back to article Windows 10 is FORCING ITSELF onto domain happy Windows 7 PCs

Windows 7 PCs are being force fed a diet of Windows 10, breaking a promise made by Microsoft. The problem is affecting domain-attached Windows 7 PCs not signed up to Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) for patches and updates, but looking for a Microsoft update instead. The upshot is PCs, ranging from 10s to hundreds at a …

  1. nematoad Silver badge
    Facepalm

    A gift horse?

    These companies should not complain. After all this is a "Free" download and they should never look a gift horse in the mouth.

    So what if your business is knocked off-line by this benign DDoS, you should just be grateful and take what you are given,

    /sarcasm

    What a crock of shit.

    1. MarkSitkowski

      Re: A gift horse?

      Having fallen on my head recently, I accepted their gift horse over the weekend. When it wouldn't run the only application for which I use a PC ('Reflection X', which connects me to a Unix box), I hit the Revert to Windows 7 button.

      When Win 7 finally reappeared, there was a gloating note in the corner saying 'This copy of Windows is not genuine'. Restoring backups didn't work, with the smug message 'Your system files were not altered'

      I now have the choice of putting Win 10 back, or forking out for another copy of Win 7, which will probably trash my disk, if past experience is anything to go by.

      How do I get Linux...?

      1. Tom 35 Silver badge

        Re: A gift horse?

        Did you try the phone to activate method? I've has success a few times.

  2. Zippy's Sausage Factory
    Mushroom

    Wonder how many bankruptcies will result

    And how many lawsuits?

    I can imagine there are a few people being shouted at in Redmond today...

    1. Amorous Cowherder
      Happy

      Re: Wonder how many bankruptcies will result

      "I can imagine there are a few people being shouted at in Redmond today..."

      And a whole lot of marketing types out on the razz tonight on the huge bonuses they'll be getting for getting the Win10 install numbers through the roof!

    2. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Re: Wonder how many bankruptcies will result

      I can imagine there are a few people being shouted at in Redmond today...

      It might explain why I've been waiting so long for a support call to be returned (thankfully for a less troublesome problem).

  3. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Keef

      Oi, moiety, what are you thinking?

      Let some magic cure .exe solve all my problems!

      Fuck that.

      Why are you recommending a piece of software you have not used and have no idea what it will do?

      Fortunately El Reg readers will be intelligent enough to ignore the poor advice you have given, please don't post it anywhere else.

      1. Danny 14 Silver badge

        Re: What are you thinking?

        random EXE from a random site recommended by some random internet guy. Seems legit, i'll get a GPO scripted installation up right away.

        1. moiety

          Re: What are you thinking?

          Fair point. Duly withdrawn.

          1. asdf Silver badge

            Re: What are you thinking?

            Up vote for taking the bitter medicine lol.

  4. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Windows

    We haff ways of MAKING you inztall!

    So they DIDN'T sign up for the free download-upgrade (the downlorade?) but are still getting it?

    Very much highly irregular. That's not the ocean you hear, that's a chorus of lawyers.

    1. tony72

      Re: We haff ways of MAKING you inztall!

      I'm surprised if this is true. In testing, I actually manually installed the updates associated with the windows 10 update on a domain-joined Windows 7 Professional test machine, and manually ran the compatibility appraiser thing, and could not get the "Get Windows 10" icon to appear, so I thought it was all good. I'll be mightily unhappy if Windows 10 upgrades happen anyway, but no sign of it so far. I only deal with a handful of machines though.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Flame

      Re: We haff ways of MAKING you inztall!

      This forced 3Gb download is great for people working with a mobile connection.

      Maybe a workaround for Windows 8 is to mark all WiFi connections as metered.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Mushroom

        Re: We haff ways of MAKING you inztall!

        I was wondering if something like this was impacting my machine at the office, my connection to it, and the general sluggishness of the work network. It seemed like a little too much of a coincidence...

        They're stealing our kittens!

  5. Andy Non
    Windows

    YOU WILL HAVE WINDOWS 10 AND LIKE IT.

    IT IS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD.

    /Sarcasm.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: YOU WILL HAVE WINDOWS 10 AND LIKE IT.

      You will be assimilated:

      Not one of us ?

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Pirate

        Re: YOU WILL HAVE WINDOWS 10 AND LIKE IT.

        A:You will be assimilated:

        Q:The Reg contacted Microsoft for comment. We will update you with their response.

  6. Mike 125

    wow

    This has all the makings of total f#king disaster. Slow car crash time. You can somehow just sense it. Updates off, for now.

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: wow

      but on the plus side, moving to WSUS is generally a good idea.

      1. td97402

        Re: wow

        "but on the plus side, moving to WSUS is generally a good idea."

        Not every small shop can afford to set up a WSUS server.

        1. dmacleo

          Re: wow

          if they are already on domain they can, although not best practice, use the DC as wsus much like SBS or essentials servers do.

          if under 25 client pcs manage engine desktop central can also be used as a free software and update control and that has no problems being run on a DC.

          I forced the update on some test vm here on domain yet the upgrade never appeared, 2 minutes after removing from domain (and I do use wsus) the upgrade button appeared.

    2. Hollerith 1

      Re: wow

      So they finally make a

      somethign that people pretty much like, ending the sh~tstorm that was Windows 8/8a, and then they put the shotgun firmly against their other foot and pull the trigger.

      They really do need a Devil's Advocate Department that asks "what could go wrong here?" in every scenario and have the power to be heard.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: wow

        "somethign that people pretty much like, ending the sh~tstorm that was Windows 8/8a"

        I pretty much don't like, reverted to W7Pro when none of my DVD writers were recognised and a whole host of other small problems also appeared. Fortunately it reverted perfectly as far as I can tell. I'll maybe take a look around June 2016, meanwhile W8.1 with Classic Shell or any of the others is perfectly adequate.

      2. msknight Silver badge

        Re: wow

        "They really do need a Devil's Advocate Department"

        ...they don't need one. They already ARE the devil.

  7. Paul Shirley

    also autoticking the upgrade button in Win Update

    Caught the sneak bastards autoselecting 'upgrade to Win10' in the optional updates section of Win Update on both my PCs. Only takes one accident and your PC is infested prematurely. Hiding that update seems to have fixed the problem for now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: also autoticking the upgrade button in Win Update

      "Caught the sneak bastards autoselecting 'upgrade to Win10' in the optional updates section of Win Update on both my PCs."

      That means some of my friends are going to end up with it installed. As removing the KBs was too tricky for ordinary users I just told them not to click on the W10 update icon. I can only hope there is a prompt that makes it clear that W10 is going to install - and that they decline it. If a machine has to come back to be cleaned up then that will cost me £££s as they are all a long way away.

      Linux Mint is now definitely my next project - while W7 keeps my current applications going.

    2. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

      Re: also autoticking the upgrade button in Win Update

      Yes, but KB3035583 comes back again.

      And again.

      And again.

      1. Grade%

        Re: also autoticking the upgrade button in Win Update

        After reading your post I checked my update status and lo what do you know! I had to check and hide one "important" update and one optional update that were only there to thwart my previous commands to not install.

        Also, for the first time EVER, update offered an optional graphics driver from AMD! Now, I know AMD has abandoned my GPU since 2013 and every new driver iteration created the same problem that AMD has refused to fix: Namely, that if the laptop is attached to an external monitor the backlight on the laptop will forever after be disabled until that driver is reverted back to the last known good one.

        So, that means that if you unknowingly install the driver and then, you know, go mobile, you get a black screen when you lift the laptop lid! So, in the interest of Science I installed it and found, no, the laptop screen backlight issue had NOT been fixed. Hung head and restored back to previous version and promptly fired off an emphatic pleading letter to AMD support -- the gist of which was to request that if they were going to let MS handle driver installation then the least they could would be to address the problem they introduced two years ago.

        I predict that shortly there will be a slew of faulty drivers installed in various machines that the users (because they know the manufacturers' progress is often retrograde) will have no option to refuse because the providers have now bedded with MicroSoft to deliver updates that can't be refused!

        double_facepalm.gif

        1. Paul Shirley
          Facepalm

          Re: broken drivers

          I'm looking forward to discovering if my hidden bad driver updates remain hidden after I finally allow Win10 to install (which sadly will be required for work sooner than I'm happy with). Let's just say I'm not optimistic.

    3. joed

      Re: also autoticking the upgrade button in Win Update

      You wished. This update keeps un-hiding itself (and so does Silverlight). It's this important (for MS).

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: also autoticking the upgrade button in Win Update

        You beat me too it... you noticed that also. I'm surprised since I read that Silverlight is going away yet the updates keep trying to install it.

        The price of a happy PC is eternal vigilance against the OS maker.

    4. BongoJoe
      Facepalm

      Re: also autoticking the upgrade button in Win Update

      And people downvoted me when I said that I have turned off my Update Service in W7...

  8. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Windows

    You will be assimilated into windows 10!

    I guess that Redmond is trying to say,

    There is no escaping it is there so why not stop this futile resistance and join the Borg. Once in there is no escape (subscriptions ahead)

    1. Philip Storry

      Re: You will be assimilated into windows 10!

      This Dilbert comic - from January 1997! - seems highly appropriate here:

      http://dilbert.com/strip/1997-01-15

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You will be assimilated into windows 10!

        Is there a way to find old Dilbert cartoons?

        There was also one where Dilbert installed a new application. As part of the install process it said something like

        "Checking for space - deleting applications you don't need any more"

        "Found credit card details - installing new software we think you need".

        1. Hud Dunlap
          Boffin

          Re: You will be assimilated into windows 10!

          Go to Dilbert.com and it has a search function.

        2. DJV Silver badge

          Re: You will be assimilated into windows 10!

          You mean this one: http://dilbert.com/strip/1995-12-29

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: You will be assimilated into windows 10!

            "You mean this one: [...]"

            Yes - thank you for finding it. I will have to look at the site's search facilities for future reference. Phew - 1995! I remembered it was probably a modem connection - but thought it was a few years later.

  9. SteveK

    Not seeing any sign of it here on domain PCs that aren't using WSUS. Whether that's because we use a volume license product code I'm not sure. I do know that non-domain W7 PCs using the same volume license key did come up with the 'register for upgrades' thing, so it's not that in itself that's preventing it.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      I wonder whether having current "Software Assurance" on the licence plays a part.

      (I've noted with one client that all their systems are now running Office 2013, even though we install 2010 on all the laptops...)

      1. SteveK

        (I've noted with one client that all their systems are now running Office 2013, even though we install 2010 on all the laptops...)

        Still have 2010 on the PC that upgraded, although it did seem to knock out the product activation from that so that it was reporting it was unlicensed, and install a 'Get Office' app that promptly needed 50Mb of updates,despite already having Office (just not the shiny version it wants me to have, presumably)

  10. Snow Wombat
    Pint

    blaming slack admins for this one

    Given that WSUS is free, easy to set up and takes up very little space / resources then I kind of have no sympathy for admins who aren't running it.

    But hey, I won't get in the way of a good whine at MS.

    Beer icon because it's Friday and I get to go have a few because I run WSUS, so I don't have to worry about Win 10 issues.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      Enjoy your pint. I'll be having some Harvey's Best later on.

      However, have you given any thought (from your kinda smug POV) about all the small businesses out there that can't afford a proper admin let anone someone to run WSUS?

      I full expect that some of these may well go to the wall because this update has stopped essential applications from running after the upgrade. What do they do then eh?

      One commentator here said 'it will only get worse' a few days ago. I'm pleasantly surprised that the lawsuits (especially in the US) aren't already heading in the direction of MS.

      Pass the popcorn please.

      1. Mage Silver badge
        Angel

        Re: One commentator here said 'it will only get worse' a few days ago

        Probably me and a load of other 'tards.

    2. Martin Summers Silver badge

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      Right now I've got a WSUS server running in a small business just to save on the crap bandwidth coming in. I haven't got the time to actually sit there running it and checking every update right now as it's not my primary job. WSUS is set to pretty much approve every security update and just get on with it as a result. So I totally agree with the comment made about small businesses not being able to afford the sysadmin to sit there and run it because for most of the real world that's what it's like.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      ahhh but your forgetting how WSUS works with win7 clients. Its ok if your clients are LAN based, BUT if you have a large laptop fleet they will (when not on your LAN) try and get to your WSUS server, fail and then they will then try microsoft's windows update site where they will happily find the win10 download! There isn't a way to configure the behaviour of windows update to NOT look to Microsoft when not on the corporate LAN. We have problems with clients going off and downloading IE11 when some of our software will only work with IE10.

      1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

        Re: There isn't a way....

        One way is to edit your Hosts file

        http://superuser.com/questions/363120/block-access-to-windows-update

        1. PNGuinn
          FAIL

          Re: Hosts file...

          Thanks for that from all windows users.

          You've now warned the beast to check and correct everyone's hosts files with such strange anomalies.

          <smug grin>

          Dumped 'em years ago. Never looked back.

          /<smug grin>

    4. eswan

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      >WSUS is free

      And you get what you pay for. Reporting is crap, troubleshooting is

      a nightmare. I've been trying to get approval for Shavlik for 10 years.

      >takes up very little space / resources

      Depending on your definition of 'very little'. 46 gig and a dedicated

      web server instance here, not huge but I wouldn't call it insubstantial.

      >I run WSUS, so I don't have to worry about Win 10 issues

      I also run WSUS, and will be paying very close attention to what

      my clients are doing.

    5. Hellcat

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      Zero sympathy here either. People doing half a job on the cheap causing issues for themselves, or the poor sod who takes over in in the future.

      Putting computers and users into a managed domain then leaving the updates to esentially the consumer arm of Microsoft? If you can't afford to do it properly in the MS model don't do it. Use any of the cheaper or free methods.Use linux. Use local accounts. Same for people losing the last (and only) DC in their AD forest - Let me show you my symapthetic face.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Re: blaming slack admins for this one

        If you can't afford to do it properly in the MS model don't do it.

        Woah. Adding insult to injury.

        Is this the MS-customer version of "she had it coming"?

      2. justausername

        Re: blaming slack admins for this one

        What about the small business that installs Windows Server Essentials... Guess what they are forced into having a domain that they didn't want. Get a life you troll.

    6. Alistair Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      Please don't blame the Slack admins, Patrick V has bugger all to do with MS's crap.

    7. Stephen 11
      Stop

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      WSUS is free... This is not completely true.

      WSUS is "free" IF the client devices you want to connect to the WSUS server are already covered by CALs.

      CALs are required to each device that connects to the WSUS server. If you don't have the required CALS, suddenly WSUS is not so free after all.

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      Given that WSUS is free, easy to set up and takes up very little space / resources then I kind of have no sympathy for admins who aren't running it.

      Bullshit! It requires a 20+GB disk, RAM and CPU dedicated to run a Windows 2008 server on, the license for which is NOT free.

      If it were a tarball that I could download, roll into a .deb package and install on the Linux server here, then I'd agree with you, however, it isn't, which means we'd need to procure hardware and software for a server dedicated to the task of providing this service.

    9. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      I think "Free" belongs in scare quotes, as it requires running a current version of Windows Server. Which is, in fact, the opposite of Free.

      I agree that sites with a on-site sysadmin should deploy WSUS if they are already running the excellent Server 2012, for just the cost of a few hours work and some disk space. People stuck on older server platforms, or without windows servers, or supporting offsite workers, (or how many other scenarios) may have legitimate reasons for their decision to hold off.

      This stings even more as they promised that domain connected windows clients wouldn't auto update to 10. If Windows 10 is launching on time but half-baked, perhaps it would be a smarter marketing strategy to hold off on the "Long March" upgrade push untill they fix a few things?

    10. Halfmad

      Re: blaming slack admins for this one

      Then again it could be argued that if they don't have the money for a reasonable (free) infrastructure) then they're getting a more secure OS free.

      I'm struggling to see why so many are up in arms about an upgrade that you have to opt in to get to begin with which is free, more secure, doesn't require retraining (despite what the linux/mac fanboys say).

      It's just the usual el'reg MS flame, nothing new just a slightly different topic, last time it was Windows 8.. now it's windows 10.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wonder....

    ...how "automatically" blocked they are? Is it blocked UNLESS the user decides to go off and "sign up" to the install, i.e. tick the box saying they want it?

  12. Roland6 Silver badge
    Pint

    "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

    A song for MS:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDc_5zpBj7s

    (Lyric's here for those without sound or on low speed connections: http://www.directlyrics.com/meghan-trainor-lips-are-moving-lyrics.html)

    1. VinceH Silver badge

      Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

      Well that's annoyingly catchy. I even let it play all the way through. I take it that's what 'the kids' are listening to these days?

      (As an aside, it's nice to see the singer isn't a skinny little wretch leading her fans to go on pointless diets)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

        So overweight is a better role model than underweight?

        I'd rather have a healthy-weighted active person as the role model myself...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

          I don't have any problem with her weight.

          I do, however, have a problem with autotune.

          If you can't sing, choose a different career.

          1. keithpeter
            Childcatcher

            Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

            "I do, however, have a problem with autotune."

            It has become used as an *effect* deliberately I gather from younger people I speak to. Like vo-coders in the 80s.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. Toastan Buttar

            Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

            Meghan Traynor has a fantastic natural voice. If she ever uses Autotune, it would only be for an obvious effect.

        2. VinceH Silver badge

          Re: "And it’s all happening despite Microsoft promising – here – that it wouldn’t."

          I'd guesstimate that she's around a size 11 or 12. Overweight? Perhaps, but if she is it's only mildly so - and as such, she's a far better role model than some skeleton with a bit of skin stretched over it.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They won't get in any trouble over this

    I bet MS won't get in any trouble over this.

    Unless it actually installs itself without any user interaction, they will just claim it's an optional update that you can choose not to install. If it downloads itself that's pretty bad as it's wasting bandwidth for people who don't want it. But unless it actually installs without the user knowing (impossible really) then they'll probably get away with it.

    If you follow the installation procedure, you're agreeing to install it, and knowingly doing so, as far as they're concerned.

  14. Frank N. Stein

    Looks like I may indeed end up having to support Windows 10 sooner, rather than later. Good thing I got the upgrade on launch day and am familiar with it. As for Microsoft breaking it's promise, that was to be expected. Most competent shops should be pointing all of their PC's to WSUS server and should've had this under control, but if this is happening to domain connected PC's that are pointed to internal WSUS server, then this is going to be a nightmare for Microsoft and anyone who has to support Windows Networks.

    1. Bob Dole (tm)

      >>Most competent shops should be pointing all of their PC's to WSUS server and should've had this under control...

      It has very little to do with competence on the part of the shops and a lot to do with resources. A large number of businesses are of the small variety. I'd wager to say that the vast majority of businesses out there are.

      Would you advocate that a small business who runs say less than 20 PCs should have a WSUS server sitting in the corner? My business doesn't have *any* server on site - and we're a development shop. Everything we do is hosted. Source control, documents, email, etc - all hosted. So I don't even have a spare machine to run some dank program whose only job would have been to stop this one update.

      On every single one of our machines we said No to the update. We uninstalled the KB that even asks for the update. Yet, every single one of our machines have downloaded windows 10 in the background and demanded to install itself.

      Not only do I not want Windows 10 ( 7 has been perfect ), but with it's insane privacy policies and the agreements we have with our customers I'm not 100% certain that we could continue to conduct business if we install it.

      This is a just complete BS and certainly makes me start to rethink our adherence to their platform.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        can you elaborate?

        "Not only do I not want Windows 10 ( 7 has been perfect ), but with it's insane privacy policies and the agreements we have with our customers I'm not 100% certain that we could continue to conduct business if we install it."

        I raised that issue with my boss, and while he said he turned all of the (known) reporting settings off, he doesn't think its an issue for our relationships with our clients...

        1. Bob Dole (tm)

          Re: can you elaborate?

          Our agreements with our clients forbid us from ever letting their information out of our direct control.

          So, let's say one of my support people pulls some customer data out of the app to a local excel file in order to work through issues. MS claims that with Windows 10 they will pull even private files and push them up to their cloud for essentially whatever reason they want.

          At the point this occurs we're in breach because we've let that data go to a third party. Now I don't foresee people suing about this particular thing. However if a large contract ever gets to the point that lawyers need to be involved and the other side's attorneys are aware of what Windows 10 does under the covers then my company is screwed.

          Given how MS tried their best to hide those privacy settings, it would be trivial for a machine to be set up where the person doing the installation accidentally skipped it.

          Yeah, sorry, but we're not going to get on that bus with MS.

        2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

          Re: can you elaborate?

          The problem is not you clicked the settings once but whether MS will reset them (partially at least) in the future without your knowledge. If they disrespect business customer's needs now why should one expect their behavior to be better in the future.

  15. Calum Morrison

    They're sneaky even to WSUS users

    MS seem to keep "improving" the update kbs (for there are several) and re-releasing them; I've had to reject them several times now on my WSUS server. Anyone not paying attention could accidentally approve them.

    It's bad enough having my creatives whining every five minutes that Adobe have farted out an absolutely-must-have 300Gb update to CC ("because all the companies we share files with already upgraded last night and now we have compatibility issues!") without having the same from MS. Happy Friday everyone.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Flame

      Re: They're sneaky even to WSUS users

      These KBs are just being downloaded time and time again...

      KB3035583 - GWX Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1

      KB2952664 - Compatibility update for upgrading Windows 7

      KB2976978 - Compatibility update for Windows 8.1 and Windows 8

      KB3021917 - Update to Windows 7 SP1 for performance improvements

      KB3022345 - Telemetry [Replaced by KB3068708]

      KB3068708 - Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry

      I suppose the way around for home users is to install WSUS on their own computer at home. Should this really be necessary?

      As I ranted before, the fuckers have turned Windows Update into Coupon Monkey adware.

      1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

        @Dan 55, re: KBA list.

        Thank you for that list of KBA's to watch for. I'd already found most of them, clicked the "More Information" link, learned that they were MS attempting to shove Win10 up my arse, & disabled them with extreme prejudice. Then I went through the already installed updates Just To Be Sure & uninstalled the ones I'd missed.

        I was already wary of "upgrading" before MS irons out all the bugs & bullshit, so for them to keep pushing to get it installed just makes me resist even more. I've already configured WinUpDate to merely let me know that updates are available but NOT to download them (much less auto-apply them) so I can manually determine which updates (if any) get applied. I'm getting seriously Sick & Fekkin Tired of having to deny all the attempts to force an upgrade on me, and I wish there were a way to send a few trillion amps back through the network to zot the pricks that think this forced-upgrade-idea is a good idea.

        *Sigh*

      2. dkersten

        Re: They're sneaky even to WSUS users

        Those are all KB's for the reservation or prep files, but so far I haven't found a KB that is 3+ gigs in size, so which one is forcing the 3+ gig download? If you go to a computer that is downloading it, you can see the update icon in the tray and if you arrow over it you can see it is downloading, but you can't click it or change it. If you open windows updater it isn't there, and it acts like nothing else is going on at all. There is no installed KB for the download either, and since it doesn't show up at all in the list of updates available, there is no way to hide it or stop it.

        I know windows updater is downloading it because the icon and because I can do a net stop wuauserv and it will stop downloading, but as soon as updater is started again it starts downloading again.

        I have read hundreds of posts from people troubleshooting this but nobody has found the KB for the download yet. Perhaps you see more if you have WSUS installed and set up? You certainly can't do anything on the client side. Once it starts, you can either stop the updater completely or ride it out.

      3. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

        Re: They're sneaky even to WSUS users

        "I suppose the way around for home users is to install WSUS on their own computer at home. Should this really be necessary?"

        There's also WSUS Offline

        I've used this in the past to update systems on slow broadband connections and it worked well for that, but I have no idea if it's up to the job of squashing the Win10 update related patches.

    2. Mpeler
      Pint

      Re: They're sneaky even to WSUS users

      "Adobe have farted out an absolutely-must-have 300Gb update to CC"....

      Have a beer (or a few). That made my day.

      Between "Flush", "Acrobat-ty" and "Creative Crud" I'm getting tired of all the updates and patches, and now it seems M$ want to do it behind my back as well. Oh, Joy.....

  16. J J Carter Silver badge
    Boffin

    I thought Windows 10 in-built P2P network prevented gobbling of t'internet bandwidth as machines on the LAN shared out the MSFT goodness?

    1. Mage Silver badge
      Devil

      thought Windows 10 in-built P2P network prevented gobbling of t'internet

      After Win7 is wiped. This is running on Win7

      But probably that system has bugs anyway...

    2. dkersten

      the p2p thing stops updates from gobbling up MS's bandwidth, but shifts it to the consumers. Unless you disable it, your bandwidth (once using windows 10) is feeding updates to other consumers. As stated though, this download is not in windows 10, it is the files for windows 10 that MS is shoving down our throats, with no way to stop it once started and it is happening even to computers on domain controllers, even though it isn't supposed to.

  17. MrXavia

    And I have the evil windows 8.1 but it won't download and install windows 10...

    ironic that many get it who don't want it,but I want it but can't get it... (seriously windows 10 HAS to be better than 8.1)

    1. Hellcat

      Did you try downloading and running the update tool?

      http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

      1. MrXavia

        Not yet, I will be giving that a try shortly.....

        I wonder who gave me the thumbs down... a windows 8 Fan?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "I wonder who gave me the thumbs down... a windows 8 Fan?"

          No, a logic Nazi who knows that the statement that W10 has to be better than W8 is hyperbolic - there is no physical law that requires iteration n+1 of any Microsoft (or indeed any) product to be better than iteration n. In fact Hutber's Law of Economics states "Improvement causes deterioration."

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "I wonder who gave me the thumbs down... a windows 8 Fan?"

            Did you mean N+2?

            1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

              Re: "I wonder who gave me the thumbs down... a windows 8 Fan?"

              Did you mean N+2?

              No, the Windows version-numbering system is base-9.

        2. joed

          probably someone who thinks that the "cure" is worse than the disease.

          8.1 may be far from perfect but has much fewer privacy tradeoffs compared to 10. Myself (on 8 and 8.1) I'm not planning to move (and keep fighting the nag). Good start menu replacement (if needed) is actually better from what 10 has to offer

      2. dmacleo

        I forced that on on domain joined wsus controlled win7 pro machine and am on win 10 now.

        and the win7 pro license was a technet license too.

        seems when on domain the install choices don't just default to the express installs and updates are not blindly applied either.

        so somewhat good news I guess.

        if acronis 2015 with parallels access installed need to uninstall parallels to get classic shell to work.

        been using it for 3-4 days 14-18 hours a day and I a fairly ambivalent about it.

        do need to take a few moments to run a query on the wsus machine to make it so win10 machines stop listing as vista installed, however even with that wsus is rolling out the correct win10 updates to it.

        biggest complaint I have so far is no rsat for win 10 yet and forcing versions that worked on the previews does not work.

        so as it stands I guess I would not have issue with clients being on win 10 but I would not waste time trying to force them to win10.

        but I am small domain here, 6 clients here and 9 at the church I volunteer at.

  18. The Alphabet

    So the only way to absolutely guarantee to not get forced to Windows 10 (or even have the option to be prompted to it, blocked or not) is to downgrade to Vista?

    1. Hellcat

      That won't guarantee anything.

      You must return your PC equipment to the place of purchase, sell all your wordly goods, give away the money to charity and move to a uninhabited island in a remote location. Scotland for example.

      1. PNGuinn
        Linux

        That won't guarantee anything. @Hellcat

        Or install Mint. Or Debian or...

        The way this is unfolding I wonder how many small and not so small shops will begin to ask serious questions about how much they really need microsoft.

        1. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

          Re: That won't guarantee anything. @Hellcat

          "The way this is unfolding I wonder how many small and not so small shops will begin to ask serious questions about how much they really need microsoft."

          At the end of the day it boils down to risk control and being able to manage that risk yourselves.

          Microsoft have clearly demonstrated here that they don't really give a monkeys how they might disrupt your business, at which point I am forced to look elsewhere so that I can continue to manage risk.

        2. John Tserkezis

          Re: That won't guarantee anything. @Hellcat

          "The way this is unfolding I wonder how many small and not so small shops will begin to ask serious questions about how much they really need microsoft."

          Unfortunately, the smaller the shop, the less likely they're going to be aware of *nix options, irregardless if it works out for the better.

    2. Col_Panek

      You can upgrade to Linux instead.

      1. dkersten

        "You can upgrade to Linux instead."

        And who pays to train my 135 employees who have to call in and ask for their password because they didn't know what caps lock was for? You actually think throwing a whole different OS at them is going to help anyone other than the administrators? It's a great theory, right up until you think about actually applying it.

        The irony is the same thing goes for windows 10.. MS thinks it's a great idea to reinvent the GUI every couple years, but when you have 10, 100, 1,000 or more employees who aren't technologically capable to begin with, what company would spend the money to retrain and support the changes that often? I still know of a lot of companies on windows XP simply because the cost to train and reprogram custom apps is ten times the cost of upgrading the OS/hardware. I *might" make the change to windows 10 before the window for the free upgrade is up, but at this point I have no resources or time for a major change like that.

        1. nematoad Silver badge

          Wot.

          " You actually think throwing a whole different OS at them is going to help anyone other than the administrators?"

          Oh you mean like Windows 8 for example?

          1. dkersten

            Re: Wot.

            "" You actually think throwing a whole different OS at them is going to help anyone other than the administrators?""

            "Oh you mean like Windows 8 for example?"

            That's exactly what I mean. Windows 8, 8.1, 10... I spent 3 years transitioning from XP to Win 7, and that wasn't too terrible because the interfaces are nearly identical with only some minor graphics changes to the start button. I wish it still said "start" because every single day someone calls in and I say "OK, click the start button and..." and get interrupted with "What's the start button?" "Oh, I mean the start orb." "The what?" "That blue button on the bottom left of your computer screen."

            If I could just get employees who understand the button on the bottom left is the 'start' button (and have them understand the difference between right and left clicks) I would eliminate 50% of the time spent on trouble calls.

            Every few weeks I scour eBay looking for license keys for Office 2010 because I am NOT going to retrain people to use 2013 (or deal with all the bugs it has), and I sure as hell am not going to rent Office from MS for 3x what it costs to own it for 4 years.

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

        3. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

          The problem with Linux is not general usability but with the specific packages that have not Linux version or usable work around. Plus most MS "power users" would actually need to learn how to use a computer properly.

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Well currently an XP system with Windows Update enabled hasn't shown any sign of GWX or Win10, but then this may change if MS decides Win10 shows signs of failing to overtake XP's market share...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Right - I just double-checked that I had disabled "Automatic Updates" and "Background Intelligent Transfer" Services :)

    4. This post has been deleted by its author

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The noose tightens

    Are M$ forcing a download or a download + install of win 10?

    I don't want something that I know will have hidden costs.

    I like win 7, is has advertising free software (mostly) with no optional add-on badger-ware.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And consumers pay again for a Microsucks defect

    Oh and BTW, the latest update is also defective. Only a fool would down grade to WIN10.

  21. Mage Silver badge
    Windows

    Win 7

    Where are legitimate copies of Win7 for sale?

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Win 7

      You can get unused OEM version under the table for $$$.

      In enterprise sector, there is no problem though. Just order "Windows 7".

    2. WolfFan Silver badge

      Re: Win 7

      Where are legitimate copies of Win7 for sale?

      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416806&cm_re=windows_7-_-32-416-806-_-Product

      http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5213933&csid=_61

      There are other places, I'm sure. You can even find XP available for sale if you look hard enough. Your guess is as good as mine as to whether or not it'll install and what happens when you try to activate it.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    tenforums.com

    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

    ; Created by: Shawn Brink

    ; http://www.tenforums.com

    ; Tutorial: http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/6596-get-windows-10-icon-remove-taskbar-windows-7-8-1-a.html

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]

    "DisableGwx"=dword:00000001

    Just save the above to a reg file and banish Windows 10 for good....

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: tenforums.com

      Try also...

      HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate

      DWORD: DisableOSUpgrade = 1

      And disabling CEIP.

      Seems to return everything as it was before.

      1. dkersten

        Re: tenforums.com

        disabling the DisableOSUpgrade does NOT stop the download once it starts. I have confirmed this on two computers. Removing all KB's associated with the win10 upgrade doesn't stop it either, and I can't find an actual KB that the download is associated with.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: tenforums.com

          There's also...

          HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade

          DWORD: ReservationsAllowed = 0

          If you set that to 0, wipe the C:\$WINDOWS.~BT folder, and restart, maybe that will do it?

          1. dkersten

            Re: tenforums.com

            I'll give it a try, but my fear has been if I wipe the temp folder it will just start over and prolong the agony. I have a few downloading at a couple branches right now, I will give this a shot.. after lunch :) Thanks!

        2. Dan 55 Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: tenforums.com

          If you've uninstalled everything else to do with Windows 10 but the 3Gb iso still keeps downloading then that probably means it's a BITS job.

          If BITS doesn't give up after deleting the folder then you'd need to brush up on your PowerShell to kill the job.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: tenforums.com

            Does method 2 steps 1 and 2 from the accepted answer stop the update? I assume if the registry keys are set the download won't restart afterwards.

            http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-update/downloading-windows-update-stuck-at-0/cdb1a9be-7e4c-4de2-8e4b-47379d6a3d9a

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: tenforums.com

              I tried this at home, seems pretty thorough if somewhat painful to remove all the tasks and registry entries completely.

              http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/windows-7-to-10-gwx-how-to-remove.html

              10 is completely virus like now, appalling behavior on domain registered machines.

              I try not to wish people ill, but, I wonder if cleansing by immersion in lava is a way forward for the MS goons who thought this was a good idea?

              I really don't think 10 is suitable for business, would you be comfortable knowing your doctor, bank manager, accountant, insurance company and everyone else you deal with uploading your full private information constantly to MS?

              It's a joke and I hope they reap what they sow.

  23. ma1010 Silver badge
    Linux

    Time to work on that exit strategy

    Like many others on El Reg forums, I've been planning to switch to Linux and run Windows 7 in Virtualbox for those few "must have" Windows programs. But I was planning to take my time - after all Windows 7 is good for a few more years. Now it looks like I'll need to move faster on this to protect my Windows 7 install from the Windows 10 DOWNgrade.

    1. Col_Panek

      Re: Time to work on that exit strategy

      Don't get mad, get even. I left years ago, and the door didn't hit me in the ass.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    So just to confirm: you have to run and administer something additional from Microsoft (WSUS) that you didn't want and didn't have time for to stop getting something additional from Microsoft (Windows 10) that you don't want and don't have time for.

    I can't begin to describe the level of epic fail this embodies.

    1. Captain DaFt

      "I can't begin to describe the level of epic fail this embodies."

      It's all in the point of view.

      For Microsoft, they see this as a win, since it'll give them the massive download numbers for Win10 that they can use to crow about "rapid uptake" of Win10 in the user world.

      Never mind it's unwanted, and either goes uninstalled or rolled back if it accidentally gets installed, that doesn't bother them.

      You're still using some version of Windows. (Win-win!)

  25. Conrad Longmore
    Facepalm

    How to detect and stop it..

    All our corporate computers are joined to a domain and are managed by WSUS. However, a small number of laptops (about 0.5%) managed to initiate the download despite having policies to block running the GWX component in place. It looks like the process might have triggered when the laptops were outside of our corporate environment. We spotted the unusual traffic before it became a problem.

    If you log your internet traffic, then searching for "10240.16384.150709-1700" is useful to reveal who is downloading Windows 10 components on your network.

    Microsoft have some new guidance on how you can block the OS upgrade here:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265

    1. dkersten

      Re: How to detect and stop it..

      "https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3050265"

      The new group policy from that kb3050265 might stop it from starting a download, but I have verified on two computers that it will not stop if the download already started.

  26. Bob Dole (tm)
    Mushroom

    More than a little mad

    We told Windows that we didn't want this via the little flag thing in the icon tray.

    We then turned off the Windows 10 notice by uninstalling the KB.

    And the damned thing still tried to upgrade our machines.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    how about a reference?

    This has all the credibility of "my mate knows a bloke wot overhead some geezer down the pub say..."

    How about a single reference or link to support this?

    Yet all the haters jump on the bandwagon and treat this as fact. Pretty sad...

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: how about a reference?

      Prior probability of this being true: >0.8.

      The rest follows.

    2. dkersten

      Re: how about a reference?

      I don't know what kind of reference you want, but I have been fighting this for a week now and I can assure you it is very real and a major pain in my ass. Thankfully for laptop users it has not cost me anything as I have enough padding in my shared data to absorb the added usage, but a lot of consumers are going to get a surprise on their next cell phone bill when they find they inadvertently used 3+gb of bandwidth with their hotspot/tether.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: how about a reference?

        Thankfully for laptop users it has not cost me anything as I have enough padding in my shared data to absorb the added usage, but a lot of consumers are going to get a surprise on their next cell phone bill when they find they inadvertently used 3+gb of bandwidth with their hotspot/tether.

        This is probably my biggest gripe, people will click on this, not knowing the full ramifications of the decision. I know people who have a 1GB quota as their only Internet service. Plans like this one because all they use the Internet for is to check the occasional email.

        So that "free" operating system update, according to that plan, would cost them about $55 in quota ($25 for the first 1GB, then $30 for the remainder).

        I predict a nasty surprise over the coming months.

  28. psychonaut

    can someone clarify please:

    1) that this effects ONLY PC's that are attached to a domain

    if not,

    2) if they arent attached to a domain and they have declined the offer of the win 10 upgrade or not responded to it does it

    2a) download the "update"

    2b) download the update and offer it as an optional update

    2c) download the update and offer it as an critical or recomended update

    2d) download it and install it anyway

    sorry, but its not clear from the article (to me anyway). thanks for your help.

    1. psychonaut

      Re: can someone clarify please:

      im assuming 1) must be true, because i have at least 800 client PC's on win 7 and not on a domain, and i havent heard a peep from anyone, but it would be good to get clarification....

    2. dkersten

      Re: can someone clarify please:

      I have 135 pcs NOT on a domain, not using volume licensing, and several dozen have been downloading this file without the user being aware.

      I can't verify that the download won't start if you have removed the "583" kb, but I CAN verify that it will start if you have not reserved a copy or even opened the windows icon for the reservation.

      I CAN verify that once the download starts, removing all KBs mentioned here does not stop it, it will start back up as long as windows updater is running.

      I also CAN verify that this is not optional and there is no easy way to opt out or tell it to stop.

      So far, the only things that stop the download (once started) are shutting down the windows update service completely (net stop wuauserv at an elevated command prompt) or unplugging from the internet.

      I am assuming, from other posts, that if you have volume licensing, this is not happening. It wasn't supposed to happen with any client connected to a domain either, but that is not the case.

      1. psychonaut

        Re: can someone clarify please:

        hi dkersten, thanks for your response, i appreciate it. if we can continue to communicate through the this thread that would be great

        For me, all the licenses are win 7 home prem or pro, OEM or refurb on my clients machines, so NONE of them are volume. (they are all home users or one man band / small businesses)

        "I CAN verify that it will start if you have not reserved a copy or even opened the windows icon for the reservation."

        you mean the download right? but does that mean that it starts to run?

        if not, does it show itself as an update?

        if so, which kind?

        if they have updates set to automatic will it install the win 10 upgrade?

        1. dkersten

          Re: can someone clarify please:

          I will try to keep checking this forum and the article for a fix, and as long as I see replies I will reply back :) It's taking some 10-50 minutes to get my posts through moderation though, lol.

          "you mean the download right? but does that mean that it starts to run?"

          It will NOT run automatically unless you reserved it specifically or chose to install it. The download is the problem here, it is happening without any interaction from the user even if the upgrade is not reserved.

          "if not, does it show itself as an update? if so, which kind?"

          The download does not show up as an update, but it uses the updater to download (and the updater uses BITS). Even after download, I have not found a KB that refers to the download, so I can't uninstall it or hide it or prevent it from downloading on other machines.

          "if they have updates set to automatic will it install the win 10 upgrade?"

          As long as the windows updater is running, it could start the download. I am unsure if it will start if updates are turned off or set to manual only but the updater is still running (process is wuauserv).

          1. psychonaut

            Re: can someone clarify please:

            Dk. Thanks for that. Really appreciate it. 99 percent of customers on non-metered connections so no problem. Have a great night.

            1. psychonaut

              Re: can someone clarify please:

              hi dk and anyone else who cares....

              no problems reported today, bar 3 people who were new customers to me, who had decided to upgrade to 10 and it borked their machines.

              i think this is really constrained to a small portion of domain machines, not a single call from any of my, at least for sure 650 win 7 customers definately not on domain (data taken from hosted security platform that tells me what os they use) , probably more in the realm of over 1k machines as not everyone has seen the light of not using notron or mcafee....

              hope everyone else is ok...sleep well!

  29. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    FAIL

    Makes me glad

    I switched off the auto-update on the laptops, along with the immortal phrase yelled out across the factory:

    "What w***er re-enabled the f***ing windows updates on these laptops..... our software only works on win7 and has'nt been approved for that p.o.s that is win10"

    Seriously though

    If win10 manages to install itself, can I roll back to win7 or (god help me) 8

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Makes me glad

      "If win10 manages to install itself, can I roll back to win7 or (god help me) 8"

      The best thing about W10 is that the rollback worked (W7, haven't tried 8.1, not going to.)

    2. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Makes me glad

      " switched off the auto-update on the laptops, along with the immortal phrase yelled out across the factory: ..."

      I had auto-update firmly switched off on my 8.1 system, but the first time I hid KB3035583, Windows Update sneakily changed it to auto-update again.

      Q: If I do allow the download and then refuse the Windows 10 EULA, will it stop pestering me?

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Makes me glad

      "If win10 manages to install itself, can I roll back to win7 or (god help me) 8"

      Yes, provided you do it within the 30 day grace period the licence should be transferred back.

      I noticed that the current version of WebUser ( http://www.webuser.co.uk/issue-376-out-weds-29-july ) is advising on it's front cover not to upgrade! However, inside it does include information about how to go about the rollback, although I would expect the information is also out on the web.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What about

    The poor folks who are on 1GB/month/etc phone or dongle tariffs just for low bandwidth email and internet with graphics turned off and shared over WiFi.

    3GB is going to murder the allowance and run up some truly heinous bills in some cases, with £1/10MB over being not uncommon.

    This is pure evil M$, please tell me that Windows 7 Starter isn't going to do this or I am going to be DDoSing them right back, the bandwidth leeching SOBs that they are.

    (yes I am aware that threatening a DDoS is technically illegal but I speak for the Silent Majority here and besides they would run out of prison space inside of an hour if they tried to lock up every single M$ critic)

    This is worse than the Android phones that upon first use eat an entire GB just downloading the latest firmware even if you put said firmware on a blasted memory card first. FFS Spamsung Note 4 you just cost me £7 already :-( :-(

  31. Col_Panek

    Same old story

    Download "freeware", get enslaved in a botnet. But this company isn't Russian.

  32. eswan

    From the kb3050265 update--

    "--General improvements are made to support upgrades to a later version of Windows."

    "--This update installs a new Group Policy object that enables you to block upgrades"

    Can I get one without the other?

  33. dkersten

    Gray hairs

    Yes, this has plagued me this whole week, and I have been hammering the internet looking for a fix. None of the computers on my DC have started it yet, but I talked to an admin with 500 machines on his DC and dozens of them had started the download. I have heard anywhere from 3 gb to 6.5gb in size once downloaded.

    My own network is far from complete, mostly remote (135 computers) and I have not spent the money yet to hire an administrator to complete the domain network and manage all those computers. I get by just fine usually without the added costs, although I have slowly worked toward building the infrastructure to support a full AD network. I already work 50-60 hours a week and I have a hundred other projects on my plate that take precedence over something that will save me some time once in a while. I could come up with excuses for not having a full MS network all day long, and while they are very legitimate, it doesn't matter. If I were a home user on a Wi-Fi hotspot on my cell phone browsing facebook and checking my email and found I used 3 gigs of bandwidth at a cost of $50-100 in overages, I would be ready to sue. In my case, I have the potential for this to happen with ~60 employees, and on top of this I have had to limit internet bandwidth and spend several hours troubleshooting why 14 of my remote locations are suddenly saturated to 100% and my employees can't access our ERP software effectively. Most of my remote locations are on T-1's with 1.5 mbps.. When 4 computers suddenly start downloading a 3 gb file, it doesn't leave any room for doing business.

    The thing that is really unacceptable here is there is NO WAY to stop it once it starts, short of turning off windows update completely (stopping the wuauserv service). I have removed any and all KBs associated with the update, nothing. The download message is in the tray with the update icon, but you can't click it and if you open windows update, it isn't there to stop, hide, or modify. I have also modified the registry entry that was added that changes group policy on the computer to enable the new "don't install a new OS" option. The download still restarts after 10-20 minutes and doesn't stop until it is finished.

    I have heard rumors that MS has throttled the download so it doesn't eat up all your bandwidth, and so far I am seeing that in my remote locations (half the max bandwidth is eaten up, not 100%).

    Supposedly NOTHING for windows 10 should happen if you are connected to a domain controller, have volume licensing, or run your own WSUS server. I have verified that when connected to a domain controller it will still download the file. I can't speak for the other conditions.

    As much as I wouldn't trust some random .exe that is supposed to fix this, in reality that is exactly what I need: a simple script or executive file I can send to my laptop users and remote desktop users to run that kills this download if in progress, and if not started yet, removes any and all Windows 10 update notices, downloads, updates, or reservations.

    At this point the only viable solution I have available is to limit internet bandwidth, maybe edit group policy on individual computers to slow BITS down during business hours, and just ride it out for the next sever weeks during the peak of my busy sales season. Hopefully some lawsuits will get started by people who have been monetarily affected and MS will release a fix.exe program to stop it from getting worse. I think I have aged another year this week with the stress of dealing with this BS.

    1. psychonaut

      Re: Gray hairs

      im posting this again in case you didnt see the reply to your reply on my initial post.....please reply...we have similar set ups

      hi dkersten, thanks for your response, i appreciate it. if we can continue to communicate through the this thread that would be great

      For me, all the licenses are win 7 home prem or pro, OEM or refurb on my clients machines, so NONE of them are volume. (they are all home users or one man band / small businesses)

      "I CAN verify that it will start if you have not reserved a copy or even opened the windows icon for the reservation."

      you mean the download right? but does that mean that it starts to run?

      if not, does it show itself as an update?

      if so, which kind?

      if they have updates set to automatic will it install the win 10 upgrade?

      1. psychonaut

        Re: Gray hairs

        ive just remoted into one of the many machines...its a win 7 pro OEM. i have run windows update, checked for new updates and it doesnt mention the win 10 download package. it still has the "upgrade to 10" system tray icon. that machine definitely has NOT been told to download the update, and looks like it wont. i realise that this is a pitifully small sample size though...

        1. psychonaut

          Re: Gray hairs

          more info, on the machine i was talking about above,

          i have kb's ready for install

          2574819

          2592687

          2830477

          2952664

          3048761

          3064209

          3075851

          its kb2952664 that worries me, but its only 6 mb, so cant be the huge win 10 update.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Gray hairs

            You may be able to block it by adding windowsupdate.microsoft.com to your local hosts file as 127.0.0.2

            or run nslookup and then block those addresses at your firewall. Of course, depending on your config:

            1) WSUS or not

            2) download from WSUS or direct

            3) lots of laptops that are often offsite

            you could cause other problems.

            1. psychonaut

              Re: Gray hairs

              appreciate that but i cant do it, theres no rmm just remote support. before anyone slags this of, this is what (very)small business IT is like, well for me anyway.

              some pc's, a mac, a laptop, maybe a nas box. dropbox, teamviewer, carbonite, hosted security etc.fuck me, theyd be using norton and backing up every 12 months if they remembered using a permanently connected usb disk if it wasnt for me. they dont have any money to spend on "frivolous IT". they dont realise it runs their businesss....my mission is to convince them otherwise.....ive saved many of them from being fucked simply by getting them to appreciate what a backup is.

              anyway, im not here to defend my practices, just realise that not everyone has a domain or servers, or more importantly, money. it works well for me and my customers for the last 11 years. anyways, im not in for fight, this isnt a fault with the ways things are. noone fits parachutes to cars in case they fall off a cliff.

              cars have just started falling off cliffs.

              i cant call 6 or seven hundred seperate customers to say "can i please remote into your machine" and block windows update, it would take a month, and another to reverse it.

              this is not the time to slag people off, its the time to help each other.

              as far as i can see and from what i havent heard, there is no problem

              would be interested in what others have to say, any reports of non domain win 7 oem / refurb PC's automatically installing, without asking for it, windows 10.

              can anyone give nay details on wether they have hd these type of machines auto - upgraded?

              1. psychonaut

                Re: Gray hairs

                and theodore and dk, i wasnt referring to you - i know you are trying to help, im just reading the other stuff out there on this thread.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Unhappy

                Re: Gray hairs

                @psychonaut (FOTN fan?) It may very soon get to the stage where you do have to call your 600 or so clients and explain to them that their unwillingness to see IT spending and knowledge as a strategic and operational necessity is now potentially going to cost them their businesses and certainly their money, time and privacy, like it or not.

                If you run a small business and you run Windows, you are now toast.

                Psychonaut and others, I do appreciate you are trying to help your customers, but for every one well meaning person like yourselves, Microsoft has 100s of amoral wage slave programmers trying to thwart what you're doing. Windows 10 is too important to Microsoft to allow people like you and your customers to stand in the way. Microsoft is like a rabid dog chewing its own back legs off to try and quench the thirst and hunger. How can you stand up against that?

                Your best bet is to explain to your customers that it's now simply impossible to support their IT choices and you will help them to move onto another platform. A lot of heartache and a lot of learning I know, but you bet heavily on an outcome that didn't happen. We've all been there. Cut your losses and good luck with those calls.

                1. psychonaut

                  Re: Gray hairs

                  I havent had a single call about this yet. (Its Now sunday). Tomorrow will be the proof of the pudding but so far theres no issues that i know of. I hope it stays that way...will let you all know if that changes.

                  1. nematoad Silver badge
                    Thumb Up

                    Re: Gray hairs

                    "Tomorrow will be the proof of the pudding but so far theres no issues that i know of. I hope it stays that way..."

                    Good luck and I hope that you get through this mess without too much trouble. Whatever they are paying you is probably not enough.

                    You know I used to miss working in support when I first retired, after this I'm just glad that I am out of the firing line.

                    1. psychonaut

                      Re: Gray hairs

                      just for consistency....posted above and now here too...

                      hi dk and anyone else who cares....

                      no problems reported today, bar 3 people who were new customers to me, who had decided to upgrade to 10 and it borked their machines.

                      i think this is really constrained to a small portion of domain machines, not a single call from any of my, at least for sure 650 win 7 customers definately not on domain (data taken from hosted security platform that tells me what os they use) , probably more in the realm of over 1k machines as not everyone has seen the light of not using notron or mcafee....

                      hope everyone else is ok...sleep well!

          2. dkersten

            Re: Gray hairs

            I have yet to find a single KB associated with the download. You will see a windows update icon in the system tray and if you arrow over it, it will pop up with "Downloading XX%" You can't left or right click the icon, and opening windows update does NOT show it is downloading anything. You can check for new updates and have no new updates, and you can look at installed updates and there isn't a single one even remotely close to 3+gb. (I've heard 3, 3.5, 4.3, and 6.5 gb, but I think 6.5 is the size of the temp file after it starts the upgrade process).

            This is NOT a KB update, this is a mostly silent download that can't be controlled with Windows Update.

  34. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
    WTF?

    So...

    I'm forced to park Win 7 updates until I can check them out via a third party in case it's a "stealth install" of Win 10.

  35. herman Silver badge

    I find it mind boggling that all these supposed 'administrators' don't know how to block traffic in a firewall.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Seriously?

      What percentage of Windows administrators would you allow to touch your network devices? I know quite a few Windows admins, but I can count on one hand the number of said administrators that I'd trust on the firewall.

    2. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

      Blocking traffic is the wrong solution, because you still want patches for your current OS version..

  36. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Madness

    "Zero sympathy here either. People doing half a job on the cheap causing issues for themselves, or the poor sod who takes over in in the future."

    Zero sympathy for running Windows. But the expectation that one should have to vigilantly check all updates, because the vendor may decided to treat a MAJOR OS UPGRADE as equivalent to an update, is ridiculous. Nobody should expect this, and I've never heard of any other vendor doing this. Ubuntu and any other Linux OS I know of that allows upgrades from major version to major version, will tell you when a newer OS is available, but it doesn't just start updating it, and makes it clear it's not the same as the regular updates. OSX, same. I don't object to informing that an update to Win10 is available, but autoselecting this update is pure madness on Microsoft's part.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Madness

      I don't think 'madness' is the right word.

  37. Pronounce

    The MS Decision Makers Need a Swift Kick to the Nards!

    They are making my Win7 machines unusable and my life hell.

  38. Spaceman Spiff

    Why?

    Why don't I use MS products? Does this give you a hint? My wife is an Apple fiend - even has an iWatch (probably was first in line to get one). Me, I am a Linux/Android maven. If I can't see the source code, I don't trust it! Simple as that.

    1. bazza Silver badge

      Re: Why?

      "Me, I am a Linux/Android maven. If I can't see the source code, I don't trust it! "

      You've got access to Google's proprietary source code for their proprietary blobs like Google Play Services that they add to Linux to make Android? Care to share that with us?

      "Simple as that."

      So it would seem.

  39. Esme
    Thumb Down

    Commiserations

    - to all those struggling with the problems this has caused. Hearing of these problems now means that if asked advice by a friend I could not in good conscience reccomend Windows to them at all. It's Linux or BSD (or possibly Haiku or Reactos if either gets sufficiently well finished for average users to grapple with ) from now on.

    It's been a very sad 12 months or so for IT, Windows 10 looks to be the wee-flavoured icing on the poo-flavoured cake.

  40. J J Carter Silver badge
    Trollface

    users will be delighted the network nazis have been foiled and they can get the s/w they want from the Store

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      If only...

      Actually, you CAN'T get Windows 7 from the store.

      No wait, that's not what I want either...

  41. bazza Silver badge

    For What It's Worth...

    Microsoft aren't the only outfit forcing unwanted things on their customers.

    Whilst not engaging in the practise to quite the same degree, RedHat are busily driving the Linux world in a direction that is not wholly acceptable to a very large proportion of the community. Systemd is probably going to become unavoidable at some point. At least RedHat's GNOME 3 looks like it might descend into irrelevancy (it is busily disappearing up its own pretentious arse), with Cinnamon being a prime candidate to replace it.

    And as for Apple, well if you want to stay secure you have to take the new versions of OS X and iOS. Which doesn't always work out so well for the hardware and applications you already have... Though I suppose if an organisation is swanky enough to have gone the Apple route for its corporate IT then it probably wouldn't blink at all when the IT manager comes in and says that they have to replace all the hardware or applications to avoid being wide open to a hack.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What a shift in concerns

    If the above comments are anything to go by (particularly dkersten's), Windows 10 upgrades are causing a mountain of grief for admins across the world.

    At one point, reading the comments I had a sudden flashback to the sort of things I was reading and hearing in my place of work when Conficker was ravaging networks worldwide. Yet it's the OS itself that is the cause for concern!

    I only have family machines to worry about and that's worrying enough: you all have my sincere sympathies.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: What a shift in concerns

      You make some very good points.

      The rub comes with MS themselves.

      Will they keep on with the stance that everything in the W10 garden is rosy and that all these so called problems are just noise.

      Or will they man up and :-

      1) Admit that their privacy policy is crap

      2) Withdraw W10 from downloading until they sort out a privacy and upgrade policy that does not need a Law Degree from Harvard to understand.

      Guess which one is more likely?

      A friend of mine called me today asking about the W10 upgrade.

      "But it is free!" thay said.

      I pointed then at this thread.

      A couple of hours later I got a text saying simply "No way Hose"

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What a shift in concerns

        Perhaps they'll do both. ie do everything to satisfy businesses that their networks and their information are safe with/from Microsoft, while at the same time doing precisely nothing to address the issues for the home users.

        Tricky actually, because many businesses are using home/pro versions rather than enterprise, so it's hard to see how Microsoft could treat them and home users differently. Going to be interesting, I think.

        ..

        edit: Ah it's obvious : for a monthly/annual fee Microsoft will promise not to fuck you over.

    2. Mpeler
      Mushroom

      Re: What a shift in concerns - Winficker

      Yep, we have a new virus.

      Winficker.....

  43. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    The thought occurs that there must be a global uptick in data transiting through the last mile(s) and possibly the backbones (unless it is just noise in the Netflick/Spotify global heat engine)...

    1. Mark Allen

      Certainly is

      And I know at least one smaller ISP who admitted that this is causing them bandwidth problems when a client was having YouTube hiccups. I was told that: During Business hours non-Business critical traffic is being managed currently to maintain stability for VPNs and VOIP systems. This was directly blamed on the Windows 10 downloads

  44. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    I have very little that needs Windows and that will run on W2K. Time to blow the W7 VM away.

    1. Esme

      Whilst sorting out some junk the other day, I was delighted to come across my old WinXP disk. With visions of sticking it in a VM so that I could run the couple of Windows games not available to run on Linux that I missed, I got to work on installing XP in Virtualbox. Had to try a second time after coating the data side with washing-up liquid then gently wiping it off, this time XP installed fine, and did so in quite a decent time, too, no slower than a fresh Mint install (well, given the advance in hardware ince, one would expect that). So, there I was VM'd XP all ready and waiting, and.. first game installer refuses to work. Even the washing-up liquid treatement wouldn't help. Damn. OK, let;s fish out the disks for teh other game. WTF? Dirty great crack in it, but it looks clean so.. -but no. Nothing I could do would persuade it to do a damned thing.

      So now it;s official - I have absolutely NO reason to use any version of Windows at home at all.

      Good point someone made elsewhere about systemd in Penguin Territory. Damned shame it's causing such a rift, and unfortunately, I'm amongst those whose technical skills are light enough that I have no real choice in the matter :-(

  45. This post has been deleted by its author

  46. ben_myers
    Thumb Down

    Same with Windows 8.1

    Set up a couple of systems with Windows 8.1 for clients. Went through the usual Windows update-reboot-repeat cycle. Clicked once to do the last set of 8.1 updates and, lo, one system said it was downloading Windows 10. What? Could not stop it once started. Had to go back to a known good restore point and, of course, redo the updates again. Then I looked at the list of available updates. No Win 10 update. Oh, good! Then I looked at the so-called Optional Updates and found that the black-hearted bastards at Microsoft had checked off the "Optional" Windows 10 update for me. I promptly unchecked it, hid the update, then found the Ignorance-base, er, KnowledgeBase number for the update that triggers Windows 10 appearing as an optional update. Removed that update, and hid it, too. I really do not want either client to call me complaining that their laptops were now running Windows 10.

    Now we all know why so many millions of Windows 10 updates have been downloaded and installed in the last 10 days. Microsoft is forcing it on people.

  47. ben_myers
    Thumb Down

    BitTorrent-like malware installed by Microsoft, too

    So, once you have installed Windows 10, Microsoft turns your computer into a BitTorrent-like mule to deliver this piece of crap to other victims. This cleverly offloads Microsoft's own servers and sucks away the bandwidth of others, pressed into servitude by the Redmond borg.

  48. Tom -1
    Unhappy

    Windows 10 has brought me a different problem. My laptop attempted to upgrade, but the upgrade failed. That ought not tp be a problem - but in the process of tryinhg and failing it has somehow completely diabled windows update. I doesn't appear to have damaged anything else, but windows update doesn't work at all.

    1. Kiwi Silver badge
      Linux

      @ Tom -1

      Windows 10 has brought me a different problem. My laptop attempted to upgrade, but the upgrade failed. That ought not tp be a problem - but in the process of tryinhg and failing it has somehow completely diabled windows update. I doesn't appear to have damaged anything else, but windows update doesn't work at all.

      #1 Count your blessings - with updates "broken" you may not have the issues others are :)

      #2 tweaking.com's all-in-one repair has often helped people with these sorts of problems. And a hell of a lot of other problems.

  49. The Quiet One

    Anyone with machines joined to a domain, who is not managing updates with WSUS or SCCM has no business working in IT.

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