back to article NZ unfurls proposed new flag

The days of New Zealand's flag bearing the Union Jack may be numbered after citizens voted in favour of a new design featuring the silver fern. The remodelled "black, white and blue" banner, by architect Kyle Lockwood, narrowly topped a poll offering five alternatives, according to the New Zealand Herald. The preliminary …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What's the difference between a duck?

    A change sounds like a good idea, if only to help people outside of New Zealand and Australia to recognise the difference between their two flags.

    1. Unep Eurobats
      Trollface

      Typical

      I'd only just got the hang of the differences between the Australian and New Zealand flags, following the recent rugby world cup. Now if they go and change it I'll no longer be able to show off my superior knowledge to my fellow northern hemisphereans.

      (No need for a new Welsh flag. All English rugby fans know what that looks like, right?)

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: Typical

        It's the one with the smug grinning beast on it. I could swear they suddenly got smugger.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Typical

          Wife's cousin's husband is Welsh. He was a smug beggar before their team's recent rugby performance.

      2. Vincent Ballard
        Joke

        Easy

        The Home Nations flags are easy: you just have to think of the Union Flag. The red axis-aligned cross and its white border is from England; the blue background and diagonal white cross is from Scotland; the diagonal red cross is from Ireland; and the pole is from Wales.

        1. Alistair Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: Easy

          I thought Poles were from Poland actually......

          /ducks and runs

          1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

            Re: Easy - I thought Poles were from Poland actually.

            This is not a joke, but isn't Polish now the second commonest first language in Wales?

        2. John H Woods Silver badge

          No Welsh in the Union Jack / Flag

          If we superimposed that Welsh dragon on the flag would at least stop idiots hanging / flying it upside down.

          1. disgruntled yank Silver badge

            Re: No Welsh in the Union Jack / Flag

            Don't be so sure of that. During one World Series game between Toronto and Atlanta, a US color guard marched out with the maple leaf upside down.

      3. Ledswinger Silver badge

        Re: Typical

        No need for a new Welsh flag. All English rugby fans know what that looks like, right?

        Well, any driver in Wales will conclude that this is the Welsh national flag.

      4. Jock in a Frock

        Re: Typical

        +1 for the word 'hemisphereans'

        1. DropBear Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Typical

          Bah, humbug! "Earthicans" sounds just fine...

  2. Hollerith 1

    Roll out any version of Fern

    I think the Black Fern versions look great, with or without the Southern Cross, although it will be a nightmare for graphics people and manufacturers of flags.

    I know there was kerfuffle over 'don't lose the old flag and the Union Jack, under which our troops served, this makes a mockery of our veterans' etc etc. Canada changed its flag in the 1960s and I don't think Canadian veterans had collective heart attacks.

    1. Ole Juul Silver badge

      Re: Roll out any version of Fern

      Yes, but the Maple Leaf was cleverly pushed through on an off day in Parliament by a very presumptuous Liberal government. We'll never know what a democratic process would have brought us. In any case the solution with the veterans et al actually was quite interesting. They adopted the Union Flag a month earlier as also being an official flag. Even though the Maple Leaf is the only national flag, Canada now does have two official flags.

      1. Hollerith 1

        Re: Roll out any version of Fern

        Yes, the two flags things was a nice fudge, wasn't it? A democratic process would have been a tricky one then -- we were still a bit 'colonial' and there would have been years of backing and forthing -- but perhaps we would have followed NZ's style now: a shortlist, a public vote, and then done-and-dusted.

        I certainly like the Canadian national flag. Simple, clear, and also instantly identifiable. There are a few flags around the world that are like that: UK's, USA's, China's, a couple of others, and the rest are merely coloured bars. I hope to see the Black Fern adding itself to the cool countries' flags.

        1. Anonymous Blowhard

          Re: Roll out any version of Fern

          "I hope to see the Black Fern adding itself to the cool countries' flags"

          Does that include Mozambique? (Includes an AK47, as mentioned in "Lord of War")

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mozambique

        2. The First Dave

          Re: Roll out any version of Fern

          Actually, the flag of the USA is rather similar to that of Liberia, IIRC.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Roll out any version of Fern

        I didn't know that background, but the maple leaf flag is now one of the most iconic brands in the world, so it's a good job they did.

        Sometimes all this public participation is just an excuse for junkets and inability or unwillingness to make a decision. Just pick one of these (designed by an actual professional, not the PM's unemployed graphic artist cousin) and move on.

        Notice how it's all the unimportant decisions that are mired in "public process" and drag on for years. There was never a voting process for invading Iraq was there?

      3. Robert Helpmann?? Silver badge
        Childcatcher

        Re: Roll out any version of Fern

        Canada now does have two official flags.

        At least the Canadians didn't go the route that Oregonians chose to follow: one flag with two sides*. Canadians may have the maple leaf, but Oregonians got the beaver.

        * Yes, Paraguay has a two-sided flag, too, but it is completely devoid of beaver.

    2. Anonymous Blowhard

      Re: Roll out any version of Fern

      "I think the Black Fern versions look great, with or without the Southern Cross"

      Sounds like a good reason for another episode of "Fun With Flags"...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Quite nice

    I like the flags.

    We will, however, have to send an armada of The Queen's warships to bring them back into line should they go ahead with it.

    If we have any, that is.

    1. Graham Dawson

      Re: Quite nice

      We've still got the HMS Victory in drydock. She could probably be made seaworthy again without too much fuss.

      1. Graham Marsden
        Unhappy

        @Graham Dawson: Re: Quite nice

        Alas the Victory is currently in rather a sorry state :-( (A young lady of my acquaintance is one of the Tour Guides at the Dockyard)

    2. WaveyDavey

      Re: Quite nice

      Re the armada: could I cadge a lift please? I'd love to emigrate to NZ, amazing place.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Quite nice - cadge a lift

        Might be a shortage of space I'm afraid, if all we have available is HMS Victory.

        Perhaps if the Mary Rose can be repaired ...

        1. Hellcat

          Re: Quite nice - cadge a lift

          HMS Trincomalee, ready for service and I don't think HMS Warrior would take too much before she was ready.

          1. Little Mouse

            Re: Quite nice - cadge a lift

            I don't see a problem. I seem to recall that we did a fairly good job of populating the West Island using only sea transport...

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @Hellcat - Re: Quite nice - cadge a lift

            Good, so that's three at least we can scrape up.

          3. Laura Kerr

            Re: Quite nice - cadge a lift

            I'm sure a quick refit would see HMS Belfast good to go, as well.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Quite nice - cadge a lift

              MTB102? Room for a couple on board.

            2. MrT

              Re: Quite nice - cadge a lift

              Hang on - does that mean that all mothballed battleships are not kept fully armed and fuelled up, staffed by elderly ex-sailors, ready to go at a moment's notice? I feel somewhat misled by a documentary film reel I recently saw, presented by notable historians such as Dr 'Weps' Rhianna and someone called Sam...

              1. moiety

                Re: Quite nice - cadge a lift

                Can we send the SAS in first to put netting over major harbours so they don't throw our tea in? That was a bit traumatic last time.

              2. The First Dave

                Re: Quite nice - cadge a lift

                To be fair, from what I recall, that ship only had a few shells on board, and I believe they were magic ones anyway that could be fired without need of any propellant...

    3. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Quite nice

      Not yet.

      That was just the referendum for the alternative design. That is still _NOT_ the referendum for the actual replacement. That is the next vote (if El Graunidad is to be believed).

      The fern ones are really cool though :)

  4. wolfetone Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Research

    The Union Jack is what the Union Flag is called on a ship. If it's on land, it's called a Union Flag.

    1. Velv Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: Research

      Yes, research indeed.

      While the full etymology of term "Union Jack" remains unknown, one possibility is from the small "jack" flag flown from the bowsprit of a ship, jack being an old term for "small".

      A full size Union flag flown elsewhere on the ship would still be called a Union Flag, and there's nothing stopping a small flag (or Jack) being flown on land.

      1. Kevin Johnston Silver badge

        Re: Research

        I think you will find that jacks fly from jackstays which are the ropes running up a mast, normally for the inner end of a yard or for the edge of a sail. Also used for raising flags for signalling or for 'jacks' to indicate status (OK that's a sub-set of signalling by how pedantic do I need to be here?).

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Research

        jack being an old term for "small". So, how should we interpret jack off?

        1. Graham Dawson

          Re: Research

          Off can mean deactivated, functionally an equivalent of death. La petite mort?

    2. Tom Wood

      Re: Research

      http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british-flags/the-union-jack-or-the-union-flag/

    3. Hollerith 1

      Re: Research

      Yes, but it's not common or popular usage. I mean, do you really go around saying 'internet' when 'intertubes' is the common or popular commentard usage?

    4. glen waverley

      Re: Research

      The irony of a commentard called wolfetone commenting on the UK flag...

    5. Marking Time

      Re: Research

      Such use was given Parliamentary approval in 1908 when it was stated that “the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag”.

  5. Winkypop Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Yes please

    Australia: you're next.

    It's time we grew up some.

    1. Unep Eurobats

      Re: Yes please

      Next can we do something about all those near-indistinguishable European flags that are variations on red, white and blue stripes (or black/blue, yellow and red ones; or green, white and orange/red ones).

      1. Ledswinger Silver badge

        Re: Yes please

        Next can we do something about all those near-indistinguishable European flags

        Ahh, but what happens when the Scots decide to secede and form the Scottish Soviet People's Democratic Republic?

        The union flag would have to drop the saltire. Nobody really recognises the cross of St David anyway, but if we can get the Scots to shove off, then it'll make sense rebuilding Offa's dyke and giving the Welsh the perpetual single party state they want (and we in England will be better off because we won't be paying for these two public sector theme parks).

        Then when thinking about boring European flags, is the cross of St George sufficiently distinguished on its own?

        1. 8Ace

          Re: Yes please

          Cross of St. David ?? Looks like you need educating on your own flag matey. It's the Cross of St. Patrick .. it's Irish. There is no Welsh component on the Union Flag.

          1. Ledswinger Silver badge

            Re: Yes please

            Looks like you need educating on your own flag matey.

            Fair cop. But it still looks pants with a red x superimposed on a red +. And if we're letting the Scots take the high road, quietly making Wales a sovereign nation whether they like it or not, we'd have to let Ulster decide its own destiny.

            So, back to the sub topic of a flag for England, how about this distinctive and appropriate design.

            In heraldic terms: Black yellow and grey stripes, with a tenné roundle offset, and tenné zouche adjacent.

            1. 8Ace

              I'd quit now if I were you !

              "And if we're letting the Scots take the high road, quietly making Wales a sovereign nation whether they like it or not, we'd have to let Ulster decide its own destiny."

              Ulster is not part of the United Kingdom. Ulster is one of the 4 provinces of the whole Island of Ireland, along with Leinster, Munster and Connacht. Ulster contains 9 counties. 3 of those counties are part of the Republic of Ireland, whilst the other 6 form the country known as Northern Ireland.

              Northern Ireland is one of the 4 constituent countries of the United Kingdom.

              I mean, come on.. time you learnt about your own sovereign state, then you can start pontificating on flags !

              1. Ledswinger Silver badge

                Re: I'd quit now if I were you !

                I mean, come on.. time you learnt about your own sovereign state, then you can start pontificating on flags !

                Nope. I didn't come here for well informed debate, and in that respect I came full prepared myself.

                "Ignorance shall be my shield, vitriol shall be my spear."

                (The Book of Ledswinger, ch 14 vs 54).

        2. LucreLout Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Yes please

          Ahh, but what happens when the Scots decide to secede and form the Scottish Soviet People's Democratic Republic?

          Come that day, they won't be able to afford a flag!

        3. Ken 16 Silver badge
          Trollface

          You mean the People's Democratic Republic of West Scotland

          The Principality of East Scotland will have it's own flag

      2. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Yes please

        Quote: "Next can we do something about all those near-indistinguishable European flags that are variations on red, white and blue stripes (or black/blue, yellow and red ones; or green, white and orange/red ones)."

        Dont worry, I'm sure the Germans are working hard on replacing all those european flags with just the one again........

        PS dont mention the war

    2. TheTick
      Thumb Down

      Re: Yes please

      Honouring your origins is not childish.

      1. Drew 11

        Re: Yes please

        Yeah. If it's good enough for Hawaii...

        1. Ken 16 Silver badge
          Paris Hilton

          Re: Yes please

          Why don't they have a Sandwich on their flag?

      2. Adam 1 Silver badge

        Re: Yes please

        > Honouring your origins is not childish.

        So something like this?

      3. Winkypop Silver badge

        Re: Yes please

        Origins are fine, but let's ditch the symbols (and monarchy) of another nation.

        1. P. Lee Silver badge

          Re: Yes please

          >let's ditch the symbols (and monarchy) of another nation.

          Isn't that your monarchy?

          For my money, the top two look like a cereal packet trademark, the third looks like a semaphore flag, then debian and the last two are sadly colour-deficient.

          I'd be a bit upset if those were the options.

          The Maple leaf is a clear, clean design. The fern is a bit busy, as are dual-coloured stars.

    3. dotdavid

      Re: Yes please

      "It's time we grew up some"

      You want a bigger flag?

    4. Philip Lewis

      Re: Yes please

      nah ... Hawaii first!

  6. The entire Radio 1 playlist commitee
    Thumb Up

    I like it

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I.......like.........pickles.

  7. Drew 11

    In the final round of ranking, the winning flag scored 50.53% to 49.47% for it's stablemate, so it was damn close. More people liked the flag that came 2nd (and thus is no longer in the running).

    The ~10% of "informal" votes (read: spoiled), give a clue as to how many people who bothered to vote didn't like any of the choices. Add those to the 50% who could even be bothered to mail back the envelope, and you start to realise that the old flag is probably going to be a keeper.

    http://electionresults.govt.nz/2015_flag_referendum1/results-by-count-report.html

    1. graeme leggett Silver badge

      I notice that the three top ones all retain some Red-White-and-blue element which suggests some fondness for Blighty yet (unlike a certain very large island in the same geographical region)

    2. Little Mouse

      I lived in NZ for a while in the late nineties, and the idea of replacing the flag was up for discussion back then too.

      Basing a new design on the silver fern was a popular choice, though there was some opposition, chiefly because it was already a sporting emblem and there were many who thought that a nation's identity should not simply ride on the coat-tails of its national sport.

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        "Basing a new design on the silver fern was a popular choice, though there was some opposition, chiefly

        because it was already a sporting emblem "

        That and because it's heavily trademarked by various entities....

  8. hatti

    Is it any flappier than its predecessor?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Can you burn it without fuss and bother.

      America - I'm looking at you...

      1. Kiwi

        @ AC

        Can you burn it without fuss and bother.

        I think that there are many here who would burn it regardless of the "fuss and bother". (Not me, my urine is not sufficiently flammable for such a task!)

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Me no understand

    Why didn't they just add the current flag to the list of options, and saved themselves a second vote if, having seen the alternatives, voters happened to like the old one better?

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Me no understand

      Or for a laugh, add the Aussie flag instead and see how many noticed

      1. Roq D. Kasba

        Re: Me no understand

        Because they're idiots who want to force their own agendas ahead of public opinion and realistic national debate. They want to present it as a fait accompli in the hope people don't realise they were voting in the pointless vote before the real one. This is why they spanked $20M- odd already.

        I don't really care about the kiwi flag, much as I'm pretty indifferent to flags in general. People who get excited about them are usually extremist in their views, not realising it's a lump of cloth, not the actual ideologies and body of the country embodied. If more people want a new one than not, that's nice for them. Perhaps a fucking great QR code would be good, one that pointed to gov.nz, or to the All Blacks website.

    2. GerryMC

      Re: Me no understand

      Because the voters in favour of changing the flag would be split five ways, against one option for those in favour of the status quo.

  10. Velv Silver badge

    Money

    Isn't it amazing how governments can spend millions on frippery while at the same time bemoaning they have no money for health care, housing and education...

  11. Buzzword

    Missing the point.

    The whole point of a flag is that you can identify the nation from a distance. That applies equally whether you're looking at the flag on a ship on the horizon, or trying to see your football team's flag in the corner of the pub TV on holiday.

    New Zealand's complex new flag fails this test miserably. Mind you, their old flag was just as bad, and far too easily confused with Australia's.

  12. thames
    Linux

    I Like the Swirly One

    I like the swirly one. Too bad they didn't pick it. I think it would be fabulous to have a flag based on the Debian logo.

    Penguin because well, Debian logo flag, and New Zealand has real penguins.

  13. Kane Silver badge
    Boffin

    In This Thread?

    Fun With Flags!

    1. Phil Endecott Silver badge

      Re: I Like the Swirly One

      Swirly = Debian logo = coffee stain of quality:

      http://dilbert.com/strip/1996-06-11

  14. MartinC

    Point to note: None of the five options presented for the poll was the existing flag, i.e. the question "do you wish to keep the present flag" was not asked; also none of the five options presented contained a union jack as any component of the proposed new flags.

    This is the answer to a a nonsense poll.

    1. Lester Haines (Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

      That's one of the opponents' objections. They could actually have asked if any flag change at all was wanted right from the off, and then asked for new designs if the people said yes.

      1. Ledswinger Silver badge

        That's one of the opponents' objections.

        But the people behind this will be a small, noisey political elite with a pre-judged conclusion, probably that the existing flag has to go. If they'd started off asking "do you want a new flag?", they know the debate would have been closed off forever because nobody would have bothered to vote, and any outcome would have had no legitimacy. By doing it this way round, they create the debate with a prospective winner.

        Of itself, as a Brit I don't have a problem with them changing their flag, and the "winning" design is pleasantly distinctive. But if I were a Kiwi I wouldn't like the manipulative way it has been done. But then again, what can we expect from the lying, thieving, self interested turds that are our political classes?

        1. DanceMan

          "the people behind this will be a small, noisy political elite with a pre-judged conclusion"

          As a Canadian who was around at the time we got the red maple leaf, I think this more accurately describes those who wanted to keep the original.

          My father always complained about being given a passport that described him as a "British Subject."

      2. MonkeyCee Silver badge

        News cycle

        Since when has this had ANYTHING to do with being practical and sensible?

        It's a massive (and rather pricey) distraction so Key and Co and continue looting the national silver. Which apparently all OK, as long as mom and pop get to buy a little of it too.

        Try and get a referendum about an actual issue, that'll get buggered about like no-ones business. Want to distract everyone? Lets all discuss what flag we want, then have a shortlist, then have a campaign to get stuff added to the shortlist, then a referendum to choose the choice, then an actual vote on the flag, and then no doubt an appeal (legal or public) if things don't go the way someone wants.....

        And all this time the actual governing of the country, the Nats being huger than usual shits, just gets ignored.

        Goddamn distraction politics and USA style divide-and-rule works wonders in MMP.

  15. Tom 7 Silver badge

    Well thats the primary school competition done

    I'd be interested to see how it looks when someone who has some design experience beyond those postcards you find in telephone boxes gets to work on it.

    1. Little Mouse

      Re: Well thats the primary school competition done

      The "postcards" in the few phone boxes that still exist round my way were most definitely NOT designed by children.

      They'd certainly make for a more interesting national flag though...

  16. Natalie Gritpants

    Wow - flag nerd fest

    1. Geoff May

      Wait until Sheldon joins the debate ...

  17. steward
    WTF?

    This looks like some sort of plot out of Mordor.

  18. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    Bloody ingrate antipodean mutinous dogs! How dare they flaunt their childish throwing off of the guiding hand of Benevolent British Rule?

    Time to show them the Iron Fist in the Iron Glove!

    1. Lester Haines (Written by Reg staff) Gold badge

      Time to show them the Iron Fist in the Iron Glove!

      With a titanium knuckleduster, methinks.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Low for a constitutional issue

    Well I damned well wanted to vote on this, but I'm not allowed to because I must first prove my identity as part of the online process which apparently requires visiting a post office in New Zealand, FFS.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Low for a constitutional issue

      If you choose not to live there then what right do you have to vote there?

  20. John Savard Silver badge

    Bad Example

    I'm saddened to hear that New Zealand is being tempted to follow the bad example of my own country, Canada, which changed its flag to one without the Union Jack under Pearson, back in 1965. However, Canada did this without a referendum; had one been held, likely the change would not have passed, as it was widely viewed as a sop to the feelings of the French minority in Quebec.

    1. Notas Badoff Silver badge

      Re: Good Bad Example

      "... as it was widely viewed as a sop to the feelings of the French minority in Quebec."

      And look how well that sop soaked up the vinaigre! Not at all. The problem with acceding to the somewhat random current demands of "change is needed!" groups, where the only constant is they want to stay on the podium forever, and so there are always new 'changes' needed following thereafter.

      I rather like the idea of presidents/etc. having only one term of office, perhaps at 1.5 the length of the old shorter terms. Can we also wish that the 'change' people were also limited to one movement per decade say?

  21. Crazy Operations Guy

    If anyone needs a new flag, its Poland

    Poland's flag is exactly the same as Indonesia's or a flipped over version of Monaco's.

    1. glen waverley

      Re: If anyone needs a new flag, its Poland

      And Ireland's flag and that of Cote d'Ivoire are pretty much the same.

      Which caused some concern during the last soccer world cup.

      http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/linfield-shop-sign-tricolour-is-ivory-coast-not-republic-of-ireland-flag-30357592.html

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: If anyone needs a new flag, its Poland

        Russia, France and the Netherlands suffer a similar problem.

  22. Marketing Hack Silver badge
    Go

    Any New Zealand flag without a sheep on it is just not representative of the country!!

    Or maybe hobbits, those guys seem to come from New Zealand.

    1. Cardinal

      Re: Any New Zealand flag without a sheep on it is just not representative of the country!!

      "Or maybe hobbits, those guys seem to come from New Zealand."

      Yes, you wouldn't even need the whole hobbit. A flag with just a couple of big hairy feet on it would suffice - and it would look great going round the track at the opening ceremony of the Olympics.

      Re those black and white versions - don't they look vaguely piratical? Maybe have Cap'n Jack Sparrow as the flag bearer at the Olympics if they choose one of those.

  23. jonnycando
    Thumb Up

    Hmmm

    Well if I have to pick one I reckon its the red white and blue fern..... But i am not a Kiwi so....

  24. Nixinkome

    Oh, what happened to Friday. I can't feel my face!

    I do hope the Kiwis are not going to send armed forces to Iraq or Syria under their new flag - they may get half obliterated by 'friendly' fire.

  25. Mario Becroft
    FAIL

    Change for change's sake?

    Everyone I know is quite happy with the current flag, and sees this whole flag palaver as a pointless waste of money pushed by our lame duck PM John Key as his pet project. I didn't bother voting since I'm not interested in wasting money on changing to any of the new flag 'choices.'

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't Panic!

    I like the one designed by Slartibartfast.

  27. Danny 2 Silver badge

    Rats!

    It reminded me of the Boomtown Rats song "Another Piece of Red" mourning the death of the British Empire (until then Geldof had still been pretending to be Irish), a song so bad that it doesn't seem to have made it onto Youtube.

    I was reading in New Zealand about Ian Smith

    I was thinking they were lucky to be rid of that shit.

    The people here can still believe in stiff lips and stiff collars

    They're speaking deals in English

    But they're making deals in dollars.

    They're breaking up an empire

    Nobody's buying British

    They're calling for an umpire

    Nobody's playing cricket

    The flags are coming down everybody stands saluting

    But somewhere in the distance, I can hear somebody shooting.

    And another piece of red left my atlas today.

    1. gerdesj Silver badge

      Re: Rats!

      "And another piece of red left my atlas today."

      The colour pink was used to denote the extent of the British Empire on atlases, at least within the empire.

  28. OzBob

    If it's getting confused with Australias...

    then wait until they become a republic and they remodel their flag off of that.

    Why couldn't we just stick a kiwi silhouette in the bottom left corner (for pedants, the "third quarter"), in place of where the sun goes on the Australian Flag? It's not rocket surgery!

    (I'm a Kiwi, my ancestors emigrated voluntarily!)

    1. Philip Lewis

      Re: If it's getting confused with Australias...

      " where the sun goes on the Australian Flag?"

      CRIKEY!

      That is not the sun! Were you an Australian, I would roundly abuse the Australian education system's malaise.

      "The sun" as you call it, is a star with each point representing one of the 6 states and the territories

  29. Alan Brown Silver badge

    Bass-Ackwards

    First you have a referendum on what you think you might like the flag to be if it changes.

    Then you have a referendum on whether it should be changed.

    All with a roar of publicity and a lot of money spent, on something that's been debated for 40+ years and the vast majority of the population either oppose or are ambivalent about (the greatest amount of support has always been for simply dropping the Union jack and keeping the Southern Cross red stars on a blue background)

    When NZ changed its electoral system (which is far more important), they had "should we change?" and "If we change, what should we change to?" on the SAME referendum.

    The cynical would argue that the publicity this is getting is a way of distracting from the far more important things that Kiwis _can't_ vote for this year:

    TPP

    Sending troops to Iraq (again)

    GCSB spying bills

    Deepwater oil drilling

    The deepening housing crisis (both affordaibilty and black mould epidemic)

    Massive MP pay rises

    And:

    Rapidly worsening environmental pollution.

    62% of NZ rivers are now unsafe to swim in, let alone drink from, up from under 20% 20 years ago. The NZ environment agency's response has been to rewrite standards so that these levels of pollution are now legal - http://www.writehanded.org/blog/2015/11/19/nz-100-pure-bullshit/

    As a NZ native I've very well aware that Kiwis are amongst highest per-capita generators of pollution and trash, carbon use, car ownership and gun ownership in the world (The USA Only overtook NZ for that in the 1990s). There have always been some extreme pollution hotspots and the only reason NZ has had reputation for "greenness" is because the population is so small plus the prevailing winds carry most air pollution off to the southern oceans. Since the 1990s increasing energy consumption, official corruption and special treatment of dairy farming (in particular) have resulted in wide areas being increasingly polluted with no action being taken. You're looking at the steady creation of another Haiti.

    1. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Bass-Ackwards

      "62% of NZ rivers are now unsafe to swim in"

      That's _overall_. It's over 90% in lowland areas and what few swimming spots there are in the mountains are polluted.

      You don't want to drink NZ river or lake water pretty much anywhere, even in the mountains. Giardia infestations have become universal since the 1990s (started spreading after WW2) and that parasite will make you quite ill.

  30. Steve 114

    Sew sew

    NZ should choose a flag that'e easier to sew than the present one.

  31. Spamfast
    Pirate

    Kudos to the style boutiques

    So they've spent NZ$26 million already. Nice little bonuses for some politician's friends no doubt.

    I wonder if they've calculated the one-off cost of having to prematurely replace all the flags for every flagpole, naval vessel and government building, ditch any amount of printed material and pay another set of graphic designers and printers to tool up for the replacements along with web designers and no doubt other costs I've not thought of?

    To make an informed decision the electorate should be given an estimate first. And of course gathering that information will cost too.

    As others have commented, it's just a rag for idiots to wave at sports events or when the scum, sorry, cream of other nations visit. Frak!

    Anyway, as a true believer and a fully paid up minister the only flag I revere is this one.

    http://www.venganza.org/images/wallpapers/jollyfish2.jpg

  32. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

    Wow

    I just did a quick count, and it seems like all the regular viewers of "Fun with Flags" are on this thread!

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