back to article Preview redux: Microsoft ships new Windows 10 build with 7,000 changes

Less than three weeks after it debuted the Windows 10 Technical Preview, Microsoft has shipped a comprehensive update to the pre-release OS that brings substantial changes, including some new features borrowed from Windows Phone. The new build, number 9860, replaces the 9841 build that was included in the original Technical …

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Windows 10 ?

    Did I miss 9?

    Or instead of skipping to every 2nd release are we now waiting for it to double?

    When do I update to Windows 14

    1. Jordan Davenport

      Re: Windows 10 ?

      I see someone's been asleep.

    2. lesession

      Re: Windows 10 ?

      Is this going to be this release's 'bring back the Start menu'?

      Every thread, every build, every discussion about W10, some wag is going to jump in and make a hilarious comment to the effect of 'where's Windows 9'?

      1. Chris Miller

        Allegedly

        Some third party apps misidentified a windows version beginning with a 9 as Windows 95 or 98. So calling it Windows 9 broke stuff.

        1. Lee D Silver badge

          Re: Allegedly

          Highly doubtful... Windows' internal numbering is very different to what you or I might call a Windows version number, and any software relying on that would never be looking for a "9" back in the 95/98 era (when it was still Windows 6.0.0000? Maybe even 5.0.0000).

          More likely, "nein" is no in German, and apparently it's quite insulting in Japanese too. Rather than set themselves up for the "Windows No" jokes over in Germany and Japan, they've skipped a number.

          Hell, think yourself lucky they didn't go back to Windows 2015 or "hemi-deci-millenium" or something.

          1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

            Re: Allegedly

            Nothing to do with German, a lot to do with this bit of .NET loveliness that's probably been lurking in corporate internal software for about ten years:

            if ( Environment.OSVersion.ToString().startsWith("Microsoft Windows 9") )

            { // running on 98, not supported.

            }

            Yes, the "real" version number is also present in that string (after the product name), but it's a lot harder to parse that out and compare it than it is to just look at the stem of the string. Lets ignore that the chances of that code ever running on 98 are slim anyway - there's lots of code that has an initialisation sequence that's just old cruft and boilerplate, and not just on Windows: look at a typical Linux automake config for an example...

            1. dogged

              Re: Allegedly

              That's basically the problem although if you've managed to install .NET on Win95 you're some kind of sick genius.

          2. LDS Silver badge

            Re: Allegedly

            Windows 95 was of course version 4.0.

            See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Windows_versions or http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724832(v=vs.85).aspx.

            "Year" names looksnow reserved to the server versions only.Why they did jumped 9 maybe one day will be explained fully, but there are many numbers that may be avoided in product names, it happens with 13, it happens with 14 - for example Canon in its G line jumped from 12 to 15 because 13 in "unlucky" in many western cultures, while 14 is not good in some oriental ones. Office AFAIK skipped the internal 13 version number.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Allegedly

              "while 14 is not good in some oriental ones"

              So true!

              There is a trace amount of lead in Panda penis. Apparently 14 is enough to reach the LD50.

          3. Ken Hagan Gold badge

            Re: Allegedly

            "More likely, "nein" is no in German, and ..."

            Hang on a mo. Who dreamt up that load of effing cobblers?

            If you show the string "Windows 9" to a German they'll read it as "Windows neun". The same presumably goes for the Japanese. No-one reads numerals in a foreign language and then takes offence at the bad pun that results.

            1. beep54

              Re: Allegedly

              No-one reads numerals in a foreign language and then takes offence at the bad pun that results.

              "I am a jelly donut" comes to mind. A tempest in a teapot (as it were) here in the US which I gather left the Germans scratching their heads about what the deal was :)

        2. (AMPC) Anonymous and mostly paranoid coward
          Windows

          Re: Allegedly

          Allegedly, the name would have been a bit awkward (and joke worthy) for German customers as in:

          Achtung!

          Windows?

          Nein!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 10 ?

      Except the numbers are nothing more than stupid meaningless marketing branding. If you don't believe me open a command window and type ver on Windows 7 or 8. Spot the difference? Is Microsoft the only company to call its software by a different version number to what it actually is?

      1. dogged

        Re: Windows 10 ?

        > If you don't believe me open a command window and type ver on Windows 7 or 8. Spot the difference? Is Microsoft the only company to call its software by a different version number to what it actually is?

        You're referring to the kernel version and every linux distro is far in excess of the linux kernel, the answer to your question is a resounding "no".

        And /ver doesn't work in Win8 but thanks for playing.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 10 ?

      You don't update. This still has the awful Metro stuff in it, so stick with Windows 7.

      The days of PC outside the workplace are over. Just get a decent tablet or Chromebook.

      1. beep54

        Re: Windows 10 ?

        I was (quite graciously) given a Chromebook. And while I can see that this might be useful for dicking around the net for a given proportion of people, the fact that I could not USE it in any really meaningful way quickly drove me nuts so I soon made sure it would also run full blown Linux. I effing want my PC's to work, dammit!

  2. Vince

    Nice references to Office Space on the screenshot.

    We are putting new coversheeets on all the TPS reports y'know...

  3. pirithous

    I'm not real hot on Windows 10 Preview:

    1. Backdoor exists in app store with unknown potential or functionality

    2. Windows store cannot be removed; current incarnation is terrible

    3. NT Kernel and system .dll source cannot be inspected to see if any malicious features present

    4. Windows 10 records keystrokes and other data of the user and phones home to Microsoft; how long are they saving it? What it's actually doing isn't known because the source is closed

    5. Microsoft has deliberately made it difficult for users of Windows 8 to operate the system in its default state without a Microsoft account, and the trend is continues with Windows 10

    6. The default Skype app is a total joke on a desktop, I mean...c'mon.

    7. NTFS filsystem is not competitve with ZFS, EXT4 or Btrfs, and fragments easily.

    8. Windows registry is a binary mess where if something goes wrong in one part of it, the whole thing can get corrupted, and things can be permanently stuck in the registry requiring a complete reinstall: http://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/why-the-windows-registry-sucks-technically/

    9. Microsoft developers have leaked info that Windows, from a technical standpoint is losing against Linux: http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=74

    10. If one developer leaked info about how things work at Microsoft's HQ, how many other devs feel the same way yet are keeping their mouths shut because they need a paycheck?

    1. LDS Silver badge

      1) This a technical preview, not a production one

      2) Windows Store cannot be removed but can be disabled (group policies) it if you like. Can you remove iOS store? or install software on a Chromebook outside Google control? It wasn't MS to start with stores...

      3) Those in the MS source code access program can access Windows source for inspection. You just need to qualify...

      4) Again, it's a technical preview for testing - noone would use it for sensitive data. If you look for a free Windows, look elsewhere.

      5) Google, Apple, etc. had deliberately made difficult to operate without an account. MS is just following the trend. You need a RedHat account too, think....

      6) Skype 7 for Windows is available as a preview too.

      7) ZFS is a nice FS for storage servers, but it requires large amounts of memory to run. It's no the FS you would use on a client. EXT4 came with its shares of problems too (fsync(), anyone?). And your knowledge of NTFS looks very outdated - not that you know much about the others too but the acronyms.

      8) Windows registry is a nice facility as long as you use it as it should be used. It's not a kitchen sink dump for application written by developers without a clue about developing good applications. It's not so easy to corrupt the registry. Stop being afraid of binary files, it's so '70s... and if you like I can find plenty of blogs telling you why Linux sucks as well.

      9) Sure, blog.zorinaq.com is an authoritative source.

      10) Do you believe that in any organization with more than 100 employee there's not at least one not happy?

      Really, if you dislike Windows so much stop reading articles about it and feel compelled to write why you dislike it so much. Partecipate in some system v against systemd discussion, you will be happier...

      1. pirithous

        1) This a technical preview, not a production one

        Oh wow, thanks. I didn't know that. It's still a bad move by Microsoft, and your argument is a totally moronic one as you're leaving out the argument over the precedent that Microsoft is setting. A typical response from a troll.

        2) Windows Store cannot be removed but can be disabled (group policies) it if you like. Can you remove iOS store? or install software on a Chromebook outside Google control? It wasn't MS to start with stores...

        You left out all the Linux desktops; of course you would mention iOS and Chromebook -- specific systems to support your very weak argument. Let's see: openSUSE? No app store backdoor. Debian? Nope -- not there either!

        3) Those in the MS source code access program can access Windows source for inspection. You just need to qualify...

        Oh wow! How do we all get in touch with them? Where is the website to sign up for this?

        4) Again, it's a technical preview for testing - noone would use it for sensitive data. If you look for a free Windows, look elsewhere.

        Refer to #1

        5) Google, Apple, etc. had deliberately made difficult to operate without an account. MS is just following the trend. You need a RedHat account too, think....

        Refer to #2

        7) ZFS is a nice FS for storage servers, but it requires large amounts of memory to run. It's no the FS you would use on a client. EXT4 came with its shares of problems too (fsync(), anyone?). And your knowledge of NTFS looks very outdated - not that you know much about the others too but the acronyms.

        So a troll is going to assume that my knowledge of filesystems is limited, when extensive research exists on the internet about how bad and slow NTFS is against Linux filesystems (including EXT4), yet you're just going to bury your head in the sand? I really feel sorry for you.

        8) Windows registry is a nice facility as long as you use it as it should be used. It's not a kitchen sink dump for application written by developers without a clue about developing good applications. It's not so easy to corrupt the registry. Stop being afraid of binary files, it's so '70s... and if you like I can find plenty of blogs telling you why Linux sucks as well.

        Stop being afraid of binary files? Are you fucking kidding me? The Windows registry is a total piece of shit and everybody knows it, and it's poorly implemented and insecure. I've made enough money in my career due to fixing registry problems. Thank you, Microsoft, for that opportunity.

        9) Sure, blog.zorinaq.com is an authoritative source.

        Looks pretty legit to me, and the dev even posted a follow-up because he thought he was too harsh. But of course, an ignorant person would believe in a conspiracy that the post was fake. Why don't you go watch some Alex Jones.

        Really, if you dislike Windows so much stop reading articles about it and feel compelled to write why you dislike it so much. Partecipate in some system v against systemd discussion, you will be happier...

        Do not tell me what or what not to read. If you read a Mormon bible and believe it, this doesn't mean I share your truth. Also, do not ever tell me what or what not to participate in. I will participate in what I feel I want to participate in -- and you don't even know if I like Windows or not. Maybe I do like it but I point out technical problems with it that are real. Either way, you do not get to know what is inside my head because my private thoughts are mine, not yours.

        1. dogged

          I see a lot of "everyone knows" and "it's all over the internet" from you cited as evidence but please try to remember that consensus doesn't mean you're right. It just means that a lot of people agree with you.

          A lot of people believe in angels.

        2. LDS Silver badge

          1) So if you know it's tech previw why you complain about being instrumented? Did you ever worked on software development? Early releases are always heavily instrumented to identify issues. Or are you the kind that debug with printf() only?

          2) It looks you don't understand the differences between commercial software and non commercial one. You may not like one model, but there's no law forbidding making money from selling software. And I guess you just bash Windows for being commercial, not other commercial OSes, right?

          3) http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sharedsource/default.aspx - it would have been easy to find it

          4) See 1....

          5) Sure, only MS is wrong if it asks you an account, right? Did you complain about Apple, Google, etc in this way too? Also you missed 10 lifts this for domain accounts.

          7) "Extensive research" will tell you everything and its contrary. But feel free to tell some developers (i.e. Mozilla ones..) who bumped into Ext4 issue how great Ext4 is...

          8) If your "factual arguments" are like "is a total piece of shit" there's little to discuss. It's clear you have no clue about how Windows is designed, works, and is implemented (insecure? LOL!), and nothing can change your prejudices.

          9) Again, extensive research on the Internet will tell you everything and its contrary. You are free to believe what you like

          And you're free to read what you like. Just it's difficult to understand why you feel so compelled to comment like a troll, insult people, use a coarse language - it looks you're not pointing out real technical problems at all, it looks you need to reassure your self esteem that way. Windows users don't spend their time insulting Linux ones on their forums, probably has a lot better to do and don't feel any need to feel "superior" at all costs. Probably they don't need to compensate something...

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          No we dont know you,

          However, you sound a lot like a kid who has installed linux on his laptop because his friends told him to. You've probably found it great for internet browsing - since that's all you do.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Trollface

      1. Backdoor exists in app store with unknown potential or functionality

      It's not a "backdoor", it's a "maintenance port". Anyway, that functionality will only be accessable to internet connected devices. Disconnect from the Internet if you don't like it.

      2. Windows store cannot be removed; current incarnation is terrible

      You can hide the icon. That's enough, isn't it? Anyway, you have to use it if you want updates.

      3. NT Kernel and system .dll source cannot be inspected to see if any malicious features present

      Microsoft can inspect it.

      4. Windows 10 records keystrokes and other data of the user and phones home to Microsoft; how long are they saving it? What it's actually doing isn't known because the source is closed

      They're just collecting the frequency of key presses, for a simplified keyboard design.

      They're also collecting the most popular passwords, so they can just have a drop-down list on password fields, instead of having to type it in all the time.

      5. Microsoft has deliberately made it difficult for users of Windows 8 to operate the system in its default state without a Microsoft account, and the trend is continues with Windows 10

      It isn't deliberate.

      6. The default Skype app is a total joke on a desktop, I mean...c'mon.

      That's your fault for not using Linq.

      7. NTFS filsystem is not competitve with ZFS, EXT4 or Btrfs, and fragments easily.

      Open standard filesystems don't belong on a closed proprietary system.

      8. Windows registry is a binary mess where if something goes wrong in one part of it, the whole thing can get corrupted, and things can be permanently stuck in the registry requiring a complete reinstall: http://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/why-the-windows-registry-sucks-technically/

      But it's scalable - you can have a million records in there, and look-ups would be under 1 second! Also, think of the performance boosts when you run registry "cleaners".

      9. Microsoft developers have leaked info that Windows, from a technical standpoint is losing against Linux: http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=74

      It's not Microsoft's fault they have devs who leak.

      10. If one developer leaked info about how things work at Microsoft's HQ, how many other devs feel the same way yet are keeping their mouths shut because they need a paycheck?

      That's pure speculation.

      ;-)

      1. pirithous

        It's not a "backdoor", it's a "maintenance port". Anyway, that functionality will only be accessible to internet connected devices. Disconnect from the Internet if you don't like it.

        I disagree. If the totalitarian Microsoft can zap an app right of my personal computer without my permission, that's not okay. Nor is the walled garden future of Windows okay, and it's not okay with a myriad of developers either. Telling somebody to disconnect from the internet if they don't like it is not a very strong argument; in fact, it sounds really silly.

        You can hide the icon. That's enough, isn't it? Anyway, you have to use it if you want updates.

        No, that's not enough for me. I feel like Microsoft is engaging in totalitarianism and feudalism and is forcing people to be in the walled garden so the board members get their profit increase.

        Microsoft can inspect it.

        I believe Microsoft puts malicious features in their OS, so why would I want them inspecting it? I'm the one that wants to inspect it -- I don't trust Microsoft and neither do a lot of other people.

        They're just collecting the frequency of key presses, for a simplified keyboard design.

        How do you know this without seeing the source code?

        It isn't deliberate.

        Yes it is. It's pure feudalism. Foisting Microsoft accounts on users is Microsoft's way of getting their app store cut.

        That's your fault for not using Linq.

        That's really the best argument you could come up with? I make a comment about how the Modern version of Skype is a joke on the desktop, and I'm at fault for not using Linq?

        Open standard filesystems don't belong on a closed proprietary system.

        I never said they belonged on a proprietary system, although the functionality would be great and is something MS should consider. What my point was was that NTFS should get up to par with Linux filesystems, and it isn't.

        But it's scalable - you can have a million records in there, and look-ups would be under 1 second! Also, think of the performance boosts when you run registry "cleaners".

        Maybe the registry looks nice on paper, but in practice it's one of the most hellish monolithic parts of Windows, and /etc works just great and it's easy to find and edit things.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          And the "not getting the joke award goes to ....."

        2. LDS Silver badge

          BTW, for some discussions on Ext4:

          http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Linus-Torvalds-Upset-over-Ext3-and-Ext4

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Okay, I haven't tested it extensively, but when I got pissed off that I couldn't uninstall Windows Store, I went into the Windows directory (I forget precisely which subdirectory but, you know, 'Open containing folder' or 'Find target'), took ownership of it and deleted it. Then pressed refresh and it didn't come back.

            Maybe when I boot 10 again it'll be back, and if it isn't, by the time it goes RTM it will.

            Edit: Here in Windows 10 now. First thing I did was check C:\Windows\Winstore - and it was back. Took ownership again, deleted everything (left the folder), rebooted and it's still empty.

        3. M Gale

          Open standard filesystems don't belong on a closed proprietary system.

          Just a quickie:

          Why not? I mean assuming no GPL-alike "thou must makest the whole product FOSS" stuff (and given that a GPL driver, which an Ext* filesystem would most certainly be enabled through, doesn't have these viral properties to the rest of the OS), why does an open-standard (GPL, LGPL, BSD, MIT, WTFPL, etc, etc, etc...) filesystem "not belong" on a proprietary OS?

          My copy of ext2fs seems to be working just fine.

          1. dogged

            @M Gale

            That line was from the wind-up post with the trollface.

            Nobody except pirithous took it seriously.

            1. M Gale
              Facepalm

              Re: @M Gale

              That line was from the wind-up post with the trollface.

              Nobody except pirithous took it seriously.

              Never post when low on caffeine. It's not a good plan.

              Ho hum.

      2. JCB
        Pint

        Add mine too

        "They're also collecting the most popular passwords, so they can just have a drop-down list on password fields, instead of having to type it in all the time."

        Cool. Can I get mine added to the list. It's "s3cr3t"? With the quotes of course.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        It's not a "backdoor", it's a "maintenance port".

        You mean like the Sony maintenance port that was was put in XCP?

        Funny how it's OK for Microsoft to put key loggers and maintenance ports in Windows9, but they were the first ones to tell the world how evil Sony was by copy protecting CD's

        (of course it was totally unrelated they were about to launch the original Xbox and convincing braindead fanboys to hate Sony was just an added bonus).

  4. dogged

    Adding Battery Saver and Data sense is an interesting move - handy for corporate laptops with data sims.

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          1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

            No no children

            Calm down.

            pirthous makes some valid points that deserve to be answered.

            for example, IMHO if W10 is to be adopted by business most IT Depts wold insist that the AppStore is either disabled or preferable removed alltogether. If feedback to MS makes this possible then it is goodness.

            So why not take the time to answer the poins (yes some are verging on rants) before gettin abusive.

            1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

            2. LDS Silver badge

              Re: No no children

              pirthous attacked first like a troll without reasons.

              The store can already be dsabled through a group policy in Windows 8:

              http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2826659

              You can't really make valid points if your knowledge of Windows is shallow and outdated, and you just feel the need to bash it.

            3. dogged

              Re: No no children

              > So why not take the time to answer the poins (yes some are verging on rants) before gettin abusive.

              Because mine was a new comment entirely unrelated to the troll's and not posted in reply. Therefore I feel no impetus to answer the troll's points, regardless of their merit or otherwise.

              Let it rant and pass it by, hopefully we can have a civilized discussion, was my thought. The immediate attack in an unrelated post, however, makes that sadly unlikely.

              1. jason 7

                Re: No no children

                You'd almost think Eadon was back!

            4. Pookietoo

              Re: pirthous makes some valid points

              But he makes them so badly.

  5. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    5 steps to approval

    Have they really thought this through? I would have thought 3 would be necessary at most:

    build & test

    security tests

    beta group

  6. Keith Langmead

    "New" hotkey?

    "There's a new hotkey that allows you to move apps easily between monitors by pressing Win+Shift and the left or right arrow key."

    Sorry, are you saying that they didn't include that key combination which has been part of Windows since Windows 7 (possibly Vista) in the previous build, or that you weren't aware of it until now? It's definitely not "new". See also Win+Shift+Up, Win+Up, Win+Down, Win+Left and Win+Right (though the last two may only be since Windows 8).

  7. The Grump
    Mushroom

    No sale...

    Redmond can try to disguise bad coding all they want, but W10 can go straight to W8 hell. I will stick with my dual boot win 7 / win XP setup (xp for programs that will not run under W7, despite compatability settings). It seems MS still has to learn the lesson of New Coke (don't replace a successful product with something YOU think is great. The customer is still the ultimate judge).

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As anyone knows I'm far from a Microsoftie (you can pry my Linux Mint 17 from my cold dead hands) but Microsoft does seem to have the feel of a very different organisation these days.

    Getting shot of that bumbling oaf was the best thing they could have done.

  9. This post has been deleted by its author

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Am I Rip Van Winkle?

    What happened to Win9? Huh??

    That's so funny !!! Hilarious !!!!

    I threw up coffee all over my keyboard. Funniest thing since... don't know, sliced bread?

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