back to article Microsoft steps up Windows 10 nagging

Fire up any computer running Windows 7 or 8 and you'll be used to a message or three inviting you to upgrade to Windows 10. But the latest pop-up screen doesn't even give you a choice. Windows 10 Somewhat underhanded of Redmond The large pop-up screen, which first appeared over the weekend, gives users the option of …

  1. John Tserkezis

    "respectable firm like Microsoft"

    Thanks elReg. I need yet another new keyboard.

    1. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge
      Trollface

      I heard Microsoft makes good keyboards

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        I heard Microsoft makes good keyboards

        Good mice too; I'm using one right now, but the keyboard is a Honeywell SpaceMate. I'm on a nostalgia kick. The MS Natural is in a corner of the office/den/study [delete whichever is inapplicable] gathering dust. ;-)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I heard Microsoft makes good keyboards

        I can't decide to agree on the word "make", but possibly "designed" (unless design has been outsourced too). Anyway, I've been using cheap (around a tenner) MS-branded keybords for a good couple of years, and they've been superb (comfy and QUIET too). In fact, in the first and only ever in my life, I bought three as a back up, when they decide at some point to "improve" on the design. Because, while sturdy, the "quiet" turns into "quiet, but noticeable", over time.

        Anyway, on the reputable company....

        1. L05ER

          Re: I heard Microsoft makes good keyboards

          Yep, I've got a few as backups... But I have a nasty habit of spilling the bong directly in my keyboard... 3 times in the last 18yrs have my keyboards died this way.

      3. HmmmYes

        MS make good mice. Not sure why - maybe they stole into my room at night and took an imprint of my hand to be used as the template.

        MS make sh1t keyboards. Clicky all the way.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Choked on my cuppa!

          "But it's not the kind of tactic you'd expect from a respectable firm like Microsoft"

          And my left testicle is a Nigerian Prince!

          1. Jedit
            Angel

            "And my left testicle is a Nigerian Prince!"

            After receiving all those scam emails, I've developed an overpowering to kick a Nigerian prince. Invite me round to your place, would you - I can get two for the price of one!

    2. Stoneshop Silver badge
      Coffee/keyboard

      New keyboard

      Unicomp should offer a variant with the Reg Vulture in place of the Windows key. They're quite beverage-resistant, so a good choice for commentards anyway.

    3. Thunderbird 2

      "respectable firm like Microsoft"

      presumably some unusual usage of the word respectable that us lesser commentards are familiar with.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Respectable

        Like Don Corleone, who insisted on respect.

        Soon they will ask you to kiss the ring.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Someone care to explain this one?

  2. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

    I upgraded one PC and that was enough - my internet connection was locked solid on the download for about 5-6 hours and after the upgrade ... no more CD player. Overall my experience with W10 on a PC that is designed for Windows 8 has been OK but upgrading from Win7 has been miserable.

    The most miserable thing in Windows 10 is that fact that "uninstalling" an application doesn't actually get rid of it, add another user and you go through the whole process again. Yes, there are some nice features in Win 10 but we're going to have to wait for the next version before they get it right.

    1. Preston Munchensonton
      Megaphone

      Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

      Funny thing. I'm hearing an echo from 2012:

      "Yes, there are some nice features in Win 8 but we're going to have to wait for the next version before they get it right."

      And from 2013:

      "Yes, there are some nice features in Win 8.1 but we're going to have to wait for the next version before they get it right."

      I decided to stop waiting and just use Windows 7 until it's truly good and dead. Linux Mint will wait for me on the flip side.

      And fuck Microsoft for this anti-user bullshit. That's all.

      1. Youngone Silver badge

        Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

        + 1 for the Linux Mint reference.

        I can't remember the last time I was this happy with an OS, (maybe Win XP, SP3).

        I even sent them some money, it only seemed fair.

        1. Jess

          Re: Linux Mint

          I just installed Linux Mint for the first time in a couple of years and I just realised why I find Windows 10 so familiar, and pleasant to use.

          The interface is virtually identical. (OK, the search is at the top of the menu panel in Mint).

          Obviously Mint itself was based on the look and feel of an interface somewhere between that of Windows 2000 and XP. So they can't really complain too much about the 'Tribute' interface.

          I have upgraded several machines from 8.1 to 10, and all of them required using the Media Creation Tool to force it. (Oddly, no-one has asked me to upgrade Windows 7 to it).

          I have yet to see the nag screen do anything other than say you are in a queue.

          Do they have some means of detecting those who actually want the system and make it hard for them, while forcing it on those who don't?

          The complaints about Windows 10 after the upgrade are due to the bundled software being replaced by less functional alternatives. (Inferior photo app, loss of DVD support) But to be fair, the same is true of the latest OS X. (iPhoto won't run, even if you have a paid for version).

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: Linux Mint

            Do they have some means of detecting those who actually want the system and make it hard for them, while forcing it on those who don't?

            Wouldn't surprise me in the least!

          2. NotBob

            Re: Linux Mint

            Do they have some means of detecting those who actually want the system and make it hard for them, while forcing it on those who don't?

            I know it's an oldie, but one way to get the upgrade might be: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990422

      2. Chris Parsons

        Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

        Too true. I have a Win 7 VM for the odd occasions when I really need it, otherwise it's Mint all the way for me.

    2. big_D Silver badge

      Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

      I'm still not being offered Windows 10 at all on my Surface. I will have to manually upgrade it, probably during the Christmas break.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

        ref. "manually upgrade it, probably during the Christmas break" - you're likely to waste a couple of days and wail in frustration, find better time for that!

        1. Stoneshop Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

          If it's that or visiting your inlaws, trying to upgrade might well be preferable.

        2. big_D Silver badge

          Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

          I upgraded 3 PCs at the weekend for relations. All 3 went smoothly. No problems at all, and they were all 3 to 8 years old.

          1. Richard Hewitt
            Coat

            Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

            "I upgraded 3 PCs at the weekend for relations. All 3 went smoothly. No problems at all, and they were all 3 to 8 years old."

            They are going to regret that when they become teenagers

            1. big_D Silver badge

              Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

              "I upgraded 3 PCs at the weekend for relations. All 3 went smoothly. No problems at all, and they were all 3 to 8 years old."

              They are going to regret that when they become teenagers

              They are all over 50 and happy so far.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

                "They are all over 50 and happy so far."

                It's called 'Dementia'.

      2. Martijn Otto

        Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

        Did you mean: "Break it during Christmas"?

        Would add the Joke Alert, but it's not really a joke anymore.

      3. LDS Silver badge

        Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

        Actually, on a true tablet 10 looks worse than 8.1. Guess I'll stick with the latter for some time.

        1. Stefan 2

          Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

          I'm enjoying Win 10 on a crappy tablet (Lenovo, 2 years old, 2GB RAM, Atom quad core). Much better than Win 8.1 that it came with.

          Desktop mode is usable with touch, tablet mode is usable with touch, I rarely plug in a keyboard (don't have a bluetooth keyboard yet) and it just plods along nicely, doing what I ask of it with minimum fuss.

          Apart from the times I wake it up and all I get is a black screen.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

      there are some nice features in Win 10 but we're going to have to wait for the next version before they get it right.

      I think we've been waiting for about 3 decades for Microsoft to get it right, and I grew tired of waiting. I have a business to run, and the overhead of keeping Windows safe and usable, yet protect my customer's privacy rendered the use of Windows on the desktop simply economically unacceptable (we'd already switched to Linux based servers), not in the least because we were never sure where we were in terms of licensing. Keeping up with that nonsense alone was stupidly expensive.

    4. Tony Haines

      Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

      To be fair, I don't think any CD drive has ever survived an upgrade.

    5. Stoneshop Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

      Yes, there are some nice features in Win 10 but we're going to have to wait for the next version before they get it right.

      W10 will be their last consumer OS; only incremental, rolling 'improvements' from now on. And waiting for Microsoft to get it right? You'll be getting a call from Beelzebub for a bulk order of antifreeze before that.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

      Mt main laptop started dying regularly a week or so ago and in the end I ordered a replacement (why do ALL laptops these days have shit displays) it came with W7 installed and a pile of re-install disks including 8.1. So I thought I'd bite the bullet and try the dreaded 8.1. Well after a spate of BSoD (it's a pretty new shade of blue and has a sad face on it) every time I go near the screen for adding devices. I decided I needed to get some work done, so I'd upgrade back to W7. BUGGER I didn't check carefully enough and HPinc didn't include a damn W7 re-install disk, only 8.1 ones.

      So sod going to 10, I'm desperate to upgrade to 7.

      I'd love to be able to do a real upgrade and switch to Mint but I need to run bits of SW that only work on Windows, so I have no option. My indoors laptop went to Mint a month or so ago and seems to be doing fine. Certainly more usable and infinitely more stable than W8.1.

      As for waiting for it to go W11, well 8 is worse than 7, by all accounts 10 is worse than 8, spot the trend yet?, so sod going to 11.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

        So sod going to 10, I'm desperate to upgrade to 7.

        That. The clearest sign that a version is not wanted is when the average end user calls returning to the older version an upgrade. First seen with Windows Vista, by the way.

        1. Stoneshop Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

          First seen with Windows Vista, by the way.

          Forgot WinME? OK, you can be forgiven for that.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

            Forgot WinME? OK, you can be forgiven for that.

            Aaaaaaaargh! THE MEMORIES. AAAAAAARGH. NOOOOOOO!

            :)

            1. Stoneshop Silver badge
              Alien

              Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

              AAAAAAARGH.

              Oh, right, I should have put it as "Eradicated your memories of WinME? Congrats".

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

                Oh, right, I should have put it as "Eradicated your memories of WinME?

                Yes, some memories get suppressed for a reason...

      2. Sloppy Crapmonster

        Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

        I downvoted you, and here's why:

        I specced out a new laptop for work recently; it's a MSI PE60 6QE-031US. Intel Skylake i7-6700-HQ, 8GB RAM (too little, unfortunately; maybe I can upgrade in a couple of years), Intel something-or-other graphics *and* Nvidia GTX 960M (Optimus graphics, so I'm stuck with the Intel video when booted into Debian), matte 1920x1080 display. Really, other than the RAM (I was given a hard limit of $1200 for this machine (as opposed to my supervisor's favored supervisoree; he's probably going to get a Macbook Pro with lesser specs and 2x the cost), so I stepped down from 16GB RAM to 8 in order to get the 250GB Samsung 850 Pro EVO SSD; HUGE MISTAKE!) this is a really nice computer. It came with Windows 10, and I put Debian 8 on it because that's what I use at work; Windows is on a second partition because I also like to play video games, and Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes looks *really nice* with the graphics turned *all the way up* (yes, I have a bit of a backlog). Anyway, what I'm saying is I'm coming up on 20 years of using a Linux distribution in anger (Debian Slink, then Redhat 6.2, then back to Debian from then out) and *as long as you don't want to play video games* you should just put up or shut up about moving away from Windows. There's not even a good reason to do so; any computer you don't assemble yourself is going to come with a valid Windows license. Bill Gates doesn't care if you use Windows or not. Satya Nadella doesn't, really, either. Put VirtualBox on it for using Windows from your choice of Linux distributions; it's easy to learn, and a valid license of Windows you could put on it costs $200 on the expensive side. Threatening Microsoft (in the comments section of ElReg, ha!) that you're going to stop paying them does nobody any good.

        1. Chemist

          Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

          " any computer you don't assemble yourself is going to come with a valid Windows license"

          That's certainly not true in the UK. I'm writing this on a very similar laptop to yours (minus the NVidia graphics) which was bought new without any OS and has had OpenSUSE 13.1 on it from new

          1. Dazed and Confused

            Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

            " any computer you don't assemble yourself is going to come with a valid Windows license"

            I bought a Laptop from HP earlier this year which was shipped install with Ubuntu. It was at a significant cost saving compared with buying the same model with Windows. About 10% IIRC.

            It's low spec, but perfect for what I wanted, mostly to run Thunderbird and access my email while inside the house without lugging my main laptop in.

    7. BitDr

      Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

      "Yes, there are some nice features in Win 10 but we're going to have to wait for the next version before they get it right."

      They had it right, it was called Xenix.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

        They had it right, it was called Xenix.

        Ugh, no thanks. The hassle I had to get some optical drives to work on that was unbelievable. *Retch*

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: I'm waiting until it goes to 11.

          The hassle I had to get some optical drives to work on that was unbelievable

          That was par for the course with Unix/Xenix back then. It was a relief when vendors started shipping systems with integrated Ethernet and TCP/IP stack, as it became possible to simply connect two systems together and transfer files, prior to this, an RS-232 cable and uucp was typically your only option...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Desperate, malicious, disgusting, ...

    I could go on. There are a whole lot more perjorative words that I haven't used and that aptly describe Microsoft's current attitude to their previous customers. These three will do for now.

    Oh, and Loathing, which is what I feel towards Microsoft now (prior to GWX it was merely indifference).

  4. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge
    Trollface

    oh this is so funny

    I mean, watching Microsoft develop new tactics to make people install Windows 10.

    1. dan1980

      Re: oh this is so funny

      @Bronek

      No, it's not a new tactic, it's just a 'logical' progression of their existing 'cloud first' goal, which requires everyone to be as connected as possible and have their software under the complete control of MS.

      That goal, as it applies to desktop PCs, is to have them running Windows 10 and the tactic to get that to happen is force people onto it. All they're doing is removing the options to say no.

      F$#kers.

      1. RoboticRabbit

        Re: oh this is so funny

        Then they went and removed the cloud storage and then backtracked a bit. This is exactly why I want absolute control over my system and data. If MS can't provide it then they can go get hosed.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: oh this is so funny

          "If MS can't provide it then they can go get hosed."

          Then they hose you right back with Windows-only, WINE-incompatible, VM-not-recommended software.

        2. Dwarf Silver badge

          Re: oh this is so funny

          Isn't it odd that you can't pin a cloud down as its full of vapour.

          We used to have a term called vapourware for things that you can't see or buy. So it seems that they have worked out how to try and monetise it, but not what it is yet.

          I sense marketing BS behind this cloud crap.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Terminator

        Re: oh this is so funny

        Welcome to the One Microsoft Way

      3. BitDr

        Re: oh this is so funny

        Watching them fall on their sword is indeed entertaining. I've never been busier migrating people from Windows & MS Office to Linux (mint) and Libre. They already use Firefox or Chrome, most use webmail, those that don't are finding the transition to Thunderbird from Outlook an easy one. Most like the Cinnamon desktop to be themed like XP or 7, but a few like the default. Those that are accessing their desktops via a thin client use Mate. It all just works and it doesn't spy on them or annoy them with constant pop ups.

    2. Mikel

      Re: oh this is so funny

      Wait until you see the Christmas PC sales numbers. It ought to be hilarious.

      Salesman: we have all these laptops on this aisle. 48 of them. As you can see, they are all chunky black clams with low resolution displays, four hours of battery life. Their screens show that they all have Windows 10.

      Customer: I have that. That's why I'm here. What else you got?

      1. Techie007

        Re: oh this is so funny

        Exactly, and a sluggish, clunky HDD to boot. For the average user, an iPad would be so much better, and that's a shame.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    FFS Microsoft

    No release of Windows has pushed me so hard into the arms of Linux as this one. Its quite amazing how wrong Microsoft always gets things. Just release a decent version of Windows, people will come. But this one seems to be an annoying intrusive privacy invading nightmare.

    The basic OS has improved so much the last 20 years, and Microsoft's software is maturing nicely. Visual Studio is amazing to work with, and I reluctantly have had to use recent versions of Office and been quite impressed by how easy it is to use, even by a hater like me. But Microsoft always seems to be always managed by dullards dragging the core tech down with dumb ideas. Stop trying to copy Google and Apple, find your niche and perfect it.

    Sadly so many of the best PC games are still only on Windows. I am probably going to have a Windows games-only box and use Linux for everything else.

    1. regadpellagru

      Re: FFS Microsoft

      "Sadly so many of the best PC games are still only on Windows. I am probably going to have a Windows games-only box and use Linux for everything else."

      Have a look at SteamOS, it's now working great. Spent the night playing games on it (with a steam controller) ...

      1. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

        Re: FFS Microsoft

        If you mostly compute and play the odd game, SteamOS might suffice. If gaming is a more primary activity it's not even in contention.

        Yes, the selection of games is better than it was, but it's nowhere near as good as Windows. Windows will also let you play GOG.com/humble bundle games without a hassle - SteamOS will not (yes, both of those have a smaller Linux range of software, too, but by default SteamOS is not set up to download third party software)

        1. HmmmYes

          Re: FFS Microsoft

          I've been hanging around waiting for SteamOS - for the kids.

          Had to give in and buy an WIin7 OEM license.

          £25 for a license to run DirectX.

          Install from Win7 media. Spent the weekend on updating FFS.

      2. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: FFS Microsoft

        Have a look at SteamOS, it's now working great. Spent the night playing games on it (with a steam controller) ...

        Dunno why the downvote. I only play but one game (Civ V at this time) and it runs fine under Steam, particularly my ASUS Zenbook when it ran too slowly under W7.

      3. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: FFS Microsoft

        "Have a look at SteamOS, it's now working great. Spent the night playing games on it (with a steam controller) ..."

        In case you haven't read, I've been to Linux and back. And the Steam on Linux catalog pales compared to that of the original Steam on Windows catalog. Too many titles even now are Windows-only. I just recently checked their popular sellers list. Of all 207 on that list, there were about 62 that were on Linux. Of them, 2 were dev kits, 2 were Valve accessories (the Steam Controller and Steam Link), 1 was a video, and all but 2 or 3 of the rest were indie games. No headliners like Fallout 4 from big-name companies. This includes companies like Square Enix who develop for the PS4 and therefore should have some experience with working with a Linux target, yet not a peep from them. Most of my current collection are Windows only and likely will be staying that way for a long time. So you know what, until that changes, Steam on Linux can take a hike,

    2. BobChip
      FAIL

      Re: FFS Microsoft (AKA F*** Microsoft)

      Linux (Mint is fine) plus Codeweavers Crossover and/or VirtualBox and an old copy of Win 7 will cover your needs. Nobody needs MS any more, and sure as hell nobody actually wants them.

      It is beyond belief that anything other than a fast-failing business in the last throws of utter desperation would resort to tactics like this.

      1. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: FFS Microsoft (AKA F*** Microsoft)

        Using VirtualBox requires a copy of Windows, which basically means "Why bother?" And Crossover is based on WINE, which you'll note can be hit or miss, particularly with newer games. And now with Windows 10, they'll be pushing DirectX 12 games, which hasn't been translated over to Vulkan at this point in time.

      2. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

        Re: FFS Microsoft (AKA F*** Microsoft)

        No, it won't 'cover your needs' unless your needs fit exactly what Mint provides. Charles wants to run modern games. The best PC gaming platform is Windows, full stop, end of story. If you're happy running games that are over four years old, Linux may be a realistic option.

        If you're using a copy of Windows 7, then you do need Windows software, and the native solutions (even with a translation layer like WINE) are not enough. Resorting to Windows software is continuing to support that platform, and not moving Linux further forward.

        I find it quite amusing that people are down voting posts for stating facts. This can't be argued with : Linux does not support DirectX 11 in any sensible fashion. Not in Crossover/WINE, not in VirtualBox, and not in VMWare. Battlefield 3, a four year old DirectX 11 game, appears not to run.

        Also, you're out of date. Virtualbox looks like it's limited to DirectX 9. VMWare is up to DirectX 10. If all your games are DirectX 9 based, you're potentially only running games earlier than 2006 - seriously?

        It's great that Linux game support is an awful lot better than it used to be, but until native games, or games that work 100% in crossover/WINE on release are the norm, Windows is going to be the better platform.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: FFS Microsoft (AKA F*** Microsoft)

          No, it won't 'cover your needs' unless your needs fit exactly what Mint provides. Charles wants to run modern games. The best PC gaming platform is Windows, full stop, end of story. If you're happy running games that are over four years old, Linux may be a realistic option.

          I have to agree. I'm not personally interested in PC gaming. I rarely - as in "perhaps once or twice a year" - play games on a PC, and when I do they're old games, and my guess is that they'd run fine under various Linux-hosted solutions. But clearly the newest PC games from the major studios are mostly or entirely Windows-only. If that's what someone wants, that's what they need.

          Now, while I currently run Win7 on my personal laptop - because Linux runs fine in a VM and so I haven't had any reason to go through the trouble of changing the host OS - that's going to change when I'm finally forced to upgrade the host OS or get a new machine. All this Win10 GWX bullshit has reignited the intense dislike I felt for Microsoft in the '90s. They earned a measure of goodwill from me over the last 15 years for SDL and some other genuine efforts to improve things, but they've squandered that and more with their hard-sell and spying.

          So in a year or two it'll just come down to choosing a Linux distribution, unless I'm feeling whimsical and go with OpenBSD instead. I used to do BSD kernel development back in the 4.3 days, so nostalgia and an instinctive hatred of systemd might drive me in that direction. On the other hand, I might go with OpenSUSE for solidarity, now that we work for the same company. Decisions...

  6. Dwarf Silver badge

    Oi Microsoft

    What bit about no thanks don't you get.

    1. Chris G Silver badge

      Re: Oi Microsoft

      Anyone know of a 'Backtrack and Nuke' app I can download and apply to Win10 reminders?

      1. VinceH

        Re: Oi Microsoft

        Go into Windows Update and uninstall KB3035583*, then stop Windows from installing updates automatically.

        From this point forward - better late than never - review the updates and decide for yourself whether any should be installed.

        * That's the first nasty, but there could be others. I've long since switched to manual installation!

        1. Techie007

          Re: Oi Microsoft

          That's not how to do it. Each time Microsoft updates/re-releases that update, it will appear again to be installed, even after you hid it. Furthermore, who knows what other sneaky updates Microsoft will release in the near future to load Windows 10 on people's computers.

          Instead of uninstalling/hiding certain updates, it is much more effective to leave them installed and simply opt your computer out of the upgrade: http://win10epicfail.proboards.com/thread/46/completely-disable-icon-automatic-upgrade

        2. Snake

          Re: Oi Microsoft

          It is actually TWO

          KB3035583

          KB2952664

          x664 will actually reinstall x583, so unless you get both you won't truly get it. Not all systems have x664, as it mostly arrives via a confirmation of the Windows 10 invite, but you must check for both and then remove both.

          See my instructions on how to do this properly at

          http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_upgrade/disable-windows-10-download/8f978f15-7a51-4a69-9bb0-f290e61c3d5c

          (10th reply)

        3. Jeffrey Nonken Silver badge

          Re: Oi Microsoft

          "Go into Windows Update and uninstall KB3035583, then stop Windows from installing updates automatically."

          Also hide it next chance you get, otherwise you'll re-install it by accident.

        4. Michael Habel Silver badge

          Re: Oi Microsoft

          That will help, but with MicroSoft going all mum with whats actually inside any given update, muchless info about, what it's supposed to fix. How the **** can you trust them to not implant the same BS via the backdoor?

          1. Charles 9 Silver badge

            Re: Oi Microsoft

            With that kind of attitude, you'd think they'd attach GWX to every single update they provide, including the security updates so that you end up between Scylla and Charybdis. Remove the update to get rid of GWX and you're left open to pwnage.

      2. Tristan

        Re: Oi Microsoft

        GWX control panel

        It's currently going on about 10 machines a week just from me. Either the customer's complaining about the constant nagging or I've just had to revert the machine as it'd been upgraded and had ground to a halt.

        1. Flatpackhamster

          Re: Oi Microsoft

          Another upvote for GWX control panel which I am rolling out for my entire customer base (which hasn't already been sucked in to the maw). Found out about it this week. It's a great tool. Much like the marketing team who came up with this MS wheeze. Great tools, all of them.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Angel

        Re: Oi Microsoft

        "Anyone know of a 'Backtrack and Nuke' app I can download and apply to Win10 reminders?"

        https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows

      4. Mark 85 Silver badge

        @ChrisG -- Re: Oi Microsoft

        This seems to be doing it for me: http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Oi Microsoft

        Here:

        https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows

        Also, disable GXW in the registry:

        registry:

        Software, Microsoft, Policies, make a GWX key, then add a 32bit dword disablegwx =1

  7. swschrad

    spyware is more trustworthy than Microsoft

    these weasels lock you out of other upgrades when they set the gorilla WNX back in your life. I have been muttering for a few years how Microsoft thinks they own MY machine, MY files, MY preferred setups. now they have proven it. bastards should send me the money I paid for the laptop before they do this crap. at the courthouse, I might very well win with a claim of class-B theft.

  8. Pompous Git Silver badge
    Happy

    it has become clear that Windows users aren't being offered the upgrade, so much as having it rammed down their throats.

    More like rammed up our arses without lubricant!

    Happy face 'cos I finally found a DVB TV tuner for the HTPC that will work with Linux. Hopefully it will arrive before Xmas...

    1. Preston Munchensonton
      Pint

      Funny, I've had a tuner for a few years now:

      http://amzn.to/1Noa6mK

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Funny, I've had a tuner for a few years now:

        There's a small difference between "exists" and "available" for purchase. Affordability also comes into this. Mwave are selling Leadtek WinFast PxPVR2200 PCI-E for $AU1,309.98 for example. That's rather more than a Philips 40" UHD monitor costs (~$AU1,000)! In the event, the device I purchased (Hauppauge MINISTICKUSB) cost $AU64.38. Fingers crossed...

      2. P. Lee

        >Funny, I've had a tuner for a few years now:

        >http://amzn.to/1Noa6mK

        I love my one of these. I moved to it from a Hauppage PVR-350 and I've been really happy with it.

        It works with MythTV on OSX too, apparently, if you're that way inclined - I haven't tried that for a few years though.

    2. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re Tuners...

      I'm fairly sure most of em infact do work. Or at least should work by now. But, I traded up my VDR HTPC for a Droid Box. Since Astra 2 shrunk its beam outside of Europe. Thankfully though most Brit channels are carried under IPTV.

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Re Tuners...

        I'm fairly sure most of em infact do work.

        I do not for an instant doubt that. Problem is I already own two that definitely don't work with Linux Mint. Purchasing one that might work seemed an inferior option to purchasing one that is known to work. It doesn't even need to be terribly sophisticated. There's only one channel we can be bothered watching most of the time. If what's on is shite we read, listen to radio, watch a DVD, do something very private that makes us wish we were in our 30s...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      DVB-T is indeed reasonably well supported even from T2 devices but DVB-T2 ("HD") support is still patchy.

      http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T2_USB_Devices

      E.g. MN88472/MN88473 drivers for the ubiquitous cheapo "Astrometa" sticks ( http://blog.palosaari.fi/2014/09/naked-hardware-18-astrometa-amdvb-t2-v2.html ) are still languishing in staging: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/drivers/staging/media/mn88473

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And you thought Ballmer was bad...

    Nadella makes him look like a rank amateur.

    1. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re: And you thought Ballmer was bad...

      Are you sure you ment it that way? 'Cause as bad as Steve was. Nadella is far more toxic to MicroSoft then he ever was.

      Actually upon rereading it more slowly I got it. The first time I read it it scanned like a pro Nadella post.

  10. Keef

    They're not helping themselves here.

    I've got Win 10 on 3 of my home machines.

    It's reasonably quick to boot and shut down, light on resources and very stable.

    Classic Shell is still in use for me but I could probably do without it.

    Spybot Anti-Beacon is something I've started running as I'm too lazy to keep up with all the tweaks Microsoft keep making, I have a reasonable amount of trust in Spybot so this suits me for home use. I'd even go as far as to say Win10 is okay to friends who ask for advice, with the above caveats of course.

    I don't have enough experience of deploying Windows in a business environment to have an informed opinion on that aspect, but I think I'd be a bit cautious.

    However ramming it down peoples throats is counter productive I feel, they are unnecessarily alienating those they want to entice. A non-tech forum I visit is full of comments on Win10 being rubbish and to be avoided, to the point that some people are wanting to go back to the good ol' days of XP. As I said, it's a non-tech forum, but it does go to show what happens when you fail to get the message across properly and also try to 'bully' people in to thinking the way you want them to.

    Stubborn lot those Humans.

    1. dan1980

      Re: They're not helping themselves here.

      @Keef

      Well and good and none of this has anything to do with how good the Win 10 OS is in and of itself. It's all about how MS views the users and the attitude the take with regards to how much control those users should have.

      You say you have 3 home PCs running windows 10 and I'm glad that they're running well, but that's 15GB worth of downloads that happened and to many, they happened without their knowledge and without any meaningful approval.

      That's more than my sister's download cap and for my father, who lives in a semi-rural area and can only get ADSL1, it would not breach his cap but it would take WEEKS and slow his connection to a crawl. My partner travels and uses a tethered phone for access while away and if this downloaded while using that connection, that would be a ridiculous extra charge.

      MS might SAY that it's all spelled out and obvious but it's really not, as evidenced by the fact that I have people who just didn't realise that it was going to download or install and have literally turned on their PC and seen the new OS and been utterly unprepared for that.

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: They're not helping themselves here.

        That's more than my sister's download cap and for my father, who lives in a semi-rural area and can only get ADSL1, it would not breach his cap but it would take WEEKS and slow his connection to a crawl. My partner travels and uses a tethered phone for access while away and if this downloaded while using that connection, that would be a ridiculous extra charge.

        My experience with DLing W10 was that MS weren't consuming much bandwidth/hr which is why I was so surprised when my mobile data was all used up. Stealthy bastards. I still can't understand why a single, voluntary DL should be followed up by pushing seven more copies that served no purpose other than to really fucking piss me off!

      2. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: They're not helping themselves here.

        "You say you have 3 home PCs running windows 10 and I'm glad that they're running well, but that's 15GB worth of downloads that happened and to many, they happened without their knowledge and without any meaningful approval."

        Nah, just 5GB. Download it once and install it to a USB stick. Voila, you can install on as many (or as few) machines as you wish while only downloading it once.

        1. Paul Shirley

          Re: They're not helping themselves here.

          @Charles 9: "Download it once and install it to a USB stick"

          Completely missing the way it silently downloads the install image to C: before offering the upgrade prompt, without bothering to check if you downloaded the media install or copied it to anywhere else. Or it's fscking outrageous habit of redownloading it till you give up deleting the files.

          1. Charles 9 Silver badge

            Re: They're not helping themselves here.

            Hmm, never had that happen to me, and I've checked.

            1. Pompous Git Silver badge

              Re: They're not helping themselves here.

              Hmm, never had that happen to me, and I've checked.

              And that excuses MS for doing to those of us it has happened to how? I think you need to get a grip!

              1. Charles 9 Silver badge

                Re: They're not helping themselves here.

                Nothing. It's just I've never seen it from my personal first-hand experience, which tells me either people are doing it wrong or are lying. Until I see otherwise firsthand, which is the only viewpoint I can trust, my point stands.

                1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

                  Re: They're not helping themselves here.

                  "I've never seen it from my personal first-hand experience, which tells me either people are doing it wrong or are lying."

                  Er ... GOSH !! That's quite an ego you've got there.

                  It looks like some of the other posters here *have* seen it happen, so by your logic that must mean that you are doing it wrong or lying.

                  1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                    Re: They're not helping themselves here.

                    It looks like some of the other posters here *have* seen it happen, so by your logic that must mean that you are doing it wrong or lying.

                    Perhaps he applied some lubricant to his anus and reckons we should have done the same ;-)

            2. Roland6 Silver badge

              Re: They're not helping themselves here.

              Hmm, never had that happen to me, and I've checked.

              Well if you have your Windows systems set up so that you don't automatically download all updates (or use WSUS) and have disabled the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP) then you probably haven't seen any prompts appearing urging you to upgrade to Windows 10.

              However, for every Win7 and 8 machine I've seen that has been in the possession of a 'normal' (ie. non-IT) user, I've seen them sporting the GWX icon in the notifications area and several had begun the Win10 download. Fortunately, GWX Control Panel (v1.6.0.1 released 24-Nov-2015) makes sorting these systems out very straight-forward.

              Basically, I now install GWX Control Panel as standard and tell people that when they want to update to Win10, call me. The phone has yet to ring, although I do anticipate some to jump in April/May 2016.

              Finally, with respect to individual systems performing a standalone download from WUP, the only reliable way to confirm this is on the individual PC's to use a firewall that monitors connections (eg. Agnitum Outpost), and hence displays a connection to relevant MS servers that is downloading GB's. Alternatively, you can enable connection logging on your router (eg. Draytek) and analyse these logs.

    2. RoboticRabbit

      Re: They're not helping themselves here.

      Are you sure they're humans? Could be a revolt of rogue AI's going on trying to take over the planet's computer systems. They certainly act like bots.

    3. Adam 1

      Re: They're not helping themselves here.

      I have one Windows 7 machine and one Windows 10 machine at home. I have nothing against Windows 10 once you disable the, er, telemetry. It is a genuine improvement on 8 and 8.1 that it had beforehand.

      So why haven't I upgraded the micro-atx box that runs Windows 7, is plugged into the TV and has exactly one purpose? Hint Microsoft: a DVD player isn't an adequate substitute for what you are replacing.

    4. Jedit
      Flame

      "It's reasonably quick to boot and shut down, light on resources and very stable."

      I tried installing Windows 10 and found it definitely used less resources than Win7. That's because it disabled my firewall and internet security software.

      Win10 is a virus.

    5. inmypjs Silver badge

      Re: They're not helping themselves here.

      "Win10 being rubbish and to be avoided, to the point that some people are wanting to go back to the good ol' days of XP. As I said, it's a non-tech forum, but it does go to show what happens when you fail to get the message across properly."

      It seems those non-tech people are indeed getting the message. Microsoft are desperate to get as many as are going to running Win 10 ASAP so they can start screwing money out of them. Windows10 is NOT FREE, Windows 10 will be the most expensive Windows ever - probably about £6 a month.

      Not like the plan is even secret - just the detail of how, how much, and when. Bait and switch and so many are/have taken the bait despite things like the windows update farce looking like an enormous neon sign with BAIT written on it.

      If you are running windows 10 you are a fool. Microsoft asked you to bend over and you said yes please and thank you.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Meh

    I'm beginning to feel left out; I've never seen any of these nag screens on any of my several Windows 7 and 8.1 machines, in fact I had to go out of my way to install 10 on the couple of machines I did want to install it on. Of course, I only let Windows Update install important updates. If you let Microsoft install anything they consider "Recommended", you can hardly complain. Yeah, yeah, bring on the downvotes, but that's the truth right there.

    1. Keef

      Re: Meh

      Maybe you should go to the pub instead of waiting for a nag screen to appear.

      As you are trolling for downvotes I've given you an upvote. That's the truth right there.

      1. slooth
        Pint

        Re: Meh

        I go to the Nags Head. Great pub. I don't think they have a screen, but the pool table is great.

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: Meh

          I go to the Nags Head. Great pub. I don't think they have a screen, but the pool table is great.

          But what are the barmaids like? If I wanted to be nagged, I'd stay home with the missus ;-)

    2. Uffish

      Re: Recommended

      Recommended by Microsoft computer security team or the like ok, but recommended by Microsoft business plan for making more profits team no. The difference is ethical - it's a pity that Microsoft has lost its way on that front.

      1. nematoad Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: Recommended

        "The difference is ethical - it's a pity that Microsoft has lost its way on that front."

        You forgot the "Joke" icon on your post.

        If you can think back a few years, MS was convicted of illegally using their monopoly position to lock out and destroy competitors.

        So no, MS hasn't lost its way on the ethical front. It never was there.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Stopping the nonsense.

    If for whatever reason, you choose to stay with the OS you are running now:

    • BlockWindows (github link) is a set of scripts that, when executed, uninstall and disable most of the Windows 10-related updates on Windows 7 and 8/8.1.
    • GWX Control Panel is a (proprietary?) tool for controlling the GWX process. The download is here.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Pint

      Re: Stopping the nonsense.

      BlockWindows also sorts out Windows 10 installations and their, er, "telemetry" without needing to download and execute anything proprietary/binary/opaque/spooky

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'll take the other option thanks Microsoft, upgrade to Linux.

  14. Palpy
    Joke

    Updates, mysterious and constant!

    Every few days, I read another VULN IN UR SOFTWARES! article on El Reg, and every few days -- bing!, comes a new update alert. I run 'em, they install, and the computer machine continues to function as before. What is going on? <panik panik!!> Oh, wait, I run Ubuntu*. Never mind then.

    *In point of fact, Ubuntu has not made me a better guitar player. As evidenced in Audacity, my timing still veers between stagger and stumble.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Updates, mysterious and constant!

      I find that without some sort of timing reference I drift like the LC oscillator in a 70's era radio transceiver.

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Updates, mysterious and constant!

        I find that without some sort of timing reference I drift like the LC oscillator in a 70's era radio transceiver.

        I discovered in school that I can't even clap on the beat. My mind wanders almost immediately. (I can't just sit and listen to music without making a tremendous effort to stave off boredom, either.)

        I can't stay in key when singing, either. I sing my granddaughter to sleep when she stays over; I assume she rushes into the arms of Morpheus to escape my singing. "Stay awake and it's another verse for you!"

  15. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    Respectable?

    Respectable is not an adjective I would use to describe Slurp; criminal is better. The problem with foisting an update on unsuspecting users is many wonder what broke particularly if some important application fails to work. Not good for customer relations but great for a few weeks of extra cash while moonlighting to upgrade to W7 or Linux.

    The proper strategy is not to foist it on the masses but make it available to users at their convenience it obtain.

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Respectable?

      "The problem with foisting an update on unsuspecting users is many wonder what broke..."

      Why mince words? There are *definitely* devices out there that have driver support for Win7 but not Win10. (It is really rather common with printers and scanners, despite the fact that these are exactly the sort of devices that should be just a user-space protocol layer over a standard USB link.) If you forcibly upgrade everyone, you *will* deprive some of your users of the use of some of their hardware. It is really only a matter of time before the lawyers get involved.

  16. imanidiot Silver badge

    And another notch further down

    on the "how likely am I to ever install Windows 10" scale...

    1. P. Lee

      Re: And another notch further down

      >on the "how likely am I to ever install Windows 10" scale...

      Ah, Mock the Week - how appropriate!

      My guess is that MS is wants to get to the point where there is no excuse to not have upgraded. If you haven't by then, you'll be stung for a big upgrade fee when you finally do. It's the old, "if you want it that badly, you'll pay for it" ploy.

      If W10 is licensed to the device, you may end up paying for a license for a device which only has a year or two of life left.

  17. arctic_haze Silver badge

    OK but is there a solution to make Windows Update work?

    My wife's Windows 7 laptop does not get any updates for a few months now. Checking it with antivirus software, using Microsoft tools and fixes for Windows Update did not work. Third party scripts re-registering all the required DLLs and their dog had no visible effect. Even installing manually the newest Windows Update solved nothing.

    I know my wife is safe from Windows 10. But maybe there is a way to install all the security updates without doing it manually which is a process I do not wish my worst foes.

    1. RoboticRabbit

      Re: OK but is there a solution to make Windows Update work?

      Doing it manually is not so bad really for a few machines. You just have to read the little peculiar descriptions first (thats the hard part).

      Upgrade (ha!) to Windows 10 and never worry again about updates because they'll break something for you every few weeks whether you like it or not. There's a reason its Windows 10. Roman numeral X as in WRONG!

      1. Stoneshop Silver badge

        Re: OK but is there a solution to make Windows Update work?

        Doing it manually is not so bad really for a few machines. You just have to read the little peculiar descriptions first (thats the hard part).

        With my dad's laptop, neither semi-automatic nor manual update methods had worked at all, since about early March. MS offers one or two tools to try and fix it, as well as other repair methods, but all of them worked as well as trying to push shit uphill. In the end it was reinstall time, after which the List of Verboten Updates and the Do Not Want registry settings were applied and the update method set to Manual, And I Mean It.

        Maybe I should clone the disk, put it in a spare machine here and let it check for updates once a week or so, see what tricks MS are deploying next.

        Which, to be honest, ought not be necessary.

      2. 0765794e08
        Meh

        Re: OK but is there a solution to make Windows Update work?

        "There's a reason its Windows 10. Roman numeral X as in WRONG!"

        A very shrewd observation, sir. Also X as in CROSS, because, well, Win10 is making a lot of people very cross indeed.

  18. Dig

    Won't let me upgrade.

    Been trying to do it for months on Sons Toshiba but it just gets to the end of the install then says something wrong and rolls back. Doh

    1. Vic

      Re: Won't let me upgrade.

      Been trying to do it for months on Sons Toshiba but it just gets to the end of the install then says something wrong and rolls back

      Think yourself lucky...

      I had a machine come in for repair yesterday. The owner had agreed to "upgrade" from WIn7. I don't know exactly what happened, but the upgrade failed, and the machine doesn't boot any more.

      I tried the "rollback" option - it doesn't work. Not at all. I tried "boot to another OS" - that doesn't work either. All options just leave me with a dialogue box that something went wrong, and I should click "OK" to turn the machine off.

      I went in with a Fedora bootable, and I found the HDD backup directory. I've run through the files there with cabextract - they seem to be Windows 10 files. It looks like it's got a backup of a failed installation...

      So it looks like I'm going to have to carve the data off the old partition (which is not currently mountable) and hope her data is still alive.

      Ho hum. If ony this were chargeable...

      Vic.

    2. Stoneshop Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Won't let me upgrade.

      Windows user, eh? If it fails, just try again, maybe it won't fail this time.

  19. Nathan 13

    Even overclockers

    Cant sell me a decent laptop without W10, even if I wanted to spend £1500 on one.

    I will not use W10, I would rather revert to an abacus.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Even overclockers

      I would rather shove an abacus up my arse.

  20. Someone Else Silver badge
    Mushroom

    I don't wonder at all

    The latest pop-up screen is yet another tactic by Microsoft to increase updates, but you have to wonder where the line is between helpful prodding and infuriating nagging.

    Microsoft, look behind you...there's the line!

    1. Vic

      Re: I don't wonder at all

      Microsoft, look behind you...there's the line!

      You might like to offer them the use of a telescope for that...

      Vic.

      1. CanadianMacFan

        Re: I don't wonder at all

        I think we're in the realm of booking time on the Hubble.

  21. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    I don't understand

    Why is there not a massive class action lawsuit aimed at the buggers?

    1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: I don't understand

      Give it time, basically someone has to have judge break the EULA in the US (difficult but impossible) or it has to occur in Europe. When it happens, it will be popcorn time to those of us who have migrated permanently away.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Try spending hours downloading the W10 update over a slow unreliable satellite link to a remote European village only to find, once you've finally upgrade, your network drivers are borked! You've then got to drive miles to find someone who can help get the machine back online.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I own an iMac...

    And I've just given myself a small pat on the back. Well done Mr Coward, well done!

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Forced upgrades

    Not such a great statisic in Microsoft PR marketshare spin.

    I foolishly did the update from 7 and hate it.

  25. JLV Silver badge

    funnily enough...

    I have an Asus RoG gamer notebook, with Windows upgraded from Home to Pro (gamer notebooks are killer dev machines with lots of horsepower).

    I have tried to upgrade to Windows 10, but it keeps on routing me into the Windows 10 Home area which then conks out when it figures out that this is not a Windows Home machine. I am sure there is a way to get what I want, haven't quite figured it out yet.

    So, my experience is the opposite, can't seem to upgrade to Windows 10. And kinda holding my breath what doing so will be doing to my Ubuntu multiboot as well.

    I'll bring it to the MS store for them to figure it out after the holidays. Really don't see as worth my time chasing down which illogical succession of screens MS is using to effect this action - it will change again by the next version, I am sure*. I remember having a devil of a time finding the upgrade to Windows 8 Pro for example because it wasn't in the app store but elsewhere.

    * I was less than impressed with seeing that a ton of settings have been moved, again, from Windows 8.0 to 8.1, after being moved from 7 to 8. MS needs to understand that there is lot of technical debt, in terms of worthless howto and guidance docs online, when they change basic management steps from release to release. Sure, setting up your system with the help of bash commands can be seen as a bit primitive, but at least that knowledge, once acquired, remains useful for longer periods than constantly changing program locations. Powershell to the rescue?

    1. Stoneshop Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: funnily enough...

      And kinda holding my breath what doing so will be doing to my Ubuntu multiboot as well.

      I had a couple of cases where a Windows (re-)install disabled Grub, but only that; it didn't actually b0rk it. Booting the install media for any of the Linuxes on the disk, going into Repair mode, pointing it at the boot record and telling it 'go fix' invariably solved it, with maybe a bit of manual prodding here and there. It can even be as simple as noting what the active partition is beforehand, then changing it back after WIndows has claimed it.

  26. Oldgroaner

    When the trust is gone

    This is Microsoft's Volkswagen moment -- while we anoraks knew they were evil, naive users didn't know and trusted them. Now the trust is gone and can never be restored. During the last fortnight I have installed GWX control panel and Spybot anti-beacon on 9 machines owned by elderly computer users who were on the brink of a change they didn't want -- and many of whom had had 5 or more gig of downloads foidsted on them.

    1. Mikel

      Re: When the trust is gone

      Keep running their software. They'll get you eventually.

    2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: When the trust is gone

      Nah Ford Pinto moment, Pintos had a bad habit going up in flames when rear-ended. Or GM Vega aka Vaguely moment - a car so badly designed and built that you could vaguely see it through the smoke screen it produced. VW is barely low minor leagues compared to those two.

  27. Graham Marsden
    Devil

    "Fire up any computer running Windows 7 or 8...

    "... and you'll be used to a message or three inviting you to upgrade to Windows 10."

    Not mine...!

  28. Mikel

    Want it or not, here it comes

    Something about enjoying role playing simulated submissive surprise sex with power tools...

    This is it. They are out of dirty tricks to pull short of broadcast updating everybody involuntarily, and Legal would never approve that. Come January the W10 install rate will therefore plummet, and the cat is out of the bag: people don't want it.

  29. Steven Roper

    Someone seriously needs to put a gun to Nadella's head and say,

    "What part of the word NO do you not understand motherfucker!!!"

    1. RoboticRabbit

      I'm picturing Samuel L. Jackson in a "Pulp Fiction" type scene there.

      1. Hans 1 Silver badge

        >>"What part of the word NO do you not understand motherfucker!!!"

        >I'm picturing Samuel L. Jackson in a "Pulp Fiction" type scene there.

        Where did you read about motherfucker in the bible ?

        Samuel L. Jackson would say something like

        Windows 10 rejected by the users

        22 ¶ And it was at Redmond the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

        23 And SadNad walked into the campus park in Solomon's porch.

        24 Then came the users round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be to rip us off, tell us plainly.

        25 SadNad answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my board's name, they bear witness of me.

        26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

        27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

        28 And they bend over for everything I need to stuff up their backsides ...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

          Is that translated from the original Windows in Welsh welly-up screen?

    2. Zoopy

      I think at this point, people would prefer to just shoot Nadella in front of his successor, and then do what you suggested to his successor.

  30. Kev99

    Watch out for update KB3112343. Microsoft claims it makes it easier to upgrade from 7 to 10. Read the entire knowledge base article and you get an entirely different picture.

  31. Diodelogic

    We don't know the same people

    I've talked to 32 people, as of two days ago, who have upgraded their systems from Windows 7 or 8.x to Windows 10. A couple had some minor issues, since resolved. One knew what I was talking about when I mentioned "telemetry" and none accepted an offer to block said telemetry. None of them knew what Linux is. These are your bog-standard, everyday users, a few of whom use computers at work--Windows again--and none of whom are IT professionals. The kind of people who, when you ask what operating system they are using, answer "Internet Explorer" or "Firefox" or whatever browser they prefer.

    All the noise and debate concerning Windows 10 is apparently just passing them by...

    1. Tristan

      Re: We don't know the same people

      Interesting, as 13 installs I have seen so far:

      1 - I did, as I need to get pro and windows 7 anytime is dead

      1 - upgraded accidentally, was confused but missed the 31 day revert deadline so we binned the machine and replaced it with a new windows 7 one. He's 90 and windows 7 will likely outlive him.

      1 - upgraded and died, requiring reinstall

      3 - upgraded and so slow I had to crawl through the revert option which took hours. Think 2 minutes for the start menu.

      6 - upgraded accidentally and wanted to know how to make it go back to how it was, as either something didn't work (printers) or something had vanished (anyone using windows live mail will not enjoy having it all vanish)

      1 - I upgraded a crappy tablet which required clearing all my stuff off its tiny 32gb c drive and it seems to mostly work apart from headphone jack detection is really unreliable and I can't "play to" my network media devices any more. Which is really all I use the tablet for.

      So, not a fan.

      I have yet to meet someone

      1. Diodelogic

        Re: We don't know the same people

        Whoa, I think I have given the wrong impression by what I wrote initially--let me try to correct that.

        My real point was the number of people who did the upgrade to Windows 10 without the slightest idea of what was involved, nor of what Windows 10 contained. I wasn't really happy about that, but I am somewhat convinced that the reason nobody was concerned was because the upgrade went reasonably smoothly. They had no reason to go chasing information on the 'net.

        The other remarks were more to show how non-IT-oriented these folks are. It may be difficult for the average IT pro to understand just how far away from being IT-pros people often are.

        My apologies for a misleading post, if you were misled. Totally my fault.

        1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

          Re: We don't know the same people

          Truthfully, most "upgrades' are trouble free. It is the ones that bork a driver or an application that cause noise. How many are there - no one really knows. The other issue is clean are the W10 updates. Slurp says they are rolling out new features, etc. which means it is functionally a rolling release. Weird things will break and most users do not have the skills to fix them over time. That may be the rest of the ice berg Slurp is attempt to side swipe ala the Titanic.

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: We don't know the same people

            Weird things will break and most users do not have the skills to fix them over time.

            True, but even though I certainly possess the requisite skills, I have better things to do with my time. I'm actually quite grateful to MS for forcing me to change my OS of choice to Linux Mint.

        2. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: We don't know the same people

          the upgrade went reasonably smoothly

          There in lies a risky assumption! A lot depends upon the particular machine, the hardware it contains and which security software and printer drives are installed. I expect many users simply okay the update with little thought for things going wrong... so yes it is wonderful that many do update with few problems, but for those that fail recovery isn't always straight-forward.

          I have had to repair systems with failed updates mainly because: the user got bored with waiting on a system that seemed to be doing nothing, the user was in the middle of work and tried to kill the MS malware that was taking over their machine, the update failed and failed to rollback.

          I've had updates go smoothly mainly because I was able to prepare the machine (eg. uninstall printer drivers and security software) and simply leave it alone for the hours it needed to sort itself out.

          Personally, I now install GWX Control Panel and point out that Win7 & 8.1 will be supported until 2020 (GWX Control Panel doesn't disable critical updates) and that they are likely to be replacing their current system(s) before then; so if they want we can arrange a convenient time for a Win10 install.

    2. MrTuK

      Re: We don't know the same people

      That is the scary part, that it won't be the people with knowledge that decide what OS is good for us but the people without any whatsoever will be doing the deciding for us - sheesh what OS are you running Firefox or Internet explorer !!!!!

      I find it quite easily to explain what Telemetry is, you know that any site you look at that they can and will use that information to target specific ad's to you, so don't look at any porn sites or do a search for stuff like that as you will be pummeled with porn ad's which is really bad if you only have one account for the whole family !

    3. Shufflemoomin

      Re: We don't know the same people

      Well, I upgraded my own desktop, my transformer tablet and my girlfriend's laptop. My desktop had issues with the drivers for my Nvidia 970 which took some fannying about, both the transformer tablet and laptop didn't have a working trackpad after install which needed a USB mouse to fix and the laptop didn't have sound, which took me over an hour on Google to fix. So, it went far from smoothly for me. I can't wait for the inevitable call from my elderly father when the upgrade happens without him understanding what's going on and I don't have the ability to remote in and fix any issues.

      Add me to the growing list of people who are considering Linux. I really, really don't want to have to reboot into Windows just to play games but I'm getting to the point where I'll put up with the inconvenience just so I don't rely on Microsoft products all the time.

  32. Andrew Jones 2

    And if you are already on Windows 10 - you get to cope with the wonderful joy of EVERY update mucking up settings! I have to reset my screensaver after every update, I've had to reset the power saving features on one laptop after the last round of updates because it is determined to hibernate of several hours of not being used and now - 3 laptops after the last update skip the screensaver entirely and after 15 minutes just revert to the lock screen. It's getting really really annoying - and considering all the laptops are supposed to be synced via the Microsoft cloud - it's entirely unreasonable that settings are being changed even though MY settings should be saved at Microsoft.

    1. Paul Shirley

      Yes, trying to think of any reason last weeks updates should have set desktop icons to LARGE and reset every damn explorer view preference to MS defaults. It's a PIA getting the steaming POS to remember *my choices* between reboots without MS deliberately wiping them.

      And I've noticed doubled up drive entries in the navigation pane again, after fixing that last week.

      Leave my settings alone Microsoft.

  33. jz879546213

    Full Circle

    The circle is now complete and we users are now, again, being chained to mainframes albeit in a more 'polite' way. "Sure, you have that now but what about -this-? We're doing -you- a favor and just giving you a new Windows!" The disguise of convenience in this ever expanding world of technological wonders is the sweet nectar that draws in the unsuspecting to this metaphorical Venus Fly Trap. All of your data, shared across the multitude of digital devices that are so commonly owned, right there when you need it! Between your smartphone, smart TV, PC, and perhaps even your own little IoT infrastructure, who could say no to such convenience? But all that data has to be stored somewhere. A funny thing about big clouds; when it rains, it pours.

    This present situation is one that I find to be ironic, (and I am fully prepared to be corrected on using that word) considering Microsoft's instrumental role in what could be considered a liberation of personal computing. While not the only player in the symphony of the computer revolution, they certainly helped bring in an amount of standardization into a mire of unique and individual personal home computers. A world where attempting to connect one to the other could potentially cause shorting circuits or over-volts, or both.

    Now that, for the most average user, PC hardware technology has hit a plateau the impetus cycle of hardware upgrades is now relegated to those relatively few who need the number-crunching processing power that the latest and greatest has to offer. This, as someone who can fondly remember the 25-30 3.5inch (90mm) floppy disk installation process of Windows 95 on the family's 486 all-in-wonder Compaq, I think terrifies Microsoft. The OEM market is saturated and PC sales are, as far as I know, fairly stagnate.

    As such, they have to create a new source of revenue along with justifying yet another version of Windows (let alone pay for it) and are taking note of Google particularly with the ad driven or at the very least data mining being said source of new revenues. All that data in one place is just ripe for the algorithms to learn, dissect, and then disseminate to the highest bidder, and all faster than you can blink your eye.

    It may take time, but I think that Microsoft's own headfirst sprint into this area will the fracturing that will create change, and perhaps, the toppling of their own industry-standard crown.

    1. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Re: Full Circle

      users are now, again, being chained to mainframes albeit in a more 'polite' way.

      It sounds like you imagine hundreds of people enslaved in long shifts for pittance to service vast machines, with small children forced to crawl around cleaning dust from live circuits.

      Are you sure you're not confusing mainframes with early industrial looms and spinning machines?

      Although maybe not....

      1. Wensleydale Cheese
        Unhappy

        Re: Full Circle

        "It sounds like you imagine hundreds of people enslaved in long shifts for pittance to service vast machines"

        cf spending countless hours on Facebook et al, supplying them with content and metadata for free.

        1. Stoneshop Silver badge
          Big Brother

          Re: Full Circle

          cf spending countless hours on Facebook et al, supplying them with content and metadata for free.

          For extremely tolerant definitions of 'free', although most people don't consider trading their personal data for 'entertainment' as a big deal anyway even if they're aware of it in the first place.

    2. LDS Silver badge

      Re: Full Circle

      Today, most of the efforts are in taking the P away from PC. And this culture shift at MS is very worrying. But I'm not surprised it comes from a guy like Nadella, his contempt for customers is part of his roots. Hope he will last less than Ballmer.

  34. Starlite Lemming

    Bring on the law suits!

    I'm eagerly awaiting the first law suit, when the forced upgrade results in expensive data loss.

    If you don't give someone the option, you implicitly assume the responsibility.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Bring on the law suits!

      You're forgetting that Microsoft covered their butts my making the upgrade automatic only on home installations. Enterprise installations are neither eligible for the free upgrade nor given the automatic upgrade, last I checked. So if a business computer gets snarled by an automatic update, it will be assumed to be a Home installation in a business: against the license, so there will be some questions. As for the loss of data in a home, a home user would have a weaker standing because home data accumulation is less likely to be of enough value to warrant a suit.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Pint

    This calls for a Star Wars quote...

    The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems => users will slip through your fingers.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This calls for a Star Wars quote...

      Who cares? They have a bag underneath for that called "Irrreplaceable software and/or software with no analogues elsewhere." That list includes a lot of recent games, BTW, so unless Valve gets with the program and starts using WINE to expand its Linux Steam games list (which is weird given they're so bent on moving everyone out of Windows), many of us are kinda stuck here.

  36. Winkypop Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Memories of 1998

    Maybe MS could get the buttons to dance around the screen, or have a bunch of animated monkeys; "hit the monkey to win a free upgrade"....

    It's not funny anymore.

  37. Michael Thibault

    What.the.fuckingskincrawl!

    "it's not the kind of tactic you'd expect from a respectable firm like Microsoft"

    Re: the quote: I'm torn on deciding which is more wrong or repugnant: "respectable" or "not [what] you'd expect". There's a strange parallel between the structure of the sentence quoted and the tactic referenced by it.

    Re: the tactic of 'you can answer "yes", or you can answer "yes, in a minute or two"'--I don't know which way to spit!* There's definitely something extremely unpleasant creeping in from another universe, and I'm hoping we'll be witness to its death by fierce fire before long.

    * That Microsoft would openly be so slimy makes me want to take a shower.

  38. Mark 85 Silver badge

    Trust and MS

    Those are two things that should never, ever be used together. It's a bigger oxymoron than "Congressional Ethics".

  39. Antonios Karantze

    Im using a Sony Vaio that Sony has declared as 'cant be upgraded' because the hybrid graphics chip. Sony say No, Microsoft say Yes.

    If the laptop is borked, will MS fix it?

    1. dogged

      Take a backup.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        They've already got my back up.

      2. Ken Hagan Gold badge
        WTF?

        What kind of person goes on a tech website and downvotes the suggestion that one should take a backup?

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          What kind of person goes on a tech website and downvotes the suggestion that one should take a backup?

          Let me guess! A MS employee?

          What did I win?

          1. Wensleydale Cheese

            "What did I win?"

            Congratulations! You just won a free upgrade!

            :-)

            1. Pompous Git Silver badge

              Congratulations! You just won a free upgrade!

              :-)

              To Linux Mint 17.2! Yippeeee....

          2. dogged

            > Let me guess! A MS employee?

            In this case (since it concerns the possibility or not of upgrading to Win10) more likely an anti-MS advocate.

            We have lots of those. We have lots of anti-* advocates and they don't need reasons or logic or, self-evidently, any technical ability.

            1. TRT Silver badge

              Obviously...

              down voted for stating the obvious.

              Although that means that I've just earned a down vote by doing the same.

        2. Dwarf Silver badge

          Either there is an automatic downvote bot; someone who doesn't understand technology (a marketingbot) or someone who is disconnected from technology and shouldn't be here.

          We all know that sensible posts get downvoted, just see this posting to confirm that.

          1. Steven Roper

            "We all know that sensible posts get downvoted, just see this posting to confirm that."

            If a sensible comment of yours has been downvoted, you might want to go to your comment history and check your other recent comments for downvotes. You might be the target of a Downvote Avenger!TM

            With the rise of the Facebook Like generation I've noticed some people here engage in Downvote Revenge - I don't know what other term to use for it. Basically, something you post pisses someone off so much, they feel it necessary to assuage their anger by clicking to your post history and systematically downvoting all of your posts in sequence regardless of content, just to rack up your downvote count.

            I've had it happen to me in the past; I noticed on one post a while back I got a downvote and a snarky response, and then a day later I suddenly had a single downvote on all several dozen or so posts previous to it. I can only surmise that one person had taken a dislike to me and wanted to show me what-for.

            I consider that an achievement, akin to being able to punch someone in the face through the monitor. The more posts they take the trouble to go back and downvote, the more I know I've gotten under their skin and the more I enjoy the schadenfreude.

            So go back and have a look at your post history. You never know; you might have scored!

            1. Pompous Git Silver badge
              Pint

              The more posts they take the trouble to go back and downvote, the more I know I've gotten under their skin and the more I enjoy the schadenfreude.

              Have an upvote :-)

            2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

              Basically, something you post pisses someone off so much, they feel it necessary to assuage their anger by clicking to your post history and systematically downvoting all of your posts in sequence regardless of content, just to rack up your downvote count.

              God, I hope they automate that process. The thought of someone doing that manually just makes me cringe. This is an IT site - if you're going to be a fucking tool, write a fucking tool to do it for you.

              I have no respect for people who put a lot of grunt work into being bastards. It should be nearly effortless.

            3. Michael Thibault

              The downvote pettiness, or peevishness, described is plausible. People seem to need an outlet...

  40. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Even though it is Free (until Aug 2016)

    They seemingly can't even give it away.

    Says a lot about how the general public see this POS then does it not?

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Boring

    Yes, we get it, MSFT is evil. Their employees are evil, their products are evil, cont.p.94

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Boring

      Not evil, J J Carter, just stupid. Really, really fucking stupid. Are you incapable of understanding that having all of your mobile data allowance and all of your remaining FW allowance used up to push seven redundant copies of W10 is annoying? In the extreme. Being shaped to 256 Kb/s when you're used to 10 Gb/s means not just no streaming video, but even Internet radio becomes unusable.

      Yes, MS can do this and having done so seven times seems almost certain to repeat the stupidity. The only rational solution is to jump ship and I'm glad I did. So I'm grateful to MS which is about as far from calling MS et alia "evil" as can be.

      I'm also grateful that I was one of the first MS Certified Professionals on the planet (before the Certs became bastardised) and one of the first to receive MS Cert training via the Internet. But none of this means I have to put up with stupidity on any scale. Bob Heinlein once wrote: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity". Sadly, in MS's case I did, but never again.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's a shame ...

    ... that I am about to upgrade our main OS to OpenSUSE 42.1 and in the process nuke our Windows 7 dual-boot configuration (we have not booted into Windows for at least 6 months, so why waste the disk space).

  43. RonWheeler

    Killing wife's laptop - grrrrr

    Svchost is going bonkers running wuauclnt at 60% CPU on wife's old laptop since the Win10 upgrade thing. Service restarts and cache flush make it go away for a few days, then it comes back. She didn't have this issue before the Win10 nagware appeared. Coincidence?

    1. Not That Andrew

      Re: Killing wife's laptop - grrrrr

      Not necessarily, I think it's a general Windows thing. My sister's computer was doing that a couple months back, so I ran it through that set of malware detection, removal and repair tools that that one forum I can never remember the name of recommends. They didn't detect anything, but it fixed the problem with svchost.

  44. Camilla Smythe
    Coat

    This will be a bad idea

    Get some EU competition type department to force Microsoft to provide options to install alternative operating systems... as per Internet Explorer.

    Get the Linux Distro folks to scab together some migration scripts.

    Jobs a Good One.

    Mines the one with the Cider stains down the front.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bwahahahahaha, wonderful

    At the moment of this post, 112 messages slagging off Microsoft.

    It's just amazing how much hassle we saved abandoning anything Microsoft makes. Best decision ever, and day by day more justified by sheer savings in keeping security up to date, not having to fight with licenses, not being dependent on a working Internet, not having to work on protecting our information from being snooped - the list just goes on and on. Excellent.

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'd like to know...

    ...where is Ted Kaczynski, now that we really need him?

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: I'd like to know...

      Rotting in the ADX Florence Supermax in Colorado under eight LWOP sentences (he pled guilty to avoid the death penalty). Given he's 73 now, I don't know how much use he'll be even if he was eligible for parole, which he's not.

  47. TRT Silver badge

    Are you sure the Irish registered office is for tax purposes and not the marketing department?

    I know what would cheer you up...

    How about a nice new operating system?

    Ah, go on.

    Go on.

    Are you sure you won't have a nice new operating system? It's all fresh and lovely now.

    Ah go on, sure you will.

    Go on.

    Go on.

    Go on, go on, go on, go on.

    Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on.

    Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, GO ON.

    There, see. You DID want that upgrade after all.

    1. nematoad Silver badge

      Re: Are you sure the Irish registered office is for tax purposes and not the marketing department?

      Upvote for the Father Ted reference.

  48. LHGFLICOD

    Wasn't paying attention...

    I am reasonably certain I hit the download but don't install option (is that even a thing or did I read it wrong). win10 then came along with its size 12's and installed itself. It all looks pretty and everythign but absolutely refuses to recognize either the Ethernet or the wifi cards...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wasn't paying attention...

      absolutely refuses to recognize either the Ethernet or the wifi cards...

      That's only to stop you finding advice on how to remove it again, nothing to worry about. It's not like you were using your computer for anything useful anyway if you were considering the update (why would you otherwise download it?).

  49. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    GWX control panel stops most of this nonsense

    So far GWX control panel has saved me from this attempted force feed of privacy violation and outright control of my PC.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: GWX control panel stops most of this nonsense

      So far GWX control panel has saved me from this attempted force feed of privacy violation and outright control of my PC.

      If you're using Skype you're still happily intercepted. Just so you know.

  50. Cuddles Silver badge

    I don't respond well to force

    I know several people who have installed Win10 and by all accounts it's actually pretty good for the average user. But at this point I really don't care how good it might be. If you offer me a product, I may or may not take you up on that offer. If you try to jam it down my throat, I absolutely will not accept it, and the harder you try to force it on me the harder I will tell you to go fuck yourself.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: I don't respond well to force

      I know of 6 deploys here. Two I had to roll back because the network drivers went titsup, three others the user rolled back because they instantly hated it. And one person liked it.

      Also Darth Nadella is strong in the Force.

      1. Fluffy Cactus

        Re: I don't respond well to force

        I thought his name was "Satan Nutella", but I might be totally wrong.

    2. BitDr

      Re: I don't respond well to force

      They should perhaps take a lesson from the fable of The North Wind and the Sun.

  51. adam payne Silver badge

    Hi Microsoft, please try to understand that I am one of those people that do not want Windows 10.

    Also please try to understand that these nag screens are annoying and are not going to make me upgrade.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You forgot: "Also understand that pretending I "accidentally" chose to upgrade (which is certain to be the next move) will be followed by an immediate complaint to the police under the Computer Misuse Act, because I - DO - NOT - WANT - WINDOWS - 10. Got that?"

  52. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    FAIL

    Linux mint

    here I come.

    PS... I 'use' win10 at work....... swipe the mouse to the side/top/bottom of the screen and your CAD application gets shunted away to display whatever crap is on the m$ crap screen and you lose focus on the fiddly little detail you were working on.

    Even the m$ junkie in the front office hated win 10 so much on his new PC he went and got a copy of win 7

  53. Stewba

    Why don they just remove the red 'X' exit option forcing you to alt-f4 out of the update ... if you're going to try and trick users into updating then be serious about it !

  54. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple

    Straight out of the Apple handbook. They pull the same shit with udpates (often ones which are designed purely to do nothing else but bork their own hardware from two generations ago!).

    "Install Now" or "Install Tonight". (where's the option for "neither, I'd still like to be able to use that iPad 2 tomorrow, F.O.!!!"?).

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Apple

      Re: "Install Tonight"

      I saw this option on the latest iOS 9.n update and thought what an improvement! over only having the "Install Now" option. :)

      But yes, I agree, I still want a working iPad in the morning.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple

      "Install Now" or "Install Tonight". (where's the option for "neither, I'd still like to be able to use that iPad 2 tomorrow, F.O.!!!"?).

      1 - Like all iOS programs, you can simply abort that. It's still responsive to the home button, you can close the Setup screen and AFAIK it won't nag you once it's told you about it (although most updates come for good reasons).

      2 - I have yet to come across an Apple update which has borked kit. Not that that won't happen (Apple is just as fallible), but I found that unless it's a really super urgent fix it pays to wait a few days and see if there are issues. Works on Windows too, by the way, provided you kill off the automatic updates.

  55. Earth Resident

    All you need do is to do a fresh install of Windows 7 to get rid of the nagging. I did that on two PCs and have not seen any Windows 10 annoyances in the subsequent two months.

  56. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is the next update of Windows to be called Genysis? Would answer a lot of questions!

  57. tiggity Silver badge

    needless updates

    In addition to Win 10 sneakiness, too many needless updates foisted on people by default (if they do not sensibly manually alter updates added).

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3102429

    This broke loads of windows systems running Crystal Reports from applications

    How many of those people needed an update that "supports Azerbaijani Manat and Georgian Lari currency symbols" in the UK is debateable, but probably not many.

    1. Fluffy Cactus

      Re: needless updates

      I agree that MS updates on Windows 7 have been doing the following:

      Ruining installations of MS Excel and MS Word 2010.

      Destroying Macros running on MS Excel.

      Making the Win 7 Pro installation that was heretofore

      "Genuine Microsoft" suddenly and strangely become "no longer genuine".

      Ruining other non-Microsoft installations such as Quickbooks.

      I am genuinely disgusted with Microsoft.

  58. Packet

    Optional

    ah yes, the latest in the forced death march to windows 10 saga

  59. Lord Schwindratzheim
    Joke

    Actully this is martketing Brilliance...

    ..when you consider how many people are preferring to BUY WIN7 licences...

  60. MGJ

    What about if you are not compatible?

    The pop up says my laptop is compatible; Sony says otherwise and says W10 will blue screen because of the switchable graphics on my Vaio that Sony say they wont sort or write a new driver for.

  61. Tezfair
    FAIL

    Better expect some invoices then

    If my clients go to work and discover any machine has been upgrade without authority, they better pay my invoices for reverting the computer back and expect a computer misuse knock on the door. And no doubt the clients will be seeking damages for lost work.

    I know for a fact that one of my clients with 60 desktops (workgrouped, no domain, multiple external users), they run software that fails to run under 10. Been there, tried it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Better expect some invoices then

      And no doubt the clients will be seeking damages for lost work.

      Normally I'd say you're flat out of luck if you read the license agreement, but given that MS is relentlessly* trying to ram it down people's throat there may be a case for unauthorised access (Computer Misuse Act). I wish you luck with that one, though, you're probably better off documenting the whole process and publishing it so MS will pay you to shut up and not undo their marketing as it's cheaper for them.

      (*) IMHO in an attempt to get an annual subscription income instead of the one-off shots they've been bleeding out of the population for years which are far less controllable as a revenue stream. Honestly, this whole forcing people seriously smacks of desperation so I'd really like to know what's going on at Redmond. Something has changed.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Better expect some invoices then

        As much as some people would say that "something" was Nadella, it seems Microsoft has been planning this for about 4 years now.

  62. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't get it

    Has anyone from the media even bothered to contact federal authorities to inquire how this illegal SPAMMING of Windows user's is being tolerated? It would appear that this SPAM and thee illegal downloading of files to a person's PC without their written consent, violates law as an illegal PC intrusion. How can Microsoft be allowed to continue this illegal SPAMMING for months now without a cease and desist order being filed by Federal authorities in all countries? It would appear that federal authorities are abdicating their responsibility to stop these violations of law.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I don't get it

      Maybe because the licensing conditions you agreed to before any software from Microsoft basically allow Microsoft to pretty much do anything it wants without being accountable for it? As far as I know, the "it's your own fault" clauses in their EULA do not seem to limit themselves to just updates, MS can pretty much do as it pleases.

      Could be worth investigating, because this could be undone in the UK under laws that prevent the validity of unfair contract terms. Could be quite fun to do, actually. Now that Max Schrems has his win in court, maybe something new to go after? :)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        About time to do that?

        AC wrote

        "As far as I know, the "it's your own fault" clauses in their EULA do not seem to limit themselves to just updates, MS can pretty much do as it pleases.

        Could be worth investigating, because this could be undone in the UK under laws that prevent the validity of unfair contract terms."

        Agree 1000%. EULAs in general are getting ludicrous, and not just from MS. Quite a few require you to use snail mail to contest them. I would argue that a mouse click "to agree" but writing a letter and putting a postage stamp on it to disagree is unfair for a start.

        Time for a test case?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: About time to do that?

          Time for a test case?

          OK, you bring the lawyer, I'll bring the popcorn. I no longer use Windows - yeah, I know, I took the easy way out :)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I don't get it

      Yes, they downloaded the whole MS Win 10 program on my computer, and after people

      complained, they sneakily deleted it. I look at my computer from the root C:\, and I look at

      how much data is on my drive C:\, so when there was suddenly more than 2 GB extra data

      on it, I hunted down what it was, and it was MS. They were caught red-handed, and at some

      point they used another "update" to delete the whole MS Win 10 update.

      I have a brother-in-law who is somewhat of a "sociopath" or "psychopath", and MS acts

      in a similar fashion, without regard to what the law says, and without regard to what the

      prior limits, agreements or limitations were, and then lies about it, and then uses

      more lies to cover up the earlier lies. Uncanny. I have heard rumors that MS pays each

      US representative and senator some $30,000 per year for their re-election campaign fund,

      and apparently, this is enough to shut them up. They, the US reps and senators, are getting

      paid off pretty cheaply, if you think about it.

  63. Gannettt

    "Windows 8? I think you'll find that Windows 7 was the last version before windows 10...Windows 8 has never existed, I've never heard of Windows 8, have you? No, definitely Windows 7 then Windows 10" spoken in a hypnotic monotone while swinging a pocket watch.

  64. ShortLegs

    Installed on my laptop (Thinkpad 420), five or six months ago. Pleasantly surprised, the installation took 20 minutes - much less than the two hours it thought - and all apps continued to work bar Spybot.

    The system boots faster, closes down faster, and seems slightly faster in use.

    And then there was an update last week... Windows 10 v15x6? For some reason, it decided "this machine cannot be updated, Windows 10 will reinstall" or something. No discernible difference in use afterwards. Until I tried Skype. Skype cannot find my webcam. Windows cannot find it. Lenovo have issued an updated driver, dated July 2015, but the files seem identical to the Win7 driver release from circa 2011. Their other solution is to "enable the webcam in the BIOS". Webcam already enabled.

    Tried removing driver, disabling BIOS entry, re-enabling, re-installing. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

    Skype, for me, is a killer app. Its available on all devices my daughter uses, and my partner.

    I'm getting the nag screen on my desktop. No way, I am not confident that my Matrox video drivers will continue to work, and I need them for work.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Skype, for me, is a killer app. Its available on all devices my daughter uses, and my partner.

      Is that "killer app" or "killer of your privacy" app? You do know it's provably intercepted, don't you?

  65. zen1

    Dear microsoft

    Dear MS. Over the past 25+ years we've had lots of good and bad times together. With DOS, you helped me do things I never could have done without the aid of a large mini or small mainframe. You've helped me conquer worlds, destroy aliens and entertained me for months at a time. But alas, all good things come to an end. MS, it's not me, it's you. I've come to expect a certain level of stability on my machine and I'm also quite protective of my data, so I won't be needing access to your cloud, nor will I be in need updates being shoved down to my machines, whether I need them or not, nor will I shed a tear at all of the gigs, if not terabytes, of space I get back from deleting all of the original files the patches supposedly fixed.

    Through the years you gave me access to some fairly decent tools for me to manage, operate, manipulate and compute data, in ways I not thought possible, but after Vista, Windows 8 and now 10, I've come to realize I don't need you telling me how to and where to keep my data nor do I feel the need to help you recover billions of lost revenue, by trying to make up for losses caused by your inability keep up with Google or facebook. It's bad enough you've completely gouged me over the years but for you to turn around and tell me I can have an OS for "free" but then turn around and whore me and my data out to advertisers? I have a problem with that. Call it an irreconcilable difference.

    So, for now, we need to go our separate ways until you get your collective heads out of your asses and realize that it's not my data that's the commodity, your products are. So, so long, it's been real and shoot me an email when you get a CEO who isn't an asshole and actually listens to his customer base.

    1. A Ghost
      Stop

      Re: Dear microsoft

      Ha. Good one!

      I used that 'It's not me, it's you' Dear John a little while back on this very subject. It's apt and to the point.

      Next year I'm getting deeper into Linux. I only installed it a few years ago (Mint 10 Julia) and fell in love. I tinkered and toyed with it installing different flavours including LMDE and LTS versions, setting up dual boot in the process. I bought a copy of BootIt Bare Metal - TeraByte Unlimited (not affiliated so please don't accuse me of spamming) that I have yet to use in anger (used bootit ng years ago and it worked fine), but in anger it _will_ be used in 2016. Bare Metal is a super duper partition manager or should I say boot manager for easily selecting which OS you want to run at boot time.

      I have to keep a copy of win7 on my machine(s) as I have thousands of pounds worth of (legit) audio software that will not run in any other os but Mac (only sometimes). But as I said on my last rant on this very subject, I will freeze my system and clone the drive and that will be that.

      That will have implications for future software purchases though, as it will mean some future software will not run due to api changes and whatnot (you know what I mean about them fixing things that aren't broken, yet). So the only thing I can do is keep on making constant 'freezes' certainly at least every single god damned time I install a new piece of software that may or may not bork the whole system, just so I can roll back in case it does.

      So congrats microshaft, you just went and screwed the small developers who make a meagre living developing for your OS. The point will come, when a certain api change means the system will break. I will then have to revert and see if I can get my money back from the software I bought. Once burned that will be the end of the road. Not my decision, but like has been mentioned, 'it's not me, it's you'.

      I'm ok with this actually as I already have so much audio software I still haven't had time to install it, and what I have I haven't used, or used maybe once or twice. So it will all work out for the best, for both of us eventually. Well, actually, better for me and worse for you, as I won't be running a machine connected to the net. I just built a new DAW and that has internet capability but is not plugged in and constant clones are being made as I add new audio softs. So I will then be totally free from your clutches. You will physically not be able to spy on me any more you low life duplicitous pieces of shit. Simple as.

      I won't surf the net with microsoft, I will use whatever flavour of Mint I decide to. I do graphics as well as audio and you know what, doing graphics is a joy in Linux for me at least, for free as well. I also prefer to use Linux for web development (LAMP), so you won't catch me there either. Audio is the only place you have me locked down. I'll give you that, as unintentional as I am sure it is. You don't give a damn about audio users and have broken win10 for many of them. Sure there are the idiots that brag on gearslutz 'eh dude I always run the latest microshit os you're just a hater dude' - but I'll leave them to it.

      Audio driver software is notoriously low level and random. I had my entire boot sequence wiped out by ASIO multi-client drivers and had to restore grub which did more harm than good. I still get a device not found after a whole fucking week of sorting it (it finds it eventually) and I will sort it out but it might take me another week. And you think I want to buy into this by choice?

      Anyway, game over. All of this is academic, as, as others have pointed out, if you rape my system and my personal life, there will be consequences. I am going to call you criminal from now on. And like I said before, if you find me at a party, don't try to impress me by telling me you work for microshat as I will tell you to fuck off.

      I will also make a point of not using any of your OS on any machines I do for friends and family. My folks are still running winXP, and when the computer finally blows up or gets taken down by a virus, it will be MINT I put on there.

      And I'm ok with that too, and so will they be, because it will be such a pita and paradigm shift that Mint will seem more like windows than windows X does by now. Irony, irony, they've all got it.. wait that's not the one, never mind...

      I will run whatever legacy software they need via Virtual Box and a winxp image. It's not audio so drivers shouldn't be an issue. Some of the games might have to go, but hey ho, as has already been mentioned, nothing lasts forever.

      It WAS fun, but Dear John, it really is over now, and if you contact me again, I will take out that restraining order on you. Should have done it years ago.

      As someone said in a film some time ago, I think, 'This time it's personal'.

  66. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The BBC called, they want their technology journalist back.

    Fire up any computer running Windows 7 or 8 and you'll be used to a message or three inviting you to upgrade to Windows 10.

    That's a pretty naive statement for a so-called tech rag to make.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The BBC called, they want their technology journalist back.

      That's a pretty naive statement for a so-called tech rag to make.

      That's what you get when they start to report facts instead of vendor marketing. Damn journalists.

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: The BBC called, they want their technology journalist back.

        It's not a "fact". It's wrong, pure and simple. There are many Win7 machines where GWX has been disabled.

        And as a bit of hyperbole it's unnecessary. People who have disabled GWX generally have done so because they're annoyed (or worse) by it; so it would have sufficed to note that most Win7 systems suffer from GWX nagging, and if they don't, it's because someone has gone to the trouble of disabling the damned thing.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The BBC called, they want their technology journalist back.

          It's not a "fact". It's wrong, pure and simple. There are many Win7 machines where GWX has been disabled.

          Given the install numbers that MS itself claim, the number of machines with disabled GWX are not even statistically relevant so "wrong" is a matter of opinion (hence my sarcasm).

          As for hyperbole, I personally think that that tiny bit of El Reg hyperbole is justified to offset barrel loads of MS BS, and I prefer their deliberate sarcasm any day over yet another press release with massaged numbers proclaiming happy users. If users were so happy to upgrade to something that appears free, why would they feel so compelled to resort to ways that are pretty close to illegal to ram it down everyone's throat? Surely people would burn their ADSL circuits in their hurry to get it if it was that good?

          You have GWX disabled. Well done. But I don't think you're representative of the vast volume that makes El Reg's comments closer to fact than hyperbole.

  67. H.Winter

    I can't even upgrade to 8.1

    I would be more than keen to accept the upgrade to Win 10 except for the fact that whenever I tried the 8.1 upgrade (currently still on 8) it would fail hard and I'd end up having to completely reinstall 8. If I can't upgrade from 8 to 8.1 I don't know how well I'd fare going from 8 to 10.

  68. DrM
    Mushroom

    "Microsoft has already added the Windows 10 upgrade as an "optional" update in its monthly Patch Tuesday cycle." Yes -- and it was the first time an update on the Optional list was pre-selected, already checked to install.

    Microsoft is wearing out their trust with me. The "updates" are carefully disguised, I must vet each and every update. And the goal -- to get me to update to an OS where I will have no choice on updates -- my butt is getting sore.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Microsoft is wearing out their trust with me.

      You must have been damn faithful then. My trust wandered off into the sunset many, many years ago, but that had mainly to do with what they were doing to education and government, and especially HOW they were doing it. I don't like people lying to me in any way, shape or form, and when dealing with MS reps discussing Microsoft with anyone in a position of authority I discovered it's easy to work out when they're lying.

      It's every time they speak or communicate.

      Ending the use of Microsoft products is not easy, it's about as hard as completely abandoning facebook or giving up on smoking, alcohol or crack (allegedly, not a user myself), and every day you'll have to face other people who don't even realise they're addicted and what life will have in store for them if they go on like this. But there is hope. It can be done.

  69. pmartin66

    Windows 10 on an SSD rules! upgrade as soon as you can. Best MS OS ever.

    My son has a 150 dollar celeron dog laptop. I swapped the drive for a SAMSUNG EVO 850 and Win10 and it is super fast now. Boots in 3-4 seconds and is ready for action immediately on login.

    1. Steve 114

      Downvotes? he's got a point. I put an SSD in an inadequate HP netbook with a 'starter-something' Windows, and it now works acceptably on Win10, with Classic Shell of course. Even runs the challenging security for the full-install OED (principal use-case for that one). Obviously 'GWX Control Panel' protects all the other machines around here.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Downvotes? he's got a point.

        Only as far as swapping a slow HDD with a much faster SSD (and in the case of a netbook ensuring it actually has the maximum 2GB of RAM installed).

        For many people the performance improvement achieved in simply doing that effectively makes any further improvement that could be gained by installing Win10 almost imperceivable and hence not really worth the effort. Particularly as I suspect Win10, like Win7 has dialog boxes that are too long to display on a 1024 x 600 screen.

      2. Vic

        Downvotes? he's got a point

        Perhaps. But look at his posting history...

        Vic.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Windows 10 on an SSD rules! upgrade as soon as you can. Best MS OS ever. … Boots in 3-4 seconds …

      I re-loaded the Linux partition on my work laptop, a Sandy-bridge Core i5 machine with 500GB of spinning rust for non-volatile storage. Debian Jessie boots in about the same amount of time. This is with the hardware the machine shipped out of Dell's factory with.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      My son has a 150 dollar celeron dog laptop. I swapped the drive for a SAMSUNG EVO 850 and Win10 and it is super fast now. Boots in 3-4 seconds and is ready for action immediately on login.

      So your point is that Windows 10 runs fast when you throw resources at it? That's like buying a Landrover to faster transport something with a large block of concrete chained to it instead of just losing the concrete.

      1 - there is no logical connection between you replacing the drive and Win 10 being faster than previous versions unless you measured that too (which you failed to mention, so I don't think so)

      2 - it's still Windows, and if there is one thing Microsoft has not been accused of in the 30+ years of its existence is efficient coding, so I'm not buying it either.

      If you think that laptop is fast, you should see what it does with a resource efficient version of Linux Mint (for instance the XFCE variant). You probably won't believe it's the same laptop.

      Oh, and ..

      3 - Celerons are crap. Irrespective of OS. Giving someone a machine with a Cerelon is telling them you hate them. Your son will move out soon (OK, here I am kidding but a Cerelon sucks. Badly).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "My son has a 150 dollar celeron dog laptop. I swapped the drive for a SAMSUNG EVO 850 and Win10 and it is super fast now. Boots in 3-4 seconds and is ready for action immediately on login."

        Vic has already made the most relevant comment about this :

        http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/containing/2726741

  70. Brian Allan 1

    We'll upgrade to Win 10 when our device drivers are available and MS has put out their 3rd or 4th service pack for the OS. If that is before July 2016 or after, is of little consequence, i.e.: whether we get it free or pay for it. Either way we pay for it by having to fix their bugs and chase drivers, or pay for Win 10 sometime later...

    Win 7 is more than adequate until the end of its life! As it is, we still have two PC's running XP because we can't afford to upgrade hardware. And even support one of our clients on Win 3.1...

  71. MrTuK

    Carrot and now the Stick !

    Well I knew MS would resort to this sooner or later, they want a one system to support as less work for themselves. But, why oh why did they put all the damn data slurping tech into Win 10 and then backport it to Win 7 and Win 8.0/8.1 ?

    It would have been much better to first just get as many people across to Win 10 all happy, and then after 9 months of being used to a this wonderful new OS, just slip it in a Windows update ?

    I am sure that there would have been a lot more people who would have made the leap to Win 10 that way !

    I am one of those people that upgraded to Win 10 when it was first released, but after two months reverted back to my cloned Win 7 SSD, mainly due to all the data slurping spyware installed on Win 10 and from my experience Win 10 on a SDD and Win 7 on a SSD boot as quick as each other (on my Alienware i7 laptop).

    Yes I have blocked or uninstalled an data slurping from Win 7, which is getting quite difficult as they really are trying to slip it in without me noticing, all Win Updates and done manually and if I don't understand what it is then I don't install it !

    All I can say it welcome to George Orwell's 1984 especially with the MOD's PRESTON system aswell !

    Soon sites like this will be banned as they will be seen as a place to vent one's frustration at the Gov of the day and MS and big brother doesn't like that do they ?

  72. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    MSFT fires shotgun at both feet

    I have several middle-aged netbooks...each currently worth about $50.00 USD on Ebay...that run 32-bit Windows 7 "starter". I've been getting the MSFT "free Win 10 upgrade" pop-ups and full-screen blocks for several weeks. So I figured, "Why not try it?" I made a hard drive backup of both systems, using Clonezilla, and then clicked on the "upgrade to Win 10 now" button. To make a long story short, it doesn't work. On either netbook. On netbook #1 I get a screen that says, "Downloading Windows 10 - Getting setup files...". This screen has been visible for nearly three days now. Since late Thursday night...14-Jan-2016. Windows task manager shows zero/nada/zilch network activity. On netbook #2 the install self aborts. It leaves a message on the desktop, in the lower right hand corner, to the effect that the operating system "...is not genuine". Since I purchased the name-brand netbook new, from a reputable vendor, with the OS and considerable bloatware pre-installed, I suspect the MSFT alert is mistaken. So. Two trials with the MSFT "Free Win 10 Upgrade". Two failures. 100% FUBAR. I'll be reloading the original Win 7 starter OS on both systems on Monday. It's a holiday here, and so I'll have the day free.

  73. Fluffy Cactus

    Upgrade tonight

    I suggest that Mickeysoft change their Upgrade to Win 10 screen by including the following options

    Upgrade in the morning

    Upgrade aroung brunch time

    Upgrade as a nooner

    Upgrade in the early afternoon

    Upgrade at Tea Time

    Upgrade while at the Loo

    Upgrade at the Pub

    Upgrade in the Tub

    and what not...

    Of course, it would never occur to them to say: Upgrade to Win10 while making the whole

    "Graphical User Interface" aka GUI "look and work like Win 7. That would be too easy.

    Likewise, it would never enter their mind to say: "For every installed piece of software and for

    every connected piece of hardware (printer, scanner, screen, mouse) that stops working after

    installing Win 10, we will give you 200 British Pounds". Because that would be like "putting your

    money where your big mouth is".

    Plus, it would not ever be possible for them to say: "We want you to be in charge of your computer. We want you to decide how it looks, how it works, how it functions, how many windows it has open, whether you can have tabbed browsing, whether you can play a CD or DVD, what colors it has got, where the control panel is, whether you want this or that update, we want you to be utterly comfortable with Windows 10!"

    Noooo, that would be impossible to promise to customers! Utterly impossible, Raven, Nevermore! Betcha a billion bucks!

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