back to article Windows 10: One for the suits, right Microsoft? Or so one THOUGHT

Microsoft is courting corporate types with the newest version of its operating system, Windows 10. START MENU - Windows 10 preview The new Start menu mixes elements similar Windows 7 with live tiles from Windows 8. Redmond previewed an early build of the next Windows at a press event in San Francisco. The update, which …

  1. Alan Bourke

    The 'sanity at last' release.

    Who thought the Metro UI on servers was a good idea. This looks like a Touch UI where appropriate, or where the user wants to use it, and a traditional desktop alternative as an equal citizen, and hopefully all the startup speed and other benefits of Windows 8. Lovely.

    Nice to see the prompt getting some love too, although I think I'll still be using Cmder.

    1. Someone Else Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: The 'sanity at last' release.

      In other words: What Win8 should have been (and what users wanted) all along. See, Microsoft? that wasn't so hard, after all, now was it.

      (Although it does demonstrate once again, that Micros~1 can't get anything right until it takes three whacks at it...)

      1. Tyrion

        Re: The 'sanity at last' release.

        >> See, Microsoft? that wasn't so hard, after all, now was it.

        Microsoft never does anything for 'users', only for itself. In the case of Metro, it thought it could foist its fisher price touch UI onto its desktop monopoly in the hopes of imposing familiarity and luring mobile users into the platform. It didn't work. That's the problem with having OEM monopolies. Companies like Microsoft can do what it likes without consequences because no one challenges it. The sooner the desktop market dies the better.

    2. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      Re: The 'sanity at last' release.

      Why didn't they go to "11"?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The 'sanity at last' release.

      I'm still puzzled at why they want the same code-base running on tablets as well as laptops/desktops. I'd have thought they proved by now that it's not advisable. Same OS on tablet and phone, yes, but not desktop and tablet. I think Apple at least has that right even if there is a mergin of features.

    4. kb
      Thumb Up

      Re: The 'sanity at last' release.

      I'm running it on a 2011 AMD netbook which is the weakest thing I have, the logic being that if it runs good there it'll run good anywhere...the verdict? Faster than Windows 7,even with all drivers running in compatibility mode, and the few ideas left from Win 8 like the live tiles on the right of the start menu are optional, completely under user control, and by default are things users might actually find useful like the weather.

      While I thought Win 8 was garbage this is really nice and if the price is right I could easily see myself upgrading most of my systems. Its just a shame it no longer has DVD maker or I'd upgrade all but I have yet to find a program that works as well as DVD maker when it comes to making home movie DVDs.

  2. Flugal

    "but do users actually want live tiles on their Windows desktop?".

    I'm sure some do, perhaps even the majority, but this user does not. Icons seem to be an effective alternative.

    1. LDS Silver badge

      Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

      Microsoft should replace icons with tiles fully. I would like to have tiles which can be resized and can look like simple icons (but yet display some info) when "minimized", or display more information when set at different sizes.

      Why not having a mail or messagin app tile showing you incoming messages? Why not tiles informing you about an application running tasks and status? Why not an "icon" whose info displayed can be customized?

      Icons are a relic of the past, when computers struggled to display simple bitmaps fast enough. Now even the less powerful graphic cards has no issue with simple 2D graphics - it's time to make app access "icons" something more that static bitmaps...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

        look forward to that in 30.11.

        been there, done that.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Mushroom

        Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

        Why not having a mail or messagin app tile showing you incoming messages? Why not tiles informing you about an application running tasks and status? Why not an "icon" whose info displayed can be customized?

        Why not just let me get on with my fucking work?

        1. N2 Silver badge

          Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

          Agreed,

          The less irritating distractions the better.

      3. Tom 35 Silver badge

        Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

        How often do you sit staring at your desktop? The Mail tile on my surface RT is useless as when you don't have any email, it shows you old mail. Flash, flash, flash arg! I turned them all off except news.

        No one wanted Active Desktop.

        No one wanted Gadgets in Vista/7 with the exception of maybe a weather app or clock. Even MS abandoned them saying not to use them as they were unsafe.

        No one wants live tiles.

        1. Metrognome

          Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

          @ Tom 35: I beg to differ. There are tiles that are useful.

          Weather, stock tickers, RSS headlines, music players, all sorts of other widgets.

          Depending on how free you are to customise them and get them to do what the user wants they can be valuable.

          And more generally, any fundamentalist opinion which pre-supposes that all users like or dislike a feature make me sceptical.

          1. hammarbtyp Silver badge

            Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

            Desktop definition

            Something I see when I am starting and shutting down my PC

          2. Lyndon Hills 1
            Joke

            Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

            I think a tile showing fundamentalist opinions will be illegal, should the Tories win next May.

          3. GX5000

            Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

            Yeah.........."useful"

            Looks like I'll stick to Linux and WIn7+VMware

        2. kb
          Happy

          Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

          I take it you never tried CPUMeter and NetMeter gadgets as they are great for keeping an eye on the system and seeing when an app is sucking more CPU/RAM/Bandwidth than it should.

          Luckly for us that like gadgets they work just fine in Windows 8-10 thanks to 8GadgetPack, it even comes bundled with the most popular ones like the above and adding any previous gadget is "clicky clicky" simple.

          I do find it funny that so many would rag on gadgets while advocating Linux, while damned near every Linux desktop screenshot usually had gadgets like CPUMeter and NetMeter running.

      4. DaLo

        Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

        Maybe most business users don't stare at their desktop to see 'important' information. The notification panel that has been around a fair while can update you with anything important, but most of the time people in work (at least the places I have worked) rarely see the desktop, they have their actual work open on the PC whether that be the Internet, e-mail, Word, or proper applications.

        Even starting up the PC jumps straight to the corporate intranet and starts up e-mail in many places.

        Windows introduced Gadgets a while back and I never found them that useful, Live tiles are almost the same in that context but less useful.

        On a phone or possibly even a tablet a quick glance at the 'desktop' to see if there are any new notifications or updates works okay. On a PC, especially a business PC it doesn't. That is the issue with Microsoft especially with Windows 8, they never actually thought how a user actually uses a PC different to a phone and tablet, especially for business user who aren't obsessed with social updates.

        In fact the OS really doesn't matter much to most business users (not including tech departments) at all. It's all about the software and applications that people have to run to do their job, they just want the OS to allow that as simple as possible and a simple menu with about 10 programs supports that quite well. Learning to use a radically new OS just to do the same work is definitely not a positive.

        [Edit: I see after I posted that Tom 35 has the same opinion]

        1. JonP
          Coat

          Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

          If Microsoft were clever they'd offer you the choice of tiles or icons or make each instance configurable so you could have tiles for some things and icons for others.

          Just saying.

          1. alwarming
            Trollface

            Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

            I see I see the El Reg has an Edit feature. Cool.

            Edit: Sorry for the pointless post.

            Edit: Should I just withdraw it ?

          2. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

            Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

            Not quite. Microsoft could offer the facility of tiles as a free download, which would let people opt for it on its own merit, rather than having the edifice shoved down their throats.

        2. Terry 6 Silver badge

          Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

          Spot on Dat.o

          As much as I like the live tiles on my personal Winphone a desktop is where staff find their work. The OS is there to hold that stuff. That's what users need it to do. As unobtrusively as possible.

          We care about the toolkit, not the toolbox.

          Most users would be happy with Win 3.11 if it could support the 21stC hard/software. (And most probably don't use many more features than we had with Word for Windows 6,)

      5. Alan Edwards

        Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

        > Why not having a mail or messagin app tile (on the desktop)

        > showing you incoming messages?

        Because the window containing what you're actually working on will be in front of it, unless you have a 3rd (4th etc) monitor just to display the desktop tiles.

        You're probably better to use a Windows tablet for that.

        1. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

          Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

          Great, only my tablet wont be running Windows.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

            "Great, only my tablet wont be running Windows."

            I'm sure Microsoft will eventually have an upgrade to Windows option for your tablet too.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

          "You're probably better to use a Windows tablet for that."

          I find it better to use a phone mit Blinkenlicht for notifications. If it looks important I can open the mail client, otherwise send a quick reply without having to move anything on the desktop.

          I don't need a third gadget.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

            "I find it better to use a phone mit Blinkenlicht"

            Did something fall on your keyboard?

      6. WP7Mango

        Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

        "Microsoft should replace icons with tiles fully. I would like to have tiles which can be resized and can look like simple icons (but yet display some info) when "minimized", or display more information when set at different sizes."

        You can already do this in Windows 8.1. Tiles can be resized, and the smallest size is a simple small icon. And if you want it to be static instead of displaying live data, then you can do that too!

        In Windows 10, apps appear as normal icons in the Start menu. You can optionally drag them to the Live area of the Start menu where they become resizable Live Tiles.

        And yes, the mail app tile (for example) already shows you different incoming messages depending on the size of the tile, or just a number when it's minimised to it's smallest icon to indicate the number of new messages. Other app tiles also show you tasks and status etc. It sounds to me like you haven't even used Windows 8.1.

      7. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

        > Microsoft should replace icons with tiles fully. I would like to have tiles which can be resized and can look like simple icons (but yet display some info)

        We have had dynamic desktop icons for twenty years or so--I believe Windows also has them. For more dynamism, you may want to take a look at what we call that Plasmoids in KDE, which are essentially interactive desktop icon-like things. They are also supported in Apple computers and, I believe, in Windows (e.g., Google Widgets?).

        However, I admit that even having written Plasmoids myself, I don't find them particularly useful aside from some limited use cases (e.g., weather).

        My point is that you seem to be trying to reinvent the wheel.

        1. king of foo

          Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

          So... Choice = good. New start menu gives me the choice to use either the familiar or the new, and to remove the new if I don't like it. Logical.

          Happy bunnies all round. Now... don't stop there MS, you're on a roll! The next update to MS Office 2007+ should let us choose to use the ribbon or return to using menus... and why not allow live tile fans to add some of them to the ribbon too? And have the ribbon as a sidebar if we want? And nuke it if we want.

      8. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Tiles should replace icons fully - everywhere.

        >Why not having a mail or messagin app tile showing you incoming messages? Why not tiles informing you about an application running tasks and status? Why not an "icon" whose info displayed can be customized?

        That's what the notifications area is for.

        Some contradiction here:

        "Microsoft should replace icons with tiles fully. I would like to have tiles which ... can look like simple icons ... Icons are a relic of the past..."

        So when I first log on what should all the various icons on my desk display, given that at this time the system is idle? I don't need the Word icon flashing up all my recent documents. Yes it might be nice to be able to right click on a desktop icon and immediately see a list of recent documents, but that is very different to having lots of icons simply shouting "look at me".

    2. Khaptain Silver badge

      This is something that I really do not understand either, the desktop is meant to be representative of our real-world physical desks. These tiles do not represent anything on my desk, they are not a natural evolution of anything that I currently use or require. They appear to be a solution looking for a problem rather than a functional fullfulment of particular requirement.

      The tiles, in my personal oopinion are distractions, I wouldn't want a 5 ou 6 little whirly gig things, or flashing lights on my real desktop, so why would I want these.

      The tiles are geared at the consumer rather than the worker. ie they are counter-productive and generally of very little added value for business.

      Edit : After clicking submit I saw LDSs comment above, interesting to see the 2 opposing views..

      1. Alien8n Silver badge
        Alien

        I can see the benefits in both scenarios, but once you're running any application the benefits of a "tiled" desktop disappears straight away. More useful would be the ability to attach fixed size "tiles" to the task bar (there's more than enough room now with the bigger taskbar real estate) for various applications. Such as email notifications or even status alerts (I'd love a status alert for the servers to see how they're running).

        Also at home I run some gaming servers, so some sort of application displaying network lag, users logged in etc would be useful there. But as you say, for the majority of people this would be fairly useless. How many people actually missed them when MS removed widgets?

        1. P. Lee Silver badge

          >More useful would be the ability to attach fixed size "tiles" to the task bar

          Like, er, KDE plasma widgets? Nice to see you can cut and paste text in a text window too. Well done MS!

          I see lots of holy war fodder fun in the report, but nothing that makes me want to spend money. Is this release is about: "Almost as good as Linux - please don't leave us!"? I'm not seeing the killer "upgrade from W7" difference.

        2. Paul 135

          this has existed for some time elsewhere...

          KDE Plasma widgets. It's a superior implementation to anything MS has here. Widgets on the desktop or "panel" (takbar) as well as a "Widget Dashboard" view if you want to have quick access to them. I also think the complete widget-based desktop works well and like the flexibility and organisation that the "folder view" widgets add for file access.

      2. Rob Gr

        Personally, I find the idea that the best we can do with the capabilities of a computer is build representatives of our real-world physical desks. I'm absolutely in favour of building new interactions that surpass those.

        Reminds me of Zuckerburgers vision for VR, which involved being to able to meet up with mates and watch a film, without actually meeting up with mates. Crap, and a total lack of imagination.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "Crap, and a total lack of imagination."

          Web 2.0 social media summarised in two phrases.

          I would say "in a sentence" but some pedant would probably pop up and say there is no verb. (Though there is an implied one, like the implied verb to be in Russian.)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @flugal

      "Icons seem to be an effective alternative."

      Agreed; I think the big issue or question is if these live tiles will replace or extend the use of icons. As long as people are given a choice then I think its a welcome addition.

      Keep in mind that MS also whacked the desktop "gadgets" in Windows 8, and some people actually used those too. For example; I have a weather & picture gadget on my desktop; one shows the current weather and the other random pictures which I got on my PC and some network storages.

    4. Trigonoceps occipitalis

      WTMP - not actually a word. We need a better acronym!

    5. kb

      If they can replace the Windows Gadgets? Heck yeah!

      One of the best things that MSFT foolishly tossed was the Windows Gadgets, it was VERY handy to have everything from CPU load to network usage in one easy spot along the right side of the screen...now if these new tiles can take that place so that merely clicking on the start button gives me CPU/RAM/Network usage data any time I want it then why not?

      I'll be finding out this weekend when I have the time to slap it on my netbook which I figure will be the perfect place to test Win 10, because if it kicks butt on an AMD Bobcat dual with a 5400 RPM drive? Then it'll fly on my desktops.

  3. Anonymous Blowhard
    WTF?

    What about Windows 9?

    Did they need to distance themselves from Windows 8 that much?

    1. Elmer Phud

      Re: What about Windows 9?

      Maybe they didn't want people to go:

      "Windows? Nien!"

      1. Fihart

        Re: What about Windows 9?

        What about Aston Martin DB8 ? Went straight from DB7 to DB9.

        Perhaps to avoid a model which became known as the "Deviate" and jokes from Clarkson if it ran wide on corners.

        1. Steven Raith

          Re: What about Windows 9?

          Or because DB8 is confusing to read.

          Which seems more likely....

          1. Fihart

            Re: What about Windows 9? @Steven Raith

            According to Wiki, Aston Martin named their car the DB9 instead of DB8 in case it seemed it was only available with a V8 -- and as they felt the 9 indicated that it was not an evolution from the 7 but a new design.

            1. Steven Raith

              Re: What about Windows 9? @Steven Raith

              Fihart, interesting!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What about Windows 9?

      It's in a lab somewhere running IPv5.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What about Windows 9?

      Windows 8 or Windows 10

      Dong or Poop

      All four still smell up the place

    4. markusgarvey
      Devil

      Re: What about Windows 9?

      YES!!!

    5. DustyP

      Re: What about Windows 9?

      Maybe MS are following the lead of Corel and Adobe and it will be called Windows X

    6. kb
      Windows

      Re: What about Windows 9?

      The rumor is that during testing they found a lot of the older yet still popular business software (Quicken cough Quickbooks cough) would look at Windows 9 and refuse to install because the code equated Windows 9 with 95/98.

      This honestly wouldn't surprise me as I've dealt with business software that was hardcoded to refuse to install unless Flash 7 and ONLY Flash 7 was installed so while we haven't any proof the rumor is true on the surface it seems logical.

  4. Zippy's Sausage Factory
    Coat

    The numbering makes sense now...

    Microsoft usually does a "bad release, good release" schedule. XP good, Vista bad. Win7 good, Win8 bad. So skipping 9 and going to 10 is to indicate that they've just skipped the good release this time...

    1. Rob Gr

      Re: The numbering makes sense now...

      Except that this meme doesn't actually hold up if you actually examine Windows releases.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The numbering makes sense now...

        Except that this meme doesn't actually hold up if you actually examine Windows releases.

        It's a coincidental rule of thumb. There will be exceptions.

      2. Version 1.0 Silver badge

        Re: The numbering makes sense now...

        Windows will be shite until they go to 11.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: The numbering makes sense now...

          >Windows will be shite until they go to 11.

          Don't you mean 11-SP1 ?

          1. John Tserkezis

            Re: The numbering makes sense now...

            ">Windows will be shite until they go to 11.

            Don't you mean 11-SP1 ?"

            Going on their past performance, I'd give it at least SP3.

    2. Amorous Cowherder
      Facepalm

      Re: The numbering makes sense now...

      Old urban myth and FUD, please do some reading.

    3. Herby Silver badge

      Re: The numbering makes sense now...

      No, what the "10" refers to is the year, like Windows 95. This indicates that whatever is released was supposed to be released in 2010, and probably would have made sense then.

      Of course the alternate explanation is that someone got a finger cut off and they count in base 9.

  5. Alan Bourke

    Windows 10?

    Insert 'Windows 2' binary-related jokes below.

    1. Elmer Phud

      Re: Windows 10?

      Back to the future -- Windows 1.0

      (on floppies)

      1. davidp231

        Re: Windows 10?

        So that would be a good ten thousand or so install floppies - 160k 5 1/4". Oh look there's that 10 again.

        Note: it probably isn't 10,000 but I'm sure all five of those digits would be in the actual figure, should someone be bored enough to work it out.

    2. Henry Minute

      Re: Windows 10?

      Oh poop! I was going to do this one.

  6. nigel 15

    Can't wait

    I've not been able to buy a new computer for the passed couple of years.

    i was lamenting he lack of clipboard support in the command prompt only yesterday.

    1. The Mole

      Re: Can't wait

      What lack of clipboard support? Enable click edit mode by default and then left mouse button copies, right pastes. Not particularly complex, although having keyboard shortcuts is a useful improvement.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Can't wait

        I think he was being sarcastic.

        As though, the main reason to upgrade their computer was to get clip-board support enabled by default in the command prompt that we never use.

        1. Khaptain Silver badge

          Re: Can't wait

          Must admit I didn't read it as sarcastic the first time either but now that you mention it yes it probably is.

          It's easy to read as though they were being serious though, since it is not obvious how to use clipboard support within a command window due to it not using the standard ctrl-c, ctrl-v shortcuts..

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Can't wait

            using the standard ctrl-c, ctrl-v shortcuts

            Oh dear, ctrl-c usually performs something entirely different on the command line.

            1. Khaptain Silver badge

              Re: Can't wait

              In linux definately.....in windows not a lot except for breaking out of batch files.

              1. Boothy

                Re: Can't wait

                Also in UNIX and derivatives, Ctrl-C (like in DOS/CMD) is normally the kill command, to break out of the current running script or process.

                UNIX generally uses Ctrl-Insert to copy, and Shift-Insert to paste. (Not always the case, but usually is).

                Linux using Ctrl-C/V to copy/paste at the command line, is rather none standard compared to other OSs.

                1. Spoonsinger
                  Windows

                  Re: "UNIX generally uses Ctrl-Insert to copy, and Shift-Insert to paste....."

                  This is also true for Windows 'Windowed' Applications - generally(*), but obviously not the CMD line. Always preferred Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert over Ctrl-C/V - Maybe my hands are too large or hang over the keyboard in a more UNIX'y fashion? :-)

                  (*) Most applications which don't support that seem to be cross platform jobbies.

                  1. blondie101
                    Linux

                    Re: "UNIX generally uses Ctrl-Insert to copy, and Shift-Insert to paste....."

                    Or just select (copy), middle-mouse (paste)?? In some places life is just good(tm).

            2. Someone Else Silver badge
              Go

              Re: Can't wait

              Now, if they'd only pull head outta ass and make ctrl-t transpose the two characters around the cursor, system wide, they might just have something!

              1. Paul 135

                Re: Can't wait

                "ctrl-t transpose the two characters around the cursor, system wide"

                What is your use-case for that?

                1. Someone Else Silver badge
                  Holmes

                  @ Paul 135 -- Re: Can't wait

                  What is your use-case for that?

                  Actor: One klutz-fuck typist (Hey! I resemble that remark!!)

                  Action: Typing any string of characters that approaches or exceeds 3 words. In that span of text, said Actor will invariably type two characters in reverse order (muscle-memory dyslexia).

                  Motivation: So as not to look like a complete fool to all and sundry, Actor would like to have a convenient way to correct the effects of said muscle-memory dyslexia with a minimum number of keystrokes possible (as keystrokes are a contributory cause of the initial problem identified in Action.)

                  Does that work for you?

        2. John Tserkezis

          Re: Can't wait

          "in the command prompt that we never use."

          <Blank stare> I use the command prompt all the time (as in regularly over the day). I wouldn't be able to do what I need to without it.

          If I didn't have a command line, I would may as well be using Windows 8. (Yes I know Win8 has a command line, that's not my point, it's that 8 was much hated and so difficult to get things done - See? are you happy now? It's no so funny when I have to explain a joke now is it!?)

      2. DougS Silver badge

        Enable clipboard on the command prompt?

        Until today I had no idea there was a way to enable clipboard on the command prompt! I still don't know how to "enable click edit mode" either by default or otherwise, but it is terribly shitty design on Microsoft's part that I should have to enable or learn to enable anything.

        The command prompt should have had normal cut and paste that works like everything else from day one, no one should have had to wait for the 9th generation of NT for this!

        1. Khaptain Silver badge

          Re: Enable clipboard on the command prompt?

          Open a command prompt window.

          Click Top left corner for the menu

          Select properties

          Enable QuickEdit Mode

          Now you can easily select text with the mouse and just hit enter to copy the text to the clipboard( obviously once in the clipboard you can paste into any other application)

          or

          Select and copy text from any other application then click on the command prompt window and Right Click ( it will perform a paste)

          All of the above can also be done using the Menu->Edit-commands if QuickEdit is not active.

    2. MacroRodent Silver badge
      Boffin

      Cliboard in proimpt (Re: Can't wait)

      > i was lamenting he lack of clipboard support in the command prompt only yesterday.

      Actually using clipboard with keyboard in command prompts does work in Windows 7, (and was in XP also). You need to enable "Properties" -> "Quick edit mode" in the window menu of the command prompt. The keyboard shortcut is unfortunately different from the usual Windows way: To get command window text into clipboard, you paint it in the window, then hit Enter. To enter text from clipboard, you press the right mouse button.

    3. Fluffy Bunny
      Boffin

      Re: Can't wait

      "clipboard support in the command prompt " - I run Windows XP at home and it has clipboard support. You simply have to go into the properties dialog and enable quick-edit support. Use the mouse to select some text, press enter to copy it to the clipboard, or right-click anywhere in the window to paste text already in the clipboard at the current cursor position.

  7. Lionel Baden

    testing procedure.

    Give it to a large sample of people without the ability to google problems.

    I felt much shame as a techie when i had to google how to turn off my god damn (win8) computer :(

    Microsoft answer of just closing my screen or press the power button for sleep mode wasn't really what i was looking for.

    And when they call in for the invetible question of Huh how do i do that, i used to do that, give it a rating.

    1. Elmer Phud

      Re: testing procedure.

      "I felt much shame as a techie when i had to google how to turn off my god damn (win8) computer :("

      Techie?

      Never tried alt-F4?

      Or alt/cntl/del to bring up the Task Mangler?

      1. b166er

        Re: testing procedure.

        WIN+R

        shutdown -s -t 00

        ENTER

        1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

          Re: testing procedure.

          and you expect 'Joe six-pack' to remember that?

          1. davidp231

            Re: testing procedure.

            Pressing the power button on the machine itself?

            1. Buzzword

              Re: testing procedure.

              Except none of those options work on a remote desktop. Rebooting a Windows 8 or Windows Server 2012 machine remotely is an exercise in frustration.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: testing procedure.

                Eh? Just run "shutdown /r /t 000" in the CLI. Done.

                Do it often? Put a batch file on the desktop. Double done.

                If you are doing remote admin on servers, you should know WTF you are doing.

                1. This post has been deleted by its author

              2. Irongut

                Re: testing procedure. @Buzzword

                Step away from the remote server, you aren't qualified to operate it. Perhaps the McD's fryer would be more your level?

                shutdown -r -t 00 - will work to reboot every version of Windows, remote or not, and you should have known that.

                1. John Tserkezis

                  Re: testing procedure. @Buzzword

                  "Step away from the remote server, you aren't qualified to operate it. Perhaps the McD's fryer would be more your level? shutdown -r -t 00 - will work to reboot every version of Windows, remote or not, and you should have known that."

                  Oh, so you're one of those sysadmins who drives across town to press a fucking power button instead of doing from your chair?

                  Or did you think the shutdown command will shut down all running instances of windows on the network simultaneously? Holy crap, you are one of those aren't you?

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: testing procedure. @Buzzword

                  Shutdown -f -r is more effective

              3. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: testing procedure.

                And none of those options worked on a system MS 8.0->8.1 update crippled. The solution that worked was shutting down via the 'charms' menu. I've no idea why that should be any different to any of the other options, but it did the job...

              4. d3vy

                Re: testing procedure.

                "Except none of those options work on a remote desktop. Rebooting a Windows 8 or Windows Server 2012 machine remotely is an exercise in frustration."

                Really? Ctrl+ALt+End gives you the screen with the options to lock log off etc, bottom right there's a power button, right where it was in XP/Vista/7/8/8.1 etc...

                Most of the remote machines I work on we have the option to shut down from the start menu disabled anyway... its too easy to accidentally shut down a physical server in a remote data center... then you become the guy that shut down the company web server... you never live that down!

                I really dont see the issue with the shutdown being hidden away.. makes sense for remote machines that you don't want to accidentally kill and for my local PC.. well there's a power button on the front.

                People always used to complain that you had to click "Start" to shut down... well you don't any more :)

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: testing procedure.

          shutdown -s -f -t 0

          Fixed it for you.

          But only use -F if the power consumption is worth more than whatever process will be head-shot by the Task Mangler.

      2. John Tserkezis

        Re: testing procedure.

        "Never tried alt-F4? Or alt/cntl/del to bring up the Task Mangler?"

        You've entirely missed the fact that EVERYTHING is so vastly different in 8, that no sane person would even think the methods they've been using for eons would still even work.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: testing procedure.

      I had to Google the solution, helpfully provided by Microsoft, of how to reveal the desktop on a Surface 2 with the as-loaded Windows 8.0: Swipe the right for Charms, click the Search, type in "DESKTOP", and when it is thus revealed, click it. Someone should hang.

      Obviously there are ever-easier methods now. Non-issue, now.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: testing procedure.

      That was my second problem, the first time I saw windows 8 I was asked to install a printer on a brand new laptop, because the admin guy couldn't figure it out.

      Took me 10 minutes to realise that it wasn't a linux desktop. installing that printer with the correct drivers took over an hour..

      Anon, obviously.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: testing procedure.

        "Took me 10 minutes to realise that it wasn't a linux desktop. installing that printer with the correct drivers took over an hour.."

        Really? 10 minutes despite the menu button on the bottom left being an MS logo?

        Even if you mean windows 8 (before the start button came back) how could you not know that it was windows...

        Command prompt header:

        "Microsoft Windows [Version ****]

        Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved."

    4. Lionel Baden

      Re: testing procedure.

      in my defense to some of the comments .......

      My power button just put it in standby, Alt F4 is generally not the considered way of shutting it down.

      I could of even just held the power button for 7 seconds.

      Shutdown commands work yes.

      I think a few of you have missed the point i was making.

      one of the simplest of tasks became obscured and complicated.

    5. Jes.e

      Re: testing procedure.

      For all you folks giving funny retorts to this individuals need to google how to shut off windows.

      I have a techie friend of my own with the same problem. Needed to make some changes in the BIOS.

      Problem is Windows 8 doesn't actually shut down when you do the power thing.. it goes into a *quick shutdown* mode.

      This is so it can start *up* faster..

      1. h3

        Re: testing procedure.

        It does if you do it from the option that is in the menu obtained by win key + x (Always does a full shutdown).

    6. Amorous Cowherder
      Facepalm

      Re: testing procedure.

      "I felt much shame as a techie when i had to google how to turn off my god damn (win8) computer.."

      After 25 years in IT, coding and admin on Windows and Unix, even mainframe systems and yet...my 9 year old daughter had to show me how to shut down my new Win8 install! Oh that's shame and humiliation you never full recover from!

      1. Lionel Baden
        Angel

        Re: testing procedure.

        To some of you,

        Thank you for your kind words of inclusion :)

  8. Anonymous Bullard
    FAIL

    OK, it's a "new generation" of Windows, yet the killer feature is it's familiarity with an older version.

    What else is new... virtual desktops (about fucking time! but will it handle all my apps at once??), "Edit mode" enabled by default on console boxes (nice to have, I guess), tiling Windows (not a bad thing), and integration with "Azure".

    So basically we're now paying (and re-building) for service packs?

    Yippee. Pass me my wallet.

    1. Ol' Grumpy

      Playing Devils Advocate (I'm neutral as far as my opinion of MS goes) what are they supposed to do? Windows 8 seems to be pretty much universally recognised as a pile 'o crud and from a marketing perspective, anything branded under the Windows 8 banner - even a Service Pack that fixed all these problems will be tarred with the same brush and avoided by the Enterprise as much as 8 or 8.1 just as Vista was.

    2. Adam 1 Silver badge

      > What else is new... virtual desktops

      Yes. Definitely new. Not available on Windows XP, that is for sure. There are also no options for Vista, 7 or 8 so glad this is finally coming.

      1. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
        Pint

        PowerToys - multiple desktops

        I've had those for so long that I'd literally forgotten that they weren't part of XP.

      2. PatientOne

        @Adam 1

        I've been using virtual desktops on XP for years. Yes, it needs a 3rd party app to access but the functionality is there and mostly it works fine.

        Why didn't MS release it before? Because it *mostly* works fine. There are bugs. So why not let a 3rd party write something to utilise the virtual desktops side of windows so those who know of the app can experience the feature, blame the 3rd party for the bugs, and when it's working and the bugs are ironed out, release it as a WIndows feature.

        Or is that too Machiavellian?

        1. Adam 1 Silver badge

          @patient1

          Deskman is/was always a *Microsoft* powertoy. It is not third party any more than the .net runtime could be considered third party.

          Desktops was made by sysinternals but Microsoft bought them out a few years back (one of their more sensible acquisitions) so that is third party in the same sense that Skype or Nokia are third party.

      3. John Tserkezis

        "> What else is new... virtual desktops Yes. Definitely new. Not available on Windows XP, that is for sure. There are also no options for Vista, 7 or 8 so glad this is finally coming."

        Have I missed something? I've been using virtual desktop software for ages now before Microsoft cooked it in. Like people have been using encryption on their machines before, or anti-virus, or browser, or any host of other software...

        What is so vastly different and better about this particular virtual deskop, other than it's just the latest of a line that's now cooked in, that's going to make me stop using what I've been using and move to theirs? And more importantly, why should I go out and get Win10 just for this one feature, when I've comfortably (and in many cases, wisely) gone for third party apps?

        1. Adam 1 Silver badge

          >Have I missed something?

          I thought the download links in my comment would suffice as a sarcasm tag. ;)

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ref. skipping a generation

    and then there was Windows 20...

  10. EddieD

    The downvote button is on the right.

    I like Windows 8.1 (I was fairly happy with plain 8)

    Okay, I have 2 monitors, and one has a desktop interface (using Classicshell), one has the Metr^w Moder^w tiled interface, and it works wonderfully. I have my work windows on one side with Outlook, the design environment I use for experiments etc, and the other has my recipe app, stocks and shares - it's a good mix. I can bounce from one interface to the other with out much hassle (click on an icon...).

    At least Windows supports interface changes/alterations/replacements - it may be a bit of a faff, but there's google out there, it's not too hard.

    Okay, it may be better if there hadn't been such a wrench, but if back in 94 there had been the internet around we'd probably still be using Progman 'cos of folk complaining about the start menu...

    1. Anonymous Bullard

      Re: The downvote button is on the right.

      but if back in 94 there had been the internet around we'd probably still be using Progman 'cos of folk complaining about the start menu...

      Program manager was still included until XP, and you could still use it as your default shell if you wanted.

      Besides, replacing progman with the taskbar/start menu/explorer was applauded.

      1. Alister Silver badge

        Re: The downvote button is on the right.

        Besides, replacing progman with the taskbar/start menu/explorer was applauded.

        Ooh, no, no it wasn't, there were howls of anguish from most established users.

        I can remember the discussions that took place when we got our first '95 machine, everyone huddled round it trying to work out what all this right-click rubbish was about. It took a long time for us as a company to accept the change.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So what is new in Windows 10?

    I find it somewhat odd (for lack of a better word) than the highlight of a new operating system is a startup menu.

    1. Anonymous Custard Silver badge

      Re: So what is new in Windows 10?

      Personally I'd say the highlight is that they've vaguely listened to what people were complaining about and what they wanted.

      It looks like a step in the right direction, although whether it's too little and too late is another question, as is if they can manage to botch the "One Windows" concept again by giving us "features" in places where they have no place in being. There sadly I do not hold out much hope.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So what is new in Windows 10?

        vaguely listened to what people were complaining about and what they wanted

        But we've been bitching about it since the preview. They though they could force us all to use it, without a choice. The same type of thing happened with VS2012.

        The (arrogant) explanation on MSDN probably received the most negative comments (and least stars). Sinofsky suddenly left the company 2 months after the launch.

        This arrogance (among many other things) made me re-consider and subsequently switch my entire development environment and skillset - and I thank Microsoft for that.

        1. dogged
          Stop

          Re: So what is new in Windows 10?

          > But we've been bitching about it since the preview

          No you haven't. The preview had a start menu until the final pre-release version when it was removed without explanation.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: So what is new in Windows 10?

            No you haven't. The preview had a start menu

            Sorry, I was on about the start screen. It's always been there.

    2. John Tserkezis

      Re: So what is new in Windows 10?

      "I find it somewhat odd (for lack of a better word) than the highlight of a new operating system is a startup menu."

      You get a virtual desktop manager too. Because no-one, ever in the past history of mankind has every used one of those.

  12. MikeyD85

    Anybody want

    to buy some "much cheaper than they were originally bought for" windows 9 domain names?

    Looking forward to playing with the dev preview!

    1. Arctic fox
      Windows

      Re: Looking forward to playing with the dev preview!

      Me too. Got a cheap and cheerful notebook equipped with a touchscreen that I use for this kind of testing. (IE I don't care that much if a possibly unstable build bricks it - albeit temporarily). It will certainly be useful when discussing the os here at El Reg - after all one wouldn't want to post a comment on something one knows bugger all about - although that does not seem to stop some people. ;-)

      1. BigAndos

        Re: Looking forward to playing with the dev preview!

        I'll be giving it a spin as well, I have a laptop I'd like to give it a try on. I remember doing the same with Windows 8 and thinking "wow it boots quickly, even in a VM" followed by "why the hell would I pay money for this baffling mess?". Be interested to see if anything in Windows 10 actually makes me want to get my wallet out.

        Speaking of which... I hope they reviewing the pricing a bit. £100 is just too much for a home user to consider paying for an OS upgrade these days, no matter what new bells and whistles.

        1. Arctic fox
          Windows

          @BigAndos Re: "..........I hope they reviewing the pricing a bit."

          Well their pricing for Win 8 Pro (a period of special offer it has to be noted of course) was the keenest they'd ever sold a new Windows edition for. Furthermore, most of the jungle telegraph on the net does seem to be indicating that they will be fairly radical with WinTen especially toward customers with Win7 or Win8. That is not too hard to believe given that (whatever one personally feels about Win8) they have something of a marketing hole to dig themselves out of and their ambitions for the future, one experience across all devices plus the cloud would seem to predicate something fairly "encouraging" with regard to WinTen pricing. Bluntly put, they cannot afford to fuck up with this one, especially in terms of the enterprise market - that is alpha and omega for their (still) new CEO and I am assuming (as a working hypothesis) that he is smart enough to realise that he has to a) deliver a user experience that buries the hostility the Win8 provoked* and b) set prices that will really cause people to sit up and take notice.

          *I personally am not anywhere near as hostile to Win8 as many who post here clearly are but that does not blind me to the objective fact that 8 pissed off a lot of techies (both professional and amateur) and thoroughly confused a lot of the great retail unwashed. This is something that Redmond absolutely has to do something about.

          1. BigAndos

            Re: @BigAndos "..........I hope they reviewing the pricing a bit."

            Yeah I didn't mind Win 8 THAT much, I just saw no particular reason to go and buy it that outweighed the hassle of learning the confusing new interface. The other reason I missed out on the cheap upgrade offer was that of course no one sane buys a microsoft OS before SP1....

            1. Arctic fox
              Windows

              @BigAndos Re:"...........no one sane buys a microsoft OS before SP1....."

              Well, that was certainly justified with regard to XP. The release version was as buggy and unstable as hell and could best be described as a beta. It was considerably less horrible after SP1 and became a genuinely usable OS (in its time and context) with SP2 (I ignore SP3 because that was largely a roll-up of previous updates). Vista most of us prefer to forget (with or without service packs) and Win7 was damn good right out of the box. Win8? I think I will let that one go without comment - a number of fellow members of our little congregation here at Vulture Hall get into something of a lather on that subject! We will see - that is why I am interested in testing the Technical Preview.

  13. MJI Silver badge

    Bring back the flag

    That new Windows logo is shite, bring back the coloured flag

    1. Martin-73 Silver badge

      Re: Bring back the flag

      I agree, went to download a program the other day, and it used (as is common) the apple logo for mac version, a cheery penguin for linux, and some orrible thing I thought was to do with mobile phones for the windows version

  14. Risky

    The funny thing is that when I first used windows 8 I immediately thought that the metro/start/tiles thing could really work well as a "smart" start menu with live tiles and so on. I was thinking that if you could lock it to a secondary touchscreen display it would be an excellent place for notifications and tickers and the start menu......................

  15. brimful

    Let's hope

    it's more of a "Windows 10" than a "Windows 1, oh"

  16. sandman

    Peak operating system?

    Allow me to introduce the ridiculously overused concept of "peak" to operating systems. If this one's any good we'll have a glut of pretty good operating systems. We can all think of improvements to our favourites, but most of them do more or less what you want most of the time. It's getting harder and harder to get excited about new releases and in a lot of cases many of us don't bother for a year or three. Unless some startling new tech or vital security fix comes along, why should we? Operating Systems are just there to let you do other stuff, their intrinsic value is limited.

    I can see a time when the only time you pay for an OS is when you eventually buy a new computer. (Linux users - possibly not even then).

    1. MacroRodent Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Peak operating system?

      Very true! The role of an OS is basically manage the hardware reliably, provide some common services a lot of programs use, let the user start the programs he/she really is interested in and switch between them, and otherwise STAY OUT OF THE WAY! Earlier OS'es often failed in some of these areas, so new versions were justified, but now all major OS'es cover the basics. Nobody (except a few nerds) is interested in running an OS itself, it is the applications that matter. And an OS upgrade frequently ruins the experience here. No wonder people stick with XP...

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Peak operating system?

      >I can see a time when the only time you pay for an OS is when you eventually buy a new computer.

      Where have you been all these years! for many users that has always been the case. Remember one of the common statements made by people running XP was that their n-year old system still worked and they saw no reason to mess around upgrading the OS, they would simply wait until the hardware died.

      Outside of the MS tech crowd the only people who were into OS upgrades were businesses, where being able to reuse a few thousand systems purchased in the last year or so, rather than simply replace, was cost effective.

  17. RyszrdG

    Not another Windows release - yawn....

  18. Jungleland
    Thumb Down

    Look out! Its the "Son of Clippy"

    From the announcement blog http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2014/09/30/announcing-windows-10/

    "Snap enhancements: You can now have four apps snapped on the same screen with a new quadrant layout. Windows will also show other apps and programs running for additional snapping and even make smart suggestions on filling available screen space with other open apps."

    Oh dear.

    1. James O'Shea Silver badge

      Re: Look out! Its the "Son of Clippy"

      That's not Clippy. Clippy actually had some redeeming features. (I think.) That's Rover the dog from Microsoft Bob. People always forget Bob whenever lists of the Worst Thing Ever From Redmond come out. I remember Bob. I will never forget Bob. Bob is a major reason why I run Macs as my personal systems. Thank you, Microsoft, for Bob and making it quite, quite, QUITE clear that you lot were, one and all, complete idiots. (Although I must admit that not even Microsoft was silly enough to use Comic Sans in Bob, so even Bob has at least one redeeming feature.)

      for further info on things Bob, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Look out! Its the "Son of Clippy"

        Yes. Clippy did have one redeeming feature. You could turn it off.

      2. Martin-73 Silver badge

        Re: Look out! Its the "Son of Clippy"

        Bob. Eugh. I have a copy of that running on win3.1 in a VM (or is it running on 95?)... the most annoying thing, aside from the 'wtf is this widget, or is it just decoration' feature, is the SLOWNESS of the dog

  19. silent_count

    Multiple desktops?

    Honest question. Can the "multiple desktops" under Win10 do anything more/better than Win7 + Dexpot?

  20. Stretch

    " the puzzle is why it has taken Windows so long to catch up"

    Yeah. Gotta say I have wanted this for years and years and years. When I'm working I have a whole load of programs making up the "state" of a project, if you will. Arranging these on separate desktops has always been something I have thought would make context switching easier.

    If programs on "hidden" desktops could be set to suspend that would be handy.

    A feature I'd love to have is a Windows 10 tablet as a screen of my Windows 10 PC. I'm sure they can do this for games too if Valve manages it. Perhaps this is already mentioned and I missed it.

  21. Cuddles Silver badge

    From the department of "No shit, Sherlock"

    "Microsoft’s thinking is that making these apps run seamlessly on the desktop will improve user acceptance and stimulate developer interest in the platform."

    It's almost as though having programs that can be easily installed, uninstalled, and actually run is the whole fucking point of an operating system.

  22. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

    Proper clipboard support

    Is long, long, long overdue on the command line. Admittedly, there is the conflict between Ctrl-C copying, or cancelling certain apps, but I'm sure it's not too heinous to allow it to pass the keypress to the running application first if need be.

    I wonder if they'll fix the other hideous bug in Explorer (and it IS a bug in the eyes of anyone who is remotely security conscious), where file extensions are hidden by default, so some joker can write a malicious executable with the word document icon and fool people into running it, because they can't see it's called 'sales.exe' and not 'sales.doc'. Yes I know Windows pops up a warning when you try to run a random .exe file this way, but I also know that users habitually click through message boxes without reading them, and this 'feature' is incredibly annoying for a number of other reasons.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Proper clipboard support

      That Windows Explorer "feature" has been with us nearly 20 years now.

      1. Irongut

        Re: Proper clipboard support

        You know you can show the extensions again with a few mouse clicks? Its the first thing I do after installing Windows.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Proper clipboard support

          You know you can show the extensions again with a few mouse clicks? Its the first thing I do after installing Windows.

          Indeed, and you can disable the ShellShock backdoor in Linux by replacing the 'bash' binary, which is just a few clicks.

          The fact that it's the DEFAULT must be irrelevant to you.

      2. peter_dtm

        Re: Proper clipboard support

        so that is 20 years of abject stupidity then

        it is such a stupid concept; where the hell did they ever come up with it ?

        along with some 15 other defaults - mosty in Explorer

    2. Boothy

      Re: Proper clipboard support

      Agree, "Hide extensions for known file types" is usually the very first setting I un-tick when loggin into a new PC.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dangerous precedent

    Mac OS X - success

    BlackBerry OS 10 - commercial failure

    Windows 10 -

    Do alternate OS 10s alternate success and failure, or is this a linear function?

    On one model Windows 10 saves Microsoft, on the other it digs a deep trench and buries it.

    1. James O'Shea Silver badge

      Re: Dangerous precedent

      Son, it's Win OS X Yorkie...

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft, you surprise me

    A couple of useful features, and you didn't decide to follow Apple and call it Windows X. You seem to like copying everything else they do.

    I'll bet the Command prompt still lacks the sort of terminal sequences that VT220 supersets like xterm and rxvt have had for decades though and probably looks at me funny when I run ./configure && make && make install. But small steps, we at least have copy and paste working more naturally.

    Virtual desktops? Welcome to 1990. You might've gone somewhere had you released something like this in 2004.

    I think we call this, Windows 10 Years Too Late.

    1. N2 Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft, you surprise me

      Au contraire...

      X is the Roman numeral for 10 hence: Windows X

  25. blokedownthepub

    version?

    Will it be version 6.4.x , though?

    1. Zippy's Sausage Factory

      Re: version?

      I saw an MSDN post that discussed that very issue. Apparently it will be Windows 10.0 and not Windows 6.4

  26. Jim 59

    "Store apps can run in a resizable desktop window"

    A resizable desktop window. That people might actually want. Now there's a novel idea!

  27. John Styles

    Windows 10 = Windows X = X Windows

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Windows X: It's the cross we bear…

    2. blondie101
      Trollface

      It's Wayland now isn't it? Or MIR?

  28. John Robson Silver badge

    And there was m...

    ...thinking that that was what the major version number was for.

    "The update, which skips a version number to signify a new generation of Windows"

  29. Ian Emery Silver badge
    Boffin

    apps are isolated from each other and from the operating system, making them safer for users"

    (A cut down quote as it is too big otherwise).

    This old fossil remembers the Amiga boasting this feature, about 10 years before most of the El Reg readership were born.

    (All those naughty coders ignored it and went straight to coding for the hardware - hence all the early stability problems).

  30. Doctor Huh?
    FAIL

    Yawn

    So, Microsoft is previewing an OS that "skips a version to signify a new generation of Windows" and won't be fully baked for another year. The stunning innovations contained therein are features that other desktops (oooh, multiple virtual desktops) have had for one to two decades and reversals of previously made bad decisions (Welcome back Start button. We spent a pile of dough in '95 to get people to press Start to shut down their computers, and it must have worked, because man-oh-man did people get irked when we took the button away).

    It must be Xbox keeping Microsoft in business, because it surely isn't "innovation" like this. Is _anyone_ really waiting for Windows 10? Here is the question for the geniuses at Microsoft: if they hadn't put a bullet in XP, how many people would STILL be running it? Here is another question: despite the lack of official support, how many people ARE still running XP? It simply stuns me that 4 subsequent generations (Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, and now Windows 10) have failed to improve on a 13 year-old OS in any significant way, other than to plug security some security holes.

    Of course, Office is cut from the same cloth. Microsoft has made it "collaborative," has put it on a subscription model (benefitting Microsoft, and not the customer), has made a complete hash out of a formerly usable menu structure, and has invented several new file formats to confuse and delight, but is there _anything_ significant that a new copy of Office can do that a vintage copy of Office 97 can't? Microsoft can't even compete with itself (from almost 2 decades ago), much less with the plethora of free products out there that are perfectly adequate for day-to-day document processing needs.

    This used to be the most feared competitive company in the industry. Now, it is like the unmasked Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi -- a pasty-faced, overweight former tyrant with some good in it.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Virtual Desktops

    Congratulations! Perhaps they will even add Activities by release 13? :-)

    Who knows, Windows 25 may even come with a network-transparent desktop.

    Wasn't there a time when "innovation" didn't mean "catching up with everyone else"?

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Aero Glass is back!

    Easy on the eyes, just like Windows 7, no kludges. No more strong-colored windows edges.

    Multiple desktops, at last. One for Work, one for Gaming, one for Social, one for Media...

    That Windows logo with 4 rectangles™ could mean something again.

  33. theloon

    finally features used since the 1980's make it to Windows

    Better late than never I guess. Desktop innovation is soo dull and kinda over now.

  34. Stephen 11

    Wireless Profiles...

    So, lets see if they have fixed the clusterfsck that became managing wireless profiles in Windows 8. Want to edit an existing wireless profile in GUI? Sorry, can't do that. Must delete and re-create it.

    Will be interested to see if they fixed that in 10.

  35. RTNavy

    This was a demo for CORPORATIONS

    Lest you forget, this presentation is for the WORK computer where your employer doesn't want you spending too much time tinkering with your desktop and, stock tickers, fantasy sports leagues, and Facebook/LinkedIn, Pandora, XBox etc.

    They want you able to quickly, safely and productively etc. So this arguing over "tiles" and "icons" etc is really a moot point.

    The desktop needs to be manageable, reliable and functional.... That is why there should at least be a 'PRO" version and a "HOME" version especially if they want Business to replace their Billion plus desktops world wide with any new Windows product.

  36. The Grump
    Mushroom

    Oh, please...

    I use one (1) app at a time. I DON'T NEED multiple desktops, virtual or not. And what guarantee do we have that our existing software will run on these "desktops" ?

    I am a Windows user from DOS through Win 7. Win 8 was Microsoft's "New Coke" - something brand new that nobody wanted. Have they learned from that ? It appears not.

    This new half Win 7, half Win 8 is an attempt to please everyone that will end up pleasing no one except fanatical Windows fanboys. "Wow, I LOVE Windows 8, and I'll LOVE Win 10 even more". Yeah, those fanboys. Businesses have spoken - many still run XP because it just works. I win Win 7 because some of my software required it. But I will not touch Windows 8 (or 10).

    Win 8 was simply an OS too far. Cell phones are cell phones, and computers are computers. Who cares what the desktop looks like, as long as you can find what you want quickly (without using a damn touch screen - fried chicken and touch screens, not a good combination). When MS creates an OS that simply does what YOU (not microsoft) want it to do, I'll buy it. Meantime, Win 7 is good enough for now.

    Nuke, because I would like to tie Win 10 to that detonation. BURN !

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oh, please...

      So you're saying that: because you don't want it, we shouldn't have it?

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wow, we had Windows 8, then almost over night 8.1, and then a couple of months later Windows 9. And now talk about Windows 10. I wonder when they will reach Windows 95? They say that life goes in a circle.

  38. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
    IT Angle

    My questions

    Will you need to have a remote account (a la Windows Store)?

    Will it include Media Centre?

    Will it include "cloud storage" turned on by default?

    Will it be available for a sensible price to offset what I paid for a copy of Windows 7 to replace the TIKFAM rubbish preinstalled on my new laptop?

    1. 420Penguin

      Re: My questions

      Testing W10 now:

      Will you need to have a remote account (a la Windows Store)?

      You'll need a Outlook.com account (or Hotmail)

      Will it include Media Centre?

      It has XBox Music & XBox Video apps, and Windows Media Player (but you have to search for it)

      Will it include "cloud storage" turned on by default?

      Yes, One Drive.

      Will it be available for a sensible price to offset what I paid for a copy of Windows 7 to replace the TIKFAM rubbish preinstalled on my new laptop?

      Why didn't you just install Classic Shell for free?

  39. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    "Nice idea; but do users actually want live tiles on their Windows desktop?"

    This one doesn't, and can't understand whay anyone else would either.

    "...skips a version number to signify a new generation of Windows..."

    But...even numbered Windows releases are always infested with problems of the most virulent stripe and abandoned a year or so later in a flurry of "let us never speak of this again". Look at Windows Millenium Edition (yesyesyes the real millennium was 2001 but you lost that war along with the hacker/cracker one Mr Pedant) and of course Windows 8.

    Far better to have dumped 10 and stayed with 9 or gone with 11.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bah!

      I think what the marketing droids were trying to say was that this Windows goes 'one better again' than Windows 8 (hence 10).

      However, I grant you, by that kind of 'logic', they could just as well have arranged for an amplifier graphic to appear at start up, with '11' crudely stencilled onto a the end of a ten point volume dial...

      1. Stevie Silver badge

        Re: Bah!

        Agree. Upvote.

  40. Oninoshiko

    Windows 10? I guess 7 8 9.

    As much as crap as I've give Microsoft over TIFKAM, I suppose I should should commend them on recognizing and correcting their mistake, rather then doubling down on it (which was, honstly, what I expected).

    Good job.

  41. markusgarvey
    FAIL

    Tiles are for floors...

    If tiles were such a big fail that they skipped a version number, why have them at all?...

  42. 420Penguin

    Catching up to Linux

    I've been playing with Win10 today on a 6-year-old Athlon64x2 w/ 2Gb RAM and I'm impressed that it runs as quickly as Windows 7 does on this machine. The menus and other functions are pretty likable for Windows and even IE looks snappy. However I've been tricking my Windows friends with my Linux Mint laptop (also 6 y.o) themed to look like Windows. I've been showing them the "improved" menu, virtual desktops, tiling, and a host of other features, some of which I'm seeing in Win 10. The Linux world has had many of these features for years. In fact, I think I like Win 10 because it reminds me so much of running Linux with the Cinnamon desktop environment.

  43. david 12 Bronze badge

    >multiple virtual desktops

    >Another key feature is multiple virtual desktops. The engineering for multiple desktop support has been in Windows for years, but has now surfaced for the first time. Mac OS X and Linux desktops have this feature, so the puzzle is why it has taken Windows so long to catch up?<

    Because F*ing virtual desktops are F*ing useless. Yes the engineering has been there for years: yes you can install multiple desktops on Win98, 2K, XP, XP2p2, Vista, or Win7 (dunno about 8). No, hardly anybody ever does, because it's a worthless feature.

    Even on a non-Windows PC, where the broken X-Windows derived interface means you need to have a separate screen to get a proper separate window, only self-important sys-admins and self-imagined development gurus use virtual desktops.

    Demonstrably more useful is a Large Virtual Desktop, as on the iPhone or on the Kaypro Osborne 1. That was never supported by Windows, or by third-party add-ins: it was only ever supported by Device Drivers from card makers. Does Win10 support that technology?

  44. tiger99

    M$ - THE TRUE TRAILING EDGE OF TECHNOLOGY

    I am sure that my Linux machines all had multiple virtual desktops in the mid 1990s.

    Now just what else were they very late with? 32 bits, and again 64 bits. Demand-paged virtual memory. Proper seperation between user and system space. Serial over USB drivers that work, seamlessly. Proper security features. The web browser. Sensible disc partitioning, with user data not in the same partition as the system. Mountable drives. TCP/IP. IPv6. (Please feel free to add more...)

    What were they in the lead with? The truly innovative BSOD, text by Ballmer. Bob, by Mrs. Gates. New forms of security hole, guaranteed by ActiveX. New forms of non-compliance with standards, led by IE and Outlook. New forms of illegal monopoly.

    Considering that well over 50% of interactive computing devices (phones, mainly Android, tablets and web servers account for most, along with the odd supercomputer) now run Linux or a UNIX derivative (BSD in the case of Apple), are M$ even relevant now?

    1. Stevie Silver badge

      Re: M$ - THE TRUE TRAILING EDGE OF TECHNOLOGY

      "The web browser."

      But they *were* first to make the "proper*" web browser free - or did you miss the sticker price on Netscape Navigator?

      I can make a very good case that MS shaped the development of how the web should look and feel.

      But no-one needs all those knee-jerk downvotes, so I'll sit on my fingers.

      * there were many ways the cognoscenti could browse the web for free in them days, of course, but doing so was a pain and involved giving up what most people would expect in terms of ease of use and functionality.

      1. Pookietoo

        Re: free web browser

        MSFT could afford to give it away because they never paid for it.

  45. J J Carter Silver badge
    Coat

    I was hoping for more skeuomorphism

  46. LJK

    Waiting for something worthwhile...

    I haven't seen anything in all the Windows X hype worth spending additional money on. I currently use mostly W7 and W8. I get many BSODs a day with W8, so W7 is still my favourite and W8 offers nothing extra anyway.

    I have installed Classic shell for years, so all my PCs look like something between W2K and W7, wherever possible.

    I run Libre office, so have no use for other MS bloatware. In fact the only reason I use MS is that I have to. Most of the CAD and other SW I use runs only on it.

  47. William Hinshaw

    Tiles in the start menu? Can we get an option to do away with that horseshit? Live tiles introduce needless drag on everything. I need an option that will turn all the tile crap off and take it back down to what a start menu should be.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019