"the new web browser that's the most standards-compliant effort ever to emerge from Redmond."
...Wouldn't be too hard to achieve, I guess, given their history!
Roll up, roll up for Windows 10, the greatest show on Earth! Forget everything you think you know or might have heard. THIS changes everything. Windows 7 and Windows 8? Pah. THIS is the one you want. Yes, the bandwagon on the Windows 10 hype machine is trundling along, and its online followers are hailing its game-changing …
"50% less crap!"
I can live with that. For work and gaming compatibility I'm trapped in Windozewurld (and in all honesty 8.1 is running pretty smoothly for me), but if they're starting to get to grips with the problems of backwards compatibility and the obvious solution, then I'm cool about huge tranches of ancient code being orphaned.
Maybe Nutella has got his head screwed on right, even if he can only communicate in Dilbertese.
Less people use BSD, OSX and Linux on the desktop than use Windows Phone so they must be totally irrelevant.
On the other hand, far more people use Linux on their phone or tablet (Android and some rarer variants) than use Windows Phone. Also, practically all network devices run some form of Linux or BSD internally (Windows is completely nonexistent in this space). Plus innumerable consumer devices like navigators, smart TV:s etc. run Linux. So Windows must be totally irrelevant...
"Less people use BSD, OSX and Linux on the desktop than use Windows Phone so they must be totally irrelevant."
The key phrase is "on the desktop". Even given that this questionable claim might just be true, the plain fact is that while Microsoft may own (some, a lot, most of?) the office desktop, they have no presence anywhere else. If taking a $7.6 billion write-down on Nokia demonstrates their strength in mobile, heaven knows what that tells us about the rest of the business.
Correct me if I am wrong, but did not MS only want to get into mobile in the first place because they foresaw the demise of the "irrelevant" desktop? Maybe MacroRodent has a point.....
"Less people use BSD, OSX and Linux on the desktop than use Windows Phone so they must be totally irrelevant."
Irreverent! Get it right Boyo! We're Irreverent!!!
Webster defines Irreverent: : having or showing a lack of respect for someone or something that is usually treated with respect : treating someone or something in a way that is not serious or respectful
MS Business skills=respect, but how in the name of the seven levels CAN you take their software SERIOUSLY?!?
Our IT department has given my team a migration date of late 2016, but it may slip into Q1 2017. That's migrating from XP to 7 by the way. Can't see a migration to 10 until all the service packs are released, it's out of mainstream support and Windows 13 is in the shops.
Our IT department has given my team a migration date of late 2016, but it may slip into Q1 2017. That's migrating from XP to 7 by the way.
Not questioning your assertion, but that strikes me as particularly tardy.
Roughly how many systems are involved?
If they're intending to use XP for another 12-18 months, what's their strategy for coping with security?
Got any details/BKMs you'd care to share?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Me too I can testify that in the part of the world where I happen to live, the provincial government is still on Windows XP with plans to migrate to Windows 8.1 next year. We're talking about many thousands of PCs. Security you say ? They've heard of that!
I really hope they have heard of security. I finished my time with a particular local authority doing (amongst other things) upgrades from XP to W7, a project that finished well before the end of life for XP because HMG decided that they would penalise us if we didn't (Gov Connect and all that sort of stuff).
So it was a real giggle when I heard that some government departments hadn't started upgrading by that time and were willing to ante up money to Redmond to keep their XP machines safe and secure!
Sounds like the head tech at your provincial government is a real wassock!
Don't let it get to you....
A lot of us are over fifty and have issues with "Get on the latest and greatest" bandwagon.
We're from the day when we tested solutions THEN sent them out into the Wild.
Running bleeding edge Problems waiting to happen is where we are at now.
Running what is touted as outdated and dangerous instead of educating peeps about how it can be safer than the new shit doesn't sell a lot of licenses......oh well.
Windows 10 ? already wiped my VM of the preview.
Win 8.1 ? utter crap.
Win7 ? It's what businesses and Governments are still migrating to and will be for a while.
I smell another Vista hidden in a Cloud.
Do we really need to list all the reasons why we don't want to go back to Terminals....er...I mean running everything from the Cloud ?
Do we really need to list all the reasons why we don't want to go back to Terminals....er...I mean running everything from the Cloud ?
It's worse than that. At least we knew where the main computer was that the terminal was attached to! (Well mostly!)
My coat is the one with the pocket full of replacement Wyse 85 power switches...
"Somebody round here doesn't like me."
Have a downvote for crying about downvotes, mate. (Seriously, who cares about votes, unless you're some politician, in which case you deserve nothing else.)
Voting here at El Reg has never followed any rational pattern, by the way.
Now, let the downvotes roll in...
Beer... because why the hell not!
... since some moron in Redmond decided to push "Get Windows 10" apps and telemetry as important updates, and turned Windows Update into a Window 10 propaganda machine. Also, the idea of an icon in the tray always there and you can't easily remove if you're not skilled enough is another very stupid one.
I understand their will to move as many people as they can to Windows 10 as soon as they can, but using a system designed to convey updates - and especially security updates, to promote it is really, really silly especially in these days where keeping your system secure is more important than ever. Using a notification system designed to show a user what it needs while working - not an upcoming upgrade coming in weeks, follows the same stupid path.
Nadella is attempting the tricks of a desperate seller, and it's not a good omen. It also shows a contempt for users I really dislike - but I'm not surprised it was introduced since it became the CEO.
Exactly the "important" update that has made me reconsider automatic Windows updates (not to mention essential telemetry features sprinkled onto existing systems). Now set to manual because MS can't be trusted (if they ever should be). Manual (with checking kb articles) is pain but still better than being force-fed on home revisions of Windows 10. Freedom of choice is chipped away bit by bit (as US citizens have found in recent years). No 10 for me.
My newest machine is my first Mac, and several of my older machines have been converted to Ubuntu now. (Yeah, I play with too many computers.) However, it was the (start of the) end of support for Windows 7 that pushed me over the edge, and I sincerely hope I never buy another Windows PC or Microsoft anything. Probably pick up a Chromebook when I need a fresh toy.
Having said that, I finally decided to attempt to upgrade one of my Windows 7 machines to Windows 10. It's performance had been upgraded down to terrible, so I'm willing to see if Windows 10 helps. However, I'd bet against it.
Why did it take so long to decide on the "free" upgrade? Because I don't believe "free" and "Microsoft" go well together, and I STILL want to know what is wrong with this picture. I'm sure it is NOT out of the goodness of their heart, even if they are trying to be less evil these days. "It's the money, Lebowski." But where is the money? I spent a while trying to figure it out, and I still can't.
First, we have to remember it has NEVER been the users. The big money came from the makers (and the savings in liability costs came from evading all liability in the EULA). MS wasn't going to sell many upgrades in any case, but now every delayed or deferred sale due to an upgrade is at least a slowdown in the revenue stream. This is especially problematic for the makers. Unlike MS, they are in a tough and competitive business, and I think that a couple of the big ones may fall down (and possibly even go boom) if their sales slump even a few percent for a few months...
Another scenario was OS unification for the future. I was willing to consider that theory until MS cut the phone side with the latest layoffs. Any unification approach has to be LCD, which meant increasing phone support, not reducing it. Or maybe I was just dreaming of a decent small kernel OS without all the unneeded cruft (and associated security vulnerabilities). The performance of the OSes passed my needs a LONG time ago, around the time I could juggle 4 or 5 programs at a time. Even for me, beyond that it's either overkill or showing off...
In conclusion, I still don't trust Microsoft.
Joed really hit the nail with that comment about "freedom of choice". (The "d" isn't for Dell, is it? If so, it's a smallish world.)
We are a Linux org mostly, but have a few VMs with XP for some stuff, and a couple of machines running Windows 7 for things with no viable Linux alternative. If you don't monkey with them they are stable & reliable, which is good.
Shame the update process is tedious, last time one machine needed two reboots for no obvious reason. WTF? :(
As others have mentioned, pushing a Win10 advert though the "security" updates is a distasteful trick, and if that is the new corporate model then Win 10 will only be worse for pushing crap you don't want/need upon you cloud-style. Another reason for us to stick with 7 until we see something better.
In preparation for Windows 10, however, Microsoft is killing support for legacy IE on the PC: Versions 8, 9 and 10 won't receive technical support or security updates from January 12, 2016.
And even if they decide to stop offering/supporting IE11 on Win7/8.x too, that's still not going to convince many people to upgrade to W10. All it will do is get people to install a better browser (eg Firefox or whatever).
Win 10 looks and operates in a very similar manner to Win 7. I'll give it 6 months of testing myself (have been as an insider since start of the year) and if there's no major known issues I'll be recommending it and deploying it.
The UI is far more similar to W7 than 8.1, same architecture since Vista in terms of deployment (.wim), same sys requirements and unless the devs are dicks and check for a winNT version number then drivers that worked as far back as Vista should be fine too.
Tried it on a Linx 10, a 5 year old i5 home built HTPC and now on a new Dell touchscreen laptop and not had a single issue driver wise.
If you're on XP still or even if you're on Win7 I don't see why you'd not be looking at Win10 within a few months.
Worth pointing out that now it's "as-a-service" there is no 'service pack' so pointless holding on for that to happen.
Skip 8/8.1, carry on with Win7 for 6 months then look at the landscape.
Architecturally there's not any major changes since Vista, so why not?
Why not? Personally, it's simple for me.. they haven't come out yet (though it's implied) that at some point this OS will be SoS. I've a few programs where the latest versions are like that and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay every month for something I'll use maybe twice a month... Same for the OS, let me buy it, on a DVD/CD and get over it.
Also.. the old rule of thumb about Service Pack 1. But since there's no service packs, it'll have to be a "wait and see".
Don't tax me monthly. I don't do Autopay, and other automatic monthly payment plans as I've been screwed over a couple of times. Never again.
At work, it'll be a totally different scenario which upper manglement will decide.
Here's a list for you:
- I don't want anything to do with cloud
- I don't want Microsoft app store
- I don't need a search assistant
- I don't want modern (Metro) apps
- I don't want forced updates
to show you I'm not that negative, there is something I really want: the choice to turn off all those things mentioned above.
My Windows XP machines are running just fine for now (don't care much about security cause they're all VMs), I have enough licenses for Windows 7 that will remain untouched till 2020 and beyond. After that, I'll sell my soul to some *nix/*bsd that will fulfill my computing needs till I'm retired. Of course I will run Windows 10.xxx if they will pay me to do that.
I've been trying to sort out a number of applications that I may need to try to resolve any problems that come up should any of my systems not work the way I'd want them to. That's besides making sure that they do not get signed up to the M$ Cloud and so forth.
Other than that, I'm in no hurry. Heck, I'm even typing this in on a Linux system using Firefox!
Have an up-vote for a reasoned post.
However, a lot of folk here don't like the model of MS pushing changes if you like it or not. Maybe they will relent. Maybe not as they want to be more like Apple (regular OS updates, no support beyond 2 versions or whatever, and LOTS of profits including the app store). I don't know.
All OS suck donkeyballs, really, but in my case I will stick with Win 7 if I need it, and Linux otherwise because I value my freedom to use the software as I want to. That is enough to accept the occasional hairy mouthful.
Tux, because we don't have a donkey icon.
Because of all the things you didn't mention.
The signing into Windows.com /Live, Just for logging into your PC never mind running Word 2013.
If you can't see what the multitude of services are doing to your privacy then so be it.
The Data Miners will have a field day will all your Devices linked up and available for dissection.
I'm running WIN7, Ubuntu and Mint and I doubt I'll ever see a need for Win10...,
Maybe I'll create a new VM just for the few Games that force me up into it down the road.
Now my Workplace ? We've been on Win7 for Two Years now and the Gov loves free Upgrades, so the Nightmare Pilot Project (where we'll be locking it down) is slated for next year.
I intend to buy many more Antacids tablets.
...never mind running Word 2013.
I will endeavor to avoid it. I have come to loathe Office 2013 starting immediately upon migration from the previous version. What's up with MS? Are they letting unpaid design school interns handle all decisions having to do with program and OS interfaces? I have managed to avoid the complete cluster that is Windows 8, barring one minor incident with an in-law's new tablet, but have had Office 2013 forced on me by my employer. It's an inconsistent dog with a menu system that takes up way more of the screen than is reasonable while doubling that amount of resources used (on the same hardware, in my case). As with many things the devil is in the details and the redesigned color scheme that makes it so very easy to confuse Word and Outlook is just one of many that make its use frustrating even after a few months of practice.
The new versions of Windows and Office be technically much better than the previous efforts, but they are apt to be the best thing anyone ever did for Linux and Libre Office.
But CIOs tell The Reg that if they do a desktop refresh, they'll move from Windows XP to Windows 7
I can't believe there are that many corporates still on XP. Those that are left are probably paying for extended support or praying that their security procedures are adequate.
But for many companies Windows 7 is there to stay. No one will be migrating this year that isn't getting a helping hand from Microsoft. Most CIOs will give it at least a year to see how the "public beta" works and what the market thinks of it. Any large scale migration will then be at least a year in the planning and another in the execution, giving Microsoft more time to fix issues. This is just how things worked with the move from XP to 7. Vista and 8 were the "thanks, but no thanks" versions.
New versions of Office on the other hand should do quite well.
"I can't believe there are that many corporates still on XP."
" Those that are left are probably paying for extended support..."
"...or praying that their security procedures are adequate."
Some probably are. Others just stumble on blindly. Most just apply sensible security procedures and get on with business.
I've got Win 7 Pro installed for gaming, I use Ubuntu for everything else because my work is largely unix-based. Mostly, I only boot into windows to either use AnyDVD to rip a stubborn purchase or to play a game. If AnyDVD continues to work on W10, and I won't have to spend hours and hours restoring access to my primary OS after the upgrade, *and* I can turn off all the cloud shite, then I'm happy to do a free upgrade after I see how its gone for the early adopters (real ones, not tech enthusiasts messing with beta releases).
 I found a handy MS advice page on dual booting.
I bought a blu-ray drive when I built this machine, what a waste of money that turned out to be. Can't use it for shit in Linux, Windows requires me to buy a load of crap. Computers are SHITE these days.
Myself and i'm sure, other admins that are in tune with users know when an OS works or not. I have called correctly all the bum versions and frankly 10 makes me scream in frustration at the screen.
I have already advised my client base that unless there is a clear business need to upgrade to 10, I will not move anyone off 7.
Yesterday I read an article (possibly off zdnet) that said MS was still allowing downgrade rights from 10 to 7 until 2020. That works for me.
From Techradar-Pro and a few other sites :-
Quote - What if you downloaded Windows 10 on July 29 and have buyer's remorse after trying out the operating system?
Like most purchases, Microsoft is giving you a 30-day purchase window to decide if Windows 10 is right for you. If you find out that you didn't like Windows 10, you can simply rollback to whatever version of Windows that was on your system before you decided to dive head-first into Microsoft's new world.
The rollback feature isn't new, and Microsoft had provided this option in early preview builds of Windows 10 to testers in the Windows Insider program.
However, the most recent Build 10240 release, which is believed to be the Windows 10 release sent to manufacturers, or the RTM build, comes with language stating that you have a month to downgrade. Preview builds did not have this time stipulation.
"This option is only available for a month after you upgrade to Windows 10," Microsoft warns on Build 10240.- End Quote
That will add to the train wreck that's a coming , when Joe Public realizes what is happening and has no way back - Worst marketing practice ever - trap them while they are not looking , Joe Public won't read the EULA anyway
Like most purchases, Microsoft is giving you a 30-day purchase window to decide if Windows 10 is right for you.
Sorry, mate. You missed the entire point. This OP is asking about the right to use the Windows 10 license to run previous Windows versions, like so many did with Windows 8.x. ZDNet covers that and other tidbits:
As with all recent Windows releases, buying a PC with a Professional version of Windows installed by the OEM includes the right to downgrade to either of the two earlier versions, in this case Windows 7 Professional or Windows 8.1 Pro.
Depends on the size of his client base
Whilst I agree major manufacturers will provide downgrade rights to an earlier OS on new kit and even ship PC's with Win 8.1 or Win 7 pre-installed instead of 10
The fact remains that the ordinary user and some SMB's won't have that right .
While businesses with Pro licenses have extraordinary flexibility when it comes to upgrading and downgrading, all other Windows consumer users and some SMB customers are faced with limited options.
For one year, Microsoft is allowing consumers and some businesses with systems running Genuine Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 a free upgrade to Windows 10. But when we asked: Once you upgrade for free to Windows 10, is it possible to downgrade back to Windows 8 or 7 without having to buy a new OS license? Microsoft said those who upgrade to Windows 10 for free will have one month to revert back to the old OS on their device.
Published JULY 15, 2015
if the s/w I commonly use still worked on Windows 2000. As far as stability, Windows never got any better IMO. I still keep the system running, because Windows 7 lacks drivers for my perfectly good scanner and laser printer. I guess it all depends on your definition of "progress."
Windows 2000 was the last time I Blue screened Windows because of a program I was running (which I programmed), it wasn't the last time I had a lock up, that was the 64 bit version of XP, it hated my sound drivers (sound blaster sound card). I have had no problems with Win8 and I do plan on upgrading to 10 when it released. Every printer I have had to dump is because of lack of drivers, that the only problem I have had with windows in a decade, it been lack of drivers after I upgrade the OS. I use Windows on my gaming PC and Linux on all the rest of my computers. Just have up get my Raspberry Pi 2 up and running with Linux as soon as my new SD card come in.
The forced automatic updates would be a deal breaker for me. I know there's too many people who just turn them off then NEVER update... but...
Linux (Ubuntu, and when I ran gentoo, that too), I go ahead and install the updates... but I don't want the system to just install them whenever. Windows, there's been enough updates that just plain break something or other that I don't like the idea of forced updates at all. (Remember, Windows does not have proper package management, you'd have to "roll back" the whole system, you can't just install the non-updated version of some package that has a broken update...) Of course, with Win10, if you had a broken update and roll back, it'll just re-install the same broken update whenever it feels like it.
I also get the distinct impression (from using it in a VM as well as reading about it) that Win10 is being seriously rushed out, and that they may not even see this as a problem. As many bugs as some Windows versions have had on release, it looks like now their attitude is to rush the software out then just dump on tons of patches... giving me the distinct impression that Win10 will be far buggier on release... and if you want something resembling stability (in both senses of the word... lack of crashes etc., and stability in terms of not having things move around and behaviors change...) you are expected to buy some corporate version. Makes me glad I don't use Windows!
It was just toooo time consuming for me to migrate Windows to a new Intel SSD on one laptop, and too hard to find the OEM Windows install on my other laptop that the HDD died on.
I would prefer to use Windows on both laptops, but Microsoft made it hard to do a clean install, whereas Ubuntu installed and ran immediately.
One question that really comes to mind.
Does Microsoft really still want desktop and laptop users to keep Windows on their systems?
A lot of the tidbits that have been coming out in the days before release sound an awful lot like some of the half-arsed ideas that they tried with the XBone, and look where that got them. Could it just be that they want rid of us altogether so they can launch another all-out attack on the fondle-market?
Current status: 3 x W7, 3 x Linux, 1 x W10 Upgrade app visible.
I've only used linux for a few years, but this seems like a real hassle.
Adverts coming through security updates?
Everything in the cloud?
I'm not here to convince people to use linux but... wouldn't you rather use a OS where the people who wrote it follow the same ideals as you do?
If not well, good luck. I'd hate to be toyed with like that :\
ESPECIALLY those outside of the US. MS has made it abundantly clear that EVERYTHING you do on Windows 10...especially if you use features like "Cortana", WILL be uploaded to their servers and WILL be shared with whoever they wish, including the US government. I don't see many Fortune 500 companies, or indeed ANY foreign governments, adopting Windows 10 for these reasons! It's "free" they say! UPGRADE NOW! (and don't mind the man behind the curtain, collecting all of your data)...
I have been reading enough that I will recommend to friends and family they avoid W10 altogether. When they need to upgrade or replace kit the only viable options are Ubuntu or one of its derivatives or Apple with a strong push to Linux.
Corporations will only allow the data they approve to be shipped off to the cloud or anywhere else for that matter - there is management and security software which can be installed and other devices which sit between a client and Microsoft's back end to keep everything in check. In my company our Windows 10 builds (apart from insider programme testers) will have no direct connection to Microsoft at all - they are all fully managed - that is how we operate in the enterprise. We control everything.
I noticed on some older Windows netbook type machines a huge increase in system load (from <10% to >50%) with no applications running. I traced it to the update service and the W10 migration updates. Killing the service and patching the registry to keep the updates from automatically reloading was more than a little bothersome. I wonder how many home users with older machines have experienced a sudden decrease in response time and usability? Probably many millions.
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