back to article Google pulls plug on YouTube for older iPads, iPhones, smart TVs

Some aging smart TVs, Blu-Ray players, iPhones and iPads are headed for early dotage, thanks to a decision by Google to shut down the older version of its YouTube API. According to a revised product support page, the YouTube apps built into certain devices manufactured in 2012 or earlier will soon stop functioning, beginning …

  1. tin 2

    THIS is why all this connected, internet TV stuff is NOT the future.

    1. jonathanb Silver badge

      I think is is, but buy your smart TV box and your screen separately. You can replace a £80 to £100 smart TV box every couple of years to get the latest features and keep the screen for 5-10 years.

      1. Dummy00001

        > You can replace a £80 to £100 smart TV box

        A TV tax for the Internet age? Sounds a lot like it.

        1. Michael Habel Silver badge

          A TV tax for the Internet age? Sounds a lot like it.

          ORLY? Well if the TVLA actually gave away a bit of Plastic & Silicon from time to time I might feel only slightly less ripped off... The fact that these Boxes as a general rule are also XBMC / Kodi capable, also makes them of great value. Plus the fact that they run Android means that Apps like YouTube, aren't going away anytime soon either.

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Facepalm

        In other words, that's a yay for landfill then. See icon.

        The only hardware replacement for a Smart TV box you might need in the next five years is 1080p -> 4K, everything else is done by software. Good software means you keep a device even though it might be getting long in the tooth, bad software can ruin an otherwise good device. In this case, Google has written bad software which brings about obsolescence.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "In this case, Google has written bad software which brings about obsolescence."

          I would agree with you, but the fact that this software is probably a C module running an HTML 5 module, it was obsolete day one. However, if it would just run plain C... Of course this also shows that there is absolutely no organization on how and when a developer/company should issue update modules. But, then we are back to the plain C argument, but this time we have to ask that if the main module is written in C, then how come a simple update of the HTML 5 module isn't possible? So, hey, I do agree after all :-).

          If they think deprecating software will force TV sales, or TV sales need the latest software, then they are not so 'smart'. BTW, I honestly don't give a shit about any of this, so fuck both sides of the fence :-)

          1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

            Re: "Written in C"

            I think you're missing the point. This isn't a language issue, it's the removal of support for the protocol that the clients use. This in turn exposes problems in how certain older devices receive updates, or don't.

            Many of the client software makers could update their client software so that it talks to the new API, and it still wouldn't matter if that client was implemented using HTML or C or INTERCAL (although currently, System-on-chip support is admittedly somewhat limited for the more advanced features of INTERCAL).

            The problem for the older iOS users is that it's not possible to publish apps into Apple's App Store that target an OS earlier than iOS6, so even though the fix is primarily a software one, it is impossible to deploy it to those users who need it on Apple's older platforms. (Jailbreaking is not an option for the majority of these users)

            The problem for the TV owners is that many manufacturers still have an approach to software updates that can be summarised as: "support ends when the boxes leave the factory".

            1. Hans 1 Silver badge

              Re: "Written in C"

              @ Kristian Walsh

              >"support ends when the boxes leave the factory".

              EPIC

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: software updates

              "support ends when the boxes leave the factory".

              Too right! As someone who does app development and integration work with many Smart TVs from many vendors I can fully concur with this. Often any issue resolutions are pushed out to the next version, along with multiple API breakages, or even several cases recently a completely new API. Oh, and this happens every 6 months. And lets not forget different versions for different regions.

          2. Indolent Wretch

            Harsh don't you think. Or do you feel that because you've release an API for a free service that lots of people have used that means you are forced forever to support that API?

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              "Or do you feel that because you've release an API for a free service that lots of people have used that means you are forced forever to support that API?"

              Yes. If said API is for an app on a TV which said API vendor is pushing the manufacturers to include, it's incumbent on the API vendor to support it for at least the minimum expected life of the devices intended to use it. For a TV I'd say the consumer expectation is at least 5 years.

              Google appear to have given users almost zero notice of the planned/phased shutdown of the "old" API. I wonder how long they gave the manufacturers of smart TVs/BluRay players?

              From the point of view of UK and EU legislation, this may be opening a can of worms that many software and tech vendors have managed to avoid for a long time now. That of fitness for use and warranties. If a device no longer functions, or no longer functions as originally intended because some company has decided to switch off a remote server, there may well be a case for redress by the users. Two year warranties are standard but there is also consumer protection in place for when an item fails after the warranty period but inside the "expected lifetime" of the product.

          3. Dan 55 Silver badge

            "I would agree with you, but the fact that this software is probably a C module running an HTML 5 module"

            Fact is conjecture... And what's C done to deserve this?

            @geekguy:

            "Not accurate, Google has written good software which is now superseded, manufacturers, if they cared, could update their devices in someway to the new Apis. Samsung has a way of doing this. it is not a failure of Google but a failure of the OEMs. You cannot support aging software forever."

            It's not just Samsung though. Three years is too short a support time for embedded devices like TVs and Blu-Ray players. They're not as easy to update and that should be taken into account.

            Limiting the functionality of the API is understandable as is not allowing access to it from new devices but they shouldn't get bored with it and help push otherwise perfectly usable devices into landfill because they've got institutional ADHD.

        2. geekguy

          Not googles fault

          " In this case, Google has written bad software which brings about obsolescence."

          Not accurate, Google has written good software which is now superseded, manufacturers, if they cared, could update their devices in someway to the new Apis. Samsung has a way of doing this. it is not a failure of Google but a failure of the OEMs. You cannot support aging software forever.

          1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: Not googles fault

            Not accurate, Google has written good software which is now superseded, manufacturers, if they cared, could update their devices in someway to the new Apis.

            Google has decided to deprecate a protocol they encouraged people to use, only a few years into its existence, because they're utter bastards and this is part of their business model. They do it all the time.

            "good software" doesn't come into it. Google created an adequate API, and now they're blocking it, simply to prevent older applications from getting at the data. They did the same thing with, for example, their Outlook Calendar Sync applet. There's no technical reason to do it.

            it is not a failure of Google but a failure of the OEMs.

            What utter rubbish.

            You cannot support aging software forever.

            The cost to Google of supporting the old YouTube API is very close to nothing.

            Again, this is standard practice for Google: kill stuff off after a few years to force users to upgrade. It's psychological manipulation of the customer base; by forcing customers to keep reinvesting, it ensures they stay trapped in the Sunk Costs Fallacy and other irrational psychological investments in Google products. It's one of the reasons why Google's corporate motto is so obnoxiously ironic.

        3. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

          "In other words, that's a yay for landfill then."

          Seems that some people are not 'on message' yet. It is time for a leap forward, we need a nextification of the landfills. Behold the SmartFill!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Too late the "future" is here.

      Three words.

      Netflix

      Hulu

      HBO

      For the average consumer, they are almost ubiquitous right now. For the tech savvy consumer, they've been accessible since they launched.

      Then you need to remember this. Kids don't watch TV. They watch their peers Youtube channels. They still consume traditional media but not in the way that older generations do.

      1. Tim Jenkins

        Re: Too late the "future" is here.

        "...Kids don't watch TV. They watch their peers Youtube channels..."

        Not if they're using that hand-me-down first gen iPad, they're not....

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: Too late the "future" is here.

          ""...Kids don't watch TV. They watch their peers Youtube channels...""

          The kids are getting very peed off with all the adverts.

          Anyway, Youtube app isn't the only app that plays youtube videos.

          1. Gene Cash Silver badge

            Re: Too late the "future" is here.

            > The kids are getting very peed off with all the adverts.

            The kids started using Adblock Plus far quicker than anyone else. That's why a lot of podcasts/streams I watch do the '30s old-timey radio method of actually reading ad copy. As a plus, it's usually a product/company vetted by the streamer, so it's not the usual unrelated junk ads.

    3. fnj

      > THIS is why all this connected, internet TV stuff is NOT the future.

      Wrong conclusion. The correct conclusion is that THIS is why the future our corporate overlords are presiding over SUCKS.

    4. Otto is a bear.

      Though not the best future

      If we are talking mobile device entertainment, then I foresee an upsurge in upper back problems for the younger generations. Watching my fellow commuters hunched double over their phones and pads on the train and tube (subway), let alone how they might work in the office or at home on their laps.

      At least the Old PC Monitor or Telly across the room allows you some relatively good posture and comfort.

      Mines the Icon for the chiropractor and migraine pills.

    5. Mage Silver badge
      Facepalm

      HDMI cable

      Laptops are generally upgradable in Browser / OS / Applications. Tablets less so. Built in "smart" on a TV / Blu Ray player? Waste of money.

      The problem is beyond just YouTube.

      Expect Netflix to fail on "Smart" stuff too.

    6. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      FAIL

      Now we know what Google's staying power is

      About 3 years.

    7. Fungus Bob Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      "THIS is why all this connected, internet TV stuff is NOT the future."

      Right. The future is harmonicas. They are cordless and never need recharging.

  2. Carl W
    FAIL

    P*ss poor

    Why could they not retain the old API for compatibility purposes?

    1. h3

      Re: P*ss poor

      Probably because it never shows ad's at least on my Panasonic.

      The Captions are annoying enough on a desktop never mind turning them off with a remote.

    2. Annihilator
      Meh

      Re: P*ss poor

      "Why could they not retain the old API for compatibility purposes?"

      Easy: ££££/$$$$$

      Basically, they're not going to support older kit forever. And at some point people will gradually wake up to the fact that they don't pay for these services and so have no expectation of a decent service.

      1. Hans 1 Silver badge
        Angel

        Re: P*ss poor

        @ Annihilator

        >Basically, they're not going to support older kit forever.

        What, forever is now defined as being what? 3 years? Annihilator? Annihilated!

        As for Google ↓

        ....................../´¯/)

        ....................,/¯../

        .................../..../

        ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸

        ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\

        ........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')

        .........\.................'...../

        ..........''...\.......... _.·´

        ............\..............(

        ..............\.............\...

        PS: I told you lot, Smart TV's suck - get a dumb display and a cheap (replaceable) set top box.

      2. Mnot Paranoid
        IT Angle

        Re: P*ss poor

        Well seeing as how YouTube is the equivalent of a badly-drawn animated spunking penis on a toilet cubicle wall, it's no biggie.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: P*ss poor

          "YouTube is the equivalent of a badly-drawn animated spunking penis on a toilet cubicle wall"

          Most of it is. But there are exceptions.

          My uncle isn't as young as most of us (90 next year). He had a Sony 'smart' TV bought for him by a relative. He uses its Youtube feafure to watch bits of local news, now he doesn't get out as much as he used to.

          Except he doesn't watch it any more because it's stopped working and almost inevitably won't be fixed.

          I made the mistake of also buying a Sony smart TV, but I've got enough other geekdevices that when Youtube stops working on the Sony (as it will). I'll still have something that's capable of displaying it.

          Somewhere I've got a Roku LT. Will it stop working on that as well? OK if it does no longer work on that, it's less of a hassle than replacing a whole TV.

          The whole single-box 'smart TV' concept is finally being shown up to be a daft idea from a longevity point of view. Not before time.

  3. James 51 Silver badge

    No chance they could do a rap around on the old api to work with the new one?

    It's handy to have the apps built into the TV but that's the advantages of the dongles and consoles, software upgrades. How many TV manufacturers have updated the apps to avoid this.

  4. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

    Quite happy wth my TAS* TV

    *TAS = Thick As Shit

    1. Spasticus Autisticus

      Re: Quite happy wth my TAS* TV

      'Quite happy wth my TAS* TV

      *TAS = Thick As Shit'

      .... with a Raspberry Pi

      TAS+RPi

  5. Number6

    Roll Your Own

    There's still a lot to be said for a dumb TV and an external media centre PC. If you've got something capable of running Linux (Raspberry Pi, perhaps) then it should have quite a long life, and if it runs out of processing grunt, you can keep the TV and upgrade the media centre hardware.

    Plus it's not as likely to transmit your viewing habits and conversations to third parties.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Roll Your Own

      Exactly, I've been saying this all along. The cost of the display alone is sufficient enough that it should not become obsolete inside of 4 years. I have 15 year old TVs/displays that are still as useful as the day I bought them because they don't rely on any "smart" software.

      At a minimum I suggested smart-TVs should have a slot-in "smart-unit", which can be replaced preventing the display from becoming obsolete.

      Now those people who do use their smart-TVs for YouTube will now be hooking up external devices or replacing their TV making the smart part completely pointless.

      1. cambsukguy

        Re: Roll Your Own

        Of course the smart TV can be used as a dumb TV for its lifetime though so it doesn't impact anything making it smart in theory.

        My assumption is that there is almost no extra cost involved (a panel would still have to have HDMIs and the legacy connectors to make it useful as a media display anyway), and SW can be updated, even my Samsung got a few updates (mostly for picture improvements I think).

        Never seen a (say) 60 inch lo-res panel for sale anyway so nothing to compare against.

      2. h3

        Re: Roll Your Own

        Some of the highest end Samsungs do have a unit like that.

        1. Michael Habel Silver badge

          Re: Roll Your Own

          Some of the highest end Samsungs do have a unit like that.

          Are you sure its not the Common Interface± Slot?

      3. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: Roll Your Own

        "...I suggested smart-TVs should have a slot-in "smart-unit", which can be replaced preventing the display from becoming obsolete."

        Yeah, sure. The slot-in module size, shape and interface standard would change every year. Just like every other modern interface "standard" du jour.

        You can't win.

        You can't break even.

        You can't quit.

      4. djack

        Re: Roll Your Own

        "At a minimum I suggested smart-TVs should have a slot-in "smart-unit", which can be replaced preventing the display from becoming obsolete."

        It's possible now, just no-one is doing it.

        HDMI ports on modern sets can provide power to a dongle, can provide Ethernet over HDMI and allow the dongle to integrate with the TV remote via HDMI-CEC. One the TV is connected to the network, just plug the dongle into a HDMI port and that's it.

        I'd pay good money for a thing like that.

        1. joeldillon

          Re: Roll Your Own

          Aren't you basically describing things like the Roku/Amazon Fire stick? No need for a special slot when these things are the size of a USB drive anyway.

        2. geekguy

          Re: Roll Your Own

          Samsung already have slot in units.

        3. Jaffire

          Re: Roll Your Own

          @ djack

          Funny you mention CEC, i've just installed a pulse-eight (https://www.pulse-eight.com/p/104/usb-hdmi-cec-adapter) on my media-pc. It allows the tv remote signals to be sent through hdmi to the computer connected, just like a compatible blu-ray/dvd player.

          Using Kodi (XBMC) i've been able to add all sorts of smart to my tv. Means the less tech savvy gf only has one remote to worry about when she wants to watch something, whereas i'll use the Kodi android app (over wi-fi).

          I think the technology is finally getting there and I agree it would be nice to have an HDMI dongle that could take advantage of the "new" HDMI features.

          Perhaps TV manufacturers could miss out the built in smart and have a dedicated port for their own custom HDMI modules! It's a win win for everyone, they get more money by charging for them and we don't have to worry about obsolescence!

      5. Indolent Wretch

        Re: Roll Your Own

        They do, it's called an HDMI socket

    2. the spectacularly refined chap

      Re: Roll Your Own

      There's still a lot to be said for a dumb TV and an external media centre PC. If you've got something capable of running Linux (Raspberry Pi, perhaps) then it should have quite a long life, and if it runs out of processing grunt, you can keep the TV and upgrade the media centre hardware.

      Yes, there's a lot to be said for it but equally it isn't a universal solution. TV + media player isn't that bad, but it gets out of proportion when true dumb panels get recommended and you end up with a separate panel, TV tuner, amplifier, media player etc with half a dozen plugs, half a dozen things to turn on and off, and half a dozen remotes.

      A lot of people want a simple, integrated device that does the lot. Even if you are willing to put up with that rigamarole for the main set in the living room it may be completely impractical for the secondary sets in the kitchen or bedroom. Smart TV are not a bad idea in themselves, the problem is lack of ongoing support. Since many of them run a general purpose OS anyway (e.g. but not exclusively Linux) allowing the user community in would allow the software to be kept up to date.

      Oh wait, that might deter the three year replacement cycle the TV manufacturers seem hell bent on getting us all to adopt...

      1. Robert Helpmann?? Silver badge
        Childcatcher

        Re: Roll Your Own

        ...it gets out of proportion when true dumb panels get recommended and you end up with a separate panel, TV tuner, amplifier, media player etc with half a dozen plugs, half a dozen things to turn on and off, and half a dozen remotes.

        You make some good points, and by its nature the implementation of something like this is going to be unique or close to it for each instance, but I do not see why you would need to worry about multiple controls or power management. I run my "remote" off an app installed on my phone. In my case, I store my media files on my NAS, so it is not powered down. I use a Pi, so leaving it on is not a big deal, but there are power solutions out there that allow for similar control via smart phone if you want to go that route.

        As for the Smart TV idea, I look at them as similar to all-in-one devices of any sort. If one part goes out, you can effectively lose the package. and you are almost always paying for more functionality than you will ever use.

      2. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Re: Roll Your Own

        with half a dozen plugs, half a dozen things to turn on and off, and half a dozen remotes.

        I found that a good Logitech Harmony Remote (When properly setup, which IS a bit trickier then they make it out to be!), is generally MORE THAN capable of taking on that lot. It was also the only part of my HTPC Build, besides my Dumb Display, and Audio Amp. that has survived everything else that came before it.

        1. DropBear Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Roll Your Own

          I found that a good Logitech Harmony Remote (When properly setup, which IS a bit trickier then they make it out to be!), is generally MORE THAN capable of taking on that lot

          Too bad it tends to cost an arm, a leg and two dozen kidneys while still not having any way to configure it that doesn't involve "the cloud". Oh, and then the "Activities" button flakes out on you, which is the only one you can't reassign and also absolutely CAN'T use the bloody remote without (integrated metal dome switch under a piece of flexible PCB - lemme see you DIY fix that one!). That dust periodically gathers _under_ the LCD cover is just the icing on the cake I suppose. Yay, from a "satisfied customer"...

      3. Marcelo Rodrigues
        Happy

        Re: Roll Your Own

        "Yes, there's a lot to be said for it but equally it isn't a universal solution. TV + media player isn't that bad, but it gets out of proportion when true dumb panels get recommended and you end up with a separate panel, TV tuner, amplifier, media player etc with half a dozen plugs, half a dozen things to turn on and off, and half a dozen remotes."

        Well, HDMI has it covered. There is provision to send commands trough HDMI - on/off included. So, how about this?

        MediaPlayer -> HDMI -> HomeTheatre -> HDMI -> TV.

        There. 3 devices, two cables. Turn the TV on, the HomeTheatre turns on, and so the MediaPlayer.

        Pause, play, stop, FF/RW, volume... all this can be set through HDMi. No need to play with dozens of remotes.

        Have used this with my mobile and BlueRay player - no HomeTheatre, but...

    3. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re: Roll Your Own

      Raspi is about as attractive, as compiling your own Linux Kernel (Which to be fair is Sexy as Hell!), but its not something the Masses are ready for. When you can hit up Fleebay and, already buy a ready built Machine that's fit for purpose. Such as the WeTek Play (Android XBMC / Kodi Box w/ swapable DVB S2 / C2 / T2 inputs. Much MUCH nicer to run then a 450w+ HTPC with Linux, or shudders Windows Media Center.

  6. DrXym Silver badge

    Bitrot

    This a simple example why smart TVs are a bad idea.

  7. cambsukguy

    My computer does YouTube...

    ...and it is connected to the TV. All sorted for that 5 minutes a week I watch a trailer or a HISHE.

    Seriously though, quite a lot of people have laptops and those that don't have laptops may well have a desktop with HDMI so I am unsure why most people don't simply use their computer as the smart part of the TV. My HDMI cable is 10m long and cost less than a tenner and has never caused an issue, certainly nothing that wasn't fixed via a re-insertion of the cable.

    My Samsung TV is 'smart' (it is rubbish at everything except displaying a picture, which it is good at) and the only time I have used the TV YT app is when the laptop is unavailable (i.e. reboot/update).

    The TV app has the feature which allows any browser (such as a phone) to select the actual clip and 'send' it to the TV - chromecast for just YouTube. This makes it passably usable - since entering the search term via the appalling TV keyboard would render the system useless (why can't they be as responsive and usable as my TiVo was 15 years ago?).

    Still pants compared to just doing it on the laptop.

    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Re: My computer does YouTube...

      You touch on another aspect of this story: the 'so what?' part. I see a lot less of YouTube since it got saturated with unavoidable ads (AdBlockers don't work against ads inserted into your video stream), and that's on a laptop.

      Despite having a smart TV, I have as yet not used anything of the built in apps, simply because I bought the thing for being big, not for being connected (unfortunately, it's impossible to find a decent size TV without this crud).

      If there is one thing that's mislabelled on these units, it's the "Smart" part. The UI is terrible (at least on a Samsung), and the only way to fix that is to connect a keyboard and mouse .. at which point I'm basically back in laptop land, and that is easier if I just punt the stream straight into the wireless link and play back via the AppleTV unit (the non-Apple kit runs Airparrot 2 so it can do the same - excellent for meetings).

      So, in conclusion, personally not really bothered about these plans, but I must admit I'm surprised that Google is willing to cut off so many eyeballs from its advertising and data collection efforts.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: My computer does YouTube...

      "My HDMI cable is 10m long and cost less than a tenner and has never caused an issue,"

      You don't have kids or pets, do you? :-)

      Seriously though, wireless remotes were invented for a reason. Treating a laptop as a glorified wired remote control is huge step backwards. Whatever the merits (or not!) of smart TVs to the El Reg audience, the average Joe just wants a smart TV to "work".

  8. shyted

    Its pass the book time.

    The media service providers, like Google and Amazon are blaming the TV manufacturers for not updating the firmware, and the TV manufacturers blame the media service providers for discontinuing the service. (I'm looking at you Samsung!)

    Been rather annoyed at this in general, and I'm really surprised Trading Standards haven't reminded the TV manufacturers about the sales of goods act, I believe "fit for purpose" is the phrase, and applies for 6 years? I'm also pretty sure anyone who bought one of these on credit, can apply for a refund too via the credit provider.

    If folk now ask me about a "smartTV", I now suggest buy a dumb TV, and with the money saved get an HDMI dongle (Roku ect), or connect a laptop/media PC up.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Its pass the book time.

      I think in this case the manufacturers are in the right. They sold a product that handled specific services - it didn't provide the services. You might just as well complain about the manufacturer of an analogue TV that stopped working when analogue was switched off. Having said that, would I have bought a smart TV? No. The smarts here are provided by MythTV.

      1. DropBear Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Its pass the book time.

        The smarts here are provided by MythTV.

        ...which will probably stop working with YouTube equally promptly at the switch-off, and may or may not start working again (real geeks don't watch YouTube since you can't do it on the command line prompt, therefore the number denoting its priority in the 'fix it' queue probably has over a hundred digits, Beetlejuice style). Even if it does, it will likely require an upgrade to the latest MythTv which will promptly break the rest of the things that were still kinda-sorta working on my box after half of the functionality I managed to get up and running got nuked by the previous two upgrades.

    2. Nigel Whitfield.

      Re: Its pass the book time.

      While you may be able to make a claim for a fault for up to six years, unfortunately that won't really help (other than in a vanishingly small number of cases).

      That's because, broadly speaking, up to six months the assumption is that the fault was present at time of purchase. After six months, the onus is more usually on the buyer to show that there was an inherent fault. And "not being compatible with the actions of a third party, which couldn't have been forseen at the time of sale" would not, I think, be what anyone could consider an inherent fault.

      Fit for purpose is a slightly different matter, but even that is unlikely to extend beyond a limited time, sufficient for trying a piece of equipment and establishing whether or not it works. You can't retrospectively apply it. Otherwise, for instance, anyone who bought an analogue only TV set would be able to make a claim because of digital switchover. Or, for example, if you bought a set with a CAM so you could watch TopUpTV when it launched, only for that service to be discontinued, you wouldn't expect to be able to get your money back for the TV then, would you?

      I would imagine that the only situation in which you might possibly have a small chance of a claim would be if you happened to buy one of these sets very recently (ie, probably within the last six month, so you don't have to prove an inherent fault) and you made clear at the time of purchase that watching YouTube was a key factor in choosing that set. Since the affected sets are older models, the chances of that are pretty slim.

      Yes, it's pretty crappy behaviour on the part of manufacturers not to do updates for older sets - my first gen Panasonic VieraLink will doubtless fall foul of this - but I can't see any way in which the switching off of a service by Google could be turned into a claim under SOGA or other consumer regulations, so long after the sets were sold.

      1. shyted

        Re: Its pass the book time.

        Nigel, your points are very valid, however the manufacturers are selling these as "Smart Tvs". You-tube, Netflix, Facebook, Twitter and Amazon video were and are part of the marketing in stores POS, in media ads and also even on the boxes.

        The slow loss of such services after just a couple of years, just because the manufacture won't update the firmware, is worse than crappy behaviour, especially as the services still exist. If they're only going to support a models firmware for 1- or 2-3 years they should have to declare it, just like a food manufacturer has to put a best before or use by date on its products. Either that, or open source it once its obsolete, and make it possible to easily update.

  9. Dummy00001
    FAIL

    Google reminds of Microsoft of old

    Google reminds of the Microsoft of old.

    Loads of money and personality disorder.

    They have no idea where from the money are coming - and do not give a hoot for as long as they would keep coming.

    And they consistently make bad choices and sidestep real problems, because they have no idea who their customers are and what they need.

    It's Microsoft of 90s all over again.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Google reminds of Microsoft of old

      "they have no idea who their customers are and what they need."

      I doubt that. They know who their customers are. If you're a user of their services you're not one of them; you're the product.

      1. Dummy00001

        Re: Google reminds of Microsoft of old

        Yes, I am the product.

        But the thing is, even advertisers - the paying customers - are not much enthused about Google's product - *the* product - advertisement. From the accounts I have heard, there are lots better and cheaper advertisers out there, and more powerful and smart advertisement platforms - but Google simply has the largest outreach. The same accounts said that the problems are solved fast, but just like with the rest of the Google services, user feature requests apparently go straight into a recycle bin.

    2. RyokuMas Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Google reminds of Microsoft of old

      Been saying this (and getting downvoted) for months, but it's so true, even down to the astroturfers and the anticompetitive practices case...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Google reminds of Microsoft of old

      Google reminds of the Microsoft of old.

      Loads of money and personality disorder.

      You forgot to mention the total disregard for ethics and pesky laws that might get in the way of earning money.

      Yes, I spotted that a while back too (back in the days when GrokLaw still naïvely thought they were brilliant because they said "Do no evil"), but I'd say they're actually worse. MS has never tried to spy on the population other than for license purposes, whereas Google has IMHO* absolutely no problem with doing that if they can get away with it.

      * Added for legal purposes. For those who watch "Have I Got News", this is the Internet equivalent of "allegedly" :)

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Google reminds of Microsoft of old

        "You forgot to mention the total disregard for ethics and pesky laws that might get in the way of earning money."

        In other words, a successful business, from an investor's point of view.

      2. Hans 1 Silver badge

        Re: Google reminds of Microsoft of old

        @AC

        >but I'd say they're actually worse. MS has never tried to spy on the population other than for license purposes

        You owe me a new keyboard ... ever seen the "Send this error to Microsoft"? That feature helps the NSA figure out which 0 days they can send their target ... since they know which patches are installed, they can quickly find a suitable exploit.

        MS are evil, Apple and Google are evil ... but MS beat Apple and Google combined.

        I often read on here that Apple sues for "rounded corners" ... MS sues for "remote device"-like patents - just look at what patents they wave for android devices ... rediculous ... each and every one of those has prior art dating back to the 70's.

  10. stucs201

    This is why I miss the pre-web internet.

    It used to be that if a new type of service was introduced then a standard would be specified and those who wanted to provide that service implemented it. Sure it could take a while to agree the standard, but once done it'd be around for a very long time and work with whatever combination of client software+hardware and service provider the user wanted.

    These days we might get new stuff introduced faster, but it goes away faster too. Innovation might be a good thing, but so are stability and interoperability.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This is why I miss the pre-web internet.

      "Innovation might be a good thing, but so are stability and interoperability."

      How quaint. You'll never get a job in marketing.

      1. Richard Jones 1
        WTF?

        Re: This is why I miss the pre-web internet.

        Ah, Sales and Marketing - or the Granny sellers as we used to call them when I was at work.

      2. stucs201

        Re: You'll never get a job in marketing

        That is excellent news! I wouldn't want one,

    2. Badvok

      @stucs201: Standards?

      "but once done it'd be around for a very long time and work with whatever combination of client software+hardware and service provider the user wanted."

      Go on name one, just one 'standard' that was compatible and would just work across multiple vendors of software, hardware and service.

      1. stucs201

        Re: @stucs201: Standards?

        Well the internet would be pretty screwed if it's underlying standards didn't interoperate. I'll stay away from those though in case you get confused between configuration issues you may have had and the standard not working.

        Redbook CD audio.

        Doesn't matter who which pressing plant the CD came out of, what make of CD player or drive I use or in the case of computer playback who's playback software (provided it runs on the computer in question). Even discs produced decades after the player work. The only time I've ever known anyone have a problem is faulty discs or discs which have varied from the standard in the name of copy protection.

        1. Badvok

          Re: @stucs201: Standards?

          On yes I forgot that there is only one internet protocol isn't there and every vendor implemented it correctly? (For the uninitiated there is a movement towards version 6 of the protocol. Servers using version 6 can not communicate with servers using earlier versions without intermediaries but this is apparently an example of a good standard that works everywhere without fail.)

          Red Book Audio - I guess you must be too young to remember the early days of issues between vendors then. There were always some discs that would only work on certain players. We also had years of using caddies to try and stabilise discs so they could be read. And lets not get into how writable discs written on one machine would often fail to read on another when they came along.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @stucs201: Standards?

        "name one, just one 'standard' that was compatible and would just work across multiple vendors of software, hardware and service."

        The Ethernet and WiFi standards haven't done all that badly, considering.

        xDSL seems to do mostly OK most of the time (despite some telcos best efforts to b*ll*x their local implementations).

        Even FORTRAN (or Fortran for t'young'uns) didn't do too badly for a few years.

        Now, who can name a vendor whose OS vision and strategy, and their strategic products, change incompatibly every handful of years, to the extent that they are the subject of a string of jokes, and also need a massive ecosystem to ensure people don't go "off message" ?

        Sorry, wat was your point?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @stucs201: Standards?

        Go on name one, just one 'standard' that was compatible and would just work across multiple vendors of software, hardware and service.

        I'm hopping up and down in the stack here, but just a few:

        ASCII, TCP/IP, lots of early days RFCs such as SMTP, RTF. I was about to add CSV but that's now buggered in Excel (LibreOffice still does it OK).

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: @stucs201: Standards?

          ...and not forgetting the more obvious standards such as mains electricity, wall points, light bulbs and fittings, gas fires, boilers, cookers, batteries, and the list goes on and on and on and on.

          As for the OPs complaint about early redbook CDs, well yes, there were many problems in the early days of manufactures not properly implementing the standards either through corner cutting, rushing to market or just not having the skills to do the job properly. They learned, which is why there are no problems now (apart from the DRM shite some still try)

  11. SecretSonOfHG

    Google is pushing Apple sales

    My iPad 1, where I'm writing this, does not go beyond iOS 5 because Apple stopped releasing updates years ago. ITunes keeps telling me that there are updates available for the Youtube app, but when I try to install them, it says that they need an iOS version newer than 5.

    So the Youtube app will stop working because Google does not bother to port the app to iOS 5, even a reduced functionality version. Ironically, Google is sort of incentivizing Apple sales. Won't happen in my case, but well played, Google. I mean, Apple.

    All this in a device that is perfectly functional to this day. Were it not locked, I could perhaps purchase or write my own player app for my device, but I can't. Were the YT app code available, someone could tweak it to work with iOS >5, or with the new YT API, but nobody can.

    That Stallman guy sometimes is right.

    1. Tomato42 Silver badge
      Holmes

      Re: Google is pushing Apple sales

      what is scary is that Stallman is basically always right, he's just sometimes proven right 10 years later, not right away

      1. Hans 1 Silver badge

        Re: Google is pushing Apple sales

        >what is scary is that Stallman is basically always right, he's just sometimes proven right 10 years later, not right away

        BS, however, I upvoted. To those with a pair of functional brains, he is right since day 1. I know, it is no use arguing on a site that calls us the "retards" ...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Google is pushing Apple sales

        what is scary is that Stallman is basically always right, he's just sometimes proven right 10 years later, not right away

        No, he really is too extreme IMHO, I've met him a few times. This is the guy that will always leave a bad impression with non-hackers, but that's the benefit of living in a paid-for ivory tower - he doesn't need to care about that. It's about making choices, not ramming your preference down everyone's throat without evaluating the motivation behind other choices.

    2. Hans 1 Silver badge

      Re: Google is pushing Apple sales

      >Were it not locked, I could perhaps purchase or write my own player app for my device, but I can't.

      1. Yes you can, go get xcode and learn how to google ...too lazy ? Goto 2.

      2. Go on and moan, did I buy a proprietary product or did you ? Now you understand all the fuss you hear from the Free Software "retards", as they are often called around here ...

      The same goes for the Windows users ... your printer/scanner/whatever device no longer supported and you take the piss out of the "freetards" ?

      I'm loving it!

      1. SecretSonOfHG

        Re: Google is pushing Apple sales

        "1. Yes you can, go get xcode and learn how to google ...too lazy ? Goto 2."

        No, I can't. At least without spending about $1000 on Apple computers and Developer Program memberships so that I can create an app and install it on my own device. See, not everyone has a Mac already. For that price I can buy 5 of the next cheap and decent Android tablets. Or a new iPad and have some spare change.

        I think you're not getting my point, which is: don't buy proprietary or locked products because you're at the mercy of the one holding the lock as to what you can and what you can't do with them. My first iPad 1 was a gift, not my choice. That's why I said that I was not going to buy one as a "fix" for the Youtube app.

  12. Root Ginger

    Panasonic 2012 P50VT50

    I have a 2012 Pansonic P50VT50, the Youtube App was recently updated so it doesn't affect all older TVs providing the manufacturer still supports them. I've been quite surprised at how long Panasonic supported the TV with firmware and software upgrades. There are regular updates to the Smart TV apps available, even now. Just the other day there were 5 new apps added and then two more a week later.

    1. James R Grinter

      Re: Panasonic 2012 P50VT50

      I have a 2011 Panasonic, bought early 2012. They haven't updated the (Panasonic-implemented) YouTube interface that it receives.

      That it is delivered via their online-based Viera network - i.e. it doesn't even require a software update - just really grates. Frankly I expect to get 7-10 years from a telly, in fact as long as the picture showing bit continues to show pictures!

  13. icesenshi

    So a 3year old tele is now considered 'obsolete'. I thought studies show most people keep theirs until they die, so 5-10 years.

    1. Oldfogey

      Only 10 years?

      A long time ago my in-laws rented a big CRT TV and a VHS recorder.

      After 15 years the rental co went bust, so they paid a tenner to buy the kit from the liquidator.

      Another 10 years later, the picture got unstable, so they went and invested in a brand new LCD TV.

      Ten years later it is still running, now with a digibox, but the original VHS is still in use.

      It will not be changed in the foreseeable future.

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Only 10 years?

        I have a 23-year-old Panasonic VCR that still works, and that I occasionally use. It was connected to a little TV (don't remember the brand) that I just had to replace a couple of months ago when the vertical hold went.

        My daughter has my 19-year-old Magnavox TV in the kid's playroom - still works. I admit I did have it repaired once, a few years into its life, when the power supply died.

  14. Alan Denman

    HTML 5 is the future, and good riddance

    Sarcasm.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: HTML 5 is the future, and good riddance

      Pretty much. This pretty much proves that writing anything in HTML 5 comes with such dependencies that it's really just fluff for web browsers and should never be in a position to be considered "deployable". Basically, it's 1995 when it comes to intuitive design with HTML 5 and shouldn't leave a web browser.

  15. Jonski
    Facepalm

    SMART?

    SMART:- System Meets Archaic Requirements for Technology.

    In the meantime, my free OpenELEC (Kodi (XBMC)) media center and associated 12TB NAS just keeps on pretty much eating the competition. Plus, I can upgrade at will. Come the day I get a UHD TV (purchased as I ice skate across the frozen brimstone lakes of hell) I can just drop in a gruntier video card and presto.

  16. Jeffrey Nonken Silver badge

    Entered from my iPhone 3Gs.

    Oops.

    The good news: I already have a pair of newer (Android) phones on order to replace this and my daughter's. These work but are getting long in the tooth.

  17. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
    Pint

    The ONLY way to watch YouTube is...

    The ONLY way to watch YouTube is on a device that enables one to install an Ad Blocker.

    One of the big advantages of the latest crop of cheap and cheerful Windows 8.1 tablets and netbooks is that one can install an ad blocker very easily (ironically, even into Chrome, LOL). The fact that these Win 8.1 gadgets are being sold at giveaway prices in recent months is a bonus. Great gadgets for YouTube.

    Frankly, Android is so last year. After watching my Nexus 7 grind to a halt due to the Google Is Stoopid bug, I'm getting low on goodwill for those Google asshat fackors.

    Posted from an 8-inch $100 Win tablet. Not bad. Works well.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The ONLY way to watch YouTube is...

      The ONLY way to watch YouTube is on a device that enables one to install an Ad Blocker.

      Nope - they're way ahead of you there. They have a number of ways in which they inject video ads into the data stream. One is what I'd call the DVD model where you only get to see content after you suffered through ads you cannot fast forward (although you're sometimes "granted" a "Skip Ad" option), the other one is the TV model where the clip is interrupted by ads - you can usually spot them on the timeline.

      On the plus side, because they are models that you're familiar with you also already know how to deal with them - you go and do something else. And if you're like me, you fantasise during that waiting time about the RIAA needing your skills so you can put their top executives in a room and give them a presentation which starts with a lecture on copyright law that tells them they should steal a wallet, nor replicate your presentation without permission, and interlace the rest of with random advertising of the wonderful things you have done, and maybe some bad holiday snaps thrown in.

      Sorry, dreamt for a moment there. I would probably start with getting their projector changed because it's from the wrong region :)

      1. Tomato42 Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: The ONLY way to watch YouTube is...

        either I'm watching youtubers which don't enable this kind of ads or my version of ABP does some wonders, as I literally never see ads other than the ones _maker_ of the video inserted

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The ONLY way to watch YouTube is...

          it's likely to be using the soon to be depreciated API

          1. Hellcat

            Re: The ONLY way to watch YouTube is...

            Watching via Chromecast seems to free me from watching adverts - I guess they've had some money from me already though?

        2. AndrueC Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: The ONLY way to watch YouTube is...

          I literally never see ads

          Me neither - but then I only use it for golf instruction videos and some old TV shows if I'm feeling nostalgic. I don't think anyone's going to bother inserting adverts into Project UFO :D

  18. Bob Dole (tm)

    hrm..

    I have a couple samsung smart TVs that were released last year - the youtube app has always had the sound out of sync. Samsung says it's Google's fault, Google says it's samsungs fault. Personally, I don't care as neither samsung nor google will figure into my next TV purchase - except, perhaps, that those brands aren't anywhere near it.

    1. Hans 1 Silver badge

      Re: hrm..

      In a freetard world, some hack would have fixed it already ... sadly ... buy proprietary, get all you deserve.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    10 year old 42" HD Plasma monitor

    One HDMI connection, taken up by the external Tuner/PVR.

    TV still works a treat!

    - No real wifi

    - No 3D shenanigans

    - No smart TV stuff, I have a computer for that

    - No spying/tracking

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Evolution

    Like me, all the other commentors on this thread are smarter than your average person, so we saw this coming as it has come before in IT.

    The rest of the world need to work through these problems of bricking (kinda) a 3 or 4 year old device due to inability to update.

    This has happened with Android phones, now punters look for the updatable ones and manufacturers are getting smarter.

    Now the other (or often same) manufacturers of smart TVs need to think more, the stuff they were pushing out a couple of years ago was "anything to get us in the smart TV section of walmart".

    They will have punters who are thinking, "i wont buy an xyz again" etc etc ... simple mind of the sell and buy world.

    TL:DR ... in a few years time all devices that have anything smart about them will be updatable.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Meh

    So as a rule...

    ...when it comes to Google, as a rule, if it's over 3 years old, it's unsupported and landfill?

    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Re: So as a rule...

      So as a rule...

      ...when it comes to Google, as a rule, if it's over 3 years old, it's unsupported and landfill?

      I sense you're thinking about something in particular. Android? Smart cars?

      :)

    2. Yag

      Re: So as a rule...

      ... And if it's under 3 years old, it's still a beta veta version with neither support nor responsibility taken.

  22. Panicnow

    Class Action needed

    I fancy that features used to market a device need to be maintained for a reasonable time, e.g. the normal "life" of a TV in this case say 10years. Otherwise it is miss-selling or fraud.

    If I'm wrong, then our law makers need to enact such a law!

    When IoT gets going, "upgrade" could shut down your life-support!

  23. James12345

    Don't tell me you were stupid enough to buy an expensive "SMART" TV

    and are now complaining about how dumb it is.

    Buy a dumb TV that has a great picture and add to it the functions you need (not the ones you think you want) with a STB of some description. The TV has less to break, and upgrades when you need them are easy.

    1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad
      Big Brother

      Re: Don't tell me you were stupid enough to buy an expensive "SMART" TV

      Oh dear, oh dear. This reminds me - I may have forgotten to pick up that fancy smart TV from the store. Come to think of it, I also forgot to swipe the credit card.

      With my old memory failing like that, I'll never be a model citizen. [sob]

  24. All names Taken
    Alien

    So ...

    ... older computers won't display You Tube videos?

    No harm there then (and probably quite a lot of good?)?

  25. Michael Habel Silver badge

    Oh how very magnanimous of them then...

    OtOH they'll let everyone with WindowsXP sh-- up everyone else's internet for a whole Year, but deny everyone else with an older TV / Blueray / (Cr)Apple TV the ability to use YouTube...

  26. Frederick Tennant

    this is great news.

    Now I can buy a old flagship TV for next to nothing and pop a android box on it.

  27. werdsmith Silver badge

    Don't really understand why people are suggesting that a google change will make your smart TV dumb, so go straight to dumb yourself is better? A TV is not a dedicated YouTube player.

    Try and find a TV without smart functions, it's not easy these days and when you do find one it is not really less expensive. Losing YouTube doesn't make the TV landfill unless you only watch Youtube.

    Netflix are not going anywhere because their customers are pay customers and Netflix are not going to shut the door on customers who are handing over cash.

    First world problems? Stormy mountain out of a molehill in a teacup.

  28. nijam

    Smart TVs - they aren't actually smart, you know. They just seem that way compared to the people who buy them.

  29. Valarian

    Bravia Fail

    By chance I was comparing the built-in YT app on my 2013 Sony Bravia with the YT channel provided by Plex running on my NAS. There was a message on the Bravia app saying it was being discontinued, and to use the new YT app, which I duly located elsewhere in the list and fired-up.

    It sat there for 7 minutes showing nothing on a blank screen but a progress 'spinny'. Then it crashed hard with an Out of Memory error, failing so badly that most other 'smart' TV functions were also taken down and even a power-cycle wouldn't fix things. It needed a factory-settings reset to get everything working again.

    The only thing Smart about that experience was the stinging sensation I got when I slapped my own forehead and said 'Doh!'.

  30. Jim 59

    Google pulls plug on... again

    They should never have been allowed to buy YouTube.

  31. stewwy

    *** DO NOT BUY BETAMAX****

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Stewwy

      Did Agnes Nutter have anything to say about smart TVs?

  32. AndrueC Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Google, characteristically, has tried to cast the end of service in a positive light, describing it as an "upgrade."

    Plus ca change. Blockbuster video took the same approach many years ago when they closed the store on my estate. Instead of a five minute walk to the local shops I had a fifteen minute walk (or five minute drive) to the town centre. Nonetheless this didn't stop them describing it as 'Your new convenient store'.

  33. Flatpackhamster

    I have had exactly this.

    On my 3-year old Panasonic plasma TV, and my 2 year old Panasonic Blu-Ray/smart box.

    'Older' systems my arse.

    1. Hans 1 Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      Re: I have had exactly this.

      @ Flatpackhamster

      >On my 3-year old Panasonic plasma TV, and my 2 year old Panasonic Blu-Ray/smart box.

      >'Older' systems my arse.

      I am often called a freetard on here since I would never have bought that proprietary BS ... now, who of us two is the retard ?

      Remember, I'll write it yet again, it is the same with Windows/OS X/<insert_proprietary_bs>, proprietary ware sucks, blobs suck - now you know why.

      Paris coz she sucks quite a lot as well ...

      1. Flatpackhamster

        Re: I have had exactly this.

        So I'm a retard because I bought a device which, unbeknownst to me, had a preset shelf life that none of my electronic devices have ever had before?

        Classy.

        1. Tomato42 Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: I have had exactly this.

          you were buying a computer and pretending to yourself you were buying "just a TV"

          lack of updateability would have been obvious otherwise

  34. thtechnologist

    This is great....

    For the odd looks I get when I tell people NOT to buy a "smart" TV. I'll just point them here after explaining like a 5 year old to them to back up my point.

    1. Hans 1 Silver badge

      Re: This is great....

      You should ask:

      What is cheaper, the latest <tv> or the latest raspberry pi ?

  35. cortland

    TV?

    I had one, once. Sent it to the scrap yard in, lets see (hmm) ... 1997. Let's deprecate streaming videos that open when you're trying to conserve bandwidth. And wherein'l are the f**kin' transcripts?

  36. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    Although I have watched YouTube on my new smart TV, I don't do so with any sort of regularity on account of that's not why I bought the TV.

    I have cable for HBO, though it is turning into the 12-hours-of-boxing-then-12-hours-of-Game-of-Thrones network and so decreasingly relevant in my viewing preferences, Netflix for most things I actually want to watch (UK series without adverts thank you very much BBC America, almost-new movies, foreign movies etc) and cable for The Daily Show and New Tricks.

    I imagine that if a new API means a new app, the network that supplies the apps for my TV will probably address that. If they don't, well, pfft. I've yet to see anything on YouTube that warrants a big screen or lives up to the visual real-estate (though I'll cut that Polish Spiderdog bloke some slack).

  37. Lee Taylor
    Trollface

    Never has any of these issues with Ceefax not working on older TVs.....

  38. joekhul

    WTF

    Where are all El Reg Freetards crying for Google's head to their lame Euro Gov'ts because they are shutting down a service.

    "I hate El Goog, PUnish them for turning off the U-tubes! We Freetards demand they service this for free forever on everything!"

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    google plug puller

    this just underlined my decision not to go chromebook - google is great for many many things - but if you expect a solid reliable service that is compatible for at least 10 years - we seem to be SOL

    it seems to be a company philosophy

  40. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    I wonder if this is why...

    ...Virginmedia have been having trouble with Youtube for the last couple of weeks?

    (It may be longer, I don't often use Youtube on the telly but wanted to watch the latest Dragon launch the other week. Watched it on the laptop instead)

  41. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

    Y'know what?

    I just found my old library ticket. Been buried in books ever since. Its great. Anyone want an old TV (Without poo tube)?

  42. jelabarre59 Silver badge

    > ...will even cut off YouTube access for versions 2 and earlier of its own Google TV platform, presumably because it would like to shift customers toward the newer Android TV, which replaces it.

    Considering Netgear will probably never develop an upgrade for the NeoTV Prime to AndroidTV, I guess that box is less and less useful every day (and it's only a year old). Heck, I doubt Netgear will ever release an AndroidTV product at all. Google may have declared GoogleTV dead, but Netgear continues to sell that very same product to this day (support ends even *before* the box leaves the factory).

  43. jelabarre59 Silver badge

    This is why I keep my systems componentized. The "TV" is effectively just a monitor; any content comes from the devices attached to it. And those devices can be swapped out as needed. The only reason out living-room TV is a mere 7-years old is the old one melted in a house fire.

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