back to article Behold the Lumia 535 NOTkia: Microsoft wipes Nokia brand from mobes

Microsoft is finally putting its own brand on the phones it makes and sells itself. The Windows giant's latest Lumia 535 drops the Nokia branding completely – as expected – and will instead sport a proud "Microsoft" front and rear. The device itself is unremarkable except for a very aggressive price: it's a mere €110 (£86) …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Meh

    Why are Microsoft even trying. I have only ever seen 1 real person with a Windows phone...

    Their lack of apps, lack of customisation, overhyped camera performance that seriously under delivers, and bug ridden OS means that the only people that end up with them, are truly the mungnuts in this world, that walk into a phone shop as asked to be sold whatever is left-over.

    1. Kevoc

      Re: Meh

      Speaking as one of the 'mungnuts' who purchased a 520 last year I have to disagree somewhat on your observations on the Windows Phone. I haven't felt the need to install every last app under the sun, so I'm quite happy with the quantity of apps on offer. Customisation? Never been up there on my list of priorities. I've never been under the impression that my phones camera is ever going to take any award winning pictures, but I can't fault it for what it does. The OS is rock solid - I've never had any issues with bugs - both with versions 8 and 8.1 of the OS.

      Ah yes. Us mungnuts.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Meh

        Feel like I need to join you in defending against the ramblings of the ill-informed.

        I've had a 1020 for the last few months and it is the only phone I've ever had that I am actually pretty enthusiastic about.

        My previous Androids all did the job until they ran out of storage (HTC Desire) or the latest Android update rendered the battery unable to last half a day (HTC One X). Add on to that the inability to unload all the crapware that gets bundled with the phone and the tendency of aforementioned crapware to start up at random and suck on my battery life,

        WinPho has all the apps I need, but the wife stuck with Android as it was missing some she needed so app selection is very much in the YMMV category.

        Build quality is rock solid.

        Battery on moderate use will easily go more than a full day.

        The OS has never crashed, not even when running Windows 8.1 Developer Preview. My wife's Android however, and mine but to a much lesser extent, crashed on an almost daily basis.

        The physical camera and associated apps are excellent and give me far better quality images than I will ever really need.

        There are a number of other nice features such as a Kids Corner so I can hand the phone to the kids and they will only have access to their apps and nothing else.

        If you want a phone that is simple to setup/use and just works, WinPho beats Android in many respects. If you tinker with your phone, then you're better off with Android.

        The 'it's Windows, therefore it sucks' posts are getting really old now.

        1. Bleu

          Re: Meh

          You can activate the gadgets for switching programs off or download programs to do the same thing at task level on Android even without getting root.

          Agree with most of your comments, though.

      2. h4rm0ny

        Re: Meh

        I've had a Lumia 820 for quite a while and have never understood this argument about lack of apps. It comes with pretty much everything I need already installed. Add a fitness app (plenty of those) and I'm pretty much covered. Apps developed because phones didn't have full browser functionality. The Windows Phone has that and consequently I need almost no specialist apps for any services - I just use their website.

        The only group of people I see as suffering from a lack of apps are those who want to play lots of new games on their phone, that's it. I'm curious to know from one of the critics what large lack they see in apps on the Windows Phone. Perhaps someone here could enlighten us "mungnuts" which I assume is something like mungbeans, but really don't care to know.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Meh

        I guess you have never used the phone in anger then. Never seen a Windows Phone that's been capable of not dropping out audio when playing to a bluetooth speaker (or headphones), they all randomly reboot several times a week, the proximity sensors simply don't work. Don't expect to be able to phone banking with the key tones, you will end up throwing it in the trash, as it can't work out it's not next to your head any longers.

        It's cheap crap. Landfill Windows Phone if you will.

        1. h4rm0ny

          Re: Meh

          >>"I guess you have never used the phone in anger then. Never seen a Windows Phone that's been capable of not dropping out audio when playing to a bluetooth speaker (or headphones), they all randomly reboot several times a week, the proximity sensors simply don't work. Don't expect to be able to phone banking with the key tones, you will end up throwing it in the trash, as it can't work out it's not next to your head any longers."

          None of that has been true of my WP8 device which I have been using for quite a long time (over a year, at least). That's the problem with posts like yours - when there were very few WP devices around, you could get away with it because people didn't have direct experience. Now there are loads of us who know for a fact that what you say isn't true of our experiences. Why the hate and mud-slinging?

        2. Babbit55

          Re: Meh

          Having had my 520 for well over a year now with the Dev preview I have yet to come across any of the issues you have had there. I used to use android and my work phone is an iPhone 4s, I can confidently say with the experience using winphone it is easily the best smart phone i have owned and I plan to upgrade to the 535 as for the price that looks amazing.

          Try owing a winphone before hating on them just because it is cool to hate Microsoft

        3. Matt_payne666

          Re: Meh

          Yes, proximity sensors do go nuts with a screen protector, they sorted that on the 920, but havemt fixed it on my 930, this is a pain, but a snip of screen protector material' and its fine again, not perfect, but its not the end of the world...

          This 930 is my second windows phone and I am more than happy with it, I can use tones fine with most telephone services, well, I haven't found one that doesn't work - the caveat is having the sensor issue addressed. It has randomly restarted, but then the iPhones that I've owned for 4 years have all done that and my partners iphone sometimes requires a reset to resurrect it.

          Customisation? What are you comparing it to? An iphone? Which allows you to change the background and that's all? Can you resize an icon? Can you group notifications from a VIP? Can you see at a glance emails from several different accounts without opening an app or using a notification centre? no other phone allows the level of customisation that you can achieve on a windows phone.

          My windows phone is able to use the microphone inside my Bluetooth speaker, the iphone cant. I can't think of any tome the winphones have disconnected from a Bluetooth speaker or had dropouts with the car hands free... in fact the car mode and quiet hours features are something that I really value, over and above the extra apps that are available. But each to their own...

          No, there aren't many in the wild, but they are there.... but like my cars, I don't follow the sheep and like a little individually... the supermarket car park is full of black VW golfs of some description, they work well, hold their value, but are mind numbingly samey.

        4. hoverboy

          Re: Meh

          Trolling troller is a troll. No food from me tonight, troll

        5. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Meh

          Try a £99 Android phone for comparison.

        6. Ian Case

          Re: Meh

          I got a 520 as a second phone last year. So far I've used it in anger in the UK and 'down under' no issues at all.

          Good quality calls, certainly not dropped any, and the sat nav alone saved me a small fortune in rip off charges from car hire companies.

          Then again I've never obsessed over brands. If it does what you need its good.

        7. Danny 5

          Re: Meh

          And another one talking out of his arse.

          I use Bluetooth audio at home and in my car, it *always* works and sounds great. My phone has been working continuously for the past several months. Last reboot was initiated by myself, an app was misbehaving (nothing to do with the phone, or the OS).

          I use phone banking on an almost daily basis and the problems you describe simply don't happen.

          I don't believe a word you're saying and I seriously doubt you actually ever owned or used a winphone.

          I hate Apple, I love bashing them, but I stay away from topics I'm not 100% sure about and I do appreciate that some people love their devices (heck, I even advised my mom to get an Iphone, as I thought it would be the right device for her). Perhaps you should do the same?

          1. Stacy

            Re: Meh

            I loved my Windows Phone (Lumia 820). It was easy to use, even though the screen resulution sucked (my choice, I could have got a better one but did not want to spend the money on the day) the software used it in such a way that you really did not notice that much and it was reliable.

            The only reason I got rid of it was that we replaced our boiler and the new one came with a smart thermostat. Which needs an app. Which was not in the store. Normally I would say that there are no apps that are deal breakers, but in this case...

            Hopefully Bosch will release one for WP and I can go back to it with my next phone!

      4. john 19
        Linux

        Re: Meh

        Well, if you are happy with just the basic apps you can get a firefoxOS phone instead, why go for microsoft?

      5. IsJustabloke Silver badge

        Re: Meh

        I always thought mungnuts were a type of Edamame

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Meh

        this sounds like OS/2. People say it runs great and has enough apps to be useful but hardly anybody is using it. The company behind it can't figure out what it's really good for so the marketing is all over the place.

        But I think OS/2 had better market share numbers.

        1. dogged

          Re: Meh

          > But I think OS/2 had better market share numbers.

          More people have a Windows Phone than use any variety of OSX.

          But you carry on. Keep telling yourself about market share, I'm sure it gives you a nice chubby.

    2. Bod

      Re: Meh

      Seen plenty. Not the majority, but I know many who have them (all Nokia) and reasons being are...

      * Cheap

      * Reliable

      * Great build quality

      * Better battery life than Android

      * Excellent camera

      All depends what you want from a phone really. Some are not fussed about having millions of utterly garbage apps available to install, or want to bling their phone up with Bieber customisations. They just want a phone to actually, you know, call people, and that has a few of the social app bits, email, and not much else.

      Typical customers are people looking for cheap, students, kids, but also a lot of older folk who find Android just a bit overwhelming with too many features and customisations or differences between each brand. I recommended a Lumia to my parents for this very reason.

      Not saying I'm a fan, and I'm on Android myself at the moment but it's only a few apps missing that stop me from switching. I was a long time Nokia fan and still much prefer their build quality and battery life so I'd love to switch back. Except they're not Nokia any more.

      And can't say from what I've used of Windows Phone that it's bug ridden. Plenty of bugs in my Android phone though.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Meh "They just want a phone to actually, you know, call people,"

        This is definitely a declining demographic.

    3. Shagbag

      Re: Meh

      It no secret that in the mobile phone market, Microsoft are the 'bottom feeders'. The only commercial success they've managed in smartphones is at the 'budget' end of the spectrum. They know it and everyone else knows it. Which is why they've announced the Lumia 535 as the first 'Microsoft' branded smartphone and not made some Quixotic play for dominance with a 'high-end' Lumia device as the first 'Microsoft' branded smartphone. To try and fault Microsoft for playing to their strengths is misdirected.

    4. Youngdog

      Re: Meh

      Well, the only Lumia 520 I have ever seen in the wild was the one my Mum got from Virgin Mobile as replacement for her previous handset.

      By the time I got down there she had connected to her wi-fi for browsing, started adding contacts and already made phone calls. She's 68. Only things I had to do was set her data to wi-fi only and rearrange the tiles. The biggest surprise for me however was how much it made iOS on my iPhone 5s look so old hat.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Meh

        Both Android and the iOS UI is old hat.

        The idea of skeuomorphism is about 20 years past its sell by date. On iOS the icons at least look vaguely uniform, on Android they're ugly and all over the shop.

        Tiles beat icons by a mile. Not to mention the tile can be resized and what information can be display varies depending on size. Plus some of them flip over and show other useful information.

    5. Danny 5
      FAIL

      Re: Meh

      Hater's gonna hate eh?

      I have a Lumia 1020 and it's a great device. The camera is still the best you can get and when it was new, it amazed reviewers. Lumia camera's have been proben to be among the best, so if you say they're crap, you're talking out of your arse.

      Bug ridden OS? please specify those bugs. I'm on my second winphone and am yet to encounter any serious bugs, so please tell me what bugs you refer to (talking our of your arse again).

      lack of customization? and what exactly would you want to customize? I find the level of customization possibilities to be more then sufficient.

      lack of apps? Perhaps that's the only valid point you made, though I have a hard time believing that an app landscape containing hundreds of millions of apps is better then one that "only" has tens of millions.

      You sir, are a hater.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Meh

      Not a fan, or owner for that matter, of a WP device, but I certainly don't consider their users mungnuts (whatever that means) They are simply people that look for some specific qualities on a device and the Nokia offerings provides these. Same for BlackBerry users. What's so wrong with that?

    7. Bleu

      Re: Meh

      Not a great fan of Microsoft in general: except their few genuine innovations, DirectX, DLLs, object linking and embedding, sure, the latter now leads to idiots making unreadable spreadsheets that have nothing to do with what a spreadsheet is for, and Microsoft didn't invent the DLL concept, but they did lead the way in introducing it.

      I prefer OpenGL, but it wouldn't be what it is without concepts from DirectX,

      but really, who cares how many 'apps' they carry for their phones?

      This looks like fair value for the many fbook, twit, instagram addicts of the world.

      I have found precisely one Android 'app' so far that I am really interested in downloading and paying for, but won't do so until I see a much better description of its specs.

      Games? I still prefer to carry a separate machine for that, I am sure there must be exceptions, but I see Android and iPhone games people are playing on trains, just a mindless distraction for two minutes, generally graphic design with no character, very low difficulty. I see DS and PSP games, some look interesting.

      1. eulampios

        @Bleu on DLLs innovation

        >>except their few genuine innovations, DirectX, DLLs, object linking and embedding

        Although you might be using incorrect punctuation and colons are intended somewhere, I'd appreciate if you could share with everyone what exactly innovative was there about the DLLs, object linking and embedding. As for the Dynamic Linking, it's been first implemented even before Unix, since Multics, if I remember correctly.

        1. Hans 1 Silver badge

          Re: @Bleu on DLLs innovation

          That and DirectX sucks big time ... the sooner that goes, the better for makind.

    8. xyz

      Re: Meh

      I've got a 925 and I love it. Music is free and the TV app I got from the store for free is awesome (I can watch free live F1 in Russian or Spanish). Lucky I've got all you can eat data as a race is over a gig's worth of slurp. Satnav built in and a pukka camera. My GF has an iPhone 5s and it looks old fashioned and clunky and is as fast as a pensioner with a dodgy knee. We both hate it. I've got a Droid 4.1 tablet and I way prefer the Win 8.1 interface, so Master Troll sling yer hook.

    9. Vince

      Re: Meh

      "Why are Microsoft even trying. I have only ever seen 1 real person with a Windows phone..."

      Can't have been looking very hard. I'd say there are increasing numbers of them around the place.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Meh

        I see more Series 40 Nokia in use than WP - everything else is either iOS or Droid...

    10. TechnicalBen Silver badge

      Re: Meh

      They seem good, but have 2 flaws that prevent me from a purchase.

      1) Too small text/fonts. Can't read a thing on them, the GUI is wonderful, but text on them is so small, I wonder if it was made for ANTS.

      2) No direct access to memory/SD cards. I've started to give up on SD card slots on some devices, but I'd still like some real "HDD" and file structure emulation. This will become less so with cloud backup, but nothing beats having a memory card in my pocket for quick and reliable data/transfers.

      Oh, and it's Microsoft... but I've got no real hate for their hardware/software combos. :P

      1. Disco Dance Donkey

        Re: Meh

        Crashes less than iOS and is as simple/straightforward to use. If I find I'm lacking an app I'll write it (although Rudy Huyn is doing a good job bettering other apps). Camera beats the spots off Samsung. Build quality is second to none.

        What is interesting, having used both a 520 and a 925, is that a 520 is surprisingly good. Really, it is. The screen difference is ignorable, its performance is great and the only really discerning points are the cameras. Oh, and my technophobic partner can quite happily use one. My only issue is that when I force her to upgrade she'll be moving to an 8X0 for the camera button.

        @TechnicalBen

        1) Swipe the screen down, hit all settings, scroll down 3/4 of the list, hit *ease of access* and you've got a slider, you can pick your own text size.

        2) Click Store, type "Files", install to give you on phone access. Plug the phone in and it uses MTP which is even good enough for the car stereo in my economically priced car. Also, you have their touch sharing and beamer software...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Meh

        Plenty of options in the accessibility settings. There's even a zoom function.

    11. Saint Gerbil

      Re: Meh

      Depending where you are in the world Windows Phone does up to 30% of the market. Sure its the underdog but as an OS its quite good and the major flaw in the space is the lack of app support but unfortunately that's a Chicken and Egg situation.

    12. John Lilburne Silver badge

      Re: Meh

      This Nokia 6030 (c2005) that I carry, makes and receives calls, sends and receives text messages, if I leave it on permanently the battery last a week. The wife has some Samsung S3 thing which I don't see does anything more useful than the 6030. And yeah I know all about app for this and app for that, but really if you actually need any of that your life is really fucked up.

      Now various colleagues have tried showing me differently but whenever they try, the thing they are trying to demonstrate either doesn't work or is so cumbersome its useless, or they can't connect to the wifi/web, or they discover they are about to run out of battery.

    13. proud2bgrumpy

      Re: Meh

      @AC

      "Why are Microsoft even trying. I have only ever seen 1 real person with a Windows phone..."

      Because without Windows Phone, the next generation of IT decision-makers will grow up using Phones and Tablets based on Android(Linux) or iOS - neither of which is MS - home PCs usually PCs in the past are being sidelined by Tablets and the future decision makers will buy what they know...

  2. ZSn

    Pricing

    Interesting pricing going on right now. This seems to undercut it's siblings while offering more. Also, for example, here in Europe, the Lumia 830 is only 40 euros more than the Lumi 730 while offering significantly more, even the Lumia 925 is cheaper than the 730! It seems that there will be worthy phones that are not going to sell because the price point is wrong...

    When will we get a hands on?

  3. RyokuMas Silver badge
    Stop

    Conspicuous by absence...

    "Microsoft's brand has consistently ranked higher than Nokia's (according to Interbrand anyway) and over 110m Xbox consoles have been sold"

    Except that Xboxes (360s at least, not yet seen an XB1 in the flesh) aren't conspicuously stamped with "Microsoft". In fact, there are many who claim that the reason the Xbox has enjoyed the success it has is because of its separation from the Microsoft name.

    Perhaps if this - and all Windows Phones - had been marketed as the "XPhone" to be a companion device to the Xbox then maybe the whole platform would be doing rather better! But I can't see having "Microsoft" stamped all over doing any favours for the device here...

    1. AIBailey

      Re: Conspicuous by absence...

      "Except that Xboxes (360s at least, not yet seen an XB1 in the flesh) aren't conspicuously stamped with "Microsoft"."

      Not especially on the console itself, however every controller and every game box have the MS logo in a fairly prominent place, and the Microsoft logo is shown on the 360's power on screen.

      It's not like they're totally hiding their branding, like Sega did with the Dreamcast..

      1. Belardi

        Re: Conspicuous by absence...

        The original Amiga was like that... barely any C= commodore info anywhere. It had the better logo, shorter name... cooler font, etc.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Conspicuous by absence...

      They could have stuck with Lumia - at least it's got a couple of years of history and Nokia didn't want to keep that trademark, MS have got other trademarks such as Xbox, Kinect, Surface, Bing, OneDrive, and Skype, and there's no rule that it has to be called Microsoft or Windows.

      You'd think that after Xbox being a success without the Microsoft name someone would realised that the same would apply to their phones. Perhaps everyone who's spent that long at MS has been fired already, who knows.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Finland should consider itself lucky

    the buildings manager enthused to me about gadgets. "I love all Japanese electronics, and smartest of all the Japanese companies is Nokia."

    This level of ignorance indicates that Finland has never been invaded by the US.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Finland should consider itself lucky

      I, too, have heard the Nokia / Japanese comment from friends and family. Nevertheless, I'm sure Americans will learn where Finland is as soon as Putin pops round under the guise of re-unifying Karelia. After all, they all know where Crimea is now too.

      Anonymous, because, well...

      1. IsJustabloke Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Finland should consider itself lucky

        I think you'll find that they know where Ukraine is rather the Crimea ;)

      2. Kunari

        Re: Finland should consider itself lucky

        We've heard of Crimea, I still highly doubt many Americans would know where it is on a map.

        1. Belardi

          Re: Finland should consider itself lucky

          HEY! I'm an American!

          But sadly, you are right. Most of the Americans who are shitty their pants over Crimea don't know what content it is on... some think its next door to us. They watch a lot of NewCorps crap - sorry you got the same pricks in your country.

          Also very sad, is that a lot of Americans THINK that China is NORTH of the USA... Not Canada.

      3. Sacioz

        Re: Finland should consider itself lucky

        It is hard, but if the Russian Army ventures that far , Gorbachev might have a point ... who knows ? What the new ones , namely , India , Pakistan ,and why not ISIS, might bring to the table ? Not to mention the Junction between Beijing / Shang Hai

      4. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Finland should consider itself lucky

        I'm sure Americans will learn where Finland is as soon as Putin pops round under the guise of re-unifying Karelia.

        Madame Victoria Nuland-Kagan, please go back to your inside-the-beltway psycho grottothink tank.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Finland should consider itself lucky

          Ha! Have a click for hilarity.

          But I do in fact live in Finland.

    2. DougS Silver badge

      Re: Finland should consider itself lucky

      When I first heard the name "Nokia" in the 90s, I assumed it was Japanese too. Maybe it just "sounded Japanese" to me.

      If they wanted everyone to know it was Finnish, they should have spelled it Nökiä!

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Finland should consider itself lucky

        If they wanted everyone to know it was Finnish, they should have spelled it Nökiä!

        Ikea is (originally) swedish.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Finland should consider itself lucky

        Well, Nokia is a small city in Finland. That's where the name comes from.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As tempting as the price point is you're asking for trouble walking around with a bright orange phone with MICROSOFT written on the back. That'd be weeks of ammunition in some circles if you produced that on the table of the pub on a Friday night.

    Can anyone who knows a bit more about these Nokia / Microsoft Lumias what the Microsoft strategy is here?? Every phone they seem to release is either budget or very bog standard level. What is the flagship Lumia at the minute their best model that competes with the iPhone, the Note 4, HTC One M8 etc? Have they actually got anything at the high end that can compete?

    1. John P

      I think the 930 is the current flagship, From the Reg review it seems to be a decent phone but I don't know how it stacks up against the phones you mentioned.

      Although HTC are releasing a WinPho One M8 so that will be interesting...

    2. Hellcat
      Joke

      Flagship?

      If I knock my 1020's camera down to only 8MP and switch off MMS then it's fairly close to the iphone 6.

      It takes calls, messages, emails, takes photos, browses the web, plays games and handles social media without any noticable lag moving between apps. It doesn't have a fingerprint scanner though - well might as well chuck it in the bin.

      1. Edwin

        Re: Flagship?

        but does it bend?

        (my 930 doesn't)

    3. h4rm0ny

      "As tempting as the price point is you're asking for trouble walking around with a bright orange phone with MICROSOFT written on the back. That'd be weeks of ammunition in some circles if you produced that on the table of the pub on a Friday night."

      These circles you speak of, are they ones that one would want to find oneself in on your Friday night in the pub?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      What is the high end?

      ok, so i have a genuine question here, so lets not go all tribal about it. But what do you mean by a flagship phone? What does the iPhone 6 / note 4 / M8 have that is missing on the Lumias?

      lets go for the first thing on everyone's list - Apps. ok, i accept that there is a difference in what is available, but i think that we are talking about hardware here, so lets focus on that. Same point applies to the operating system.

      Compare the iPhone 6 to a Lumia 830 at the hardware level and there is a lot of cross over. Both have good cameras (though the Lumia has a higher resolution sensor and OIS, i think the iPhone is better for video). Both are 4G with NFC and bluetooth 4 (though iPhone has 802.11ac support, Lumia 830 only has 802.11n). Both have gorilla glass screens, and though the Lumia's is a little larger (5 inch vs. 4.7 inch) the iPhone is a slightly higher resolution (1334x750 vs 1280x720) - but there is not a lot in it either way. Both have pretty decent batteries and both manufactuers will have lied about the potential battery life. Both pretty much the same size, though the iPhone is slimmer by 1.5mm and about 30g lighter; i suspect that the Lumia has slimmer bezels. Build quality is good on both.

      iPhone has a fingerprint sensor and is probably better at video (though that may be due to software as much as hardware). May also be some other features that i have missed (please add below).

      Lumia has replaceable battery with wireless charging, changable cases / covers, a memory card slot and supersensitive touch so that you don't need special gloves to use it in the cold. It also has glance screen (though that may be due to software as much as hardware).

      so there are some pros and cons to each but not a lot between them.

      You then get to the processor and RAM. The Lumia has a quad-core snapdragon 400 and 1GB of ram. I think that a lot of people will get hung up on these numbers, so suffice to say that i accept that a faster processor and more ram will result in a smoother experience but i genuinely don't have any problems with the 830. Seeing as apple don't say what is inside their phones then this is hard to judge, in fairness, it is probably faster - though the lumia is not slow.

      so what i wonder is why is the iPhone considered such a premium product, when all the reviews of the Lumia mention up front that it is at best a mid-range phone? Can someone explain what i am missing? Because right now, the biggest difference between them (aside from the differences between iOS8 and WP8.1 and the quality/quantity of the associated apps) is in the price. £320 for the Lumia and £620 for the iPhone.

      Like i said - genuine question. I went for an 830 and think its great, if you have an iphone then i hope you enjoy it - this is not a personal attack on all of your deepest held beliefs. I'm just trying to understand the differences here.

      Can anyone tell me what i am missing?

      1. Ledswinger Silver badge

        Re: What is the high end?

        "Can anyone tell me what i am missing?"

        Yes. Brand.

        Admittedly there's only one big fruity dog in smartphone brands, with Samsung a much smaller dog running along behind, and it's arguable whether Samsung really have a brand or just incredibly strong sales & marketing. Microsoft claim to have a brand, but in terms of having zealous fanbois willing to queue outside shops, falling over themselves to show the latest shiney, willing to pay exorbitant margins for the name? Nope.

        And despite brand awareness ratings, brand strength is only really measured by the extra margin that people will voluntarily pay for an otherwise ordinary product. So BMW 3 series make fatter margins than Ford Mondeos, for products that are not really very much better (cue: Frothing BMWbois rage). And in this context Microsoft are the Ford of the mobile world - makers of worthy, cost effective but unloved products, that simply lack the cachet of BMW.

        1. hoverboy

          Re: What is the high end?

          The queue was quite short compared with iDevice ones, but I was the first person at the Toronto Microsoft store to NOT get a Surface Pro when they came out. There were plenty of people behind me and there were some very long faces. Thanks to Mr J. Daniels for your comfort at this time ;-)

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What is the high end?

          I use Microsoft products because I have to, not because I want to

      2. hoverboy

        Re: What is the high end?

        Glance is a hardware feature. It needs an LCD screen. I have a 930, which I love for the fantastic camera and the Miracast screen casting, but overall I still prefer my old 925 which is more than adequate in all respects compared with the 930, but it has glance.

    5. Waspy

      Your friday nights in the pub sound really interesting...

    6. JDX Gold badge

      re:That'd be weeks of ammunition

      That rather depends on your circle of friends.

    7. hoverboy

      I realise where I work != the rest of the world, but in my German aerospace engineering office you get laughed at for NOT having a Windows phone these days. People tend to be impressed if you can produce thermal analysis results during the meeting from running Excel on your PHONE.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        "People tend to be impressed if you can produce thermal analysis results during the meeting from running Excel on your PHONE."

        Microsoft added Excel to the iOS app store on 6th March this year. I'm sure it must be available on Android too.

  6. Wombling_Free
    WTF?

    Logo on the back I can understand...

    ..it's free advertising after all.

    Why the logo on the front though? Do people regularly forget what phone they have, and wonder why their iOS apps aren't on it? Do they have to sift through a pile of phones to find the right one? "I'm pretty sure the Microsoft one was ringing, I think I left it under the Nokia, but I'll have to move the Blackberry and the Erriccssonn before I can move the Apple to get to the Sony that's covering the Microsoft"

    1. kmac499

      Re: Logo on the back I can understand...

      same reason car makers put their logos boot and bonnet I suppose. MInd you I always insist the dealer doesn't stick any of their stuff on any car I've bought, or I take great delight in peeling it all off before I drive away.

    2. IsJustabloke Silver badge

      Re: Logo on the back I can understand...

      ummmm..... MY current SONY has the brand back and front.... as did my sammy before that and my HTC before that and indeed the Nokia I had before that.

  7. Rich 2

    Lovely hardware

    ....shame it's MS.

    Yea, it's a tired old comment but face it, that's the reality. If they put Android on it it would probably sell a bundle. As it is, errr.... It won't

    1. Bod

      Re: Lovely hardware

      Nokia did put Android on the same hardware with the X series. It didn't set the world on fire.

      1. RyokuMas Silver badge
        Stop

        Re: Lovely hardware

        To be fair, the odds of the X "setting the world on fire" were pretty slim.

        For starters - yes, it was Android. But it was their own branch of the AOSP, as opposed to the standard Google E3-in-progress that makes up the bulk of the market - so no Play store, and therefore pretty slim pickings on the apps front. Plus the fact that the Franken-face between Android and WP just didn't really work either did not help.

        And then Microsoft put the kybosh on it before it had any real chance to get going...

    2. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Lovely hardware

      It's not really the reality though. WP8 is a nice, easy to use OS. It's not particularly exciting but it works well enough for most people's needs.

    3. Kunari

      Re: Lovely hardware

      You may have a point, I'd have loved a 1020 if it'd been Android.

  8. dheath2000

    Just one question....

    Sounds great! But can I format it and put Android on it?...

    1. GitMeMyShootinIrons

      Re: Just one question....

      Counterpoint - can I buy a Samsung S5 or an iPhone 6, format it and put Windows Phone on it? That kind of flexibility would be nice. I suppose being able to by the M8 as either Android or Windows Phone might be nice - but a truly customizable 'Pick Hardware then pick OS' would be nice too.

      I've had Android and I currently have Windows Phone. I have far less trouble and have a far more seamless user experience with my Nokia (or NOTkia now, I suppose) than my kids have with there flaky Android equipped Samsungs.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Just one question....

        can I buy a Samsung S5 or an iPhone 6, format it and put Windows Phone on it?

        I doubt it, Windows is closed source, inflexible, and available for very few devices.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Just one question....

          Hmmm sounds like iOS to me too...

  9. dheath2000

    Just one question....

    Sounds great; but can I format it and put Android on it?....

    1. Shagbag

      Re: Just one question....

      That's two.

      1. IsJustabloke Silver badge

        Re: Just one question.... That's two.

        Why does the first version of his question have more upvotes than the second....dd some commentards change their minds?

  10. graeme leggett

    the numbers

    "2000 to 2009 Nokia was the world's fifth biggest brand on Interbrand's rankings "

    Where was it from 2009 to 2013?

    1. graeme leggett

      Re: the numbers

      I was surprised to find it so easily (assumed someone would want payment)

      2011 Nokia - 14th (Microsoft 3rd)

      2012 Nokia - 19th (Microsoft 5th)

      2013 Nokia - 57th (Microsoft 5th)

      1. Ledswinger Silver badge

        Re: the numbers

        "assumed someone would want payment"

        Not for "world's biggest brands" nonsense. It's all charged back to the companies concerned. Far be it from me to suggest that companies buy their rankings.

  11. Kar98

    3G only though.

    "Lumia 535 comes in two flavors: 3G Single SIM, or 3G Smart Dual SIM". Otherwise it would be a proper successor to the 520.

  12. Carbon life unit 5,232,556

    If they thought sales were bad before....

    hmm

  13. Longrod_von_Hugendong
    WTF?

    Nokia has some value...

    Leave it on the phones. Also to be honest, you would be mad to buy one - I know this because I did, and lived with a Windows phone for 2 weeks. No apps and the ones that are on the app store are crap.

    As Clarkson would paraphrase... , yes you can buy a Windows smart phone but for the love of god, don't.

    There is one redeeming feature though... an that is can use my iCloud account for email and contacts, but I am sure Andriod can do the same these days...

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Nokia has some value...

      I lived with one for over a year and then bought another one. So I have about 30X more experience than you and therefore my opinion is 30X more valuable.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Nokia has some value...

        Had my 1020 for about a year and, camera aside, I think I'd be better off with a Texas Instruments Speak n' Spell. Sorry. I wanted to like it, but every other day it finds some new and interesting way of doing my head in.

  14. john 19
    Linux

    Re-emerge after the end of next year?!

    "Included in the $7.2bn deal were licenses to use the Nokia brand for a limited period. Nokia itself agreed not to make mobile devices until the end of next year."

    Does this mean that Nokia mobile can re-emerge after the end of next year and re-build the brand using Android or other Linux based OS?

    1. Salts

      Re: Re-emerge after the end of next year?!

      Well they do still have their R&D division working on new mobiles, it's called Jolla :-)

  15. Frankee Llonnygog

    Most important question

    Will that logo on the back rub off with a drop of acetone?

    1. Ledswinger Silver badge

      Re: Most important question

      "Will that logo on the back rub off with a drop of acetone?"

      Give it a once over with Spray Mount, roll it in glitter and you won't see the logo. And you can then change the email tag line to "Sent from my Vertu".

  16. Chris Cartledge
    Meh

    Naming/Numbering

    I find it difficult to engage with a range of goods named/numbered: 530, 535, 630 and 635. This is even less enticing than Windows itself.

    1. Anna Logg

      Re: Naming/Numbering

      Well a similar strategy doesn't seem to have done BMW any harm.

      1. Ledswinger Silver badge

        Re: Naming/Numbering

        "Well a similar strategy doesn't seem to have done BMW any harm."

        But they don't launch new models every ten minutes as Microsoft seem to. So everybody knows what a BMW 320 is - a two litre four door mid sized saloon. BMW can happily launch a new 320 every five to seven years, with annual model refreshes, and it's still the same answer that its a two litre four door mid sized saloon.

        Microsoft and phones? I'm with the OP, in that I'm confused. There's too little difference between a lot of the models, and any attempt at hierarchical numbering is doomed because of the fast development of phone technology.

    2. GitMeMyShootinIrons

      Re: Naming/Numbering

      Works for BMW. I rather like the 6 Series.

      Audi naming sounds like European paper sizes and they don't seem to have a problem either.

  17. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
    Windows

    History repeating

    It looks like smartphones are going the way of calculators in the 80s. Zillions of "features", ever cheaper but people seem to care less and less about changing from what they have.

  18. JDX Gold badge

    Branding

    I'm surprised they so boldly brand it "Microsoft" rather than put the MS logo with "Lumia", which has gained some brand awareness and is not (IIRC) owned by Nokia.

  19. Yugguy

    The price appeals

    Given that I am not one of those people who feels the need to validate my existence by spending ludicrous amounts of money on iPointless devices if this gave me the apps I require at that budget price I'd consider it.

    Agreed you'd need to remove the MS logo ASAP mind.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The price appeals

      Or you can just get a cheaper Android phone with better specs and not bother with Windows phones and the bundled Microsoft crapola that comes preinstalled in them.

      Microsoft is not even competing with Apple, because it knows it cannot win against Apple at the higher price points. Feel free to validate your existence with more budget friendly devices, but do understand that there's nothing remarkable about the Lumia 535 and there are better alternatives.

      1. dogged

        Re: The price appeals

        > Or you can just get a cheaper Android phone with better specs

        No, you really couldn't. Did you read the article?

      2. Matt_payne666

        Re: The price appeals

        Bundled Crapola? Like office?

        There is very little bloat on a winphone and all of it can be uninstalled... no permanent operator branding or crap

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft will find out the hard way

    People may buy a Nokia phone, but few will be compelled to buy a Microsoft phone. It's the brand perception: Microsoft is a tainted brand, Nokia was at least once a glorious progenitor of mobile phones. Microsoft will not sell hardware like Apple based solely on the merit of branding alone.

    Besides, you can get cheaper and better specced China Android phones. They are even taking away chunks of business from Samsung. Good luck competing in the lower price points with that.

    Microsoft should stop its hardware ambitions and stick to software. The mobile ship has sailed long ago, time to port Office to iOS and Android and call it a day. Not only will there be less money burnt, less bridges will be burnt too when it comes to OEM hardware partners.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I was a die hard Nokia fan, the Nokia N900 being the last one i ever bought. Then Microsoft came along and so i ran a mile, and made the mistake of buying an Samsung Android phone (S2). That was a heap of junk, so paid to terminate my contract early and got an iPhone 5, now I'm an Apple fan and aint no way I'm going near a phone with the words Microsoft written on the front, maybe stood a slim chance with the old beloved Nokia as a last resort, those tiles are vile. Then there is also the lack of almost all the Apps i use,so i just look at it and go meh, is it actually useful for anything? Nope, maybe a feature phone?

  22. king of foo

    FINALLY

    it looks like they've stuffed a decent amount of ram in there!

    I have no doubt this will be a decent bit of kit. On specs and price alone this looks like a potential android beater at the 'gutter' end.

    Would I buy one? Hells no, but I can see friends and relatives using these happily. I'd like a play to see for myself, but it would be really difficult to take this spec and screw it up. My only real negative feedback re budget lumias has been the lack of ram; this fixes that issue. Now they just need to drop the cheesy adverts... and maybe give them away for free with windows 8 computers by way of an apology...

  23. ifekas

    I have an iPhone 5 and I trialled a Nokia Lumia 520 for work, and was really impressed with it that I decide to replace my work Android (Moto G). Anyway, I recommended and setup a Lumia 735 for a friend who was fed up with poor battery life on an admittedly lowish end Samsung Galaxy, and was even more impressed with the spec for the price on that model.... so much so that I bought a Lumia 735 sim free myself. Though it hasn't replaced my iPhone 5, if my iPhone expired tomorrow I would quite happily live with the Lumia at less than half the price.

    Though not a Microsoft/Windows fan, I find the Windows phone interface really rather nice and more intuitive especially compared to Android; the Nokia Here navigation brilliant, excellent battery life, and things like the 'People' section really good. On the downside, there are a couple of apps that I can't get for Windows phone, but I can live without them.

    I'm not particularly keen on the Microsoft branding announced, but don't think it would prevent me buying another Lumia.

  24. Lostintranslation

    Mirosoft branded handsets.

    Yeah, I can see the queues forming as we speak.

  25. danXtrate

    Does it really matter in this day and age what platform you use as a home user? Unless you are a serious mobile gamer (the term made me smile as I typed it) or install and test apps each day after going through the morning read of the pseudo techo consumer websites that proclamate themselves as "the bible" it makes little difference if you use Android, iOS or WinPho in their latest versions.

    I personally find iPhones nice devices and have the utmost respect for Apple for being able to keep up the Jobsian hype while literally herding fanbois to Apple stores with each release. I'll never pay the insane prices they ask for but good for them they still have a large loyal fanbase.

    Android is a different story. Since it's available to so many suppliers, many of them botch the customization and really mess up marketing wize. Look at Sony, HTC and Samsung. I've used great high end phones from all of them but I always found myself rooting and installing custom firmware because of lack of support and crapware I couldn't get rid of. The best Android experience I've ever had was a Moto G with bog standard Android. Nexus devices aren't sold by Google in my are and are kind of expensive.

    WinPho is great for business use, where you just need a fast interface for even low end devices, integration with the software infrastructure (and MS has a rock solid foothold there) in a secure and manageable way and decent to great battery life. As a consumer I am impressed with what WinPho can do with few hardware resources, which is actually a first for Microsoft, the ease of use even for first time smartphone users and the quality and snappiness of even low end devices.

    I'm a technical guy by trade and my next phone will be OnePlus One, but both my girlfriend and my mother use Lumia phones and they couldn't care less they don't have a full file browser. They care that the phones are fast, get good battery life, have facebook, twitter, onedrive, skype and lightweight games and full office editor. The 535 dual sim is in my sights as a christmas present for at least one of them.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    I do just love how the Windows Phone

    detractors, almost invariably hide behind AC...

    For fucks sake. Grow a pair.....

    You all talk a lot but say very little....

    1. dogged

      Re: I do just love how the Windows Phone

      > You all talk a lot but say very little....

      You're assuming there's more than one.

      1. RyokuMas Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: I do just love how the Windows Phone

        "You're assuming there's more than one."

        Oh my god, Eadon's back!

  27. phish

    Difference from the 635 - no 4G

    I was getting impressed that this 535 was an all-round upgrade from the more expensive 635, but now I notice that they have saved money by dropping the LTE 4G support.

  28. MJI Silver badge

    A few points

    1) Lumia would be a better brand name on a phone than Microsoft.

    2) I do like the older Symbian Nokia phones, I found them easier to use day in day out than my current Android.

    3) I prefer the old N8 to most modern phones, may be few apps, but it was nice to use and had a good camera.

    One day there will be a perfect phone OS, from who, no one knows.

  29. Belardi

    Seems kind of stupid that MS bothered at all with this...

    They bought out their mobile division... fired pretty much everyone, sent the manufacturing to China... to end up selling phone again with MS stamped on it... like the previous Windows Phone.

    People didn't buy "Microsoft" phones before... doubt they will now.

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