back to article How Microsoft will cram Windows 10 even harder down your PC's throat early next year

Microsoft will automatically download Windows 10 to millions more PCs in a "recommended" Windows update early next year. The tech giant shows no signs of slowing the rollout of its new operating system, utterly undeterred by the growing public outcry at its pushy attitude. Windows 10 already appears as a free "optional" …

  1. leexgx

    pre loading win10

    what they don't say is that 3G download is automatically done if you receive a copy or not (all my systems that had recommended updates turned on have re downloaded the 3GB on each of them) i have now removed the GWX update and by default now never turn on recommended updates (just important and Microsoft updates only)

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. joed

      Re: pre loading win10

      I'd not trust important updates. All my systems have been set to manual, every non-security update checked before approval (and I'll keep an eye on security updates because MS lost my trust). Plus all the CEIP schedules disabled. And 3GB would strangle my "broadband" for longer than I'd care to wait.

      Linux on the emergency exit.

    3. Joe User

      Re: pre loading win10

      And if you aren't careful, Microsoft will sneak GWX back on your PC by classifying it as "Important". Watch out for KB3035583 and be sure to unselect it.

    4. Joe User

      Re: pre loading win10

      There appears to be a way to block a Windows 10 forced upgrade:

      1. Open gpedit.msc (Group Policy Editor)

      2. Go to "Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update".

      3. In the list of settings, find "Turn off the upgrade to the latest version of Windows through Windows Update".

      4. Double-click this one and set it to "Enabled".

      This setting was originally meant for use by administrators in business environments, where random upgrades to Windows 10 could wreak havoc. Microsoft is unlikely to remove this option, and this setting will probably remain the most effective way to block uninvited upgrades.

      Note -- The Group Policy Editor normally isn't available in Windows 7 Home editions, but there's a way around that, too:

      How to Enable "Group Policy Editor" (gpedit.msc) in Windows 7 Home Premium, Home Basic, and Starter Editions

      http://www.askvg.com/how-to-enable-group-policy-editor-gpedit-msc-in-windows-7-home-premium-home-basic-and-starter-editions/

      1. Flatpackhamster

        Re: pre loading win10

        Thanks for this useful information. I will be doing it on every customer's machine I see.

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: pre loading win10

        Re: GPE settings

        Note if GWX is running, changing these setting won't stop GWX doing it's daily "calling home" to https://wscont.apps.microsoft.com/winstore/OSUpgradeNotification/gwx/prod/...

        To stop this communication that should of been disabled by the above GP setting setting, you need to disable and uninstall GWX. So far I've found that

        GWX Control Panel (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html ) does exactly what it says it does.

        I think, given how aggressive MS are being with Win10, if GWX is running, regardless of MS licence, you have a potentially open door to MS deciding to automatically update that computer...

  2. x 7

    absolute fucking stupidity

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      absolute fucking stupidity

      I could not agree more!

      1. h4rm0ny

        Re: absolute fucking stupidity

        Windows 10 - the Foie Gras of operating systems.

        1. Spleen

          Re: absolute fucking stupidity

          Foie gras is delicious. I think you mean that Windows 10 is the /gavage/ (tube-fed corn) of operating systems. Foie gras geese are not fed on foie gras, that's just wrong.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: absolute fucking stupidity

            Yep. And it's you, dear user, who is the goose.

          2. stringyfloppy

            Re: absolute fucking stupidity

            I think he meant they're using the same method used to produce the geese used for Foie Gras. Made perfect sense to me.

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > absolute fucking stupidity

      At what point does it cross over from "fucking stupidity" to "breach of section 3 of the computer misuse act (1990)"?

      1. Fatman Silver badge
        Joke

        RE: "breach of section 3 of the computer misuse act (1990)"?

        <quote>At what point does it cross over from "fucking stupidity" to "breach of section 3 of the computer misuse act (1990)"?</quote>

        It never will!!! Because Microsoft """owns""" your computer, you are simply allowed to use it!!

      2. CanadianMacFan

        "At what point does it cross over from "fucking stupidity" to "breach of section 3 of the computer misuse act (1990)"?"

        When they got rich enough to be immune from prosecution?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        At what point does it cross over from "fucking stupidity" to "breach of section 3 of the computer misuse act (1990)"?

        I think the moment it installs W10 without your explicit permission. Having said that, GWX in itself could classify for that already as it interrupts you and starts showing advertising without your explicit say-so.

        Caveat: not a lawyer.

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: absolute fucking stupidity

      And Terry/MS know it!

      "Your feedback is so important to our Windows 10 team"; yet he has disabled comments on his blog post...

  3. lnLog
    Thumb Down

    wsusoffline - win

    Windows 10 is the best Windows ever – familiar, safer, faster, and full of innovations - And incompatible with half the commercial engineering software that I run.

    Another reason to use wsusoffline (along with reducing the data for multiple machines).

    1. Kiwi Silver badge

      Re: wsusoffline - win

      And incompatible with half the commercial engineering software that I run.

      And incompatible with most of my customer's hardware too it seems.

      Microsoft, you bunch of retarded fuckwits.. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE USE OF A CLOUD-BASED OS WHEN IT KILLS THE FUCKING NETWORK HARDWARE?

      I am quickly tiring of having to reset machines, or re-install from scratch, because 10 either makes them unable to connect to the net or, in the worst cases, bricks them.

      The lot of you need to die. Slowly and painfully. Over several years. Fuck off and die you worthless lumps of shit. Do the world a favour and leave.

      1. Jos V

        Re: wsusoffline - win

        Agreed. Fuck the cloud. It might be an option if you live and work in a nicely connected first-world country, but not when you live and work in a developing country, as I do now, where having no proper internet connection is kind of expected, and having one is a commodity. Maybe google's loon balloons will actually work here, but I wouldn't rely on any proper cloud services to run reliably through it. MS must think the entire world has access to decent connections.

        And still. Now sitting in my MS update pending list (set not to download, nor install automatically), with some added notes from my searches:

        kb2952664 Win10 nagware

        KB2999226 is a nonsecurity patch for Windows 8.1 that, according to the KB article, sticks a new Universal C Runtime on Windows 8.1 machines. The new Universal C Runtime is needed when programmers use the new Windows 10 Software Development Kit to build Universal/Metro apps and you try to run them on Windows 8.1. It's a mammoth patch, first issued for both Win 7 and Win 8.1 on Sept. 15, then issued for Vista on Sept. 29. There's no indication that the patch has been modified in any other way.

        KB3035583: Ed Bott posted a very thorough analysis of KB 3035583 in his ZDNet report, "Get Windows 10: Microsoft's hidden roadmap for the biggest software upgrade in history." Bott has a less-conspiratorial take on the evidence:

        I have a hard time seeing this as adware. It is, instead, perfectly targeted advertising, offering a free upgrade to a product currently running on the system where the ad is being displayed. There are no hidden costs (aside from those incurred by the download itself) and the upgrade isn't going to be installed without your explicit consent. It can't, because there's at least one license agreement (and probably several) you're going to have to click through.

        KB 3068708:

        KB 3022345, since replaced by KB 3068708, says, "By applying this service, you can add benefits from the latest version of Windows to systems that have not yet been upgraded." That looks like a lightning bolt to any tinfoil hat. Read further, though, and Microsoft says the patch "collects diagnostics about functional issues on Windows systems that participate in the Customer Experience Improvement Program," which is a horse of a very different color.

        KB 3075249, however, doesn't mention anything about CEIP. It's billed as an update that "adds telemetry points to the User Account Control (UAC) feature to collect information on elevations that come from low integrity levels

        KB3080149, This package updates the Diagnostics and Telemetry tracking service to existing devices. This service provides benefits from the latest version of Windows to systems that have not yet upgraded. The update also supports applications that are subscribed to Visual Studio Application Insights.

        kb3092627, update to fix an update kb3076895, fixing XML core service.

        My private laptop runs Mint already (Win7 in VM). My work laptop, which unfortunately has to run applications that don't run in WINE, and a VPN, plus a couple of corporate sites that only run in IE (yeah, really), runs on Win7-pro. With Mint running in VM.

        Fuck MS.

        I'm kind of lucky still, with my MiFi box over LTE giving me 12Mbps peak where I roam around. Fixed internet at my workplace stops at 2Mbps if it is working at all.

        1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

          Re: wsusoffline - win

          > MS must think the entire world has access to decent connections.

          Actually, no. MS believes everybody is sitting on 100-gigabit connections down the hall from the update server.

      2. TimeMaster T
        Mushroom

        Re: wsusoffline - win

        "The lot of you need to die. Slowly and painfully. Over several years. Fuck off and die you worthless lumps of shit. Do the world a favour and leave."

        Take heart!!! That seems to be EXACTLY what Microsoft is doing.

        The downer is that they are "sharing the pain" with the rest of use :(

        1. Spasticus Autisticus
          Mushroom

          Re: wsusoffline - win

          I've been telling my customers* that MS is like a beached whale, it'll take along time to die but it is going nowhere and will die eventually.

          * I provide care in the community for Windows mainly but 95+% of my current customers will be moving to Linux or they won't be my customers any more. A small number that have no choice because of particular software or hardware can stay but I'll be even more ranty about the halfwits at Microsoft.

          1. Just Enough
            Facepalm

            Re: wsusoffline - win

            "95+% of my current customers will be moving to Linux or they won't be my customers any more."

            That's an interesting way of treating your customers. "Do exactly what I say, or I'll stop giving you the option of employing me. Then what'll you do?"

            "A small number that have no choice because of particular software or hardware can stay but I'll be even more ranty about the halfwits at Microsoft."

            That's exactly what your customers pay you for; your permission to use the OS of their choice, plus a lecture with every service call. They must love it.

            1. Stoneshop Silver badge
              Linux

              Re: wsusoffline - win

              That's an interesting way of treating your customers. "Do exactly what I say, or I'll stop giving you the option of employing me. Then what'll you do?"

              "From $date I will support Linux only because $reasons, so if you really, really need to keep using Windows, you'll need to find another source of support before then".. How is that making people do exactly as I say? Depending on the way various people need to be told, more forceful expressions can be in order, but that's entirely between them and me.

              Contracts, whether explicit or implicit (as in, "You're family, I'll help you with that") have two parties. Either end can terminate the contract, given a reasonable notification time. And real support contracts generally stipulate the hardware config AND the software versions covered. So when customers start running W10, unwittingly or not, the supporting party would be entirely justified in saying "tough shit, bye".

            2. JimC Silver badge

              Re: wsusoffline - win

              > That's an interesting way of treating your customers. "Do exactly what I say, or I'll stop giving you

              > the option of employing me. Then what'll you do?"

              You must admit, though, its almost exactly in line with what Microsoft are doing here...

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: wsusoffline - win

            If I were your customer, I'd be looking to get shot of you with a snotty attitude like that.

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
              Facepalm

              Re: wsusoffline - win

              I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the line "care in the community" means he's talking about family/friends/neighbours here, not actual cash paying contracts.

            2. Spasticus Autisticus

              Re: wsusoffline - win

              I want to retire and all my customers know how I feel about the steam driven, three wheeled lorry (truck) with no locks that is Windows, (slow, unstable, bloated, needs loads of extra software to keep it secure-ish). Fuck Microsoft telling me and my customers what we're going to have to do with our PCs, I tell them there are better OSes out there and that I'm unwilling to deal with the MS POS* that drives me to despair. My health is more important to me than my customers and because I'm good at my job almost all will go to Linux or OSX.

              Care in the community - Windows is often sickly & is mentally retarded, I am self-employed fixing computers for a living. My Linux customers (around 30 at present) are a joy to visit when they need something upgraded or added, very rarely fixed.

              *Classic use, not Point of Sale or Proof of Share.....

              1. Vic

                Re: wsusoffline - win

                My Linux customers (around 30 at present) are a joy to visit

                When I was doing at-home PC support a few years back, I moved quite a few "difficult" customers onto Linux. It actually cost me quite a bit - they had significantly fewer callouts than when they were using Windows.

                One guy was very happy until his son came home and *insisted* that the machine be returned to booting Windows by default. And then the callouts resumed.

                Vic.

              2. keithpeter
                Coat

                Re: wsusoffline - win

                "My Linux customers (around 30 at present) are a joy to visit when they need something upgraded or added, very rarely fixed."

                Do they have the root password/sudo?

                Do your customers tend to be individuals with a laptop or small companies with a bit of a network including backup/printing/shared drives?

                Just interested. Happy retirement.

                Coat: this is mainly a Windows topic so I'm sort of off.

                1. Spasticus Autisticus
                  Linux

                  Re: wsusoffline - win

                  @keithpeter

                  I mainly service private individuals with either laptops and/or desktops. I have a few SoHos, usually Hos. I do have one So using a Ubuntu server with a mix of XP (holy crap!) and Win7 desktops with shared files, printing, and backup.

                  All users have sudo for logging in and updates, I doubt very much any install new programs even though I show them how to use Synaptic, once these systems are set up they hardly ever need looking at. There is a 10+ year old laptop out there using Mint 11 (oh well, but it keeps on working), a few on 13, one or two on 16 and the rest on 17.x

                  1. keithpeter
                    Pint

                    Re: wsusoffline - win

                    "There is a 10+ year old laptop out there using Mint 11 (oh well, but it keeps on working), a few on 13, one or two on 16 and the rest on 17.x"

                    Good for you.

                  2. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: wsusoffline - win

                    I have a few SoHos, usually Hos

                    The Hos suggest you're IN Soho :)

                    Yes, coat. The one with the Comedy Store tickets, thanks.

            3. hplasm Silver badge
              Devil

              Re: wsusoffline - win

              "If I were your customer, I'd be looking to get shot of you with a snotty attitude like that."

              Said millions of ex-Windows users, to Microsoft as WinX is forced on more and more unsuspecting machines.

            4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: wsusoffline - win

              "If I were your customer, I'd be looking to get shot of you with a snotty attitude like that."

              To whom was that comment addressed Spasticus Autisticus or Microsoft?

          3. croc

            Re: wsusoffline - win

            Well, if that approach is good enough for Microsoft, why not you?

        2. Charles Manning

          Sharing the pain...

          "The downer is that they are "sharing the pain" with the rest of use :("

          Only the codependent amongst us stick around to enjoy that pain. For those of us who have de-Microsofted it's like slowing down and rubber-necking as we drive past a crash scene.

          As a consultant I'm seeing more and more Linux pop up amongst my customers. They're using VMs so they still have their Windows stuff for email etc as they slowly migrate.

          Even their Windows workspaces have Cygwin with more bash scripting and gcc/gdb based development. That's easing their transition though they don't even realise it.

        3. Mpeler
          Mushroom

          Re: wsusoffline - win

          But I thought that Micro$haft had a "We Share Your Pain" program?

          Seems like A WeSYP ejection for Nadella, all M$ upper manglement,

          and the "ribbon" team is in order.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-c0YSsF_O0

    2. Tuesday Is Soylent Green Day

      Re: wsusoffline - win

      Windows XX is the best Windows ever - So said MS marketing dept every single time a new version was released and almost every time they have been wrong (except maybe Windows 2000 and 7)

      1. thx1138v2

        Re: wsusoffline - win

        You'll notice they don't say for whom it will be best. In my experience it has always been best for MS, not the users.

        One of the previous versions (I think it was Vista but might have been XP) said it would be the "most secure ever" and that turned out to be the most secure for Microsoft's profits and had little to do with user security.

  4. raving angry loony

    Evil

    Forcing an update to an operating system that's incompatible with many people's software? More evil from the definition of "high tech" evil.

    Yep, Microsoft continues to be evil. Told people that for over 30 years. Nobody believed me. Now I make and sell good food as a career, and only use MS crap to play games, mostly. I still tell people Microsoft is evil though. Still, nobody believes me. Even after they bitch about the latest update that killed their system, they still won't believe me.

    I told you so. I fucking told you so. I'll never tire of saying that. Truth might be ignored, but it feels good to say it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Evil

      My wife has a (poorly) configured laptop courtesy of the school she works for and that's exactly the reason why windows update sites are blocked at the router in my house - no way I'm losing all my bandwidth for idiotic shite like this. They never learn.

    2. Badvok

      Re: Evil

      "Forcing an update to an operating system that's incompatible with many people's software?"

      Whereas I'm sure there are a few obscure bits of software that might not work, I certainly haven't found any. For me, with all the developer tools and bespoke apps I run, I can't say I've really noticed any difference going from 7 to 10. I didn't even have to reinstall anything following the in-place update.

      That's all it really is you know, just another update, not really a new OS. Yes they've added a few things and tweaked a few bits under the hood but backwards compatibility is not broken for anything Vista compatible onwards, everything that worked for me under 7 works just as well under 10. Though of course I'm not still holding onto any tools from that long ago.

      1. x 7

        Re: Evil

        "Whereas I'm sure there are a few obscure bits of software that might not work, I certainly haven't found any."

        I can assure that at the moment most mainstream medical software will not work. Also lot of it requires outdated versions of IE.

        1. Gideon 1

          Re: Evil

          "lot of it requires outdated versions of IE"

          Seems you need urgent upgrades your software anyway, so maybe Win 10 is a blessing in disguise.

          1. yakitoo
            Facepalm

            Re: Evil

            "Seems you need urgent upgrades your software anyway, so maybe Win 10 is a blessing in disguise."

            Not if your system is governed by FDA rules.

        2. James O'Shea Silver badge

          Re: Evil

          "Whereas I'm sure there are a few obscure bits of software that might not work, I certainly haven't found any."

          Hmm... let's just say that my sister has asked me to fix her laptop. It seems that she installed Win 10 Home on it (I advised her to get Win 10 Pro if she must install Win 10, but did she listen...) and after she did an obscure bit of software named 'iTunes' didn't work properly. (As it was iTunes, it took a while to become obvious that something was wrong. At first she thought it was just iTunes being iTunes.) Among other things, some of her music vanished.

          Now, she had made a backup before updating (that piece of advice she'd listened to. It might be a result of what happened when she updated from XP to Vista without making a backup first and Stuff Happened(tm)) and she restored the missing music... and the next day said items were missing again.

          Dropping back to Win 7 solved the problems. Except, of course, that iTunes is still iTunes, possibly the single most evil app ever created for Windows. You'd almost think that Apple wants to sabotage Microsoft...

          1. Kiwi Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: Evil @James O'Shea

            You'd almost think that Apple wants to sabotage Microsoft...

            I think MS saw Apple's forces approaching, panicked, and hit the Self Destruct.

          2. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Evil @James O'Shea

            "You'd almost think that Apple wants to sabotage Microsoft..."

            Well given the problems with MS Office 2011 and 2016 on El Capitan there may be some mileage in that. However, MS seem to be able to shot themselves as it seems the MS fix didn't fix the problems people were having with Outlook...

            Other than this, I've not had any problems with El Capitan and other third-party software...

        3. jelabarre59 Silver badge

          Re: Evil

          > I can assure that at the moment most mainstream medical software will not work. Also lot of it requires outdated versions of IE.

          Am I the only one thinking our health system is in a world of shit if medical SW has been allowed to get into this hole? As if it wasn't already in the crapper thanks to Yo-bamacare.

          1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

            Re: Evil

            "As if it wasn't already in the crapper thanks to Yo-bamacare."

            FWIW, I assumed that the crap healthcare system in question was the NHS. I dare say commentards living in yet other countries assumed it was theirs. Ho hum...

      2. Whistlerspa

        Re: Evil

        I went along with Windows 10 on both my laptops and no issues. They work better on this OS than 8 or 8.1. The older one had Windows 7 on it originally but was upgraded to 8 and then 10. The newer one had a clean install. Getting tired of all the scaremongering and paranoia associated with this OS.

        1. Chris G Silver badge

          Re: Evil PR

          Interesting once more; last time I read a thread on The Reg like this one, I remarked that a few of the positive sounding comments on W10 were written like PR copy, paid for by someone.

          Whistlerspa and Badvok both have that style of writing.

          Tell me I'm wrong!

      3. Kiwi Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: Evil

        Whereas I'm sure there are a few obscure bits of software that might not work, I certainly haven't found any.

        We're seeing machines less then a year old where 10 is reporting hardware is suddenly "No longer present" (or however 10 states that the hardware is not working because it's not there). Had a HP AIO (fairly expensive one at that) belonging to a deaf chap (thus his main means of communication) that presented at first with RAM problems, but then every module we tried failed until in desperation (because I had seen the thing boot dammit!) I tried a 1Gb module we had (very early DDR3). It booted. I was able to get a temporary Win8 install on a temp HDD and get re-flash the BIOS with the latest from HP. It worked fine, so back to the original HDD. Week later (or less), machine back. Same fault. Thankfully a lot quicker. Win 10 doing a neat BIOS update (or something like that) for the customer - unasked, and it was incompatible so screwed the machine up. The ONLY way to fix it was to remove 10. And turn all updates off until this mess is fixed. (Yes yes.. Turning updates off makes the machine vulnerable.. Well you retarded fuckturds at MS, a machine that won't boot certainly is not vulnerable!)

        Have seen a number of business applications fail as well. Nothing I would call "obscure" although names escape me atm. Common stuff..

        Oh, and I have seen several uncommon programs (including one rare one called "Firefox" and another called "Thunderbird" that maybe only one or two people use) disappear complete with their data - without warning. So a business loses all their emails - or would do if it wasn't for some rather strict backup policies we have regarding customer data and 10.

        10 is trashing machines, and having a negative impact on many businesses. Since it's release we have now had at least 20 business customers who have been without one or more critical machines for several days due to this farce.

        Fuck off and die MS.

        (On the plus side, I now have over a dozen new Linux clients to support! And several more to come in the next few weeks!)

        1. Badvok

          Re: Evil

          " Win 10 doing a neat BIOS update"

          Now I've heard everything, Windows 10 is able to flash your BIOS without even prompting you - Wow! Next we'll be hearing that Windows 10 can actually modify the user's DNA!

          1. Kiwi Silver badge
            Linux

            Re: Evil

            Now I've heard everything, Windows 10 is able to flash your BIOS without even prompting you - Wow! Next we'll be hearing that Windows 10 can actually modify the user's DNA!

            Ok, so explain what was happening with Win 10 on the machine (and only with W10, not 8 or something else) that was causing the machine to fail in such a way that it could only recognise 1G ram modules (only single ones at that), not 2g modules nor the 16g (either or both of the 2x8g sticks) the machine had in it, which could only be fixed by re-flashing the BIOS? Which, BTW, you have to do in Windows 8 because that's the only OS that HP releases the update utility for on that model.

            And by not booting I mean giving the standard HP "beep codes" for a RAM fault. No display, no booting the OS, just the beep codes.

            Oh, and you do realise that modern BIOS's, even before (U)EFI was common, have had Windows-based tools (eg "Win Flash" from Insyde) to flash them, right? (not for all, but many and growing) You are aware that it's a small jump from double-clicking an executable you downloaded to your desktop to flash your BIOS (or firmaware or UEFI or whatever) to having it happen "automatically", done by a mechanism built into the OS, right?

            Not hard at all to do really. Once Win Flash (and similar) came along, it was really only a small step to automating it.

            If 10 is intended to handle ALL OS updates including all driver, firmware and so on updates without "bothering" the user - all in the interests of security - then why do you find it odd that BIOS updates would be included in that?

          2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

            Re: Evil / altering DNA

            "Now I've heard everything, Windows 10 is able to flash your BIOS without even prompting you - Wow! Next we'll be hearing that Windows 10 can actually modify the user's DNA!"

            Bah. Win95 could already do that, given the right hardware.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Evil

        Windows 10 broke my touchpad... and was just not.. nice to use... I was on windows 8.1, so its not that nice anyway, but damn it was just bad! How the hell was I supposed to fix the touchpad problem without a touchpad!!!

        1. <spez>

          Re: Evil

          had the same problem with an Asus laptop, it meant just removing and adding the device again.

          the trick is doing that with just the laptops keyboard.

          lots of Alt's and tab's used.

          but took 15 mins max, a ball ache; yes, shouldn't of happened; yes. End of the world; Nope.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Evil

          How the hell was I supposed to fix the touchpad problem without a touchpad

          Well, if you got a touch-screen like MS was telling you to do then you wouldn't have that problem now, would you?

          You've only got yourselves to blame for ignoring them - and now look what's happened, they have to force you ignorant bastards to do as your told!

        3. jelabarre59 Silver badge

          Re: Evil

          > Windows 10 broke my touchpad... and was just not.. nice to use... I was on windows 8.1, so its not that nice anyway, but damn it was just bad! How the hell was I supposed to fix the touchpad problem without a touchpad!!!

          Ah, you mean the one where just *using* the touchpad would cause MSWin10 to BSOD? That one was just outright impressive; touch the touchpad and your machine crashes. Good thing it was a crappy test laptop and not a machine doing actual *work*.

        4. Bluto Nash
          Trollface

          Re: Evil

          How the hell was I supposed to fix the touchpad problem without a touchpad

          I dunno, plug in a $4 USB mouse?

          1. Kiwi Silver badge

            Re: Evil

            How the hell was I supposed to fix the touchpad problem without a touchpad

            I dunno, plug in a $4 USB mouse?

            Perhaps he did, and is still waiting for windows to install the driver... Or maybe he can't remember which USB port he had it in last time so has to wait while windows reboots because you moved a USB mouse to a different port...

            (Which I have seen 8.1 do in the last 72 hours)

      5. FlameButt

        Re: Evil

        How can you call it "just" an upgrade? And you consider their changes to be "tweaked a few bits under the hood"? Microsoft must LOVE people like you...

        What gets me the most about that 'upgrade' comment is (and no-one else seems to have mentioned it yet) is the look and feel of the new OS!

        I have no desire to use an Operating System that looks like this - starting with Windows 8 M$ have tried to ease us into the 'this could be your phone you are using now' mentality and I am curious why? No, I'm not actually - I can work out the advantages of mobile technology for myself and don't need others to tell me I need it.

        And the new Windows 10 flat-UI look - what happens if I literally just don't like it, can I make it look like XP anymore? Even Windows 7 with Aero was survivable but this...

        Perhaps I am just too old-fashioned but having a GUI that looks like a GUI is important to me - if I wanted a flat look I should be able to apply it, not have it shoved in my face and down my throat.

        </rant> Phew! I've been waiting to say that for a long time...

        1. Badvok

          Re: Evil

          FlameButt: "What gets me the most about that 'upgrade' comment is (and no-one else seems to have mentioned it yet) is the look and feel of the new OS!"

          Ah, so you haven't actually used Windows 10 then, fair enough. When you do get around to looking at it you'll find that you don't have to use any of the new UI stuff, in fact you can pretty much make it look and behave just like Windows 7. This was the big U-turn people were talking about a little while back that I guess you missed.

          1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

            Re: Evil

            > in fact you can pretty much make it look and behave just like Windows 7. This was the big U-turn people were talking about a little while back that I guess you missed.

            Ah, so you can disable the themes service and get back the Win2000 look, just like you could all the way through MSWin7??? What? No you can't? Ah, I guess I must have misunderstood you while you were talking out of your ass.

          2. The Travelling Dangleberries

            Re: Evil

            @ Badvok

            "When you do get around to looking at it you'll find that you don't have to use any of the new UI stuff, in fact you can pretty much make it look and behave just like Windows 7."

            Well it is good to know that MS have reinstated the clean and simple "Classic" W95/NT4 grey UI, that went footsie when Win 8 was introduced. That is how my Windows 7 looks and behaves.

            That is what you meant, right?

            1. Badvok

              Re: Evil

              No, I meant what I said, Windows 7, not other ancient UIs. Though of course you should note that many applications written for those ancient systems you appear to like do actually still work on Windows 10.

        2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

          Re: Evil

          > And the new Windows 10 flat-UI look - what happens if I literally just don't like it, can I make it look like XP anymore? Even Windows 7 with Aero was survivable but this...

          I like the comparison I set up here: http://www.windows10forums.com/threads/colors-themes.648/#post-2782

          1. Col_Panek

            Re: Evil

            Zorin or Mint.

        3. Pookietoo
          Windows

          Re: Microsoft must LOVE people like you

          They must, they pay people like him.

  5. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I shall be trying openSUSE on my last remaining Windows system

      So you still run windows then ?

      1. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

        Re: I shall be trying openSUSE on my last remaining Windows system

        "So you still run windows then ?"

        That box has been sitting in a corner, unused and unloved, for the last 2 years or so.

        As I recall it got into a loop downloading the same patches again and again, at which point I switched it off, intending to have another go.

        To be frank I couldn't be bothered.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: I shall be trying openSUSE on my last remaining Windows system

          "That box has been sitting in a corner, unused and unloved, for the last 2 years or so."

          Nice one! Reeled him in beautifully.

  6. Vince

    Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

    It's absolutely bloody ridiculous. Generally speaking, I like Microsoft's technology, but this is a total joke, and my current policy is now to disable updates entirely on machines I have, so I can take control back - I don't mind SECURITY updates and the like being applied, but downloading an entire OS is mentally stupid.

    It's causing all kinds of issues - sudden poor performance of customer connections when in some cases hundreds of computers suddenly go for a look (And no, they often don't have managed updates via WSUS etc)... machines that are totally broken post update, applications that are no longer working but which are mission critical.

    This is absolutely and completely breaking the trust in Microsoft's update systems and the purpose of the tool for protecting customers.

    Bad Bad Bad.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Vince - Re: Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

      Trust and Microsoft in the same affirmative sentence? Surely you can't possibly be serious.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @Vince - Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

        Trust and Microsoft in the same affirmative sentence: "Trust Microsoft to really screw you about and eat your bandwidth installing Gigabytes of stuff you didn't ask for"

        Is that affirmative enough?

      2. banalyzer

        Re: @Vince - Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

        Vince is entirely serious. Companies trust Microsoft because they don't normally have a plan 'B'.

        The one I work at has a couple of mainframes, some Linux based servers, more MS based servers and every desktop is Win7, well apart from the 12 that run XP and a bit of software that 7 vomits all over.

        The servers are slowly ( only about another decade to go ) being moved over to linux but the desktop is geared to stay solely MS.

        If MS closed up tomorrow there would be panic in the upper echelons with what are *you* going to do about it questions. Talk to anyone in a large company with real decision making authority and they probably aren't aware that there is another OS other than MS. Even apple will be seen as 'those gadget fellas'

    2. VinceH Silver badge

      Re: Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

      "and my current policy is now to disable updates entirely on machines I have, so I can take control back"

      You - and anyone else that does this - might want to double check that on occasion.

      I now do similar; I let it check for updates automatically, and sometimes take articles like this one as a prompt to wander off to Windows Update to see if there is anything there to either ignore (and hide) or install.

      The first thing I saw on the main Windows Update screen was:

      "You're set to automatically install updates"

      Which is completely different the "You're set to automatically check for updates" that should be there.

      And looking at my update history, I see an update on 20th October (KB3105216 - relating to Flash, which I don't even have installed). The last time I installed updates was the 16th October.

      Obviously, I've now changed it back to automatic checking, so that I can manually install or not.

    3. regadpellagru

      Re: Undoing all the hard work in trustworthy computing...

      "It's absolutely bloody ridiculous. Generally speaking, I like Microsoft's technology, but this is a total joke, and my current policy is now to disable updates entirely on machines I have, so I can take control back"

      + 1, here. Windows 7 in a locked-up VM, no network. Enabling network has now become dangerous, and frankly, I don't really need it ...

  7. Mark 85 Silver badge

    Appropriate Winston Churchill paraphrase for us hardcore holdouts...

    "We shall defend our current OS, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

    1. brainout

      Re: Appropriate Winston Churchill paraphrase for us hardcore holdouts...

      Wow, you took the words right outta my mouth, literally. I was referencing Churchill at the same time, here: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/594817/windows-10-updates-policy-change-more-of-the-same/?p=3852039

      Just happened to be watching WWII movies and posting them from Youtube, here: http://brainout.net/frankforum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=365 , so the obvious parallel to this latests hitlerian complement to hitlerian Paragraph 3 of aka.ms/msa couldn't be missed.

      And here you were, typing the same thing in your OWN way!

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    theregister.co.uk has posted the story. Psyop team needs to blanket this one ASAP.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 7 on a P4

    For reasons only Microsoft could fathom, I was given the "opportunity" to upgrade to Windows 10. As my machine is a P4 without NX, it is incapable of running even Windows 8. They are a tad to enthusiastic methinks.

    1. amolbk

      Re: Windows 7 on a P4 (Unsupported PCs)

      I hope they don't automatically download Windows 10 on unsupported PCs.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Unsupported PCs

        They did exactly that to me this week. I used the media creation tool to try to upgrade my machine, it downloaded 3GB of stuff and *then* announced that it was going to throw it all away because the machine didn't have 2GB RAM.

    2. bazza Silver badge

      Re: Windows 7 on a P4

      "As my machine is a P4 without NX..."

      Retro-estimable!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 7 on a P4

        To be fair, it does have a 60Mb internet connection, SSDs and an OK graphics card, so the performance is quite acceptable for 99% of things I do.

        The worst was running SQL Server Management Studio connected to the client via a VPN. SSMS is a slug, to be sure.

        I run PaleMoon, Thunderbird, LibreOffice and various assorted odds and ends. I have already ripped all my CDs and the occasional addition is no big chore. HD video is an issue I admit, but that's why I have a TV. I don't "game".

        So there you have it. I could probably save electricity by upgrading the MB, but then I would need to buy another Win7 licence - perhaps paying the utility company is the lesser of two evils.

    3. Allan George Dyer Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Windows 7 on a P4

      In other news, the National Trust has reported that Stonehenge will be closed for "unexpected system updates".

      1. Teiwaz Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Windows 7 on a P4

        Granite chip Technology...

        > 'In other news, the National Trust has reported that Stonehenge will be closed for "unexpected system updates".'

        Could do with it, the planetary alignment is out by a couple of thousand years. Still got plenty of bus capacity (no end of buses last time I was there).

        And there's talk of 'tunneling', so maybe someones still thinks it's worth hacking...

        1. tony2heads

          Re: Stonehenge

          Wait for the precession of equinoxes; it will be about right in another 20,000 years

          1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
            Coat

            Re: Stonehenge

            Nah, all the Druids know it is far easier to build a new 64 MegaLith computer than upgrading the old one

            Doffs hat to the late great Terry Prattchet

          2. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge
            Joke

            Re: Stonehenge

            Would switching it off and on again help?

  10. Your alien overlord - fear me

    What is familiar in Windows 10 compared to Windows 7? Never did Win8 so all these tiles and rubbish are just that. Did a proper upgrade to Linux (and yes, I am a MCSE with my work hat on).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Linux is working for me.

      Linux isn't trouble-free, there are old Windows habits I shall have to unlearn, but it's working.

      Linux is using less than half the RAM of Windows when newly booted.

      I have had some horrible chases for software.

      The Alt key works differently. It's not just about getting unusual characters that are not on the keyboard, but keyboard shortcuts. Try using the "Windows" key and the Alt key together as a substitute.

      And it seems to be pot luck whether Adobe Flash content works or not.

      Getting hardware to work can be interesting, in rather frightening ways.

      But nobody expects me to use Internet Explorer.

      And the sometimes slipshod documentation is mostly just differently bad.

      Saying you can't change OS is like saying you can't use a mobile phone without it using Windows.

      1. DJV Silver badge

        "And it seems to be pot luck whether Adobe Flash content works or not."

        If you're lucky, it won't...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Linux is working for me.

        And it seems to be pot luck whether Adobe Flash content works or not.

        Another thing the Clowns of Redmond got wrong. Had W10 completely blocked rubbish like Flash, it would have irritated a few people, but very quickly web sites would have dumped Flash, and it could be consigned more quickly to the rubbish bin of history, where it is slowly (too slowly) heading. In fact, W10 should have been designed to be incompatible with all Adobe software, bar none.

        That would have been the biggest single security improvement in Windows history. Instead we get Cortana, and a greater services attack surface, and STILL THE FUCKERS HAVEN'T FIXED THE START MENU.

        Out of curiosity, does anybody round here know whether MS monitor blogs, news sites and social media? And if they do, do they simply ignore all the negatives, and then use the (few?) positives to reinforce the bizarre decisions they keep taking?

        I can understand that if they did listen to the web, they'd be so depressed they'd get signed off work, so maybe they ignore user views for Health & Safety reasons.

        1. mmeier

          Re: Linux is working for me.

          Thankfully MS was NOT stupid and did NOT follow the brain dead advice to block Flash or other Adobe software!

          Since Windows in various versions runs on 92.x percent of the desktops that would quickly result in lawsuits from users AND Adobe. Lawsuits that MS would LOOSE!

          So wipe the froth from your moth, stop stomping with your little floppy feet and leave the adults alone, will you?

          1. Lorin Thwaits

            Re: Linux is working for me.

            "Windows in various versions runs on 92.x percent of the desktops (blocking flash) would quickly result in lawsuits from users AND Adobe. Lawsuits that MS would LOOSE!"

            Microsoft is going to let loose lawsuits against itself??? That would be wonderful because it would save valuable time as we all wait patiently for this completely antiquated organization to systematically self-destruct. So far this process has been agonizingly slow, and we could all benefit by expediting things, and getting the world switched over to an OS that actually cares about the best interest of its users.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Linux is working for me.

          It depends on which blog you read. On just strictly user/non-tech sites, the sheep love Windows 10 and they defend it to death. (it's FREE) They are happy that M$ routes through all their drives and is acting like a policeman in whether to disable things it thinks it should not be there. They don't seem to understand that privacy is a thing to cherish and are happy that M$ reads all emails and keylogs them for 'an improved' experience (whatever that means). So called experts endorse Windows 10 as the greatest thing ever. The Internet is a really big place where you can find anything or anyone to agree with any nonsense. As there are more morons in the world than intelligent. M$ and their shills are partying all the way to the bank or lawsuits. They know their actions are questionable but are gambling that moronism will prevail.

        3. PaulFrederick

          Re: Linux is working for me.

          Block all Adobe software? But I like Acrobat Reader!

      3. mmeier

        Re: Linux is working for me.

        The problem with Linux is not the core OS, that is POUX - Plain Ole UniX. The problem with Linux for me is the rest. An OS is just a means to run Software and support Hardware, not something important in itself (unless you are an OS programmer). And that is where it is lacking for my needs.

        At work I have no choice anyway since company decrees (not that I need one) and it is Windows. Even if given a choice quite a few things would not run (OneNote - no the Apps are NOT the same, local SharePoint, Outlook/Exchange - the only competitor is Notes/Domino, etc)

        Privatly I have no choice since needed programs will not run / only run with a lot more effort on Linux. One MAY be able to run Lightroom in WINE - but why spend more effort? There may be a way to run AutoRealm - but the thing is fiddly enough in Windows. And so on

      4. PaulFrederick

        Re: Linux is working for me.

        I expect you to use IE, in Linux! Seriously install it using winetricks. For the lulz.

        Supported hardware should just work in Linux. If you have unsupported hardware that's your fault.

        Although sometimes the support is just not configured in a kernel. Kernel configuration, and building can be an adventure sometimes. An adventure I think every Linux user should try someday too.

        There is a lot of documentation concerning kernel building. I couldn't point out the definitive work there myself. I'd have to say anyone would benefit by reading a few different takes on the topic before attempting the task themselves.

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: Linux is working for me.

          "Supported hardware should just work in Linux. If you have unsupported hardware that's your fault."

          Really? I should have known what MS were going to do when I purchased my computers? How?

        2. Stoneshop Silver badge

          Re: Linux is working for me.

          For the last ten years or so I haven't had any need for a homebuilt kernel (Gentoo excluded, obviously); the last one was on a SuSE 7.mumble. This on a variety of desktops and laptops. And even in the case of one particular laptop that needs a 32-bit non-PAE kernel, it's easier doing a minimal install of one distro that provides the right kernel, then topping it off with a related distro that offers the desktop environment best suited to that machine.

  11. Unicornpiss Silver badge
    Meh

    Microsoft...

    Listen Microsoft, Adobe, etc.: Some people just want to purchase a piece of software and use it until it is obsolete or they get sick of it, whether it is an operating system, a piece of Office software, etc. Not everyone wants to or needs to be in constant contact with the mothership, subscribe to something for life just to use it, or be marketed to and thus exchange their freedom to use a device, no matter that it is supposedly "free."

    I am grateful to Microsoft for the innovation they have given the world in past years, and I am gainfully employed supporting MS Operating Systems and other products, but when my day is done, I boot up Linux and enjoy it in very much the same way that a weary traveller sick of airports and crowds of bleating sheep comes home and locks his/her doors, stretches out on the couch, and cracks open an adult beverage of whatever suits their predilection. No marketing, no idiocy, no ridiculous attempts to either protect me from myself or try to think for me. (as MS always gets it wrong when they try) No one is telling me "my computer could run faster" (it's already plenty fast without the bloat, thanks), forcing their partners' offerings down my throat, capturing demographic information, and when I launch a web browser or application for example, it comes up nearly instantly, not after a 5-10 second delay and without "Suggested Sites" appearing on my bookmarks bar even after I opted out of it, or some cutesy "First things first" message. And without running a service in the background to make sure I haven't suddenly decided to pirate it in the last half hour.

    Oh, and a note about software updates: I click the icon on my freeware (as in speech and beer) Linux OS and it shows me exactly what it's going to do, then does it quickly, without closing any apps, and without any reboot unless it's a kernel update. I try the same on Windows and it laboriously downloads updates, apparently from the slowest server in existence, takes forever to install them, then after a reboot and "Preparing to configure Windows" (I guess preparation is everything), it may actually be usable in another 10-100 minutes, assuming it doesn't decide to do "reverting changes" for a long time, then try again...and again... and again... "Something went wrong." Ugh.

    What I really fear is that the world at large is going to be brainwashed into thinking there is no better way than the MS way of waiting forever and being marketed to, and their complacence will leave us all stranded in the mud rut that is Microsoft in 2015.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft...

      Your fear has proven to be true. Brainwashing already happened with a high rate of success.

      1. frank ly Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft...

        When I first installed and used Linux Mint, over two years ago, I thought that the system update wasn't working properly because it only took about two minutes and didn't insist that I rebooted after it had finished. After that, for a while, I used to watch it in amazement as it downloaded and installed system AND program/application/package updates at what seemed to be incredible speed. I'm never going back.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Microsoft...

          Shut up. You've convincing me to go back to Linux this weekend.

    2. nematoad Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Microsoft...

      "...and without any reboot unless it's a kernel update. "

      Obviously you haven't swapped Pulseaudio <spit> in or out then.

      Watch out for Poettering and co, they are trying really hard to turn Linux into a second-rate Windows clone, complete with mandatory reboots.

      1. Teiwaz Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Microsoft...

        > "Watch out for Poettering and co, they are trying really hard to turn Linux into a second-rate Windows clone, complete with mandatory reboots."

        Which mandatory reboots are these then? - Archlinux Desktop user (with both systemd + pulseaudio) and frequent updater. My current uptime is 1 week, 1 day, 12 hours, 32 minutes....oh, and the kernel was updated yesterday,...

        As for 'second-rate Windows clone. X-windows pre-dates Windows by almost ten years, so I'm tempted to class Windows as a second-rate X-windows clone.

        1. Andy A

          Re: Microsoft... (new calculator battery required)

          X-windows first appeared at MIT in 1984.

          Windows 1.0 shipped in November 1985.

        2. fnj

          Re: Microsoft...

          <blockquote>Which mandatory reboots are these then? - Archlinux Desktop user (with both systemd + pulseaudio) and frequent updater. My current uptime is 1 week, 1 day, 12 hours, 32 minutes....oh, and the kernel was updated yesterday,...</blockquote>

          I use Arch too, but I know what I am doing. If you update to a new kernel and do not reboot, YOU ARE NOT USING THE NEW KERNEL YET. Arch does not hold your hand. You can say it is not mandatory to update after a kernel update, but that strikes me as a bit distorting the point. You can put off rebooting Windows, too.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft...

      "Listen Microsoft, Adobe"

      oh, please, we will rant, and they will go their own way of corporations: they say they "listen", but in reality they "hear what you're saying".

  12. Pliny the Whiner

    "[a]nd soon this will be widened to all machines running a genuine copy of Win 7 and 8.1."

    This doesn't apply to pirated copies then? Thank god for small favors.

    1. DougS Silver badge

      I wonder how they tell? Since my Windows 7 install (as well as my parents) are using the Daz Loader, even though both machines are legally licensed for Windows 7 (the shitty OEM version riddled with bloatware) I wonder if it will think they are pirated or legal? Hopefully pirated, if that means they will never get Windows 10 pushed on them!

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Thanks DougS. Yer blood's worth bottlin' as we say in these parts :-)

      2. Spacedinvader
        Gimp

        Pirated versions still get the upgrade

    2. Pompous Git Silver badge

      This doesn't apply to pirated copies then?

      Does this mean I'm better off chucking my legitimate Win7 copies and using pirated copies instead?

    3. Ian Emery Silver badge
      Joke

      GENUINE ONLY??

      I will be swapping out all my real licenses for Chinese hacked versions (English is available, but only China option for time and location).

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > "[a]nd soon this will be widened to all machines running a genuine copy of Win 7 and 8.1."

      > This doesn't apply to pirated copies then? Thank god for small favors.

      Yeah, my MSWin7 installs (VMs only) are all MSW7 Eval versions hacked to auto-reset the eval, and thankfully I have never seen a popup or fixpack come in to try and move it to MSW10.

  13. Lee D Silver badge

    What about tablets? Those 16Gb/32Gb Windows ones that are cheap-as-chips? You seriously going to download 3Gb of crap without asking and then try to install it on a device that you can't boot into any kind of rescue system? Honestly?

    There's a reason that I just switch off automatic update programs. That includes Windows Update. If and when I deem a certain update is required, *I* will take a backup, *I* will verify I have a restore path, and *I* will choose which updates and when I will apply them. Because anything else is just a path to device suicide.

    As noted above, PC's without the capability to run Windows 10 are being offered the upgrade. What about strange UEFI BIOS etc.? What about encrypted devices with third-party encryption? What about plain-and-simple apps that just don't work on Windows 10 (they exist - I have been specifically advised by two banks and at least three software manufacturers to NOT upgrade to Windows 10 if I want to keep using their services, until they have "fixed incompatibilities and rolled out a verified update"). You honestly think your OS is that infallible that you can guarantee booting, guarantee rollback to previous state, no matter what the user has done with their computer in the years they've been using it? If so, I'm immediately calling you a liar, or an idiot, Microsoft.

    A few years ago I would have been rubbing my hands - when I fixed any and all PC's that I was offered, as part of my small business and private work. I moved away from that area of IT for a reason. I just don't do those kinds of things even as favours nowadays - the hassle involved is just not worth it.

    But forcibly upgrading people's PC's - even with a confirmation dialog? That's just a recipe for disaster.

    Note: Out of the four people who have mentioned Windows 10 in passing to me in work (because I'm the IT guy, obviously), one managed to lose all their files (we assume she clicked the wrong thing somewhere and didn't "upgrade" as much as "wipe out and start again"), another lost four programs that wouldn't run again (and nothing particularly unusual), the third trashed the machine and it wouldn't boot, the fourth ended up with a start menu that crashed every 30 seconds and wanted you to sign out and sign back in to fix it... which took ten minutes and then just crashed again every time (I actually installed Classic Shell for them as there was no other way to revert that one, no restore points, no backups, no backwards path at all, and you couldn't do anything - even recover files - with the start menu crashing constantly. Classic Shell "avoided" the problem as it replaces explorer.exe as the shell, but it still crashes on other users, etc. on the same machine. At least they can get their files off it, though).

    This stuff is just not that infallible and - like I explain to my employers whenever they query "why something's gone wrong 'again' ?" - if you have only a 0.1% failure rate with updates, that's between 1 and 2 machines out of action every time you single time you apply an update for a large company. Multiply by the number of updates deployed over the course of a year and nothing would ever work without the homogeneous hardware, the testing, imaging, deployment strategies, etc. that we employ. As it is, the fact that we sometimes have to say "X is not going to work from next year" (e.g. Java/Silverlight in the browser for non-IE browsers, for instance) is frowned upon already.

    If that failure rate is critical, like an OS upgrade including complete program migrations and user areas on a personal PC, then the failure rate goes up, and the chances of fixing it plummets. If it's an unannounced, spur-of-the-moment, user-makes-the-decision update, on a personal PC then you aren't even likely to have backups or restore disks anywhere nearby (if at all!).

    Just turn this stuff off. Stop using IE. Update your antivirus, browser and firewall software religiously, and ignore everything else. At least if they break, you stand a good chance of just uninstalling and reinstalling just those and keeping a working PC. They are your first lines of defence anyway - if something gets to the point that it can execute code, it's game over because Windows Updates never solve all the problems that are live and affecting the PC anyway.

    But, honestly, forcing an OS update this critical and with this many logistical problems (e.g. pre-downloading huge amounts and then just attempting a reboot-install on god-knows-what hardware that you may not even be able to have space to recover, let alone a BIOS you can access), that's just asking to wipe Windows 10 reputation out immediately even if it's not a bad OS. People whinged when an album got pushed to their iPods, what the hell come of comeback were you expecting from forcibly upgrading their Windows?

    1. anonymuos

      If Classic Shell is crashing, you can create a crash dump using these instructions: http://www.classicshell.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6 and post the dump to their forum. The developer is so responsive he will fix the crash in the next version.

      1. Lee D Silver badge

        Nope - Classic Shell did not crash.

        Windows explorer.exe / Start Menu did.

        I replaced it WITH Classic Shell to fix the problem. It's a horrible bodge, but it worked enough to get data off it.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Devil

      And I bet there will be reports of the update being pushed again after rollback.

  14. Captain DaFt

    We are thankful

    From the bottom of our hearts for all that Microsoft has provided for us with their Windows 10 initiative.

    Signed:

    Mark Shuttleworth

    Tim Cook

    Hiroshi Lockheimer

    Plus many, many computer repair shop owners the World over

    1. Jack of Shadows Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: We are thankful

      Inevitably said (paraphrased) on any battlefield, anywhere: "For the Gifts We are about to receive, Let Us Be Thankful!"

      I see I have a new mission statement. Neutering Windows Updates and applying the updates myself for each and every Windows machine. That's a lot of machines. In the meantime, well it's been, for the most part, nice Microsoft. Even cleaning up the wreckage left strewn about after an update or malware storm was easy, for certain definitions of easy. But I'm going to be like Marvin in Die Hard 2. "I'm not cleaning up this mess."

      Aside: Can you picture the lawyers sharks circling Redmond?

      1. brainout

        Re: We are thankful

        The whole thing is designed by lawyers, in the name of 'monetizing the desktop'. See, if MSFT arrogates to itself the right to POLICE your data per a CODE OF CONDUCT enjoined upon you when you first install Win10 -- and you can't know that, because to read those LICENSE provisions you need a browser into which you can paste aka.ms/msa and read its Paragraph 3 -- if MSFT thus becomes POLICEMAN, it can justify SLURPING ALL YOUR PRIVATE DATA and thus target ads to you.

        The lawyers then smack their lips, for the very act of slurping puts MSFT in a litigious position, a) because the disclosure isn't properly done at installation, and b) all third party data on client machines is thus BREACHED into MSFT servers, so any fourth party can now sue MSFT to provide that data in the name of ACCUSATIONS pursuant to Paragraph 3a of aka.ms/msa .

        I tried to flesh out the salient legal issues here, http://brainout.net/frankforum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=59

        Now, since that's an unavoidably and provably IMMORAL thing MSFT has done, the MSFT fanboys will do all they can to subvert its discovery.

        Bear in mind none of those provisions can be legally used by governments. Governments, must have warrants. MSFT is arrogating to itself a power no government has, to unilaterally act as judge, jury, and executioner over your behavior. Which, is slurped by bots.

        Sounds like a bad movie, huh. GO READ IT.

        1. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

          Re: We are thankful

          That's interesting.aka.ms/msa is also now access denied which joins cia.gov. Guess I'll have to read it in a disposable VM.

      2. mmeier

        Re: We are thankful

        The "For the gifts..." talk typically starts "St. Barbara be praised!" and is typically given when the enemy starts to throw the big stuff on you.(St. Barbara is, among others, the patron-saint of Artilleryman)

        Not that I mind MS bringing out the K5(E)s to shell the Penguins at Anzio...

      3. Kiwi Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: We are thankful

        Aside: Can you picture the lawyers sharks circling Redmond?

        Yep.. One of the greatest joys in my life ATM is watching the flood of shit headed their way.

        I'm soooo looking forward to a MS free world! No more crap AV, no more odly trashed systems, no more nice people at the point of tears over MS's latest stuffup.

        Don't care if we ever have a "year of the Linux desktop", all I really want is "Day MS dies"

      4. banalyzer
        Linux

        Re: We are thankful

        I think a more appropriate one would be from dear old Boney

        Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake

        see icon

    2. Kiwi Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: We are thankful @ Captain DaFt Silver badge

      Plus many, many computer repair shop owners the World over

      I almost downvoted you for this!

      Not because of the massive pre-Christmas rush we are getting (when normally work would be starting to tail off as people plan to spend money on presents for their kids, not fixing the computer the kids broke), but because as I said a wee while ago, I am so sick of cleaning up the mess from this fuckup. I am sick to fucking death of seeing customers who I have come to know and like being upset because their machines are stuffed, and in some cases they're looking at the possibility that their data is gone (yes, they are sadly human and as much as we try to help them over the condition they generally all suffer from dontbackupitis).

      But, for the first year in our not-quite-2-years in operation, I can give a holiday bonus to my staff - all because of W10. So you still get the upvote :)

    3. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

      Re: We are thankful

      "Plus many, many computer repair shop owners the World over"

      The cyncial side of me says that Microsoft doesn't care a hoot if working systems are wrecked.

      In fact they probably hope that it will drive sales of new PCs with Windows 10 preinstalled.

  15. Heff

    When you're not billing us, you're billing someone else.

    I'd rather be your customer, not your merchandise.

    GFY.

  16. Mad_Max

    It's business as usual at Malwaresoft

    When you read Terry Myerson blog he makes it sound like Microsoft will be more transparent about it's updates giving you the option not to install windows 10, if you do and you don't like it you can easily uninstall it. But in a phone interview with Mary Jo Foley and Terry Myerson on 10/29/15 it becomes obvious that it's business as usual. The most interesting paragraph in the interview was this.

    "Microsoft is not changing its policy of downloading part of the Windows 10 code proactively to users' machines to make upgrading faster. That behavior will continue, Myerson said. But unless users make the final decision to hit upgrade, Windows 10 will not completely install and replace their existing Windows versions."

    I guarantee you the part of Windows 10 code there forcing everyone to download has to do with telemetry, your information and the ability to track you is what they want. I had the same problem on 10/13/15 when my updates settings where change by Microsoft from let me choose which updates to install to install updates automatically. I couldn't remove the updates using the standard windows update removal process and had to use cmd.exe for the removal, oddly enough the telemetry update (KB2952664) took three times. Now I have windows updates turned off and only install updates after I've done considerable research on them.

  17. Winkypop Silver badge
    Facepalm

    "users will be asked if they want to boot into Windows 10"

    Such generosity, wow!

    Don't worry about:

    - Bandwidth

    - Download quotas

    - HDD space

    - Incompatible s/w

    - User ability

    - Impact on designated support staff (aka: family members, aka: me)

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: "users will be asked if they want to boot into Windows 10"

      The bastards used up all my mobile data when on a trip to the mainland and half my monthly quota on my FW broadband connection at home. Just spent two weeks shaped to 256 Kb/s instead of the usual 10 Mb/s. The HTPC runs Windows Media Centre; the SW that came with the DVBTV card doesn't run on W7 (or Linux) so it's not likely to run on W10. WMC doesn't exist under W10...

      1. nematoad Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: "users will be asked if they want to boot into Windows 10"

        "Just spent two weeks shaped to 256 Kb/s instead of the usual 10 Mb/s."

        My heart bleeds for you.

        Actually it doesn't, 256Kb/s?

        Good God I wish it was as fast as that here!

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: "users will be asked if they want to boot into Windows 10"

          My heart doesn't bleed (yet), but you have The Git's sympathies and he hears your cry! Not so very long ago, he too was at the very far end of a very thin pipe. Happily, he used the fastest, smallest web browser the Internet has ever seen:

          http://offbyone.com/offbyone/

          Far from perfect (it doesn't understand HTML4, never mind 5) it does the job on a remarkable number of sites such as The Git frequents. YMMV.

  18. FozzyBear Silver badge
    Pirate

    Windows will make your PC purr ( from the Piccy in the article)

    Really, My mate has a cat. It basically lays in the corner and does Sweet F.A. When it does decide to do something it craps all over the place then paws kitty litter everywhere. to top it off at random times it will lovingly leave a dead animal in a hidden corner of the house stinking up the place

    hmmmm. Come to think of it Nice analogy Microsoft

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Windows will make your PC purr ( from the Piccy in the article)

      That's nothing; I used to have a Siamese cat we called Pol Cat because he was a very left-wing cat. Then he became a middle-of-the-road cat which of course meant he became a very flat cat when he was run over by the milkman.

    2. Kiwi Silver badge

      Re: Windows will make your PC purr ( from the Piccy in the article) @ FozzyBear

      If only we could upvote twice..

      (Sent from a true cat lover)

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Blue screen of death

    I recently updated the Win 7 OS on a notebook. It began frequent BSODs which I fixed by going back to the last restore point. Unfortunately, by the time I got the control panel up it had updated the “fix” again. I got it after a couple of tries, but one change got past my selection of no updates and restarted the BSODs after a week.

    Has anyone seen this sort of issue and is it related to incentivizing Win 10?

  20. J J Carter Silver badge
    Trollface

    Hitler would use Windows 10

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Hitler would use Windows 10"

      Yes, but only on those he hated.

  21. J J Carter Silver badge
    Facepalm

    The fiends!

    MSFT kills a puppy every time someone rolls-back from Windows 10

    1. chrishansenhome
      Thumb Down

      Re: The fiends!

      I've killed three puppies so far, then. Every time I try to use Windows 10, my machine freezes after a short but indefinable period of time. I did buy and install a new graphics card, as I wanted one anyway and thought that the screen freeze might be due to graphics driver problems, but no dice.

      The first time I tried Windows 10, I got in touch with their support department in the (vain) hope that they might help. The gentleman I spoke to, after my explaining the problem, said that he was only qualified to help with installation problems, and I needed to talk to their technical desk. He transferred me, and I waited on the phone for half an hour before I was disconnected. I do not have the heart to try again, and online searches for similar problems haven't yielded much fruit.

      I'm staying with Windows 7.

  22. Esme

    Gazumped!

    Hey, that's my neighbours cat, Linux, in that picture! Hard worker, does a good job, has never asked for a penny, lives on the kindness of people he's helped. Sure, has had the odd accident and missed the kitty litter now and then, but hey, no-one's perfect.

    What's he doing in a Windows ad?!

  23. Sceptic Tank
    Megaphone

    "Windows 10 already appears as a free "optional" update for some Windows 7 and 8.1 systems, and soon this will be widened to all machines running a genuine copy of Win 7 and 8.1."

    Talk about punishment for the innocent. You think you do the right thing by purchasing a license but first they make you, the valued customer, jump through hoops by activating your legal copy of Windows (make <u>you</u> look like a crim) and now they come and force feed this W10 thing down one's orifices.

    I'm limited to 3GB data per month after which I start paying "out of bundle rates". I don't live in the States where bandwidth is free and plentiful. Now MS wants to automatically load this and an endless stream of updates to my PC? Any chance of me using MY bandwidth for anything else still?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I know a lot of people with a 1GB monthly limit and quite high over-use charges.

      This "freebie" will hurt!

    2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      But... where are the lawyers?

      on the RH side of the pond?

      Why no lawsuits trying to stop MS from loading malware onto our, repeat OUR hardware?

      Are there any members of the legal professions reading this forum? Come on, we'd really like to know your opinion if this blackmail that MS is subjecting us to.

      Perhaps MS should be declared a 'Scammer'? After all they supposedly have thousands of support people in India just itching to get their mits on the contents of your PC. Aren't MS acting as an agent for this crime?

      Yes I know it is early on a Friday Morning here in Blighty but I spent a good part of yesterday removing all trace of that POS called Windows 10 from a friends PC.

      No more.

      She's getting a Mac Mini (from fleabay) and will run OSX from next weekend. I could install Linux but she's not really computer savvy enough (and aged 75) to use it.

      sorry SatNad you and your team of goons in Redmond have been smoking/drinking too much of the wrong stuff. As is evidenced by the comments in this (and many other threads) we, the IT Literate do not want your shite foisted upon us. We don't want your tracking. We don't want your forced updates.

      In short

      We are giving you the Finger big time.

      However it is clear that MS don't give a toss about us. They really must have inked a sweet deal with the NSA to supply them with all our data.

      Rant over. If there was a 'giving a Finger icon' then it would be used here.

      Time for a Bacon Sarnie. Organically produced, Dry Cured Bacon I might add.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: But... where are the lawyers?

        I put Zorin Linux on a neighbours computer a couple years ago and it has worked wonderfully for him and he's not a computer guy.

        http://zorinos.com/

    3. Ian Emery Silver badge
      FAIL

      I dont think interntt bandwidth is "free and plentiful" in the US, I think you will find it is far more restrictive (and expensive) than the UK for most of the country.

      I guess you use a mobile connection, or run an older BT account; I almost feel sorry for BT customers with tiny, limited GB allowances, but then it is their own fault for being stupid enough to use BT as their ISP.

      (Even Infinity Fibre Broadband is limited if you arent careful about which service you sign up for - the small print on the TV adverts say 2GB for ADSL and 40GB for Fibre for the headline price advertised).

      1. Stoneshop Silver badge
        FAIL

        I guess you use a mobile connection, or run an older BT account;

        The nick "Sceptic Tank" suggests some antipodean connection, so it won't be a BT account ...

  24. JP 6

    I hope this works

    I don't want Win10, so I have done this:

    Type "updates" in the search box

    Click on Windows Update

    Click on Change settings with the window appears

    From the pull down menue select:

    Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them.

    click OK

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: I hope this works

      Didn't work for me. They still pushed the ~3GB of update files onto my computers. Once before trying what you've done, then again after, so I received them twice on four machines. The two remaining w10 machines have all updating turned off. The two machines now running Cinnamon Mint would appear to be completely invulnerable :-)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I hope this works

      Good advice as a start, but I'm afraid merely unticking boxes will not protect you from them. You have to actively uninstall a number of previous updates and hide them when they re-appear in order to be safe from the malicious downloads.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I hope this works

        You have to actively uninstall a number of previous updates and hide them when they re-appear in order to be safe from the malicious downloads.

        Do they give up if you install W10, and then use the 30 day window to revert to your previous system? Logically they'd give up at that point.....but then, I suppose that won't apply with a company that only cares about itself.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Ledswinger - Re: I hope this works

          Do they give up if you install W10, and then use the 30 day window to revert to your previous system?

          I don't know the answer to that one : I haven't risked either upgrade or downgrade for this PoS. I would expect updates to continue as planned regardless of the fact that someone had reverted : Microsoft don't take the hint when people actively uninstall and hide the GWX updates, so I wouldn't expect them to take the hint in this case either.

        2. What_Does_Not_Kill_You_Makes_You_Stronger

          Re: I hope this works

          Installing W10 and reversing out before the 30 days does not protect you from this crap.

          The whole thing starts again and MS may have tweaked your 'old' OS to make the automatic install happen next time.

          (That is what happened to my sisters AIO when I recovered back to the original win8 after the W10 update was installed by accident.)

          The only working method is to deinstall all the updates that place the GWX.exe progs on your machine then to stop all automatic updates and you then need to manually check all updates that are discovered in your list of new available updates on the web (via Google or whatever)

          MS is actively trying to get users to install W10 via every means possible.

          Most normal users would not be able to recover back to their original config before the 30 days is up and then the 'old' config (backed up config) is deleted from your machine.

          W10 is bad for your personal security and if you have limited bandwidth or Traffic limits available on your internet connection, it will burn it up for you with its constant updates.

          It is the biggest beta test program ever where you are givinig all your usage data to MS while they try out every 'good' idea on a captive audience who have agreed to all the pain via the open-ended EULA.

          Even OSX and Apples total control looks good compared to this.

          MS you have lost the plot and are making the biggest mistake possible.

          Is any enterprise customer going to accept W10 as a viable OS for their employees as it looks now?

          1. YetAnotherLocksmith

            Re: I hope this works

            I'm not even sure anyone could accept it for enterprise. After all, what are they accepting? It changes itself daily, and seems to send literally every keypress (including passwords and secret keys?) out over the network to MS!

            Even if it works (which seems to be a gamble from the reading here) it doesn't seem wise.

            Are they going to push it on XP users? Asking for a friend.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: I hope this works

              As I understand, the offer is for Windows 7 and later, so Windows Vista, XP, 2000, ME and earlier users are left alone.

            2. brainout

              Re: I hope this works

              They are not pushing it on XP users, YetAnotherLocksmith. So that's one more reason to stay on XP. If I'm paranoid about exposure online, I just plug in one of my external Linux drives and surf: instructions here, I own the forum so you won't be tracked, I need anonymity too: http://brainout.net/frankforum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6 .

              You can buy the sticks in Amazon by Prizix, too. I have tried to contact that company to urge them to make customizable installations rather than installer sticks, but I never hear back from them. Even so, you can pick whatever distro you want, and just follow the instructions in that link. Yell at me if I'm unclear.

              I love XP. Don't have to give it up. I sorta love Win7. Don't have to give it up. I hate the hitlerian aka.ms/msa which is core to all MSFT is doing in Win8 through 10, go read its Paragraph 3b and then 3a to see why it can justify slurping all your PRIVATE OFFLINE DATA, which no one in the industry ever has claimed to do before.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Still nothing here...

    Of the about 6 PC's currently active running Windoze, the two main ones

    1. Win 7 : mine, Pro Retail

    2. Win 7: SWMBO, Pro Retail

    display tifferent behaviour.

    HERS has had the 'invitation' to update to 10 since they started rolling out the invites, and now the download is parked preemptively on het box (need to do something about that...weekend work again)

    MINE, however, running an identical Retail pPro version of 7, has never displayed the invite, doesn't have the silly directory monitoring your update status and nagging about it, hence does not display the update icon, and is generally update virus free.

    Both machines have the same antivirus, the same update settings, and the same reg cleaning (ahem) software;

    I don't know how this is and I'm trying to replicate it, but have been unsuccesful so far.

  26. short

    Is it a registry setting that says 'tried it, rolled back, stop bothering me'? If so, any idea what?

    However, it's started to sound like many of the noxious parts of Win10 other than the skin are getting rolled into 7 and 8. Mere holding out may not be enough.

    No means no, Microsoft. I'm not playing hard to get, I want you to leave me alone, you creep.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wouldn't call Microsoft 'Evil'

    Bandying terms like that about is just not specific enough for proper discussion. I prefer to deal with behaviour rather than motivation or personality. Why they do what they do isn't half as important as what they do.

    Microsoft have had plenty of time to see the consequences for many innocent people of their push to upgrade machines to 10. If their plan is now to tighten the screw on the holdouts and abuse people's trust in automatic updates, then I must conclude that 'reckless' and 'negligent' no longer apply to their behaviour.

    It is clear that Microsoft have now set out on a path which is malicious. and Windows Update will prove to be a serious threat to hundreds of millions of existing PCs.

    People who talk about security so love the simplicity of talking about Confidentiality, Integrity and Availability. I submit that Microsoft, and specifically Windows Update, are the greatest threat to all three for the hundreds of millions of contented Windows 7 users out there.

    But the silence from anyone who ought to care is absolutely deafening.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    If you're running Windows...

    ...then you've already been shafted. All Microsoft is doing now is pushing deeper from all directions to make you watertight. The money shot will come later, except it'll be your personal assets that are splashed out on the world's awaiting chest.

    Paris, because...

  29. GregC
    Stop

    Dear Microsoft,

    Fuck off. Then Die.

    Why can't you understand that No means No? I've gone to considerable lengths to stop your upgrade spyware installing on my system, and I will continue to do so. I used to think that having Windows Update set to notify only was a bit paranoid. Now it's the only sensible option.

  30. hatti

    Translation

    FOR...

    Windows 10 is the best Windows ever – familiar, safer, faster, and full of innovations

    ...READ

    same shit, different icons

    1. Teiwaz Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Translation

      Maybe...However...

      A lot of 'a certain type of user'* are disappointed when a new release of an OS comes out and the icons are the same as last release.

      It often doesn't seem to matter how many under the hood changes have been included, to this 'certain type of user'* it must be the 'same old' and 'boring' if it does not have a new iconset.

      Examples can probably be seen of this if you stop by any random forum discussing the recently released Ubuntu Wiley Werewolf.

      (* 'certain type of user' can be found using many different OSs)

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just do the flipping update

    All the linuxians and MacTards would be screaming with apoplectic self-righteous anger at anyone who refused to immediately install the latest update of their chosen OS; iOS in particular is a swine for constant reminders and nagging.

    Newsflash - their releases have not always been 100% perfect either!

    Microsoft adopt the same approach and everyone acts like the sky is falling.

    1. elaar

      Re: Just do the flipping update

      It may be classed as an "update" by MS, but it's really an entirely new OS.

      Linux folk may run updates, but don't always update to the latest release, and remain on LTS versions.

    2. psychonaut

      Re: Just do the flipping update

      you clearly dont work for small businesses.

      1. CAPS LOCK Silver badge

        Re: Just do the flipping update

        >you clearly dont work for small businesses.

        No he doesn't, he works for Microsoft.

    3. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Re: Just do the flipping update

      They still do....

      Plenty of users have been criticising the rather more 'raw' state of Plasma 5 compared to Plasma 4 in the recent Kubuntu release, Nothing wrong with that so much on a non-stable or non-LTS release.

      Difference is they chose to upgrade to the new release, despite it not be suitable for their usage, and if the software sources had been set to LTS only they would not have been asked if they wished to upgrade until the next LTS.

      I have not come across a Linux distro yet, that 'proactively' fetched the upgrade repeatedly without prompting and then proceed to harangue the user until they either gave in or accidentally clicked the wrong button.

      1. Vic

        Re: Just do the flipping update

        I have not come across a Linux distro yet, that 'proactively' fetched the upgrade

        yum-updatesd will do the proactive fetch - but you have to set do_download and possibly do_download_deps to True to do so (which is not the default. And I had to look it up). There's also a do_update flag to apply the updates automagically - again, you have to set this explicitly.

        The rest of it, though - no. No means no.

        Vic.

    4. Chemist

      Re: Just do the flipping update

      "All the linuxians"

      You clearly don't know much about Linux - I'm a long-term user (20+years) and I install/update/upgrade when I want

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just do the flipping update

      The difference with a Linux or OSX system is that is doesn't download gigabytes of installation packages on the off-chance they might nag you into submission.

      OSX might nag you (does it? I don't know) but it doesn't download an entire OS installer 'just in case'. Certainly doesn't happen on Linux distros (not the ones I've used anyway)

    6. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: Just do the flipping update

      On OS X you don't go into the App Store and find it yourself, it eventually displays a notification which can be dismissed with a click. The same approach indeed.

    7. James O'Shea Silver badge

      Re: Just do the flipping update

      Err... I have, sitting next to me, Mac systems still running 10.8. And some running 10.6. The current Apple OS is 10.11. Apple does NOT force you to upgrade the OS. They will notify you that there's an upgrade. They will ask that you go to the Mac App Store app to get it. If you ignore their notification, that's nice. They'll put a little red badge on the App Store icon in the Dock. You can banish the App Store icon from the Dock. You can go to the App Store and hide the notification badge for that particular update. You can simply ignore the badge.

      iOS is somewhat more problematical. Depending on the circumstances, you might get a download of the new system... but you don't have to install it. Indeed, you can banish it from your system and never install it. Ever. Certain iPhone users around here are still on iOS 7.x. The current version is 9.1.

    8. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: Just do the flipping update

      Even on a rolling release distro, the distro package manger ASKS permission to install updates and provides a completely list of the modifications. The updates can be delayed by the user until the user is ready to install. Also, note the updates rarely require a reboot.

  32. psychonaut

    a looming disaster

    I've rebuilt around a dozen machines from borked 10 upgrades in the last month or so.

    I've also seen it:

    1) remove security (trend wfbs)

    2) fuck up file share permissions

    This is going to be a fucking disaster for customers. what if the shitty old sage version or (insert legacy program of your choice here) or shitty old pc they have doesn’t work on 10?

    i look after lots of businesses who dont have the need of a server but still have lots of machines.

    The only way to prevent it will be to turn off auto updates, which is also bad news. Hopefully there will be some movement on this from MS before it happens, but if they don’t, then it will be tricky. I suppose you could disable auto installation of updates but allow to download, wait for the 10 upgrade to appear as a recommended update and hide it. But you’d have to do it on every single machine you look after. maybe this wont even work.

    Plus, it will still download 3 to 4 gb of win 10 update per machine. Thatll be nice on one of my customers connections – a shitty 3g with 12 machines behind it.

    If that doesn’t work then the only solution is to turn off updates for ever.

    ideas to help mitigate this please

    also - does anyone have experience of what this might do to an xp virtual machine running on the 7 pro built in xp mode? i have several customers who use this because they have to use ie6 to connect to a particular website. will the vm be "carried over" to the 10 install?

    1. ksb1972

      Re: a looming disaster

      I tried hiding the Windows 10 update. It was only effective temporarily. After a reboot, it had unhidden itself.

      Windows 10 is still an ugly mess. Shrinking the Windows 8 start screen down to give "the start menu back" doesn't hide the fact that half the OS is in Metro land (with all it's shortcut unfriendly mouse/touch only elements) and half are still under the traditional Windows UI.

      And that's before we even get to the bugs still hanging around since Win8. I've lost count of the number of times I see a Win 8/10 machine bogged down for no good reason that only a reboot clears.

      And no one's mentioned how many times oem's have had to make updated drivers available in the last 6 years. I count 5. Win7, Win8, Win8.1, Win8.1 Update & now Win10. Add on 32 & 64 bit variants and it's little wonder so many machines have so many devices that don't work post "upgrade" to Win10. Or worse - crash with Blue Screens.

    2. ksb1972

      Re: a looming disaster

      Oh, there are all sorts of basic settings that don't carry over post upgrade.

      I normally move Public folders off the SSD OS drive to a mechanical drive. Post "upgrade" to Win10, they're back on C:

    3. regadpellagru

      Re: a looming disaster

      "If that doesn’t work then the only solution is to turn off updates for ever.

      ideas to help mitigate this please"

      No more ideas. Turning off updates forever seems to be the solution to MS malware, really ...

      1. Kiwi Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: a looming disaster

        "If that doesn’t work then the only solution is to turn off updates for ever. ideas to help mitigate this please"

        No more ideas. Turning off updates forever seems to be the solution to MS malware, really ...

        Well, there is this one idea.... :) >>>>>>>

    4. Andy A

      Re: a looming disaster

      No, the XP Mode VM is only available on Win7. Not even on Win8. A shame, as I liked the way it was integrated into the Start menu. When I first saw that, I was sure that MS had bought the product in, as I was doubtful that they could have done it so well.

      If you do get lumbered with supporting XP forever, you'll have to look at another solution, like the free VMware Player. You'd probably need to rebuild your XP contents from scratch.

      The good news is that MS still allow you to Activate Win XP. Did one last week. Keep a copy of that sticker!

      Of course, that XP VM need not necessarily reside on a Windows box.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: a looming disaster

        > The good news is that MS still allow you to Activate Win XP. Did one last week. Keep a copy of that sticker!

        Won't work for me. My XP licence was the a corporate license number, and they apparently got MS to expire the licence number early (it suddenly came up as an invalid MSWin licence immediately on Jan 1, 2014) in order to force everyone at the company to move to MSW7. At least that company didn't revert everyone back to their "half an OS"....

        1. psychonaut

          Re: a looming disaster

          go to any IT recycler. they will have plenty of, err, side panels, available. they may come with a sticker on them

    5. What_Does_Not_Kill_You_Makes_You_Stronger

      Re: a looming disaster

      Question:

      'also - does anyone have experience of what this might do to an xp virtual machine running on the 7 pro built in xp mode? i have several customers who use this because they have to use ie6 to connect to a particular website. will the vm be "carried over" to the 10 install?'

      Answer:

      @ psychonaut

      The XP VM will not be carried over.

      The feature is part of Windows 7 and does not exist on W10!!

      These machines and their VM's need to be protected and of the highest priority need to be backed up so you can restore a working Win7/XP-vm setup quickly in case W10 is accidentally installed/upgraded to these machines.

    6. brainout

      Re: a looming disaster

      Thank you, psychonaut. As one of your potentialo customers in paradigm, here's a solution I'm using for my 19 Windows machines:

      Linux online, Windows offline.

      As the provider, you can adopt this idea by creating customized Linux external drive installations and then tell your clients to plug them in whenever going online.

      I used Mint 17.1 (.2 is buggy), PCLinuxOS, Fedora 22, as the latest three; these I installed on 60 GB old external drives and some sticks (Kingston 3.0 being much faster, sizes from 32 GB to 128GB). These installations I customized and then plugged them into each of my machines, booted, which saved the settings for cards and peripherals, one machine after the next. So now, when I plug in, booting is much faster, as the 'library' of the different machine settings, is stored somewhere in the Linux bootloader (which I think is named 'grub' or whatever).

      Then I just use Firefox and Thunderbird as usual, since those programs are already configured in my Windows machines. So now I can take all my Win7 machines off Windows update, and my XP machines are already EOL and off it. So now all those machines have new life.

      So now for you the computer service provider, this makes for a happier relationship at your end, more money, and happiness at your clients' end. At least, I hope so.

      If everyone had just one customized Linux stick to plug in when surfing, all this MSFT bullying would be bypassed, and MAYBE then MSFT will wake up and smell the coffee.

      Thank you for your time.

  33. brainout

    LIARS

    " 'We understand you care deeply about what happens with your device,' Terry Myerson, Microsoft's Windows supremo, wrote"

    Bollocks. MSFT understands nothing, and refuses to listen, as usual. The man hours and money lost trying to defend against the disgusting GWX is enormous. How all that money chould have been saved and spend on helping people, instead of messing up their lives.

    IMMORAL, and all the charities Gates sponsors are UNDONE by this IMMORAL continuance.

    Boycott MSFT, that's the only thing their deaf ears might hear.

    1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

      Re: LIARS

      > IMMORAL, and all the charities Gates sponsors are UNDONE by this IMMORAL continuance.

      Don't think we're too thrilled about some of the "charities" (read: Political Action Committees) that Gates sponsors either.

  34. Medixstiff

    Dear Microidiots.

    I paid for my license of Windows 7 and want to STICK to my Windows 7, how about you STICK your Windows 10 where the sun doesn't shine, if you say it's free for the first 12 MONTHS, then let me install it when I WANT TO INSTALL the bloody thing.

    Now f*ck off and leave my PC alone.

  35. King Jack
    Facepalm

    Tried and tested recipe

    We all have seen this pattern before. A company does something outrageous, then sits back and watches the outcome. Tests to see if users will really revolt and whether it will get sued. If nothing happens, it repeats it with bells on as it knows it will get away with it. Spotify recently did the same thing with t&Cs, then implemented the changes a few weeks later without alteration after the braying died down. Now it's Microrshit's turn. They 'accidentally' attacked Win 7 machines so now they will do so in force.

    Where are the law suits?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tried and tested recipe

      Where are the law suits?

      Unfortunately, they won't appear, will they?

      Anyway, the outrage will die down, but one thing that will remain will be the body of technically-literate (and not-so-literate) people who have permanently shifted from being long-term Windows users to users of something else.

      The question then is - How many?

      Me for one.

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: Tried and tested recipe

        As the family IT department I have put out the word I will not support any W10 installation because I do not want spend my time resetting W10 defaults and otherwise mucking with it. W7 & W8.1 are much more well behaved as are Linux distros and Macs.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @a_yank_lurker - Re: Tried and tested recipe

          Me too. I have also advised on how to keep GWX from doing its thing. But basically anyone who willingly goes to Win10 is on their own.

          Additionally, I have advised that my local network will not be available to any Windows 10 machine and, furthermore, I won't allow one to use my Guest WIFI connection for internet access.

          1. YetAnotherLocksmith

            Re: @a_yank_lurker - Tried and tested recipe

            Good point on the security there - once your IoT toy toaster is connected to your wifi the password can trivially be tweaked out of it. With Win10, the password will be auto-streamed out to waiting servers, no tweaking required.

            How will you block Win10 at the router though?

    2. regadpellagru

      Re: Tried and tested recipe

      "Where are the law suits?"

      There's no way you or me will see them. Judges, in whatever country, can't understand a thing about this, therefore, plenty of bollocks tellin them it's allright, while it's clearly not.

      We're fighting a lost battle, here.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @regadpellagru - Re: Tried and tested recipe

        We're fighting a lost battle, here.

        Yes, if all we do is attack Microsoft or try to stir up legal action which we should know is not going to happen. If that's the battle, then it is lost. You can see that on the Insider and Windows 10 forums - they're pretty much a playground for the fanatics now as people have given up trying to make Microsoft listen.

        But the real battle is only lost when a sizable proportion of the existing Windows 7 installation base has gone over to Windows 10 or been damaged by failed updates/reversions. So the answer is to keep banging on about the issues with a view to enlightening ordinary people, businesses and even government departments about what upgrading to Windows 10 may mean to someone who is currently happy with Windows 7 (ie risky, loss of functionality that may matter, loss of use of software that isn't supported and, biggest of all, loss of privacy and security of their own information).

        It isn't over yet.

  36. D@v3

    Enterprise?

    Any word on if this will apply to enterprise versions as well? If so, that will be a major PITA.

    Also, have they (MS) considered all the old XP machines, that were reasonably happy to have Win7 forced down their slightly RAM widened throats, that are now (due to the cancer that is the winsxs folder) down to their last few Mb of storage.

    1. Grikath Silver badge

      Re: Enterprise?

      as far as I've read the KB docs, enterprise versions are excluded from *most* of the ...."upgrades" , at least the ones that nag and download. YMMV on some of the others, and at least one or two of the we-borked-things KB's that are supposed to Fix Stuff do not specifically mention Enterprise as an exclusion.

      As far as XP is concerned.... unless the company has an extended contract it should get no updates at all.. so why would you have updates running to begin with? just another process hogging up resources on an old machine...

      1. x 7

        Re: Enterprise?

        in the UK most PCs in GP surgerys run - or are being upgraded to - Win7 Professional, not Enterprise and the clinical software really is not compatible with Win10 - let alone consideration of the training issues involved, and the security aspects involved

        Some surgeries are on central domains where the updates are locked down - but a heck of a lot of practices, especially rural ones, aren't. This decision by Microsoft is going to cause a lot of problems for them

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: Enterprise?

          Well it is going to hit many businesses (particularly smaller businesses) who have deployed WS2012 and RDS, but retained full blown Windows 7/8 desktops (rather than use thin-clients running either Linux or Win7 embedded) running whatever edition of Windows was pre-installed...

        2. Kiwi Silver badge

          Re: Enterprise? @ x 7

          This decision by Microsoft is going to cause a lot of problems for them

          The one that should be the end of MS due to an insurmountable shitload of sueballs is where W10 automatically sends ramdumps to MS :...including any documents you may currently be working on...", and with no way to stop it from what I am aware of (short of physically removing any internet access).

          These are doctors surgeries. They may not deal with sensitive commercial data where a few billion of profit is concerned, but they do deal with sensitive data - and in this case data that the dicslouse of could have a serious impact on someone's life.

          I know it's not money, so MS may not care... But it is marketing - MS is getting a bad name, and "any publicity is good publicity" only really works so far. When the whole world hates you, you're gonna die alone and miserable (or mentally retarded...hmm...)

          Any IT people who deal with medical sites of any sort need to be planning ways to a) prevent W7 and later from accessing the internet (should be done anyway but given some of the nice things about 10 like bypassing hosts files, bypassing DNS, sharing network passwords etc you may need to seriously re-think your network security). Looking at any of a number of Linux or other *nix flavours would be a good idea (preferably none with windux10 aka "SystemD" which may yet be as bad as W10).. And making sure your network firewalls lock out everything you DON'T fully know of including any MS sites (whitelist rather than blacklist)

          If your client deals with sensitive data, warn them not to let W7 or later machines get near the internet without going over the top on preventative security. Imagine how you would feel seeing your client's name listed in the local rag for sending sensitive medical records to MS and their unnamed "partners".

      2. D@v3

        Re: XP

        We no longer have any XP machines, they have all been upgraded to win7, and with a little bit of extra RAM, have been mostly quite happy. Many of them now are down to their last few Mb's of storage because of the 20gb+ winsxs folder (only 40gb disk to start), that no one on the internet seems to be able to agree on what to do with it.

        Some say, "yeah its a waste of space, delete it" (have tried, can't) Others say, for the love of god, leave it alone it is essential system files.

        Good news about the lack of forced Enterprise update though

        1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          Re: XP

          If you had unlimited disc space then I think you will find that Win10 has a smaller disc footprint than a mature Win7 system, presumably because it doesn't have half a decade of updates lovingly preserved in the WinSxS folder. (My experience on such a system this week was that I reclaimed 10GB of space once I'd done a post-10 disc clean up.) However, if that folder is the reason that your hard drive is 98% full, you can't easily do the upgrade.

          You might be able to do something creative with a USB stick and mount points, but that's a bit beyond the average user. In a perfect world, the update process would do exactly that if it saw unused disc space on a second drive, but I'd be shocked if MS have actually done that. I'd be fairly surprised if they even bother to check available disc space before performing irreversible changes on your disc.

          1. Grikath Silver badge

            Re: XP @ Ken Hagan

            :"I'd be fairly surprised if they even bother to check available disc space before performing irreversible changes on your disc."

            They don't. I noticed when I *thought* I had caught-and-reversed all the offending KB's, and suddenly my PC started stuttering with virtual memory and cache problems. ( I'm running a 35Gb no-more-than-necessary primary for win7+ essentials). Turned out I missed one and it happily parked 5 gigs in a full d/l and two corrupted/aborted partials on my disk, ignoring all my "dowloads go here where I can see them" settings.

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    EULAs and T&Cs

    Ok, so they push this onto some poor unsuspecting user who then gets presented with a new EULA/T&C which he then declines. Is his PC then bricked?

    If so, then it won't be long before the lawsuits starts hitting them.

  38. GrumpenKraut Silver badge

    "full of innovations"

    As in "your are full of it"?

  39. Novex

    Too Late...

    ...already moving away to Mint. We've told you you are wrong, Microsoft, it just appears you've decided to play deaf with your customers. Consequently, we're leaving and using other software.

    In the meantime, Windows Update on Windows 7 had already been disabled from downloading anything, and now I don't install any update that I don't have any full information for what it is. What a way to fuck up a good operating system.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Had one laptop bought to me...

    Friend got this laptop for her elderly father. Came with Win 8, he didn't like it, but got on well with 7.

    She bought a copy of 7, and with some pokery, we got it working on the machine.

    It came back recently - 'the wireless doesn't work any more'. Being diligent, and always installing updates as he'd been told, her dad unwittingly upgraded himself to Win 10. Only Win 10's clever installer had failed to install drivers for LAN or WLAN, rendering the lappy useless until I found W10 drivers for these chips. Rendering her £70 Win 7 OEM purchase pointless. We're not rolling back because of fear of confusing her father further.

    Offering the upgrade is fine - but it should be just that, an offer. A one-shot affair, something you accept automatically then or by manual intervention later. Dressing it up as an 'update' is a little bit of an egregious language play that will only serve to confuse users we've spent 15 years trying to educate re: importance of staying patched.

    But none of this will affect MS - simply because as ever, folk think their choice is 'PC or Apple' and of course PC = MS.

    I've moved a few people over to *buntu distros I think are suitable for them, and thus far it's gone tremendously and I will continue to do so.

    I don't think Win 10 itself is as bad as some rhetoric makes out. I don't like having to opt-out of privacy stuff, but after some tweaks I don't mind it - but I think lots of people will (and do) mind how it's being aggressively pushed.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Some recommended reading for those in charge at Microsoft:

    How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie

    Because at the moment they have bugger all friends and the only influence they are doing is increasing Linux adoption.

    Microsoft like to point out that you don't own their software but instead it's a licence, so why the fuck do they think they own your hardware ?

  42. dogged

    I like the way "growing public outcry" now means "the Register complaining".

    1. W.O.Frobozz

      How's the taste of that astroturf this morning?

      1. dogged

        you tell me, friend.

  43. steamnut

    Desperation

    It's a proven fact that all empires peak and then decline. Only Apple seems to have bucked this trend but even they need to invent the ishitter soon or they will start to flatline. Microsoft wants you direct debits and fast. They have no moral compass and just want your money.

  44. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    GWX Control Panel

    Still protecting me from the hooded claw, and keeping the vampires from my door PC.

    Get it here

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: GWX Control Panel

      Belt and braces!

      If you have had GWS installed, look in IE's history and you will see that it accesses this URL on an almost daily basis.

      https://wscont.apps.microsoft.com/winstore/OSUpgradeNotification/gwx/prod/Prodnnnnnnnnnnnn-nnnnnnnn.html?trgr=param

      Where the text in italics is system and date dependent.

      I'd recommend blocking this website as it would seem that GWS's actions are being driven from the responses it gets.

  45. herman Silver badge

    All this Win10 nonsense must be doing wonders for Apple's bottom line.

  46. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. billat29

      Re: Software As A Service

      No.

      That's just FUD.

      It looks like they have finally realised that no one wants to pay for big new versions of Windows (or Office for that matter) so the plan is to get everyone on the same base (stuff Win10 down everyone's throats) and then monetise extra functionality through a subscription to the cloud.

      In order to do so, they need to make sure that any new code that might be needed to enable new "cloud" functionality is delivered seamlessly to everyone's machine. That means compulsory windows updates.

      So, office, gaming, media, access to data or device sync will be delivered as part of a Microsoft subscription and that is where they intend to make their money not through Windows which becomes an enabler.

      The hard part is getting everyone to open their wallets for the first time, but once we are all used to paying MS monthly, then another couple of quid for more data storage or a new productivity tool will come easy.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @billat29 - Re: Software As A Service

        So in essence Win 10 is like Android - a free enabler which encourages people to consume and pay for the privilege.

        Makes sense. My only concern is that if you strip out the store stuff and hack it to get rid of the spying, you end up with what is probably a very useful desktop OS with no means for Microsoft to make money off you. I can't see them being too happy with that.

        I wonder if eventually Windows 10 will remain free, but only enabled if there is a store subscription - so hacked down versions will no longer work.

        1. Vic

          Re: @billat29 - Software As A Service

          So in essence Win 10 is like Android - a free enabler

          Currently free. For the first year - after that, they'll be charging.

          Vic.

  47. Shufflemoomin

    Idiots

    Fantastic. Every time I remote session into my elderly father's Windows 7 machine to fix something, he asks me about that Windows 10 upgrade icon in the taskbar. I keep telling him to ignore it. If he upgrades that machine and something goes wrong, I can't remote into it and I have no way of physically getting to that machine. Now I have to worry about the day that Microsoft decides that it knows better than me and is going to shove that OS on there anyway. I dread that phonecall more than anything. Even if, and it's a BIG if, the install goes smoothly and everything works afterwards, I have to face months of confused phone calls because everything he's learned over the years has changed and shit has moved around. I can't wait. Thanks Microsoft. Have a bag of dicks for Christmas.

    1. W.O.Frobozz

      Re: Idiots

      Hey same situation here. I remotely administer my mother's laptop and that god damned icon keeps popping up. At some point they're going to force the update aren't they? And then totally fuck things up.

      My wife's Windows 7 laptop just received a huge update...I can only assume it's Microshit's spyware bundle. It totally fucked up the laptop.

      She turned to me last night and said "I want Linux on this laptop when you get a chance."

      1. psychonaut

        Re: Idiots

        paste the below into notepad, save is "fuckoffwin10nag.reg" then merge it. no more nag screen. you ll need to be an admin, or run regedit as admin then import it. you may have to rename it in cmd dependant on how you see files on win 7 (hidden extentions etc) as notepad will want to save it as uckoffwin10nag.reg.txt just get rid of the .txt bit. run cmd, cd to directory where it is , then

        ren fuckoffwin10nag.reg.txt fuckoffwin10nag.reg

        Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

        ; Created by: Shawn Brink

        ; http://www.tenforums.com

        ; Tutorial: http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/6596-get-windows-10-icon-remove-taskbar-windows-7-8-1-a.html

        [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]

        "DisableGwx"=dword:00000001

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: Idiots

          That was a few months back but there's way more than that needed now. Try GWX Control Panel which automates it.

          1. psychonaut

            Re: Idiots

            oh shit really? fuck. fuck fuck fuck. i dont have remote management, only remote support with TV. thats about 700 machines i have to patch.

            aaaarrrgh.............

            1. Dan 55 Silver badge

              Re: Idiots

              There are three more reg keys here, also lists of KBs to uninstall, but if a computer gets into a state where it starts downloading Windows 10 you'll need GWX Control Panel to stop it...

              http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/5/2015/10/15/pushy_windows_10/#c_2665902

          2. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Idiots

            GWX Control Panel is your friend

            See previous comment: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/containing/2681725 for link to website.

      2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: Idiots

        > My wife's Windows 7 laptop just received a huge update...I can only assume it's Microshit's spyware bundle. It totally fucked up the laptop. She turned to me last night and said "I want Linux on this laptop when you get a chance."

        All our machines, including my wife's, were running Linux. Then she got into fecking World of Warcraft. Now she has a MSW8 machine for her fecking gaming, and she says "you're not allowed to touch this one".. Hey, fine by me.

        1. Kiwi Silver badge

          Re: Idiots

          and she says "you're not allowed to touch this one"..

          Your wife, your life but... I suggest when it all goes to shite and she finds WOW doesn't work on 10 (or 10 does wonderful things like randomly dropping out the network hardware as we're seeing with some customers) you simply remind her that you were not allowed to touch it, and you're just following her wishes.

          Fix it at a huge price to.. Should be good for some interesting nights ;)

    2. King Jack

      Re: Idiots

      Just disable Windows update service and clean the crap from the system. There are scripts which will do all the heavy lifting for you. https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows You know M$ is going to infest the machine so act first and stop them.

    3. The Travelling Dangleberries

      Re: Idiots

      It is probably going to be worth my while to take the long day to get to where my father lives (3 hour train, 2.5 hour flight, hour by hire car) and another long day back, just to spend a couple of days setting up Linux Mint on his W8.1 laptop before he accidently upgrades it to W10.

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ... but what about the T&C ?

    "After any upgrade, you can easily go back to your prior version of Windows within 31 days if you choose."

    But that is after you had to agree on the W10 T&C's.

    I fear that is what this is all about : robbing you of the last W-os that you paid only once for.

    1. psychonaut

      Re: ... but what about the T&C ?

      thats shit as well. ive not seen a win 10 borked upgrade successfully return to 7. and why would you want to anyway, its already been fucked, once fucked, always fucked.

      i mean who would ever do an in place upgrade on an OS? youd have to be a cowboy or stupid. even since the days of 2000 its been clean install every time.why the fucking fuckidy fuck are they doing this?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @psychonaut - Re: ... but what about the T&C ?

        why the fucking fuckidy fuck are they doing this?

        Because there is no monetary interest for them in existing machines and OS installations. They would happily see the existing Win7 machines die if they don't update to 10. And so would their partners in crime - the OEMs that they have close dealings with.

        Thoroughly malicious and they're getting away with it.

        1. brainout

          Re: @psychonaut - ... but what about the T&C ?

          DO NOT apply your remarks to the OEMs. The OEMs only make money from selling machines. Win10 is cramping sales of new machines, and you can prove this readily. Go to Lenovo, Dell, HP. I just did that last week, since I made the 'Four Big Lies' series in Youtube (posted as Brain Outy and in September?), to see if what I had posted in video, was still true, that these Big Three are NOT selling Win10.

          It's still true, but with some major changes. Lenovo is no longer using Win10 downgrade rights to keep selling Win7 laptops, as the Win7 machines HAVE SOLD OUT. There was only one left when I searched Lenovo last week.

          The other two, Dell and HP are still using Win8.1 downgrade rights to sell more Win7 machines for their business laptops, and aren't selling ANY in Win10. This, being the end of October, is quite remarkable. Means either they didn't buy many Win10 licenses or the Win8 is so overstocked they are selling those first. As downgrade rights.

          Win10's EULA paragraph 7 allows perpetual downgrade rights, but the windows.old rollback allegedly will only work for 30 days. Frankly, 50/50 chance of it not working at ALL, given the complaints of those who used windows.old to rollback. So best to clone your pre-10 machine using Clonezilla or Macrium Reflect, prior to giving into Win10.

          The point is, the datamining profit is NOT something the OEMs can profit from, nor do their sales practices bear out your claim, so please exclude them from your claim in the future. Thank you for your time.

      2. Kiwi Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: ... but what about the T&C ?

        i mean who would ever do an in place upgrade on an OS?

        Me. Every time I do an OS upgrade.

        I have a ton of stuff installed that I am way too lazy to re-install.

        When it comes to customers, we have things like Office they may no longer have install media or keys for, all sorts of other software they want kept, data inc emails, a hell of a lot of stuff they want working with the new system.

        Most people don't want new or different, they want working, and from time to time improvements but still working.

        So the normal process is 1) backup the drive at least twice (1 or more clones and a copy of the home folders), 2) run the upgrade.

        Most of the time it works beautifully on Linux. Often it works fine on Windows (XP-Vista-7 generally went trouble-free, anything to 8.1 and just about everything > 10 seems to break).

        If it doesn't go, revert to clone and see if you can fix things, try again, or talk with the customer about options..

        besides, clean-installing windows is such a long and painful process. 1st there's the incredibly long waits with an unusable machine while it does the "expanding files" (which it copied a while before - why not expand as it gets them off the disk, saving at least one lot of file handling??), then the 40+ minute "getting things ready" stage, and various other bits inbetween. Then the hunt for drivers as windows is pretty slack in driver support (and gets worse the more MS tells you how good it is), so maybe a few hours trying to find something..

        At least Linux lets you use the machine during the 5-10 minutes installation, and it has good driver support :).

        1. psychonaut

          Re: ... but what about the T&C ?

          @kiwi.

          couldnt disgree more. get disk from machine, put in caddy.

          1) get permissions set and drag c:\users\ folder data off to server

          2) make backup clone of orignal disk on server just in case theyve put something somewhere stupid

          3) get product keys with produkey

          4) 7 minutes to deploy a vanilla syspreped image to the disk.

          5) copy data back to new install on disk

          6) sort drivers

          takes a little longer, but measure twice cut once, so a proper job. the "issues" you refer to are exactly because you do in place upgrades. sorry, but its a cowboy way to do it.

          if customer have lost their keys, thats their problem. 90% of the time i can recover them anyway.

          in place upgrade is asking for trouble, as you have discovered - as haver lots of win 10 customers

          1. Kiwi Silver badge

            Re: ... but what about the T&C ?

            @ psychonaut

            couldnt disgree more. get disk from machine, put in caddy.

            Prefer not to open machines without a damned good reason, especially in the case of some laptops (eg Dell) which require removing the m/b to get the HDD out. If we're doing a fan clean or other work then maybe. Prefer to either clone off to USB HDD or to an image on the network.

            2) make backup clone of orignal disk on server just in case theyve put something somewhere stupid

            Just in case? I'd say nearly 50% of machines either have bad users or bad software that puts stuff elsewhere.

            3) get product keys with produkey

            While I don't recall produkey by name (I've tried a number of those sort of tools), a lot of things don't give up their keys easily.

            And there's a few packages out there that cannot be re-installed, you need to buy a new license (names don't come to mind atm but I think you may find a few MS products and some rather wonderful[spit] accounting packages are like this - upgrade the OS is fine, re-install the software is not allowable and often not do-able)

            takes a little longer, but measure twice cut once, so a proper job. the "issues" you refer to are exactly because you do in place upgrades.

            What, having the job done cleanly and smoothly with little fuss or problems, the customer retaining the machine that is configured how they want it with their photos, emails, icons etc where they left them?

            sorry, but its a cowboy way to do it.

            MS seems to disagree [shudder - am I agreeing with them on something?].. Don't forget that for a while you could only do 8.1 in-place, you could not download an ISO, you could not download it once for several machines, it had to be done for the individual machine.. How could I have done a full clean install of 8.1 on a customers machine when you could not get 8.1 separately? 10 is the same in some cases.

            I am doing the job my customers want. Most of the time it goes through cleanly and the customer's experience is better because it was done in place. Most of the time it works well. Yes, this is me saying this.. Most of the time OS upgrades with Windows go fairly smoothly without major issue.. Yes, I, confirmed passionate MS hater, say this.

            if customer have lost their keys, thats their problem. 90% of the time i can recover them anyway.

            Says the guy who was calling us "cowboys" a paragraph earlier. Sorry, we treat our customers better than that. Yes, can often and easily recover them but not always. And a lot of our customers (the majority, strangely), are not really computer literate and don't necessarily understand the need for keeping such things - they brought the computer/software and own it, right?

            We sometimes have to tell a customer that something is lost, but..

            in place upgrade is asking for trouble, as you have discovered - as haver lots of win 10 customers

            Yup, but that's more the fault of the release of W10 than anything else. It seems to have the worst driver support (today had to tell a customer that he could have W10 or bluetooth, but not both for the time being - his year old HP doesn't get bluetooth W10 drivers and the 8.1 drivers aren't compatible). I've done XP-7 in place upgrades (easy to do if you use a Vista disk ;) ), Vista-7 and 8, 7-8 [should be posting anonymous to admit that!], and lots of Linux ones (sometimes covering several years in one jump) with an over 90% success rate. That is a small sample of only a few hundred machines, but it's enough for me.

            Many of those that failed would not run the new OS anyway. Incompatible or faulty hardware, missing critical drivers.. Some could be fixed with a small hardware change, some couldn't.

            Sometimes they get a completely new (or refurbished) machine with their old stuff in a VM, with as much of it on the new machine as possible.

            But I stand by the end result. The machine is clean (always the 2nd stage after cloning), running properly, and everything is as close to what the customer knows and is used to as can possibly be done with a new OS - sometimes includes things like Classic Shell to help.

            As I said earlier - a lot of our customers are older and/or largely computer illiterate. Many use computers as a basic communication tool and have little other interest in it or desire to use it. They don't want "new", they want familiar. They want what they know. They don't want change, they want their machine to function in a way they know - faster and more stable, but familiar. A changed interface is often a failure on my part.

  49. Joerg

    With Nadella Microsoft turned into a Virus Company...

    Microsoft is now a Company/Corporation that creates viruses/spyware.

    Windows10=8.2 is the worst WindowsNT ever released.

    Microsoft is adding spyware on all its software. It is a shame!

    Microsoft deserves to go bankrupt with this!

    Enough is enough!

    Windows7 was excellent.

    Windows8 and 8.1 were a shame already with the childish unusable Metro/ModernUI nonsense.

    Then Windows10=8.2 is the worst ever.

    1. Mpeler
      Pint

      Re: With Nadella Microsoft turned into a Virus Company...

      Would be kind of funny if some haxor inserted all the win10update crapware into the virus list of windows defender - so each time M$ updated their "to be updated list", defender would wipe it back out.

      I can dream, can't I? :)

      jynnan tonnyx (and/or beer) all round, then...

  50. Stoneshop Silver badge
    FAIL

    Will Work. For Free.

    Wrong image. Cats don't work for free. They demand cat food by holding your couch upholstery ransom, and encourage you to repeat feeding them by occasionally offering a dead critter in return. If you're considered a novice cat-servant you may find this critter dead and prominently visible on the living room carpet; more experienced cat-servants will be considered capable of hunting said critter, still living obviously, through inaccessible nooks and crannies.

    This particular cat looks rather taken aback with what's appearing on its laptop's screen, anyway.

    1. Andus McCoatover
      Windows

      Re: Will Work. For Free.

      Spoken like a person who is owned by a cat. (I'd have written quicker, but she keeps nudging me off the keyboard. After some 'kitty-porn' I guess...)

    2. Vic

      Re: Will Work. For Free.

      more experienced cat-servants will be considered capable of hunting said critter, still living obviously

      AIUI, if they're bringing you live animals, it means they think you're shit at hunting, and need remedial training...

      Vic.

  51. thx1138v2

    Just say no

    At least having to block the automatic upgrade will get people in the habit of saying no to Microsoft and get them thinking about other options. Are you listening MS?

  52. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cat - I get the reference

    Toxoplasma Gondii.

    Crazy cat-lady syndrome, nice explanation of the 10 roll out.

  53. W.O.Frobozz

    Ha Ha

    It amazes me just how much pain Windows users will continue to put up with. Even when they get a pineapple jammed violently into their rectums, they continue making excuses.

    The only thing FUNNIER are the handful of "Steve Barktos" coming here to astroturf for Microsoft. Boy do you guys ever stand out in a crowd. Here's a hint fellas: It's not 1995 anymore and no one is buying Microsoft's bullshit.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ha Ha

      How many times are you going to bat against Windows 10 on this thread?

      In what reality does Windows 10 not support RDA? (That's "remote access" in case it's not on your astroturf script).

      Do you have any idea at all how much data is shared with MS? Here's a clue - significantly less than a Chrome browser session shares with Google. For the whole OS. You'll call that a lie but I tested it. You haven't You're just repeating trash talk from Slashdot.

      Now you may proceed to accuse me of being paid by MS as I stroll off back to my homebuilt PC running TAILS. Have fun.

      1. W.O.Frobozz

        Re: Ha Ha

        Aw I hurt poor Steve Barkto's feelings here. I've hardly "gone to bat" against Windows 10. Just stated it like it is, as have many on this thread. It's a piece of rancid dingo's kidneys and I should know, having to administer a brace of such monstrosities for my full time job.

        Read my lips: Microsoft has done NOTHING to make my job easier with the garbage they've been pumping out since Windows 8.

        And outside of work they've fucking made it a nightmare amongst family and friends who have come to me wondering why the hell their previously working Windows 7 machine has turned to poop. I put a lot of effort into getting my elderly mother's laptop up and running, previously bulletproof, with Windows 7. Along comes Microsoft to forcibly FUCK THAT UP.

        And nevermind that she's on a bandwidth-limited DSL connection. The idea that they can just shove gigabytes of this shit onto people's laptops is screaming "class action lawsuit" as it burns through bandwidth caps.

        Got it? Every bit of my loathing of Windows 8+ comes from real world experience. Slashdot? What the fuck is a Slashdot? As I said before Barkto, get out of the '90's.

        1. Roger Mew

          Re: Ha Ha

          And that is spot on exactly what I have found, however I have just rebuilt a machine and deliberately gone to Vista!

      2. AJ MacLeod

        Re: Ha Ha

        "In what reality does Windows 10 not support RDA? (That's "remote access" in case it's not on your astroturf script)."

        This reality - supporting remote access is a bit pointless when your network connection no longer functions after the Windows 10 up(down)grade. A pretty common occurrence in my experience...

  54. myhandler

    ...and in more news why Microsoft are fuckwits :

    They emailed to say I need to update my credit card on my son's Xbox account.

    Simple?

    No, the form keeps switching to a US entry form - even though it states UK at the top - and it then continually rejects my postcode as invalid. I tried Firefox and then IE - same problem. I left it a few weeks and tried again - same problem.

    I even phoned support (it's impossible to get human help any other way) and the guy in Ireland said " oh yes, that happens sometimes". Could he help or take my details over the phone?

    No, I needed another set of passwords for that and have to log in from the Xbox to verify.

    Windows10 can go to hell.

  55. Bladeforce

    At what point...

    ..do the gullibles sit up and say, you know what? I've had enough of this sh1t and moving away from microsoft for good? That is what is stupid about people today

    1. psychonaut

      Re: At what point...

      tell thjat to the small business that runs excel and sage for instance. they dont have any options. its windows or bust. the absolute pile of shit that is sage cloud or one or whatever they call it is pointless. you still cant run a (normal) business from a linux machine, or a mac with what is already entrenched. i fucking hate sage with a passion (i have to support it - terminal server every time if more than 1 computer required to access it) , but whats the alternative? sure, xero is great, but the accountancy practices ( i look after a few) know and (hate/love) sage. then they have to retrian brenda, the 60 year old whos been doing word and sage and excel for years and who isnt interested in changing or learning, and to fuck about in the unknown world of macs or linux. until there is serious business stuff available for the alternatives, its windows.

      i make my living from my windows and a few mac customers, i hate knocking microsoft, but they are just fucking everything. my mantra is "stay on 7" and if you deviate from that, then it s your problem. but now, what the fuck am i supposed to do? if 10 is going to force its way onto all the machines that i look after unless we disable security (SECURITY UPDATES!! we need therm for fucks sake! updates, its fucked.

      thanks MS, you are a bunch of cunts. you had a diamond in 7 and you have just shoved it right up the cunt of beelzebub, twice. what the fuck are you doing?

      im not opposed to 10 in itself, but i think 7 is still better, it just the way that they install it (in place upgrade, asking for trouble, fucking stupid idea) and the facdt that it removes all sorts of things, particulalry security, file share permissions. its just insane. its ok if you are grandad jo who just looks at emails and doesnt have anything on your machine, but for small businesses this is going to fucking hurt. i will make money out of this no doubt, but right now im struggling to figure out what i can do to keep them on 7.

  56. John P

    I like Windows 10, it has pros and cons versus Windows 7 and 8 but it strikes a decent balance. I've had none of the problems others have experienced, the upgrade and fresh install experiences being much improved over previous Windows versions.

    But the pushiness of MS to get people to upgrade, plus the mess over the telemetry Windows 10 sends back to MS, is a perfect example of Microsoft's talent for grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.

    I've got no problem with them wanting more information on how their OS is used, but just adding a consent dialog with switches for individual pieces in to the setup process would have largely prevented the privacy complaints.

    I've also got no problem with them wanting people to upgrade from previous versions. What company doesn't want to be supporting less versions of their software? The initial GWX taskbar adware was, in my opinion, just about acceptable. It was unintrusive and once you'd clicked on it to satisfy your curiosity, you could take it or leave it.

    But MS are only going to get people's backs up if they continue to be so aggressive and underhanded in their attempts to get systems upgraded to W10.

    If Windows-as-a-Service is going to succeed, customers have to trust that they won't abuse automatic Windows updates. I have always allowed auto updates as they have never caused me any problem, but I can see a lot of people reaching for the off button if this goes on much longer.

  57. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    How can such a successful company with such a successful product lose the thread so utterly and completely?

    It boggles the mind. It's like when a newbie Diplomacy player gets 14 supply centres and stops talking to the others, and will end about as well.

    I'm already trying to source a Linux lappy for my next machine, but amazingly, although there are a shirt-ton of sites, none are selling at the time of writing.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Bah!

      I think perhaps the people with a clue about security and updates left a while ago, in the same way as the people with a clue about user interface design left a long while back. When the people who know go and the bunch of idiots who are left tell outsourced programmers what to code and they follow the instructions to the letter, however stupid they are, what are you left with? Nothing but bollocks.

    2. Kiwi Silver badge

      Re: Bah!

      I'm already trying to source a Linux lappy for my next machine, but amazingly, although there are a shirt-ton of sites, none are selling at the time of writing.

      Try https://www.system76.com for one (I have only visited their site once, a few mins ago. I am not affiliated with them nor promote them nor even know if their product is good (looks good), and only found them on http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/three-awesome-linux-laptops-can-buy-right-now after a quick look).

  58. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why exactly...

    ...has the U.S. Federal trade Commission and other consumer protection agencies NOT filed cease and desist orders with Microsucks to stop the illegal downloading and malware ads for Win10? Those who did not authorized Microsucks to download Win10 files to have been violated and Microsucks is guilty of illegally accessing millions of computer. In addition hiding the Win10 update in a Windoze security update when Win10 is NOT a security update and inserting SPAM to get people to install Win10, is also illegal and constitutes illegal insertion of malware. Why exactly have the authorities NOT prosecuted Microsucks for these outrageous and illegal acts? There is absolutely no doubt in the legal community that these are clear violations of law and they have been reported to the FTC by many. When is the FTC going to perform their obligations under law to stop these egregious behavior?

    1. Mpeler
      Big Brother

      Re: Why exactly...

      One has to wonder:

      1) why they deep-sixed Vista so quickly after 7 appeared (OK, Vista was crap, but that's never stopped them from leaving stuff on the market before...)

      2) why they have completely shut off XP "services"

      3) why they are giving Windows 1 0 away "for free"

      4) why they are SO DESPERATE to elimainate all but Windows 1 0 from the PC/Tablet/Phone space

      5) why they are pushing for the "kill switch" solutions that TPM, AMT, UEFI, Secure Boot, protected-media path, massive amounts of DRM, Micro$oft Store lock-in, updates without documentation, forced, etc., etc.

      Sorry for the tinfoil hat stance, but this not only reeks of desperation on Micro$oft's part, but of enablement of major snooping by TLAs and total control of computing thereof. Granted, all the *Xs are currently somewhat immune to this (except that the motherboard and CPU manufacturers are in bed with M$ and probably the TLAs as well), but this will likely change soon.

      There's a lot of power/money behind this but what, who? M$ are stupid, but I can't believe THAT stupid...

      Side note: I booted up an older (much older) box the other day that runs Win2K, and was astonished at how quickly it came up, to the desktop, and without a load of crapware fighting for CPU cycles. Even though my current machines are each something like 100 to 500 times more powerful, they crawl in comparison, despite having everythng turned off that can possibly be turned off (including wupdate services).

      Hmmm. First there was "Badcaps". Now we have Windoze 10. At least badcaps could be fixed.

  59. Andus McCoatover
    Windows

    NO! It doesn't start faster!!!

    Myst-all-Chucking-Frighty----

    "Boot" doesn't equal "ready to do some work".

    A pretty desktop comes up and the Great Unwashed* - like me - say "Oh, that booted quick!*".

    Look at your disk activity LED. Better still, <ctrl><alt><delete> and open task manager.

    Then wait 20 minutes or so for the disk usage to go below 80%.

    Then, and only then, can you open your e-mails, and go to https://www.gov.uk/ to find out how you'll be sanctioned because you didn't answer/read the e-mail in time...

    (OK, I'm not subject to that nowadays (Or, indeed am I one of His*'* Highness' Subjects ?) but even so....

    * As a member of the Great Unwashed - soap being deemed to be a luxury - 2GB and and old laptop is my all. Sorry that typing is a bit slow....

    '*Alleged pig-porker Prime (Don't get me going!) Minister Cameron.

    1. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: NO! It doesn't start faster!!!

      I upgraded my neighbours old dual core laptop with a SSD. Now it boots to the desktop (with no drive activity light showing) in 12 seconds. Of course it's running Ubuntu 14.04! I deleted Windows XP when the machine was new, it was too insecure for clueless users. My neighbours are just about capable of copy/paste but I've had hardly any support calls from them.

    2. Kiwi Silver badge

      Re: NO! It doesn't start faster!!!

      "Boot" doesn't equal "ready to do some work".

      Ah yes, the old "race to the desktop, crawl to usability" that MS loves so much.

      Had a mate who used to harp on about how quick his XP was compared to Ubu 10.04.. I made the race a little more interesting, from power button being pressed (similar BIOS times thankfully) to finishing downloading a specific web page. Test was run more than once to be sure (he was impressed in the sub 10 seconds shut down for Linux, compared to the time XP took (which is nothing compared to 8!)

      He found that XP+IE really is no machine for Ubuntu and Firefox.

      1. psychonaut

        Re: NO! It doesn't start faster!!!

        my win 7, i5, samsung 850 pro, 8 gb ram pc boots ready to work in 20 seconds. doesnt need to be any faster. i build the same machine albeit with a sub i3 cpu for customers. similar performance.

  60. The_Idiot

    I think...

    ... people may have misunderstood elements of Microsoft's marketing.

    When MS started talking about how Windows 10 was going to be free (for a while at least), but they wanted to migrate to 'Windows as a Service', people got worried that if they updated, they would later have to start paying rent on 'their' installation. They can rest easy. Unfortunately a character was missed from the press release.

    What they actually meant was 'Windows 7 as a Service'.

    For a small fee (say, $1000 a month), MS will promise not to give you any updates on your machine related to Windows 10. That's the 'Service'.

    Yes. I'm kidding. er - I hope...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Alert

      Re: I think...

      Please don't post things like this, Microsoft might think it's a good idea.

  61. Bob Camp

    So just block it already!

    You guys are aware of this utility, right?

    http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html

    I found it pretty quickly by searching the Internet. I'm not the kind of person to type a five-page rant on something that takes 5 minutes to fix. But I guess people have to get upset about something.

    Microsoft is pushing Windows 10 when it isn't that proven yet. I think the aggressive behavior they're doing now would be more appropriate 6-9 months from now. There are too many incompatibilities in hardware and software that still need to be worked out for them to be pushing it like they are today. But early next year, they're going to make the Windows 10 update an automatic recommended update for everybody (except Enterprise users), and since most people have their PCs set to automatically install recommended updates I can imagine more contempt from Microsoft then.

    1. Mpeler
      Mushroom

      Re: So just block it already!

      I don't think their aggresive, unscrupulous behavior is EVER justified.

      Indeed, I think it is anti-competitive and criminal, and should be prosecuted as such.

      Where are the EU and the Consumer Protection Agency and their counterparts the world over?

      Crickets...

      Hmmm. Must be a lot of people in that bed with Micro$oft. Maybe they'll get bedbugs...

  62. matchbx

    Go to hell

    To Microsoft,

    FUCK YOU .

    YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF GREEDY PIECES OF SHIT.

    Sincerely,

    A .NET Developer Since 2002

  63. W. Anderson

    idiotic Microsoft defense in down votes

    It is impossible to understand the mentality of persons voting "down" on comments like that of "InLog" with comment titled "wsusoffline - win" which made it clear that forced Windows 10 upgrade "DID NOT WORK" with his commercial engineering software.

    Others expressed exasperation with Windows 10 serious hardware incompatibility they experienced, yet the idiot Microsoft defenders still chose to vote comments down for no logical or sane reason, other than the comment was not kind to Microsoft, even if fair and factual.

    Such stupidity codifies observation that very many commenters and/or readers on TheRegister forums go to extraordinary lenths to defend, suport and praise Microsoft without any sensible, judicious or "fact backed" reasoning.

    This lunacy makes it impossible for there to be enlightening and informative discourse on TheRegister forums, particularly for stories that show negative light on anything Microsoft.

    1. YetAnotherLocksmith

      Re: idiotic Microsoft defense in down votes

      It is very hard to make a man see what is there when his mortgage payments depend on him not seeing it.

    2. Mpeler
      Holmes

      Re: idiotic Microsoft defense in down votes

      I rather think they're paid shills for Micro$hit. Someone gave the marketing department the choice of defending the indefensible, or going on the dole.

      Another lot for Golgafrinchan Ark Ship B, methinks...

  64. Supa

    Linux is the way out.

    I'm so glad I moved over to Linux all those years ago. Microsoft have dismantled everything that made Windows a workable OS.

    With Valve/Steam bringing more and more games over to Linux I am covered for my gaming needs too. Roll on Vulcan, and may you die slowly, screaming, on fire with sharp things in your head Microsoft.

  65. Supa

    Linux lifeline.

    You know when a boat sinks and out of nowhere a rescue ship throws the drowning crew a lifeline.

    I'm about to throw you that lifeline. A Linux lifeline. If you have a few more brain cells than a potato in your head, you can move to Linux today.

    Here is how: from Windows,

    1. Download the Linux Mint Cinnamon ISO image from here: http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

    2. Download “Unetbootin” here http://unetbootin.github.io/

    3. Burn the Linux Mint ISO image you downloaded to a empty USB drive.

    4. Reboot and boot from the Linux USB drive you just created.

    5. Play around with Linux and if you like it, install it alongside your Windows.

    5. Enjoy your freedom, and more importantly YOUR OS.

    I take no responsibility for you losing any/all of your data using this quick tutorial, so ensure you make a full backup of your Windows system first. But since your OS is going down the shitter anyway, what do you have to lose?!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Linux lifeline.

      I switched to Linux back in 2007, but I did it piecemeal by first using ONLY cross-platform applications like LibreOffice, VLC, Firefox/Thunderbird, and VirtualBox.

      Then when I switched to a gnome2 based distro, the change was hardly noticeable.

      Also installing ttf-mscorefonts-installer package was important because back then default linux fonts were super fugly.

  66. Anonymous Bullard

    Devil's advocate

    This doesn't affect me in the slightest, I dislike Windows as much as the next intelligent person..

    But how does this differ from Google's and Apple's OSes?

    1. Kiwi Silver badge

      Re: Devil's advocate

      But how does this differ from Google's and Apple's OSes?

      With them, you have a choice if and when you download them, and if and when you install them. and if you decide you don't want to download them, you don't get constantly nagged to do so.

  67. Chelios

    As a home user, I quite like it. /awaits pictchforks

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Give it twelve months… or there abouts. It's too soon to tell how well this will pan out.

      I've said it before though, the Linux distributions have been doing rolling-releases for decades now. Microsoft is doing this for the first time.

  68. Cynic_999 Silver badge

    Ubuntu has already gone further than Microsoft in terms of selling its users' personal data. It sends all your search terms including a search for a file on your local drive to Amazon so that they can "help" you by splurging your screen with adverts loosely related to your search terms. How soon before all Linux users are leaking more personal data to the "cloud" than Microsoft users?

    I now use both Linux (Mint) and Windows OS's (horses for courses and all that). Linux has the edge on MS for a lot of things, but it still cannot run some of the CAD software I use, send 3D content to my HDMI port or drive my 5.1 sound system with anything better than 2 channel stereo. Yes, I've looked for solutions to my sound driver issue on the forums, and tried many of the mysterious and seemingly meaningless magical incantations it was recommended I type into the terminal - some of which killed the whole PC requiring a re-install. So I still have Windows 8.1 on the PC I have connected to my TV and sound system, with Linux slowly taking over the rest.

    1. Chemist

      "How soon before all Linux users are leaking more personal data to the "cloud" than Microsoft users?"

      So don't use Ubuntu !!. There are plenty of good distros - many would pack it all in if they thought that the scenario you conjecture would happen. Any Ubuntu users care to comment - I've not used it for years.

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        From what I understand Ubuntu is partnering with Amazon for suggestions based search results. If there is a sale Canonical gets a small finders fee. I have read is can be easily turned off and only reactivates when the user decides to.

        The various Ubuntu descendants generally do not have this. I know Linux Mint does not. I believe Pinguy, ZorinOS, Bohdi do not. Also, I am not aware of any other distro that has any thing like what Ubuntu has.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Big difference between reporting searches and reporting keystrokes. BIG difference.

        A search might be the word "terminal" used to bring up the shell. The keystroke telemetry would include every keystroke typed into that terminal, including but not limited to, the commands and passwords used in that terminal session.

    2. Supa

      "Ubuntu has already gone further than Microsoft in terms of selling its users' personal data."

      That's a pretty bold statement. Source please? You might want to search "Microsoft Skype NSA". Then rethink what you just thunk "gone further" equates to.

    3. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
      Linux

      @Cynic999

      In Ubuntu go to Settings>Security & Privacy, click on the "Search" tab and switch ""Include online search results" to "Off". That's it!

  69. BobRocket

    Pointy Stick

    If you support a number of Win<10 users can you not set the address to look for updates to a particular local machine and post only acceptable updates to that machine ?

    If that was possible the users could be set to 'always update' and you would know that they would only be installing approved updates.

    It might be that the address for updates is hard coded into windows, I have no idea as I use linux (#smugface)

  70. David Roberts Silver badge

    Just checking

    With all the frothing rants about how the lawyers are going to tear into MS any day now because of their illegal activities with W10, two questions:

    (1) This had been going on for a while. Any links to pending litigation?

    (2) None of the frothing ranters have offered to sue on behalf of the rest of us. Why not, if it is such an obvious easy win?

  71. A Butler

    Ah the MS hatred alive and well

    God the vitriolic bile and hatred towards Microsoft here on what has been a pretty successful OS release is pretty incredible really. Maybe the Linux die hard’s are hoping the lazy main stream media that peruse this site will alter their view of the launch and adapt a more pessimistic Windows 10 upgrade narrative.

    I have upgraded plenty of machines of various ages and spec and from the outset apart for a few niggles most have been fine. I had 1 user that had to go back to Windows 7 because an old Toshiba GDI printer/copier would not work with it and that’s about it.

    I get the lack of choice and the pushing out of the OS upgrade and how everyone loves their Windows 7; however from Microsoft’s perspective they want a model similar to Apple when it comes to OS support yet no one complains about their behavior. If MS did not push retirement of old OS’s we’d still have people bitching and expecting support on Windows NT!

    As another poster pointed out Apple have had their fair share of upgrade pain recently, as for Linux yes its free however we all know the advocates here are charging well for their services (as they are well entitled to) so it’s not FREE really.

    Orderly queue please for the down votes…

    1. Chemist

      Re: Ah the MS hatred alive and well

      "however we all know the advocates here are charging well for their services (as they are well entitled to) so it’s not FREE really."

      WHAT !

    2. Supa

      Re: Ah the MS hatred alive and well

      Ending with "Orderly queue please for the down votes…" makes it look like you don't even have any faith yourself in what you just posted, and instead were just looking for a OS flame war.

      You are entitled to your opinion, i'm not twelve any more, so no downvote from me.

      However, from my experience. I've been on many operating systems over the years. And without listing my entire history in IT, from AmigaOS, various Linux distros, Windows 95 to 10 and a bit of dabbling with the MacOS - I'm far from a "Linux die-hard"! I'm about as OS agnostic as they come.

      Being a content developer, I just use what works. And until you've been sat up for three days coding, only to go for a coffee and return to find your OS (Windows) decided to auto-install updates and reboot causing you to lose days worth of work - labelling painful experiences as being a "die-hard" to because a person found an OS that doesn't do that is just ignorant to the facts.

      I'm sure I'm not the only one here with painful Windows anecdotes either. How many on here have sat wasting their lives away watching Windows installer progress bars I wonder? How much time lost would that amount to over a persons lifetime?

      How many people build a custom pc - only to slap a Windows OS on it that every other Joe out there is running. Where is the personality in Windows?

      Up until recently I've paid for every release of Windows, on not just mine but my partners pc's. Now that it's free doesn't make me feel any better either; when the user is the product they are selling - or more aptly selling out.

      When I build a pc. I build it or me. When I put an OS on it, I expect it to work for me, not against me. When I donate to Linux, I do it out of a sense of gratitude, not out of necessity or cult obligation spurred on by the "newest is best / everyone else uses it / keeping up wit the Joneses" mentality.

      When Skynet..! er.. Microsoft release an OS that makes me more productive, is open source, privacy centric, and isn't a rolling experiment for their psuedo-digital convergence cluster fuck. I may actually start using Windows again. As for the abortion it has become today - i'd rather be labelled a [ fill in OS here ] die-hard, because I guess I'm in good company. Company that is growing every day if M$ keep this shit up.

    3. Richard Plinston Silver badge

      Re: Ah the MS hatred alive and well

      > a pretty successful OS release

      It may well be 'pretty successful' from Microsoft's point of view - they managed to force it down 115million throats (or at least download it that many times), but it seems that it is not 'successful' from many users point of view.

      1. Kiwi Silver badge

        Re: Ah the MS hatred alive and well

        (or at least download it that many times)

        An interesting metric... I tried installing it several times on a test machine. If they're counting downloads then I have at least a dozen personally, and every single time it failed to install...

        I took that as am omen and have since had to fight to keep it off the machine.

    4. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Ah the MS hatred alive and well

      "however from Microsoft’s perspective they want..."

      Who gives a fiddler's fart what Microsoft want? Most of us purchase our computers to do what we want them to do, not for Microsoft's benefit. Nor do we give a flying fuck what Apple's up to unless we own a Mac. You are correct that Linux isn't free (unless your time is worth nothing). But there's absolutely no obligation to purchase anything in Linuxland unless you choose to do so. That's freedom!

    5. Supa

      Re: Ah the MS hatred alive and well

      "Linux... ...so it’s not FREE really."

      Wrong! When you talk about Linux and "free". It means "free" as in "freedom". Not "free" as in beer. You have a kink in your think. While many Linux distros may be "free beer", it's a moot point. Vendors may charge for service to users of a "free beer" Linux OS, Redhat and others case in point.

    6. Kiwi Silver badge

      Re: Ah the MS hatred alive and well

      As another poster pointed out Apple have had their fair share of upgrade pain recently,

      That goes with the territory. If you create enough updates you will at some stage have something break. Linux, MS, Apple, whoever. It will happen. The key is handling it gracefully, and having a good way to undo it. And yes, even the best will totally screw up some machines some times. There is to much variety in hardware and software out there.

      as for Linux yes its free however we all know the advocates here are charging well for their services (as they are well entitled to) so it’s not FREE really.

      In my shop, I charge. For friends or family of other people (ie not directly my friend or family) I charge. For those who are friend/family/cute enough I do the work for free (except hardware usually). Not for 10. If you want an upgrade from 7 or 8 then you will get an upgrade - most likely Mint or Zorin. Otherwise, you can pay someone to do it (and note that you from then on must not come to me for support!)

      But note that this applies "equally"1 to Windows and Linux. Actually I think from now on I might only do free support for Linux. Anything else and you can pay. Thanks actually, that'll probably save me a lot of headaches.

      Orderly queue please for the down votes…

      I notice that not even the other MS shills could bother to give you an upvote!

      1 Actually unfairly. Seldom do I get support calls for Linux machines, and seldom do I need more than shell access to fix something if it can't be fixed over the phone. Linux users I support have an average age over 65, all love it, although one had some niggles with the changes to the look and feel of Free Cell - quickly overcome by the realisation that it could have more than just 1 undo). I get constant support calls for MS products however, usually malware related, most usually these days that malware is in the form of borked updates.

  72. Roger Mew

    Not yet!

    Certainly windows 10 is faster, that I accept, however without another machine to look up the problems them this machine would be square wheeled. Not one of my extended family could cope with its shenanigans such as blue screens saying about something stupid, nor the refusal of skype not starting from an "app" but from an icon, and many other silly things. Frankly at present it is a "for geeks only" system, that and having to faff about putting the password in, the machine going to places I do not want. Good it maybe, but not yet good enough for the masses. I still prefer to use Vista, it is a solid base and has never on two computers let me down. The machine with 10 has a bad hair day normally everyother day...your computer blah blah blah and we are collecting information to blah blah blah and we will then restart (sometimes although sometimes you will have to crash it when the light stops flahing as we are having a bad hair day)

  73. This post has been deleted by its author

  74. Nathan 13

    Microsoft

    Can go and fuck themselves, that is all.

  75. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Driving by crash sites

    It always helps to learn from mistakes.

    I used to admin for Windows for small businesses in the old days when things were unexpectedly causing problems and lots of stress knowing you cannot solve the problem until MS fixes the problems while customers were hogging for immediate solution, which don't come sooner, so usual reboot/re-install/patching/hacking through the long hours.

    Once I learned about Linux, I completely revamped all the servers to Linux and replaced all problematic PCs with Macs. My stress level went way down, my work hours were very leisurely, and I ended up working like the one in the old Maytag commercial, and actually get a college degree studying off-hours otherwise would have been spent working overtime fixing non-fixable Windows.

    I have since never dealt with Windows, either at work or at home due to my traumatic experience with Windows.

    I always read these articles like a curious observer driving by a crash site that reminds me of similar incidents I barely escaped a long time ago, and how I escaped and am completely free from any of these issues.

  76. Jess

    I just installed it on an oldish HP

    The machine was a rescued chuck out, that had been used with downgrade rights on XP.

    I did a fresh install with the HP Windows 7 64 disk. The resulting system was a bit slow and and nowhere near as stable as I'd like.

    I used the media creation tool to do the upgrade without any additional media (same company that required you to click start to turn off, so it's consistent).

    However the resulting system actually works really well. (2GB RAM, dual core 3GHz).

    The interface reminds me of an old version of linux I used a few years ago, and neither the performance, nor the interface have made me want to install classic shell. I tried installing office 97 and the 2007 compatibility pack (the stated requirement is just to make xlsx files work) and it works fine.

    (For comparison I find 8 the worst UI I have used in the last 20 years, reminding me of Windows 3.1 and full screen DOS apps in the way it works.)

    My plan was originally to use it simply to get familiar with the new system and to keep tucked away somewhere in case I need a specific windows app, however it is good enough that I have been using it as a regular machine.

    In comparison I upgraded a Mac of a similar age to El Capitan, and its performance was very poor. (Perhaps MS should offer WIn 10 upgrades free to Macs, including x86 ones now unsupported.)

    I still much prefer Macs to Windows, but I think OS X has been slowly moving backwards since Snow Leopard, while Windows 10 is a small step from 7, but a giant leap from 8.

    The issue of forcing upgrades, it is wrong to do this. They should put up a warning with the support status of the system they are using and offering the upgrade, on start up once a month.

    I think it might have been more sensible to allow users of XP and Vista (I bet lots would love to have a free upgrade forced on them) to have Windows 10 free, than to force it on others.

    1. Vic

      Re: I just installed it on an oldish HP

      a rescued chuck out ... 2GB RAM, dual core 3GHz

      You realise that's faster than anything I own?

      Vic.

  77. casinowilhelm

    Worse than viruses

    Windows automatic updates have lost me way more precious work over the years than any virus has ever done. Usually because I've wandered off and left a file open in an application that doesn't autosave, and then windows has decided to reset itself automatically to apply some update or other. Which by default forces everything to close in the process. Whereas the only viruses I ever got just put some annoying pop up ads everywhere. Oh, wait, that sounds familiar...

  78. Tubz

    and when Microsdicks bawks thousands of machines that are not 100% compatible, when they say they are will they liable for the costs in putting them right ?

    1. Kiwi Silver badge

      I've been advising customers to send the bill to them. I don't know if they would ever pay someone (their EULA basically states that is their code is crap and costs you, well that's your tough luck for running their shitware), but a few million cases of people sending in bills for repairs to them would at least cause them some cost in trying to deal with the mountains of paper.

      Always worth a shot. Although .22 to the head is more the sort of shot I would like with W10.. Or some C4 - make sure it's really dead.

  79. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Holmes

    Implants Coming

    This is beginning to resemble the plot of "Kingsman: The Secret Service" and, by the way, Satya Nadella does resemble Samuel L. Jackson a bit.....

    Should we be concerned that the 'free' system won't end in World domination or something?

  80. Unicornpiss Silver badge
    Unhappy

    I despise being 'forced' to update..

    But if MS is going to pursue this questionable behavior, they should at least wait until 2016 when W7 reaches end of support, then give the option with a clear explanation of why.

    But naturally they won't do that because every person they hook early with W10 means more marketing and in the future subscription revenue, usability, stability, users' wishes, and privacy are apparently all secondary to the mighty $$.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: I despise being 'forced' to update.. @Unicornpiss

      Windows 7 entered "extended support" on 14-Jan-2015 and will remain in extended support until 14-Jan-2020.

      I expect that MS will in mid-2016 try the same trick with Win7/8/8.1 support as it did with Win8 after it release the optional then mandatory Win8.1 update via WUP and stop releasing security patches for these OS's; trying to argue that WIn10 is an SP etc.

      Also, if you are running a 'legacy' MS desktop OS (ie. anything other than Win10), you do need to bear in mind that at some stage MS can be expected to re-organise/rationalise it's website and effectively take off-line updates and materials relating these OS's...

  81. Paul Rawdon

    28 times faster than Windows 7?

    Utter and complete baloney, it sits for ages with that stupid circle thing making up its mind whether it will disappear or not then finally the desktop appears. It's more like 28 times slower than Windows 7.

    1. Kiwi Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: 28 times faster than Windows 7?

      Now now, be fair... It takes time for it to check what bits of your personal data it hasn't yet sent off to HQ, the NSA etc etc....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Re: 28 times faster than Windows 7?

      Yep. Glad you mentioned this, because...same.

      3Ghz i5, 16GB RAM, quick Samsung SSD.

      Login screen comes up blisteringly quick, then after said login, blue circle while you wait and wait. On 7 it was phenomenally quick, Ubuntu even faster.

  82. nubwaxer

    i'm trying w10 on my 10 year old netbook and it lags a bit. otherwise it's the same old windows as '98, 2,000, xp, vista, and w7. the only thing is they try to drive you crazy by making you hunt for the same functions that all previous editions have had. for example, want to change your background wallpaper? it took me half and hour online to find out how to do it. it seems the "action center" is now a second control panel just for aggravation's sake it seems.

  83. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A domain and WSUS is no protection

    A couple of days ago I discovered (purely by accident) that my work Win 7 PC had been offered the "Get Windows 10 app" (KB3035583) as an "recommended" update and reconfigured Windows update to fetch updates directly from MicroSoft. My work PC is registered in our domain, sits behind a WSUS server managed by System Centre. A collegue tested this with a fresh Windows 7 PC and the same thing happened.

    This was apparently due to a mis-configuration in System Centre. So now the server guy has pushed out a reg hack to stop GWX from installing via Group Policy and is changing the setup of System Centre (which will keep our tame external consultant and his employer in beer money for a while, whilst making our state funded organisation a bit poorer).

    Not sure what Microsoft hope to achieve with all this. Unless they are trying to make server guys around the world very good at locking down all systems that deliver updates to client PCs.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019