back to article BONK! BONK! Windows 10 whack-a-mole – Microsoft still fixing bugs

Microsoft is still trying to crush the remaining bugs in its latest and supposedly greatest operating system. Build 10240, which was released to the Windows Insider program two weeks ago, is widely considered to be the "release to manufacturing" (RTM) build, even though Redmond itself says the RTM concept doesn't apply in its …

  1. P. Lee Silver badge
    Meh

    Meh!

    I'm used to new Linux installs wanting to download patches.

    This is no different. In fact, it's so un-different I'm not going to bother with it for the foreseeable future.

    1. asdf Silver badge

      Re: Meh!

      Yeah nothing beats an EA game on release day where you end up downloading a patch nearly the size of the whole game to fix only some of the show stoppers. That is if their servers haven't already face planted for the first week. At least someone has set the bar very low for Microsoft.

    2. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: Meh!

      The people who are getting Windows 10 updates right now are those that signed up to get alpha and beta code via the Windows Insider process.

      i.e. they agreed to test potentially buggy software.

      We therefore can't draw any conclusions as to what might be released to production Windows 10 systems from what such early test users see.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Meh!

        >We therefore can't draw any conclusions as to what might be released to production Windows 10 systems from what such early test users see.

        How many days until release? Maybe it will be fine is probably what a lot of middle managers are saying in Redmond right now. Still this whole thing reeks of apeing Apple (the bad parts like pushing out service packs pretending to be new half ass OS releases every year) and doing that originally is a lot of what caused the whole Vista fiasco (lets go all bloaty like Mac OS at the time).

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Meh!

        >We therefore can't draw any conclusions as to what might be released to production Windows 10 systems from what such early test users see.

        We can, because MS have to have released software to "the channel", so that they can actually sell Win 10 systems on the day. So we can be confident that Build 10240 is apart from some cosmetic version number changes, the "Release to Manufacturing" version of Win10.

        What is open to question is what will be in the first "Release to Market" update. Given the number of major bugs discovered and the amount of dev work reportedly still in progress, I would not be surprised to find that the first update is a 3.5GB image download ie. a completely new build, that completely replaces Build 10240...

      3. CmdrX3

        Re: Meh!

        Are you taking the piss... this is a supposedly RTM version and at this point in the release schedule, testers should not be finding these kind of bugs in something that will be released on a wide scale to the general public. It's not the testing that is the problem, it's what they are finding two days before general release that's the problem.

  2. Cirdan
    Linux

    Risk vs reward

    The reward to risk ratio leads me to AVOID Win10.

    At least the kids' Win 8.1 game machines are stable.

    ...Cirdan...

    (And I'm on Linux Mint and Android)

    1. Mark 85 Silver badge

      Re: Risk vs reward

      I quite agree... Win7 stays put on my machines. What happens at work might be a different story depending on what Sales Dweeb gets to what C-Suite type. I think permanent retirement is becoming a viable option for me.

  3. Neoc

    I got a spare HP laptop that's constantly crashing due to a graphics driver problem. It's the sacrificial lamb.

  4. Syntax Error

    Seems Microsoft with its new CEO has learnt nothing. The culture of send it out bugs and all still remains. Some government or big company should sue Microsoft for supplying faulty goods/services. Cotowing to "Software Licenses" needs to end especially with OSs. They need to be challenged.

    I'm surprised know one is getting excited over SP1 yet.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      >Seems Microsoft with its new CEO has learnt nothing.

      On the contrary!

      We're just seeing what some in MS have known for sometime, MS have lost the ability to launch a new product to market, hence why they've been saying this will be the last version of Windows...

    2. PNGuinn Silver badge
      Trollface

      "I'm surprised know one is getting excited over SP1 yet"

      Nah - if you're really that bored get excited over service pack 3.

      1. Pookietoo

        Re: get excited over service pack 3

        Why are people still talking about service packs? There's no such thing in MSFT's new strategy of rolling updates.

    3. asdf Silver badge

      hmm

      >The culture of send it out bugs and all still remains

      I am hardly some MS fanboi (check my post history lol) but they do to tend to spend more on software Q&A than probably anyone else. They unlike Apple have to support a ton more different combinations of hardware and software and in the last half decade or so have done a better job. I have definitely seen more of Mac OS shitting itself on my home computer than I have seen blue screens on my Win7 computers at work (but have yet to make FreeBSD shit the bed on my Mac which is why its my daily driver). That said that was Win7. Probably premature to defend Win10 as it may end up being a tire fire on release.

      1. Michael Sanders

        Re: hmm

        I don't know. Apple is a much more mature unix. The Linux world has pretty much been sitting on it's ass. RPM vs. installing on a Mac is a huge difference. Running Linux means "being" a developer. I've finally been impressed with Mac enough to buy one. If Apple sold it's OS to the masses with a bundled motherboard or some other scheme. They just might kick windows in the nuts pretty hard.

        1. asdf Silver badge

          Re: hmm

          >Apple is a much more mature unix

          Yes the POSIX parts are great what tends to be the problem is Apple's non POSIX eye candy bloat.

          >The Linux world has pretty much been sitting on it's ass.

          If anything Red Hat with the cataclysmic systemd changes that are rapidly changing everything (I wish they were sitting on their ass) is turning Linux into Windows lite. Now the desktop/laptop seems to be all that matters in that ecosystem.

          >RPM vs. installing on a Mac is a huge difference.

          RPM eh? That's the whole Linux world eh? You haven't looked in 10 years have you? That said not only Linux (and *BSD) but even Windows will support your Mac hardware with security updates longer than Apple will.

  5. Winkypop Silver badge
    Stop

    This "Get Windows 10" widget...

    Can it be turned off any harder?

    1. Bert 1
      WTF?

      Re: This "Get Windows 10" widget...

      Oh, I hope so.

      I turned it off (stopped relevant updates downloading, etc).

      Fscking things come back! I can't be arsed spending any more time on it. I am hoping it will disappear tomorrow, but it might just get bigger :-(

      1. VBF

        Re: This "Get Windows 10" widget...

        If you have the following updates installed:

        KB 3035583

        KB 2952664

        KB 3065987

        Uninstall them and "Get Windows 10" goes away. If you want it later - reinstall those updates. I've followed that exact procedure on 2 test PCs.

        Unfortunately the updates will try and reinstall as they themselves get updated - best you can do is hide them and be wary. That's assuming that you don't allow Windows to automatically download / install updates - I never have!

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge
          Flame

          Re: This "Get Windows 10" widget...

          Yes, MS pushed them out again a week or so ago so they install again even after uninstalling and hiding them and I imagine it won't be the last time this happens over the next year. So now they're using Windows Update as Coupon bloody Monkey.

      2. Stevie Silver badge

        Re: This "Get Windows 10" widget...

        I stopped deleting the patches and hacked the registry to hide the clicky. Now the updates download automatically but the annoying too-easy-to-click icon is nowhere to be seen.

  6. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
    Linux

    Epic or epoch?

    It's strange to think that in 2015 a Raspberry Pi running some version of GNU/Linux is a more stable platform than Windows on a more powerful device. I certainly will not be buying anything with Windows pre-loaded.

    1. Steve Cooper

      Re: Epic or epoch?

      How about a Raspberry Pi running Windows 10?

      1. DJV Silver badge
        Devil

        "How about a Raspberry Pi running Windows 10?"

        Go wash your mouth out with soap and hydrochloric acid!

      2. PNGuinn Silver badge
        Mushroom

        "How about a Raspberry Pi running Windows 10?"

        See Icon. That is all

      3. Jack of Shadows Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: Epic or epoch?

        Nope. How about a first gen Intel Galileo running Windows 10 IoT? I have both so WTF? Should be very painful but it'll distract me from the physical pain. Onward!

    2. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: Epic or epoch?

      Is it really surprising that targeting a single device is easier than targeting all pcs made in the last 5 years and a load of tablets?

      1. Tomato42 Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: Epic or epoch?

        one was "cobbled" together by "amateurs" and is given out for free while the other hikes a price of a kidney in worse parts of the globe and was "perfected" by "professionals" over a course of a decade and a half

  7. Kracula
    Meh

    As always, wait it out

    Not sure "Microsoft is delivering a faulty new OS" still qualifies as news these days. It seems that this kind of launches have become the industry standard - either were speaking OS, games, consoles etc. I guess the economic forces at work say that it's more efficient to work out bugs as you also record sales, rather than spend millions on closed testing environments.

  8. Len Goddard

    Business as usual

    Is anyone silly enough to upgrade to a new MS OS before SP1 at the earliest?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Business as usual

      Dear god, how times are we going to have to repeat, there will be NO SPs for windows 10. Its all on a rolling upgrade schedule. You get them (updates) whether you want them or not unless you run the Enterprise edition.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Business as usual

        I think you missed the point of the rolling update schedule. That just means that they're going to issue consumer patches on any damn day of the month they please; instead of waiting till the second Tuesday of each month. I haven't seen anything that said there wouldn't be service packs, or at least "patch rollups."

        The point of waiting for SP1 (regardless of what it's called) is that most of the major bugs have been found and worked out (or at least around) by that time.

    2. peakyblinder

      Re: Business as usual

      Considering there won't be any SPs for Windows 10, people would have a long wait...

      1. king of foo

        Re: Business as usual

        Or... was that his/her point???

  9. hplasm Silver badge
    Devil

    Bring it- bugs and all...

    It's all grist to the The Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal.

    From the FructiferousBugwriter Beast of Redmond!

  10. nematoad Silver badge

    ?

    OK off-topic I know, but surely the animal pictured in the heading is a prairie-dog not a mole.

    1. frank ly Silver badge

      Re: ?

      It might be a subtle joke about not being able to get things right. (?)

    2. Kubla Cant Silver badge

      Re: ?

      The first para says Microsoft are "beavering away", but it's not a beaver, either. According to the image filename, it's a gopher (which I think is the same as a prairie dog).

    3. Zippy's Sausage Factory
      Thumb Up

      Re: ?

      Yes, it's a subtle joke. And quite a clever one. Very very clever.

      I had to look up prairie dogging on urban dictionary in order to understand it...

  11. 0laf Silver badge

    I probably will have a go. But not for a little while and not until I've got a proper backup of the current Win7 install.

    1. Boothy

      Same here.

      I have a Laptop that will act as the sacrificial lamb guinea pig, for initial testing, see if it breaks access to my network shares (BSD box), or anything else first.

      My main PC, a desktop (i7 gaming rig, Steam etc), will remain on Win 7 64 bit for the time being, at least until I've seen a few 'all clear' type forum and blog posts etc.

  12. peakyblinder

    I've used the 'uninstall' option from within the control panel many times and have had no problems (ironically uninstalling the Office 2016 preview).

  13. Charles Manning

    How bad is it?

    I've heard it said before that you can tell how bad things are in a product by seeing how many people are working overtime.

    I bet tonight there's a long queue of pizza delivery trucks outside One Microsoft Way.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Meh

    Nah, not yet

    If I had an expendable Win7 or Win8.1 license I'd give it a whirl - the bugs so far haven't caused me too much pain.

    But I won't upgrade any machine that I rely on for general purpose stuff until it becomes clear how many of the privacy-invading / telemetry sending features of the preview have been turned off or made deselectable (preferably by default) in the commercial release.

    And also how useful it is when it has never been connected to a Microsoft Account.

  15. Tromos
    Joke

    There are no service packs for Win10

    An excellent reason to wait for SP1

    1. Avatar of They Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: There are no service packs for Win10

      Darn!, you beat me to it.

    2. johnwerneken

      Re: There are no service packs for Win10

      exactly

  16. Efros

    Meh I'll upgrade my laptop

    Just to see how bad things can be. I ghosted the boot drive last week just in case it's a complete can of worms.

  17. J J Carter Silver badge

    OS have shipped with bugs since forever.

    1. PNGuinn Silver badge
      FAIL

      "OS have shipped with bugs since forever."

      But this may be the first time the bugs have shipped with an os....

  18. Andy The Hat Silver badge

    SP1

    I bet there will be a SP1.

    Cumulative patches over a year or year and a half, probably amounting to GB will have to be rolled together just on the basis of bandwidth costs.

    On top of that, any new purchaser on a 2Mb/s connection will not be happy waiting days for the updates to finish before they can download pictures of cats ...

    1. Pookietoo

      Re: SP1

      I expect there will be updated install images, to avoid the need for a zillion updates after installation, but they won't come with the support period guarantee that SPs have traditionally had. Remember how they dropped support for original 8.1 after 8.1 Update was released.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Window 10 - Better That Expected?

    Interesting to see all the negative comments on Windows 10 which is reminiscent of the millennium bugs scare. I have tried and tested all the Technical Preview on 2 systems and yes, there have been some serious bugs on the way but these have been sorted for the 10240 release. That is not to say other issues won't arise as people try to hack and break it but it does surprise me that some have decided to stick at 8.1 considering all the detractors there were for that system.

    It is always interesting to me how many Apple fans dismiss the importance of their bugs, some of them very serious and say this is part of normal development.

    Good luck Microsoft as going through the Technical Previews for 10, you can see how much effort they have they have put into getting it ready.

    1. Roo
      Windows

      Re: Window 10 - Better That Expected?

      "That is not to say other issues won't arise as people try to hack and break it but it does surprise me that some have decided to stick at 8.1 considering all the detractors there were for that system."

      From the reviews/fansites it looks as though there is no good reason for me to upgrade from 8.1 to 10. The thing I would like fixed in 8.1 is the schizophrenic UI, but it looks like 10 has taken that problem to a new level rather than fixing it. It does not make sense for me to upgrade to another OS that still has schizo UI in addition to a whole new bunch of rough edges. YMMV.

      I was hoping 10 would fix the pick and mix UI, but it looks like that will never happen now given that Win 10 is the last of them an the best I can hope for is incremental bug fixes. It engenders the same "sinking deeper into the tarpit" feeling that some folks got from OpenVMS when HPaq took it behind the woodshed and bludgeoned it to death with a golf club.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Window 10 - Better That Expected?

        >> From the reviews/fansites it looks as though there is no good reason for me to upgrade from 8.1 to 10

        Why not try thinking for yourself instead of getting others to do it for you? Just a thought...

        1. Roo
          Windows

          Re: Window 10 - Better That Expected?

          "Why not try thinking for yourself instead of getting others to do it for you? Just a thought.."

          The post quite clearly shows that I did some research, did some thinking and decided that it wasn't worth the investment in time and effort at this moment in time. I don't understand why you are so angry about it, as eventually I will have no choice but to move onto Win 10 at some stage if MS keep to their Windows as Service strategy.

          Oh and while we're handing out advice, I've got some for you: quit being an Anonymous Cretin.

    2. asdf Silver badge

      Re: Window 10 - Better That Expected?

      >Interesting to see all the negative comments on Windows 10 which is reminiscent of the millennium bugs scare

      Interesting to me on Microsoft articles is always all the ACs and one day old accounts. Actually not so much.

  20. Amorous Cowherder
    Pint

    Bears/shite/woods

    Same old, same old.

    Has here ever been a perfect product release from MS or anyone? Heck people like Larry Ellison are lucky to still be alive given the dire state of Oracle's first early releases back in the late 70's. The trick these days is to hammer down the number of "visible" and most dangerous bugs and get it shipped, fix it on the fly a more users pick up the product and start using it.

  21. khisanth

    I am now very nervous about hitting that upgrade button!

    1. Boothy
      Stop

      See icon.... -->

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So this is in fact Windows 9 then?

    Until at least the majority of bugs have been fixed.

    1. Esme

      Re: So this is in fact Windows 9 then?

      Nonono! Windows 9 is/was much better - no known bugs whatsoever!

      1. arrbee

        Re: So this is in fact Windows 9 then?

        was that Windows 95 or Windows 98 ?

      2. N2 Silver badge

        Re: So this is in fact Windows 9 then?

        "Nonono! Windows 9 is/was much better - no known bugs whatsoever!"

        That'll be the vapourare version then?

  23. bombastic bob Silver badge

    don't forget the built-in adware and spyware

    When grilling Windows 10 over the coals, and pointing out Microsoft's hurried shoving of their new OS into our various body orifices, let us NOT forget the built-in ADWARE and SPYWARE, announced by Joe Belfiore at the 'Build' conference earlier this year, about 2 minutes into his keynote speech, where he gloriously bragged about the special place in the new "start thing" that makes 'recommendations' based on HOW YOU USE YOUR COMPUTER. And other places, too. Because for Microsoft, it's all about "the METRO" and "the STORE" and hooking you permanently into their OS, tracking you, and serving you ADVERTISEMENTS whether you want it or not, because with the new 'Microsoft Logon', you have given them PERMISSION to DO SO.

    1. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: don't forget the built-in adware and spyware

      So just like Android / Chrome now then? Except I'm pretty sure that Microsoft ask permission first for anything involving personal info...

      1. sabroni Silver badge

        ftfy

        So just like ANDROID / CHROME now then? Except I'm PRETTY SURE that Microsoft ASK PERMISSION FIRST for anything involving PERSONAL INFO...

  24. ShelLuser
    Windows

    If only MS were a reliable service partner...

    Note; I'm not spouting the common (unfounded) "Microsoft is evil" propaganda here, but merely commenting on examples from the past which just show you how "reliable" Microsoft can be.

    Take Windows Server 2003, near its EOL. If you were putting faith in Microsoft and also used their anti virus & anti malware security (Security Essentials) then you had the pleasure of having to deal with a product which refused to work normally ("Security status insecure", the icon would remain orange) because your OS would expire in 3 - 4 months.later on.

    Windows XP: same procedure.

    Ergo: when they don't like you using a certain product (even though it's still perfectly valid) they'll try to thwart you. Does that sound like a reliable partner to use their software as a service? I have my doubts...

  25. Brian Souder 1

    Rough Edges but spin it up

    I have been testing it on an old Vista laptop that I don't think is even supported. It found all the drivers without an issue. The last two updates that went in this week have caused the new IE to crash a few times and restart. It may be driver related. Other than that, it has been really stable for me. It still needs some polish though. Even after release I would probably wait for a few months before anything production, and then I would be setting up a test box. Most of you should probably find an old machine or VM and fire up a copy so you can get used to it a while. It really is not that bad to work with and it has seen performance boosts. I recently installed this for a friend on a laptop he was rebuilding. (Brave Soul) He is gaming on the laptop without any issues and it is much faster then before. He is even playing the Beta of World of Warships. (So beta on a beta)

  26. TheOtherHobbes

    [ob] But can it run Crysis? [/ob]

  27. Esme

    Think I'll wait till Reactos comes out of Beta and try that instead!

    1. tempemeaty
      Joke

      "Think I'll wait till Reactos comes out of Beta and try that instead!"

      Y-you've discovered the secret to living forever?

      =P

  28. Gis Bun

    So this article is based on a two week old build? Give us a break. Sensationalism at its worse.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No big deal at all

    Win10 has hundreds of thousands of Bugs, aka product defects that will never be fixed even if Microsucks had 200 years to try and fix them. Like all prior versions of Windoze, you can be assured that there are at least 10,000 known product defects in Win10 that will cause your PC to crash, BSOD, reboot or lose data if not all the above at once. This is known by Microsucks as product "features" for which they charge customers $250 or more to report these product defects, aka "features" to Microsucks. If there ever was a criminal corporation more deserving of having it's CEO and all board members sentenced to 35 years in prison for incomprehensible consumer fraud, I don't know what company that would be.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No big deal at all

      Downvoted for "Microsucks", would downvote again for "Windoze" if I could - and I'm a long-time Linux user.

      1. Derpity

        Re: No big deal at all

        Got you covered. Downvoted for "Windoze". At least put some creativity in gents.

      2. Geoffrey W Silver badge

        Re: No big deal at all

        @AC "Downvoted for "Microsucks", would downvote again for "Windoze" if I could - and I'm a long-time Linux user."

        ...Here you go...I'll do it for you. You're welcome.

    2. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: No big deal at all

      Look on the bright side: no systemd.

  30. Michael Sanders

    Worse the Windows Fister

    Maybe it's a bug with AMD processors or the chipset. But my experience with Windows 10, bare metal or virtual machine has been awful. I figured that maybe new hardware, specifically surface tablets must work perfectly. But now we hear that those needs firmware updates as well?

    Windows 95/98 wasn't understood. People tried to run too much legacy. Vista ran slow for me. Early windows 2000 had some compatibility concerns with packages. I never ran ME. But windows 10 is by far the worst. It's an interface design by committee. And my basement has less bugs in it.

    Other's mileage may vary. Fair enough. But you don't ship the working state I've been testing.

  31. moxberg

    Whack-a-Mole with Windows 10 ads

    Over at ZDNet there's talk about the first ransom screens popping up. $1.49 a month to get rid of full screen ads in Solitaire. More moles expected to raise their heads.

    With their modernized (or should I say metroided [http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Metroided]?) license terms, Microsoft has set the stage for much more than the odd nag screen in an easily replaced mini game. That's just the tip of a massive iceberg. You have to accept anything they want to shove down your throat, or your license will be terminated, i.e. you can not legally use your copy anymore.

    They want your desktop background to be a commercial slide show? Accept or wipe your hard drive. You found some trickery on the web to get rid of that? Congratulations! The next mandatory update finds it deinstalled or inactive: wave goodbye to your license or (maybe) fork out some cash to remove it "the official way".

    Cortana starts "randomly recording and uploading your conversations to improve the service"? Live with it, you already blank signed for that. And don't forget to have your fingerprints taken and your face scanned while you go, use of the data left to Microsofts discretion.

    A dodgy update kills not only your machine, but simultaneously those of a hundred thousand other people (remember, all those Orwellian features constantly fiddle with the same little cryptographic chip that handles (mandatory, of course) "SecureBoot", eventually locking down your machine for good? Kismet, no class action for you. Just make sure you encrypted all your data to be done with them as well.

  32. johnwerneken

    so what lol

    That's what rapid release does, buggy software. True the concept that more disease is the cure sounds terribly un-Vulcan, but as in medicine, in some cases, its true.

    A wise bleeding edger ought to enable shadow copies aka restore points, and do frequent off-system full partition images with independent, boot at higher priority than the system boot drive, rescue media. Windows provides the first, and Macrium the second, at NO CHARGE.

    As is usual with most folks, when people get screwed, it's mostly because they either asked for it, or might as well have, considering their thoughts words actions etc.

    Further, there's tools, and not just for win 10 pro or for win 10 Enterprise, to screen and block particular updates, or entire categories, such as security or drivers.

    As to the wisdom of the whole rapid release thing, I have both doubts and suspicions. The doubt is mostly the trade-off between less cost to modify, and a much greater risk of backfire. The suspicion has to do with lock-in, cloud dependence, and subscription fees.

    But as long as I can still control what actually occurs, that I allow to keep on occurring, I am fine with it.

    Yet, win 10 is not getting within range of any of my production systems until I'm pretty sure I have a stabile-when-used-as-I-use-the-system version, and that one is going to have it's legs sewn shut.

    1. johnwerneken

      Re: so what lol

      The Bleeding Edge shall remain in BioSafeLevel-4 containment, like Ebola or Plague or Smallpox, lol

  33. Davie Dee

    Surface pro 2 here with windows 10 on it, and I have to say, one thing aside, I really like it, I've already installed it on just about everything from tablets to media centres and its good, looks good, and runs good too.

    Only niggle is the bloody Graphics drivers MS pushes out, serious problems here, that last firmware update has done nothing to fix them. Strictly speaking its an Intel thing but since MS goes out of their way to stop us using the Intel drivers and actively removes them at every opertunity I'm going to lay the blame at MSs feet. Fix the drivers!

    I don't have the issue on an AMD based system, just the Microsoft branded Surface Pro 2 tablet with the MS drivers

  34. Not That Andrew
    Mushroom

    Only slightly related , but goddamn it I'm getting pissed at all these goddamn updates for Win7 that are just compatibility patches for Win10! Can't those retards at MS design a proper fucking installer for that piece of shit? I was actually interested in Win10 but at the moment I'm so pissed off by those goddamn updates that I would be happy if everyone at MS died in a fire.

  35. moxberg
    Mushroom

    The Hare and the Hedgehog

    One can only hope the from now on red hot internet lines leave at least some bandwidth for the third party suppliers to get their own chore of half-cooked patches through to Redmond before the shit hits the fan big time.

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