'history' to list what you did, and copy/paste it in to a bash script that allows you to do the same on other installations."
You can do similar in PowerShell - like BASH in concept but far more powerful and fully object orientated - it supports for example real parallel execution branching and can continue across reboots.
> For Windows, that's including paging and hibernation files, but not for Ubuntu.
The 16 or 20 GB is the _free_ space required for an _update_ from Windows 7 or 8. The paging and hibernation files would already exist.
The 7GB is for a fresh installation and this would include the space required for swap file.
Ubuntu includes many applications and language systems, such as LibreOffice and Python, but not for Windows.
> It's even easier in Windows using add / remove features.
Ubuntu package manager also installs/removes thousands of applications, not merely 'features'.
> and can continue across reboots.
That is required because Windows _needs_ reboots. That is because Windows has a limitation that files that are in use cannot be deleted or replaced. Other systems have inode file systems that can delete and replace an open file, the open file continues using the inode until all programs close it. Thus, with *NIX, reboots are not required.
"The 16 or 20 GB is the _free_ space required for an _update_ from Windows 7 or 8."
So that's including keeping a complete copy of the current OS then for roll back / uninstall...
"Ubuntu includes many applications and language systems, such as LibreOffice and Python"
Quite - so bloated with lots of unnecessary crap as per the original comment....
"Ubuntu package manager also installs/removes thousands of applications, not merely 'features'."
So does Add / Remove Programs (where Add / Remove Features also resides) in Windows.
"Thus, with *NIX, reboots are not required.!"
So you have obviously never updated a kernel then....
>> "Ubuntu includes many applications and language systems, such as LibreOffice and Python"
> Quite - so bloated with lots of unnecessary crap as per the original comment....
So, you think that office suites and software development systems are "unnecessary crap".
Actually that is what people buy computers for.
>> "Thus, with *NIX, reboots are not required.!"
> So you have obviously never updated a kernel then....
Of course rebooting is a simple way to get the updated kernel to be loaded (when there is a new kernel), but your point was that "PowerShell .. can continue across reboots". It _needs_ to be able to continue across reboots because of the limitations of Windows during _every_ update and is not an actual advantage.
It is easy enough for superuser to get a bash script to run after a reboot, just add it to /etc/rc.local.
I much prefer the user interface on my Lumia 925 with 8.1 to the Androids and iPhones which preceded it. Sure, there aren't many apps for it, but the ones I need are there. However, I'll be just as pleased if MS never get around to forcing Windows 10 on it, as that messes up the UI.
"And even that was a backtrack from their earlier statements that ALL phones running Windows 8 Phone will get 10."
What was the wording on that statement? All Win Phones or just all Nokia/Microsoft phones?
There are non-Lumia WP8 devices out there from HTC and Samsung (source: Wikipedia) which are at the mercy of the manufacturers. I'm not expecting them to receive Win10 since not all of them even got the 8.1 treatment.
Nokia/MS devices are effectively *all shipped* WP phones, with negligible sales of anything else.
I've always believed tier 1 OEMs are building WP phones because their sealed Android patent agreements with MS either explicitly require it, or 'voluntarily' supporting WP reduces the licensing fees on Android. Without that carrot|stick I think they would all have abandonned it the moment MS got into bed with Nokia.
MS have mismanaged WP from day 1, simultaneously complacent about everyone loving whatever they threw out the door and equally complacent about their ability to force compliance on an industry they have little leverage in. Seems even with Ballmer gone the wishful (or should that be magical) thinking continues.
"Quite why people stick with Windows phones and MS's constant crapness for handling everything around it, I don't know."
Because it works for me. Got one of the 2nd gen WP7 phones, eventually upgraded to WP7.5 (didn't like the 8 interface, so never bothered with WP7.8) and well.. It simply works and does what I need from it. Maybe my environment also has something to do with that because I never bothered to upgrade to Win8 and also have no plans for Win10 any time soon. It's Win7, Office 2010 and VS2012 here, so I suppose my environment is also dated a bit.
Main reasons for me to use Windows Phone: simple but useful interface, Office connectivity (from word to Onenote), and I can even use it to log onto my BSD servers (SSH) as well as Windows servers.
Why would I upgrade (or change) if what I have works for me?
Why do I stick with my WinPhone...
I am using an Android for some development work for an app and it uses Bluetooth. Well, BT can be flaky and rubbish sometimes but the Android phone I am using (Moto 4E) is atrocious.
As I have mentioned before, UI pop-ups for BT pairing etc. end up hidden, trusted device popups likewise. You don't know that you are supposed to go somewhere else.
But I am here to tell you about the god-awful volume control issues. The BT connects and the sound is now A2DP over the connected device . Oh, it is too loud, reduce the BT volume on the phone, good.
10 seconds later, use the UI, change radio station (for it is a radio app) and boom, the BT is at full volume again.
It turns out that this happens with the regular volume too. Not only that but it doesn't remember the BT volume differently for different BT device as my WinPhone does. It could be the app but it doesn't seem reasonable
Add to that that the Low Energy is a pain to make connect etc. where I have minimal issues with iOS and WInPhone for that matter and the whole thing leaves me cold.
And, the worst parrt of all, the UI audio feedback is sent over A2DP when connected, which means it affects the device connected. This is definitely not what one would want at all. I was forced to disable all UI feedback to use the app seriously at all.
Awful, horrible, unbearable, don't know how people get by using it. Presumably, the same way that all iPhone users I see in cars tapping away on their phone while driving - they just don't use Bluetooth apparently.
WP 10 Preview is fitting/working ok on my Lumia 635 with the typical 512MB RAM, and 3-4GB free internal storage. My issue is that it is still not ready to replace 8.1 on my 640, and I am not willing to allow forced updates (as with the PC version) when MS "thinks" they are ready/safe to use. That is an absolute show-stopper for any interest by me in Win 10 on any platform, and the privacy issues are nearly as critical, although it seems most can be turned off, leaving what about any modern system can glean from "metadata" type snooping.
Consider, too, that 1 in 50, or even in 100 is still still millions of users, so would those numbers not interest anyone for app sales??
I think 'hate' is too strong a word. My comment is merely ridicule - just taking the piss out of the Enemy, as is traditional.
When Microsoft cease hostilities and stop trying to subvert the PCs of their existing (and largely satisfied) customers, I'll go back to being indifferent to their activities.
For the record : I fully intended to make my next phone a Windows phone, provided that the functionality was OK. Windows 10 is probably good enough for my purposes, but I won't touch it with a barge-pole given their current behaviour towards their customers.
People want them to be modern and ridicule them for letting Apple get away on them in smartphones. When they try to change people criticise them for changing too fast. Fortunately the silent majority have more sense and vote with their pockets. Microsoft is doing fine. You build a company that has billions in annual sales. I'm a happy customer.
No, not hate, just sadness. I used to hold MS in high esteem. I no longer do, and the reason lies in their hubris, greed and casual dishonesty. I once feared that MS would fail totally (because that would have been a BAD THING for everyone), now I am just standing on the sidelines watching a car crash in slow motion, and I doubt that anyone really cares. A lot of people are going to get hurt.
My WinPho 7.8 Nokia is still nice to use though small screened, & a bit slow by more modern standards. It's a well made product, with a good OS that's done nearly everything I wanted (despite several of the usual Microsoft crazy decisions they always make with software). I'd have liked to finally replace it in the next year or two, but it sounds like WinPho 10 is a huge step backwards in usability & functionality :-(
No idea what to replace it with. Not a huge fan of Android, won't pay the Apple tax, there doesn't really seem to be much choice any more.
I should probably form a support group with the other WinPho 7 user... ;-)
I got a 950XL yesterday - My first Windows phone. I chose it, as I'm loving my new Surface Pro 4, and liked the idea of everything syncing seamlessly between the two.
I spent a large chunk of what should have been last night's play time watching the phone configure itself, then install updates and restart many times. I did a manual check for updates before bed, was happy that all were done, and left it on charge.
I got up this morning to find a message saying that another update required a reboot, and that I could either reboot now, or it would automatically do so in 3 hours. That reboot took almost 40 minutes!
I want to give this a go, but am so far not impressed.
Glad you're getting a positive result on your 520. I didn't. I kept getting error messages on my email accounts. I need email so went back to WP 8.1. Hoping that all will be fixed by the time it hits general release. Also noticed a little more Iag and some apps like Skype had trouble launching reliably.
I got one too. Loving it - Windows 10 fixes a lot of the issues I had with 8.1, and the 950XL is faster even than my 1520. There are some parts in 10 that really annoy though. When the swipe keyboard can't match a word you're typing it lists suggestions but doesn't insert the first suggestion into the text like 8.1 did. So I type away and hit send on an SMS and the message missing every other word.
That's arguably my biggest issue, but there are others, like &£$%ing hamburger menus. That they're a good idea said nobody, ever.
"That reboot took almost 40 minutes!"
That wasn't just a reboot - that was reflashing the firmware, creating a new OS partition, installing the OS and migrating all setting and data across.
Windows Phone is designed to be as secure as possible, so every major update rebuilds the "chain of trust" from scratch, and doesn't assume to trust the integrity of what went before...
If you bought your handset direct from Microsoft, make sure you've got the Lumia Offers app installed (go to http://aka.ms/lumiaoffersapp if it's missing). There could be a nice surprise in it for you...
My wife got the 950XL a couple of weeks ago, and it's mostly very impressive. The camera is the best imaging package ever put in a phone (I am including the 808 and 1020 here - their image quality might be objectively better and better for post-processing, but the 950 pair's whole package of sensor, stabilisation, intelligent HDR and colour-balanced flash produces the best images with the least amount of effort, so the newer phones just shade them).
Against that, the default apps shipped with Windows 10 for Phones are still unfinished in places; updates are arriving quickly enough (the "People" one lost most of its cosmetic bugs yesterday), but I can't help thinking that the development schedule is still ongoing for this release, and what's on the 950 and 950XL is a beta.
However, all the negatives are software issues, and the various fixes are coming quickly. One of the big changes with Windows 10 is that mobile operators don't have to certify "firmware" updates like they had to on 8.1, so now once a phone ships with 10, it will get updated automatically as soon as the software is released (just like Apple's iOS device updates aren't gated by operator certification).
Rather than persist moaning about WM10, I decided to just do it and upgrade using the Insider Preview.
1. Performance is generally on a par with WP8.1, slower in some areas, faster in others.
2. Tiles are bigger than I would like, but the "Use more tiles" option makes them too small!
3. Settings app is immeasurably better.
4. Now they've re-added linked inboxes, the mail app is better than the WP8.1 mail app, although admittedly a little slower to load.
5. Navigation is a bit screwy as they've still got multiple navigation methods in use, but it's not as annoying as I thought it would be.
6. I'm yet to decide if the "hold down the Start button to bring the screen down so you can access controls at the top of the phone with one hand" feature is a nasty hack to get around the idiotic decision to follow Android and put all navigation at the top of the phone away from the user's hand, or a clever trick to get around the idiotic decision to follow Android and put all navigation at the top of the phone away from the user's hand.
The upgrade itself went very smoothly. Took about an hour and everything was exactly where I left it when it came back, even down to the Start layout which wasn't preserved when upgrading 8.1 to 10 on the desktop.
Kudos for attention to detail though, as I had the old neutered Office app pinned to my start screen, the upgrade downloaded the new Excel, Word, and Powerpoint apps and put them in a tile group in the same spot where the old Office app was pinned. Not a massive feat of software engineering, but a nice touch.
Overall, the upgrade is much like going from Windows 8.1 to 10 on the desktop, generally a non-event with a few niggles that I'm confident will disappear over time. It's a good start, MS just need to stick to this way of doing apps and not change their minds and reinvent the wheel in a year's time when it doesn't immediately work, because it's not going to.
IF it works at all in turning around the fortunes of Windows apps, I don't think we'll see any significant uptick before the end of next year, as it will take time for companies to evaluate the platform, decide whether to go with it, and then develop the apps themselves.
Was one of the first to get a 950, which I loved at first, however the latest pdate has turned it into a little pocket warmer, draining battery like nobody's business and failing to download further updates because of a non existant memory shortage. As a result I think the old WinPhos that are waiting for their upgrade are lucky, as hopefully by the time it does upgrade they'll have sorted out this bug.
And by all accounts I am far from unique in suffering from the bug above,
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