Re: @LucreLout - Can you guess what I'm going to say Tim...?
You know, LucreLout, sometimes I have to wonder if you're a Matt Bryant Sock Puppet, since you and he have the same debating tactics of shifting the goalposts or insulting people's intelligence to avoid conceding a point.
Who on earth is Matt Bryant?
I'd gladly concede a point were you to make one that passed muster, unfortunately I feel that is becoming increasingly unlikely.
Rowing boats? Yes, they fit in the same general classification of craft as Luxury Yachts, but I don't think the skills needed to build them are quite the same, are they?
In what way do you imagine they differ? Pick one single skill that is required to maufacture a rowing boat that is not required in yacht building? There seems to be none. Meaning the workers already posess the fullness of skills and capital required to begin as business owners, no?
I have no love for Labour
First you must convince yourself of this, then you may try to convince others. Right now its sounding awfully hollow.
Fine, if it makes you happy, it's a bonus, not a "pay rise". Feeling better now?
If you don't understand the difference, and therefore why you were wrong both in making the point and in not now conceding you've lost that argument, then that A-level is looking still more shaky.
I understand perfectly well how capitalism *can* function and does, indeed, function in the minds of those who think that labour is simply another resource which needs to be chiseled down to the lowest possible level to make it as cheap as it can be in order to maximise profits.
Wow. You're actually almost half way there now (except for the emotive second half). Think ahead to where the rest of the money goes - to reinvestment in the company, thus securing jobs for the future, and to the company owners in the form of dividends. What, prey tell, prevents the workers buying shares in the company to capture a stake in those cashflows? Yep, nothing. Nothing at all. Capitalism works, because they have the opportunity to participate in their employers success, or mine, or yours, and I too have that opportunity; There's no closed shop. Its simple and its fair. I have shares in my employer for exactly this reason.
I'm saying that those at the top who are paying themselves nice big salaries and bonuses shouldn't forget the ones at the bottom of the ladder who are actually doing the work that *earns* that money
Your assumption that those "at the top" are not also "doing the work that *earns* that money" is principally where you're going wrong.
maybe paying them, at the least, a Living Wage instead of the government mandated Minimum Wage might actually make things better
From where does this man of straw arise? There is nothing in the article nor prior comments that imply the yacht builders are or would be on minimum wage. The living wage is just as much an arbitrary number as the minimum wage, moreso in fact.
My mate, with the boat building company, would love to pay his guys minimum wage, only theres no chance at all they'd consider working for it. Just as they'd love him to pay them £250k per year, but there's no chance at all he could afford to do it. Its a trade, literally in this case, but its a trade of some of their time and efforts for some of his money.
they might even work harder because you get more from loyalty than fear
Nobody should go to work in fear. Soldiers, perhaps at times must, but everyone else should be unafraid at work. Poor management is most certainly not a function of employees wages though.
That being said, if you want loyalty, buy a dog. I don't want my teams loyalty. I want their brains, their talent, their committed effort for 8 hours a day, and I want them to do that for the salary the company is offering. The company, for it is not mine, requires and wants no such loyalty - it's just not a feature they value nor could monetise. They value my loyalty at zero, and so they do not have it - I'd leave tomorrow if I was offered a 20% rise elsewhere, and they'd replace me just as fast if someone would do the job for 20% less. Why do you see that as somehow wrong?
If you cannot understand this, then I pity you.
You confuse agreement with understanding. Not very rational.
then you can go back to counting your money and seeing how good that makes you feel.
In the words of Kenny Rogers "You never count your money when you're sitting at the table, there'll be time enough for counting when the dealings done". The dealing is decidely not yet done.
Or as I prefer to think of it, there's so much more to life than money. Which is why I find it so puzzling that you lefties get so irrationally obsessed with other peoples money, when it simply isn't your business.
Capitalism is a simple game. Workers who understand the rules can do very well out of playing it, just as business owners may. Those who don't first take time to properly understand the game can play it for a lifetime and never get to what they define as winning, and that is not the fault of the game but the player.