back to article Ugly, incomplete, buggy: Windows 10 faces a sprint to the finish

Microsoft does not have long to fix Windows 10. The company plans to release it this year, and if that implies hardware on the shelves, the operating system will need to be completed in the summer – and most features will need to be near-finalised well before that. Can Microsoft gets its new Windows ready in time? Build 9926, …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    'Full screen start menu' /out

    1. Martin-73 Silver badge

      Agreed, they've apparently NOT learned

      1. Howverydare

        Got to love someone that doesn't read.

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Personally I love being able to multitask when the modal start-menu is on-screen in W7. Hang on, I can't. Maybe the other 95% of the screen could serve some purpose when looking for apps...

          1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

            Re: looking for apps

            I am willing to accept that people look for files, but looking for apps ?

            Is this a case of not knowing what you have installed on your PC, or has Microsoft screwed the GUI up so badly that finding an application shortcut is now a case of Search or Die ?

            Really, everything I read about Windows 10 makes me not want to lose Windows 7.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: looking for apps

              >>Is this a case of not knowing what you have installed on your PC, or has Microsoft screwed the GUI up so badly that finding an application shortcut is now a case of Search or Die ?

              If you aren't using search to start apps on your computer and your phone, you're doing it wrong.

              You might know what's installed on your computer/phone and you might even know where you have to swipe/tap/click to get to it, but what's to say that all that swiping/tapping/clicking is any faster or easier than just typing the first couple letters of the software you want to launch?

              This is poorly implemented in Windows and Windows Phone though so I can understand why you might not like it, if you haven't been exposed to it being implemented correctly, as it is with OS X and iOS.

              1. Greg J Preece

                Re: looking for apps

                you might not like it, if you haven't been exposed to it being implemented correctly, as it is with OS X and iOS

                I think my eyebrows just left holes in the ceiling, unless that was an astonishingly poor typo of "KDE".

                1. The FunkeyGibbon

                  Re: looking for apps

                  Always somebody from the Linux crowed around to suggest that they did something first\quickest\best.

                  Of course even if it's true they totally miss that because nobody in the Linux sphere can agree on anything (Apple = Desktop, MS = 1 Desktop, Linux = 8+ desktops) and so they remain at the fringes of the mainstream. My 6 year old son has used iOS. Will I ask him to try KDE\Gnome\Unity\Xfce\MATE\Cinnamon\Xmonad? No. Is he missing out on 'superior performance and features'? Maybe but then again maybe it doesn't matter if those features are hooked into such a niche OS.

                  1. Greg J Preece

                    Re: looking for apps

                    Le gasp, Linux has options? That's new.

                    I was simply pointing out that "we did it properly" is a bit bold, considering that the implementation is late to the game and inferior to other offerings. Your retort seems to be "nobody uses Linux", which is kinda irrelevant.

                    Alright then, we'll do it your way. OSX is used by half as many people as Windows 8, which "everybody hates", so I feel sufficiently justified in calling it a niche system and dismissing the original assertion outright.

                  2. Frumious Bandersnatch Silver badge
                    Headmaster

                    Re: looking for apps

                    they did something first\quickest\best.<br>...<br>try KDE\Gnome\Unity\Xfce\MATE\Cinnamon\Xmonad

                    Eh, your Dos/Windows fetish is showing. (slash =/= backslash)

              2. MrNed
                WTF?

                Re: looking for apps

                Disagree - I use OSX, iOS, Win7, Android, OpenSUSE, Mint... Never use search on any of them. Like the OP, I know where things are. I've never got this fascination with searching for things that are exactly where I left them.

                1. Greg J Preece

                  Re: looking for apps

                  Disagree - I use OSX, iOS, Win7, Android, OpenSUSE, Mint... Never use search on any of them. Like the OP, I know where things are. I've never got this fascination with searching for things that are exactly where I left them.

                  I use quick search on all of them, for simple speed reasons. Win key, type two or three letters, hit return. I don't even have to break flow and reach for the mouse.

                  1. Jyve

                    Re: looking for apps

                    Find the app, right click, properties, you can fire up stuff even faster.

                    But... that's for techies who read sites like this.

                    Support on Win8 with the Metro UI has been a nightmare, only fixed when using classicshell to 'make it how it used to be!'.

                    I'd have thought non techies wouldn't mind the pretty icons and all, but turns out they've been using computers just as long as us, and /really/ like not having to do anything different, even if it does mean throwing every single document they can find onto the desktop. "it's the only place I can find it easily!" /groan.

                  2. Joseph Eoff
                    FAIL

                    Re: looking for apps

                    Win key, type two or three letters, hit return, get wrong app.

                    Seriously. I have notepad++ as well as the standard windows Notepad, and a couple of other programs with "notepad" in the name. If I want Notepad, it does NOT show up if I do "Win key, type Note" - every damn thing ELSE gets shown, but not Notepad. I have to type notepad out in full before the search finds it. So, FAIL for the Windows search function.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: looking for apps

                      >>Win key, type two or three letters, hit return, get wrong app.

                      >>Seriously. I have notepad++ as well as the standard windows Notepad, and a couple of other programs with "notepad" in the name.

                      OS X handles this by displaying the most recently (or most frequently?) used app first.

                      Doesn't surprise me that Windows does it in a way that's inconvenient and bad.

                      1. Avalanche

                        Re: looking for apps

                        > OS X handles this by displaying the most recently (or most frequently?) used app first.

                        > Doesn't surprise me that Windows does it in a way that's inconvenient and bad.

                        And so does Windows 8... Why do people make negative assumptions about software they don't use?

                    2. JW 1

                      Re: looking for apps

                      Yeah, I'm late to the reply here but that comment is just wrong. I also have multiple notepads. I hit Win key and type "no" and all notepads are there with notepad ++ first since I use it most often.

                      Also, a quick look to make sure you've got the right think before you reflexively hit enter.is silly in almost anything computer related.

                      Maybe you don't have 8.1?

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: looking for apps

                  >>Disagree - I use OSX, iOS, Win7, Android, OpenSUSE, Mint... Never use search on any of them. Like the OP, I know where things are.

                  So you think my way is worse even though you've never tried it. That's a brave stance to take.

                  >>I've never got this fascination with searching for things that are exactly where I left them.

                  Where you left them is irrelevant. You must think the search features tell you where you put the apps so you can then launch them the same way you usually do. Absolutely incorrect. The search features launch the apps directly, so to launch any app on your machine, all you have to do is type a couple letters and hit enter. So you can probably launch any given app on your machine in about a second.

                  Are you confident that you can launch any app on your machine in about a second any other way?

                  1. Richard 12 Silver badge

                    Re: looking for apps

                    Textual searching is fundamentally broken because it requires the user to know the name and spelling of the application.

                    Both of which may be unexpected and may change between versions.

                    Furthermore, if you have two items with similar names you cannot tell the difference in a flat list of search results.

                    This is why the Win7 Start Menu had that highlight of newly-installed programs, and why a hierarchical menu is necessary.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: looking for apps

                      >>Textual searching is fundamentally broken because it requires the user to know the name and spelling of the application.

                      >>Both of which may be unexpected and may change between versions.

                      >>Furthermore, if you have two items with similar names you cannot tell the difference in a flat list of search results.

                      I guess you're right, the first couple letters of Chrome ("ch") or iTunes ("it") or Photoshop ("ph") are basically impossible to remember, and Google/Apple/Adobe change the names of these apps all the time. </sarcasm>

                      Apparently it was a miracle that I was ever able to launch an app using this fundamentally broken process.

                      1. Joseph Eoff

                        Re: looking for apps

                        Yes, actually it is - IF you have programs with similar names, or which contain similar strings.

                    2. Pookietoo

                      Re: Textual searching is fundamentally broken

                      Except those nice Ubuntu people add generic descriptions to the search, so I can type "text" to launch gedit or "spread" to launch LibreOffice Calc without ever knowing what they're called.

                  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

                    Re: all you have to do is type a couple letters and hit enter

                    And all a skiddie has to do is put some exe on your PC that starts with the same couple letters and you'll be launching it without even realizing.

                    All I have to do is launch the shortcut. Given that I have eyes and know how to use them, and given that I also know how to use Windows since 1995, it is not a problem for me. All the apps I need to launch have their shortcuts either on my desktop or in the taskbar. It's called organization, you might want to look that up.

                    Go on searching if that makes you feel superior, but leave me my shortcuts.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: all you have to do is type a couple letters and hit enter

                      >>And all a skiddie has to do is put some exe on your PC that starts with the same couple letters and you'll be launching it without even realizing.

                      Sure, because that's your biggest security concern when you're giving skiddies access to your machine.

                      I'm being sarcastic, by the way.

                  3. Swarthy Silver badge
                    Boffin

                    Re: looking for apps

                    Are you confident that you can launch any app on your machine in about a second any other way?
                    Yes.

                    Win+R, type in the program (NOT 'app') name and enter. Possibly use the down arrow to pick it up from history.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: looking for apps

                      >>Are you confident that you can launch any app on your machine in about a second any other way?

                      >>Yes.

                      >>Win+R, type in the program (NOT 'app') name and enter. Possibly use the down arrow to pick it up from history.

                      Great. How is that not a search feature? Or should I thank you for proving my point?

                      1. Joseph Eoff

                        Re: looking for apps

                        Because "Windows R" doesn't search. It simply executes what ever you've typed in - and if you type wrong you get an error message. The selection box is only a list of things you've entered before - it is NOT a list of things on your computer.

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: looking for apps

                          >>Because "Windows R" doesn't search. It simply executes what ever you've typed in - and if you type wrong you get an error message. The selection box is only a list of things you've entered before - it is NOT a list of things on your computer.

                          If you want to be pedantic about this stuff, the search in your case is being executed on the things you've entered before, in order to populate the selection box. Search doesn't necessarily mean searching files on a computer. The end result is similar to launching an application via Spotlight in OS X, etc.

                  4. MrNed

                    Re: looking for apps

                    "So you think my way is worse even though you've never tried it. That's a brave stance to take."

                    I said nothing of the sort - where did you imagine that one up from? And even if I had, it's not as brave a stance as having a go at someone based on an imaginary premise.

                    "Where you left them is irrelevant. You must think the search features tell you where you put the apps so you can then launch them the same way you usually do."

                    Hahaha - you're funny - who's taking a brave stance now? Imagining all sorts based on... umm... well, I don't know. Like most commenters on this site, I have more than a passing familiarity with many aspects of computing, including how search features work. .

                    "Are you confident that you can launch any app on your machine in about a second any other way?".

                    Some - less than a second, sure. They're right there on the dock - grab mouse, click, boom - an app launches. It's quite astonishing, really it is.

                    But I'm just looking for where I said that I begrudge the extra second it takes me to launch an app that isn't on my dock...? I'm sure it would be nice to save up all of those seconds and spend them on a nice holiday somewhere, away from dickheads and numbnuts. But I know that in reality they'll all be stolen by my boss and chalked up to "efficiency savings", so I think I'll keep those fleeting moments to myself thankyou very much, and stick by my personal view that I don't get the fascination with search features because things will be where I put them.

                    And, you know, having that extra second gives me time to ponder the deeper things - life, the Universe... everything. Maybe you should try it...

                    ...then again, perhaps you should reclaim those lost seconds and spend them on a return to kindergarten comprehension class, because it appears that you read one thing but imagine you've read another. Word of advice though: until you've been back to school, don't go around demonstrating your ignorance by spouting off like this in public. Just makes you look stupid, and I'm sure you're not.

                    Funny old world, innit?

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: looking for apps

                      >>I said nothing of the sort - where did you imagine that one up from? And even if I had, it's not as brave a stance as having a go at someone based on an imaginary premise.

                      You said you "never use search on any of them," i.e., any one of many different OSs.

                      I suppose I jumped the gun on my interpretation that you've never used search in the past. On the other hand, if you meant that you used to use search and stopped, then why not just say that and avoid the ambiguity?

                      I'll take a reading comprehension class as soon as you take a writing class.

                  5. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: looking for apps

                    The search features launch the apps directly, so to launch any app on your machine, all you have to do is type a couple letters and hit enter.

                    Like this?

                    RC=0 stuartl@vk4msl-mb ~ $ fir_[tab]

                    RC=0 stuartl@vk4msl-mb ~ $ firefox _

                3. Graham Triggs

                  Re: looking for apps

                  Horses for courses.

                  I always used to use the start menu, or the Applications folder on Mac. But with Windows 8, rather than try to deal with sorting out the start screen, if I know what I want I usually just hit the win key and type the name - and it pops up in search.

                4. deconstructionist

                  Re: looking for apps

                  odd most used function in a enterprise environment, type 3 letters and it presents most thing like type SSO for the sso admin, type bi for BizTalk saves so much hassle don't know any of the other consultants or architects in my team that don't use it as a first point to start up an app.

                  Another odd thing about this article is about how it works on a tablet like MS has corner the market in tablet...wait that's right it has not , so who cares how it works on a tablet that why 8 failed like Eddie the eagle Edwards as in not really suited to what was required , MS has a truck load of work to convince the Enterprise market that it has shed all of Ballmer's madness, 10 needs to be enterprise ready from the get go this one OS for all is narrow band thinking(straight buzzshit from ballmer)

              3. Pascal Monett Silver badge

                Re: If you aren't using search [..] you're doing it wrong

                Well bugger me.

                Here I was still thinking that computers were supposed to simplify my life and that a shortcut was a pretty handy way of doing things.

                Thank you for enlightening me. I will forthwith scramble all my possessions in all my drawers and cupboards, put my DVDs in the garage and my tools in the bathroom and spend the rest of my life wasting hours finding back whatever it is I might need to something I might want to do.

                NOT.

                1. John Robson Silver badge

                  Re: If you aren't using search [..] you're doing it wrong

                  "I will forthwith scramble all my possessions in all my drawers and cupboards, put my DVDs in the garage and my tools in the bathroom and spend the rest of my life wasting hours finding back whatever it is I might need to something I might want to do."

                  If only we had something which could rapidly do the search for me, and get the relevant tool/dvd to me quickly.

                  In Win7 or OSx or Linux I press a specified key, then a couple of characters of the program I want. This has normally uniquely selected the program, so I can hit enter without ever moving my hands from the home keys.

                  That's generally significantly faster than trying to remember which sub menu I've stored something in, and select the menu, the sub menu and then the item - and losing my place on the keyboard...

                  A better analogy might be a DVD shelf where you start to speak the name of the film and you are given the DVD before you've finished the first word* of the title, or at worst a selection of two or three discs (normally a series no doubt).

                  * "The" doesn't count in the context of a film title

              4. Richard 126

                Re: looking for apps

                The trouble with search for everything and the time you really need a good menu is when you have no idea what is installed on the computer. This happens when some Luser who appears to be stuck irrevocably in dummy mode brings me a laptop with the complaint that some program they have forgotten the name of, made to do some job, but they can't remember what is doing or maybe not doing something that maybe it should or shouldn't be doing. Really handy at this time to have a good menu to scroll though to find out what on earth is on the box. Not perhaps as useful as an over voltage cattle prod but useful.

            2. big_D Silver badge

              Re: looking for apps

              @Pascal I rarely use the start menu / start screen to look for apps. I press the Windows key, type in the first few letters of the app name and hit enter, much faster than searching through the Windows 7 start menu - especially on an administered machine, where you need the admin password (which I don't have) in order to arrange the list of apps into some semblance of order.

              For the most part, the apps I use on a daily basis are fixed to the taskbar, so I don't need the start menu very often.

            3. Mark 65

              Re: looking for apps

              Really, everything I read about Windows 10 makes me not want to lose Windows 7.

              Meet Windows 7, it's the new Windows XP with security fixes out until Jan 14 2020.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            >>Personally I love being able to multitask when the modal start-menu is on-screen in W7. Hang on, I can't.

            Personally I love being able to start an app (a simple process that I do often) without having to suffer through two full-screen animations in rapid succession. Hang on, I can't.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Personally I love being able to multitask when the modal start-menu is on-screen in W7. Hang on, I can't. Maybe the other 95% of the screen could serve some purpose when looking for apps...

            Like keeping a document in view so that you can continue referring to it as you look for other said app in the start menu?

    2. Michael B.

      Good job it's not the default and requires you to select Full Screen mode when using the Mouse. The default Start Menu style is the merged Metro/Win 7 style.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        But without search or categories (just tiles and apps in alphabetical order)

      2. P. Lee Silver badge

        >The default Start Menu style is the merged Metro/Win 7 style.

        But WHY?

        There is a tablet mode - use the metro style with that. There is a desktop mode, use the W7 mode with that.

        Don't splat tiles around in menus when I'm using a mouse - that just makes me have to move the mouse more.

        IS this design based on someone's ego and rank?

    3. TheVogon Silver badge

      "Ugly, incomplete, buggy: Windows 10"

      That's probably what Service Pack 1 (or whatever they decide to call the first major point release) will fix! Disagree on the ugly though - I think it looks pretty cool already.

      Microsoft's recent OSs have all been useable and very stable out of the door, but there are always plenty of things to improve, clean up and optimise later...

  2. Simon Jones [MSDL]

    Ugly, inconsistent, unfinished, and dangerous

    Icons in File Explorer are BRIGHT yellow and VERY ugly.

    Icon in Settings are blue-grey stick things and indecipherable.

    File Explorer "Favourite" shortcuts have been replaced by "Quick Access" pseudo-shortcuts that you can't rename, can't reorder, don't show the correct "breadcrumbs" and deleting them will delete the underlying folder if you're not careful!

    Definitely going backwards in some departments - hopefully to go forward again eventually.

    1. Robin

      Re: Ugly, inconsistent, unfinished, and dangerous

      While we're on the subject of File Explorer... Hopefully they're doing this with the Spartan thing, but I've wished for ages that they'd ditch the 'xyz Explorer' nomenclature.

      I've lost count of the number of times I've been standing behind somebody at their desk and asked them to open explorer while we're doing some file-related task.

      "The internet?"

      "No, Windows Explorer."

      So IE gets opened anyway.

      I'm a developer as well, so I hate to think how often the frontline support guys have to deal with this.

      While they're at it, they can ditch the "My xyz" as well. It's led to some lazy naming in coding, and the change in metaphor from clicking on "My Computer" and being told something about "your computer" is strange.

      1. jaywin

        Re: Ugly, inconsistent, unfinished, and dangerous

        That's hardly surprising considering virtually nobody ever clicks anything that says Explorer, or sees a window that says Explorer in the title bar, when they need to look at files on their computer.

        I suspect if you used the full name of the program "Windows Explorer" (or "File Explorer" in earlier versions), people wouldn't be questioning whether you mean Internet Explorer.

        Personally, I just tell them to open My Computer from the Desktop. Everybody knows what that is, and knows where to find it (unless they've managed to hide the desktop icons *again*).

      2. hplasm Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Ugly, inconsistent, unfinished, and dangerous

        "While we're on the subject of File Explorer... "

        It has to be called that to explain the feeling that using Windows is like hacking through a dense, impenetrable jungle...

        1. MrNed
          Coffee/keyboard

          Re: Ugly, inconsistent, unfinished, and dangerous

          "It has to be called that to explain the feeling that using Windows is like hacking through a dense, impenetrable jungle..."

          Wish I could give you 10 thumbs up for that one.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Holmes

    I put it on a desktop system

    Works fine. Only real problem I had was the driver for a Netgear USB wifi dongle wouldn't load - I had to swap it out for a Linksys wifi dongle.

    Sometimes Windows 10 throws up weird messages. For instance, about twice a day I'm reminded that my plugged-in desktop has "0% Battery". Not a real problem though - the system is basically stable, which was my biggest concern. I'm running Visual Studio (Community edition), Unreal Engine 4 and Chrome on it, along with Malwarebytes and a few utilities like CCleaner.

    Start menu is a bit messy - I'll probably load the free Classic Shell version eventually. But honestly, the Classic Shell team does Start menus so much better than nearly anyone else right now, there's no reason not to install it. I even install it on my Win7 machines because it's just simply better.

    1. Radelix

      Re: I put it on a desktop system

      They addressed that when 9929 was released. They know that devices without batteries are showing batteries with 0% charge. I would imagine that will be addressed in the next update....hopefully

      1. Primus Secundus Tertius Silver badge

        Re: I put it on a desktop system - hopefully

        To "address" something "hopefully" is better than to actually fix it.

        "Sir, I am hoping the battery indicator is correct?!"

    2. MysteryGuy

      Re: I put it on a desktop system

      I also put 9926 on a Desktop VM to give it a try for the first time. As a Win-7 desktop user I was very disappointed. (I still think it's way worst than Windows 7, for multiple reasons).

      First off, it's goes further in spreading the 'TIFKAM' graphics style. For desktop use, I hate the flat, lifeless style and I think it's less informationally dense.

      As far as search goes,I don't want a combined 'search the Web and my local computer' when I usually want to search my local computer, and I have a Web browser when I want to search the web.

      They really seem to be pushing hard to be 'Always logged on' (and presumably ready to buy more 'apps' from their store). I don't want to constantly send my search habits to MS ( or any of their friends), etc.

      The start menu seems to lack many of the features I use in Win 7, Like the Fly-out menus to the right for Control Panel, etc.

      Initially, I really didn't find anything that I would think of as an 'improvement' over Windows 7...

  4. SnowCrash

    Disabling the xaml start menu (gives you the previous Nov 14 type start menu) and everything is gravy

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Lets hope for two things

      1) all these little tricks get collected together

      2) MS don't play hardball and take out things like this little tip.

      You never know, they might just mess it all up out of spite especially if the people involved in putting the Start Menu back are the same ones who took it all away.

  5. Brandon 2

    I still shudder...

    ... at the thought of having to learn a new operating system... after nearly throwing several win 8 equipped laptops through the window. Can I just keep "7" forever?

    1. dogged
      Holmes

      Re: I still shudder...

      will you operate it whilst enjoying a swift jaunt around one of Her Majesty's parks on your newfangled Penny Farthing, good sir?

      Oh, if only there were a version one's valet could carry for one for use whilst travelling upon a charabanc or the public omnibus!

      1. Primus Secundus Tertius Silver badge

        Re: I still shudder...

        The bookmakers at the old chariot races could have used computers for updating the odds rapidly.

    2. PCS

      Re: I still shudder...

      It's called the future. Get used to it.

      1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        Re: I still shudder...

        It's called the future. Get used to it.

        Why? I live in the present, and tomorrow never comes...

      2. hplasm Silver badge
        Gimp

        Re: I still shudder...

        Q: When will Windows be finally ready for the desktop?

        A: An unspecified time. It's called the future. Get used to it.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I still shudder...

          Q: When will Windows be finally ready for the desktop?

          A: An unspecified time. It's called the future. Get used to it.

          Actually a desktop-ready Windows occupies one possible future, and there's no guarantee it will happen in our particular timeline.

          1. king of foo

            Re: I still shudder...

            Finally, the time has come.

            2015 will be the year of windows on the desktop.

            No, wait, that can't be right!

    3. hoverboy
      1. JW 1

        Re: I still shudder...

        Forgot about that but soooo true. Yesterday a client had me getting files off an old Vista laptop prior to wipe/Win7 load. That file copy problem still existed in SP2. An 8gig wifi file transfer was supposedly going to take anywhere from 2 hours to 19 hours. Fortunately he had an old external hd but shocking how horrible that system was at the most basic of computer tasks.

    4. Martin Maloney
      Thumb Up

      Re: I still shudder...

      "...Can I just keep "7" forever?"

      You -- we -- can keep it until spring 2020, when support ends. By then, the current version of Windows will be 12 or 13.

      Barring the release of some just-gotta-have-it-program-or-hardware-that-requires-Windows-10, I can't imagine "upgrading" from Windows 7.

  6. Chris Miller

    RTM

    I wonder if MS will even bother to produce a physical version. They deliver to OEMs electronically and since they're 'giving' it to anyone with Win7/8, presumably they'll all be downloads (and even 'purchased' software like boxed Office bought from a store now just contains a small slip with a key printed on it for download, although disks are available at an extra cost for those without a fast Internet connection).

    My betting is that 'free for a year' implies they want to go to an Office 365 model where you rent the OS with automatic updates (I read that you can't turn automatic Windows Update off) to future versions.

    1. dogged

      Re: RTM

      > My betting is that 'free for a year' implies they want to go to an Office 365 model where you rent the OS with automatic updates

      I'd take that bet but it would be unfair because Terry Myerson said a week ago at the preview event that it would not be a subscription, that there would be no further charges for the OS and that anyone who tried to implement such a pricing model must be "nuts".

      Don't worry though, it's still being repeated around the Internet, mostly by the same people who spread FUD about SecureBoot.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @dogged - Re: RTM

        What? SecureBoot no longer requires boot loader to be signed by Microsoft's private key ? Woo-hoo!!

        On a different matter, I don't quite care what Terry Myerson said but I do read carefully what Microsoft COO tells investors (just read https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=http://www.microsoft.com/global/Investor/RenderingAssets/Downloads/FY15/CreditSuisse_Turner.docx ) because if this guy is telling lies he risks going to prison.

        1. Zoopy

          Re: @dogged - RTM

          " if this guy is telling lies he risks going to prison"

          I don't think you understand the U.S. legal system. He's rich, and therefore untouchable.

    2. DuncanL

      Re: RTM

      In addition to being wrong about the subscription; I'm afraid to say you're also wrong about this:

      (I read that you can't turn automatic Windows Update off) to future versions.

      That's only the case in the Technical Preview, so they can ensure everyone is testing the current fixed versions - the final release will have exactly the same options as 7/8/8.1

      1. Chris Miller

        Re: RTM

        It's great that there's so many Microsoft insiders, with deep insight into the future sales, marketing and technical strategies for Windows, posting here. Or perhaps they're just sciolists.

        1. dogged

          Re: RTM

          I don't think you need to be an MS insider to notice that what they're offering is a zero-price OEM license.

    3. stobe

      Re: RTM

      >My betting is that 'free for a year' implies they want to go to an Office 365 model where you rent the OS with automatic updates (I read that you can't turn automatic Windows Update off) to future versions.

      No. Free for a year means that you may upgrade from 7/8 to 10 within a year from 10's release without extra charge, thereafter you may have to pay an upgrade fee. If you did your research before making your bets you'd know that Terry Myerson also said "Once a device is upgraded to Windows 10, we'll be keeping it current for the supported lifetime of the device", that's "of the device" not "of the subscription"!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: RTM

        Supported lifetime? What is this? 2 years?

      2. shovelDriver

        Re: RTM

        "we'll be keeping it current for the supported lifetime of the device""

        Who decides what the "lifetime" of a "device" is?

        What's a "device"? Motherboard, daughterboard, external peripherals, printers, etc, etc?

        1. dogged

          Re: RTM

          It would be incredibly complex (and thus expensive) for MS to go around deciding what the lifetime of any device is. Therefore, what this (almost certainly means) is, in the short version "non-transferrable". You can't take your Win10 license key from your 7-inch tablet, junk the tablet and put it on an HTPC.

          OEM license, basically.

      3. P. Lee Silver badge

        Re: RTM

        re: Supported lifetime of the device

        Badly put. It could mean, "for as long as we decide to support the device."

        The problem is MS' Byzantine licensing scheme. You haven't bought a W10 license for the lifetime of W10, you've got a W10 license for the lifetime of a particular device instance.

        Even if people are mis-understanding things, MS have generated a bit of a PR failure from what was supposed to be a PR triumph. Working out what MS really means is evidently too hard. Regardless of whether you think people are spreading FUD or are stupid, the end result is poor for MS. If they had said, "all non-enterprise, non-Pro Vista, W7 and W8 licenses can have an free upgrade to W10" it would have been somewhat clearer. Don't add licensing weasel-words to your PR, it makes you look dodgy.

  7. ADRM
    FAIL

    Windows 10.

    Jack of all trades and master of none.

    1. J J Carter Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10.

      What an epic fail of a 'review'. The good bits a not original and the original bits are not good.

  8. Mage Silver badge
    Devil

    Tablet?

    If I want a Tablet I'd get iOs or Android.

    Just flipping fix all the bugs you been putting in since NT3.51

    We don't want a Joss stick and whale song one windows to rule them all. We just want the Windows Desktop to work BETTER and more consistently than NT3.5x, NT4.0, XP.

    Forget all the garbage unwanted features and eye candy. Just fix it.

    Totally pissed of with MS after installing and programming and supporting NT Windows since 1994

    There is a good reason iOs and OS X are not the same

    There is a good reason why Linux Desktop/Server distros are different to phone versions or Android.

    It's totally nuts to try and have the same for both. It's possible. But you end up penalising everyone.

    Windows CE was horrible GUI on PDA and early phones BECAUSE it copied Win95 GUI.

    Zune was better. But to try and combine Explorer and Zune is madness.

  9. Camilla Smythe

    "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

    "Hey, PowderPuffFace. Why not start with losing your hard coded pretend personality?"

    "Good Morning! Let's get your day started.

    1) Nice Weather.

    2) Install Linux.

    ->

    -

    Click. Del.. Tap.. Tap.. Booting from sdbc3.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

      Good for you.

      Now, what do you suggest for people who use Windows-only accountancy packages, CAD suites, and play the occasional game?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Dave126 - Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

        I'd tell them to prepare to be monetized.

      2. Camilla Smythe

        Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

        "Now, what do you suggest for people who use Windows-only accountancy packages, CAD suites, and play the occasional game?"

        Erm.. MySQL, FreePascal/Lazarus... obviously I am looking for a lebian experience with Ms Stobb.

        It is, after all, apparently 'cross platform' and also comes with 'Free, As in Beer'... which might be part of the problem so I would not suggest you adapt someone else's or write your own and come up with concepts that fit what you want.

        Of course you may also choose to continue to pay to 'live inside the box' and pay for the opportunity to 'live outside of the box'... whilst still being 'inside the box'.

        Perhaps you might also provide the Pluniverse with 'Flappy Dave'.

        Before you rape me I claim naif.

        1. Tromos

          "...looking for a lebian experience..."

          Is that yet another Linux distro?

        2. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

          >Perhaps you might also provide the Pluniverse with 'Flappy Dave'.

          Camilla, I am not a coder. I am a product designer. Good quality proprietary software allows me to design and build real objects more easily than any open source equivalent. The amount of time and money it saves me is orders of magnitude greater than a Windows licence.

          I am no more likely to 'roll my own' CAD suite than a carpenter would make her own cordless drill. She doesn't make her cordless drill because she's a carpenter who makes chairs and not a tool manufacturer! I really don't understand why you find that scenario so objectionable.

          >Before you rape me I claim naif.

          What does that even mean?

      3. Zoopy

        Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

        Or Photoshop and Lightroom?

        Please don't say Gimp and Darkroom. Few professional photographers are willing to leave that walled garden, especially just because their (handsome) husbands are ideologically inclined towards FLOSS.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

          "Please don't say Gimp and Darkroom. Few professional photographers are willing to leave that walled garden, especially just because their (handsome) husbands are ideologically inclined towards FLOSS."

          I find it hilarious that the careers of these "professional photographers" depend on one certain piece of software. It's like as a coder I would require one certain IDE. And btw, Darktable is awesome.

          1. Chemist

            Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

            "And btw, Darktable is awesome."

            Indeed it is

      4. P. Lee Silver badge

        Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

        >Now, what do you suggest for people who use Windows-only accountancy packages, CAD suites, and play the occasional game?

        There are quite a few games under linux. Steam is your friend.

        Accountancy shouldn't be a problem - get VMware Player so you can move your software between hardware instances.

        There are CAD programs from linux. GIYF. If this is a business the odd OS license cost is probably negligible next to the CAD software cost if you've gone Autocad. Apparently Chief Architect X can be moved to Linux if you have a windows machine you can borrow to do the initial install. Your VM might work there. YMMV since it isn't even that stable on Windows.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

          @P. Lee

          Thank you.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

          Solidworks Version 10 runs rock solid in virtual box on Debian. I have no idea why but it is more stable running in a VM than it ever was running directly on windows 7 Other CAD packages maybe similar.

      5. juzzlin

        Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

        "Now, what do you suggest for people who use Windows-only accountancy packages, CAD suites, and play the occasional game?"

        I don't know about accountancy, but I use Steam for playing. Some years ago I worked for a company that did electrical engineering only on Linux with commercial software. That's also "CAD".

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Hey, Camilla. What can I do for You?"

        "Now, what do you suggest for people who use Windows-only accountancy packages, CAD suites, and play the occasional game?"

        Or want a locally installed version of Office that actually works?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ...the only fix being a reboot.

    Good old windows then.

    One reason for the give away is, as they no longer have to give a browser choice, moving everyone one to a [yearly fee | new ] version of windows means more IE/Bing users.

    1. ThomH Silver badge

      Re: ...the only fix being a reboot.

      The browser choice is already ended. It wasn't a requirement for selling an OS, it was a time-limited attempt to redress Microsoft's specific errant behaviour. IE no longer having hegemony for a variety of reasons, I doubt anybody discussed extending it let alone figured out whether legally they could.

  11. ADRM
    WTF?

    Who down voted me?

    Windows 7 is a desktop computer operating system. Windows 10 is an everything for all devices OS so it cannot by definition be good at everything. If you have retail licences of 7 (insert version here) and you "upgrade" to 10 do you lose the ability to reinstall after a crash or a hardware upgrade? We have 5 years left on 7 which at this rate is probably 2 further OS release cycles.

    1. Chris Miller

      Not me, guv

      But if you're worried about down-votes, don't post on topics related to (especially) OS or mobile phones. There are plenty of zealots who will automatically down-vote anything that disagrees with their world view (almost irrespective of what it actually says).

      Welcome to the Internet.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Who down voted me?

      >Windows 10 is an everything for all devices OS so it cannot by definition be good at everything.

      By definition? An OS can have many UIs - just ask Linux users. Even within Windows, a game might use one UI paradigm and a word-processor another. I'm not saying that Win10 will be good at everything, but I don't see why it can't be 'by definition'. Or are you thinking of applications being optimised for x86 vs ARM?

      >We have 5 years left on 7 which at this rate is probably 2 further OS release cycles.

      Windows 10 is said to be the last Windows - there are no plans for any major releases after Win10, just updates to the codebase.

      > If you have retail licences of 7 (insert version here) and you "upgrade" to 10 do you lose the ability to reinstall after a crash or a hardware upgrade?

      You bought a Win 7 licence, that will still be valid.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who down voted me?

      That's not really true though.

      It's like arguing that a responsive web site cannot be as good on a desktop as an old-fashioned web site that doesn't support mobile and tablets.

      Clearly Windows 10 reformats the screen and features depending on what device you are on, so I see no reason in theory why it should not be possible to be just as good as a desktop OS. Whether it will be is another question, but there is no fundamental reason why it cannot.

    4. VinceLortho

      Re: Who down voted me?

      Yes, Windows 10 does seem to be the F-35 fighter for computers.

  12. itscoldhere

    So when my 80 grandfather boots up his shiny new Windows 10 box, will Coranta ask him: "Hey gramps dude, what rendering engine would you like to use in IE today?"

    Good to know there's still zero reasons to switch from the predictable, slowly but sensibly evolving user experience provided by my rock-solid MacBook.

    Wonder if Cortana (who came up with that one BTW?) will reply as cutely as Siri when asked "Hey Siri, talk dirty to me"

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      What's wrong with checking if there is ActiveX etc... on the page and if so silently switching to the old rendering engine and adding that site to a list so it's rendered with the old engine straight away in the future. Also all local Intranet sites are rendered by default with the old engine.

      You can tell it's MS, they never quite manage to get it right. It's always just a bit too fiddly.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Wonder if Cortana (who came up with that one BTW?) will reply as cutely as Siri when asked "Hey Siri, talk dirty to me"

      Dunno, but the name "Cortana" isn't a common one. Got mistaken for "Cortina" around here the other day. Now there's a blast from the automotive past.

      What's wrong with checking if there is ActiveX etc... on the page and if so silently switching to the old rendering engine and adding that site to a list so it's rendered with the old engine straight away in the future. Also all local Intranet sites are rendered by default with the old engine.

      No, can't see any malware problems with that approach…

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Malware problems? No worse than usual.

        Usability? A lot more.

        As a way of phasing out the old rendering engine, there are worse ways.

    3. Shades

      (who came up with that one BTW?)

      Cortana is a character from the Halo series of XBox games (which Microsoft still own the rights to after buying and then selling the games developers). More specifically she (yes, she) is a computer AI that is visually represented by a human-like 3D hologram and can also transfer between devices (her own portable chip and other computers). If I had to hazard a guess I'd say the ability for Cortana to transfer between devices was the main impetus for "her" inclusion on the desktop as well as mobile phones... What is the betting that Microsoft will eventually, if they havent already, link Cortana on mobile phones and desktops so that you can ask her, via a Windows phone, to remind you of something when you're next using your desktop and vice-versa?

      1. jnemesh

        Re: (who came up with that one BTW?)

        You mean, sharing of notifications, like I do already with Pushbullet and my Note 4? But more proprietary and limited only to Microsoft platforms? GENIUS! :/

    4. 's water music Silver badge

      cute

      Wonder if Cortana (who came up with that one BTW?) will reply as cutely as Siri when asked "Hey Siri, talk dirty to me"

      I find, when asking a lady to "talk dirty to me", that addressing her with the name of another lady will significantly alter the cuteness of the response. Do not ask me how I know this.

  13. Technological Viking
    Facepalm

    Pendulum swung too far

    In order to address complaints that desktop users had because their desktop was uncomfortable and more suited to a tablet, Microsoft decided to push these fixes onto the same OS that the tablet was running! Whereas tablet users had limited complaints and merely wanted minor tweaks and increased options, MS really seems to have missed the mark here.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  14. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Good review

    Covered a range of topics, asked good questions and didn't pretend to know all the answers. I agree that Windows 10 is a gamble that MS has to get at least mainly right.

  15. Gis Bun

    Errr

    That's why it's called a technical preview. It's not even a beta. It's buggy.

    1. Vladimir Nicolici

      Re: Errr

      Re: "That's why it's called a technical preview. It's not even a beta. It's buggy"

      Yeah, right. That's what was said about the Windows 8 previews: "Don't worry, MS won't ship it like this, they'll fix it before RTM, why do you complain about an alpha/beta etc.".

      Unfortunately the RTM for Windows 8 was only slightly better than the Windows 8 previews.

      Hopefully this time they'll listen better to the user feedback, but after seeing the regressions from the latest build compared to the previous build, I'm very concerned that they'll release something that is worse than both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1.

      And there's not much that much time to fix it, about 6 months according to the latest estimates.

    2. jnemesh

      Re: Errr

      No, the beta is when the software is released for public consumption. It doesn't leave beta until "Service Pack 1"...or haven't you been paying attention to how things work at MS the past decade?

  16. Joe User
    Trollface

    Maps app time estimate

    The Maps app looks nice but assured me that a bus from Nottingham to London would take 30 minutes (reality is nearer 4 hours).

    That code was written by the same guy who does the time estimate for file copies.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Maps app time estimate

      Or the script writer for Robin Hood POS^HT.

  17. Jim Willsher

    The comments on page one re: tablet mode, touchscreen mode, are completely academic. NOBODY uses them! Mouse, keyboard.....that is all.

  18. Max Normal

    Will we be able to completely remove clippy/cortana?

    Same for OneDrive?

    Can ClassicShell be installed and run?

    1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

      @Max Normal.

      I wondered that as well.

      My desktop doesn't include a microphone so there's no way that voice-activated resource-gobbler will ever know what I've been calling it while I search for how to uninstall the piece of shite.

      I will immediately disable all Indexing & Search functions, as all they do is waste HD space, system resources, & are a crutch for those whom can't be bothered to put an icon on the desktop. (Seriously, while you're using WindowsKey & typing for the Search to find what you want, WindowsKey+M to the desktop, first letter of the shortcut, and go from there, or set a Shortcut so you can just ControlAltN to launch Notepad for example.)

      I'm not too impressed with what I've heard so far about the new Win10, as most (if not all) of what I hear is essentially cosmetic. It doesn't matter how hard you polish that sucker, it's still just a lump of dung.

      Oh, and for the Register's writer to criticize MS on their UI choices is just hilarious. MS has Metro, ElReg has their homepage. Pot meet Kettle.

  19. VinceH Silver badge

    "There are also some focus problems. While typing in Word, I hit the Connect button in the Notification Center in order to connect a Bluetooth speaker. The Connect dialogue box opened underneath Word, so I thought it was not working."

    I had this problem often enough for it to be a nuisance (mostly with UAC) on Windows 7; I'd invoke something or other, and nothing would seem to happen... until I discovered the UAC prompt had appeared underneath the current window. I have seen it a couple of times since I've been using Windows 8 - but not as much as I did on Windows 7. So I don't think this is a new problem with Windows 10, just an existing problem still an issue.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I don't understand why the modal dialog boxes don't always appear on top. It must be something simple to do, because you can easyly switch to them as a user. I also don't understand why some windows appear off screen (as the article say).

      It is so hard to do the math?

      I remember that a while ago I had a problem with Opera e-mail client. I've printed a message and it made no sense. Something was missing. I've compared it with the on screen message and I've discovered half of it was not printed. After that I've experimented with the print settings changing some lengths and with line count of the message and it turned out to be a reproducible bug. I've reported it and it was not fixed in any ulterior version. This is very funny for a page layout application.

  20. s. pam
    Terminator

    die another day...

    If it looks like a turd, and smells like a....

    Just like the OS discussed in the movie "it'll be bug ridden, flaky, crash randomly and require upgrades for years to come."

    Well done Redmond then!

  21. mistergrantham

    I use programs

    ...not the OS, so whatever boots faster & doesn't cause segfaults = better.

    1. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: I use programs

      I use programs

      ...not the OS, so whatever boots faster & doesn't cause segfaults = better.

      Yesterday I upgraded my neighbours six year old dual core laptop.

      I put in a 128GB SSD which cost £57.

      Installed Ubuntu 14.04, cost zero

      It boots up in eleven seconds.

      I define booted-up by when the disc drive light stops flashing. With Windows this can be several minutes.

      1. 45RPM Silver badge

        Re: I use programs

        @Mystic Megabyte

        It seems to me that you've picked a nice headline, but the rabbit hole is deeper than that.

        It used to be the oft repeated refrain that "Linux is hard to install" and "Not suitable for desktop use." My own experience is that the pendulum has swung the other way. When I installed Ubuntu on my PC (DFI mobo, AMD Phenom quad core CPU - so far from state of the art), everything worked. Sound. Graphics. Network. Everything. There was no need to install extra drivers, and the whole process was not much harder than installing Mac OS X on my Mac. Subsequent upgrades to Ubuntu have been equally painless (barring one where the power failed half way through - but I don't think that that was Ubuntu's fault, and I was able to recover using single-user mode and the command line).

        Windows, we're told, is painless and easy to install. Sadly, that's not been my experience. On the same PC, I tried to install Windows 8.1 on an additional hard drive - but the Windows 8.1 installer (booted from USB) got a little way through the installation and then decided that it didn't like the hard drive. The same happened when I tried with a second, box-fresh, spinner. Fine. Okay. So I bit the bullet and bravely upgraded my Windows 7 partition. It installed (very slowly) without issue - but, after completing the install, it became apparent that Windows 8.1 can't recognise the resolutions supported by my monitor, and I no longer have any sound. Marvellous. The first issue I can fix by fiddling with the registry, and the second I can fix by manually searching for and installing drivers. So neither issue is insurmountable - but why should I have to surmount them? I didn't have to with Linux - Linux just worked.

        I'm very aware of the argument. Windows will perform faster for games - but I couldn't give a crap about that. I don't play games. I work. And Ubuntu is quite as fast as Windows for what I do.

        There are a few things that Microsoft needs to do before it releases Windows 10 (in my opinion). Most importantly, it needs to make Windows 10 as easy to install and as reliable as Ubuntu. Get the basics right before fiddling around with fripperies like Cortana. Fingers crossed that it can - and this will be the best Windows yet.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I use programs

        "I define booted-up by when the disc drive light stops flashing"

        I define it by when the Logon screen appears. Which is under 6 seconds from cold power on with my several years old Dell laptop running Windows 8.1 and an SSD.

        1. Joseph Eoff

          Re: I use programs

          Yeah, and after that another 5 minutes before you can really use the computer to do anything.

  22. The FunkeyGibbon
    FAIL

    Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot...

    Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot by insisting it is possible to have a universal OS for desktop and touch. Has there been a better time for Linux to capitalise on the weakness of Microsoft's offering? No. Will there be a swing towards Linux? No. Why? Because no corporation with significant funds stands to gain from Linux. This is why it will ALWAYS be the fringe OS and Microsoft can move from blunder (ME) to blunder (Vista) to potential blunder (10?) without any serious challenge to it's position in the desktop market. Apple are happy with their elitist niche they've carved out, who else wants to be in the OS market? Nobody. The potential of the hardware we have is shackled to the imagination of Microsoft's engineers and marketing teams. It took the emergence of iOS and Android to show that Microsoft needn't be the only game in town, that there could be innovation in the OS market, now what is needed is somebody to challenge them in new markets but to take them on in their own back yard. It won't happen any more than Linux can get a coherent act together either but I can dream...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot...

      Well said.

      I'm quite happy with Linux being unpopular - because I don't give a shit if the unwashed masses don't like it because it's more than good enough for me.

      I'm over the moon that a company isn't capitalising Linux or it will become the same trash as Windows trying to please everyone but failing, or the incompatible with everyone else (ie Apple - but don't get me wrong, I do like their stuff but not their control of what I can/can't use). But they're both consumer operating systems, aimed to extract money from the less technically adept. That's not for me, the IT professional.

      But it's a pity that people's experience with computers hasn't been good because their only option (as if they have one) is Windows.

    2. Peter Brooks 1

      Re: Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot...

      One day, when the Snowden revelations finally penetrate the corporate skull, nobody will use Microsoft for anything the tiniest bit sensitive.

      Unless M$ makes DOS open source.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A bike with legs and a square frame.

    I simply don't understand why Microsoft have to spend three years reinventing the wheel ^^again^^.

    Windows 7 was a decent enough bike. It got you where you needed to go.

    Windows 8 was a bike with legs and a square frame. Why would you make that?

    So Microsoft, forget about reinventing the bike from scratch, it'll only end up needing stabilisers for the first three years. Take your old working bike out of the garage, polish it up a bit, add some fancy bells and whistles then ship it out. It's not bloody rocket science.

    1. jnemesh

      Re: A bike with legs and a square frame.

      No joke...All they REALLY needed to do was put the "back end" enhancements on a Windows 7 UI and call it a day. This is still going to be a train wreck.

  24. cipnrkorvo

    Actually it's pretty sweet

    I agree the new build is pretty buggy, and the main issue they should focus on now is stability.

    But that's normal it's a Technical Preview build.

    All in all it has a very nice feeling to it. Seems to be heading in the right direction, and its beta apps seem promising.

    Some things on my PC are actually less buggy in this Beta Windows than they were in Win 8/8.1 !

    If they stabilize the OS, and make a new Media Player that's simple and powerful, and get rid of their "Xbox Music" and "Xbox Video" players (which are way too limited), they have me convinced

  25. VinceLortho
    Linux

    Oh No!

    It's Vista 2.0! Linux wins!

    1. The FunkeyGibbon

      Re: Oh No!

      Wins how? Windows will still be the de facto standard for business.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Oh No!

        "Wins how? Windows will still be the de facto standard for business."

        I guess standards need to change then. No need to defend crappy tech. What is this...a Stockholm syndrome?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Oh No!

          Microsoft is today's IBM. No one ever gets fired for recommending Microsoft.

          (Give it time though…they soon will be)

  26. wsm

    How does that go?

    The old saying...one step forward and two steps back. The Start menu/screen can no longer be emptied so it's just a vertical column, which is all you need. If you remove what you don't want, you get empty space, kind of like the empty stare most people use when they see this result. The new grouping of start items is equally worthless as users aren't allowed to make their own categories.

    When Microsoft can no longer do an operating system that people want to use, their future is lost. Nobody really cares about their other products, except maybe Office which they are making less useful daily, and they are rapidly eliminating their core business while chasing Internet services income.

    It all brings to mind another saying: a bird in the hand...

  27. st4yr4d

    after using the first preview released I thought 'yeah this is going to be good' but since upgrading to this latest build they have again gone down the route of change and made it worse

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Entertaining to watch

    I just laugh at this Windows mess :)

  29. Graham Triggs

    I've only had a brief play with Windows 10, but I was very impressed. Yes, they need to sort the browser out. And there probably are lots of other bugs that could be addressed. But my initial impression wasn't so much about what they need to do to the OS, but that hardware manufacturers need to get their drivers ready.

  30. Rule of Thumb

    Where are the Cortina cycles coming from?

    I haven't used Cortina but Siri and "Ok Google" are unreliable for me. Often, when I actually NEED voice help (e.g., while driving) my Android phone cannot send the voice data to Google. It seems to be related to entering the nearest big city.

    So, where will the Cortina processing happen, locally or on Redmond servers? I'm sure Cortina will be cool for some use cases, but I'm pretty confident that we're seeing the evolution of the next clippy. Even for the use cases where it's a neat solution, I'll bet it's unreliable.

    1. hoverboy

      Re: Where are the Cortina cycles coming from?

      I have Cortana on my Windows Phone. At first it was a bit lame compared with 'Google Now' on my Nex7, but it has improved so rapidly it is now more or less 'Orac' (Blake's Seven Reference); it's now a noticable inconvenience to have to physically touch the phone's screen; most things I can now do just by saying 'Hey Cortana' + random command. It's amazing how much it can understand. Speech recognition is near perfect. Scary

  31. Tubz

    Fail Looming

    Anybody seeing a ME/Vista/Win8 moment on the horizon, where it's rushed out and takes another year and a SP upgrade before it is usable?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fail Looming

      You would have a point, but no SP had ever made them usable, in my opinion.

  32. WylieCoyoteUK
    FAIL

    Alphabetical list of programs with no categories?

    And no customisation.

    Who thought that was a good idea?

    Probably the same dork that programmed my car entertainment system.

    It took my carefully arranged playlists and played them alphabetically by title!

    I don't mind some people using search for everything, I just want the choice.

    Nobody two people use a PC the same way, why must they be limited to one method?

    Progress is not about removing options.

  33. mike10

    the new Windows 10 build 9926 is ugly and stupid!

    the new Start Screen are awful!, Windows 8.1 Start Screen are way better than this new nonsense!

    the persistent nameless left pane and the persistent Taskbar are plain stupid on the new Windows 10 Start Screen, they are waste of space and functions.

    and the new vertical tiling and scrolling!!! OMG are you serious Microsoft!

    they can keep all the new advancement, but they should make the Windows 10 Start Screen have the same layout of the Windows 8.1 Start Screen.

    I also liked the first WIndows 10 preview Start Menu a little bit. This one, well..... sucks.

  34. mike10

    the new Windows 10 build 9926 is ugly and stupid!

    the new Start Screen are awful!, Windows 8.1 Start Screen are way better than this new nonsense!

    the persistent nameless left pane and the persistent Taskbar are plain stupid on the new Windows 10 Start Screen, they are waste of space and functions.

    and the new vertical tiling and scrolling!!! OMG are you serious Microsoft!

    they can keep all the new advancement, but they should make the Windows 10 Start Screen have the same layout of the Windows 8.1 Start Screen.

    I also liked the first WIndows 10 preview Start Menu a little bit. This one, well..... stupid.

  35. Peter Brooks 1

    Downhill from DOS

    Why not just copy everything to the NSA to save them the bother. Windows is spyware, never trust a binary.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Downhill from DOS

      How do you compile your source? Or do you write your own C compiler in machine code?

  36. moistbuns

    It's going to be hard for Windows 10 to satisfy anyone unless Microsoft really steps up it's game. MS decided it wanted to cater for lap/desktops, tablets and phones and the answer isn't necessarily integrating all of them.

    I'm not sure what's going on inside Microsoft but you can see from Googling (or Binging, if that's your thing) "Windows concepts" that there's clearly some excellent and terrible ideas for the Windows UI out there - most of them are straight-forward and tweak the original formula closer to perfection. They are mockups that make me wonder why Microsoft never came up with them.

    Instead we're in a situation where Microsoft will pick and choose all the feedback they want and said "hey, we listened to you". What they should be doing is listening to all that feedback, adding in the options to let users choose what they want from their desktop or tablet experience.

    Meanwhile people seem to be deluded that it has to be one or the other. Windows 8 doesn't demonstrate that users won't let go of old ways - it demonstrates that Microsoft is capable of making terrible design decisions.

    At the end of the day Microsoft aren't far off something that could satisfy both end-users if they just added in options to tweak the interface bit-by-bit, with a consistent and good-looking design language. You only have to go as far as image search to see how Microsoft could be capable of offering a rich desktop within a Metro-style design language.

  37. Yorkshen

    Windows 10 is definitely at the moment the winner into "The Most Ugly OS" competition.

    Even some of the "hand made" Unix developer gave up on their ugly, awkward looking creations during this competitions, because we can clearly see the winner.

    Microsoft - Are You hearing the screams of the users, which is falling around screaming - "NOO, I CAN'T TOOK ANY MORE METRO-ALIKE HTML5 CRAP UGLINESS" !?

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