back to article CISA latest: Law urging tech giants to share your info with the Feds shows no sign of stopping

On Thursday morning the proposed Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act (CISA) moved a step closer to reality when the US Senate voted 83 to 14 to end debate on a package of amendments. The CISA legislation invites internet giants and other companies to quietly give people's private and personal information to the federal …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    In Nazi Germany and communist Russia, people were encouraged to shop their neighbours to the government. I see the US government sees some merit in this idea.

    Jesus, I'm glad I don't live there, and they think this kind of thing will endear them to the EU for safe harbour. Don't hold your breath.

    1. BillG Silver badge
      WTF?

      Roe v. Wade

      This is very dangerous for a reason not yet discussed - the U.S. Supreme Court decision of Roe v. Wade ruled that abortion is legal because the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution INFERS a right to privacy. it's important that the ruling states that the 14th INFERS a right to privacy, it does not directly mention it.

      If CISA is allowed to pass, it chips away at the privacy inference in the 14th and threatens overturning not only Roe v. Wade but Miranda and a host of others.

      To make the world more upside down, Democrat Obama says he'll sign this privacy-stripping bill, while in Congress a Republican is against it while an ultra-left Democrat from California supports it.

      The world has gone insane.

      1. asdf Silver badge

        Re: Roe v. Wade

        >because the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution INFERS a right to privacy

        Wow amazing to believe the SCOTUS at one time gave a shit about the privacy of the peons. Shows just how long ago Roe v Wade was.

      2. asdf Silver badge

        Re: Roe v. Wade

        >ultra-left Democrat from California supports it.

        She sure loves corporations a bit too much to be ultra left. Guess you can preface it by saying ultra left for the US.

        1. joed

          Re: Roe v. Wade

          it's because in US we have conservatives and liberals - in Europe you'd say it's all the same, so they are

        2. SundogUK

          Re: Roe v. Wade

          She's an outright corporatist/fascist. A national socialist of the pure sort.

      3. Youngone Silver badge

        Re: Roe v. Wade

        > ultra-left Democrat from California supports it.

        She's just playing a role, like most of the rest of the Political class in the US. If her role called for a red-necked, gun loving, homophobe, then she'd play that role instead.

        Also, compared to everywhere else in the world, she's far-right.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Roe v. Wade

          No empire of course (although pretending otherwise is yet another symptom)... but still an uncanny summary of the situation: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/04/empires-collapse.html>http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/04/empires-collapse.html

          1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

            Re: Roe v. Wade / Empires collapse

            Interesting link, thanks for sharing. Pretty good summary of the mechanisms and internal dynamics that spell (potential) doom for any large organisation. Couldn't however figure out what the bit at the very end about Obamacare was supposed to add to it. (But being an European wuss I'm quite comfortable being part of a healthcare system that may be far from perfect, but will provide what I need without bankrupting me. Not an evil thing at all!) The resulting flamewar in the comments was mildly amusing though.

      4. FreeBrad

        Re: Roe v. Wade

        The left have always been authoritarian, constantly and consistently demanding laws and regulations that restrict what would ordinarily be non criminal activities. Most of the pre-crime/non-crime laws such as speeding have been continually backed by the left. The right tend to want less regulation, but more severe punishment.

        1. asdf Silver badge

          Re: Roe v. Wade

          In general the right wants to tell you what you can do (less regulation only for the %1 they sure want to legislate morality in the US if they could) and the left wants to tell you what you can own.

    2. Bill B

      Safe Harbour

      @skelband .. You've succinctly summarised why the EU objects to the sharing of personal data with the States. Privacy laws are a lot stricter because of the invasion of privacy by an oppressive government is still fresh in people's minds. I can understand why Microsoft et al don't like this law. It widens the chasm of privacy between the USA and the EU, making it increasingly difficult for these companies to do business here.

  2. Grikath Silver badge

    I feel like I'm reading the never-written prequel to "If This Goes On" that Heinlein declined to write because it was both too depressing and too accurate.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    America is now actively hostile to EU data residentsy

    It seems that America is now actively hostile to data residency for EU citizens.

    This is not going to end well. :(

    1. asdf Silver badge

      Re: America is now actively hostile to EU data residentsy

      >This is not going to end well. :(

      If the tech companies are really against it they can end this nonsense in 24 hours like they did with SOPA (only thing that gets Millennials attention politically is taking away their ability to share the dump they just took online). The companies are probably waiting to see how things go.

      1. joed

        Re: America is now actively hostile to EU data residentsy

        I bet they just want to look clean (PR) while benefiting from government contract. Just another proof that one (select ones;) can have one's cake and eat it too.

    2. Someone Else Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Re: America is now actively hostile to EU data residentsy

      It seems that America is now actively hostile to data residency for EU its citizens.

      There, FTFY

      1. Captain DaFt

        Re: America is now actively hostile to EU data residentsy

        "There, FTFY"

        Nah, just strike off everything after the word "hostile", and it's fixed.

    3. Mark 85 Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: America is now actively hostile to EU data residentsy

      Uh.. not just toward the EU citizens but also it's own. I've nothing to hide (other than banking detail and the usual personal data that's really no one's business) and I'm scared witless about this trend.

      1. annodomini2

        Re: America is now actively hostile to EU data residentsy

        IRS would probably disagree...

    4. Warm Braw Silver badge

      Re: America is now actively hostile to EU data residentsy

      >This is not going to end well.

      For whom? For those of us on the sidelines, it's going to be vastly entertaining. For those of us in the EU it's at least going to end better than it is now. And it's really up to US business to decide how they want it to end for them - they've already moved/kept most of their cash offshore to avoid US tax law, so it's not like they don't have experience in jurisdiction-hopping.

  4. Christoph Silver badge

    So if a US company has a clear and specific privacy statement that they won't misuse my data, and publicly swear blind that they do not and will not misuse my data, and do everything they can to emphasise that they are trustworthy and do not misuse data - that will all be utterly worthless and meaningless.

    A US company which genuinely has nothing to do with this will have no way whatever to give convincing evidence of that.

    Gee, I wonder why the tech companies are worried about this?

    1. Graham Cobb

      The last nail in the coffin of US Cloud services

      A US company which genuinely has nothing to do with this will have no way whatever to give convincing evidence of that.

      That is all US cloud services killed stone dead.

      Shame, really, AWS is not a bad service and at a good price. But not at the price of never being able to enforce a contract with them.

    2. Dick Palmer
      Pirate

      "So if a US company has a clear and specific privacy statement that they won't misuse my data, and publicly swear blind that they do not and will not misuse my data, and do everything they can to emphasise that they are trustworthy and do not misuse data - that will all be utterly worthless and meaningless."

      Yup. They appear to be attempting to recycle the stinking corpse of the "safe harbor" scam into domestic law. It seems the US's sausage factory has been taken over by the Soylent Corporation.

  5. Cincinnataroo

    A law to STOP the rule of law

    Wow. What do those who want these laws have on the legislators? They have gone on record not voting for the rights of the electorate. Must be a reason to do that.

    1. Antonymous Coward
      Mushroom

      Re: A law to STOP the rule of law

      The Legalization of Fraud (but Only if You're a Corporation and the Victims Are Just Common Plebs) Act, 2015

      Anyone else being reminded of the wanton excesses of ancient Rome?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A law to STOP the rule of law

      What do they have on them?

      Well, if you research a little into this, you might get a plausible answer ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PScfMeXAQwU

  6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Two birds with one stone

    Maybe the tech companies should just move to the EU. It would get them out of this and out of the EU privacy concerns.

    1. g e

      Re: Two birds with one stone

      I was thinking that then it occurred to me that it does seem, over the last three years or so, that MS, Amazon, Google have increased corporate activity over here, compared to increasing business, so to speak.

      Makes you wonder if they're not perhaps preparing to move HQ (extreme, unlikely) or decentralise/segregate US operations as they have plenty of clever & connected staff/associates who could have seen this coming. MS's Irish data case could be seen as a toe in the water to see how they may need to legally structure EU ops to not be beholden to any presumed US law. And that's before you factor in the whole recent Safe Harbour stuff.

      Just thinking out loud, not an expert, IANNC (I Am Not Noam Chomsky)

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Two birds with one stone

        "move HQ (extreme, unlikely)"

        Unlikely to move it to the EU I agree, but to somewhere with a pleasant climate & very low taxes could be a reasonable probability.

  7. cantankerous swineherd Silver badge

    the internet is totally untrustworthy and has been for a while.

    internet use case = cat videos

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I may be getting lost....but.

    Through post 9/11 legislation and pograms like PRISM the USA-government started mass-surveillance and storage of information directly tapping into cloud-stuff stored inside the US.

    Big Companies responded by puttng server outside of the USA and promising customers data would be stored there. Though much customer info may still be transferred to the USA.

    The USA requests access to a mailbox in Ireland on the grounds that the company owning the storage is a US company and the USA does not care whether it is stored outside of the USA.

    The EU declares "Safe Harbour" insufficient guarantee for data-owners because the USA-Government thinks it can apply mass-surveillance o EU citizens.

    The USA does not do mass-surveillance on the data stored in the EU, but mkes an individual request.

    CISA gets amended so requests by the US-gov should not be reported.

    Is the USA hoping for mass-surveillance on the data held abroad? Not necessarily.

    Why do EU citizens think that mass-surveillance is already applied by the US-gov on data stored in the EU?

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge
      Flame

      Why do EU citizens think that mass-surveillance is already applied by the US-gov on data stored in the EU?

      Why would we not?

      World over we have examples of governments sucking as much data as they can, on grounds of 'piracy', 'terrorism', and 'will nobody think of the children', and yet while all claim great strides are made in safety, extreme plots brought to the ground, and the like, somehow no-one (except an occasional token appearance) appears in court, and the piracy, terrorism, and child abuse goes on.

      There is absolutely no evidence available to the average citizen that these processes work, or indeed what it is that they are supposed to achieve.

      Once again: dear government, mind your own bloody business. When you have at least sufficient other evidence to believe I have committed an offence, then you may try and convince a judge that access to any data I may have left scattered around the place is to be made available to you. Requiring companies to store my data and metadata on the offchance that one day you may want to see it is neither efficient nor productive.

      So I don't care whether you're my government, or you're an overseas government which is publicly demonstrating an appetite for grabbing all you can: no.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Because it's not about catching terrorists etc, it's about control.

    2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

      Because they can, that's why

      "Why do EU citizens think that mass-surveillance is already applied by the US-gov on data stored in the EU?"

      I do not want to appear rude, but have you been hibernating for the past two years? (On second thought, make that 20 years. I've just remembered the Echelon system.)

  9. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse Silver badge

    Just wait...

    This is exactly the issue that the Daily Mail reading idiots seem to be ignoring in their "UK out of EU" rants. If we are forced out of the EU by the reactive uninformed masses, then this (or similar) will be one of the very first draconian policies that will be implemented in the UK.

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: Just wait...

      Or we can stay in the EU and do it anyway just as Germany did FOR the US. This is the same EU who is tanking in both currency, politics and migration issues. Dont tie yourself to the titanic, and certainly not while its sinking

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Invest in government 'trust' accounts (Meaning nobody is accountable)

    "The bill is strongly opposed by technology companies including Microsoft, Apple, and Google,"

    Of course they would say that wouldn't they.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Given that the proposed law does not pass any "duty of care" on to the feds who copy this data, or require them to demand such care from companies to whom they pass on the data for "processing", does this mean that all of the personal data hoarded by the different corporate fiefdoms will end up available to all ? If so, it would destroy the commercial value of such data, which might have some interesting knock-on effects.

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