back to article Doctor Who: Even the TARDIS key can't unpick the chronolock in Face the Raven

Readers please note: THIS IS A POST-UK BROADCAST REVIEW – THERE WILL BE SPOILERS! So this week we have our hero stumbling upon a Harry Potter-like set, with Clara and returning character Rigsy (remember him?) in tow. A mysterious tattoo on the back of Rigsy's neck counts down to zero and – with the clock ticking – the hunt is …

  1. heyrick Silver badge

    It was a pretty badass death scene, just a shame the prelude was a lot of yackage that could rival a Shakespearean death.

    I just hope, after going out like that, facing it head on, they won't cheapen it by any "she's not really dead" gimmick.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Meh

      According to Whackypedia she'll be in the last episode of the series too...

    2. Bernard M. Orwell Silver badge

      "I just hope, after going out like that, facing it head on, they won't cheapen it by any "she's not really dead" gimmick."

      'Don't run; stay with her. Why do they always run?'

      Clara didn't run, she was the only one that "faced the raven" freely. Also, note at the point of impact of the quantum shadowy that's taken a bird-shape for no adequately explained reason, there was a flash of white light that didn't happen on the "demo-victim" earlier in the episode.

      I see tropes and plot-hammers are being wielded with wild abandon. There is going to be a poor deus ex machina reason she didn't die, or I will eat my (fourth doctors) hat.

      (Ah, Tom, we miss you....)

  2. john devoy

    How come he didnt try stuffing her into the stasis pod?

    1. Tom Chiverton 1

      Until when ?

      1. Tac Eht Xilef

        "Until"?

        1. sabroni Silver badge

          Until he works our a way to save her, obv.

          1. Daggerchild Silver badge

            Yeah it stuck out, sitting in the background while everyone talked. Of course putting a souleaten body in stasis still means it's dead, and you can still kill someone in a stasis pod. They could have at least mentioned that.

            Me, I'm thinking Clara's soul would make an excellent house for a new quantum shadeling. She didn't run.

          2. Tac Eht Xilef

            Oh, sorry, I see now that you really meant "If".

            (hint: not a fan of Mary-Sue Clara...)

    2. Stevie Silver badge

      How come he didnt try stuffing her into the stasis pod?

      Or take her to that place with the aerial fish? They had dozens of the buggers.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I think Peter Capaldi was excellent in this episode; he is believably angry and actually a bit scary, unlike his predecessors, with the possible exception of Christopher Ecclestone.

    1. Graham Marsden

      I agree that he was believably angry, although I disagree somewhat that the others didn't do that (just maybe not as well).

      Still, as the Doctor said of the Quantum Shade: "You can flee across all of time and all of the universe but it will still find you".

      Hmm, does that remind you of anyone else...?!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "I think Peter Capaldi was excellent in this episode; he is believably angry"

      Did he go full Malcolm Tucker ? That I'd like to see.

      PS If Hollywood get hold of the Tardis, the only yank capable of pulling off Dr Who is Robert Downey Jr

      1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
        Joke

        "the only yank capable of pulling off Dr Who is Robert Downey Jr"

        Ooh err missus!

        That won't be rated PG then.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @ Jason

          The choice of words was quite deliberate, congrats for picking up on it +1.

          1. TRT Silver badge

            Robert Downey Jr

            So the UK version of Iron Man, starring Peter Capaldi...

            F***! I''ve got a f***ing meeting in 15 minutes, this is not a f***ing non-crease shirt, there's no f***ing spray starch left and I can only get it up to the right f***ing temperature for f***ing nylon.

      2. earl grey Silver badge
        Trollface

        pulling off Dr Who

        I'm sorry; I don't watch those kind of programs.

    3. ps2os2

      Peter, Excellent?? He is arguably the worse Doctor yet.

      1. Number6

        Now he's been given some good scripts and stories to work with he's doing quite well. Ecclestone and Tennant had all memory of the War Doctor activities repressed but Capaldi's incarnation is fully aware of what he is capable of if he lets himself do it. What we see is that internal struggle of someone trying not to take life and to save it where possible despite him and his friends being attacked and threatened.

  4. Graham Marsden
    Thumb Up

    What a corker!

    Unlike the reviewer, and despite the spoilers which, do my best, I couldn't avoid, this was an excellent episode IMO.

    Hidden streets and the like in London existed long before Harry Potter (Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere to mention but one, much better example) and the idea of one being a refugee camp for all sorts of nasties is a very nice idea.

    The "ticking clock" tattoo was also a clever bit of nastiness and "Retcon"? Hmm, this is at least the second time we've had a Torchwood reference (cf Captain Jack Harkness).

    As for "Clara death fatigue"? Dear me, has KF become so cynical that Clara's brave acceptance of her fate just becomes an "emotional, lengthy scene"? IMO the not-extermination of her *and* Missy was blatantly obviously a trick, whereas this was a good and fitting ending for the Impossible Girl.

    I can't wait for this one To Be Continued...

    PS If there was any "Next Week..." or trailer after the episode, I didn't see it because I don't *WANT* to see it, so if anyone has seen that, do me and everyone else a favour and put a spoiler warning *before* talking about it, thanks...

    1. ThomH Silver badge

      Re: What a corker!

      There was a 'Next Week...' trailer; after there was also a very minor post-credits sequence that was just about tying up that episode. I don't think you're missing any important plot points — it was highly skippable — but if you want an excuse to skip back after next week then there it is.

    2. Andrew Moore Silver badge

      Re: What a corker!

      My thought was "Neverwhere" straight away. Had to check to see if Gaiman wrote the episode. Ashildr did a very passable impression of Door.

      1. Simon Harris Silver badge

        Re: What a corker!

        "Hidden streets and the like in London existed long before Harry Potter (Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere to mention but one, much better example) and the idea of one being a refugee camp for all sorts of nasties is a very nice idea."

        My first thought was Cornelius and Tuppe would have found the streets with the help of the re-invented ocarina and an A-Z in Robert Rankin's 1994 classic Raiders of the Lost Car Park. I think it was 1993's The Book of Ultimate Truths that introduced the Forbidden Zones.

      2. Toltec

        Re: What a corker!

        "My thought was "Neverwhere" straight away. Had to check to see if Gaiman wrote the episode. Ashildr did a very passable impression of Door."

        I expected that too from the trailers and checked the credits as it started.

  5. Gary F

    Bring back Clara!

    I'm so tired of the windy speeches that the characters, especially the Dr, enter into each episode. But Clara is so pretty, smart and knowing that it won't be the same without her. I hope it wasn't her last episode.

    My 9 year old spotted a continuity error tonight. The tattoo on the back of the man's neck disappeared in one shot while he was talking to Clara BEFORE she took the tattoo off of him.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bring back Clara!

      So pretty, and such a tight sweater, shame on me for noticing.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bring back Clara!

        I think you were supposed to - there wasn't really any other argument for a side shot. It was laid on a bit thick, so to speak.

      2. Robin

        Re: Bring back Clara!

        > So pretty, and such a tight sweater, shame on me for noticing.

        Don't beat yourself up over it.

        1. x 7

          Re: Bring back Clara!

          "Don't beat yourself up over it."

          Thats easy for you to say, much harder for some of us

        2. 's water music Silver badge

          Re: Bring back Clara!

          Don't beat yourself up over it.

          Or off. Think of the... cont. p94

      3. Richard Wharram

        Re: Bring back Clara!

        Its fan service. I seem to remember Nyssa's last episode had some too.

    2. Paul S. Gazo

      Re: Bring back Clara!

      Similar continuity issue with Ashildr's tattoo. During the first execution, she allows her tattoo to move to the raven. While it's chasing its victim (supposedly a cyberman), the camera occasionally comes back to the watchers, and in one shot, the tattoo is back on Ashildr's yes please.

      1. Robin

        Re: Bring back Clara!

        > While it's chasing its victim (supposedly a cyberman)

        Yeah, how come the 'person' could run faster than a cyberman could, as well?

      2. lybad

        Re: Bring back Clara!

        The continuity that was bugging me was when they were looking at the entrance to the street - a guy in a grey top walked behind Clara, view changed to the entrance, and then back to Clara, and the guy walks past again,

        1. john.w

          Re: Bring back Clara!

          It must have been a glitch in the Matrix, an agent is on the way.

    3. Flat Phillip

      Re: Bring back Clara!

      I saw that too. I thought, oh she already has taken it and in the next scene it's back and NOW she's taken it.

    4. En_croute

      Re: Bring back Clara!

      It was a glitch in the Matrix...

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Noooo!

    River Song is coming back at Christmas.

    1. x 7

      Re: Noooo!

      "River Song is coming back at Christmas."

      It'll just be the computer simulation version again

      1. Suricou Raven

        Re: Noooo!

        This computer simulation River has barely been used. There's a lot of wasted potential. Consider that this character is running on the highest-capacity storage system ever built, with a processor so powerful it occupies the interior of the entire library planet, and has nothing to do but sit around and read the entire collected knowledge of a highly advanced civilization. She's a singularity waiting to happen.

        Right now? Brain the size of a planet and they send her to open a door.

        1. Chris King Silver badge

          Re: Noooo!

          A library the size of a planet, with an antivirus system the size of a (Dr) Moon. When that two-parter was first shown, I thought "Bloody hell, McAfee has put on some bloat there".

  7. Gordon 10 Silver badge

    one of the better episodes of this season

    A good exit done well.

    Will be interesting to see how angry he is next week.

    And since Clara is the Impossible Girl - what's to stop there being other versions of her? Not that I want it coz it would cheapen things. But there are meant to be Clara's all over the Doctors timeline.

    1. Doctor_Wibble

      Re: one of the better episodes of this season

      > But there are meant to be Clara's all over the Doctors timeline.

      Good point - so *this* Clara might be pining for the fjords but there are plenty of others dotted about so even if she isn't immortal maybe she doesn't die with quite the sort of never-again finality that requires being nailed to the perch.

      Maybe the body evaporates into the ether to avoid complicated questions over time and space and the stuff that's in it, otherwise we end up with some bizarre handwavey thing involving twangy elastic and some very strange looking trousers of time.

      1. weegie38

        Re: one of the better episodes of this season

        "Good point - so *this* Clara might be pining for the fjords but there are plenty of others dotted about"

        Actually, I took Clara's "You're alone now" line to the Doctor as a sort of hint that this marks the end of Impossible Girl. That is, from this point on in the Doctor's timeline, there's no version of Clara around to help him out.

        Given that the Doctor is now in a new set of regenerations, the events in the "...Of The Doctor" episodes seem to only refer to the first cycle, and Clara has been around for real up to now, this would make some sense.

  8. Valarian

    9/10

    I agree the build-up to the Big Goodbye was a bit elongated, and there were a couple of silly plot-holes in the run-up, but Clara's final few lines were right on the money. Knowing The Doctor as she does, she knew his threats to Mayor Me were far from idle - that warrior, the promise-breaker, is evidently still not far beneath the surface, and you saw it in his face when he swore to rain Hell down on Ashilda.

    And her last lines, and the expression on her face at the evident pain with which she died. Yeah, JLC came close to breaking me there.

    But then Capaldi did it. He looks at Ashilda, and you know that brave defiant face she's putting-on is a sham, and her guts have turned to liquid and are trying to get out really fast. And he says he's going to do his best, to try to uphold Clara's last wish, to not be The Oncoming Storm. And you see it in his eyes, the struggle, the despair, the fury. And that 1000-yard-stare, the one that Eccleston and Smith never quite mastered but which Tennant had and now Capaldi so clearly has, just blasts through her and she knows, she knows, that being immortal isn't going to be defence enough.

    I've said this before - you do not want to be on a Time Lord's shit-list. Ever.

    1. John Tserkezis

      Re: 9/10

      "I've said this before - you do not want to be on a Time Lord's shit-list. Ever."

      Sigh, time lords a figment of children's imagination, you don't have to worry your little head about them.

      Santa Clause on the other hand will work his way into your bedroom and f**k you up if you're not grateful for all your presents. Especially clothes.

      Yes, my upbringing was strange, what of it?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 9/10

        Never mind Santa, it's the easter bunny who will mess you up if you don't eat your carrots.

        What?

      2. Andrew Moore Silver badge

        Re: 9/10

        everyone know there's no such thing as a Sanity Clause

      3. sabroni Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Sigh, time lords a figment of children's imagination

        It's for kids!!! Grow up!!!!!!!

        1. dajames Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Sigh, time lords a figment of children's imagination

          It's for kids!!! Grow up!!!!!!!

          If it's for kids, the very last thing you want to do is to grow up.

      4. Chris King Silver badge

        Re: 9/10

        "I've said this before - you do not want to be on a Time Lord's shit-list. Ever."

        Or Captain Kirk's. Unless you're blue/green-skinned, alien and female, you're probably getting a Photon Torpedo in your Christmas stocking (unless something else kills you first).

        1. Ugotta B. Kiddingme

          Re: "you're probably getting a Photon Torpedo in your Christmas stocking"

          nah. Just a red shirt.

    2. simon gardener

      Re: 9/10

      Moffat seems to be into his long trails and they've been boring me . The Ponds, who i enjoyed had a half season of they'll be leaving soon. then we go the belaboured dragged out "she's the impossible girl".Then they kept her around for another year, then she was supposed to leave and changed her mind and for some reason we had to have her back for another year. I'm still dreading another press conference where she announces she's changed her mind and will do another season.

  9. I Like Heckling

    To paraphrase Robert Downey Jnr (because some one else mentioned him) as Iron Man.

    Please be dead, please be dead, please be dead..... YAY!

    If they bring her back in any way shape or form... I honestly think I will be done with this show. She has been a noose around it's neck for far too long (as I've often said) and I too have been suffering from death fatigue this series.

    Ding Dong Clara's Dead, Clara's Dead, Clara's Dead... Ding Dong the useless Clara's dead.... I hope.

    Capaldi on the other hand was fantastic, he has been the one bright light shining through the terrible writing of this series. A menacing darkness bubbling just underneath the surface the whole time that just slips through the cracks at the end. A testament to Maisie Williams acting ability in how she reacted to it... and thus the small ray of hope that she may become a future companion is dashed.

    So the Doctor is teleported away some where mysterious and cannot be tracked without his tardis key... so I'm kinda thinking that they'll simply have had Clara slip her key into his pocket at some point towards the end.

    But that would just be lazy writing wouldn't it... and they've not offered up predictable lazy stuff like that this series have they.... Oh... wait a minute.

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

      I would actually look forward to some Dr Who that was about, you know, Dr Who.

      So many of the recent series have been about the Doctors companions. They are supposed to be a prop (and a disposable one at that) - not the lead actor!

  10. msknight Silver badge

    I doubt it

    Most of the companions are not killed, but live worthwhile lives somewhere else. This is probably a ruse and the real, "death," which won't be a death, is later on.

    1. Suricou Raven

      Re: I doubt it

      There are a couple of lines in Sarah Jane Adventures that hint at what some companions are up to.

      I'd really like to see what happened to Ace - she was a very eighties character. As the final companion of the classic series she never had her story resolved. She was last seen walking off towards the next adventure with the doctor, and was not there when the series resumed. So what became of her?

      I'd ideally like her to come back as a one-episode character (She's too eighties to work any longer than that), initially unidentified - she's older now, she's matured, no longer the punk we knew and not even recognizable. She may wear a suit and work in an office at a steady job, perhaps applying her talent for chemistry as a scientist, but there's still a bit of Ace beneath that - and when she uncovers a world-threatening conspiracy or an alien invasion, she knows it's time to call the number that the Doctor left her all those years ago - because there are days when the world needs a respectable scientist, and there are days when the world needs the Doctor, his trusted companion, and a flask of nitro-nine.

      There was a final story planned for Ace, but the series was canceled before it could be made - the Doctor was to sponsor her enrollment at the Time Lord Academy, recognizing what he always saw in her. That she may look, dress, speak and act like a punk street kid, but the appearance is deceptive, and though she may lack the discipline to do well at school she still has the mind of a gifted intellectual. I guess the Time War pretty much kills off that possibility.

      1. graeme leggett

        Re: I doubt it

        If you want extra Ace, there's the Big Finish audios.

      2. Alien8n Silver badge

        Re: I doubt it

        If Ace is anything like the 80's punks I know she won't have changed much, except maybe brighter hair. Was the weirdest thing going to see The Damned in Manchester earlier this year and seeing men and women in their 50's and 60's still looking like they'd walked off a documentary on 80's subculture...

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Another new story, another new exotic woman in a central role.

    Not that I'm complaining, just observing the other theme for this season. Missi, Cass, Ashildr, Osgood, 474, Anna. Some of them are in my top 10 favourite characters so it must be working in some way.

    1. x 7

      " Missi, Cass, Ashildr, Osgood, 474, Anna. Some of them are in my top 10 favourite characters"

      so important roles that at least half I don't remember.......

      In the main totally forgettable and inconsequential.

  12. Andrew Moore Silver badge

    Whither Torchwood?

    I was really surprised to find that it wasn't Torchwood behind the whole thing. Aliens hidden in London? Advanced tech? RetCon? Had TW written all over it. And remember, the Doctor did tell Ashildr about Captain Jack.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: Whither Torchwood?

      I'm +1 for bringing Jack back. Although I'm going to get down voted for it, I don't care. He was at least interesting and funny. You see what happens? You get Clara on if you demand Jack off.

      1. x 7

        Re: Whither Torchwood?

        whats a Demand Jackoff? Sounds like a hosepipe monster from beyond the Watershed

    2. Anonymous Cow Herder

      Re: Whither Torchwood?

      I think you'll find Captain Jack camping* it up on some vet program I had the misfortune of stumbling over and couldn't turn it off quick enough without my children noticing. I had to sit through half an hour of the rubbish.

      *Before I get flamed, this is not a homophobic comment. I seriously thought he was going to brake out into song while some poor cat was being injected with radioactive bromine.

      1. Paw Bokenfohr

        Re: Whither Torchwood?

        @ Anonymous Cow Herder:

        "I think you'll find Captain Jack camping* it up on some vet program"

        That was probably John Barrowman, the actor, rather than Captain Jack Harkness, the Dr. Who character, who was in that program (camping it up or not, something he's definitely capable of) but he's excellent in Arrow, and was excellent in Dr. Who and Torchwood too (yes, not Shakespearean, but these are superhero / sci-fi/fantasy shows) so I think it'd be good to have him back for a while.

        1. APA

          Re: Whither Torchwood?

          Just watched the first two seasons of Arrow and couldn't help play "spot the Dr Who actor". Yes, Barrowman was good as Merlyn. He didn't break into song once but was actually rather menacing.

          (Can't watch season 3 because 1 and 2 were free and I'm tight. I've added the DVD to my wishlist and continue to watch season 4 on Sky1 instead hoping that I won't miss too much)

          1. Rich 11 Silver badge

            Re: Whither Torchwood?

            They're worth waiting for.

  13. x 7

    was I the only one shouting at the TV, saying "Go on, hurry up and die you boring ******?" That death scene was far too long

    And anyway I don't think she's dead - that Raven looked like it bounced off her bullet-proof longline cross-your heart bra and stunned itself.............(how else does she keep her waist so trim and her feminine bulges so pointy?)

    1. TheOldGuy

      how else does she keep her waist so trim and her feminine bulges so pointy?

      I don't know, but I'm more than willing to find out!

      1. tabman

        Re: how else does she keep her waist so trim and her feminine bulges so pointy?

        And she certainly looked trim and very pointy.

        Easily the best of the season, acting wise if not quite story wise. Capaldi was on fire as an angry Timelord, he really let the darkness of the character show. Coupled with Maisie William's Ashildir looking terrified it summed up a terrific 45 minute episode.

        I have never been a fan of the impossible girl, but I have to admit that last night, as she died, I did hope for one second that the Doctor would save her. Seems that was not to be and Clara will join Adric as one of the shows dead and truly dead (although didn't Adric come back in one of the Big Finish productions?).

    2. paulej72

      Not dead

      If you noticed one of the other characters said that the ravens victims always ran and wished that the did not. Clara did not run and I am guessing because of this the raven did not actually kill her.

    3. Hilibnist
      Thumb Up

      RE x 7

      No you weren't the only one (hurry up, not the undergarments)

      Actually, I thought it good that one of the Doctor's companions finally had to face up to their rash decisions without a convenient McGuffin to bail them out. I reckon Clara's death would have had far more impact if she hadn't gone on about it for so long though... I was rooting for the raven to appear halfway through her farewell speech. That's the sort of thing that Joss Whedon excels at; an unexpected* death, showing that death isn't pretty and sometimes it just is futile.

      * yeah, well it wasn't going to be unexpected in Clara's case, but cutting her short mid-speech would have done the trick.

      1. Joefish
        Paris Hilton

        Re: "without a convenient McGuffin to bail them out"

        Going to call balls on that, as there were McGuffins all over the place - with cheese and a side of fries - just as many to save her as kill her off.

        Why would Ashildr be able to take the curse off Rigsy, but not Clara? She promised a death, so does that mean she was ready to die from it herself if she took it back? It didn't seem like it, so that's one fix that doesn't make sense.

        Secondly, whilst they're all standing around saying there's nothing they can do (which the Doctor has already done once that episode and changed his mind) there's a blωdy STASIS POD right behind them that no-one even tries to mention (even if the Doctor is ready to pull out another McGuffin to explain why it won't work).

        Then there's the 'Don't Run' thing we heard earlier, which (apparently, pre-'To be continued') makes no apparent difference, but presumably Part II will show the King of the Rocket-Men swooping down from the sky and pushing Clara out of the way of the raven at the last minute and saying 'thank goodness she was standing still'...

        1. Alien8n Silver badge

          Re: "without a convenient McGuffin to bail them out"

          She did say that she can only take the curse off the one she gives it to, that her contract with the Raven is between herself, the victim and the Raven. If the curse is transferred to a fourth person it negates the original contract leaving only Raven and the new cursed person, so she can't call it back.

          It would appear from the storyline that Me didn't realise that the Doctor's enemies are devious bastards and it would not surprise me at all if Clara's death was part of the plan. Not only do they get to remove the Doctor to some unforeseen place, but they also in one fell swoop remove his only support. A plan worthy of the Master (Missy) perhaps?

        2. Hilibnist

          Re: "without a convenient McGuffin to bail them out"

          Fair point Joefish... there were any number of ways that Clara could have been bailed out. I was expecting Ashildr to take the curse on herself and see how it fares on an 'immortal'.

          I liked that Clara wasn't bailed out this time - that's all.

  14. alain williams Silver badge

    We will see her again

    She stepped into the Dr's timeline which means that she is in his future as well as his past.

    Anyway: she has died before and come back.

    1. Suricou Raven

      Re: We will see her again

      Even if 'the' Clara is dead, there are still echos of her scattered throughout his timeline. Past and future.

      1. Simon Harris Silver badge

        Re: echos of her scattered throughout his timeline

        Does that mean that behind those pouty lips and pointy chest furniture, Clara could actually be Scaroth's sister?

  15. AceRimmer1980
    IT Angle

    "I promise she is under my protection."

    /Clara is actually in peril, does nothing..

    1. illiad

      Re: "I promise she is under my protection."

      yes, she WAS under her protection... then the STUPID girl switched the tag!!!

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

        Re: "I promise she is under my protection."

        A stupid girl of my acquaintance switched the tag, but the store detective got her anyway.

      2. Simon Harris Silver badge

        Re: "I promise she is under my protection."

        "yes, she WAS under her protection... then the STUPID girl switched the tag!!!"

        ... and that, kids, is why you must always read the licence agreement.

  16. graeme leggett

    I quite enjoyed it. And the title made sense.

    Even if initially it sounded like a NWOBHM album from the 80s.

    1. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Was that released before or after 'Lick My Love Pump'?

  17. J J Carter Silver badge
    Happy

    Flubble

    Her clingy sweater was eye-catching, I certainly would have put my head between them and gone flubble, flubble, flubble.

    1. AceRimmer1980

      Re: Flubble

      Gallifreyan Express? That'll do nicely.

    2. Pompous Git Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Flubble

      Made me think of this for some reason:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AmJahiCsnw

    3. sabroni Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Good grief

      Woman has breasts. Definitely worth a comment.

      Oh, what's that? You think they're nice? Well this could run and run then.....

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: Good grief

        Have to admit, for the first time this weekend, after countless watchings, I noticed Dr Gillian Taylor in Star Trek IV has rather pronoun... well, let's just say it must have been quite cold the day they filmed that bit where she was shouting at the Klingon spaceship in he park.

  18. x 7

    at face value there is of course a major continuity problem with this episode.....

    if the street had been in alien use as long as was implied, then either UNIT or Torchwood London would already have discovered it.........which in turn suggests that the only way the street could exist would be with Torchwood / UNITs connivance

    Now with the destruction of Torchwoods London and Cardiff, only the unknown Scottish office still exists.....so if they've taken over the oversight of whats left of Torchwood it could be they, still operating on the original Victorian remit, who are trying to catch the Doctor.

    1. Chris King Silver badge

      The street was in Cardiff (off Westgate Street, almost opposite the Millenium Stadium).

      If they had used Caroline Street instead, they wouldn't have needed to dress up any of the aliens - all human life (and a lot more besides) can be found on "Chip Alley" on a Friday or Saturday night.

  19. TRT Silver badge

    Well that was...

    a bit fucking tedious.

    But... My office was on Dr Who!!!!

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: Well that was...

      They must have put a perception filter over the 12 minutes of tedious goodbye from when the Doctor gets wheel clamped to when Clara gets deaded then, because it seems some people didn't notice it. There was also one over the stasis pod behind them too, because I'd at least have given that a go as a way of saving Clara.

  20. Richard Lloyd

    Audio badly mixed for me

    I recorded the Sat night showing from BBC One HD on Freesat onto my trusty Humax DVR and got a terrible audio mix coming out of my 5.1 system (which has never happened before). The background music was twice as loud as it should have been and almost obliterated the dialogue.

    I "obtained" another copy of the show and the mix was much better, though the odd dialogue snippet was competing with the background music again. Did anyone else out there have a similar audio issue? As for the episode, it yet another "meh" reaction from me, like so many of the episodes in recent years. My weekend was better spent watching Jessica Jones, which is so much better than Doctor Who currently is...

    1. SImon Hobson Silver badge

      Re: Audio badly mixed for me

      > Did anyone else out there have a similar audio issue?

      I didn't notice anything - recorded off the SD channel.

      1. Gordon 10 Silver badge

        Re: Audio badly mixed for me

        I noticed the voice track was a little muffled against the backing music on the live 'HD' stream on iPlayer.

  21. Suricou Raven

    I like ravens.

    Ravens are cool.

    1. Simon Blakely

      Re: I like ravens.

      They're only in it for the eyeballs ;-)

      1. Tel

        Re: I like ravens.

        They really should have made it a three-eyed one.

    2. AceRimmer1980

      Re: I like ravens.

      Will Clara be on Dr Who again?

      Nevermore.

    3. TRT Silver badge
  22. Nameless Faceless Computer User

    oh, I wasn't the only one to fall asleep during this episode. Wake me for the Christmas special.

  23. Teddy the Bear

    Good enough

    The death scene was a bit protracted, but Capaldi really did manage to cram in more depth to this episode than usual. I was very impressed with that.

  24. Hilibnist

    It's an occupational hazard...

    Adam, Rose, Donna, Astrid, Amy/Rory, River Song and now Clara ... since coming back for the new version, being a companion to the Doctor is a bit of a risky business, isn't it? None of that lot got to bail out on their own terms. At least Micky and Martha are out there somewhere, running the Doctor's fan club and Captain Jack is definitely not dead.

    On a different point, I'm glad the BBC finally got it right about waiting until *after* the credits to preview next week's episode.

    1. BenR

      Re: It's an occupational hazard...

      Both Rose and Donna are still alive and functioning though.

      Admittedly, one in a parallel universe, and the other with no memory of when she stopped being a classless ginger gobshite, but still - very much still consuming oxygen.

      And didn't Sexy Pond and Annoying Big Nose Pond simply get sent back in time together where they lived until 80+ each before dying of old age? Admittedly again perhaps not 100% exactly how they'd've chosen to go out, but still better than what could have happened!

      Still better than Adric, who got to unwittingly fly a space-freighter into the Earth at very high speed. At least it'd've been quick.

      1. Hilibnist

        Re: It's an occupational hazard...

        +1 for the explanations, but did you see the state of Rose's parallel universe? I think I'd be pretty narked if I had to spend eternity on a drizzly Pembrokeshire beach.

        1. BenR

          Re: It's an occupational hazard...

          "A fate *worse* than a fate worse then death? That's pretty bad..."

          1. TRT Silver badge

            Re: It's an occupational hazard...

            Did you see where Sarah Jane's parents ended up? That was a fête worse than a fate worse than a fate worse than death.

  25. JeffUK

    I think they've left themselves an 'out' here.

    When the first guy got killed, one of the guards said something like "Don't run,... why do they always run?" implying that running is somehow a bad idea, even though they're facing 'certain death' .. so I wonder if there is a catch in there about it only working if you're scared or some other hand waving ..

    we shall see.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tardis keys

    Clara knowing she was doomed, could sensibly slip the Doctor her copy of the Tardis key, so Tardis rescue inevitable, if he didn't have a spare already (doesn't the Tardis materialize new copies to the doctor and companions when it needs to anyway?).

  27. Eclectic Man

    But ...

    .. surely the Ravenking* has returned and will sort it all out?

    (*Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell 'summoned' him moths ago, as I recall)

    or am I getting my series's mixed up, like my metaphors?

    (Nice to read (presumably) adults commenting on children's TV so seriously.)

  28. Frank Bough

    Hang on...

    This show is for pre-teens, isn't it?

    1. Suricou Raven

      Re: Hang on...

      Dr Who is the 'family' offering - it's made to appeal to all ages, even though this unavoidably means lessening the appeal for a more specific age.

      There is the Torchwood spinoff for the adults, and the Sarah Jane Adventures spinoff for the kids.

  29. Anonymous John

    I'll just leave this here.

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/young-doctor-who-fan-wants-to-know-when-gran-will-regenerate-20151123104111

  30. Graham 25

    Rule #1

    The Doctor Lies ...... remember that.

    And remember The Rebel Flesh / The Almost People......

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Great episode

    It was heart breaking to see the Cyberman being killed. His poor wife was so emotional. Mayor Me was so cold logical and calculating. Oh no wait that was supposed to be the Cybermen

  32. 2+2=5 Silver badge

    Chronolock

    [Chronolock - death by vaping squid ink.]

    While the chronolock is a nice idea, introducing a new super weapon / means of death / means of assassination that is inescapable and can kill anything rather begs the question of why it's not been more widely used by other baddies.

    1. Suricou Raven

      Re: Chronolock

      The Doctor did seem quite shocked that someone had obtained a quantum shade, so it must be a very rare thing indeed.

  33. TeacherMARK

    It gets worse each week.

    Jeepers creepers...

    The new David Bowie video is scarier than this bloody awful nonsense.

  34. ShadowDragon8685

    Very emotionally powerful episode... But they missed two obvious outs.

    1: The stasis pod. Quoth the Doctor, "if you're alive, it keeps you alive." They could've bunged Clara in that.

    2: Clara could have said "No. I'm going to run. And do you know what I'm going to run? It's not because I'm scared, Doctor. It's because if you don't SEE me die, it wasn't final. If you don't SEE it happen, it's not a Fixed Point in Time. So I am going to run, and you aren't going to look back. You're going to look forward, you're going to make whoever put Ashildr up to this sorry they ever heard the name Doctor, and then you're going to do something so CLEVER, you're going to put on a bowtie, a leather jacket, combat boots and a pinstriped waistcoat when you play your guitar at my welcome back party. Got it?"

    Cue an epic legging it. The "out" leaves a hole in Clara's death you could pilot s Death Star through, let alone a TARDIS, but my favorite would be to go find those blokes who ride around in micro-miniaturized kaiju recreations of folks, get them to lend him another one of those person-imitating thingies, then grab Clara off the street when the group split up to do their searching, bung her inside it, and tell her to do what comes naturally.

    Then cue an epic rock ballad version of the Doctor's theme, played by the Doctor himself.

    [e]Come to think of it, on reflection, that could STILL work. But first, the Doctor has to get his Oncoming Storm, his Time Lord Triumphant, on upon those pitiable fools who set this nonsense up in the first place.

  35. mike white 1

    Isn't it about time

    to bring K9 back or am I barking up the wrong timeline ??

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