back to article Prof Hawking cracks riddle of black holes – which may be portals to other universes

Professor Stephen Hawking thinks he has solved the 40-year-old information paradox – a conundrum of what happens to matter in black holes. Matter that gets sucked into a black hole was thought to be destroyed by the immense forces involved, as per the theory of general relativity. However, that's a problem from a quantum …

  1. gerdesj Silver badge

    Cite

    "I claim he is now where I was 20 years ago," 't Hooft told the Wall Street Journal today. "If he announces this as a new idea, I won't be thrilled."

    Citation needed.

    G'tH and SH have been all over the scene for decades but for one to declare that he thought of something (important enough to generate a faintly "sour grapes" quote) first there has to be some form of publishing involved. If not then tough.

    If this is important enough then s/he who publishes first gets to claim willy waving rights.

    1. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Cite

      t'was publish on a black hole in a 2D holographic format 20 years ago which may be impractical for you to read.

      </cite>

      1. Yugguy

        Re: Cite

        "The requirement that physical phenomena associated with gravitational collapse should be duly reconciled with the postulates of quantum mechanics implies that at a Planckian scale our world is not 3+1 dimensional. Rather, the observable degrees of freedom can best be described as if they were Boolean variables defined on a two-dimensional lattice, evolving with time. This observation, deduced from not much more than unitarity, entropy and counting arguments, implies severe restrictions on possible models of quantum gravity. Using cellular automata as an example it is argued that this dimensional reduction implies more constraints than the freedom we have in constructing models. This is the main reason why so-far no completely consistent mathematical models of quantum black holes have been found. "

        To be fair I wouldn't understand the math but I do understand the abstract.

    2. Sven Coenye

      Re: Cite

      That would be http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9310026, Dimensional Reduction in Quantum Gravity, aka. the holographic principle.

      1. boltar Silver badge

        Re: Cite

        "aka. the holographic principle."

        Thats not the same as saying that information is stored in 2D form in an event horizon of a black hole.

        Anyway, the holographic principle is cobblers. If the universe is a 3D "projection" of a 2D space, whats it projecting onto? A giant screen that we're all watching? Plus it hardly squares with string theories suggestion of 11 or more dimensions.

        1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

          Re: Cite

          " whats it projecting onto? "

          The back of a giant turtle.

        2. Bleu

          Re: Cite

          You are not putting things too well, but agreed that all convincing theory makes the case of a fading 2D projection on the spherical (sure, we hear theory of other shapes, up to cylindrical, none convincing except for slight deformations from the sphere) event horizon.

          This 'holographic 3D' idea sounds so silly. Still, must be reading about it in more detail, but it seems there is no detail, just a claim.

          Some of Ben Gregford's many silly books have people wandering about in the centre of the galaxy, in a massive retreat from machines. They enter a black hole. Gregford was a physicist, but creates a nonsensical scenario, a very few interesting scenes, mainly southern states of the USA inside the black hole.

          AFAIK, Gregford does nothing much in physics, not much good as a writer, must be well-connected.-

          The one I read, I will not read again, Wilde commented that a book that is really worth reading is worth reading again, Ben Gregford fails that test.

        3. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: Cite

          "string theories" are cobblers.

          E8 seems to have a better future.

        4. E 2

          Re: Cite

          Yes but string theories are just elaborate variations on least energy style equation fitting. What kind of theory would you like today? Just vary your parameters a bit and make up a new one.

          I think "string theory" was created to maintain a serviceable population of mathematicians and physicists after the cold ended and the need for new doomsday weapons decreased. They started working on solving underdetermined mathematical models - and we all know there are infinite solutions to those.

          The string theory work will literally never end.

    3. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Holmes

      Re: Cite

      You will find that 't Hooft has published quite a few things. That guy cleans up. (examples, and, you know...)

      Also: Prof Hawking's view carries a lot of weight in the scientific community.. Not to diss Hawking, but that would be the "popular scientific" community mainly.

      1. icetrout

        Re: Cite

        True That ... Pop-Boff-a-Go-Go... Prof Hawk is a cool Daddy-O... just ask him... :P

    4. DropBear Silver badge
      WTF?

      Re: Cite

      "Citation needed"

      I'm afraid I don't have one of those, all I can bring is my (honest) initial reaction at reading the "new" theory - "wtf, I heard of this same idea years ago?!?". Unless there are some significant new insights lost somewhere in the details I freely admit failing to grok, the basic idea seems indeed to be long known...

    5. dotdavid

      Re: Cite

      "I claim he is now where I was 20 years ago,"

      Hipster science?

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Cite

        Hipster science?

        "I was into black holes before they were shown to have a thermal Planck spectrum!"

        1. Martin Budden
          Joke

          Why did the hipster burn his tongue?

          He drank coffee before it was cool.

    6. G Mac
      FAIL

      Re: Cite

      Cripes Google is your friend.

      't Hooft had the idea a while ago, and Leonard Susskind pondered the paradox for quite a while. He had a book called 'The Black Hole War: My Battle with Stephen Hawking to Make the World Safe for Quantum Mechanics'.

      It is an entertaining read.

    7. Turtle

      @gerdesj Re: Cite

      "If this is important enough then s/he who publishes first gets to claim willy waving rights."

      It's not important, it's string theory, which some people confuse with physics. But it isn't physics, it's a failed research program culminating in the "multiverse" - a device to explain away the failure of the research program that spawned it. It represents a vast waste of intellectual and scientific energy.

      1. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
        Pint

        'multiverse'

        How many horsepower (energy per unit time) are required to keep spawning all these quintillions of extra 'universes' every femotosecond?

        'Conservation of ...', nah.

    8. Sotorro
      FAIL

      Re: Cite

      Yup Hawking now has turned around, and finally agrees with Susskind and 't Hooft.

      So I have no idea what riddle he cracked.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR3Msi1YeXQ The Black Hole Wars: My Battle with Stephen Hawking (Leonard Susskind 2008)

      A Thin Sheet of Reality: The Universe as a Hologram ( Susskind, 't Hooft and others 2011) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsbZT9bJ1s4

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Holey information loss, Batman!

    Judging by this story, nothing has changed in the wacky world of relativistic quantum physics.

    I thought that such outcomes were excluded...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Holey information loss, Batman!

      First of all they give names to things we don't understand to give the illusion of understanding and then invent stuff to explain problems with their theories.

      That's not to say they're always wrong, just that it seems to me that there's less knowledge and more guessing than the common man is led to believe.

      1. g e

        Re: Holey information loss, Batman!

        Mind you, weren't lasers 'guessed at' not so long ago ?

        They're pretty good at this guessing game, has to be said.

        1. Eddy Ito Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Holey information loss, Batman!

          And when it comes to black holes guessing isn't a bad place to be since it might suck to have one near enough in the neighborhood to actually experiment on.

      2. E 2

        Re: Holey information loss, Batman!

        Susskind addressed your issue when he said string theory describes an infinite number of universes - by some metric (he did not explain which one) you get local minima in the space of solutions, he says each minima is a universe. This is a great explanation of string theory because it both demonstrates humans giving names to things they don't understand and also why string theory is useful.

        Oh wait...

    2. Bleu

      Re: Holey information loss, Batman!

      We would love to believe that your 'holey' was a word-play, but it is clear that you simply can't spell.

  3. abb2u

    Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

    Maybe it fell into a Black Hole. The good news, according to Steve Hawking, is that it could be found in another universe. The bad news, he does not tell you which one to start looking.

    1. DougS Silver badge
      Alien

      Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

      That must be why instead of losing socks in the dryer like other people complain about, I seem to get socks that aren't mine. With 9 toes.

      1. David 45

        Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

        Absolutely! Socks (along with buttons) definitely go to an after-life in another universe after being washed but sometimes re-emerge through a time warp or portal several weeks (if not months) later from the time machine that is masquerading as a dryer. Haven't worked out the controls for the replicator section yet though, to give me replacement left or right socks in the same colour. They never come back as a pair, so one must go to a different universe.

        1. Kane Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

          "They never come back as a pair, so one must go to a different universe."

          No, no, no, no, no.

          You are mistaken.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

            It is my firm that belief that it is the common House Hippo that is responsible for lost socks. Obviously, the last portion of this documentary was added by the government to throw the general population off.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TijcoS8qHIE

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          It's like Hawking Radiation... but with socks.

          "They never come back as a pair, so one must go to a different universe."

          That's inherent to the phenomenon- the socks always appear out of nowhere as a pair, just outside the drier, but the other one gets sucked back in.

          The bad news is that this means your drier will eventually disappear. It's unclear if the gradual loss of mass due to this quantum-related sock phenomenon is the reason your drier stops working after a few years, or whether that's due to it being a cheaply-made piece of disposable junk the manufacturers want you to keep replacing.

      2. TheOtherHobbes

        Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

        You don't need to worry until you find a copy of Windows 9, the next One Direction CD, some Chinese property bonds, and a towel.

        1. Matt 21

          Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

          There must be an element of quantum entanglement too. Haven't you noticed that if you lose something, say a camera, the only way to find it is to buy a new one? Within a day of giving up and buying a new one the old one is found.

          Therefore the two object must be entangled somehow.

      3. Robert Grant

        Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

        I seem to get socks that aren't mine. With 9 toes.

        Maybe you need to find the nearby person with one toe and give them back their possessions.

        1. Fink-Nottle

          Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

          > I seem to get socks that aren't mine. With 9 toes.

          In my part of the multiverse, socks don't have toes. I suppose it's the local black hole that causes the loss of digital information.

    2. Roger Kynaston
      Happy

      Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

      Biros find their way through wormholes in space to a planet which is uniquely suited to a biroid lifestyle.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

        Biros find their way through wormholes in space to a planet ....

        No they don't. They find their way into my wife's car, judging by the vast amount that I regularly find there and throw away. Any commentards desirous of a large and regularly renewed stash of unfeasibly cheap, partly chewed biros should apply to Ledswinger Towers, bringing their own skip.

        1. 0laf Silver badge

          Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

          Yes Biros do make their way to wives cars but not their lids.

          I remember a Babylon 5 movie called Third Space. I think that's where all the Biro lids go.

    3. Trigonoceps occipitalis

      Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

      But I can confirm that it will be in the last universe in which you look.

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

        Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

        "But I can confirm that it will be in the last universe in which you look."

        Of course it will, why would you keep looking once you had found it?

    4. Bleu

      Re: Have you ever lost anything you wanted back

      No, no, no, things lost at home under Earth conditions fall into *grey* holes.

  4. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Coat

    3D TV/Movies

    have been attempting to escape 2D and failing.

    TV sucks up time and you can never get it back. It spews out quite a lot of rubbish.

    Does that mean we have been staring at black holes right in our living rooms?

    1. LaeMing Silver badge
      Go

      Re: 3D TV/Movies

      Functional approximations of ones, at least.

    2. thx1138v2

      Re: 3D TV/Movies

      Close enough. Sadly, the web is getting that way also.

    3. Wzrd1

      Re: 3D TV/Movies

      Sadly, not quite. Functionally, they are similar, but in actuality, time movement ceases below the event horizon of a black hole, whereas time continues to move forward while captured under the event horizon of television or a movie.

      1. Esme

        Re: 3D TV/Movies

        @wzrd1 - not quite. If you're outside the black hole watching something fall into it, the thing you're watching will certainly appear to become 'frozen in time' to you at some point (assuming you can see it at all), but inside the even horizon time carries on as normal - just not on the same axis that you're used to experiencing time on.

  5. Ragequit
    Joke

    I welcome...

    Our holographic overlords freshly escaped from a super massive.. err microscopic black hole.

  6. Frumious Bandersnatch Silver badge

    if your keys fall into a black hole ...

    forget about them, man--they're gone.

    (or maybe not?)

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. James Hughes 1

      More importantly, why would anyone downvote that post? Was it someone from a different dimension

      1. theblackhand

        Re: down voting

        The down votes are from Ashley Madison's PR people trying to clean up their image....

        AM are now looking to provide the next generation of directory enquiries....

    2. jonathan1
      Unhappy

      I thought that was funny....

      and topical. Not sure why folks are down voting you...seems there is a down vote monster...I'm going to get downvoted now aren't I?

  8. thx1138v2

    deterministic qubit gates

    Or a black hole could be the equivalent of a logic gate for light. All you need is a laser to interfere with the light being emitted from the poles of the black hole to read the result. Of course you don't know what the input was because it came from another universe so we're back to Deep Thought and 42 and the possibility that the universe itself is just a quantum computer where we are the substrate and the black holes are the deterministic qubit gates.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150824114255.htm

    1. Omgwtfbbqtime Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: deterministic qubit gates

      As long as it does not violate causality by producing the output before the input.....

      With thanks to Charles Stross.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    tl;dr

    It's magic.

  10. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
    Boffin

    Yea but

    What we want to know is what happens when you poke a black hole with a stick.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Yea but

      THEN ANCIENT/TRANSDIMENSIONAL EVIL IS UNLEASHED and you end up WHERE YOU NEED NO EYES

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Yea but

        "...and you end up WHERE YOU NEED NO EYES"

        Grimsby?

        1. Chris G Silver badge

          Re: Yea but

          No, Hull on a Friday night!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Yea but

            You still need eyes, it's just best not to use them.

    2. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Re: Yea but

      What we want to know is what happens when you poke a black hole with a stick.

      Well, for a start, you never get to see the far end of the stick touch the event horizon (as long as you don't fall into it yourself).

    3. Wzrd1

      Re: Yea but

      "What we want to know is what happens when you poke a black hole with a stick."

      You get irradiated by the accretion disc you're joining.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    H2G2

    Cheap green retractables, So a biroid lifestyle is possible. All hail DNA.

  12. pstiles
    Coat

    Two black holes

    Two black holes in the pub; one turns to the other and says: "Remember when you were young? You shone like the sun."

    1. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Re: Two black holes

      Shine on, you crazy diamond.

      Which, interestingly, is what a star which isn't massive enough to collapse into a neutron star or a black hole becomes: a white dwarf, the solar core of fusion-produced carbon (or possibly carbon-nitrogen-oxygen) radiating at 10 million degrees for tens of billions of years.

      Lovely.

  13. 0laf Silver badge
    Unhappy

    You go through life thinking that you're quite bright, fairly intelligent, pretty good at solving problems. Then, every so often along comes an article like this just to remind you that you are, in fact, as thick as two short planks.

    Thanks physics.

    1. smudge Silver badge
      Coat

      If only you had said "...two short plancks" :)

      2 x 16.162×10−36 metres

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
        Joke

        It is so often the way, sir, too late one thinks of what one should have said.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Plasma Spewing

    Recently there was an article where a black hole was photographed spewing plasma at high speed out of its core. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32915126)

    I didn't understand how, with a gravity field able to hoover up light and compress matter to a near singularity it could spew out plasma which could then escape the boundary of the event horizon.

    I think scientific theory has a long way to go on the black hole subject.

    1. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Re: Plasma Spewing

      Back to 1963 and Penrose's misinterpretation of Finklestein.

      1. Bleu

        Re: Plasma Spewing

        Tom 7,

        Penrose spoke of many of the concepts Hawking has recently recycled.

        You might enlighten readers more shallow in history by explaining 'misinterpretation of Finklestein'.

        This is a tech site, not speculative physics, though as you would guess, many have studied physics to various levels at universities that actually teach it, and theory of electronics and electrical engineering, especially for those graduating before computer-aided everything, is impossible without physics.

    2. Chris--S

      Re: Plasma Spewing

      This sort of stuff is believed to come from its accretion disc, the dose, infalling matter outside the event horizon.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Plasma Spewing

        So what would cause a rapid outward acceleration of matter? Where did that energy come from? How is that energy concentrated around the black hole, a giant energy sucking beast?

        1. Esme

          Re: Plasma Spewing

          As matter gets sucked in towards the collapsar, it gets compressed, which raises its temperature greatly, causing it to at least try to expand. That close to the event horizon, there's only a very narrow angle of sky into which anything can still escape. Any stuff heading toward anywhere else in the sky finds that its trajectory still intercepts the event horizon and thus still gets sucked in. Hence the narrowness of the jets caused.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Plasma Spewing

            That doesn't make sense. If it is getting pulled in and compressed then that wouldn't naturally allow it to contain enough energy to expand away.

            It could be a case that the compression creates a fusion reaction resulting in a runaway reaction, however this still wouldn't really explain the dynamics of the near speed of light pulses that are emitted.

            I'm guessing that no-one really knows.

        2. Chemist

          Re: Plasma Spewing

          "How is that energy concentrated around the black hole, a giant energy sucking beast?"

          Try : http://www.space.com/5285-powerful-black-hole-jet-explained.html

          1. Grikath Silver badge

            Re: Plasma Spewing

            Don't ever forget that the area just outside the event horizon is still subject to the normal laws of physics.. This means there's a very rapidly spinning ring of very hot plasma right outside that black hole, making for a pretty substantial magnetic field around it. Plasma that enters that bit at the right trajectory will get an almighty whallop and gets shot out at the poles at rather impressive speeds. Same happens at neutron stars, really. the black hole event horizon simply has a higher energy density, so it shoots out stuff even faster.

        3. E 2
          Boffin

          Re: Plasma Spewing

          All the matter and energy falling down the gravitational well is converting potential energy to kinetic energy and heat - that's where the energy comes from. Outside the event horizon, heat and radiation pressure can exceed the gravitation pull. Some of the matter gets hot enough and escapes, and it is very very energetic. Some of the matter gets sucked in. It's only at the event horizon that no escape is possible.

    3. DropBear Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Plasma Spewing

      Oh, they're all wrong - of course information isn't destroyed! Merely all pointers to it get removed...

    4. Chemist

      Re: Plasma Spewing

      "I think scientific theory has a long way to go on the black hole subject."

      It said by a black hole not from a black hole

      "Astronomers have witnessed two big blobs of plasma, shot into space by a black hole"

    5. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Plasma Spewing

      "I didn't understand how, with a gravity field able to hoover up light and compress matter to a near singularity it could spew out plasma which could then escape the boundary of the event horizon."

      The same reason a dyson doesn't have much dust going through the motor.

      The "cyclone effect" flings most of the matter outwards. Only 2-3% of what's in the accretion sidk is destined to cross the event horizon.

      Black holes are messier eaters than Cookie Monster.

  15. Schlimnitz

    Honestly, from a layman's point of view this stuff is indistinguishable from woo.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It sure is interesting though!

  16. Robert Grant

    If the idea's been around for 20 years

    Don't publish the announcement.

    Either way - find out for sure before publishing.

    1. John 110

      Re: If the idea's been around for 20 years

      "Don't publish the announcement."

      So does that mean it's both true and not-true in a quantum superposition and we won't find out till we read the paper, at which point we destroy what we're observing? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick? Does it even have two ends?

    2. E 2

      Re: If the idea's been around for 20 years

      You gotta keep in mind, whenever someone like Hawking says something there may be some hack waiting about to turn it into "news".

  17. astrax

    Damn you Brain, why you no genius?

    Sir, I have no idea what you just said but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    Also, is it just me or does anyone else think that if we could manipulate/decipher Hawking radiation then artificial blackholes could be the ultimate data storage solution? It would give the term 'Hyperconvergence' a literal meaning!

    1. Naselus

      Re: Damn you Brain, why you no genius?

      "Also, is it just me or does anyone else think that if we could manipulate/decipher Hawking radiation then artificial blackholes could be the ultimate data storage solution?"

      Hawking Radiation does not work that way.

      1. Bleu

        Re: Damn you Brain, why you no genius?

        One of the late great Jack Williamson's later great short stories had trust in Hawking radiation going wrong as a central plot point.

        Someone makes a mini-black hole in containment, it falls out, gains mass ...

        Doesn't evaporate.

        I cannot recall the title, still have it, but it is in a box right now.

        On the concrete level, I cannot imagine the conditions for mini black holes that evaporate through Hawking radiation to form.

  18. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "matter's information about its physical state is supposed to be permanent"

    Supposed to be? That sounds like an untested assumption in which case there may be no paradox at all.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's called theory. The same as the theory that nothing can go faster than the speed of light. It creates a basic component of physics, however new theories may come along which supersede those of before.

      For a lot of physics "a theory" and a "supposed to" is about as close as you can get.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        I may be old-fashioned here but in my book a theory is a hypothesis that has been tested by some means which would be able to falsify it and has so far failed to be falsified. A hypothesis is a proposition that is testable in that way even if it hasn't been so tested. "Supposed to" is a long way from either.

  19. boltar Silver badge

    "For a lot of physics "a theory" and a "supposed to" is about as close as you can get."

    The problems arise when further theories use these suppositions as facts and build on them. It wouldn't surprise if a large part of modern theoretical physics is a house of cards just waiting for someone to whip out one of the cards/suppositions at the bottom.

    1. GrumpyWorld

      the weakest link?

      IIRC Hawking Radiation is justified by an application of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle to 'objects' at the Event Horizon of a Black Hole (i.e. since you can't predict that everything is going in then some things must be coming out).

      I was never convinced by this and offer up an alternative definition for an event horizon:

      The set of points at which HUP ceases to work in the vicinity of a Black Hole.

    2. Toltec

      "It wouldn't surprise if a large part of modern theoretical physics is a house of cards just waiting for someone to whip out one of the cards/suppositions at the bottom."

      It is closer to underpinning a foundation than removing one, it allows you to build a new and stronger structure. Physicists are not a priesthood trying to preserve the status quo they are actively trying to rip it down and re-build it.

  20. hatti

    Experiement

    We'll find out for sure when someone volunteers to have a rope tied round their waist while we lower them in with their pen and notepad.

    Hold on tight...

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Happy

      Re: Experiement

      Surely we just send BT's crack customer service commando unit. The black hole will give up all its information in self defence, after the 3 millionth iteration of Greensleaves and attempt to get through to the right department.

      I know that confession under torture is inadmissible in court. But is it acceptable for scientific papers?

  21. AceRimmer1980
    Pint

    There's only one bit of 'information' I want from another universe

    and that's a complete box set of Firefly, seasons 1-9.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: There's only one bit of 'information' I want from another universe

      OK, take your choice: 0 1

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Devil

      Re: There's only one bit of 'information' I want from another universe

      I've got copies of all the Firefly box-sets. Only mine are from the alternate universe where it was written and produced by David Hasselhoff. Did I mention that he also starred as Captain Mal Reynolds?

      Would you like me to post them to you? You can have them for free...

  22. schlechtj

    No black holes anyway

    I'll say it again.... Black holes take an infinite amount of time to form since an increase in gravity slows down time. Therefore, black holes proper (a singularity) do not exist in our universe and all these wacky conjectures about how to deal with a singularity are unnecessary. "The laws of physics break down inside a black hole" the same way they do in fairy land and for the same reasons. It's sad that Mr Hawking has wasted his whole life on this and is clawing at something that people will believe before he dies. I know I sound heartless but how much money have we wasted on this stuff? As Alders razor states - anything that cannot be proven by experiment is not even worthy of discussion, and therefore our funding ir attention.

    1. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: No black holes anyway

      "Therefore, black holes proper (a singularity) do not exist in our universe"

      At least one theory has been advanced that they're the last stage of implosion before it bounces back out, with the extreme gravity slowing this sub-femtosecond event down enough that the rest of the universe sees it as a long-lived process.

      The problem with them is that all conventional physics breaks at the event horizon. They exist, but we can't really explain how and having one close enough to experiment on isn't conducive to being able to write up the results

  23. Identity
    Boffin

    Another Country Heard From

    Perhaps 30 years ago, I read in a book by Freeman Dyson the theory that the other side of a black hole is a white hole, spewing matter and/or energy into another location, perhaps another universe. It has been posited that in another universe, the big bang would appear to be a white hole.

    "The concept of a “white hole,” a hypothetical object emerging spontaneously from a singularity – or a time-reversed version of a black hole – was introduced by Igor Novikov in 1964, but without referring to it as a white hole. The following year the concept was independently considered by Yuval Ne’eman, who called the object a “lagging core.” The apt name “white hole,” which may first have been used in 1971, soon became popular while “lagging core” was forgotten. Contrary to the black holes, white holes or lagging cores are not believed to exist in nature. They were sometimes called “little bangs,” a term also used with somewhat different connotations (Hoyle 1965; Harrison 1968).'

    —http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1301/1301.0219.pdf

  24. Brandon 2

    ummmm...

    lost me when particles and energy became "information"... which is somehow lost in a black hole? Uh... ok...

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: ummmm...

      a particle is an expression of energy bound by certain rules and parameters. Those rules and parameters take the form of information, therefore particles=information.

      I would like someone to provide me with the probability of a bacon-sandwich suddenly appearing before me so I can input it in to my Bambleweeny 57....thanks.

  25. jrwc

    "Professor Hawking THEORIZES. ." Riddle solved. Oh, you mean its just a theory and not a law of physics yet? What does it matter? Laws are interchangeable with Theories nowadays. Just ask the climate alarmists about their established science, they will tell you.

    1. Tom Maddox Silver badge
      Headmaster

      "its just a theory (sic)"

      You mean, like gravity?

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Wow man, that's heavy.

    2. Bleu

      For jwrc

      They would like to prohibit dissenting views, on pain of persecution and preferably prosecution, maybe a little gratuitous torture if they were really able to express the desires of their lovingly self-righteous and totalitarian-flavoured hearts.

      Most despise science and have never studied it. Doesn't stop them appealing to 'the science' in their little neo-Jacobin campaign.

      Personally, I have no doubt that ripping every last accessible hydrocarbon deposit from the Earth will have disastrous consequences in tandem with the collapse that is inevitable as a result of runaway population growth.

      Having respect for and having studied actual science, I know that nobody has an exact enough science of climate to predict where it will go, except that megacities make horrid heat islands.

      Even there, Japan, including our heat-island capital, Tokyo, has been in the midst of very cool temperatures for August over about ten days, the maximum today was 22 celcius. Forecasts are for it to continue, not so low, but not typical high summer.

      I hate the many recent summers extending into late September, or even October in some years, but am really disturbed by such cool weather in late August.

      My own opinion is instability.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: For jwrc

        Thumbdown for misspelling Celsius. Why do so many people do this, is it because calcium, or what?

    3. E 2

      Should be "Professor Hawking HYPOTHESIZES"

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    RE. Re: ummmm...

    But isn't the principle of the flux capacitor that it reduces the speed necessary to generate a metastable wormhole with a diameter of just under 14 feet (see the technical schematics for the Delorean) from 57% of the speed of light to 88mph and hold it open long enough for the vehicle to make it through in one piece minus the number plate.

    Also this incurs a power usage penalty which is a constant in Dr. E. Brown's field equations of 1.21GW, just under 0.5kg 239Pu or about 0.00000000018% of a ZPM at full charge.

    When the vehicle emerges from hyperspace at the same relative velocity and location but on a different parallel Earth, obviously the energy loss will cause a corresponding decrease in external temperature as is observed.

    In fact the energy loss/gain on each side equals out so E=MC2 would apply causing a big flash of light (tm) at the entry and exit points and probably a fair amount of wideband RF noise.

    More details soon...

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why isn't the black hole and what surrounds the black hole composed of or directed by "information?"

    Then the black hole is tolerant of some information. I would rather ask Who instead of How such information originated. Something or Someone informed the black hole to discriminate as to what it can associate or not associate with. Hawking is not the answer as to who. At least, the black hole has been formed/imagined by the data in Hawking's and others' minds.

  28. Charlie van Becelaere
    Boffin

    In other words

    Zeno was right.

    "The information is not stored in the interior of the black hole as one might expect, but in its boundary – the event horizon," Prof Hawking said. "The idea is the super translations are a hologram of the ingoing particles, thus they contain all the information that would otherwise be lost."

    See - It never gets all the way there. Half-measures and all that.

  29. Wzrd1

    Rather odd, the notion of matter entering the singularity

    Relative to the external universe, anything below the event horizon is frozen in time just below the event horizon or wherever else matter within the collapse was when singularity moved the event horizon out past it.

    So, in theory, most matter "eaten" by the black hole is just below the event horizon.

  30. ShaolinTurbo

    This is nothing new, we all saw General Zod trapped in 2D space in Superman 2.

    I volunteer to be the first person sent into a black hole.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wish his staff would stop posting guesswork like this as his work.

    Plus they could at least show us what they are smoking when they punk the equations with what amounts to Religion for Scientists.

  32. Unicornpiss Silver badge

    Black holes, nature's dynamic RAM

    Information is captured, held, then apparently streamed back... eventually...

    So if a rotating black hole of proper characteristics could possibly be a gateway to another universe, from what type of stellar object does the captured material emerge? Are we actually seeing emergence of matter/energy from other universes into ours and just haven't recognized it as such yet?

  33. Esme

    @Unicompiss - so far as I can make out, anything falling into a black hole ends up inside a unique new 'universe' (ie, 'white hole' = 'big bang') . And, if I understand correctly (hey, I'm no genius, I may be wrong), when they fall into the hole in our universe doesn't matter; two things falling into a black hole a billion years apart as seen from out universe would still exit the big bang at t'other side at the same instant. Whilst the spatial dimensions do some peculiar things as one approaches and goes 'through' a singularity, what happens to time is even more peculiar, and I can't even begin to think about what happens to the other 6 or 7 dimensions I gather are thought to exist acording to current theories, as I frankly don;t understand them. Just messing with the usual 4 is about as much as I can handle. :-}

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Another Country Heard From

    Perhaps 30 years ago, I read in a book by Freeman Dyson the theory that the other side of a black hole is a white hole, spewing matter and/or energy into another location, perhaps another universe. It has been posited that in another universe, the big bang would appear to be a white hole.

    "The concept of a “white hole,” a hypothetical object emerging spontaneously from a singularity – or a time-reversed version of a black hole – was introduced by Igor Novikov in 1964, but without referring to it as a white hole. The following year the concept was independently considered by Yuval Ne’eman, who called the object a “lagging core.” The apt name “white hole,” which may first have been used in 1971, soon became popular while “lagging core” was forgotten. Contrary to the black holes, white holes or lagging cores are not believed to exist in nature. They were sometimes called “little bangs,” a term also used with somewhat different connotations (Hoyle 1965; Harrison 1968).'

    —http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1301/1301.0219.pdf

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