Just for the record: My iPhone 6+ still working fine
If that helps anyone.
In less-than-pleasing news for Microsoft, a massive thread of Windows Phone moans is growing on its forums. Back in September 2014, Microsoft started rolling out Windows Phone update 8.1, with significant new features including the Cortana digital assistant and Word Flow keyboard. A nice update, but not for a subset of …
While we are talking about irrelevant details my Nokia 6230i is in fine fettle and never has any bother with updates or walled gardens either. Mind you the battery only lasts for about three days between charges, a slight drop from a the week or so that it once lasted; but hey it works after nearly 8 years.
I don't own a Windows phone yet I would be a dick if I was to post a comment that said...
"Tough shit, that's what one gets for using Windows"
"Whaddya expect Windows update often breaks desktop and server OS's too"
"This is Microsoft it's par for the course"
Even if it is what I think.
I don't use an Apple device either for the same reason I don't own a Windows phone... And it has nothing to do with the reliability of updates. I like to control my devices and know what they are doing when I am not looking.
Now Android (Google Phone OS) is far from perfect but having a rooted device means I am the administrator of said device, not some multinational corporation shepherd that cares little for its sheep.
"Now Android (Google Phone OS) is far from perfect but having a rooted device means I am the administrator of said device, not some multinational corporation shepherd that cares little for its sheep."
For the vast majority of iPhone users, rooting their device never comes to mind. They just like the security and reliabililty iOS offers.
So, for people like you Android is a great choice.
There is no need to talk down to millions of iPhone users who couldn't care less about all that technical mumbo-jumbo.
@ the O.P.: Wow...
An article about a problem with Windows Phone, and you've managed to get someone who routinely comments against stories of this nature about how this sort of thing is symptomatic of Microsoft's imminent downfall to instead post about a fault in your handset of choice.
I can understand why you post as an AC!
If there's any phone which i've heard no end of whining about battery life being dismal, phone running really slow to the point of being unusable it's the iPhone.
Not forgetting the first iOS recall was fairly recently. An update to iOS caused many customers to lose mobile connectivity completely.
So Apple stuff doesn't "just work". Maybe back when Jobs was around to fire the people responsible for producing shitty code, Cook probably gives them a hug and says "never mind".
Apple are dealing with that age old problem of technical knowledge required to use a device, versus technical knowledge acquired.
In the old days we would look to increase the later, rather than reduce the former as that often leads to smugness and ignorance.
Might start putting on my CV "never uses Apple devices and understands they have limitations", obviously won't get picked up by HR but just may catch the eye of some engineer.
My Lumia 1020 was rock solid on the developer preview. The USB charger stopped working, so got a replacement under warranty. Turning on the new one upgraded it to the official supported release. Now reboots multiple times per day. Bluetooth and wifi both drop for no reason.
Annoying the the developer preview was rock solid
I'm not getting Denim on developer preview, so I'm reseting at the moment... Gulp.
It has been rock solid so far. My only complaint is the p*** poor implementation of the Audible player on Windows Phone. It has a random playback feature, which means when you plug in earphones or turn on bluetooth playback it seems to randomly select a book from your collection! It seems to think, if I am 20 hours into Lord of the Rings, I might like to start a new book! Gah!
I've been on to the Audible team several times and they say they can't find the issue, but it seems to be a common issue on their WP client...
So I guess if the developer preview was rock solid and the release is not...it could very well be an issue with something your carrier has decided to include. As a stateside Verizon customer I can attest to my carrier holding up the 8.1 and now Denim party for nearly a year while the developer previews ran just fine on their phones. My Icon just YESTERDAY received it's official 8.1/Denim upgrade and while it appears to be fine thus far, if something starts hanging, I'm gonna point the finger at Verizon.
I had a look at the "massive thread". There are over 700 posts on it and that's impressive. What's rather less impressive is that right at the top there's a button you can press to indicate that you too have this problem and want it solved. It also shows a counter of how many people have the problem.
Now, I know that will come as heartbreaking news to that AC who always asks how all four Windows Phone users will react to any Windows Phone article the Reg decides to run but he's a prick so let's concentrate on the actual number. Thanks for the downvote, AC!
The thread may contain other posters who did not click the button but I removed all posts from the OP and that took it down to 644 - he's certainly been posting a lot. I then removed all posts from MS staffers (they are clearly identified) and got the total down to 481. At a rough estimate, about half the remaining posts are from people trying to be helpful so let's say we're at 250, being generous.
So the total is somewhere between 223 and 250.
Obviously, this issue may affect many more people than just those posting in this single forum thread so I took a quick shufti at windowscentral.com (previously wpcentral.com) where I did find this (related - http://www.windowscentral.com/struggling-lumia-925-lumia-1020-freezes-microsoft-will-soon-release-fix) and scrolling through the comments indicates that maybe 1/10 of their commentards have experienced the issue although this may overlap with the reported numbers on the official forum. The thread s 420 comments but many are multiple posts by the same commentards.
So what we know for sure is that it affects some 1020s but by no means all - wpcentral indicates less than a quarter of 1020 owners commenting experience the bug) and some 925s but those are rarer so it's much harder to get an idea of the scale.
None of the other x20 series seem to be affected and none of the newer x30 and x35 series.
So, about that WINDOWS PHONE DOOMED THERE IS A BUG MS DON'T CARE ALL THEIR USERS ARE LEAVING IN DROVES article....
Not so much, really.
Well apparently they each own somewhere between 55 and 63 Lumia 1020s, but they are all intermittently frozen due to the update so it may take them a while to find something they can reply on.
We all know that there are no other handset models at all and never were except for WP7 because that makes MS looks bad and nobody else in the world owns a Windows Phone and everyone who says they do is a M$ shill.
Is that the answer you were looking for?
Not really, even from your very pro-windows standpoint that you take here on el Reg, you should be able to take away that this is a significant problem, that it affects many users (no-one can say for sure and a forum is not really an effective statistic), Microsoft know it is a problem and yet no official response other that one person who isn't even art of the Lumia team decided to respond.
That is the issue, not that WIndows Phone is doomed (that would be a different argument).
It doesn't take much just to keep people updated every couple of weeks if they are proactively working on a fix.
It's one of the biggest issues on crowdfunding sites, when the creators don't give any updates when they hit delays and just bury their head in the sand. The forumites get angrier and angrier. A simple update normally smoothes things over.
Not so much "pro-Windows" as "anti-FUD" usually. Windows has its place, just as linux does and even Apple has a place even if that place is as far away from me as possible (I know, it's irrational, I just can't stand the whole scientology aspect of it).
I agree that it's an issue for those 1020 owners and I hope they get it fixed soon. The nature of an intermittent fault is that it's hard to diagnose, though, so the engineer in me is wary about blanket condemnations.
If there are in fact less than say, 1000 owners affected, it would probably be cheaper and better PR for Microsoft to simply offer each of them a new phone. How many there actually are, we can't really know - the point of my post was not to "prove" that it's a small problem, only to demonstrate that we do not have sufficient data to declare it a big problem.
I was a little surprised to see my own Microsoft forum comment pop up on El-Reg! However, to give you some context...
I have personally had a total of 4 1020's. 1 of those was a 32GB 1020 sent by Nokia UK's PR department. It worked perfectly (though I never used that device with WP8.1). On the strength of my experience with that phone, I invested in a Lumia 1020 64GB edition from O2 UK. It worked perfectly, so I took advantage of a deal & bagged another couple of 64GB 1020's for my parents....
All our phones then updated via the official firmware release from O2 UK. Thereafter, it has been a catalogue of hardware issues. I have personally had my 64GB edition replaced twice. This latest one freezes once a day (mainly when the phone is charged over night, & when Quiet Hours is switched on). It is the most stable of the 3x 64GB 1020's I have owned though, which is why I am holding on to it and IMPLORING Microsoft to actually fix the issue.
My mum's 1020 on the other hand is a hornet's nest of problems. As things stand at the moment, we can't use NFC, Bluetooth or WiFi on her phone. Glance screen, double tap to wake and super sensitive touch are also disabled to try and get some longevity out of the device. It will currently go for about 18 hours before freezing (which then requires a soft reset - which causes the device to forget the date and time!!).
The worst thing about this is my mum runs a charity out in West Africa. She uses her 1020 as her camera so she can email photos back etc and keep sponsors informed. As she isn't particularly proficient with technology, she has now taken to using her old Nokia candy bar phone & a Canon Ixus digital camera. The brilliant camera on the 1020 is completely wasted because we are stuck using this sh*t WP8.1 update which has turned her phone into an absolute lemon.
The most annoying thing.....all of our phones have now received the Denim update. It hasn't done anything to fix the problems we are encountering. More to the point, Denim brings almost nothing new to the table for us older flagship owners --- so WHY did Microsoft bother releasing it at all if it didn't fix the one big gripe so many of us do have!!
Also...this is far from isolated. 4 out of 5 WP8.1 1020's I (and my family) have owned have had persistent freezing issues. A myriad of other owners have the same problems on WPCentral, and as evidenced by El Reg, on Microsoft's own forums too...
I bought a 1020 (and a 800, 620, 820 & 920 before that) because it was a Nokia. I have since invested in Microsoft's ecosystem, and even have a 4 year licence for Office 365 Home. Their silence on this crippling issues is deafening.
Sort it out Microsoft you bunch of fools. You are haemorrhaging the most vocal advocates of your smartphone platform, which is a real shame...because it holds so much promise, & suits us in so many ways. But these 1020's are not fit for purpose in their current state.
(Thanks El Reg for giving us some exposure on this issue).
So, it's got a wonderful camera. Could it be that it fails to come out of the faux-sleep-mode that the
Nokia Systems Administration group
has added to the phone's, erm, capability set????
L'inquiring minds want to know..... (aye, cap'n, the engines cannae take it na more.... :) )
At my company we put customer issues first. If that means stopping some/all mainline development until we figure out the issue, solve it and deliver a fix to the client so be it. Existing customers come first.
Your existing customer base will be loyal and give great support references which in my industry counts for a lot. They are also much more forgiving of other foibles in the product.
Seems MS needs to adjust their priorities.
(Speaking as a Lumia 920 owner)
I need to stop posting on this thread but hey, it's lunchtime and I'm waiting for the new servers anyway.
Short answer is that they do.
First, download this.
Then install it.
Then back up your phone using the "Back up now" thing in Settings.
Run the program.
Plug in your phone.
Let the PC and program recognize your phone.
Select the WP8 option for your phone.
Overwrite your phone's OS with that selected version.
This only works for Nokias but the Lumia 1020 is a Nokia, so....
What's the betting that everyone who's having problems with the update are the people who think that it's a fantastic idea to continue using their phone while it updates...? and then whinges because it goes all black screened and veiny three times a day..
If it has Nokia on the casing the only way of getting a stable update is to leave the thing alone, in a darkened room, oriented towards the setting sun on the winter solstice and even then you've got a 30% chance at best... either that or hexing the damn thing so hard it will resist a nuclear attack - assuming you're into that sort of thing.. and wow betide if it has a Nokia Pop(out)-Port connector..
It isn't possible to update a Nokia Lumia whilst also doing other things with the device. The update is installed via a spinning cog on the startup screen....
Trust me, having owned numerous 1020's (and having been quoted on this article), this is an inherent software issue - not some user initiated glitch! It is a glitch that Microsoft have had a fix candidate for since November last year....so who knows why it wasn't incorporated into the Lumia Denim firmware that our families' phones have just received.
It's the best phone I've ever owned - with the most infuriating software glitch. I truly hope Microsoft gets a grip, because we (as flagship owners) are the proponents of this smartphone platform. & quite honestly, there is only so much patience we have when Microsoft are completely blanking us.
This is the scariest thing about the 'new' Microsoft. I originally chose Windows over other options (such as the Mac) because I don't want to "love" my OS, or my PC, or (especially) my phone. I just want it to be quietly, efficiently useful. But that's getting eroded away, as Microsoft keeps larding on idiotic 'user-friendly' features designed to make me love the frigging thing.
My betting is that for every one person who loves, loves, loves their WinPhone with an unholy passion, a whole bunch of people like me hate and detest the silly thing, for its gaudy non-standard UI, its lack of apps, its locked-down proprietary file system... and most of all, for its insipid, infuriating, perverted attempts to make them love it.
It's like having some degenerate stalker in your pocket.
I wonder if that's the road BB has now gone with the Passport - "F**k form, just make it function"?
I know quite a few people with them now that say it's ugly as sin but incredibly useful. And useful is more important.
I'm sure there is a decent market where people buy things because they are well made and work efficiently. Not because it's 0.2mm thinner than it's rival or 4g lighter or available in "sunset pink" or sponsored by feckin Bono.
My 1020 is fine as well, thankfully. Having said that my HTC One X always updated fine, as did my Nexus 7, iPad Air, Galaxy Tab 7+, etc... Amazingly I never seem to have any update issues...
(And yes, i do have access to all those devices, and more, but then i develop apps for all of them...)
@AC - 2 down, 2 to go :)
But I still want to be counted as one of the four. In fact I have an old HTC Windows phone on the desk as well (no sim, and a cracked screen, but use it as a now free HERE Maps/Drive GPS device/music player, etc). So, am I two owners. The beautiful other half owns a 720, so that's three Win Phones in the house - that's theoretically all four of us then. Who owns these mythical 1020s?
"suffered freezes at unpredictable intervals, ranging from every few days to several times a day"
Oh how I reminisce about the glory days when saving a Word document caused a complete reboot. Maybe spending more a bit more time and money on quality control and a little less on CEO driven marketing bullshit could be a good idea?
My ultra stable Win 7 machine has been retired from the internet and any type of upgrade for a couple of years now, joining the ancient but still great for music making Win 98 machine that's been reliable for 15 years. Alutomatic updates also disabled for all Android apps too after the last update turned the nice media player stuff into a horrible Google Play marketing tool and I had to turn to a third party app to restore my sanity.
I guess I've learned the hard way over the years to say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
The primary reason for 'updates' is to benefit the vendor, not the user. I stopped updating the first time Microsoft shoved an anti-feature (WGA) down my unsuspecting gullet. The trend has continued. Nowadays, I update very sparingly, and very cautiously... if at all.
My dyslexic daughter has a Lumia 630 - she finds the tile format and font preferable to all the other phones she's tried (which is why she has a Windows Phone rather than inheriting one of half a dozen reasonable Android phones we had in the house). The phone came with 8.1 and I asked Three when Denim was likely come to the phone. Their answer was fairly clear: "Not until we've fully tested it and found it to be stable. We wouldn't want to break your phone and lose you as a customer."
It is probably worth noting that her first venture into Windows Phone OS was actually a Lumia 520. It bricked itself after a week. We replaced it with a 530 (it was on special offer) - it refused to charge after two weeks. Our first 630 arrived sealed but with no battery to be found. So actually, although she's been very happy with this 630 pretty much since it came out - it is technically our 4th Lumia in less than a year...
"It is probably worth noting that her first venture into Windows Phone OS was actually a Lumia 520. It bricked itself after a week. We replaced it with a 530 (it was on special offer) - it refused to charge after two weeks. Our first 630 arrived sealed but with no battery to be found. So actually, although she's been very happy with this 630 pretty much since it came out - it is technically our 4th Lumia in less than a year..."
Wow...you must be either insanely brand loyal or then just stupid.
Not stupid, not brand loyal - just trying to do the best for my dyslexic daughter (you did read my whole post yes?), We went through a similar process when acquiring her school laptop - with that we ended up not only with Win 8 but the spacing, shape, colour and typeface of the physical keyboard was equally important to stop her brain bouncing the keys around and making it impossible to work on - we spent a lot of time in computer shops trying out different machines to get that one sorted...
In the past when Nokia was top dog you rarely ever saw a software update unless you had a high end phone and even then it was one or sometimes 2. Since Android and iOS the updates are coming out at least once per year with big additions and in the case of Android smaller releases adding a few things on the way. Unfortunately, Microsoft are stuck in their ways and their ways echo the old Nokia update methods.. You rarely see them, they're only available for certain models and if you run into problems you're screwed.
How hard is it for management to see that as the 3rd or 4th horse in the phone OS race they need to be improving a lot faster than the leaders? Almost everyone see that they're treating it like a pet project such as Apple TV yet Apple can afford to do that as it's a relatively (compared to smartphones) small market. Microsoft want to be leaders in the smartphone sector but they just don't take it seriously.
Get a grip, treat it as a massive priority at least on par with fixing Windows 8's reputation did to Windows, and get updates out FASTER. Remember those early stories of how, like Apple, Microsoft updates meant you'd get your new updates without delay? Oh that was such a good joke..It's almost as though someone has a bet going on just how badly they can screw up a division and the phone division is still just about ahead of Windows who tried their hardest with Windows 8.
Nokia only brought out occasional updates, that's true.
They were more likely to bring out a new handset - they rarely fixed things, but suggested you move on. That's why they didn't 'get' the iphone, and part of why they are now history (with a little help from microsoft)
So you think we should give them a pass because the competition is just as bad? Sorry, no can do. The standard we need to aspire to is "good" not "less bad."
There are companies that do better, by the way. Recall the recent instance of Gabe Newell responding personally to a tech-support question at Valve. That's more like the comparison we should be making.
If the fix doesn't come soon maybe win 10 will have it. Look at the bright side there are a number of android users that experience resource issues or odd behavior that requires a restart. IPhone users have their fair share of strange behavior too. My teens have the iPhone 5 and 6 and have power cycled as well.
The difference being...this isn't random behaviour. This is a complete and inexplicable freeze that happens at random. What's more....you can't just pull the battery and start the phone up. It requires a simultaneous key press of the power button + volume down. This is fine for me ... I am tech proficient...
However, for my mum whom I bought the phone for, these things are unnecessary complications that confuse her (and in the case of her last trip to her charity in W.Africa, left her with a dead phone until I managed to get in touch with her to explain how to reboot it!).
It's a complete joke - and Microsoft should be ashamed of themselves for doing so much to lose the goodwill that Nokia built up during my time of owning a Windows Phone. Seriously, Nokia were great -- it was always possible to interact with them and get answers to questions. Microsoft on the other hand just operates like a lumbering behemoth, caring little about customer's that put faith in their flagship cameraphones.
I am heavily invested in the Microsoft platform....but if they don't start talking to us, I will be seriously contemplating a switch to Apple (I would never switch to Google!)
All the smartphone companies are losing it - I just had the famous Lollipop problem with a Nexus 7 2012, and Apple had a similar debacle a few years back. The complexity of the hardware is running ahead of ability of QR to keep up and breaking the previously friendly remote update model. Only real solution is to provide equally friendly roll-back to stable version (on Android it's a techies-only image download and manual install).
None of them want to do it, because secretly they don't mind these bork-fests, which scare people into buying next gen hardware and thus prevent Windows XP-style log-jams.
Ever since the phone 8.1 update there has been a significant number of people with wifi problems. My 920 hasn't been able to get to the internet over wifi since the update, via several different routers. There's a long list of people with similar problems on the MS support forums. I got issued with the thing, but when it comes time for me a actually buy a phone, I damn well won't choose Windows. Phone 8.1 has been a nightmare.
Count me in. I've got a 1020 which has been freezing and rebooting since I installed the developer preview (of 8.1, I think) sometime in the middle of last year. It locks up most days, and reasonably frequently more than once in a day. I originally let it slide as part of the whole "developer preview" thing, but neither the official RTM Cyan update or the more recent DP updates have helped. At least it's slightly less annoying now that WP can finally automatically re-set the correct time after a hard reset.
What's really annoying is that the only time that anyone from Microsoft had posted any information to that thread is after someone got Brian Harry (from the Visual Studio Online team) to chase it up by posting a comment on his blog, back in November. They pinged Brian again recently, and apparently he raised it with executives in the phone division and STILL no-one from the phone division has given us an update!
Also: They apparently responded to El Reg about this article, but again haven't felt that maybe they should post on the thread in their own forums.
I guess Apple and Google can be just as bad, but it's extremely distressing to be actively ignored.
I gave up on android after the Sony Xperia required multi reboots even after much rooting tooting. The replacement Lumia 735 ......... tempting fate if I say anything good ......... 'has' been fine. Meanwhile the rest of the families iphones ....... great customer satisfaction ish .... you go to the Apple Store with a 'it's gone mental' and walk out with a new one ...... Free my kids say ...... errr no I remind them, it's all in the top end price when you get it new. 1 replaced 3, 1 replaced 4, 1 replaced 4s, 1 replaced 5, 2 replaced 5s ...... I'm a regular customer.
I have a history if investing in flagship tech, and you would think I would know by now that when it comes to supporting it.. they leave you high and dry because... well... simply... they have to divert resources to the many and that leaves us high and dry. They have to put their effort where the most customers will get help, as opposed to smaller interest groups. WHICH REALLY SUCKS. It is not just MS.
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