back to article Movie industry's evil plan to destroy the internet is going precisely nowhere

As well as finding out that Jennifer Lawrence earns less than her male counterparts, Hollywood studio execs are self-important a-holes and Sony Pictures has a password policy that a baby could break ... it turns out movie giants are also seeking to DESTROY THE INTERNET with a ten-page legal memo. The memo [PDF], written by …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It is more complicated than that

    The original design for DNS does not do what they are trying to twist it into.

    However, a number of SPs are trying to manipulate DNS in a way which stops being mere propagation of "routing information".

    While it should not apply to basic DNS services, I would not be so sure as far as applicability of this to a SP which has deployed a DNS bastardization scheme. There is nothing new here by the way - it is part of the normal due diligence analysis on deploying harebrained DNS bastardization - if you touch it in any manner you open the flood gates for requests to manipulate it to one or another person's advantage. The constant attempts to subvert the UK DNS based anti-child-abuse system to do all kinds of censorship are a testament to that.

    1. Wzrd1

      Re: It is more complicated than that

      From a legal standpoint, it's even more complicated than that.

      First, the ISP's have safe harbor law that protects them from such nonsensical and technologically impossible demands.

      Second, opening them up to liability for traffic that they're paid to provide would also open up states to criminal liability for any and all crimes that the criminal used a toll road to get to or from the scene of a crime.

  2. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Devil

    "Go to an IETF meeting and persuade the technical community to develop a new DNS code"

    This sounds like a job for... NetMundial.

    1. Ole Juul Silver badge

      Re: "Go to an IETF meeting and persuade the technical community to develop a new DNS code"

      Except NetMundial is currently at a very low level of persuadicity.

  3. Phil_Evans

    Control your media better.

    The hard-pressed Movie Industry should make more of an effort to protect it's investments in the first place. Instead of plying wares on every available format, why not up-scale cinemas to stream content to screens just like the rest of us plebs? Why not just ditch formats that are so easily copied and prevent the revenue loss in the first place? Make content available exclusively as streams?

    Oh, what was that? Most of your revenues are made on formats that are easily ripped, then posted to pirate streaming sites? Well, stop doing it then :-)

    TV production is streets ahead of this, albeit with proprietary players but at least their production is protected better and then typically released on viewer ratings when broadcast saturation has been reached.

    It's a decrepit old man (industry) shouting at the world. It (Sony, et al) needs new tricks.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Control your media better.

      NOTE: Consider a Sarcasm Mode or Joke Alert in your comment.

      "Why not up-scale cinemas to stream content to screens just like the rest of us plebs?"

      They're actually working on that. Many upscale theaters are actually film-free. They download the movies off dedicated private connections to local storage. As I recall, it's in a proprietary format that doesn't translate well and they make sure the movies can't be bummed off the connections in transit or the servers at rest.

      "Oh, what was that? Most of your revenues are made on formats that are easily ripped, then posted to pirate streaming sites? Well, stop doing it then :-)"

      As I recall, that isn't true. Mainstream cinema goes through a number of specific stages of release, with home video being towards the bottom of the chain. First it's theaters, then theater-like firms like cinema cafes, prisons, and airlines where revenue is still generated per view, then pay-per-view and on-demand systems, and so on. Rentals (in this case, Redbox and BBX) tend to coincide with home video due to the common medium so it's not a big benefit to them anymore.

      One of the bigger problems for the movie companies, particularly in lower-end market, is the screener who records the movie as it plays in the theater. The quality is crap but it's quick, and since it happens during the key box office stage, this has the potential to hurt. Since you have to be able to see and hear the movie to enjoy it, it's always possible to record it, particularly using newer covert cameras hidden in prescription eyeglass frames (prescriptions mean they can't be forced off).

      1. chris 17 Bronze badge

        Re: Control your media better.

        Studios already have very tight control over playback of current releases in cinems

        its called Digital Cinema Initiatives

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinema#How_digital_cinema_works

        no license no play, 1 license per play, file is encrypted and can only be decrypted with a valid licence. Its not like anyone can just steal the file from teh DCI server and play it, you need to hack into the movie studio and rip the unencrypted file to do that.

      2. Bruce Ordway

        Re: Control your media better.

        >>They're actually working on that. Many upscale theaters are actually film-free.

        >>They download the movies off dedicated private connections to local storage.

        By coincidence I was given access to a projection room a few week ago.

        I saw the device that held the movie, looked like some sort of drive.

        The guy said that after they are delivered to the theater, he had to get codes entered by a techs at a remote support network.

        I remember he was pretty adamant in stating that content never traveled over a network.

        It would have been interesting to know more but... he was an old projectionist, not that familiar with all the workings of the new technology.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Control your media better.

          "I remember he was pretty adamant in stating that content never traveled over a network."

          As I understand it, it IS an option (for locations with high-speed data connections), but the preferred method is by external hard drives. I recall the keys can also be sent by a USB dongle. Still makes me wonder if they've been careful about potential exploit entry points via USB and so on.

          1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

            Re: Control your media better.

            But if a film is being shipped on HDD, at sufficient resolution for screen projection, the data must still be massive, and thus would be difficult to discretly slurp off the drive (just my presumption, mind you).

            OTOH: with theatres splitting their multi-multiplexes into smaller and smaller rooms, and home TVs becoming larger and larger, I expect the two will converge sometime soon. So they'll be able to work off the same storage/stream <g>.

        2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          Re: Control your media better.

          "The guy said that after they are delivered to the theater, he had to get codes entered by a techs at a remote support network."

          I imagine each theater gets a differently watermarked (and differently coded) movie, so that if it *does* escape then the studios know who to kill.

          1. heyrick Silver badge

            Re: Control your media better.

            "I imagine each theater gets a differently watermarked (and differently coded) movie, so that if it *does* escape then the studios know who to kill."

            If I remember correctly, it is called something like "cinavia" and is some sort of ID code hidden in the soundtrack. As an added benefit, some domestic playback devices are designed to detect this and stop playing, so if stuff recorded in a cinema is downloaded, it won't work...well, that's the theory. Don't know how it plays out in real life.

            Ah, just looked it up. Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia (looks like it should be quite resilient)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Control your media better.

      If I went to the police and complained that people kept walking into my house through the front door that had no locks on it or through the windows that had no glass in them and stealing things then I don't think they'd be too impressed. It is the duty of property owners to take all reasonable steps to secure their own property before they have recourse to law enforcement, and the entertainment industry has failed utterly in this over the years.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Control your media better.

        But at least you can lock the front door when you're out. What if you're a business that requires an open front door to operate? IOW, where the means of doing business is also the means your business is walking out the door?

        1. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: Control your media better.

          I think you just discovered shoplifting. Do what the shops do; take realistic precautions and factor-in the loss.

          1. GSystems

            Re: Control your media better.

            "I think you just discovered shoplifting. Do what the shops do; take realistic precautions and factor-in the loss."

            EXACTLY!

            This is, supposedly, the reason for the exorbitant sum needed to see a movie from the get-go. Remember?

            Now, this artificially inflated price is taken as the "Free-Market cost of cinema" and the complaints about piracy resurface... Meanwhile, in research-land, the actually cost of piracy is still up in the air and the quality of the movies continue to decline, while the complaints of "piracy" remain as strong as ever...

            Thus, we're already paying for piracy...and paying for piracy...and paying for piracy...lol

      2. Chad H.

        Re: Control your media better.

        >>>>>If I went to the police and complained that people kept walking into my house through the front door that had no locks on it or through the windows that had no glass in them and stealing things then I don't think they'd be too impressed. It is the duty of property owners to take all reasonable steps to secure their own property

        But this does not change the fact that it still is theft, and still is a crime.

      3. Jess

        Re: Control your media better.

        DRM actively discourages me from buying things.

        I have never purchased a DRMed download (I have got a couple of free ones.)

        I avoided bluray for a long time, until I found a high end one in a charity shop for £25

        I only buy cheap second hand BDs precisely because of the DRM. (I think I may have forked out £8 for Thor 2, but most are much cheaper, and a resale is no income to the studios anyway)

        I would quite happily pay the asking price for new BD of movies I really liked, if they did not have DRM.

      4. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: AC Re: Control your media better.

        ".... It is the duty of property owners to take all reasonable steps to secure their own property before they have recourse to law enforcement...." Rubbish! Legally, I can leave my doors wide open and even put my wallet on my front lawn, and whilst the coppers may think I'm an idiot for doing so, it makes not one jot of difference either when they charge you for trespass and theft or when you go to court. Similarly, if you copy a copyrighted DVD or CD, you are the criminal and your crime is not the fault of the distributor that put the material on an easily copied DVD.

    3. thomas k.

      Re: Control your media better.

      You mean, like, with a DRM scheme of some sort? That worked really well for the music industry, didn't it?

      Not really meaning to be sarcastic here and certainly, in general, no defender of the movie industry and their absurd business practices but I have to admit that this is a kind of Catch 22 for them.

      The studios have every right to try and protect their IP, but if they add stringent DRM, legitimate consumers (who *should* have the right to make copies their purchased media so they can play it on any device they own), as well as freetards, will bitch to high heaven, complain that it's pointless as the DRM will eventually be broken, etc, etc.

      With the wide availability of stream-capture software, it's hard to see a streaming-only solution being the answer.

      Couple of obvious suggestions to ease the losses due to piracy:

      > lower prices on the product so people are more willing to buy it, rather than pirate it

      > make better movies

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Control your media better.

        "lower prices on the product so people are more willing to buy it, rather than pirate it"

        You would think they optimized the selling price so as to get the optimum total bucks from the deal. There's a balancing point between revenues from quantity and revenues per customer. After all, 1 customer @ $100 grosses you the same amount as 10 @ $10 and may even be a net benefit due to reduced per-customer overheads (cleaning, maintenance, etc.). If people and freetards are complaining, perhaps the price offered is not the comfort zone for them, but it's likely the comfort zone for enough people.

        "make better movies"

        Again, they're making what the consumers want. Not their fault the connoisseurs have a more-sensitive taste. If prole trash makes the big bucks, then the snobs are out-voted.

        PS. Movie companies will always complain. Any business that caters to the consumer will complain since theft, piracy, fraud, etc. is a cost of doing business. And common business sense is to control costs as best you can. So if they're bitching about piracy and so on, you won't silence them; it's their fiduciary duty to complain and get some help on the matter if they can.

        1. thomas k.

          Re: better movies

          When I say "make better movies", I'm including prole trash in that, not just make more artsy-fartsy stuff.

          I like prole trash just as much as the next person - not everything can be Citizen Kane, nor does it need to be in order to entertain.

          I was thinking, in this particular, of Aaron Eckhardt's Frankenstein movie - total waste of $1.50 and 2 hours I'll never get back.

          One can't help but imagine all involved in this (and similar projects), on seeing daily rushes early on, saying, "Um, it's not turning out quite like we pictured it but ... well, fuck it, in for a penny, in for a pound." Nobody sets out to make a bad movie except, of course, Uwe Bohl.

          1. heyrick Silver badge

            Re: better movies

            " total waste of $1.50 "

            Only a dollar fifty? Maybe the price should have been a clue...

            1. thomas k.

              Re: better movies

              Redbox rental. Would've felt even more ripped off if I'd spent $8.50 to see it in a theatre.

      2. Wade Burchette
        Joke

        Re: Control your media better.

        @thomas k:

        Make better movies! That is crazy talk! Now if you will excuse me, I will go make a superhero movie with $200 million in CGI and forget to have a plot or hire good actors. A good plot and a good story is hard work, I hate hard work. I rather replace those things with lots of sex, lots of cursing, extreme violence, and CGI to get people in the seats. And if people fail to show up, I will just blame piracy like I always do. It must be pirates. Why wouldn't everybody want to see my violent sexy movie with no story or plot? Why wouldn't everybody want to see yet another superhero movie? I will tell you why, because pirates are stealing my movies and people watch them at home, that is why. Hollywood is blessed, we can do no wrong.

        1. W T Riker

          Re: Control your media better.

          The movie industry should make it difficult to copy content by making 4D movies (otherwise known as smelly-vision) or 5D (add rain, wind, snow etc).

  4. jake Silver badge

    Every time I point this fact out ...

    ... I get many down-votes from the proletariat.

    1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Every time I point this fact out ...

      I have no idea what fact jake is referring to here, but I upvoted him just to be contrary.

  5. Wattsy

    Perhaps if they made things cheaper and easier then that will have a knock on effect of slowing down pirate activity.

    Cinema's are stupidly expensive (but people will still pay!) and all the extras associated with going to the cinema (3D addon, food, drinks etc.) are also priced so steep that a normal family needs to spend over £50 to see one film. Perhaps dropping the price back to 4 or 5 quid a film and then some sensible pricing on food stuff will help encourage us back to the cinema. I used to enjoy a weekly jaunt to the cinema with friends but it's to expensive now to justify.

    Streaming a film depends on multiple providers, that means multiple accounts all taking their monthly subscription for the end user to watch maybe one or two films a week. What would help would be one account to watch any film from any provider that gets billed either by subscription or PAYG and that also needs to be Cheap! (£1.99 for a one off or a £10 a month for any age film). The problem with that is the likes of Sony et all will need to work together, and we KNOW that won't happen now.

    I would be happy to pay a few quid to watch a new film on my own TV when ever I wanted to. Its not about being lazy its about convenience.

    1. Wade Burchette

      I do not fault the movie theater for the price. Here in the US, the first two weeks a movie is out, most of the ticket revenue go straight to the studio. After that, the theater gets most of the ticket revenue. For that reason, I generally make it a point to see a movie a few weeks after it has been released. Without the popcorn and sodas, most cinemas would go under real quick.

    2. Frankee Llonnygog

      Ungrateful

      What's wrong with the new open access movie distribution mechanism just being trialled by Sony? Coming soon to Warner Bros, et al

    3. chris 17 Bronze badge

      @Wattsy

      Its called Sky Movies, many many channels of movies all for a monthly fee

  6. Khaptain Silver badge

    Alternative solution

    Why don't we just change all the DNS entries for Sony. If they can't be found, then a lot of people would be extremely happy.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Alternative solution

      "Why don't we just change all the DNS entries for Sony. If they can't be found, then a lot of people would be extremely happy."

      If they couldn't have been found Sony would have been extremely happy now. Or at least less unhappy than they now are.

  7. phil dude
    Facepalm

    saturation....

    We live in a saturated age. This implicitly puts all new releases in the anti-value category i.e. it isn't worth anything until you sell it.

    And there's the rub. I have watched "The Avengers" perhaps 10 times on Netflix. At least once in the theatre and I might end up buying the media (so I can move it to my disk and get better than Netflix quality).

    The point is, that makes me less likely to watch the other 99% of the complete crap they release (beauty might be in the eye of the beholder but the sheer volume of effluent that is produced, suggests they are deliberately trying spaghetti productions i.e. see what sticks and make 2 more sequels.).

    And for all the IT people here , here's my Gedanken experiment of the day. Starting from no-DNS at all, how long would it take the world to re-peer itself?

    My estimate would be 2 hours for big uni's and labs, 4 hours for companies, and perhaps 2 weeks all the world.

    Any better ones?

    P.

    1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

      Re: saturation....

      > I have watched "The Avengers" perhaps 10 times on Netflix. At least once in the theatre and

      > I might end up buying the media (so I can move it to my disk and get better than Netflix quality).

      Well, probably saw every episode of The Avengers a few times, and have the Emma Peel box set of DVDs, which I'm watching now....

      Oh, you weren't talking about *that* Avengers????

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My tuppence worth....

    How about giving up the expensive cocaine & drugs fuelled lifestyle by the studios bosses and artists?

    Message for MPAA and RIAA :

    Computers and internet & connectivity are here to stay and the new generation needs instant gratifications. So unless you have something compelling to offer at reasonable prices on the preferred devices, GO FUCK YOURSELVES !

    You are already chasing a shrinking pie and the outputs from movies and music studios is dire. After all how many animation films do we need with sequels? Most of them repeats of the same themes?

    Glad that TV producers are at least dishing our varied stuff, and thanks xbmc and all other streamers ! Movies is not the only things people watch on the internet.

    Go figure.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My tuppence worth....

      "You are already chasing a shrinking pie and the outputs from movies and music studios is dire. After all how many animation films do we need with sequels? Most of them repeats of the same themes?"

      If the output's so dire, how come box office records are still being broken? There must be something in these movies and sequels that make people buy that doesn't attract you specifically. Unfortunately, you seem to be outvoted.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: My tuppence worth....

        If they are setting box office records, what the hell are they complaining about?

        The whole discussion becomes a non-starter !

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: My tuppence worth....

          They're complaining that they're not getting as much as they figure they can get. It's like expecting a box of donuts to have the baker's dozen of 13 but only getting 12. It doesn't matter that they're setting records because they want to break those records even higher. Piracy to them is a controllable cost so they're going to work on it regardless of the return.

        2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: My tuppence worth....

          If they are setting box office records, what the hell are they complaining about? The whole discussion becomes a non-starter !

          This has been explained multiple times in this forum and in many other places, but clearly some readers still do not get it.

          In capitalism, there is a thing. It is called "investment", and it involves spending some money to see if spending more money would bring in greater returns, in sufficient numbers that there would be a net profit from the effort. (A few economists have discussed the subject, including that Marx fellow.)

          Paying some lawyers to see if you can close a non-profitable channel is an investment. If it looks feasible, then you invest a bit more to see whether there's a good chance that closing that channel would increase volume in your profitable channels. If that looks good, then you invest more money in actually trying to do it.

          Your current profits are irrelevant, except insofar as they help pay for those investments. ("Help" because other sources of capital are available, obviously.) It doesn't matter whether you're doing well or barely scraping by; the whole fucking point of capitalism is to keep investing and trying to increase profits.

          All of the rambling about price structures and content quality and distribution schedules and DRM and the like in this forum and the many, many others like it is irrelevant to this point. If the content producers and their industry associations see a possible route to increased profit, they'll investigate it. There are relevant discussions to be had about fiduciary duty and business ethics and public perception, but they are secondary to the basic thesis.

  9. my fingers stuck
    Linux

    isp's are at fault?

    hold on, isp's are being blamed for what their clients do whilst using their services,

    by the same logic I am going to sue the toll road company who took money from a user of their services, who went on to break into my home and remove my property.

  10. 080

    Exaggerated Losses

    I really don't believe that the amount claimed to be lost to pirating could ever be recovered, the content is so dire that if the pirates had to pay for it they would not bother.

    In the last 8 weeks I have spent 50 hours in the air and have not been able to find one watchable film so not only will I not be paying I won't even bother to pirate.

    1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Exaggerated Losses

      Sigh. The content producers and distributors have everything to gain by inflating their claims of losses. Of course they're exaggerated. Does anyone believe otherwise? Is it really necessary for a dozen people to make this argument in response to every story about "piracy"?

      Yes, of course it is. How silly of me to ask. Carry on.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Indeed exaggertaed - Check this out. Makes you wonder what theyre thinking

    http://www.ted.com/talks/rob_reid_the_8_billion_ipod?language=en

  12. ecofeco Silver badge

    They really don't "get it"

    The current aristocracy really does NOT understand what the Internet is and that they are NOT going to control it.

    No matter WHO they are. (yes, this means you too Google)

    Of course it isn't going to stop them from trying and making the rest of us miserable in the meantime.

  13. Rick Giles
    Trollface

    They can't have it both ways

    "...the legal language around telecommunications."

    If ISP's fall under telecommunications, according to the MPAA, then Net Nuetrallity has won.

    Some one tell the FCC and Comcrap...

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cheaper content

    Multi formats, ubiquitous delivery modes.

    No geo blocking.

    Sell more shit.

    Make more $$$

    Easy.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Cheaper content

      Guess you've never heard of "captive markets" before.

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Cheaper content

      What a happy day it will be when all businesses are run according to the wisdom of anonymous Internet commentators!

      Why this pool of genius talent spends its time posting to online forums is beyond me. Surely you have corporate boards to pitch to?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cheaper content

        Fine.

        Let the studios keep on flogging that particular deceased equine.

        There are answers to the problem.

        If only they weren't so dogmatic.

        "On Dec. 8, one day before the raid on The Pirate Bay, a total of 101.8 million Internet users torrented files being tracked by anti-piracy firm Excipio. These files including movies, music, games and other digital media. For the next three days, the number of users downloading these types of files dropped down to around 95 million, before bouncing right back to 100.2 million on Dec. 12.

        This highlights the fact that merely shutting down a file-sharing site will have almost no effect on online piracy. Not only that, but rival site IsoHunt said that it had copied The Pirate Bay's search engine catalog and links, effectively being able to recreate the service."

        REF - http://www.techtimes.com/articles/22670/20141223/shutdown-pirate-bay-nothing-heres-why.htm

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