back to article Cross-dressing blokes storm NSA HQ: One shot dead, one hurt

One man is dead and another seriously hurt after they tried ramming a car into the gates of the NSA's headquarters in Fort Meade, Maryland. Just before 9am on Monday, Eastern Time, the two men – dressed as women – attempted to smash through a checkpoint and into the data center complex using a stolen Ford Explorer, NBC reports …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Too soon

    The fools, Transgender Day Of Visibility is *tomorrow*.

    1. NoneSuch

      Re: Too soon

      If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

      1. A. Coatsworth
        Coat

        @NoneSuch

        Oh, but they are! The NSA is trying to protect your data with all their might. Why do you think they want to have it all in their datacenters?

        The one with the matching tinfoil hat, thanks ------------------------->

      2. Tapeador
        Mushroom

        Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

        Let me get this right. You're interested in spooks not being able to even scan everyone's telephone records or emails for evidence of terrorism, thus protecting somehow some ideal of absolute privacy against electronic intrusion, but you're not interested in them protecting your safety thereby.

        At some point you're going to have to accept that a certain number of deaths through terrorism are unacceptable and require a surrender of part of your inviolable shield of privacy. It seems like you haven't reached that moment yet. How many deaths a year? 50? 100? 1000?

        1. JustNiz

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          >> Let me get this right. You're interested in spooks not being able to even scan everyone's telephone records or emails. .... At some point you're going to have to accept that a certain number of deaths through terrorism are unacceptable

          Its uninformed, paranoid idiots like you like you that are the real problem. You have no sense of perspective and are simply buying into the mass hysteria that the NSA are promotoing just to get you to mindlessly comply with their rape of our constituional rights.

          The hard fact is that the chance of a civilian located in the US being murdered as a result of terrorism is vanishingly small. Statistically you are 5 times more likely to be struck by lighting than killed by a terrorist. You are 8 times more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist. If you REALLY want to save lives, why aren't you advocating thatt something be done about gunhappy cops, or better yet, heart disease, since You are 17,600 times more likely to die from heart disease than from a terrorist attack. Reduicing either of those would not only be far more actually productive, but also don't require people to relinquish theiir constitutional rights.

          http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/youre-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-a-toddler-than-a-terrorist.html

          1. phil dude
            Thumb Up

            Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

            @JustNiz:

            Well said. Besides "terrorism" is a made up political fiction. Anyone who kills or maims for an ideology is simply criminal and stupid.

            Such good bed fellows...

            P.

          2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
            FAIL

            JustWiz Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

            ".....The hard fact is that the chance of a civilian located in the US being murdered as a result of terrorism is vanishingly small....." That's because of the work by the spooks, the armed services, and those a lot more informed than you.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              @Matt Bryasnt: Re: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

              That sort of response makes me furious. You sit there writing articles, giving talks, running a business to make you a living/money. I worked in two police forces in different countries, including England during the IRA times when people, including some I knew personally, were injured or killed. I lived in London when three bombs went off, at different times, within a few hundred metres of my flat. But note, I lived. I and my friends did not cower. We did not demand limits on our freedom of action, expression or thought to make us safe. If that is what you want, look at the examples of countries that have or do exercise that approach to society and decide if that is where you want to end.

              Back to British terrorism: the great thing to me was that we did not demonise all Irishmen and we did not indulge in paranoia that turned society into a closed, restricted system, perhaps because it was the Americans funding most of the illegal activity so they were not pushing their current point of view.

              It may or may not be that various state services have been effective. What I do know is that there is a lot less terrorism, much more finely targeted than we had in the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s and that some Irish may think there still is some. I do know that France and Spain suffered badly from Basque and other groups, that Germany and Italy had some bad experiences. Fortunately, a free society persisted anyway.

              Now, the ignorant, unimaginative and frightened are having their way, producing a quisling approach that has neighbours reporting tittle-tattle, police and "security" guards bullying peoplel for taking photographs or standing in a public but "wrong" place, train and aeroplane spotting, internet curiosity and so on viewed with suspicion.

              As has been pointed out, do you avoid driving a car or crossing a road because of the much larger and more widely distributed risk of death or injury? Do you cower indoors when the wind gets too strong in case a tree falls or a tile from a roof hits you? Do you avoid flying or sitting on a crowded bus where your neighbour may pass on a cold that could turn to pneumonia and kill you? Do you stop your children from going outside alone in case something awful happens? Do you avoid restaurants in case the kitchen is dirty or the food not properly kept and cleaned?

              Risk is part of life. Freedom has its risks. Freedom to go mountaineering or swimming or ride a bicycle or repair your own roof or use sharp tools in the garden or walk on slippery streets; freedom to go on holiday to countries without British standards of health, policing, building safety do not prevail.

              You are more likely to get into a dangerous fracas going to the pub or walking around London than you are to be hurt by terrorist action. Certainly, driving a car often will almost certainly involve you in an accident sooner or later;

              In fact, you are probably more lilely to be mishandled by "authorities" in the cause of keeping society safe than you are to be the victim of terrorism. Fear set up the system that enabled a possibly ill pilot to block a colleague out and kill 149 people. Fear will bring in an even worse answer. I am sure that the sheer fear reaction is creating more danger while stealing our freedom than all the terrorism in Europe.

              Get out of your cosy, civilian work environment in a nice, safe office and try something more exposed, or even try working on a farm, building site, in a mine, on a fishing boat and then worry about the risks of harm, combined with seriously hard work. Or would you close down all these activities because rather a lot of people get hurt doing them?

              1. David Roberts Silver badge
                Mushroom

                Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                "That sort of response makes me furious."

                Me too.

                I see the US (government, corporate and individual citizens) as a bunch of irresponsible, unruly children with no real understanding of how their actions affect other people. Standing on top of a high rise building with a pile of rocks, throwing them off and watching them hit the ants and Dinky Toys far below and cheering each other on. Safe in the knowledge that they are too far away for any retribution.

                Finally someone made the long and painful effort to climb all that way up and spank one of the kids.

                Cue floods of tears, recriminations, and blaming the nasty person who smacked one of them.

                Perhaps followed by the understanding that if you stand there chucking rocks off your high rise building it is actually affecting real people down below.

                For perspective, why not Google "US funding IRA post 9/11" and see what turns up.

                Be very clear; I do not support violence and terrorism.

                Be equally clear; I despise those who fund violence and terrorism.

                Final touch of clarification - I believe that the vast majority of US citizens are decent, caring and very polite people who do not and did not support or fund violence and terrorism. Shame about the rest, though.

              2. TonyJ Silver badge

                Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                Well said.

              3. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                Stop

                Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                ".....I worked in two police forces in different countries, including England during the IRA times...the great thing to me was that we did not demonise all Irishmen and we did not indulge in paranoia that turned society into a closed, restricted system...." Yeah, and I call male bovine manure on that story! Your "memories" seem to have forgotten such measures as the armed soldiers manning roadblocks and conducting sweeps in Northern Ireland - Bloody Sunday ring any bells? Or the extensive and often deadly work of the SAS (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-kill_policy_in_Northern_Ireland) and the clandestine monitoring of whole Northern Irish neighbourhood by such Army units at The Specials (14 Intelligence Company), let alone the spooks. We Brits spent plenty of time and effort defeating the IRA and it wasn't without a large chunk of nastiness. Please come back when your "memory" has stopped being so selective.

                1. x 7

                  Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                  The "nastiness" was required and deserved. If anything, it should have been escalated and more IRA scum killed

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                    The "nastiness" was required and deserved. If anything, it should have been escalated and more IRA scum killed

                    Would that have helped anything? Did the escalation of security force violence in the 1970s prevent the mainland campaign?

                    Did more violence bring SF/PIRA to the discussion table to end their particular part of the conflict?

                    1. x 7

                      Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                      "Did more violence bring SF/PIRA to the discussion table to end their particular part of the conflict?"

                      When they finally were sickened themselves by the level of violence, and when they started running out of "volunteers", then yes, it did.

                  2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                    Thumb Up

                    Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                    "The "nastiness" was required and deserved...." Oh, I certainly agree. I was just trying to point out the fallacy in the idea the campaign was whiter-than-white. Anyone that thinks you can fight such determined terrorism with kind thoughts alone is a danger to themselves.

                2. boltar Silver badge

                  Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                  "seem to have forgotten such measures as the armed soldiers manning "

                  Apparently you don't know the difference between the police and the army.

                  "Bloody Sunday"

                  Deliberatly provoked by IRA gunmen firing into the air.

                  1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                    Facepalm

                    Re: boltar Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                    "....Apparently you don't know the difference between the police and the army....." Apart from the fact I most certainly do, probably knowing more people from both services than you ever will, the majority of Army actions in NI were not only co-ordinated with local police, but when the Army was working on security in the UK (such as around public events, barracks, etc.) they did so in conjunction with the local police, and a lot of intelligence on IRA threats was shared. To claim to have been a serving policeman during the Troubles, as the original poster did, yet not know that is - frankly - highly unbelievable.

                    "....Deliberatly provoked by IRA gunmen firing into the air....." Either way, you do recall the large military presence, all well-armed, ready to go to-to-toe with any IRA that showed up? Not exactly the "we was benign and unchanged" approach claimed by the original poster. Indeed, I used to drink an Irish pub in London back in the day, and Irish pubs in London were divided along sectarian lines, all the ones having drinkers from the "wrong side" of the Shankill Road having the pleasure of a pair of plain-clothed coppers in attendance most evenings. This was doubly amusing seeing as I knew a few of the coppers involved, but does point out the "paranoia"/"prejudice"/precautions taken by the authorities of the day.

                3. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                  @Matt - did you feel left out with the trolling? Nice catch up though.

                  "Yeah, and I call male bovine manure on that story! Your "memories" seem to have forgotten such measures as the armed soldiers manning roadblocks and conducting sweeps in Northern Ireland"

                  Not sure how this relates to the police reaction to the Manchester bombing. The ring of steel around Belfast was largely considered a mistaken over-reaction which did more to support the terrorist cause than anything else.

                  "Bloody Sunday"

                  And how good was this in reducing the terrorist threat? How many peoples lives did it save?

                  "The Specials (14 Intelligence Company)"

                  Not the same thing.

                  " We Brits spent plenty of time and effort defeating the IRA and it wasn't without a large chunk of nastiness."

                  Correct with a slight modification about defeating them - there are soldiers, policemen and prison offers who are STILL fighting this battle every day and have died in the process. The Irish Repuplican terrorist threat most certainly has NOT gone away.

                  Just to be clear though - how much privacy has the general public had to surrender in this battle?

                  Even in the 1980s, during the PIRA mainland campaigns, how often were people stopped in Britain? How much privacy did people in Britain have to give up so the the police forces could fight this terrorist threat - which was (and still is) significantly more capable and more effective than any current Islamic group?

                  Remember the approaches used then - not giving them the oxygen of publicity, not letting fear change our behaviours, not letting fear dominate our lives?

                  Seems like people do the opposite for Islamic terrorism.

                  1. Matt Bryant Silver badge

                    Re: AC Re: @Matt Bryasnt: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                    "....Not sure how this relates to the police reaction to the Manchester bombing...." Due to their large number of the population with both Irish roots and revolutionary tendencies, both Manchester and Birmingham received special attention during the Troubles. Manchester was viewed as both a gateway to the UK and launching point for many IRA sympathisers and activists coming over from Belfast and Eire. Instructions to the coppers were pretty minimal and "being Irish" was enough to get an extra check coming off the ferries. Any Manc copper would know that.

                    "....And how good was this in reducing the terrorist threat?...." The point has nothing to do with effectiveness, simply it goes to show that we had a very violent reaction and not the "kumbyah" attitude claimed by the original poster. Indeed, the Bloody Sunday events may have been kicked off by a British Army sniper - such snipers regularly shot IRA gunmen during daylight and at night throughout the Troubles, just one of the many facts most of the UK population are unaware of.

                    ".....Not the same thing...." ??? Are you confusing the Specials (14IC) with the old police "Specials"? Yes, not the same thing, the former being an Army special services unit tasked with undercover surveillance of IRA suspects, formerly convicted IRA members, and suspected sympathisers. Oh, and supposedly the Loyalists as well for balance, though I'm reliably informed that was more for appearances. Again, an unit very few in the UK are aware of.

                    "....The Irish Repuplican terrorist threat most certainly has NOT gone away....." Not totally, but it is much reduced, Especially as much of the old IRA has decided drug dealing is more lucrative.

                    "....Just to be clear though - how much privacy has the general public had to surrender in this battle?...." Phone interception was in place throughout the Troubles, with automatic recording upon keyword available on exchanges in the Eighties at least, and possibly earlier, across the major UK cities. Anyone that came into contact with a "person of interest" was investigated, a process which could involve quite in-depth digging into your private affairs. I know that as I knew someone that lost his clearance over a girlfriend because she had come in contact with IRA sympathisers via her uni student union.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: AC @Matt Bryant

                      "Manchester was viewed as both a gateway to the UK and launching point for many IRA sympathisers and activists coming over from Belfast and Eire."

                      Just to check, which ferry port would GMP officers monitor to spot the RA coming over from either Belfast or the Republic?

                      Manchester SB did end up being Counter Terrorist Command for the region, but not at the height of the troubles. You should speak to Strathclyde officers from the time, or the ports guys at Dumfries and Galloway police.

                      "Are you confusing the Specials (14IC) with the old police "Specials"?"

                      Are you confusing "14 Int Company" with a group called the Specials? The Det wasnt called the specials and even the "Special Reconnaissance Unit" wasnt called the Specials. Neither were JCU(NI), NITAT(NI), MRF or the current Special Reconnaissance Regiment.

                      When you say "the specials" - who do you mean?

                      And to clear up the other points, telephone interception was on a much smaller scale (almost targeted you might say) so isnt comparable with modern approaches and the RA have always got huge gobs of money from drug dealing and prostitution.

                      1. x 7

                        Re: AC @Matt Bryant

                        "which ferry port would GMP officers monitor to spot the RA coming over from either Belfast or the Republic?"

                        Special Branch definitely monitored Heysham and Fleetwood. Presumably a regional CT team rather than a specific Lancashire one. I would have expected - some - Manchester officers to be involved. Irish passenger transport through both was low, in the case of Heysham two-stage via the Isle of Man - but was still monitored

                        As to monitoring, as I've pointed out on this site before, the GPO/BT had a "research centre" at White Lund (between Lancaster and Morecambe) whose reason for existence was telephone taps. The site was closed and demolished in the 1980's and is little known about. It was based in a set of WWII H-blocks, and was usefully close to the main trunk feeding Northern Ireland via Heysham

                        1. PrivateCitizen

                          Re: AC @Matt Bryant

                          " Presumably a regional CT team rather than a specific Lancashire one." - not in the 80s. The regionalisation of the teams came later than that and while GMP may have seconded officers, it was still very much down to force teams until at least the mid 90s, by which time the PIRA threat on the mainland had all but gone.

                      2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                        FAIL

                        Re: AC Re: AC @Matt Bryant

                        ".....The Det wasnt called the specials and even the "Special Reconnaissance Unit" wasnt called the Specials....." Oh, they were, just obviously not by people that you had any contact with.

                        ".....telephone interception was on a much smaller scale (almost targeted you might say) so isnt comparable with modern approaches....." Gee, you think! Forty-plus years of tech development and its use hasn't stood still, what a surprise! Have you got any more hairs you want to split before you just admit eavesdropping has been around a lot longer than Ma Snowden's boy?

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: AC AC @Matt Bryant

                          "Oh, they were, just obviously not by people that you had any contact with."

                          Ok - just to confirm then, you made this up and have decided that because you and your mate(s?) called them the Specials it must mean something. And dont try to imply that this was the name they were called on the ground in NI either cos that is bollocks.

                          If you call the SAS the specials, then you probably learned most of what you know from Andy McNab books.

                          "Have you got any more hairs you want to split before you just admit eavesdropping has been around a lot longer than Ma Snowden's boy?"

                          You are the one splitting hairs. Eavesdropping has been around since eaves were built but the mass interception of everyone's communications traffic is significantly different and the change to technology means we need to implement greater controls rather than just suck it up and say "hey, back in the day we used to listen to that suspected terrorist so it is all good."

                          1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                            FAIL

                            Re: AC Re: AC AC @Matt Bryant

                            "....Ok - just to confirm then, you made this up and have decided that because you and your mate(s?) called them the Specials it must mean something...." Oh no, I mean actual people on the ground. True, there are other nicknames for the 14IC and the Special Recce Unit ("Squints", "Dets", "Sroos"), probably ones I don't know, but "Specials" is one I do know even if you do not. Please do feel free to pretend you know everything, it will amuse.

                            ".....And dont try to imply that this was the name they were called on the ground in NI either cos that is bollocks....." Please do try and insist you have spoken to every member of the various services that were involved, it will only make your hysterical denials all the funnier.

                            "....If you call the SAS the specials...." I didn't, so stop trying to pretend I did.

                            "....then you probably learned most of what you know from Andy McNab books....." Ah, I begin to see the source of your "expertise"......

                            "....and say "hey, back in the day we used to listen to that suspected terrorist so it is all good."" All of which shows you comprehended nothing from my original post - the ability I mentioned was to intercept ANY landline call in the UK at will, with automatic monitoring for keywords on AT LEAST the majority of city exchanges. At the same time, the NSA and GCHQ already had automatic scanning and intercept of non-landline communications such as radio in the UK (and it seems most of the World - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/dag-hammarskjold-1961-death-inquiry), with British capability going back to manual intercept technology in WW1 (such as the Admiralty Room 40 OB department). Which was a far, far cry from the bullshit "we used to listen to that suspected terrorist" you are pushing. Indeed, it seems the UK authorities had the capability to eavesdrop on the UK public for pretty much all of the last century. Maybe you should do a lot more reading other than just Andy McNab, mmmkay?

                            1. Anonymous Coward
                              Anonymous Coward

                              Re: AC AC AC @Matt Bryant

                              Oh no, I mean actual people on the ground. True, there are other nicknames for the 14IC and the Special Recce Unit ("Squints", "Dets", "Sroos"), probably ones I don't know, but "Specials" is one I do know even if you do not. Please do feel free to pretend you know everything, it will amuse.

                              Squints weren't 14 Int. Sroos werent any covert unit on the ground in NI during Banner.

                              Please do try and insist you have spoken to every member of the various services that were involved, it will only make your hysterical denials all the funnier.

                              Its ok, you and your mate(s) called 14 int the specials. We get that. It just wasn't a common nickname for them by actual soldiers. You dont need to feel bad about that.

                              And nice shot at reflection with Mcnab - you are the one with knowledge from fiction. Others appear to have posting orders which give them a better insight. But its ok, troll on my son, troll on.

                              1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                FAIL

                                Re: AC AC AC @Matt Bryant

                                ".....Squints weren't 14 Int...." Really? You mean you were magically party to EVERY conversation by EVERYONE in ALL the military and civil services involved in the Troubles, from start to finish? I don't even think the GCHQ would try to claim to have overheard that many conversations! Try not failing so hard with your next post.

                                Just to "amuse" you further, an old mate from the PSNI says a common slur amongst the RUC was to call the 14IC "the guano" - no idea why, maybe you could provide the background, what with you having such an unquestionable of EVERYTHING to do with NI.

                                /We really need a big "whatev" icon.

                                1. Anonymous Coward
                                  Anonymous Coward

                                  Re: AC AC AC @Matt Bryant

                                  @Matt - you are going for the bellend award here, aren't you? You've got my vote.

                                  As I said, you and your mate(s) might have called 14 Int Squint/Sroo or even "love bunny" for all I know. All you are saying is that you can call them that because someone, somewhere, might have given them that nick name. #fail

                                  I keep pointing out that you've confused nicknames that were common for different units. It kind of points to your knowledge of the era/region being a bit, erm, "booklearned" more than anything else. Its like saying people call the RE scaleys. I dont doubt that someone, somewhere might have called them that but it isnt normal, it isnt common and if you speak to 99% of people in the army they will assume you are talking about RSigs.

                                  Seriously though, its ok. If you and your mate(s) want to call 14 Int something else, you can. Just dont expect anyone else to agree with you.

                                  1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                                    FAIL

                                    Re: AC AC AC @Matt Bryant

                                    ".....you are going for the bellend award here, aren't you?....." No chance of winning that award whilst you're still breathing!

                                    ".....I keep pointing out that you've confused nicknames that were common for different units....." No, you flat out insisted that no-one very called them anything but what you called them because you knew everything. Quote: "....Ok - just to confirm then, you made this up and have decided that because you and your mate(s?) called them the Specials it must mean something. And dont try to imply that this was the name they were called on the ground in NI either cos that is bollocks....."

                                    "....It kind of points to your knowledge of the era/region being a bit, erm, "booklearned" more than anything else...." Seeing as it is you that does not seem to recognise their different nicknames (and denies that HMG did anything other than smile kindly throughout the Troubles), it would seem you need to look in the mirror for a better case of lack of knowledge.

                                    1. Anonymous Coward
                                      Anonymous Coward

                                      Re: AC AC AC @Matt Bryant

                                      No chance of winning that award whilst you're still breathing!

                                      I see what you did there - very funny. Almost, anyway.

                                      No, you flat out insisted that no-one very called them anything but what you called them because you knew everything.

                                      Erm, no and the quote you posted doesnt support that position either. You've used a nickname for one unit for a different unit and now you are clutching at straws to try and find some way you dont look stupid.

                                      Like said, you are welcome to call the RE guys bleeps, but dont expect anyone else to think it makes sense.

                                      Seeing as it is you that does not seem to recognise their different nicknames

                                      Erm, no. No matter how much you say this it isnt true. You can call the RMP "woofers" and the Paras "monkeys" but it still doesnt make it the normal nicknames for various units - and doing so to sound on-trend is pretty funny.

                                      (and denies that HMG did anything other than smile kindly throughout the Troubles)

                                      I dont recall being the one who did that.

            2. Blane Bramble

              Re: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

              Yes, and they managed to keep us safe using genuine, old school trade-craft for years without the ability or requirement to scan all our communications.

              The false sense of security and data overload means that a security service that thinks the ability to scan everything means they have solved the issue and don't need to put people on the ground into dangerous places will endanger us all.

              We are less safe with mass surveillance, nor more. It becomes a needle in a haystack, rather than intelligent, targeted data gathering.

              It just seems easier, that is all. Your attitude is both shocking and depressing.

              1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                FAIL

                Re: I Blame Your Parents Re: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information.....

                "....and they managed to keep us safe using genuine, old school trade-craft for years without the ability or requirement to scan all our communications....." So you didn't know that government-sanctioned eavesdropping has been going since almost directly after the telephone was invented? - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiretapping#History - Longer if you include censorship of telegrams.

                "....Your attitude is both shocking and depressing." Really? But I find the willingness with which you and your like-minded ilk proclaim your ignorance on the matter quite amusing! Yes, that does mean I am laughing at you.

            3. Marcus Aurelius
              Coat

              Re: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

              That's because of the work by the spooks, the armed services, and those a lot more informed than you.

              Ah, they have Top Men working ceaselessly

              TOP. MEN.

            4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

              "That's because of the work by the spooks, the armed services, and those a lot more informed than you."

              ...and yet it's a rare, slow, new days when the security service send out press releases telling us about all those "terrorist incidents" they claim to have stopped.

              The last four major European "incidents" were all carried out by people who were supposedly "on the radar" of the relevant security service.

              1. Monkeyman
                Big Brother

                I'm glad someone pointed that out, well said Mr Brown

                'The last four major European "incidents" were all carried out by people who were supposedly "on the radar" of the relevant security service.'

                Yes each awful killing is followed up with a loud demand for more powers to monitor the local population and a very quiet admission that the perpetrators were already known to the authorities...

            5. Looper
              FAIL

              Re: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

              Ah! GCHQ's Matt-the-TWAT-Bryant pokes his idiotic head above the parapet again.

              It must be justify-mass-spying-prevents-terrorism time again.

              1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                Happy

                Re: Loopy Re: JustWiz If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                "Ah! GCHQ's Matt-the-TWAT-Bryant pokes his idiotic head above the parapet again. It must be justify-mass-spying-prevents-terrorism time again." Once again it seems one of The Faithful just has to post, despite having zero ability to actually argue any point raised. Thanks, I found your shrieking hysterics quite amusing. Please do post again in the same vein, it's a quiet week so far and I could do with a good chuckle at your mindless and childish prattling.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

            "The hard fact is that the chance of a civilian located in the US being murdered as a result of terrorism is vanishingly small. Statistically you are 5 times more likely to be struck by lighting than killed by a terrorist"

            And how more likely to be killed by a trigger happy American?

            "you REALLY want to save lives, why aren't you advocating thatt something be done about gunhappy cops, or better yet, heart disease"

            Or gun control in general perhaps?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          "At some point you're going to have to accept that a certain number of deaths through terrorism are unacceptable and require a surrender of part of your inviolable shield of privacy. It seems like you haven't reached that moment yet. How many deaths a year? 50? 100? 1000?"

          When finally the US administration arrives that REALLY sees the potential for a totalitarian state made possible by your unquestioning, willing surrender to fear and propaganda, I hope you 'benefit' first.

        3. Carl W
          Big Brother

          Benjamin Franklin quote

          "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

          1. boltar Silver badge

            Re: Benjamin Franklin quote

            Hate to say it but that quote is naive bullshit and I do wish people would stop parroting it as if its a bookend to any argument about rights. We ALL give up some liberty for safety. If we didn't we'd have whats known as anarchy where everyone can do what they damn well please. The only question is where do you draw the line.

            Eg: Am I happy with the police being allowed to look at my data IF they have a warrant? Yes. Without? No.

            Unfortunately in these sorts of arguments people immediately polarise to either extremes both of which are absurd as each other.

        4. Paul Crawford Silver badge

          Re:@Tapeador

          Well here in the UK we have a little short of 3000 deaths per year due to cars & road transport, should we all surrender the freedom and opportunity that road transport has given us for the last century us for that?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Tapeador

            ...That is already happening. The health and safety lot are now enforcing 20mph zones across large swathes of London, and making it ever harder to drive anywhere, no matter how insane the public transport alternative.

            1. Synonymous Howard

              Re: Tapeador

              So what is the average actually speed in London then? More or less than 20mph?

              For answer turn to page 14 of https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/london-streets-performance-report-q1-2012-13.pdf [PDF]

              So actually ENFORCING a 20mph should make your journey go quicker 8-)

          2. boltar Silver badge

            Re: Tapeador

            "Well here in the UK we have a little short of 3000 deaths per year due to cars & road transport, should we all surrender the freedom and opportunity that road transport has given us for the last century us for that?"

            Well its slowly happening with speedbumps, Think-of-the-Children 20mph zones popping up everywhere and bus only roads. It wouldn't surprise me if in a few decades we're back to cars being limited to 4mph with a man with a red flag walking in front.

          3. Richard Jones 1
            Flame

            Re: Tapeador

            No, but the blithering idiots who go out thoughtlessly to maim and kill must surrender their 'right' to drive like a moron. I had one this morning,

            I was driving through the sleepy town's main road with cars pulling out and pedestrians crossing, the moron behind appeared to be conducting a live music display, apparently urging me to go faster than 25mph in a 30 limit area, why?

            Was it so he could exercise his right to wear out his brakes and waste more fuel?

            What society asks is that those who set out to maim and kill should surrender their supposed 'right' to get away with the behaviour that kills,perhaps that is why we have number plates on cars? Or, are you against them as well?

          4. Dr Andrew A. Adams
            Big Brother

            Re: Tapeador

            Whenever there is even a planned terrorist attack (laughable liquid bomb plot, anyone?) the home secretary of the day usually goes on TV and says that the resulting disruption to air travel is a necessary and suitable price to pay for "saving even one life". There is very good evidence that making 20 MPH the speed limit in urban areas, 40mph on all other roads than motorways and 50mph on motorways would reduce road traffic accident deaths by a large percentage (speed really does kill, every mph raises the risk). But, despite the fact that it would save many lives, no government will take the hit of annoying the motoring lobby to save these lives.

        5. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          This:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks

          and this:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing

          happened less than eight miles from where I live.

          Am I willing to trade my freedom and privacy for security from that? Hell no.

          There is no acceptable number for loss of life but as human beings, we accept a level of risk in our everyday lives and as others have already mentioned, your chances of even seeing the aftermath of a terrorist incident, let alone being injured in one are vanishingly small.

          I now live in a society where I can be arrested for having the knowledge I gained from chemistry, physics and biology books I read at secondary school, should we hunt down and arrest all the scientists or at least surveil them 24x7 in case they decide to make something that goes bang or makes people die of some back bedroom cultivated superbug?

          1. x 7

            Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

            "I now live in a society where I can be arrested for having the knowledge I gained from chemistry, physics and biology books I read at secondary school, "

            Don't be daft, no you can't- unless "The Anarchists Cookbook" was on your reading list.

            1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
              Happy

              Re: x 7 Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

              "....no you can't- unless "The Anarchists Cookbook" was on your reading list." Well, TBH, in my day we actually made minute quantities of nitroglycerine in Chem class (and discussed how to make gunpowder)!

              1. x 7

                Re: x 7 If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

                Nitroglycerine......

                easy on a small scale, but once you get beyond a few grammes the probability of blowing yourself up during manufacture means you're unlikely to succeed as a terrorist. If you tried to make it the authorities would probably sit back and let you get on with it - and piss themselves laughing at the eventual accidental suicide.

        6. Florida1920 Silver badge

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          At some point you're going to have to accept that a certain number of deaths through terrorism are unacceptable and require a surrender of part of your inviolable shield of privacy.

          If the Feds had one example of where blanket surveillance of American telephone and Internet activity interdicted a terrorist attack they'd be proclaiming it from the roof of the Capitol.

          Some day soon the seas are going to rise, the crops are going to fail and we're going to run out of oil and water. Already, massive migrations are starting from dessicated Africa. How long will Californians sit still for no water? American police departments have better military equipment than many nations. Why? What's happening across the Middle East, Thailand, Hong Kong ... will eventually happen in Western countries, once citizens finally realize they've been screwed by their governments. Western governments are preparing themselves for the social upheavals they know are coming. Even the mighty Fox "News" won't be able to stem the tide. It's cheaper to build a data warehouse than tell your political contributors to stop dumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

          1. Anonymous Blowhard

            Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

            "Some day soon the seas are going to rise, the crops are going to fail and we're going to run out of oil and water"

            I don't think you'll be running out of water; but it might be a bit salty and up to your ankles...

        7. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          "At some point you're going to have to accept that a certain number of deaths through terrorism are unacceptable and require a surrender of part of your inviolable shield of privacy. It seems like you haven't reached that moment yet. How many deaths a year?"

          7 billion and change is about right.

          It's better we die on our feet than live on our knees.

        8. Bernard M. Orwell Silver badge

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          "At some point you're going to have to accept that a certain number of deaths through terrorism are unacceptable and require a surrender of part of your inviolable shield of privacy."

          It won't stop the terrorists, will it? They'll keep coming regardless, won't they?

          Well, in light of that, you can die on your knees if you want to. I'll face it standing, thanks very much.

        9. TonyJ Silver badge

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          Eadon...is that you?

        10. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          It is a good question.

          How many deaths are acceptable to protect freedom and democracy before we should just give up?

          I'd say we start at an average of several hundred a day over a few years. The UK lost about 500,000 in WWII and I think we all agree those deaths were not wasted. All countries have more people today but at the same time todays generation are more willing to give up, so past numbers may be close.

          A follow up question should be how we are fighting terrorism. The permanent nature of the terror war, and it's increasing expansion without clear objectives should have people asking why we are in this war and better yet, exactly who are the enemies?

          1. 's water music Silver badge

            Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

            why we are in this war and better yet, exactly who are the enemies?

            Silly, it's the Eastasians. Always has been.

        11. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Thumb Down

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          "At some point you're going to have to accept that a certain number of deaths through terrorism are unacceptable and require a surrender of part of your inviolable shield of privacy. It seems like you haven't reached that moment yet. How many deaths a year? 50? 100? 1000?"

          Maybe when terrorism deaths reach parity with road accident deaths it might be time to start thinking seriously about it.

        12. David Glasgow

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          Well as I live and breathe.... Edna Welthorpe!

        13. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: If only the NSA protected MY information with such zeal.

          @Tapeador

          Nicely trolled.

          Why dont you tell us how many deaths you think are acceptable before something gets "done" about a problem?

      3. Marketing Hack Silver badge

        Re: Too soon

        They go after your info like it was two cross-dressers driving an Explorer!

        1. Marketing Hack Silver badge
          Go

          Re: Too soon

          "How many deaths a year? 50? 100? 1000? "

          You know what? I'm fine with this kind of risk. It may sound corny, but our forefathers actually DID fight and really WERE willing to put their lives on the line for the freedoms that we are supposed to enjoy and stand for. If it pleases you, I'll be happy to invoke placenames like Lexington and Concord, Valley Forge, Gettysburg, the Argonne, Bataan, Normandy and the Chosin Reservoir, where Americans died to hand us something that was genuinely unique in the history of mankind

          I don't mind risking my life to preserve these ideals that are really the only thing that makes America special. I don't mind taking a larger-than-normal risk to preserve these freedoms. We're the world's first ideologically-founded nation, the originator of a new model of nation-building compared to the traditional ethnically founded nation states or ethnicity-oppressing empires that came before us. Ultimately, if Americans become so cowed by the off chance that they will get killed in an extremist car bombing that we are willing to surrender our freedoms in return for a little more safety, then the nation loses its identity and becomes like France without the French or China without Chinese. At that point we are essentially a continent-sized gated community for relatively rich humans.

          1. Mark 85 Silver badge

            Re: Too soon

            "At that point we are essentially a continent-sized gated community for relatively rich humans."

            Sadly, many Americans are ready for that to happen. They will trade everything for the security of getting their hands on the latest bling, making the latest FB post, and watching inane TV programming. It probably goes back to the 60's war protesting and "thinking of the children"...

            They'll give (not sell) their souls for a "happy moment" and not want to think of what's out there in the real world or in even next door. The <fill in LEA of choice> will protect us they scream. They want it all but aren't willing to stand for anything.

            Personally, I'd rather die standing for what I believe in and being able to taste freedom of thought then cowering in the corner waiting for some "agency" to protect me. Or waiting on (as some fruitcakes have said) 'the inate goodness in people not to do evil".

            I'm not perfect, I don't own a gun. I'm considered a "senior citizen" but I do what I want (without breaking laws) and as long as agencies and people don't stick their uninvited noses in what I do, I'm happy because I don't stick my nose in their business. In the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness, I don't need some agency watching me make sure that if I swing my arm, I won't smack you in the nose.

            If you believe that trading everything (and give some serious thought to the concept of "everything" because that's what's at stake) for security and want to live an a world of fear.... feel free and downvote away...

            1. Anonymous Blowhard

              Re: Too soon

              "It probably goes back to the 60's war protesting"

              I thought the anti-war protesters were the ones standing up for freedom? The companies and agencies who are promoting and profiteering from "The War Against Terror", and think that Americans will be safer if they shut up and do as they're told, are no better than those who waged the various wars against communism; and the communist governments were beaten because their citizens wanted "the latest bling, making the latest FB post, and watching inane TV programming".

          2. Frank Bough

            Re: Too soon

            Those Aboriginal Americans just died of boredom, I suppose?

            1. werdsmith Silver badge

              Re: Too soon

              Yes, unlike those ethnicity oppressing imperials, USA was not involved in the wiping out, clearance and relocation of aboriginal Americans. There was no trail of tears ever.

              And there was no slavery in its history. Nor segregation, no need for any heroic civil rights movements.

              Ahhh, Marketing Hack. That explains everything.

              1. Directive 10-289

                Re: Too soon

                Most of the aboriginal Americans were wiped out by imperial Europeans. The USA just did a little mopping up in the 19th century.

                As for slavery, that was another European cultural gift that left a legacy with which this country still struggles.

                1. Dan Paul

                  Re: Too soon @Directive 10-289

                  I too tire of the Apologists and the Nannies here who blame present day people for the ills of their ancestors. We need to stop living in the past and move on. People need to stop playing the role of the poor "Victim" and take responsibility for their own actions in the present.

                  The Slavery industry was created by Europeans and brought here to the US and the Caribean Islands by their ships. Once the system was in place, there was no reasonable way to walk away from it without throwing away the benefit of cheap cotton and tobacco. The fact that Europe helped bankroll the Confederacy during the civil war is all the proof needed to put the blame back where it belongs.

                  1. lucki bstard

                    Re: Too soon @Directive 10-289

                    Out of curiosity Dan, have you ever readup on the history of Liberia?? You might want to do so, Essentially the result is that ignorance and bigotry is not dependent on skin colour.

                    The black humour part of the debate is that slavery is still active in North/South Sudan and the focus in the US is on historic slavery not helping the abolition of slavery that is still occurring today in Africa.

                    I think the vernacular is ' Sod you Jack I'm inboard'

                  2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                    Re: Too soon @Directive 10-289

                    "The fact that Europe helped bankroll the Confederacy during the civil war is all the proof needed to put the blame back where it belongs."

                    FWIW, the "erurope" of the time wasn't just politically separate countries but they were often at war with each other so it's a bit disingenuous to lump all of "europe" with one big portion of blame.

                  3. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                    Stop

                    Re: Dan Paul Re: Too soon @Directive 10-289

                    "I too tire of the Apologists and the Nannies here who blame present day people for the ills of their ancestors. We need to stop living in the past and move on. People need to stop playing the role of the poor "Victim" and take responsibility for their own actions in the present......" Agreed.

                    "......The Slavery industry was created by Europeans....." Er, no. The slave industry was around long before the modern countries in Europe evolved, and even the European introduction of slaves into the Americas was built on the massive Arab and African slave industries.

                    "......The fact that Europe helped bankroll the Confederacy during the civil war is all the proof needed to put the blame back where it belongs." Bollocks. The English largely put an end to slavery and enforced that on the rest of the World through the Royal Navy ( http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_155.html, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Trade_Act_1807 and http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_Abolition_Act_1833) long before the U.S. Civil War.

                  4. This post has been deleted by its author

                2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                  FAIL

                  Re: Directive 10-289 Re: Too soon

                  ".....As for slavery, that was another European cultural gift....." Please fill in the holes in your education - slavery was common amongst both North and South American tribes long before the Europeans arrived:

                  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

                  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_slavery

                  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totonac_people#Geography_and_lifestyle

            2. This post has been deleted by its author

          3. Uffish

            Re: We're the world's first ...

            Bravo for the sentiment (and ideals), welcome to the club, we'll forgive you for the staggering ignorance about the rest of the world.

  2. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge
    Pint

    Lost

    It was a couple of Secret Service agents returning from a weekend of hard partying who took a wrong turn looking for the White House.

    1. Christoph Silver badge

      Re: Lost

      Men dressed as women, it must be a couple of FBI agents.

      1. Haku

        Re: Men dressed as women, it must be a couple of FBI agents.

        Or Adam Sandler is making another movie.

        1. Jagged

          Re: Men dressed as women, it must be a couple of FBI agents.

          "Or Adam Sandler is making another movie."

          - I hope they shot the right one.

          Bad taste? :(

  3. Me19713
    Thumb Up

    NSA Police

    They should replace the Secret Service uniformed police at the White House with NSA Police. At least they show up to work sober and shoot straight!

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Rebecca

    maybe they were trying to protest the closure of an old right of way?

  5. Daniel von Asmuth Bronze badge
    Paris Hilton

    Gender equality now!

    Why does it have to be a couple of men dressed as women? It's about time women get the right to storm agencies.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Gender equality now!

      *does jazz hands of appreciation*

    2. wayne 8

      Re: Gender equality now!

      A woman already did. Tried to crash the White House gate. They pursued her with a frantic car chase through DC until they could execute her on the spot. She was also a member of a minority. She was double equal.

  6. GBE

    _THAT_ was the plan?

    Dress up like women, pack up some drugs and guns, and ram a security gate at the NSA.

    WTF did they think they were going to accomplish if they got past the gate, and in what sort of delusion does that sound like a good plan to do it?

    1. Mage Silver badge
      Alien

      Re: _THAT_ was the plan?

      Well, we have only the NSA's word for it?

      Perhaps it was aliens trying to rescue a crew member.

      1. GBE

        Re: _THAT_ was the plan?

        > Perhaps it was aliens trying to rescue a crew member.

        That's just silly. Everybody knows it's the CIA not the NSA that has the aliens locked up, and they're nowhere near Ft. Meade.

        1. Marketing Hack Silver badge

          Re: _THAT_ was the plan?

          Pfft--DARPA has all the aliens working for them at Area 51.

          1. John Tserkezis

            Re: _THAT_ was the plan?

            "Pfft--DARPA has all the aliens working for them at Area 51."

            Do the aliens have the same worker rights and minium wage rights as other Americans?

            No wonder they want to get on their spacecraft and leave.

    2. Florida1920 Silver badge

      Re: _THAT_ was the plan?

      WTF did they think they were going to accomplish if they got past the gate, and in what sort of delusion does that sound like a good plan to do it?

      They don't know. They were very drunk at the time.

      1. Robert Helpmann?? Silver badge
        Childcatcher

        Re: _THAT_ was the plan?

        They were very drunk at the time.

        Drunk? Then what were the drugs for? The after party?

    3. breakfast
      Black Helicopters

      Re: _THAT_ was the plan?

      The NSA's experimental crazy-beacon is showing itself to be quite effective in early tests.

  7. Richard Jones 1
    WTF?

    Confused a DragNet with a Drag Party?

    Was it just one of those moments that some people have getting confused about where they want to go, what they feel and what they want to do. Perhaps they were just a couple of drag artists who misunderstood what was going on?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Confused a DragNet with a Drag Party?

      Perhaps. A review of past similar cases have shown that does occur but have never been reported by the agencies involved as anything other than an attack or failure to follow orders.

      Many such sites funnel traffic into the security area and leave no exits within site of the gates so mistakes happen all the time. Most just stop and explain.

      it appears that stopping and explaining was not an option in this case.

      Or maybe they were one of those groups that figure stopping for police is not risk free and may as well go out fighting.

      Who knows, like the White House incident it is going to take time to get more information.

  8. x 7

    They were Bradley (or is it now Wendy?) Manning's chums trying to protest his innocence.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      More likely,

      It is only drag queens and drug dealers who feel any real need to resist unwarranted state snooping....

      or something like that....

    2. Greg J Preece

      *Chelsea

      *her

      Don't be a dick.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        "Chelsea"

        That's fair enough. Anyone can choose a name of their choice to be known as.

        "*her"

        Without an operation, that's high;y debatable, just not here.

        "Don't be a dick."

        And therein lies the problem.

        Chelsea still has one so is biologically male but requests that people treat said male as a female.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Don't be a dick

          "Chelsea still has one so is biologically male but requests that people treat said male as a female."

          Everybody knows that (especially Chelsea). Since there is no practical way that matters to you unless you're a prison doctor, or Chelsea's sexual partner, (which I doubt) pointing it out makes you kind of a dick, doesn't it?

          It's just a question of courtesy.

        2. x 7

          anyone else noted how closely that photo of Bradley Manning in his Chelsea wig resembles Chelsea Clinton?

          I think theres something we're not being told.....Is Manning really Bill Clinton's love child? Was Bill the real absent father? Or is Bradley really Chelsea Clinton????????

          I think we should be informed!!!!!!!

        3. sed gawk

          can you not allow another human being the respect of choosing their own path through life?

          She wishes to be called "Chelsea", so call her by her chosen name.

          Frankly, good luck to her and all who feel the need to change their life in the name of freedom, be it gender or freedom of conscience.

          Oh, and try to expand your horizons, plumbing doesn't make a person, despite your snide remarks at someone doing a stretch in likely horrible conditions to preserve *your* freedom.

          1. x 7

            Manning did nothing to preserve my -or your - freedom; what he did was a security breach which increases the level of threat to us all.

            In view of that in my view he/she/it deserves no respect - or compassion - at all. If the conditions are "horrible" then good, they are deserved.

            1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
              Coat

              "Why do you want to be a woman Stan?"

        4. Greg J Preece

          Chelsea still has one so is biologically male but requests that people treat said male as a female.

          And how much pain will it cause you to honour the request? If she identifies as female, that's good enough for me. My trans cousin hasn't been able to get her op yet because, aside from the costs involved, there's a whole shitload of barriers, waiting periods and assessments put in place by the rest of us because there's still a stigma around the whole thing. Chelsea might be in the same place, biologically male and unable to do anything about it, so why not just let her be whatever she wants to be?

          I.e. don't be a dick.

          1. x 7

            " there's a whole shitload of barriers, waiting periods and assessments put in place by the rest of us because there's still a stigma around the whole thing. "

            No.......you're wrong. Those barriers are there to stop some naive gullible fool from going off half-cocked and carrying out an irreversible process when his or her mind is screwed up. Nothing to do with stigma. Its to do with protecting the vulnerable from self-harm.

            As for Manning - he deserves every bit of abuse heading his way. He's in the same category as Prime / Philby / Blunt / Roseberg(s) / Maclean. It just a pity that so many of those escaped

            1. Greg J Preece

              No.......you're wrong. Those barriers are there to stop some naive gullible fool from going off half-cocked and carrying out an irreversible process when his or her mind is screwed up. Nothing to do with stigma. Its to do with protecting the vulnerable from self-harm.

              Naive? Gullible? Are you implying it's easy to persuade someone to have their penis removed?

              I'm not certain you're familiar with just how many checks and balances we're talking about here. I wouldn't mind some if they were reasonable, but it can take timescales on the order of years, not months, just to get hormone therapy, never mind surgical adjustment.

              1. x 7

                " it can take timescales on the order of years"

                Good. That seems about how it should be. Or even longer. In the UK I'd suggest it shouldn't happen at all - or at least not on the NHS. In an environment where most NHS trusts are close to bankruptcy, spending money so a chap can desex himself because he doesn't want to be a man seems like a fundamental waste of resources. I presume Manning will be expecting the USA taxpayer to fund his treatment via the military budget? If so he needs a fast dose of reality.

                Manning is a spy. A spy who breached operational security and put lives at risk. He should have been thrown in a hole and left to rot. All this fake sentimental guff about "you have to be nice to him because he's a shy mentally ill ladyboy" is bollox designed to try to get him off the hook and con people into feeling sorry for him

    3. Bleu

      I like that. How feminine an image did Brad ever manage?

      Not much. Sure, with the army duties, not much time, but most of that seems to have been expended on the big dump to wikileaks, with which I agree 100% that it was the right thing to do.

      I am also surprised that infantry PFC's are 'intelligence officers' in the US system of now.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Terrorists - definately terrorists

    What with the patriot act and all, this must at least give a valid reason for beginning to bomb some at least one third world country that has either Oil, Heroin or some commodity that can be carefully sold/controlled disposed of .

    Hey, I digress, Americans wouldn't do that now or would they ?

    1. Bleu

      Re: Terrorists - definately terrorists

      You can always drive an aeroplane, like the famous German jerk, but the Indian ocean Boeing seems to have been the same.

      At least they know where the Germanwings idiot killed many people.

      They should be checking the Indian Ocean garbage gyre for MH370, some flotsam from the flight should be there by now.

      I have little doubt that it was somewhat similar to the germanwings murder, lack of the flight recorder is the only factor protecting the investigators from the screams of the doomed.

  10. 404 Silver badge

    A minivan...

    A minivan?

    Difficult to jump a curb, much less ram a gate... dressing as women does not influence driving style...

    smh...

    1. GBE

      Re: A minivan...

      Huh?

      It wasn't a minivan. It was a Ford Explorer. Until a few years ago that was a station wagon (aka estate wagon) style body on a mid-size Ford truck frame. It's sort of like a range rover. Fairly large wheels and good ground-clearance. I think the past few years they've switched to a unibody design with a lower CoG (so it wont' be quite as likely to flip over), but it is still more "truck-like" than the traditional station wagon.

      Though I still don't think planning and rational forethought were the strong-points of the two guys involved...

      1. GBE

        Re: A minivan...

        > It wasn't a minivan. It was a Ford Explorer.

        Latest stories say it was a Ford Escape (Kuga in the UK?): a smaller, unibody "crossover" SUV. Still not what we call a "minivan" in the US, but that maybe different in the UK.

        1. 404 Silver badge

          Re: A minivan...

          Depends on era you were raised in...

          Body-on-frame construction= truck SUV 4x4 in my mind. Uni-body construction is lightweight and needs bracing to be entirely useful to me. They crack, had a Jeep Cherokee split on the passenger side tunnel between the doors, not something to ramming with. Point is: Why not use a big Dodge 4x4 with a Cummins diesel? Wouldn't get stuck until the building on the *other* side of the NSA*. An Escape is not suitable for purpose.

          I know what an Explorer is, bought my wife a 99 XLT for tooling around the mountain ;)

          We are talking about the little green trashcan in the middle of the picture, correct?

          *I capitalized the 'T" in my head right there. That means something... like in The Boogeyman. hmm. There is a distinct possibility I need to run down to the store for some tin foil. Shit.

          1. x 7

            Re: A minivan...

            to anyone in the UK, these are minivans

            https://www.google.co.uk/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&q=morris+minivan&revid=216743522&sa=X&ei=T3saVfO7M9fiaomkgNgL&ved=0CCgQ1QIoAg

      2. wayne 8

        Re: planning and rational forethought

        SInce when have any of the "terrorist" plots on US soil ever shown "planning and rational forethought".

        Every one of the "terrorist" plots exposed by the FBI, has been mainly the work of an informant, coerced by the FBI, grooming, encouraging, and supplying cash, arms, whatever, to some patsy to be the fall guy.

        Rational people don't fall for it.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All's well that ends well

    These two won't be attacking anyone again, any time soon.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You know that they were white because the NSA said it wasn't terrorism.

    1. channel extended
      Happy

      Not terrorism!

      This was a severe case of Bubba-ism. You know, two drunk, backwoods, inbred, idiots going "You know what would be funny?"

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re. "About 11,000 troops guard nearly 30,000 civilian employees"

    Wow - that's a way higher ratio of guards to inmates / workers than most prisons or concentration camps. Just to be sure there wont be any more Snowdens.

  14. DropBear Silver badge
    Trollface

    All these comments and yet no obligatory "One does not simply walk into Mordor"...? I'm impressed! *sigh* They grow up so fast...

    1. Marketing Hack Silver badge
      Trollface

      "One does not simply walk into Mordor. However, my Explorer has the optional off-road package, with leather seats and extra cup-holders!"

      (The salesman at the dealership also promised me that the dealership clearcoat could "stop a bullet"!)

  15. Mephistro Silver badge
    Devil

    Perhaps it was just...

    ... two guys that had watched 'Thelma & Louise" too many times.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's All Folks!

    I think we can cue the Looney Tunes theme song now.

    Cross-dressing coke-heads launch unforeseen suicide attack on world's largest surveillance agency, who apparently has not forgotten that when push comes to shove, live rounds are more effective than cyberpackets - who knew?

    Meanwhile across the pond, head of MI6 is declaring cryptography to be the most dangerous thing in the world, while the ME gets ready to go nuclear in a conflagration that none of the intelligence agencies foresaw even 6 months ago.

    GitHub is under legal attack by the feds to give up log data to a startup launching its own cyber-vendetta, while at the same time it is under sustained state-sponsored attack that is supposed to be mitigated by the same feds. We have some guy named Ulbricht facing life in jail for running an experiment in free market dynamics, but now it turns out maybe he's not the real DPR and he had a mole inside the DEA who has now been busted running his own bitcoin-extortion scheme.. so the real DPR might be still at large.. let's see, did I miss anything?

    I think the world has a case of the Mondays..

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That's All Folks!

      "launch unforeseen suicide attack on world's largest surveillance agency"

      Maybe they remember how well the pentagon was covered? airliner reportedly flies into the side and they only got one fuzzy cctv frame out of all that top line hardware.

  17. Long John Brass Silver badge

    Blaming it on the SatNav in ... 3, 2, 1

    Drugs, guns & cross dressing .... musta been one hellova party :)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Blaming it on the SatNav in ... 3, 2, 1

      "Siri, where can we get some Mead around here?"

    2. Me19713

      Re: Blaming it on the SatNav in ... 3, 2, 1

      Maybe they got into some of that sh*t up the road at Edgewood Arsenal. :-)

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A new sport - Base Crashing

    It's quite fun! I've tried it! In a bus!

    1. Greg J Preece

      Re: A new sport - Base Crashing

      Well it worked in Just Cause 2...

  19. Roj Blake Silver badge

    "Not Related to Terrorism"

    Translation: they were white.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I see the IT angle

    Explorer crashed due to Windows being broken.

  21. Mr. Anonymous Coward ... thank you!

    Kerfuffle?

    I'm not sure what the exact definition of kerfuffle is, and I'm too lazy to look it up because it'll take three or four clicks. But, I'm pretty sure that this would probably be considered a little more serious than a kerfuffle.

    1. DasWezel
      Trollface

      Re: Kerfuffle?

      More of a fracas if you ask me.

      1. Owain 1

        Re: Kerfuffle?

        a "rumpus" perhaps.

  22. Desidero

    ""The shooting scene is contained and we do not believe it is related to terrorism" - WTF? I suppose it's only "terrorism" if brown-skinned prayer-rug people are involved? Someone call Merriam & Webster, got an update to make.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Risk

    I was reading about being hung, drawn and quartered yesterday (as you do...), and it struck me: what can have been going on in the heads of people to even think of getting involved in anything which might lead to such a grisly end?

    I guess that they might just have been too stupid to realise, or maybe too cocksure to think they'd get caught.

    Or maybe there were people who believed whatever they were doing was worth risking their lives for?

    We don't have many of them left these days...

    1. Mark 85 Silver badge

      Re: Risk

      Or maybe there were people who believed whatever they were doing was worth risking their lives for?

      We don't have many of them left these days...

      Actually we do. There's several groups in the sandy lands who embrace the possibility.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    NSA Police?

    Last I saw, the checkpoint is guarded by armed marines.

  25. Magnus_Pym

    Tinfoil helmet time

    Obviously they were two guys considered 'no longer useful' by the CIA so they engineered the most preposterous way for them to be die at the hands of a rival agency to stop people looking too closely for the real reasons and the real culprits.

  26. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

    Maybe these guys were desperate for an award

    Darwin award, that is.

    One at least deserves a nomination now

  27. This post has been deleted by its author

  28. tekHedd

    Not Terrorism?

    "we do not believe it is related to terrorism" Who is this person? Where is the *real* NSA spokesperson?

  29. Bleu

    The Graun needs to get onto the relative victomology of this.

    After they do, they will announce that this murder was all fine and alright.

    Watch tomorrow's graun to see me proven to be correct.

  30. AceRimmer1980
    WTF?

    10 seconds

    to trans mission..

  31. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    Happy

    First thought when this story broke?

    "Crap, Mark Thomas has finally gone too far!"

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Damn...

    Well, that's Hangover 5 cancelled then.

    Did the monkey in the back seat get away....?

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