back to article Microsoft kicks off 'Windows as a service' with new Insider build

Less than a month after releasing the General Availability version of Windows 10, Microsoft is back with a brand-new experimental build of the OS for its Windows Insider guinea pigs. Build 10525 started shipping on Wednesday to Windows Insider members who subscribed to the Fast release ring. By comparison, the release version …

  1. Michael B.

    Chrome x64 is broken

    The x64 version of Chrome is broken in 10525 due to some pretty iffy hooking code on the part of Google. For more info see: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=522201#c36

    Uninstalling the x64 build and installing the 32 bit build instead works a treat.

  2. msknight Silver badge

    Compressing and decompressing pages

    I have this nagging thing about trying to decompress a needed page when the memory is already full.

    They've no doubt been working on this, but something makes me feel squicky just thinking about all the possibilities here.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hasn't OSX been doing this for a while?

      Well, since Mavericks. Could be a nice optimisation if it works well

    2. gerdesj Silver badge

      Re: Compressing and decompressing pages

      "They've no doubt been working on this, but something makes me feel squicky just thinking about all the possibilities here."

      Other OSs have been doing this for a while. It can work well but when you've got vast amount of RAM on tap it might not be quite as useful as all that. Trying to explain how Exchange and MSSQL do memory management is going to be a doddle compared to explaining how WiNzRAM and WiNzSwap have "stolen" memory.

      I look forward to seeing their Out Of Memory Killer daem, sorry service, innovation next. Perhaps to be followed by the WinPF firewall innovation.

      But let's face it: Who cares about that? They've innovated colour schemes again or something.

      1. Tom 35 Silver badge

        Re: Compressing and decompressing pages

        The UI is still crap...

        Oh but now you have a choice of 10 shades of brown, 3 shades of green, all with or without corn.

        1. Michael Habel Silver badge

          Re: Compressing and decompressing pages

          And all anyone ever wanted was DirectX 12 to show off that Aero Interface...

      2. Mike Dimmick

        Re: Compressing and decompressing pages

        "I look forward to seeing their Out Of Memory Killer daem, sorry service, innovation next."

        Unlike Linux, Windows never overcommits memory. Every page of memory that is committed has space allocated for it in the page file. If the page file hits its limit, Windows will try to grow it; if it can't grow the page file, it will start telling the user to close some programs.

    3. Dr. Mouse Silver badge

      Re: Compressing and decompressing pages

      I have this nagging thing about trying to decompress a needed page when the memory is already full.

      How is this any different to swap?

      With swap (in simple terms) when a process needs more memory but there is none available, some is written to disk to free up space. When the original process needs that memory back, something else is written to disk and the page recalled.

      With the memory compression system (already implemented on Linux and several other OSes) when a process needs memory but there is none available, a section of memory is compressed and written to another area of memory (some will need to be reserved for writing this). When the original is required, another area is compressed and the page decompressed to the freed area. The only difference is the storage mechanism and the fact that, instead of needing some space on disk reserved for "swap", it needs some space in RAM reserved for the swapping process.

      I think this is aimed more at desktop PCs than servers: A server will generally be specced to have enough RAM for the job it's doing (if the team responsible are doing their job correctly) and will rarely rely on swap. Desktops get given enough for day-to-day running, and will often rely on swap for peak load (often due to bean counters not allowing the small extra amount of cash to be spent).

    4. Phil_Evans

      Re: Compressing and decompressing pages

      Squicky? Why...you mean (egad)...

      Monitoring tools will bark at ballooned address spaces being used by these 'compressed memory' processed?

      The same for the additional Swap (sorry paging file) being used to orchestrate it?

      VMware and other virty 'dynamic resource features will get into race conditions?

      That BSODs may be making a comeback where there's no address space left to un-compress?

      Clustering will get fecked up?

      ...or was it something else entirely?

      (if this ever makes it to WinServ).

      1. Wensleydale Cheese
        Thumb Up

        Re: Compressing and decompressing pages

        "VMware and other virty 'dynamic resource features will get into race conditions?"

        You might have something there. I can't recall the last time I saw this but certainly under Mavericks I was having trouble with VMs that had been idle for several hours being unresponsive.

        Because suspending then resuming VMs in such a state always brought back decent response times, I concluded that compressed memory was indeed causing this, and Activity Monitor stats appeared to confirm this.

  3. GX5000

    Will no one stand up and say no thank you ?

    1. Chris G Silver badge

      No thank you

      Actually I'm still sitting (been a long day).

      Windows as a service?

      They must have spent hundreds of hours in committee meeting tocome up with such an inconsequentially meaningless, noncommittal term so that whatever gets dumped on users will be positive and a service.

      My worry is when my car has a service it usually costs more than the basic service, they always find something extra to charge for.

      Religious services:( in my experience) Christening, try to drown you in a bowl while mumbling spells.

      Marriage, chained for life to someone who sleeps with your (ex)best mate.

      Funeral, set you on fire or throw you down a hole.

      Service the washing machine: if it's not on an expensive annual maintainance scheme, a service will cost more than the bloody thing is worth.

      And so on; Windows as a service from a half formed OS? No Thank You! In spite of being able to change colours, I'll hang on to 7 for the moment ta very much!

      1. Preston Munchensonton
        Coat

        Re: No thank you

        Marriage, chained for life to someone who sleeps with your (ex)best mate.

        That's the upgraded model. The regular model that the rest of us have won't sleep with anyone. Ever.

        1. Chris G Silver badge

          Re: No thank you

          Thanks for that Preston, made me laugh out loud, lucky there was no tea involved.

          I actually got back with my best mate after the divorce, unike the ex he liked pick up trucks, beer and picking up loose women (in the pick up trucksof course).

      2. PiltdownMan

        Re: No thank you

        Yeah, I get all that "Service" stuff that you mentioned, but I am more concerned about Microsoft spying on my every move, more so than Google and Facebook.

        I've dumped Facebook, and returned to a clean build of Windows 8.1 & ClassicShell.

        Happy now!

        1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

          Re: No thank you

          Not going to use W10 at all. But there is a fundamental difference between HooverSoft's Windows 10 and Google, Facebook, et al PCs need an OS to operate as expected and they are unavoidable. Google, Facebook, and cronies are optional services that can largely be avoided if one wants. Heavy duty spyware, aka W10, is troubling because most users do not know how to avoid or replace it. One can avoid Google, for example, by not using their services - they are completely optional even for searching.

          1. Michael Habel Silver badge

            Re: No thank you.... So smart guy

            You think you've managed to deactivate *cough* activate *cough* all the privacy settings on your shiny new Windows 10, that your soooo proud of.. Meanwhile a timer tucked somewhere in the Registry, as not is counting down, to reset all those options back to their default statuses, at at time where you'd least expect it to.... 'cause MicroSoft understands your concerned... But, really since when have MicroSoft Users ever had anything to hide? After all we if we can't trust Microsoft to have our backs then who can we trust?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: No thank you.... So smart guy

              "You think you've managed to deactivate *cough* activate *cough* all the privacy settings on your shiny new Windows 10"

              Or like most people, you have nothing to hide and don't care.

              1. F0rdPrefect

                Re: No thank you.... So smart guy

                Or like most people, you have nothing to hide and don't care

                I think that I'd like to hide my banking passwords, especially from M$ as I don't want the IRS claiming that I ow them money on income already taxed in the UK due to my details being held on a US server.

  4. joed

    You've got served

    and can't even complain, RTFEULA

  5. J J Carter Silver badge
    Windows

    Working well with me. The path to 'Redstone' in 2016 should bring many innovations from MSFT.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      But...

      given the pretty cool reception W10 has had around these parts will anyone want to use these new innovations?

      But hey, go right ahead and use these innovations but be sure to report back here on your experiences.

  6. DJV Silver badge
    Meh

    "now you can change the colors"

    More like "now you can NEARLY change the colors" as there are many apps that ignore the setting!

  7. BruceR

    Insider Hub feedback app?

    "It has also included the Insider Hub feedback app with the build by default,"

    There's an Insider Hub app, and there's a Feedback app, but there is no Insider Hub feedback app.

  8. Jungleland

    Using Win OS X without an MS account?

    "Also, video playback in the Movies & TV app might give you problems until you update the app from the Windows Store."

    Good luck with that one.

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