back to article New Windows 10 will STAGGER to its feet, says Microsoft OS veep

At the Build shindig in San Francisco this week, Joe Belfiore – Microsoft's corporate veep for operating systems – talked The Register through the release of Windows 10: when it will arrive, how it will arrive, and why you should use it. Belfiore was keen to squash dates leaked by hardware manufacturers – AMD's chief suggested …

  1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Telling words

    We need them to think that we’re trying to build a product that is for them

    Do they think we were born yesterday?

    They know full well what W7 users want. Thousands of forum posts since W8 was released has told them loud and clear.

    Will they listen? That is the question.

    The releases so far have (IMHO) been very mixed. More of a case of 'now you see it, now you don't'

  2. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

    “We’re going to take that thing that you like, we’re going to give you something that’s familiar, but just works better. It’s going to boot faster, it’s going to have better performance, you’re going to have a personal digital assistant there to answer any question for you at any time, you’re not going to have to relearn anything, and all of your apps are still going to run,” he says.

    Why indeed?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      For me the key words are we’re going to give you something that’s familiar, but just works better

      If that is the measure of when Windows 10 will be good enough to seriously tempt Windows 7 users to upgrade then, by the progress they've made so far, I believe it will be 6 months at least before it is ready.

      That means that it will likely be a Christmas push based on new machines, followed maybe by an upgrade push a few months later when the new OS has wowed the public.

      1. Kev99 Bronze badge

        Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

        Don't forget, you'll probably also need to double or triple your RAM and HD capacity just to load the bugger. Each version of Windows is always fatter than the previous.

        1. Siv

          Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

          Actually ever since Vista the horsepower required to run each successive Windows version has gone down! Mainly because they were moving from PC to Tablet as the device it would be running on so it had to be much lighter.

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

            Actually ever since Vista the horsepower required to run each successive Windows version has gone down!

            I doubt I will be able to dust down an ancient XP box (circa 2001) and install Win 10 on it and expect any meaningful performance (by today's standards)...

            1. Bluto Nash

              Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

              Erm, I've got it running on an Atom based netbook, and except for the absolutely atrocious disk I/O (controller only handles 1.5Gb/s SATA) it's at least as "snappy" as the XP Home it originally came with. It's given the 'book a new lease on life and made it usable again.

          2. Charles Manning

            horsepower required to run each successive Windows version has gone down...

            ... mainly because nobody bothers to run it.

            1. h4rm0ny

              You can't turn Cortana off?

              Surely this must be possible. It would be insane not to be able to. I'll be back on Gentoo if that's the case. But I can't believe they would do something this stupid.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: You can't turn Cortana off?

                "I can't believe they would do something this stupid."

                have you looked at Microsoft's Track record recently.

                WIndows 8 = stupidity score 100% they are just trying for a higher percentage......!

                will have to get a copy of windows 10 from a country where Cortana is not available as i believe they are free of this rubbish and then change the language files or at least hope someone else does it ......

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @JustaKOS - Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

        IF the new OS has wowed the public...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @JustaKOS - Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

          Ah yes, IF would have been a better choice.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      HUUUUUMMMMMMM.

      No mention of more secure than Windows 7. which apart from not being windows 8 is what we really want.

      I PRAY that we can turn (Cortana) the "personal digital assistant there to answer any question for you at any time" OFF or remove it altogether. Dont want it Dont need it. If i need a question answering there is wikipedia or Google both will be far superior to the search done by the personal digital assistant using Bing.

    3. x 7

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      "and all of your apps are still going to run "

      I don't have "apps". I have programs........Are they going to run?

      1. Mikel

        Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

        If your favorite program is Microsoft Media Center then no, it is not going to run. They've killed it.

    4. Wade Burchette

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      From my testing, Windows 7 is miles ahead of Windows 10 still. Windows 7 respects my privacy; Win10 does not. This reason alone makes Windows 7 better. What I really really hate is how the search bar in the start menu searches Bing first and then your programs and files second. It should never ever search the web, ever. If I want to search the web I will use a web browser. I view this as a way to track you. And Cortana may be nice, but she won't work unless you surrender your privacy. I realize I cannot escape all this tracking but it doesn't mean I should give up. But there are more reasons why W7 is better.

      W7 has the option of full Aero; Win10 currently does not and it is beginning to look less hopeful that it will. W7 has a customizable start menu; Win10 has the Win10 way or the highway. W7 has an easy to find system restore. W7 has a full backup program; Win10 does not. W7 has a working F8 at boot. This is the second reason why W7 is miles superior to Win10. Whoever thought disabling the feature used to fix machines was a good idea needs to be smacked in the head every day.

      1. bean520

        Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

        "Windows 7 respects my privacy; Win10 does not."

        Put this into perspective, mate, you are running a developer preview with an EULA saying you basically MUST provide that data. Windows 7 is a finished product that doesn't need that kind of testing therefore gives you the option of turning feedback off.

    5. Trigonoceps occipitalis

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      "Bill, are you listening to me?"

      Of course "Bill" is the twee name I've given my computer, definitely not an MS server farm in Wisconsin (as if).

    6. Andy Livingstone

      Re: Why bother upgrading from Windows 7?

      That verbiage is so similar to the drivel of politicians in the forthcoming election.

  3. frank ly Silver badge

    I'm too old for this

    I've been away from Windows for two years having moved from Windows 7 to Linux Mint. I tried the Windows 10 Technical Preview and it was like an alien world. I tried to mount/map my network storage devices and it saw them but I couldn't access them. I never had any problem like that with Win XP or Win 7 or with Linux. I managed to install Firefox and I tried to make a 'shortcut' but it asked me if I was sure I wanted to run it every time I clicked the shortcut icon. I gave up at that point.

    1. returnmyjedi

      Re: I'm too old for this

      Unfinished software in not-fully-functioning shocker. Film at eleven.

    2. BobChip
      Linux

      Re: I'm (NOT) too old for this

      No you're not - age gives you experience, perspective and judgement. Which is why you you followed the path you did.

      I abandoned MS when Vista came along. Ubuntu (V 8, maybe?) was better, but only just, and was quite hard work. Now, Mint 17 LTS is a joy to live with, and I shudder whenever I am asked to fix a windows machine - knowing that I have hours of slow pain ahead of me. I cannot conceive of ever going back to MS for an operating system.

      P.S. I am "retired", sort of, and 71

    3. BobChip
      Linux

      Re: I'm too old for this

      Interesting. I switched to Linux some six(?) years ago - pushed by Vista - and have stayed there. While Win 7 is frankly pretty good, a hard look at Win 8 and a brief glance at 10 have convinced me that I really am better off staying with Linux. For the rare occasion when I need to use old Win software, VirtualBox and an old copy of XP or 7 (internet access and updates turned OFF) do the job perfectly well. Mint 17 LTS wins hands down, and once you have experienced the incredibly slick Linux update procedure, compared to the grinding pain of Win updates with nags and reboots etc, well.....

  4. quarky

    Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

    "We are concerned with both, but the higher volume of people are the Windows 7 people, and the Windows 8 people are more likely to be tech enthusiasts and more adaptable."

    It is pretty sad that so many IT people don't seem to be tech enthusiasts these days. That isn't a dig that those who dislike Windows 8, or those on El Reg, but a reflection of the sad state of many IT people these days.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

      I can't speak for everyone, but I know I tried both the Win8 and Win10 betas and just decided it's not for me. The backend improvements are just too minor compared to the disappointment I feel about the new UI and apps.

      I still want a categorized start menu (even if I have to do it myself) and less useless chrome on the windows (translucency makes the problem much less noticeable, apps that waste space make it more so.) And their choice of UI colors make my eyes bleed. I assume MS will address some of the problems with slow and crashing apps though.

      1. Cliff

        Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

        I think my IT heritage is pretty strong, I could programming in assembler for the 6502 and x86 processors, borrowed a ZX80 before buying a ZX81, so I will put up with a lot of shit from my technology. I dislike Windows 8, or rather some of its more idiotic features.

        My current laptop has a nice i5 abacus that can do (thanks to a windowing environment) many things at the same time, but by default, some things launch in a Metro/Modern full screen modal popup, as if it was a dumb small screen device. I don't even take that from my phone any more, Samsung cured that with the Note series. Simple idea, I wanted to look at an email and spreadsheet whilst running a voice call on skype - not a controversial workflow - and the full screen app skype thing (full screen, 1000+ line 17" monitor, with maybe a handful of functionality and an acre of whitespace) means by default I have to rely on a second monitor. Ridiculous.

        I cannot wait for Win 10 hoping it cuts this misery of guessing which buttons you need for which programmes because the others make it look backwards. Ballmer had to go after that abomination.

        1. xenny

          Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

          I have a horrid feeling you'll never read this, but you can drag Metro apps down to take up say 1/3 of the screen, leaving the classic windows desktop taking up the other 2/3. No need for a second monitor at all

          1. Mephistro Silver badge
            Happy

            Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT. (@ xenny)

            "...you can drag Metro apps down to take up say 1/3 of the screen..."

            If it wants a third of my screen, TIFKAM will have to take it from my cold, dead hands. ;-)

            And I think the concept you are trying to express here is not 'tech enthusiasts' but 'tech hipsters'.

          2. jonathanb Silver badge

            Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

            Windows 2 introduced this amazing thing called overlapping windows where you could make the windows any size you want and put them anywhere on the screen. Do we really want to go back to the days of the original 1.0 release of Windows?

            1. Mikel

              Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

              Windows 1.0 was text based. And it, too had overlapping windows.

              1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

                Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

                > Windows 1.0 was text based. And it, too had overlapping windows.

                Wrong on both counts. Windows 1.0 was graphical. Though there was more text than graphics the text was not in the 80x25 grid of the text interfaces.

                """Windows 1.0 does not allow overlapping windows. Instead all windows are tiled. Only dialog boxes can appear over other windows."""

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0

              2. x 7

                Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

                DOS was text based

                Windows 1 was .......err.........Windows! (though very simplistic)

              3. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

                >Windows 1.0 was text based

                I think that is what would be called functional minimalism today... It would probably present a challenge to those who've grown up on 'txtspeak' and icon driven UI's...

            2. TCook1943

              Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

              Lets keep our fingers crossed that it does not turn out to be a repeat of Windows 1 where NOTHING worked.

              Given MS form since though we might as well whistle in the wind.

          3. td97402

            Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

            WHy does a calculator app have to take up 1/3 of the screen again? Microsoft really wanted us to buy into the Metro app thing with their half-baked release of Windows 8. Perhaps the Metro apps are great on a phone or small tablet but you missed the point of the original post. Many of us have reasonable complex workflows and the Metro environment just was not suited. Windows isn't Windows without Windows!

            Before you point out the Windows 10 allows Metro apps to run in Windows I must warn you I've got the preview running right here. Metro apps are overly large on screen because all the UI elements are double spaced for thumb friendliness (touch) even when I am not in tablet mode. The damn calculator app insists on taking up twice the space of the now MIA calculator program of Windows 7 and that is just one example.

            I would have been OK with a Metro emulator to allow me to run Metro apps on my desktop PC. I resent the complete makeover of the full Windows UI to cater to the tablet monkeys.

        2. Thomas Letherby

          Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

          You could always use Skype for desktop, if you want it on your desktop, instead of Skype for TIFKAM, which is for when you don't...

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Alert

      Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

      The funny thing is you're forced to be a tech enthusiast if you want to do anything with Windows 8 like get a usable start menu. Woe betide you if you're not and you just want a computer that works the way they've worked since the early 80s (before if you include Xerox Parc). Do MS really know their customers?

      And upgrading from Windows 7 to some moving target work-in-progress sounds like more of the same. This sounds like it's just not ready and when it finally is it could look like anything. If anyone's got any sense they'll wait 11 months before considering upgrading, tech enthusiast or otherwise.

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

        If then, it will be never for me.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tech enthusiast, not necessarily IT.

      I found the original words "...the Windows 8 people are more likely to be tech enthusiasts and more adaptable" puzzling because my interpretation of the phrase is people who delight in the advance of technology.

      Windows 8 was certainly different, but an advance? Clearly not for most enthusiasts who gave it a go and panned it heavily.

      Your comment clarified it for me, I think. If you mean a "Tech Enthusiast" is someone who uncritically accepts the latest shiny stuff to come out, then yes - there's not many of them about here.

    4. Charles Manning

      Why I don't want to be their kind of "tech enthusiast"

      I am not a luddite. I have been developing software and embedded systems for over 30 years.

      I **like** software. I **like** new software when it enables new things to be accomplished.

      However sw is a TOOL. It must be useful. Just changing sw for the sake of change and for no good use is not exciting.

      Their type of "tech enthusiast" is the sort of person that gets a stiffy from knowing that ALT-CTRL-X does something on Win8.x that. They're the sort of people who do case mods and their script kiddy mates think they are technically awsome.

      For 90+% of people, PC software is a TOOL. It must function and must do it's job well.

      You can take away my hand screwdriver if you give me something that is functionally better and easy to learn (eg. a battery screwdriver). What MS have done is take away my screwdriver and replace it with hammer and told me to stop using screws and I must now nail everything together.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Arse'oles

    Just installed 10074 yesterday. Now with so much Control Panel gone (what a palaver trying to get the icons back on the desktop!) it reminded me more than anything else of the Motorola Phone app I used to occasionally use on the PC. Each build is steadily more like a great big phone interface. This has quite obviously been their strategy; the point of this extended Tech/Insider Preview - to gradually migrate we who resist it to this tablet/phone interface. They figured they could win this battle they began, by conditioning. That's what the Windows 10 Tech Preview has been: an attempt to recoup their losses using conditioning.

    And to the downvoters: I don't care any more what you think than Microsoft cares what I think.

    1. king of foo

      Re: Arse'oles

      I just want it to be fast.

      And small.

      And stable.

      And to run well on a wide range of hardware, from ancient to cutting edge.

      As an "enthusiast" that tries lots of different things I can recall using an operating system like that. It was called "puppy".

      I wonder - could El reg do a "special" on lightweight operating systems? Comparing them to the mainstream? Some people might get a shock.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Arse'oles

      "Just installed 10074 yesterday."

      Likewise. Part of the objective was to test installing FreeBSD as a double boot with a windows partition (that works). I also wanted to see if it would run the one Windows program I occasionally use that I can't run under Wine. The installer is sitting on a file server at 192.168.0.3. There's also a printer at 192.168.0.4. The Win10 box is at 192.168.1.64 with a netmask of 255.255.0.0 and it can't see anything on 192.168.0.x. And forget the incomplete software guff: if it's being released as a preview it should do better than that.

      And the interface? Rubbish! Everything is borderless which is fine if everything is full screen, less fine if you have overlapping windows. Scroll bars are very dark grey on black. Windows for Teletubbies was ugly enough, this is much worse. The overall impression is of viewing an unfurnished house. Downloading LibreOffice & Seamonkey started to give it a more lived in appearance but I doubt I'd be persuaded to move in there permanently..

    3. Steve 114

      Re: Arse'oles

      Likewise: then about 20 tweaks (only one in the registry) made it look comfortably like 7, with a less handy listing of installed programs. Works quite well on an old laptop with only 2Gb of memory. But even after the three 'Do not search...' enables, any local wording in the searchbar still gets web suggestions from dreaded Bing. Anyone know how to disable Bing access absolutely?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

    Even if it is free. Will stick on windows 7, pre metro. Really not sure why Microsoft are still even bothering with Xbox one and windows phone, they are total failures.

    1. Radelix

      Re: see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

      Might as well dust off your XP box as well then, you know since it turns on and doesn't do that transparency magic in the UI.

      1. Planty Bronze badge

        Re: see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

        Windows 10 loses aero too.. So its more like XP, just with loads of ways to sell you things baked in.

        How do you think Microsoft are going to "give" you a "free" upgrade... Expect it to be like Ubuntu horrible amazon search integration, but impossible to turn off...

        Also expect Microsoft to count installs but not subsequent uninstalls.

    2. td97402

      Re: see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

      To be fair, XBone is doing OK. Now Windows Phone seems done.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

        Didn't you notice the absence of any Xbox one sales figures in Microsofts end of year earnings report. Much vagueness.... Sony on the other hand have SOLD 22.5m ps4s to consumers.

        I know one solitary Xbox one owner and he is looking to jump ship, as all his Xbox 360 mates jumped to ps4 this gen.

        Microsoft are in a really bad place, making really desperate decisions.

      2. Daniel B.

        Re: see nothing worthwhile on windows 10 here

        The XBox One had a small surge during holiday season 2014 because MS made a steep discount around those dates. I think it has reverted to its regular price, so there's a good chance the surge is gone as well. But it's probably too little, too late: PS4 is way too ahead. The XBO isn't quite a failure, but it seems to have definitely lost this generation's console war. Honestly, MS should just close up that shop and let a more consumer and gamer-friendly console maker enter the market.

  7. JRowland
    Meh

    Same old large corporation dysfunction

    Microsoft seems to be far too focused on internal goals to credibly address those of their customers.

    Windows 8 was close to a perfect execution of this inversion, so 10 can hardly help but be less egregious. I still don’t like what I see, though.

  8. Kev99 Bronze badge

    I still think someone should build some applet that will check and see how many of the umpteen gigabytes that will make up Win10 are actually needed, not on install but also on startup. Then give the user to whack or disable them. Yes I can look at task manager, but how many of those puppies are really hunting and how many are just lying on the porch?

    Also, I tried Build whatever in February. I couldn't get it off my PC fast enough. I'd sooner go back to XP.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    It'll arrive in waves...

    Wave 1 - raise expectations.

    Wave 2 - gouge the gullible.

    Wave 3 - release a buggier, slower, plainer version of Windows 7, rebranded as Windows 10.

    Wave 4 - after the inevitable class action, own up that Windows 10 requires hardware currently unavailable outside Intel test labs.

    Wave 5 - locate the lipstick.

    Wave 6 - locate the pig.

    Wave 7 - conjoin waves 5 and 6, release as Enterprise Plus Pack for Windows 10.

    Wave 8 - increment version number, start at wave 1.

    1. b166er

      Re: It'll arrive in waves...

      Wave 1 - OEMs and Retailers and the £300 laptop buying general public gawd blessum

      Wave 2 - Service Pack 1, enterprise churn on a 'thoroughly tested' deployment

      Wave 3 - Service Pack 2, anyone who understands Microsoft release strategy

      Maybe 10 is 8.1 Service Pack 1, so we won't have long to wait for Service Pack 2, although I hear Service Packs don't exist any more, but patches will be delivered in waves!

  10. 101
    Happy

    Windows as a "Service"

    Renting use of Windows based on the monthly fee might work in the corporate setting. However, in the personal computer sphere I see a lot of problems.

    For example, I don't want to rent Windows, only to find the monthly fee goes up, up, up to the sky in short order just like the cable bill and all the other utilities. Renting Windows will work to the extent there is no other viable alternative. But there are alternatives!

    There's Linux for super geeks, but Apple has iOs it's phones, ipads and Mac for the masses with totally a totally free OS. And let's not forget the Google/Android FREE OS, either.

    And they work.

    I like that.

    A lot.

    Another issue is the privacy/security issue. Once you agree to pay the monthly fee, you also agree to let them have your identity totally as well copy, slice, dice, store, sell, or give away any and all of your keystrokes/swipes to anyone for any reason. After all, you are using THEIR stuff. You don't own it.

    In short, Windows as a Service is a Big Win for Big Brother.

    My take is MS has abandoned individuals in favor of angling to hook the corporate world to it's service and monthly fees. Maybe that will work. Or maybe not.

    Generally, I think smart phones and tablets running Android or iOs are the future of personal computing, however.

    1. king of foo

      Re: Windows as a "Service"

      People forget, MS is a company. It wants your money. All creativity goes into finding ways to get more money from you. Apple is also a company... and so is Google. Fact.

      I'm a CUSTOMER of all 3 of the above, as, likely, so are you.

      Customer != User

      Now, I would like to be able to claim that I'm somehow different and am not just a customer, but it's untrue. I've tried various alternatives (gnu/Linux) but the reality is that I'm forced to be a Microsoft (laptop) and apple (iphone) customer at work, and at home I'm a google (nexus 5) customer. I wish someone would find a way to make software and hardware I want to buy without acting like a company selling me stuff. I really thought that might be Ubuntu. I still have hope...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @king of foo - Re: Windows as a "Service"

        You're confusing me by mixing PCs, phones and tablets. If I'm not mistaken Linux is not available on tablets/phones and Android is not available on desktop/laptop PCs. Should I understand you're expecting Ubuntu to run on phones, tablets and PCs like Windows ?

        1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

          Re: @king of foo - Windows as a "Service"

          > If I'm not mistaken Linux is not available on tablets/phones

          You are mistaken. I have a Nokia N800 tablet with Maemo Linux. Others have been and are available. Android is a Linux distro, as is Tizen.

          > and Android is not available on desktop/laptop PCs.

          You are mistaken. Android can run on Netbook/Laptop, such as HP Slatebook, or desktops, or TV.

          > Should I understand you're expecting Ubuntu to run on phones, tablets and PCs like Windows ?

          Yes, why not ?

        2. bean520

          Re: @king of foo - Windows as a "Service"

          > If I'm not mistaken Linux is not available on tablets/phones

          Yes you are. I'm running Ubuntu Touch on a Nexus 5

          > Android is not available on desktop/laptop PCs

          Yes it is. My netbook came with it built-in

          > Should I understand you're expecting Ubuntu to run on phones, tablets and PCs like Windows ?

          It's already there. I have Ubuntu on my phone, tablet, and a derivative on my PC

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @101 - Re: Windows as a "Service"

      For a standard desktop/laptop you have only Windows and (if SecureBoot allows you) Linux. Android is definitely not a desktop OS.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ..and all of your apps are still going to run

    That Microsoft can say this with a straight face and offer it as a feature is indicative of their whacked out mentality - so let me get this straight, I pay you MORE money (since I presumably already paid for my current Windows) and one of the benefits is my software will still run?

    Well golly gee, where do I sign up?

    What's really hilarious is it's not like they even need the money, they have billions sitting in the bank from all their previous scams, what freaking difference does it make that they will rake in a few more billion, they obviously have no clue what to with the money they already extort from their victims.

    Microsoft: Where do you want to go today?

    Me: The future!

    Microsoft: How about we stay right here, plus you pay us $200

  12. Mephistro Silver badge
    Coffee/keyboard

    "... and the Windows 8 people are more likely to be tech enthusiasts ..."

    Ha Ha Haha Ha Ha Ha Hahaha Ha Ha Haha [chest explodes]

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "you’re going to have a personal digital assistant there to answer any question for you at any time"

    * - Who needs Clippie-part-duh monitoring everything we do... If this is as useless as the Win7 Trouble-shooter, then Microsoft can just fuck right-off right-now...

    * - Why does Redmond never include an expert interface for experienced users? Treating your users like Vista patsies all over again M$ execs...

    * - This year I started playing around with Linux using spare boxes that previously ran Vista, and it felt pretty karmic. The day that I can do 100% practical work with UE4 running Linux, I'm deserting the windows rat ship. As a lifelong M$ developer, I doubt I'm alone in feeling this way either...

  14. M Gale

    "Windows as a service"

    Not even once.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why "upgrade"?

    you’re going to have a personal digital assistant there to answer any question for you at any time

    We don't WANT an flipping digital assistant.

    We didn't want one when BOB was released.

    We didn't want one when Office 95 was released.

    Sure some iOS uses like Siri, but it just sounds like you're all Mental As Anything to me.

    Sorry Microsoft, you're going to have to do a lot better than some talking blue holographic tart to entice this computer user.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why "upgrade"?

      It seems that MS are now aiming their 'consumer' products at the lowest common denominator of the US population, Joe and Jolene 'Six-Pack'.

      Windows 10 === The Dumber and Dumber 10th remake coming soon to a device near you!

      This is one reason why I'm gonna retire when Windows 7 support ends.

      1. td97402

        Re: Why "upgrade"?

        I am with you. Win 7 support ends in 2020. I think I will at least semi-retire then too.

        Oh, and I believe you meant Dumb and Dumberer...

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: Why "upgrade"?

        Microsoft produced this in 2001. I still find it funny. The only improvement OfficeXP had over 2000 was not having clippy as I recall.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI2LVI4xgvs

        So, we are going to have a sucessor to Clippy now? :( Roll on Windows 11.

        All I want from a corporate Microsoft desktop OS is:-

        1) stability, and boringness. An OS exists for the sole purpose of Operating Systems and the less time spent fucking around with the OS the more work the users get done. If you have to stick in lots of crap in the OS that nobody wants then allow us to disable it via group policy.

        2) No "exciting" feature updates. Just fix boring things like the copy feature so that if it runs into a file requiring human input it does everything else in the que and then just leaves the exceptions for human input. Otherwise, stop fiddling. Corporate IT will pay for lack of fiddling.

        3) 10+ year lifetime. Recertifying every application is expensive, time consuming and gains us nothing and we don't want to do it every week just because somebody felt the need to redevelop the wheel to look more fashionable.

        4) A consistent "people ready" user experiance requiring no new training from or to the next version.

  16. adnim Silver badge

    Staged release?

    they used to call it patching

  17. Paul 87

    I'm going to bet that within 1 year of Win10 release to PC's, they'll be an attack technique or virus which exploits the personal assistant code to act as a keylogger. After all they've already built that feature into the software for MS's use during testing and they'd never just strip it out.

  18. rh16181618190224

    apps not working and local account

    At the moment all the apps do not work. I lost my ODBC data sources. I tried to report it, but cannot unless using a Microsoft account. I didn't because that's not how I am going to use it.

    So local accounts are not going to be very well tested or reported on.

    And if you try and add a Microsoft account, the local account gets converted to a Microsoft account, rather than adding one. Because of course someone who has jumped through the hoops for a local account is going to want it converted!

  19. Ian_B

    Missing The Point

    Until Microsoft realise that anything ever designed by Jensen Harris is total arse and strip it all out, they're on a hiding to nowhere. Stuffing the ghastly Fisher Price start screen tiles into a half-hearted Start Menu means they just still haven't got the message.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Missing The Point

      "Jensen Harris"

      From his blog: "My name is Jensen Harris and I'm the Director of Program Management for the Microsoft Windows User Experience Team."

      That speaks volumes. I don't want someone trying to design my user "experience". Just provide a working user interface and I'll provide the experience. "User experience" was a term invented by marketroids so you know nothing good will ever come of it.

      1. iranu

        Re: Missing The Point

        I just want the ability to choose. Let me change the UI. If I want to access something with a mouse gesture that is as long and laborious as a Rimmer salute then let me. If I want to customise the start menu then let me.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This:

    "“We are concerned with both, but the higher volume of people are the Windows 7 people, and the Windows 8 people are more likely to be tech enthusiasts and more adaptable.""

    “We are concerned with both, but the higher volume of people are the Windows 7 people (who have witnessed first hand the debacle that Win8 is) , and the Windows 8 people are more likely to the (LESS technical) poor sods who had the travesty that is Windows 8 forced upon them when they bought a new pc and are therefore more likely to spend more £€$ in our app store beta testing our software.

    TFTFY

    #patiencewithMSwearingthin

    1. veti Silver badge

      Re: This:

      I've been using Windows 8 for 18 months now on my phone, about 2 months on my desktop. (8.1, that is, of course.)

      And I love it. On the desktop, the boot time alone is worth the upgrade. For the first time since DOS, I've got a computer that boots, near as I can recall, as fast as DOS did. (But unlike DOS, I don't need to choose between six different config settings at boot, depending on what I want to run today.)

      It has no third-party AV or firewall, the internal tools do those jobs just fine. I've installed a couple of hundred gigs of software on it from downloads and discs, and never paid a dime through the MS app store. And I haven't yet found anything from XP days that won't run on it, with a minimal amount of crowbarring.

      Just sayin'. Obviously haters gonna hate, but be aware there is such a thing as a contented W8 user.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This:

        Yeah. I remember one or two friends swore by Vista rather than at it.

        1. x 7

          Re: This:

          nothing wrong with Vista as long as the machine had the power to run it

  21. Andy Non

    I'll give it a try

    I've got a crappy Windows 8.1 laptop that is now dual-boot Linux Mint. Windows is rarely used any more; but I'll "upgrade" it to Windows 10 if its free and give it a try. Can't be any worse than Widows 8.1 or can it ? This is assuming of course that the computer will actually upgrade as Windows update hasn't worked since last year and gives a useless error message. It must be wide open to hackers and viruses by now.

  22. Boothy

    License?

    What happens with your current license?

    I'd assume if it's an OEM, it stays as an OEM.

    But if it's a full license do you keep it as a full one, or does it revert to an OEM?

    Just wondering, as I've got a laptop with an OEM Win 7, but I'm also a gamer, so have a home built desktop with a full Win 7, which I move/reinstall as I upgrade or replace the PC.

    1. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: License?

      "...so have a home built desktop with a full Win 7, which I move/reinstall as I upgrade or replace the PC"

      You're not the droid they're looking for.

  23. samtheman

    I don't work in the computer field but I have a better than passing knowledge of how to use computers, and I'm resigned to buying a new PC based laptop every three years or so because they just start to slow down and one needs the upto date technology, etc etc. I need a new laptop now (my vaio has reached the end of its efficient life and ive decided on a Lenovo after thorough research) I've been waiting for the new Windows 10 to come out so I can buy the new machine with that installed. but what are these guys at Microsoft upto????....can't they give us a set date and deliver on that??? high time they got their act together.......otherwise another customer will just move on to APPLE!!!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Bit rot

      Sam, they slow down because the disk gets disorganised (I think as a result of month after month of security patches); also you may find that lots of things run at startup.

      The hardware of the computer doesn't slow down, it's just the OS. This is one of the dirty secrets of the PC world that no-one wants to fix because they wouldn't be able to sell you a new machine every 3 years. Since Mac and Linux do not suffer from this problem, a company with the resources and talent that Microsoft have should be able to find a solution - but instead we get new face-paint.

      You can make your computer run like new simply by reinstalling the original OS (not exactly, as it will be handicapped by several years' patches for Windows that will get appled after reinstallation).

      More practically, replace the hard disk with an SSD or hybrid drive which make the effect of disk disorganisation much less severe (if you have recovery DVDs you can do the disk swap yourself, unless you have one of the modern machines where the HDD bay does not have an external lid).

      As for me, I run a 6 year old Thinkpad with an SSD - and Vista!

      1. Def Silver badge

        Re: Bit rot

        Actually, that's not entirely true. Computers can slow down over time entirely on their own. As their fans become more and more clogged with dust, the OS will continually throttle the processor speed to prevent them from over heating. I've seen it happen more than once in the past. Apply a swift blast of air to the nether regions of a PC and you might be pleasantly surprised.

        1. Roopee

          Re: Bit rot

          I make good money speeding up clients' PCs for them and I can assure you that clogged fans are the least common cause of a slow PC!

  24. Six_Degrees

    Yeah, well, I'll wait until the waves die down before plunging in. W7 is working just fine for me, and I have no incentive to move off of it until W10 has stabilized. I'm in no mood to be a Microsoft Beta tester.

  25. tempemeaty
    Big Brother

    Will Windows become like rent to own furniture that you never get to own?

    I have to wonder how many average Joe and Jane PC Windows users out there will fall for this. To the average person of average computer literacy, if they never stop paying to use the PC they purchased, it'll feel like they never really own it. I don't expect that to have a positive impact on the PC industry.

    I also wonder if this is just a profitably creative means to pressure people out of PC's and into fondle slabs which are to limited to produce any content TPTB might find threatening. Truth is that user content has shifted the balance of who controls information away from spin control of the major media, their power to control how people think and what they believe.

    1. Roopee

      Re: Will Windows become like rent to own furniture that you never get to own?

      You mean like the majority of mobile phone users (here in the UK) who never 'own' their phone because they start a new contract with a new 'upgraded' phone every couple of years. It used to be called "buying on the never never" - quite apt.

  26. regadpellagru

    So we now know why upgrades are free for one year

    That's because it's even less finished than Vista ever was.

  27. Nathan 13

    Apps grrr

    Phones and tablets have apps, computers have programs.. Alright Microsoft!

  28. JJKing Bronze badge
    Unhappy

    Free upgrade from Windows 7, 8 & 8.1. Now what happens when the HDD fails or an infection trashes you drive and you have no Recovery Partition left. I presently don't know of any manufacturer who supplies the physical installation media. Now you have to find a copy of Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 so you can upgrade once again to Windows 10 OR you fork out your hard earned dosh to purchase (lease?) a full install copy of Windows 10.

    This has all the hallmark of WAIT; STOP, IT'S A TRAP. Windows 7 shall stay unmolested by an upgrade on my machine. I would also state that I installed the first release of Windows Review on a 6 year old laptop with a Core Duo CPU, 4GB RAM and was reasonable impressed even if it did look like Windows 8.1 with the Classic Shell menu installed on it. I wonder if they will make it resemble Office 2013 with that pathetic lack of colour interface. White, light grey and dark grey. Now that would even make a return to Vista appealing.

    I was looking forward to Windows 10 when it was first announced. I sure ain't any more. I want to keep my Local Account and not have it converted just because I want to play Solitaire or Mahjong. I guess the MS management have been reading and taking lessons from George Orwell's book 1984 and want to control you just like Apple. Both are about as compassionate as The Borg.........

  29. phil dude
    Linux

    my last windows adventure...

    It was a few years ago with a media pc that came with vista.

    There was no media it was "pre-installed", so I booted it, but with no network cable.

    After an hour of disk noise (pre SSD you see) it came up with the screen for a new user and admin password. I enter some faux details and it rebooted and provide a login screen.

    I logged in and got a blank desktop with a "you need a network connection to finish the install", and a *very pretty* logout button in the screen corner.

    Any OS that needs to phone-home to be used, is quite simply, too scary to contemplate.

    That was the day my inner Penguin took over.

    P.

  30. Roland6 Silver badge

    “We are still working on the specifics of how they will get presented the upgrade offer,”

    Lets hope they don't use Windows Update, and foist Win 10 on those who 'naively' accepted MS's claim that having Windows updates automatically installed made their system more secure.

  31. Brandon 2

    not a chance in hell

    "One of Microsoft’s goals is to get as many Windows 7 users as possible upgrading..."

    AHHAHAHAHAHHA... nope. There is a zero % chance I will upgrade from 7, after trying 8, screaming at my computer for 3 hours, almost throwing a friend's laptop through the window, and immediately formatting back to 7. Screw that. They could pay me to do it... but even then, it'd have to be a lot. Who the hell pays for a headache? Nope... fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice... (but we promise it's better).... NOpe... Bye felicia.

  32. peterkin

    Doesn't support my soundcard. End of.

  33. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    "Actually ever since Vista the horsepower required to run each successive Windows version has gone down! Mainly because they were moving from PC to Tablet as the device it would be running on so it had to be much lighter."

    Actually, the requirement's gone down because Vista was a bloated disaster, and Microsoft has optimized some of the very sub-optimal code that went into it since then.

  34. Frank N. Stein

    What I want to know is if Microsoft is going to reverse it's attempts to force us to login with a "Microsoft Account" rather than a "Local Account". I'd prefer to use a local account. I want that choice. Others do too. I know that there are those who'd rather login with a Microsoft account, but I'm not one of them.

  35. HKmk23

    Will VM work

    Win 10 looks so bad that I am seriously considering running a Macbook with VM so I can still use Visio, Autoroute and Microsoft Money which are the only reasons I still use Win 7. Anybody got any better ideas?

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Will VM work

      "Anybody got any better ideas?"

      Yup. Save yourself some money, install Linux or a BSD on what you've already got & run the VM on that.

    2. Daniel B.
      Boffin

      Re: Will VM work

      Win 10 looks so bad that I am seriously considering running a Macbook with VM so I can still use Visio, Autoroute and Microsoft Money which are the only reasons I still use Win 7. Anybody got any better ideas?

      You're late into the game. I did exactly that in December 2012. My Win7 VM is rarely used these days, as I bought Office 2011 for Mac (it still has menus so you aren't forced to use Ribbon only) and Win7 is mostly used for Windows-only games or the few 2 or 3 programs that aren't available on Mac.

      But yes, it's probably the best bet: you don't have to pay the MS tax, you keep an OS that does get commercial software, but also get a Unix OS underneath for other stuff. And you can run any other OS under VMs if you want to.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    have a personal digital assistant there to answer any question for you at any time

    Cortana, tell me, in 36 simple steps, how to remove you, once and for all, so that you don't get re-instated by default with every "critical" patch and service pack.

  37. gfx

    hmmm

    I build myself a new pc recently (i5, ssd, quick enough, nothing special)

    Put Windows 10 preview and Ubuntu on it. Linux is less annoying, boots faster, updates better.

  38. Tim Brown 1

    Is that a wig?

    Is that a wig that Joe Belfiore has on in that picture or just a really bad haircut?

  39. Russle

    microsoft SPY machine

    no thanks,

    why give in to my own enslavement for a new background wallpaper and some fonts?

    We have grown up as a society and have matured enough to articulate the problems we face and the challenges before us all. And Redmond is a leader of one of them.

  40. LDS Silver badge

    Will Flight Simulator X run?

    I'll upgrade to Windows 10 only if FSX will run on it - and no, not the Steam version. I'm not going to install the steam crap just to run FSX.

  41. Uwe Dippel

    News at eleven

    W10 will be a piece of turd, like all W-s. They have always been, more (XP, W7) or less (W3.0, NT4, Vista, W8) usable. And yet, the world and sundry will buy, pay, use it. Because, let's face it, this world of us simply runs on it. Our (office) data can best be handled with its sub-optimal Office Suite.

    What else to say?

    1. x 7

      Re: News at eleven

      nothing wrong with NT4 or the later versions of 3, 3.11 was really stable (for its time)

  42. M.

    When will the tech media figure out that WE NO LONGER CARE about Microsoft? The consumer train has left the station (with any memories of Microsoft's old, craptacular baggage far behind), and we are never looking back.

    The more daylight consumers can put between us and Microsoft, the better - for both us and the tech industry.

  43. tekHedd

    Like it boots?

    So Windows will now launch like it boots? It looks like it's ready to go, but as soon as you click on something you notice it's still lazy-loading, and the login prompt is just there to hit the artificial "see, it launched quickly" milestone. Gets your hopes up then makes you wait.

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Upgrading a computer that ran Windows 7 for 5 years? Extremely unlikely for anyone who ever

    tried upgrading from one MS OS to another MS OS. The usual expectation here is snags, incompatible

    programs, incompatible hardware, no drivers, no support unless you are rich, etc. etc. I will never ever

    again upgrade an old computer to a new MS OS. (The ancient "new wine in old pipes" comes to mind).

    Buying a new computer with Win10 on it? Unless it comes with a button that says "Make it look and work like Win 7", I won't even consider it, after wasting time and money on the Win 8 disaster. The purple, green and orange color scheme still makes me shudder, but there is no arguing about taste.

    Hey, MS, still listening? OK, think now: What is the fastest growing demographic in the USA, England, Germany, France, Japan, possible China, Italy, Spain? Wait for it: Old people, Older people, plus Very Old people, plus middle aged people! There you go! What does that mean for you?

    It means "Future Shock on Hyper Over Drive" ! Which means what: Tons of people who want a computer that works like the computer that they had before!

    Let me rephrase that: Tons of people who want a computer that works like the computer that they had before!! (Well, I added an extra exclamation point, so that counts as a rephrasing.)

    So, Mr. Joe Belfiore, your complete inability to recognize that market segment as an important one

    just shows that you are growing on the same vine that Bill Gates and the other guy with the name and no hair was growing on - in other words - you just don't know your customers.

    Why it is that MS is totally hung up on a GUI that gets the thumbs down from so many people, and unwilling to provide the GUI that people would like, that's a complete mystery to me. It should be

    obvious to software and hardware producers alike that the GUI (with it's various capabilities) is merely the "lipstick", the "makeup" of a system.

    So why can't they provide the one that people would like? Don't they understand that the success or

    failure of the OS depends on the "makeup"? To put it another way: In selling Real Estate, many things are important, but the beauty of the current paint job is what sells the house, as long as the basics are solid.

    Another thing is: People love old cars, classic cars. Why can't they be entitled to love old computers,

    or new computers with the interface that they know and love?

    Ok, I'll stop complaining right now!

  45. Checkerboard_Handle

    Does anybody know? Will Windows 10 allow me to have 8 to 12 windows open? Will allow me to

    minimize and maximize them? Will it have a browser that has tabbed browsing? Will it let me look

    at my files, without having to "take ownership of them"? Will it let me see everything that exists on my

    computer?

    Those are the important functions to me, apart from hardware and software compatibility.

    Anyone knows anything, or is it all hype anyway?

  46. TeacherMARK

    An operating system should be the 'ground' on which a house can be built.. Not a house that needs to be dismantled and re-built properly. Windows 8 works great for me because I spent a week hacking it to bits to make it work like Windows 7!

  47. JohnFen Silver badge

    I won't be upgrading

    I've been using the Windows 10 preview builds, and they're fine. Certainly MUCH improved over Windows 8! However, there is literally nothing in Windows 10 that I find compelling enough to actually upgrade to it. Not one single new feature is interesting to me. There are performance improvements, but they are all too minor to justify an upgrade.

    I'll be continuing with Windows 7 on my Win boxes until the day comes when it simply isn't possible anymore.

  48. MissingSecurity

    As a Win 7 and Linux User ...

    Say I'm a techie, looking for a new computer (Which I am), and I'm looking for something that's going to meet all my entertainment and production needs (which it needs to do), why should I get/build a PC with Win 10, when I can build a PC cheaper with Linux, or be happy with an Apple?

    This isn't even a price thing (Hence the Apple consideration). I still have not read anything from MS that's mind blowing, I want that "feature".

    -- Faster boot times? Big deal, I rarely shut down my machine, and I'm a Sys Admin, which means I have the patients for that extra 30 sec.

    -- Look and Feel? Apples got it, and I can customize my Linux to have too.

    -- Games? All the ones I play have Mac run times, or I have been able to use WINE.

    -- Killer App? I don't see the next killer app being MS exclusive without being heavily "persuaded" by MS.

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