Its a disgrace that Windows 10 has not kept such perfect protection!
Damn, now I might have to actually talk to children and educate them about safe and sane behaviour on-line instead of watching TV in the next room.
Are you a Windows 10 converts responsible for young computer users? Be on your guard. Child-friendly Family Features from Windows 7 and 8 won’t be recognised or accepted in the new operating system. Rather, children using Windows 10 PCs are seen as standard users; no dedicated child-user account exists. That means any …
Not excusing Microsoft, just a solution for Richard (assuming you're comfortable making Registry changes), you can setup your child's login (or a dedicated Minecraft login) to *only* run Minecraft by changing the "shell" for the user:
and finally, disable task manager - so when he gets cheeky he can't Ctrl+Alt+Del > Task Manager > File Run:
>disable task manager
Does that work for File->Open too?
I've seen lots of citrix installations where the security fails because its in the GUI, not the filesystem. You can't run explorer from the GUI, but you can do file->open (in say, Word) and get to the C: drive that way. You can't run the command shell but you can copy and rename it and then run it.
Microsoft might not care about stopping kids getting into trouble online but it sure as hell wants to know all about it anyway.
Microsoft might not care about stopping kids getting into trouble online [link]but it sure as hell wants to know all about it anyway.
From all the entries there, this looked scary: "Speech, inking and typing". Everyone has idiosyncratic patterns here. Knowledge of this data might make identifying you possible even when not using Windows, or any computer at all. Microsoft might just as well request your fingerprints!
The linked-to article notes "Like it or not, Microsoft isn’t alone here. What Windows 10 is doing has become common and normal across the web, Android, iOS, and other modern platforms." Well, Linux & BSD distributions do not (except Ubuntu tried something with searches sent to Amazon, and sparked a firestorm, not sure if they do it any more). Of course the tattling starts if you run Chrome on Linux, but that is an issue with the application. Privacy conscious people can use some other browser.
You are an idiot.
Btw I have an EXTREMELY bright 7 year old, if he could figure this out (he probably would), his friends with less computer-literate parents would be learning about the birds & bees rathermore graphically than a COMPETENT parent/guardian would prefer...
'Why oh! Why don't they think of the children?' after handing the child a loaded handgun. (Ignoring the fact the only place they should get a loaded hand gun is from a railway siding or from a local friendly gang member - or is that porn?. Anyway If you don't understand it, don't give it to your children).
(Nice click bait though).
'We' oldies knew that, but (sadly perhaps), not any more; one rarely finds a slightly wrinkled Galaxy Tab with its cover missing (why was that, anyway?) under a bush. Hedgeporn, like public phone boxes and state pensions, will be an unknown pleasure to current and future yoof....
"[...] not any more; one rarely finds a slightly wrinkled Galaxy Tab with its cover missing (why was that, anyway?) under a bush."
Two sides of my back garden border a pavement and a public footpath. A quiet cul-de-sac but used as a short-cut by pedestrians from pubs and schools etc.
Recently I noticed a rolled up magazine tucked partway under the garden fence. When I eventually went on to the public footpath to do some fence weeding from that side - I picked it up expecting a celeb magazine. It was actually two fairly explicit magazines. I doubt any of the neighbours' kids stashed it there - although I'm sure the soon to be teenagers would have thought it an interesting find.
Putting it in the landfill bin I had the mixed emotion of being a responsible adult - and an old spoilsport.
Chances are that the covers were ripped off and mailed back to the printers, as shipping unsold magazines was too heavy a cost burden on those running the magazine racks. After 'stripping' the books/magazines, the retailers were honor-bound to destroy them.
How they wound up under the bush is a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, covered with flaky crust and baked until golden brown.
"Hedgeporn, like public phone boxes and state pensions, will be an unknown pleasure to current and future yoof...." -- Tim Jenkins
Well, they certainly don't have to go outdoors to find it! But weirdly I still come across it walking the dogs --- I've actually found digital hedgeporn, too in the form of DVDs!
after millions of man*-hours testing, is this only news now.
A week after the launch date ?
* I may have just answered my own question ...."
Simple really, parents want other people to make sure their children are safe. But those other people don't care about other people's children.
>Simple really, parents want other people to make sure their children are safe. But those other people don't care about other people's children.
Still not reading the article?
This is more like having your swimming pool refurbished and finding they've walked off with the safety-fence.
But no matter, because they are "continuing to roll out safety-fence measures."
Gosh, how about starting by not breaking something that is already in place that people are (apparently) happy with ?
Only in the software business will you see a company completely uproot existing functionality and replace it with something totally different without giving either heads-up or time to adapt to its customers.
How much would it have cost to keep existing functionality and trumpet a "new, enhanced user mode specifically made for protecting children" ? How is it possible for Microsoft's PR department to NOT have thought of doing that ?
It seems Microsoft is intent on providing us with the Universal HandBook Of How To Annoy Your Customers. Keep at, Nadella, you're doing great.
I assume they had absolutely no idea how to make child accounts work (legally and technically) given that Windows 10 is an extension of their online services and phones home with as much personal information as it can and I suppose they were also unwilling for people to use child accounts with Windows 10 to protect their own privacy.
Agreed, although it seems obvious that to make such an account type work, any responsible adult would neutralize the "phone home" part and cut the online OS-level chatter to a level that can be justified to child services - and if that means zero that's no wind out of my sail, if you get my drift.
Of course, anyone who might actually make a proposal like that in a business meeting these days would probably recieve a slap with a baseball bat made of money, just to set him back on the Golden Path.
The problem is, I am not so much concerned about my own offspring, because, I am not sure why, it is always the odd mate that turns up and wrecks havoc.
For months the system was more or less stable, the protections were in place, then a mate of one of my sons comes along and manages to turn off protections ... he even managed to reset MY PASSWORD, the kid is 12 FFS, and no, they did not know my password. Guess he came with a DVD with password resetting tools. Since then I have removed all protections, if you have physical access, you can do what you please.
Not concerned about my kids watching porn, yes I have explained the basics to them, told them that some people enjoy watching that and that it is meant to be watched by adults. Also told them that that has nothing to do with what you actually do with the opposite sex. After all, porn is just for perverts and the insane.
I do monitor websites they go to, though, on an irregular basis, and they mostly go watch youtube and play flash games on the intertubes with their browsers.
Nicely ripped out of context.
> Also told them that that has nothing to do with what you actually do with the opposite sex. After all, porn is just for perverts and the insane.
I'm not sure that watching other people have sex doesn't fall into the category of "perverted" in that I'm not convinced that "watching other people" is the real purpose of sex. Hands up who wants a 12-yo watching them get it on... anyone? As for the insane - well maybe those who think putting porn in the hands of a twelve-yo is a good idea?
"Cum harder .. I like it a little rough" Porn film dialogue or the words from a song performed by a group at the Disney Radio Music Awards? Run along little boy and get your porn from mtv/vh1 like all the other good little consumers. If you don't get the sex-references, don't worry, there's plenty to enjoy while you're learning to like it with x-factor.
> Nicely ripped out of context.
>> Also told them that that has nothing to do with what you actually do with the opposite sex. After all, porn is just for perverts and the insane.
If he'd left it as just the first sentence, I wouldn't have commented. Adding the second sentence, however, makes a big difference.
Unfortunately you also seem to have missed the point with your ridiculous Straw Man arguments of "Hands up who wants a 12-yo watching them get it on... anyone? As for the insane - well maybe those who think putting porn in the hands of a twelve-yo is a good idea?"
The "sex education" children get here in the UK is mostly useless nonsense, more designed to placate Middle England than actually helping children learn about sex and (more importantly) relationships.
Consequently they *don't know* that porn "has nothing to do with what you actually do with the opposite sex", so they try to replicate that (with all the deleterious emotional consequences that follow) and, because they don't know better, results in increased levels of teenage pregnancies and STIs.
We need to teach children what they need to know *before* they know it and not with the coy and embarrassed "education" they get at the moment. Compare this with countries like the Netherlands which start to teach children about sexuality from about the age of 6 (cue the Mail frothing at the mouth about our children being "corrupted"!) and you might start to understand the situation.
"I do monitor websites they go to, though, on an irregular basis, and they mostly go watch youtube and play flash games on the intertubes with their browsers."
Assuming they know you monitor their online activities - then sleepovers, or other visits to their mates, could provide the necessary opportunities. Like all defences there only has to be one weak link - and kids soon learn and share.
Many years ago when browsing controls were first being installed - young teenagers bragged to adult IT acquaintances about how easily they could by-pass school and parental controls. One kid would take an exploit into school - and everyone else would quickly acquire it
A bit like the childproof pill containers - arthritic grandparents have to ask their 5 year old grandchild to open the box for them.
Humans are smart animals - and children are the smartest at seeing the non-obvious.
he even managed to reset MY PASSWORD, the kid is 12 FFS, and no, they did not know my password. Guess he came with a DVD with password resetting tools.
Not necessarily. I know a 12 year old who got his father's password by fitting a hardware USB keylogger on the PC his parents use. It's stuff kids learn in the school playground these days.
My view is that so long as you educate your child that porn is entertainment that's as fictitious as a Hollywood movie, it won't cause any harm that a Kleenex can't fix. Leave the PC open and tell the child that you trust them, and you've removed both the challenge to get past the blocks and also the curiosity to find out what all the fuss is about.
Porn filters won't stop online bullying, which is 1000's of times more likely to cause serious psychological harm to your child. Personally I'd allow porn but ban all social media sites and applications if it were practical to do so (which it unfortunately isn't).
Viruses and other nasties are a real concern, and the only effective protection against those is to educate your child about the dangers, and describe to them the various ways that they could be manipulated into installing something malicious. Net-nanny filters offer no protection, and there are plenty of exploits that an AV won't stop.
A far bigger risk however is the child buying stuff using a parent's e-shopping account (which many sites make very easy to do). A 12 year old who has learned how to edit a registry setting and so you think is pretty computer-savvy may not even stop to consider where the money comes from when they hit Amazon's "Buy with 1-click".
As the Reg reader in question I'd like to say:
I'm not outraged I'm just trying to help by informing others of this issue and my opinion of Microsoft.
There was no "Check Family Safety tip" when I upgraded 7 to 10.
I wasn't "keeping my sprog safe" I was investigating the features of Windows 10 compared to 7 when I found this. This isn't a PC my children use, so that's not an issue.
And I don't think the time I spent was a waste, and it was much more than 5 minutes.
Except perhaps, preventing logins outside of monitored times? Perhaps locking browser preferences preventing browser histories from being deleted and blocking the browser's "porn-mode" or switching on/off proxies.
Not exactly on topic, but do you guys and gals think it would be worth it to send a petition to the EU regarding Microsoft's blatant scummery?
I asked a "European Parliament Data Protection Service Data Protection Officer" about it, and the response was "Our functions do not allow to provide you with a complete and satisfactory answer." and I was suggested to check out the petitions...
I also found that converting accounts to Microsoft online ones, and "accepting the invitation" to "join my family" couldn't be completed using Firefox. The account status was perpetually stuck as "inviation sent" and "pending" (depending on whether you looked at the control panel, or the family-settings page on the Microsoft account website).
However, as soon as I used their 'Edge' browser to accept the invitations I'd sent my children, everything sprang into life.
Hmm. OS/browser too closely integrated, perhaps... Something we've seen before and knuckles have been wrapped over?
Another is OpenDNS (www.opendns.com). If you have a home router, you just set the IP from that page as its DNS server (usually possible with the management web interface), make an account for yourself at OpenDNS, and set filtering for your network. The beauty of this is that it applies filtering to all machines that connect to your home WLAN, whether laptop, pad or phone, without having to install or even configure anything on them. It works by banning domains from getting resolved (they redirect to a "tut tut" page). There are many categories to filter, although I have found that adding filtering for anything but just "pornography" makes it too puritanical, and even then it occasionally bans some pages I wouldn't have a problem showing my kid. Culture-dependent, I guess. But mostly the filtering is at this setting is appropriate.
Agree, I much prefer solutions that are Internet connection-based rather than device and/or user based, that way I automatically control what my kid's friends can access whilst at my house. From my experience the issue (particularly with young boy's) isn't what they get up to on their own (mainly Minecraft games/videos etc.), but what happens when they are with friends and wish to impress each other when in the safety of a bedroom...
Girl's on the other hand seem to need guidance in the 'safe' use of social media - something none of the parental control tools can do.
Am I the only one? When my two boys were at home and using the computer, they weren't being protected by software or padlocks, just personal responsibility. I looked at the internet usage for each of their logins and when I began to notice they were going to porn sites, spoke to each of them about it. Actually, it presented a learning and bonding opportunity for all of us.
I don't rely on a company, software or a government to tell me or my kids how to act. That's the parents job. My kids turned out fine and we still laugh about getting caught. No one has been traumatized or turned into a pervert. They are both married and have children of their own now.
EVERYTHING the "nancy pants" "Think of the Children" brigade has ever said, is a lie they perpetrate to gain more control over people. Stop following the rest of the lemmings and think for yourself!
If you rely on someone or something to do your job, you'll soon be disappointed!
How dare you teach your kids how to survive!
My two girls were advised things like dodgy on-line conversations -- this was back in the days of Habbo Hotel. One day one of my kids asked about someone going on about a 'kewl game to download', she'd smelt a rat so between us we trolled the bugger for half an hour before he realised the game was up.
These days she's a delicate thing happily doing all sorts of nasty things to all sorts of on-line monsters.
Just because it worked for you and your kids turned out fine doesn't mean it is the right solution for everyone else, and it is also a very ignorant and inconsiderate premise to work on and has numerous serious consequences.
The majority of parents are not computer literate enough to have any clue about this or how to deal with it, they know how to turn on their computer, use facebook and send email and not much more.
Some parents work long hours and simply do not have the luxury of being able to supervise their kids computer/internet usage.
I have 4 kids, and it simply is not possible for me to supervise them all at the same time, and if I did it one at a time, then I would only be able to allow then access at the weekend and would get nothing else done. So yes I absolutely have to rely on other software solutions to control what content and websites they have access to. Luckily I am very smart and very computer savvy, but even I am not infallible.
Safe use of the internet also requires a certain amount of savvy knowledge and experience, most parents do not have this, and neither do young kids, who will just click on and download anything, the result of which is spyware, malware, browser hijacking etc installed on yours or their computers, identities stolen, passwords hacked etc, which is very serious of your kids are using your computer, or their computer can access others on the home network. So every device should absolute have a good anti-malware product installed at bare minimum, to not do so is pure stupidity.
Then there is the fact that simply "trusting" your kids not to do or look at anything they shouldn't on the internet, could land you in a lot of trouble, and you could find yourself with the police and social services knocking on your door. And if your kids have gone to school and told their friends "My dad lets me do whatever I wan't on the Internet", then pleading ignorance probably isn't going to help you.
Once your kids get to secondary school and start going out alone and staying with friends, then it is game over anyway, as they will be using computers at friends houses that you do not control or have access to, but you should certainly be making the effort to take responsibility for what comes into your own home, not only for your kids, but for your own sake as well.
So I would have to urge anyone NOT to follow your advice, and to definitely use 3rd party software, but simply to take the time to perform routine checks to make sure the software is working as expected and doing what it is supposed to do.
There are plenty of online resources to help you be safe online and keep your kids safe online.
such as: https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/online-safety/
I would also recommend all parents setup OPENDNS at home (www.opendns.org), this is pretty infailable as it is not software and is a setiing at router level, so affects all devices connected to your home network.
Penguinista here bemused at the sudden tide of negative-ish Windows 10 articles. Wouldn't it have been better, El Reg, to at least limit the articles to one a day covering all the stuff found and thought newsworthy from the day before rather than a new article for every little thing someone or some people are/aren't happy with?
I've been reading the Win 10 articles so I can offer at least semi-informed advice to any non-techies that may ask me about it. So far I've learned that
- it has a new UI which some like but quite a lot of others don't, in particular with regard to the Start menu
- if you accept the default settings for Windows 10, it is very invasive of privacy (but on the other hand, also offers a lot of functionality, some of which appears of dubious worth to me, but then I'm a grumpy old biddy)
- it runs noticeably faster than previous versions of Windows
- it knackers any settings you may have set previously with regard to keeping children away from Bad Stuff (so make sure you rest them, if this is an issue for you).
The overall impression I'm getting is overall not good, but then again, I recall one of the Linux distros I used in the past completely borking a distro upgrade once, forcing a complete reinstall, which I wasn;t best pleased at (only ever happened the once, which was why I was so annoyed about it). What would be nice to know is how much of the negative stuff I;ve read about is MS known to be going to address? Are MS working like maniacs to sort out the main perceived flaws or are they going lalala and hoping they'll go away if they ignore them?
Anyway, currently my advice, based on what I;ve seen on El Reg, if asked, would be that if someone is set on sticking with Windows and wants Windows 10 fine, but for heavens sake be aware of those privacy settings issues. I'd feel happier pointing someone at Linux Mint (becaue I'm confident they'd experience less problems than with any version of Windows) but I'm not going to push it on 'em if they don;t want it.
I don't even use Linux or Mac.
Windows 10 fully deserves the spate of negative media coverage it recently received.
Satnad and the Windows 10 'Insiders' could have resolved many of the issues early on in the Win10 development phase, but instead they preferred to let the self-selecting committee of fanboys design the whole thing. Design by committee is never a good thing.
I will upgrade to Windows 10 in due time, but using a local account and keeping it on a tight leash as far as privacy and tracking settings are concerned. I don't give a flip about Microsoft's cloud and mobile ecosystem.
And Classic Shell will be the first piece of software to be installed on it.
The self selecting "testers" probably do not have any children so this is a non-issue to them. The problem appears to be a serious lack of thought about what should be available to users. Parental control settings are common sense; children will be using the computer. DVD/BluRay support in the OS; there are enough devices with one installed to warrant some built in support even if they include VLC. The more I hear and read it sounds like MS worried too much the trivial.
"The self selecting "testers" probably do not have any children so this is a non-issue to them."
I'm one of the testers. I have kids. I didn't notice this because my interest in testing was "Have they broken my company's product line and what do I need to get into the next release so that when Win10 rolls out and all my customers foolishly upgrade (at the beginning of the summer holidays) my tech support colleagues don't get a month of grief?". That is, I was testing with my employee hat on (and on my employer's time) rather than with my parent hat on (and in my own time).
Crowd sourcing is a great way to get the most common things tested zillions of times over. It's a rubbish way to get the obscure corners tested. I suspect that Family Safety is a fairly obscure corner for most commercial purposes and I suspect that most of the Windows Insiders were doing it as part of their day-job.
On the other hand, you may have a point in that a dis-proportionately large fraction of those who submitted opinions (rather than bugs) were the teenagers, so the Win10 design (like Win8) is driven primarily by those who haven't had much experience in using a computer to do anything except play games and watch GooTube.
They may be cheap to you (and me...), most of my lad's schoolfriends folks would have to borrow a bucket before pissing in it...
How are they meant to acquire, site, deploy and support X smallish pcs?
Pls remem that most pc users do not have the experience, cynicism, skills and cash that some el reg commentards do...
Am I to infer that it is now mandatory for *children* to have an email address that Microsoft (at least, probably others to follow) can send spam to? In previous versions of Metro, and indeed in the final release of Win10 then it is possible to avoid creating a Microsoft account, but if you can't switch on the Family Safety without bending over to MS then (as others above have suggested) it might just be simpler to say that older versions of Windows are more suitable for children.
Please, someone tell David Cameron. I'd *love* to see the Tory party torn between sucking up to Microsoft and "Thinking of the Children".
On the other hand, having a consistent (cloud-based) logon should mean that family safety settings can be applied across several devices and not just in the same building.
All too conceivable that a teen might be using their XBOX One, one parent's laptop, their step-parent's desktop and also use on occasions their grandparents'.
The devil though is in the detail and the implementation, and as with anything, it's a balance of convenience and effectiveness.
"Defending Windows 10 and Microsoft, a spokesperson told us: “We will continue to roll out new Windows 10 Family features over time. We designed Windows 10 as a service, and we’ll keep listening to our customers. If there are ways to make improvements, we will do so.” "
Get the impression this is MS's standard response to any criticism of Win10. It also in time will enable them to also say, when they roll out some new (poorly thought-out) feature, that they've been listening to their users...
Yes MS broke parental controls. What they didn't do, at least in my case, is leave everything wide open. After the upgrade my son logged in and could do nothing, he couldn't launch any applications. The whole thing was completely locked down. I had to delete his account and create a new one.
Only found out about this change to windows 10 when i thought my email report saying no activity was a bit fishy. I get they want to lock kids into Microsoft as soon as they can, but frankly being forced to set-up email addresses for my kids is not on. Unfortunately not sure I've got a choice. I only went to Win 10 as it had to be better than Win 8.1 my new kid PC came with. I suppose I can look to Install Win 7 to bring the PC into alignment with my other PCs, but I'm keen to see if I can grow to like Win 10.
it is a joke indeed, my kids immediately disabled the settings after I upgraded them. But it is even worse than this, MicroShaft have also completely broken family safety on Windows 7 and 8 as well and left people vulnerable on purpose and knowingly, but choose to continue pretending everything is fine.
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