back to article Account at HSBC? BAD LUCK, no iPhone bonk-banking for you

British high street bank HSBC denies it has been frozen out of Apple Pay, after its customers were surprised to learn they could not join in the mass British bonk-banking bonanza earlier today. In a statement, HSBC told the Register it had always been the plan to launch at the end of July. The bank also insisted the two-week …

  1. toffer99

    Ought to be grateful, I suppose. Seen HSBC's record on money-laundering? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC

    1. N13L5

      Re: Ought to be grateful

      I'm sure there is no better business for a bank than money laundering - with the exception of instigating wars, financing both sides and after enough wars, having every country in a mountain of debt, soaking up the lion's share of tax revenue, thus pressing out populations around the world like lemons. Capitalism and Communism are nothing but less obvious, less visible systems of slavery. Both were invented by the same people in a wildly successful divide and conquer scheme.

      As far as HSBC goes, I like it if they do no bonking and other cashless "convenience" features introduced in order to ween us off cash. I'll have you know that the plan is, to remove all currency that's not electronic. I.e. the type you can stash under your mattress or some such place, where banks can't block you from using it and spooks can't trace your transaction buying coffee at 7/11 if for any reason the next dictatorship doesn't like you anymore.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No Coop / Smile ApplePay Support

    I am a long time Smile Bank user (Credit / Bank) and there is no Apple Pay support coming from them. It's very disappointing and watching the perks and benefits of banking with them slowly being whittled away.

    They used to be ahead of the curve when it came to Online Banking - now they are way behind.

    Very Disappointing but looks like I'll be moving to Nationwide.

    I'm posting this in the hope that there are some Coop Techies out there that can light a fire under the people who make these decisions who probably don't know what an iPhone is or what value the High Earning Tech engaged have to companies.

    C.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No Coop / Smile ApplePay Support

      "They used to be ahead of the curve when it came to Online Banking - now they are way behind"

      since when has pay by bonk (contactless) been an "online" feature?

      does my debit card connect to the internet whilst I touch it?

      1. Phil W

        Re: No Coop / Smile ApplePay Support

        "does my debit card connect to the internet whilst I touch it?"

        Only if your finger is NFC enabled.

    2. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: No Coop / Smile ApplePay Support

      "I'll be moving to Nationwide."

      Good luck with that!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Meh

      Re: No Coop / Smile ApplePay Support

      I must remember these key things when looking for a new bank account.

      1. Ability to wave expensive device around in public to possibly save 5 seconds.

      2. Everything else.

      1. MrXavia

        Re: No Coop / Smile ApplePay Support

        I don't get it.. HOW will this save any time? either I pull out my phone or wallet... with my wallet I can choose from half a dozen different cards, from 4 different providers to pay with, can I do that with apple pay?

        I find it odd that phone payments never took off with google/windows phones, yet apple seems to wave its wand and everyone wants to use it...

        1. jonathanb Silver badge

          Re: No Coop / Smile ApplePay Support

          I was able to set up Apple Pay in about 3 minutes this morning while on the bus, and use it to buy breakfast when I got off the bus. The other offerings require you to set up new accounts, load them with money, get special SIM cards or sticky tags and things like that.

          I'm not sure that I'll use it again for shop purchases, but being able to do on-line purchases without entering my card details certainly seems like a useful feature.

    4. Warm Braw Silver badge

      Re: No Coop / Smile ApplePay Support

      The state of the Coop Bank's IT systems is only one of many points of contention with the regulators. I doubt that support for Apple Pay is high on their list of priorities, given their more pressing concerns,

  3. Blitheringeejit

    I was going to leave HSBC, but now I'm not so sure....

    If they are going to boycott the insane trend to enable bank account access from horribly insecure mobile devices over which we have no admin control, as far as I'm concerned that's an upvote for them.

    Of course it barely registers against the massive downvotes they get for money-laundering and generally being a bunch of bankers - but as there's no real option for ethical banking left since the Coop went titsup, I might as well stick with the devil I know...

    1. Annihilator
      WTF?

      Re: I was going to leave HSBC, but now I'm not so sure....

      Delivering 2 weeks late is a "boycott" these days? I must remember that next time my project delivers late!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I was going to leave HSBC, but now I'm not so sure....

      It's more secure than waving your credit card infant of the reader with NO human auth at all..... Silly boy....

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    NFC? No thanks.

    I am personally at a loss to explain why anyone would pay upwards of £400 (conservatively) to replace an NFC enabled credit card which most people do not want either (especially not those that are aware of the risks).

    If you spend a bit of money on an RFID-safe wallet you have control over emissions as well, and you're less likely to have it ripped out of your hand when using it for other things like (gasp) making a phone call on account of it having a nice resale value for thieves.

    There is even e better method for securing NFC enabled cards: not getting them in the first place. Card providers are apparently not permitted to make the presence of NFC mandatory, and as far as I can see you ought to be grateful for that.

    I realise that not getting an NFC capable phone may make you look like you're not really "in" with the latest trends, but in this case that is IMHO a very good thing indeed. Apple Pay, Google Pay, anyone's "Pay" - if it needs NFC, you don't want it.

    Just say no.

    1. sugerbear

      Re: NFC? No thanks.

      On the other hand, if you don't wear a tinfoil hat, don't live in a iPhone mugging hotspot (like London) and have an iPhone 6 then it's really easy to add your credit card and use it to pay for stuff.

      That is what you are doing at the end of the day and my iPhone is a damn sight slimmer than my NFC Card/Cash stuffed wallet, plus so far I have to use my thumb to authorise every transaction, no big deal and easier than having to shiel my PIN at the POS terminal. Now (hopefully) the merchants will start to roll out more contactless terminals and make my life even easier.

      I didn't buy my phone to use it to pay for stuff, but it's a very nice feature to have.

      1. g e

        Re: NFC? No thanks.

        My wallet is easier to pull out than something the size of my S4 and I don't need to 'thumb it', just placing the wallet by the PDQ machine does the job (yes, there's only one NFC card in the wallet).

        The bank sent me that card (ostensibly) for free, too, saving 500+ quid. Bonus.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: NFC? No thanks.

          "just placing the wallet by the PDQ machine does the job"

          That's nothing - a good hacker can do it from several meters away without you needing to pull your wallet out...

          1. Oh Matron!

            Re: NFC? No thanks.

            Indeed. And if ALL of the cards in your wallet are NFC enabled........

          2. sugerbear

            Re: NFC? No thanks.

            [quote]That's nothing - a good hacker can do it from several meters away without you needing to pull your wallet out...[/quote]

            I think i might notice if this "good hacker" pulled my iphone out then managed to get my thumb on the button for a good 10 seconds all without me notice, I dont think "good hacker" even comes it, maybe this hacker is actually a stealth ninja hypnotist in which case why wouldn't they just hypnotise me then get me a bank and withdrawing all my money.

    2. Fitz_

      Re: NFC? No thanks.

      Speak for yourself. I like NFC and it's a major timesaver for small purchases where you just want to pay and move on. Obviously there are some security concerns, but ApplePay is more secure than a regular card (or bPay, or any 'pay' where there is a static RFID number) as firstly, ApplePay only spits out the NFC number *after* you authorise it with a fingerprint (or entering your passcode) but secondly the number is different every time. Both would defeat someone with a reader that would be able to get your card details by simply managing to touch it to where you keep your card, or even if you lost your phone.

    3. Annihilator
      Facepalm

      Re: NFC? No thanks.

      "I am personally at a loss to explain why anyone would pay upwards of £400 (conservatively) to replace an NFC enabled credit card which most people do not want either (especially not those that are aware of the risks)."

      Because they're not buying their phone to replace their credit card, it's just a bonus feature? Do you honestly think people rushed out to buy an iPhone 6 based purely on the upcoming Apple Pay?

  5. D@v3
    Joke

    Air 2

    Looking forward to rummaging around in my bag so that I can pay with my iPad, can't be any dafter than using the damn thing as a camera , no?

    1. Fitz_

      Re: Air 2

      People seem to miss the part where you can use Apple Pay to buy things with apps such as Just Eat for example. It's not just for bipping onto the Tube which would indeed be ridiculous with an iPad.

    2. jonathanb Silver badge

      Re: Air 2

      You can't pay-by-bonk with an iPad, however you can use Apple Pay to do online payments. For example if you are doing some on-line shopping, you can pay for it using Apple Pay rather than type in your credit card details.

  6. Iain Gilbert

    Whilst I can see the point in backwaters where you have to sign a slip like some sort of animal and chip and pin is just some sort of fevered madman's dream but I don't really see how this is a big deal in the UK/Europe with pay wave and chip and pin.

    Only advantage I can see if IF I forget my wallet I can still buy crisps.

    1. 2+2=5 Silver badge
      Joke

      > Only advantage I can see if IF I forget my wallet I can still buy crisps.

      All I need now is a GSM enabled credit card so that I can make phone calls if I forget my phone.

      1. Iain Gilbert

        Now that idea I like!

        But can I still buy crisps with it?

      2. Joe Montana

        Sounds like you want a BT Phonecard!

  7. Graham Dawson

    "all those wasted moments finding the right card"

    I have two. Credit. Debit. They're in my wallet, which is in my pocket. Unless iPhone users walk around with their phones literally glued to their hands and have the bonkpay app open all the time I don't think I'm going to be suffering any comparative delay finding my money.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "all those wasted moments finding the right card"

      "have the bonkpay app open all the time"

      You don't need the bonkpay app open. You present the phone to the reader in the same way you do with a card, the NFC chip in the phone is energised by the reader, triggering the app to launch, you select a card/authorise the payment with your thumb, it makes the payment.

      I hear you can use the Watch (if you have one) instead of the phone, so in that use-case, it would be effectively glued to your hand.

      1. MrXavia
        Facepalm

        Re: "all those wasted moments finding the right card"

        And when your battery is dead from playing a game, and you've forgotten your normal wallet.. you can't pay....

        1. Richard Taylor 2 Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: "all those wasted moments finding the right card"

          But if you have forgotten your normal wallet and don't have pay-by-bonk you are stuffedanyway

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    wasted moments finding the right card

    I can tell in a split second whether I want to pay using the one and only debit card in my wallet, or the one and only credit card. I can see them and they are easily accessible. If I want to pay for expensive items, then the credit card comes out, bringing with it the extra consumer protection it gives. Shopping goes on the debit card.

    Now, the question is, is it quicker to select one of two cards from a wallet or unlock your phone, open the Apple Pay app, select which card to pay with, and then wave it around? Replace Apple with Google et al, the same problem occurs.

    The argument that you can leave a bulky wallet at home and pay with your phone also fails. The lack of take up from numerous banks, and presumably from vast swathes of the retail sector, means you have to take your wallet, or buy from a small handful of shops only.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: wasted moments finding the right card

      As above, you don't need to unlock the phone/select which card. Touching the phone to the reader triggers the app to launch.

      As for retail sector support, majority of the wave-terminals by default support Apple Pay.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The big advantage that everyone seems to miss is the tokenisation, i.e. your bank card details are never given to the payment terminal or the vendor and so can't be nicked. You also don't get your card out and you don't have to type your pin number in with everyone watching. Extend this to using apple pay to buy goods online and in apps and all of a sudden you never have to transmit your actual card details or type in your cvc or pin number.

    Yes the convenience of holding your phone or apple watch to a device is touted as the reason - but the security is a step up above all existing payment methods, imo

    1. jonathanb Silver badge

      If you read the TFL stuff about Apple Pay - https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-contactless-payment/apple-pay?intcmp=29634 it seems they do know which card you used to pay. They know if you have done loads of journeys with the same phone in that day/week and therefore are entitled to get the rest of the journeys that day/week for free. You can also enter your card details on their website and get details of the journeys you made and how much you were charged for them.

      1. Loud Speaker

        And if TFL Know?

        Presumably there are a large number of hackers who will soon have these details.

        The main lesson from the Snowdon affair was: absolutely no one can keep a secret.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Working on Android

    HSBC appears in Tap and Pay menu once you install HSBC app on a NFC enabled phone running KitKat or later.

    As usual, apple years behind, but the press are oblivious to that.

  11. Ironclad

    Solution looking for a problem that isn't there

    Of all the things that hold me up in queues for groceries/coffee/sundries it's not the 2 seconds it takes someone to get their wallet/purse out and wave a card at the reader.

    When I can take goods off the shelf, wave my phone at them and enter my PIN/fingerprint, walk out of the shop (without triggering alarms and an armed response unit) and have it automatically billed to my bank then we're getting somewhere.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple Pay at HSBC?

    That'll be with their Windows Phone mobile banking app.

    Massive FAIL HSBC!

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