back to article Microsoft WINDOWS 10: Seven ATE Nine. Or Eight did really

Microsoft has shown off Windows 10, and described it as a blend of Windows 7 and 8. Redmond thinks the new operating system is so revolutionary, it skipped over version 9 and went straight to double digits. "We will carry forward all that is good in Windows," Terry Myerson, executive vice president of the operating systems …

  1. Christoph Silver badge

    "right down to embedded devices such as life-support systems."

    Is that something that El Reg interpolated, or were Microsoft actually insane enough to suggest that and beg for an endless stream of jokes about it?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Sorry I can't give you more than one upvote

      Honestly!

    2. Steve Channell
      Happy

      Life support systems is actually going to be pretty neat

      This is not about hospital systems or "real" life support microcontrollers, but the LCD display panel which is about as life-critical as the speedo on a car. It is neat because it means they're going to go though the certification process.. which means there'll be Smart-Watch that does something that's actually medically useful.

      The bit about XBOX running winten means that the Kenetic control from the xbox will be integrated into the OS and the dump "chimes" gesture will actually be useful

      If they don't f3ck it up, could be the first "post-touch" (as in no more greasy fingers on PC display) OS

      1. getHandle

        Re: Life support systems is actually going to be pretty neat

        "Windows could not find a pulse. Please wait while we search for a solution online..."

        1. JJKing

          Re: Life support systems is actually going to be pretty neat

          "Windows could not find a pulse. Please wait while we search for a solution online..."

          What happened to the "call a friend for help" option?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Life support systems is actually going to be pretty neat

          "Windows has no pulse. Please wait while ... we ... guhhkkkk ... "

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Life support systems is actually going to be pretty neat

            And that'll be Bill Gates's last moments. Justice!

            (I'm not wishing him dead, just wishing upon the cause)

        3. VinceH Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Life support systems is actually going to be pretty neat

          ""Windows could not find a pulse. Please wait while we search for a solution online..."

          Sounds like the ideal time to bring back the annoying paperclip.

          "You appear to have died. Would you like some help with that?"

          1. Tom 13

            Re: Life support systems is actually going to be pretty neat

            "The embedded OS on your pacemaker does not appear to be Authentic. Please contact Microsoft Support for further information."

        4. Fungus Bob Silver badge

          Re: Life support systems is actually going to be pretty neat

          ""Windows could not find a pulse. Please wait while we search for a solution online..."

          Have you tried turning the patient off and then back on again?

    3. Anonymous Bullard

      It makes the blue screen of death sound even nastier.

      1. Tom 35 Silver badge

        But it will just say something happened...

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Me, hooked up to Microsoft Windows-based life-support?

      Over My Dead Body.

      1. TheOtherHobbes

        >Windows-based life-support?

        It's not for you. It's for Microsoft.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Over My Dead Body

        Gives a whole new meaning to the Blue Screen of Death.

      3. JDX Gold badge

        Loads and loads and loads of medical devices already run on Windows, such as x-ray scanners, etc. "that's not a life critical system" you might say but Windows is controlling how much x-ray radiation you are exposed to...

    5. Philip Stott

      Death support systems

      Windows for warheads anyone?

      1. trog-oz

        Re: Death support systems

        The Royal Navy already runs "Windows for Warships" in it's submarines. I assume Clippy pops up and says "Would you like help launching that Trident missile?"

        1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

          Re: Death support systems

          Wont Clippy actually say "It looks like you are trying to start a thermo-nuclear war, do you want help with that?"

          1. davemcwish

            Re: Death support systems

            Surely Clippy would say

            "How about a nice game of minesweeper?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Death support systems

        "Windows for warheads anyone?"

        Is that V2 of Windows for Warships? (As used by US and British Navy - including for tactical command and control systems on nuclear weapon equipped ships!)

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Death support systems

        "Windows for warheads anyone?"

        There actually *is* a "Windows for Warships", as implemented by (I believe) UK military contractor 'Billions Above Estimate' (BAE) on that reassuringly expensive whatzitcalled? UK boat.

        According to the TV documentary I watched, Windows For Warships (the entire network) crashed within about a minute of starting its first war training exercise.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows for warheads anyone

        I did once receive a support email showing a screenshot from something developed using a UI/Graphics library I worked on with "Warhead" and "Target" where you'd normally expect the "File" and "Edit" menus.

        Anon since I'm not sure we should even have seen a screen-shot of that particular piece of software.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      ""right down to embedded devices such as life-support systems."

      Is that something that El Reg interpolated, or were Microsoft actually insane enough to suggest that and beg for an endless stream of jokes about it?"

      Most medical devices already run Windows or Windows CE, so nothing new here.

    7. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
      Pint

      Microsoft's new Windows operating system 10

      To be marketed as Windows OS X *.

      The portable derivatives will be called Windows Xp.

      * To avoid TM confusion, the tiles will not have rounded corners.

      1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        Re: Microsoft's new Windows operating system 10

        But will be coded by macaques.

    8. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
      Pint

      80 inches in size

      "...a single operating system that will run on everything from the largest screens – 80 inches in size ..."

      What a stupid thing to say. I've seen any-old Windows projected onto huge screens at an IMAX theatre. Way bigger than 80 inches. So where did "80 inches" come from? Will Win 10 not work when 84 inch screens are released next month? Stupid.

      1. DropBear Silver badge

        Re: 80 inches in size

        Let me translate - I think they were referring to the presumably astronomical resolution of such a larger display (but that's not what they said, agreed). Thing is, try reading anything in the standard 10 point font on a eleventy-billion pixel screen; even full HD monitors become problematic unless one cranks up the windows font size - at which point hilarity ensues with lots of apps that were designed / laid out for one and exactly one font size (the default). What the new Windows intends to do about it I dunno - my hunch is poor apps will still look poor, they'll just pay better attention to system stuff working at least...

        1. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: 80 inches in size

          dB "Let me translate..."

          But 80-inch screens are typical 1080p. Perhaps 4K sometime soon.

          Are you suggesting that they were claiming that the OS could handle 80-inch retinal displays? ~400 dots per inch, for an 80-inch display? Nice try, but that proposed explanation fails the sanity test.

          Thus leaving my point intact. Thanks for trying.

          1. Matt_payne666

            Re: 80 inches in size

            recently got a 70" 4k display and without font scaling I can still read the text...

            it is silly, mind! and makes me grin when using it!

    9. Tom 13

      Re: "right down to embedded devices such as life-support systems."

      It'll give a whole new meaning to a "Code Blue!"

    10. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yes they did say that

      Not only that --- Windows runs on many, many Point of Sale terminals (think Target, Inc.) and ATM machines....and cars too. They run it on hospital machines too......so why do you think they constantly release security patches????? Thank your local terrorist Russian hacker.......

      1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

        Re: Yes they did say that

        "Windows runs on many, many Point of Sale terminals (think Target, Inc.)"

        What a coincidence.

  2. Bob Vistakin
    Facepalm

    Yaaaaawn

    Did I miss something?

    1. dogged

      Re: Yaaaaawn

      You missed the opportunity not to comment on a Microsoft story because they're so dull and irrelevant to you.

      Oh wait...

      Clearly they're not.

    2. Turtle

      @Bob Vistakin

      "Yaaaaawn . Did I miss something?"

      Yes.

      1. king of foo

        Re: @Bob Vistakin

        Nein...

    3. Captain DaFt

      Re: Yaaaaawn

      Apparently, yes.

      And it's not even new News, this was announced back in 2013!

      http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-windows/microsoft-skips--too-good--windows-9--jumps-to-windows-10.html

      'Tis a sad day when an April Fools joke becomes Microsoft's plan for the future.

    4. Anonymoist Cowyard

      Re: Yaaaaawn

      Nope. Microsoft still delusional that they think people care about their too little, too late, too confused offerings.

      1. Purple-Stater

        Re: Yaaaaawn

        "Nope. Microsoft still delusional that they think people care about their too little, too late, too confused offerings."

        I really disliked W8's metro look, but this (W10) I really like. I like W7's ability to slideshow my favorite photos as my desktop background. I did like the functionality of W8's Live Tiles, but not enough to lose the desktop slideshow. So, W10's presumed ability to give me the same W7 desktop, but then throwing in the ability to just hit my Windows key (finally making that key relevant!) to quickly browse my Live Tiles for relevant updates, is absolutely fantastic. Comfort and convenience, who can ask for more?

        And while I still like Windows XP, I do have several machines at home with more modern CPUs that could really use an upgrade to a 64-bit OS.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Yaaaaawn

          "I did like the functionality of W8's Live Tiles, but not enough to lose the desktop slideshow."

          Slide-show is a cosmetic feature. I'm more disappointed that no version of Windows later than XP natively supports desktop stretching across multiple monitors. If you are running Windows later than XP you have to shell out for a Quadro card that supports Mosaic to get that functionality.

          "And while I still like Windows XP, I do have several machines at home with more modern CPUs that could really use an upgrade to a 64-bit OS."

          You know there is such a thing as 64-bit XP, right?

          1. Lionel Baden

            Re: Yaaaaawn

            @AC

            Worse than loosing the native desktop stretching in XP (yes i loved it too) I used to run 3 soundcards !

            I found in weirdly useful and loved it, but moving to windows 7, it would only run 1 card at a time properly :(

            1. David Lawrence

              Re: Yaaaaawn

              Grammar/Spelling Pedant Alert.....

              Loose = slack, spare eg "He's playing fast and loose"

              Lose = opposite of 'gain' - get beaten in a game, mislay something etc etc.

              Looser = something that is relatively slacker (such as your ability to speeka de lingo)

              Loser = someone who didn't pay attention during english/spelling lessons at age 9 and still posts stuff with basic errors in it.

              1. aqk
                Headmaster

                Re: Yaaaaawn

                Oh, stoppit!

                Sadly, you must have been borne too loose.

          2. Purple-Stater

            Re: Yaaaaawn

            "You know there is such a thing as 64-bit XP, right?"

            At it's height, 64-bit XP had crap for driver support, and now it has no support at all. Hardly a viable candidate.

            1. David Lawrence

              Re: Yaaaaawn

              Grammar Pedant Alert

              Why sir I do think you mean "At its height.....". IT'S = contraction of "IT IS". That is all.

        2. Chika
          Megaphone

          Re: Yaaaaawn

          The term "your mileage may vary" came to mind as I heard the mention of "reworking the charms bar". Yes, they have brought a reasonable attempt at a start menu back but they are foolish to believe that this was the only niggle that people had about W8 and the "charms bar" was certainly one of these niggles.

          In fact the biggest niggle of all was really the whole swiping business. Swiping from the various edges was what got them into trouble in the first place, especially as these gestures were far from intuitive. Redesigning is a good start but they need to make sure that they have addressed all the necessary points (context, continuity etc.) or they will just end up with the same mess they had when W8 came out.

          A re-badge of "10" isn't necessarily going to work if the product is inferior (just look what happened to the XBone) and trying to persist with a combination of one system for many platforms needs to be weighed against the end result on each. As was rightly said in the article, W8 was seen to be unfairly angled at a small sector of the market that Microsoft had no real presence in at the expense of a market with many millions of users.

          There's a reason why Windows XP still persists with some people and why Windows 7 was such a big seller and still dominates the market (and why Vista and W8.x was such a flop) and unless Microsoft can produce something that ticks all the same boxes (cringe - I HATE using phrases like that!) and stops trying to be something that it isn't, Windows 10 is doomed to failure.

          But these are early days. Let's wait and see whether they produce the next best thing or crap it all up again.

        3. aqk
          Windows

          Re: Yaaaaawn? There IS a SLIDESHOW on Win 8

          I have both Win 8 and Win 8.1.

          The photos slideshow runs very well on it. In fact I have a two-monitor desktop on my 8.0, and the slideshow rotates differnt pictures for each monitor (but all part of the same slideshow).

  3. Robert E A Harvey

    cynical remark

    10 is twice as far from 8 as 9 would have been.

    1. AJ MacLeod

      Re: cynical remark

      Exactly what I was going to say. I can't see anything even slightly revolutionary about it (other than MS backing down a little bit perhaps) - they're clearly distancing themselves from the Windows 8 disaster as much as possible.

      I had thought they might go for another non-numerical name in an exact reverse of the way they went back to numbers to distance themselves from Vista...

      1. dogged

        Re: cynical remark

        > I can't see anything even slightly revolutionary about it

        Well, not yet. But if they actually take notice of the feedback, that'd be a new thing.

        1. JDX Gold badge

          Re: I can't see anything even slightly revolutionary about it

          If it genuinely runs across all form factors, without forcing the same UI on all of them, that would be something neat. Writing one application with separate UI interfaces depending if you're running it on phone, tablet or desktop for instance... MVC architecture making a big come-back!

      2. Brian Miller Silver badge

        Re: cynical remark

        "they went back to numbers to distance themselves from Vista..."

        Even though Windows 7 reports that it's version 6.1, and Windows 8 reports 6.3. I wonder if Windows "10" will report that it's version 6.4? Incremental versions mean incremental changes, though! Tweaks! No radical changes, move along...

        1. dogged

          Re: cynical remark

          To be fair, those are kernel versions.

          OSX and most linux distros are equally out of step on published "version" vs kernel version.

          1. P. Lee Silver badge

            Re: cynical remark

            >OSX and most linux distros are equally out of step on published "version" vs kernel version.

            True, but neither OSX nor Linux ask you to pay for those incremental releases - or any others.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: cynical remark

              "True, but neither OSX nor Linux ask you to pay for those incremental releases - or any others."

              Supported versions of Linux charge - for instance Red Hat - as does Apple for some updates to OS-X. .

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: cynical remark

                Supported versions of Linux charge - for instance Red Hat

                RHEL users have chosen to pay.

            2. Don Dumb
              FAIL

              Re: cynical remark

              @P Lee -

              True, but neither OSX nor Linux ask you to pay for those incremental releases - or any others.

              Err, unless I misunderstand your point, that could barely be more wrong with respect to OSX.

              Don't confuse 'free' with 'at no additional charge' - it's a common mistake which marketers love to exploit. You can only install the software on Apple hardware, OSX isn't free of charge - you buy Apple hardware which comes with OSX included at no additional charge and Apple may (or may not) charge for upgrades to the software. That is definitely NOT free (as in beer).

              In fact, I'm not sure whay you think that Apple doesn't charge for an incremental release to OSX. In the last five releases Apple charged a fee for upgrading to Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion and Mountain Lion. In fact, as far as I can see, the only release of OSX Apple haven't charged for is the most recent, Mavericks. But, again, even that is in no way to be confused with 'free'.

        2. Phil W

          Re: cynical remark

          In fact the kernel may be quite different but the version number was kept at 6.x for compatibility. Some developers make their software perform prerequisite checks based on the NT kernel number. It was left at 6 after vists to help compatibility with such software.

          This is an old issue. Some 32 bit apps wouldn't install in XP 64 bit because they checked for kernel version 5.1 and 64 bit used 5.2.

    2. Fibbles
      Coat

      Re: cynical remark

      Should've just gone all the way to 11.

      Mine's the one with the guitar picks in the pocket.

      1. Gordon 11

        Re: cynical remark

        Should've just gone all the way to 11.

        Since it's only ever the odd-numbered releases that are any good?

        1. Ian 55

          'Only ever the odd-numbered releases that are any good'

          Anyone saying that never used Windows 1.x

        2. Vic

          Re: cynical remark

          Since it's only ever the odd-numbered releases that are any good?

          Have you not seen Spinal Tap?

          Vic.

    3. Trigonoceps occipitalis

      Re: cynical remark

      Perhaps it's binary - TIFKAM version 2.0

    4. Tom 13

      Re: cynical remark

      They could be trying a play on the old IT gag there there are 10 kinds of people in the world.

      More likely, 9 was such a disaster even their devs decided to kill it.

    5. Mark 65 Silver badge

      Re: cynical remark

      Just wondering how much software might be parsing the OS name and using OSName.StartsWith("Windows 9") as a Windows 95/98 shortcut?

  4. Joe 48

    Missing 9 - A bad idea, and here's why.

    Microsoft are like star trek. Every other one is good. Might be a mistake missing 9.....

    Or do they know it'll be crap???

    1. Nigel 11

      Re: Missing 9 - A bad idea, and here's why.

      It's a mistake in Chinese ... 9 is one of the few lucky odd numbers in Chinese numerology ...

      This is partly owing to the fact that the number 9 has traditionally been associated with the emperor (viz. the number of rooms in the Forbidden City) and partly owing to the fact that the sound byte for "nine" is close to that for the word "longlasting"

      So Windows 10 won't be with us for particularly long and it won't be taking over the world.

      1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

        Re: Missing 9 - A bad idea, and here's why.

        Clearly MS isn't particularly worried about Chinese numerology since 8 hasn't seemed to prosper.

    2. Andy Gates

      Re: Missing 9 - A bad idea, and here's why.

      Even Star Trek movies and odd Windows versions. I'm a'feared.

    3. Arbiter

      Why every other is better

      TICK - tech changes, rough around the edges, cognitive dissonance

      TOCK - incremental refinement, cognitive resonance

      Intel does the same thing (tick = new, tock = refined)

  5. Forget It

    10 in roman numbers is XP with the P extracted

    1. stucs201

      Dammit, I shouldn't have stopped to read the article before posting that myself. Have a thumb,

    2. Steven Raith

      I thought it was Windows 8 that was taking the P?

      Apologies.

      Steven R

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        "I thought it was Windows 8 that was taking the P?"

        That would be Viii....and that starts a whole other argument with the Emacs Evangelists!

    3. VeganVegan
      Joke

      It's actually Windows OS X

      Redmond, start your copiers!

      It's getting too easy to make fun of Microsoft.

      1. Captain DaFt

        Re: It's actually Windows OS X

        My first impression was, "Win Ten?... Rin Tin Tin?

        Are they admitting that they're deliberately skipping the version that would be good (IE: Windows 9), and that their next release will be a dog?

        1. Chika
          Happy

          Re: It's actually Windows OS X

          So you believe that it'll be a bit ruff?

      2. Gordan

        Re: It's actually Windows OS X

        WindOS X, surely?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's actually Windows OS X

        " It's actually Windows OS X "

        Presumably the over 2,000 security vulnerabilities to date in OS-X won't go amiss then....

    4. Tezfair
      Coat

      it's binary...

      Windows 2, we are going back in time

      1. dogged

        Re: it's binary...

        Maybe it's base8.

        1. Hi Wreck

          Re: it's binary...

          No, 8 is not a number in base 8. It could be base 9 though. But then again, it might just be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us

          None the less, I wonder when they are going to release Windows Mountain Lion?

  6. Robert E A Harvey

    Slight dissapointment

    cynical remarks aside, my disappointment is that I will have to wait 6 months longer before building my post-XP MACHINE.

  7. Dave 126 Silver badge

    Winx...

    ...sounds better than Wince, I guess.

    EDIT: Since writing the above, I googled 'Winx'. SFW, but heck. An Italian animated series about fairies with strangely proportioned legs, rendered in more pastel colours than iOS 7.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Here we go again..

    The very early build shown off by Myerson, and Joe Belfiore, corporate vice president of the OS group, is going to be a single operating system that will run on everything from the largest screens – 80 inches in size – right down to embedded devices such as life-support systems. That's the dream, anyway.

    Is it just me or have they been down that route before (apart from the life support systems - no frigging way is THAT ever going to come near me)? Didn't work out so well last time, because it's built on the myth that a desktop OS with plenty of hardware around it has the same needs as an embedded platform that has to run on an as economic as possible scale, and (to make life really, really difficult for an outfit like MS) not crash too often, preferably never at all. The former can handle your average memory leak, the latter is, well, not really compatible with Microsoft's approach to coding. It would be too costly in hardware needs just to keep up with the patching.

    No doubt it will sell because they still have enough OEMs they can twist arms of (as there is really no other game in the PC world, let's be honest) but let's just say I have my doubts. Massively so.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Here we go again..

      Hmm, I never considered stipulating in my 'Living Will' the software used in the medical equipment used to treat me when unconscious. I just figured I'd leave it to testing by the regulatory authorities and the medical professionals treating me.

      More seriously, I'm not sure that the cost of hardware is the limitation it once was for having a Windows-based embedded system. There may well be other reasons to not use Windows, but these days hardware is pretty cheap.

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Here we go again..

        A life-support system running windows gives a whole new dimension to the term blue screen of death.

        Sorry, couldn't resist, shooting fish in a barrel time again, it seems

        1. Phil W
          Coat

          Re: Here we go again..

          Microsoft will off this free to poorer hospitals in Spain to try it out.

          Being Windows 10 it will suffer from the Blue Screen Of Diez.

          N.B. This only really works if you pronounce it the Spanish way rather than the Mexican/colonial way.

    2. Colin Brett

      Re: Here we go again..

      "Is it just me or have they been down that route before (apart from the life support systems - no frigging way is THAT ever going to come near me)? "

      I seriously doubt that, if you're ever in a situation where you need a life support system, you'll be in any condition to ask the surgeon "does that monitor, blood-pressure gauge, ventilator, IV system, run Windows 10? If it does, I don't want it near me!"

      Dave126 got there first :-)

      Colin

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Here we go again..

        I seriously doubt that, if you're ever in a situation where you need a life support system, you'll be in any condition to ask the surgeon "does that monitor, blood-pressure gauge, ventilator, IV system, run Windows 10? If it does, I don't want it near me!"

        No, but I'd like to ask you and Dave126 what you would do if a relative died due to a BSOD in a critical piece of kit. Not only would that company and its directors spend the rest of its days in court, I would also find out who the idiot was who took that decision in the first place and go after him/her.

    3. P. Lee Silver badge

      Re: Here we go again..

      >> single operating system that will run on everything from the largest screens – 80 inches in size – right down to embedded devices

      > Didn't work out so well last time

      One of the most serious points here. Apple recognised that if you don't make things different for mobile, you get badly ported apps which are unsuited for the environment (battery, wifi+LTE etc) and form-factor. Make devs build specifically for mobile and you get a better mobile software.

      So MS are still trying to leverage their desktop into mobile. It still won't work. Of course, their mobile OS is currently different (different APIs) and they get slated for that too. It turns out that lazy devs and hardware/OS manufacturers have conflicting wishes. Apple got around this by not leveraging their desktop and creating the market from scratch. MS need to stand up to their devs and make sure they have a better system, not just an easy one. TIFKAM (confusing desktop and mobile) is going to be a very costly mistake I think. Their only way out is the 2-in-1 laptop/tablet device where the company pays for the desktop OS and the tablet comes for free. It's a long game of attrition, but MS can afford to play it and it should work. The question will be whether there is any money in it by the time MS get there and whether the terrible security practises that come with mobile will be at all welcome on the corporate desktop.

    4. LDS Silver badge

      Re: Here we go again..

      If you properly modularize it, you can install on each system only the required modules, to keep the OS footprint and resource consuptpion low enough. That's why, for example, Linux can be adapted to run on different devices. And meawhile even embedded systems became much more powerful and with far more resources.

      If you ever gave a look to XP Embedded or 7 Embedded, you would have found something alike already. You believe that "Microsoft's approach to coding" never changes - but they are not so dumb as you like to believe. After all, Windows Phone is already far less resource hungry than Android...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Here we go again..

        "If you ever gave a look to XP Embedded or 7 Embedded"

        If you've ever developed with any of the Windows embedded versions, you'll notice in less than a day that they only have about 50% of the Windows API. They are very primitive.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Here we go again..

        After all, Windows Phone is already far less resource hungry than Android...

        To be honest, that would rather surprise me unless its with a massively reduced API. Do you have any evidence to back that up? MS has a corporate tradition of inefficient coding - you could already see that in the days of Win 3.1 when Borland as well as IBM both ended up with faster and more compact versions by simply using their own compilers instead of Microsoft's.

        1. dogged

          Re: Here we go again..

          There's several years' worth of evidence but if you want the simplest version (I suspect you do) then simply check how the HTC One M8 for Windows has 20% more battery life than the HTC One M8 for Android when the hardware is absolutely identical.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Here we go again..

            Windows has 20% more battery life than the HTC One M8 for Android when the hardware is absolutely identical.

            Fewer apps, less functionality, and less desire to use it.

            1. dogged

              Re: Here we go again..

              Right. So your argument is that under stress-testing video, fewer apps (because obviously, Android users install every single available app and keep them on the phone and running at all times) and less desire to stress test it by running video makes for better battery life.

              You're a fucking idiot.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Here we go again..

              "Fewer apps, less functionality, and less desire to use it."

              But faster, more efficient, more secure, better integrated and more stable.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Here we go again..

          "Do you have any evidence to back that up"

          They recently released the exact same phone with the latest Android and Windows Phone as different options - and Windows Phone has much longer battery life and much faster bench marks than the Android version.

          Hardly surprising - Windows 8.1 outperforms the latest Ubuntu in most benchmarks too.

    5. Dan Paul

      Re: Here we go again..

      Embedded XP or CE is still going to come near you every time you use a point of sale system or ATM in the near future. It HAS been for almost 20 years.

      Have fun waiting in the teller line.

      Personally I'd rather have an embedded version of Win 10 or Win 10 RT running an ATM console any day. Win98 and XP had way more memory leakage than Win 7 or 8 have, and expect 10 will be better. I don't remember ever seeing an ATM down except for being out of cash or not having a phone connection.

      The fact that MS are even trying to make a single OS do multiple types of equipment is commendable. There are lots of bits of Windows that don't have to be present to make the OS work so it can be smaller than the desktop version when applied to a phone or tablet.

      Give some credit where it's due instead of spreading more FUD about Microsoft.

      1. Steven Raith

        Re: Here we go again..

        Give Canonical credit where it's due, they've been working on a version of Ubuntu that scales on the fly from a mobile form factor to a full blown desktop, using the same kernel and packages (just a different UI) for a few years now. Including plugging the phone into an MHL link and running a full desktop from the phone - Hence Mir, they needed the extra flexibility of a custom display manager, X was too restrictive by far, and Wayland wasn't going in the direction they believed they needed to be going in.

        Microsoft deserve no credit for this at all, because it's not new, and their idea of 'cross platform' involves either crippled functionality (check out the size of the Windows RT API stack vs Windows 8) or having three code sources in one EXE, launching a different one depending on what hardware it detects - which I don't believe they've done yet, but which is about the only way you'll get an Office-class application (IE not a cut down 'metro version') running on a phone, tablet and desktop in any meaningful way on an NT6.x kernel.

        Microsoft need to tear the NT6 kernel to shreds, and start from scratch, using virtualistaion for backwards compatability - it's the only way it'll work.

        Steven R

  9. Vociferous

    Still ugly.

    And I bet it's infested with all sorts of cloud and proprietary ecosystem junk and animated crap for YOU the web 2.0 content consumer who is scared of files, options and settings!

    Still, the day my Win7's draws its last breath I may now at least have a viable alternative besides Linux.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Still ugly.

      "And I bet it's infested with all sorts of cloud and proprietary ecosystem junk and animated crap for YOU the web 2.0 content consumer who is scared of files, options and settings!"

      Sounds just like the crap that comes with Android.

      1. Vociferous

        Re: Still ugly.

        Yes -- but few people run Android on a real computer.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "... we’re not building an incremental product"

    So, it's excremental then.

    1. Steven Raith
      Thumb Up

      Re: "... we’re not building an incremental product"

      Sublime!

      1. king of foo

        Re: "... we’re not building an incremental product"

        Xcremental surely

    2. zen1

      Re: "... we’re not building an incremental product"

      ROFL "excremental"... that's friggin genius!

  11. i like crisps
    WTF?

    NO, THEY CAN'T DO THIS!!!

    They've gone and cooked Bill's NINES!!!!

    Yours faithfully,

    Dr M Hfuhruhurr.

  12. Paul F
    Alert

    Let's just call it Windows Future Space OS and be done with it already. Besides, naming things 10 is so Apple from 15 years ago.

  13. Bladeforce

    Still a big nono..

    ...its still got a mix of the puke looking windows 8 (no matter how customizable it is) and we all know in future versions they will slowly force you back onto the kindergarten UI more and more. No thanks I DO NOT need windows at all

    1. dogged

      Re: Still a big nono..

      There's a youtube video doing the round of a leaked build where you can remove all the Start Menu tiles.

      Here we go. Obviously, we don't know if that made it into the Preview build or not but it seems likely, given that's how tiles work in Win8.

      1. king of foo

        Re: Still a big nono..

        Nice. No full screen crapps, a start button, a familiar interface, say it ain't so... there must be a catch...

        ...it can't run crysis

  14. stucs201

    I wonder what the true version number will be?

    Just a .1 increment to 6.4 ? A whole number jump to 7.0? Or will they finally resync and make it 10.0.

    1. davidp231

      Re: I wonder what the true version number will be?

      Windows 7 only got a .1 jump from the abortion known as Vista, so I doubt it.

    2. veti Silver badge

      Re: I wonder what the true version number will be?

      The way I hear it... Microsoft (discovered with Vista) that they can never again use a "x.0" version number, because too many apps used brain-dead version detection of the form:

      if (majorVersion >= 5 && minorVersion >= 1) { run } else { forgetaboutit }

      ... which is why Win 7 is numbered 6.1, 8.0 is 6.2, etc.

      Seems to me it wouldn't be too rocket-sciency to include a "compatibility mode" that just pretends to be a working version of Windows when running apps like that, but what do I know.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I wonder what the true version number will be?

        Seems to me it wouldn't be too rocket-sciency to include a "compatibility mode" that just pretends to be a working version of Windows when running apps like that, but what do I know.

        Isn't that what the BSOD is for?

  15. Sebastian A

    So...

    "We will carry forward all that is good in Windows,"

    Were they not doing that with previous releases?

    1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

      Re: So...

      Evidently the answer is no. Why else would they have to reach back 3[?] versions to fetch the start menu?

    2. Mike Moyle Silver badge

      Re: So...

      "'We will carry forward all that is good in Windows,'

      Were they not doing that with previous releases?"

      Well, first they had to *FIND* something good, didn't they?

      I mean... Be fair...!!

      1. Shannon Jacobs
        Holmes

        "We will carry forward all that is good in Windows," says Terry Myerson

        I, too, was unable to imagine what that was.

        Natural result of the two key features of their highly successful business model: (1) Ignore actual users and sell only to makers who foist the OS onto the actual users. (2) Disclaim ALL liability for any mistake, no matter egregious and no matter how large the damages, making acceptance of that disclaimer a prior condition before you can use (not own) the OS.

        What part of "highly successful" has any relationship to good or ethical?

    3. Gordon 11

      Re: So...

      "We will carry forward all that is good in Windows,"

      Interesting to put that alongside "we’re not building an incremental product".

      So there was nothing good to incrementally build on?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So...

      So...

      "We will carry forward all that is good in Windows,"

      Were they not doing that with previous releases?

      To me, that is marketing speak for "crap, we have to start from the ground up" :)

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    WE! DONT! WANT! FSCKING! METRO!

    Can anyone make that plainer?

    1. dogged

      Re: WE! DONT! WANT! FSCKING! METRO!

      You don't.

      Speaking for everyone on the planet is a little presumptuous though, wouldn't you agree?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: WE! DONT! WANT! FSCKING! METRO!

        Speaking for everyone on the planet is a little presumptuous though, wouldn't you agree?

        Yep. Microsoft try to, and now they're back peddling like crazy!

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Long filepaths ? - NTFS has them, but Windows 8.1 doesn't !

    It is 2014 FFS !

    1. Vociferous

      "It is 2014 FFS !"

      You're not supposed to care about files. You're not supposed to even know where they are. You're supposed to just use the libraries and be happy.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Long filepaths ? - NTFS has them, but Windows 8.1 doesn't !"

      Yes it does. Maybe you need this? http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/2891362

  18. Dave Pickles

    Should have called it Windows 15

    It is supposed to offer the best of Windows 7 and 8, and will be out next year. 7 + 8 = 15, geddit?

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: Should have called it Windows 15

      Actually, I buy that, from a marketing standpoint.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Should have called it Windows 15

        Actually, I buy that, from a marketing standpoint.

        Well, I'd expect it from their marketing droids, but it's unlikely I'd buy it..

  19. jwb
    Meh

    Missed opportunity

    I can't believe they would skip nine and go directly to ten. They could have turned the release number ask the way up to eleven!

  20. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
    Coat

    The announcement makes me wonder

    Will it blend?

    OK, OK, I am leaving

  21. OrsonX
    Coat

    So, Windows 9 is called

    Windows 10

    hmmm...

    1. Anonymous Bullard

      Re: So, Windows 9 is called

      They skipped the good release!

    2. Gray
      Meh

      Re: So, Windows 9 is called

      I had predicted in another thread that MS would call it "WinOS9" but who knew they'd skip over 9 altogether. So ... WinOSX it is.

      Apple has used all the kitty names for their versions, so that leaves what ... canine names? Will it be WinOSX "Poodle" or ... heaven help us, WinOSX "Pit Bull" ?

      Laying under the table, licking its balls?

  22. mrtom84

    Make it free

    ...as in beer.

    Win8 pro (on release at least) was a quarter of the price of win7. That was what stirred me into reaching for my wallet and purchasing...and then promptly regretting it.

  23. Shane Sturrock

    Gamers only?

    WinTenDo.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Gamers only?

      WinTenDo.

      How are you pronouncing that? WinTen Doo (as in deep doo doo) or WinTen doh (as in what to say after you've done something really stoopid)?

      I'm pronouncing it WinTenDon't.

  24. Johndoe888
    Facepalm

    "There's the same task bar on the bottom of the screen with a Start button, but when you click on that the Windows 8 input becomes apparent".

    Tifkam needs to be off by default, with an option to turn it on if you have a touch screen and want it on !

    This is yet another opportunity for M$ to do things such as to show file extensions as default, rather than have folks blindly clicking on an icon with no idea what it is or what it could do ! File name.jpg.exe is not an image file, dragging and dropping a section of txt from office to your desktop does not mean that the .shs file that is made is a virus, but downloading "mypic.shs" probably will be :(

    Hiding file extensions is a major obstruction to educating users :(

    While it is true that "Silver Surfers" are of the age that pioneered the Internet but most of them did not, more users are becoming tech savvy via school and do not need the dumbing down of Windows !

    1. Maventi

      "Hiding file extensions is a major obstruction to educating users :("

      File extensions are are something users should never have to worry about at all. How about reading file headers and not marking all files as executable by default instead? Seems to work well for other operating systems.

  25. tempemeaty

    Time will tell

    Nice intro to Microsoft OSX. It seems to me there's more to be said later down the line about this OS when it's closer to release. More details. Sort of the other shoe dropping perhaps or perhaps not. Ultimately we wont know if this is a viable replacement for Windows 7 or even how usable it will actually be until more people get it on their PC's and other devices and report their experiences.

    As much as I hate saying...it appears this may be a step in the right direction so far for a company that has, over the years, been more adversary than ally to some of it's user base/customers. I hope they fixed things up well enough to carry on. That said I still don't trust in a single release that a whole company suddenly changes character. Only time will tell.

    Edit. @Iain Thomson, I also got a laugh at the "Windows Seven ate Nine" and the "NEIN" references in the articles tittle. You actually read our comments? LOL.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They should have played to the die hard XP users and called it Windows XP 2.0 - kind of saying just like XP, we got this one right.

    Seriously though, with the refocus on MSN, I wouldn't be surprised if it changed its name again before release to be MSN branded.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'll keep it on the back burner until at least...

    Windows 10 Service Pack 1

    ;-)

    1. tempemeaty

      Re: I'll keep it on the back burner until at least...

      Me thinks you seek to spoil my entertainment. LOL. ( -_^)b

    2. Tromos

      Re: I'll keep it on the back burner until at least...

      What if they go straight to service pack 2?

    3. 6th

      Re: I'll keep it on the back burner until at least...

      Sooo.... that would be Windows 15 then? I'm just going to go ahead and assume SP1 is not an incremental build either...

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'll keep it on the back burner until at least...

      Except they aren't doing service packs anymore. They announced a while ago that Win 8.1 Service Pack 2 would never happen and instead what they will do is incrementally release new features using what was once called "patch tuesday'.

      So eventually, every tuesday you'll have to look real hard and see if you are being patched for a security vulnerability or a new windows feature.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'll keep it on the back burner until at least...

        So eventually, every tuesday you'll have to look real hard and see if you are being patched for a security vulnerability or a new windows feature.

        .. or a US mandated backdoor.

  28. king of foo

    X

    I wonder how long before me arties finds me treasures. Arrrr.

    Should be easier to find the off button as well now...

    Er, files...

    It's never ending

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Skipping The Odd Version Number? Is This Really Wise?

    Anonymous Hero,

    Well, all I can say, is Windows 9 must have been the crappiest of crap OS releases Microsoft has ever put on a drawing board, if they feel so compelled to "jump over" their own naming convention, and shoot straight to Windows10. Why would they fall into a mason jar with Apple and produce a version 10? Probably because they weren't ballsy enough to actually call it Windows X and seem like a bunch of Steve Jobs fanboi's.

    Windows 9 would have also kept them in line with their ODD versions ROCK, even versions SUKBALLZ dogma.

    So clearly this is a monumental mistake. I agree with the article, this is what Windows 8 should have been 2 years ago. Sad it took 2 yrs and enterprises treating it like the Black Plague for the numbskulls in Redmon to finally figure out despite their world dominance of PC OS's they still can't force something crappy down our throats.

    I'll do like 90% of people will do when they get their hands on it, turn off all the "metro crap" and make it look and feel as much like Windows 7 as I can. Enough said.

  30. Len Goddard

    Classic start menu

    So long as this is one of the supported apps I'll be able to get back to my Win2K lookalike screen via XP classic mode/theme. I'll take familiarity over innovation almost any day.

    Hopefully the latest incarnation of Windows explorer will be a bit more reliable than the Win 7 offering.

    1. Tom 35 Silver badge

      Windows explorer

      Maybe they can fix the green bar of slowness.

  31. Anonymous Bullard

    With everyone skipping 8, MS also wanted to skip a version.

  32. Lostintranslation

    Yay, it's Windows 7.1. I can't wait to upgrade!

  33. Jes.e

    Seven ate nine

    Thanks for the Reboot reference!

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: Seven ate nine

      FINALLY! Someone gets it! Jesus fuck, I've been waiting all day for that. (I was sad when the subed didn't get, nor did ALL OF TWITTER.)

      THANK YOU.

      My faith in humanity is restored.

      1. P. Lee Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Seven ate nine

        And there was me thinking it was some sort of reference to borg cannabalism.

  34. Message From A Self-Destructing Turnip
    Windows

    "When the screen is detached to become a tablet, a prompt pops up asking the user if they want to switch to tablet mode."

    No! I am making merengues and just need an extra baking tray.

  35. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge
    Coat

    Combining the best parts of Windows 7 and Windows 8

    So, it's a relaunch of Windows 7 then?

    1. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

      Re: Combining the best parts of Windows 7 and Windows 8

      Sort of Windows 7A

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Where have I seen this before? (Hint: not at MS)

    "...a single operating system that will run on everything from the largest screens – 80 inches in size – right down to embedded devices such as life-support systems..."

    That would be the Linux OS wouldn't it? Already used everywhere from phones (Android), routers and the Raspbery Pi all the way up through servers and cloud providers (e.g. Amazon) to the largest supercomputers.

    Just saying......

    1. Tom 35 Silver badge

      Re: Where have I seen this before? (Hint: not at MS)

      But they are not daft enough to try and use the same UI on all of them.

  37. The Sod Particle
    Joke

    why jump to windows 10?

    Perhaps they thought windows, nein! was not a good idea.

  38. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    FAIL

    tiles on the start menu?

    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thank you.

    What's the betting that you get all that crap in Server 2015 as well.

    sorry Microsoft you have really lost the plot (again).

    Sigh, I bet the copiers (sorry GUI developers) in Canonical are already hard at work already.

    Boy am I glad that I'm close to retiring.

    1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: tiles on the start menu?

      The tiles take all of 5 seconds to remove from the start menu.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: tiles on the start menu?

        Yes, but you know there's a non-small chance of MS forcing a minimum of one tile in the start menu in the release version.

    2. Steven Raith

      Re: tiles on the start menu?

      I keep saying this, but having actually used server 2012 in anger since it was released, Modern UI on Server 2012 really isn't a problem. It's quite handy in some cases.

      Winkey>ADUC (I think just typing ACT will do it)>return = Active Directory Users and Computers - which previously was three levels deep in nested menus, or found (along with half a dozen other MMCs) as shortcuts on the desktop.

      It doesn't get in the way one jot, simple as that.

      But then, I have actually used Server 2012, so, you know, I might actually have a fucking clue what I'm talking about.

      Steven "Linux sysadmin" R.

  39. zen1

    don't care what they call it...

    It's still going to be full of vulnerabilities and be a pain in the ass, in some major way

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: don't care what they call it...

      "It's still going to be full of vulnerabilities"

      The last couple of major Windows releases - both server and desktop - have had much lower vulnerability counts than competing OSs like OS-X, SUSE or Redhat - so maybe not.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        Re: don't care what they call it...

        The last couple of major Windows releases - both server and desktop - have had much lower vulnerability counts than competing OSs like OS-X, SUSE or Redhat - so maybe not.

        Because you're including the entire collection of supporting software that comes with the OS. "Windows" is just the OS. SUSE and Redhat are distributions of 1000's of packages.

        Perhaps we should take a look at the number of reported vulnerabilities in IE, PDF and Java plug-ins, Outlook, not to mention all the crap bundled with other "free" software, or pre-installed.

        I also dread to think what could be found if the source code for any of this was released/leaked...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: don't care what they call it...

          "Because you're including the entire collection of supporting software that comes with the OS"

          It's still true with a feature matched Linux install. See the extensive work on the subject by Jeff Jones.

          "Perhaps we should take a look at the number of reported vulnerabilities in IE"

          Far fewer than say Chrome

          "PDF and Java plug-ins"

          Not part of Windows.

          "Outlook"

          Zero vulnerabilities to date in Outlook 2013. 1 ever in Outlook 2010.

  40. Nanners

    Nice imitation

    Why not just call it windOsX? Hope it works.

  41. Duffy Moon

    Where's the killer app?

    As a happy Windows 7 user, I can't see anything attractive enough about it to make me want to pay a large amount of money and go through the pain of reinstalling everything. Maybe if I had Windows 8, I might feel it was worth it, but I'll be sticking with 7 thanks.

    1. P. Lee Silver badge

      Re: Where's the killer app?

      > As a happy Windows 7 user, I can't see anything attractive enough about it to make me want to pay a large amount of money and go through the pain of reinstalling everything

      It isn't aimed at you, its aimed at businesses who will have to upgrade their Exchange servers to keep in support, which means they'll need the new Outlook client which only runs on OS-X.

      1. king of foo

        Re: Where's the killer app?

        ...in 2020

        They've well and truly missed the boat re XP emigration.

        Stop Fing about with the GUI and focus on delivering security, stability and compatibility/emulation. If windows could run anything/everything easily business would fall back in love with it. The hardware has got to the point where this is absolutely possible. The thing about "clouds" is that they drop this wet stuff on you and sometimes kill you with electricity. A return to client side applications may well happen. And they may well be iOS or android apps. How good would it be if windows could just run these "natively"? And we don't need them to be full screen... there's this concept that's been around for a while now where you run stuff in little "windows"...

  42. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
    Windows

    Windows 11

    With start-up music from Spinal Tap, obviously.

    I think they missed a trick there.

  43. thames

    Two GUIs in One?

    So they're unifying desktop and touch by using two related GUIs that automatically adapt themselves to the form factor? They're "unifying" desktop and touch? Perhaps instead of Windows 10, they could have emphasized that aspect and called it something like say, "Windows Unity".

    Now all they need to do is to rotate the bottom bar 90 degrees and move it to the left hand side of the screen and make the icons actively update with new status. That would make better use of modern desktop monitors, which tend to be much wider than they are high.

    Wait a minute, this is starting to sound vaguely familiar ....

    1. Bert 1

      Re: Two GUIs in One?

      No, no no...

      The start menu goes at the RIGHT side of the screen.

      In all seriousness, I do this mainly because in a multi-screen set up, it only appears at the bottom of the main monitor, but you can move it all the way to the side of the entire extended desktop.

  44. razorfishsl

    Wow we can call it OS X… Ah… no we cannot.

  45. Kepler
    Linux

    Mint indeed!

    For me the key word in the article may have been "Mint", in the top right corner of the Start screen shown in the first photo. It may have denoted the financial services Web site from Intuit, but it's also the name of the Linux distro I think I'm now even closer to switching to.

    1. Kepler
      Headmaster

      Re: Mint indeed!

      "the Start screen shown in the first photo"

      I meant the Start Menu, not the Start Screen. The photo's caption says "Start screen", but what the photo shows is the proposed new Start Menu.

  46. John Savard Silver badge

    Now They've Caught Up...

    with OS X, of course.

    Given the Mac's pathetic market share - however successful the iPhone and iPod may be - for Microsoft to still be suffering from Mac envy at this late date is a little ridiculous.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Now They've Caught Up...

      Given the Mac's pathetic market share - however successful the iPhone and iPod may be

      OSX <> iOS

  47. Bob Merkin
    Coat

    MS - fun with numbers again

    Windows One?

    Windone?

    Winbone?

  48. Amorous Cowherder
    Facepalm

    Jeez, you'd think they've just dropped the bomb!

    I do love the Reg commentards! "No way MS is coming near me!" Well what runs the tills in supermarkets? What runs most ATMs? What runs the controllers on quite a few SAN systems from well known manufacturers? Sure they're Not life critical I agree and I'm not a massive MS fan, and yes Windows is not bad but not great, but I do love seeing the fox in the "El Reg" coop, always guaranteed to shake things up for a laugh!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Jeez, you'd think they've just dropped the bomb!

      What runs most ATMs etc., ? Windows XP embedded, I think.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Jeez, you'd think they've just dropped the bomb!

        What runs most ATMs etc., ? Windows XP embedded, I think.

        What point are you trying to make?

        All that tells me is ATMs haven't been updated for years, there was no real choice at the time, and the users of those terminals don't care, don't see it, and don't have to maintain it.

        The banks made a bad move (with the benefit of hindsight), so the rest of us should also?

  49. Grikath Silver badge

    the number makes sense, actually...

    Given that win8 is a complete turd, especially on the user-end, but that at the same time the hardware is once again changing rapidly, requiring a number of structural changes in the interface, they *could* have kept going with win9. They could have *tried* to rebrand, but the stigma, well to be honest: shitstain, of Win8 would keep haunting them either way.

    The reason for "10" is already hinted at in the "Joke": MS considers this their first truly multi-platform OS, and as such the start of a new generation of their product line.

    So they'll probably want us to read it as 1dot0. Plenty of headroom for Marketing to play with there...

  50. fung0

    You can't fix stupid.

    "This is what Microsoft should have done two years ago with Windows 8."

    No it isn't!

    Microsoft should have touch-enabled Windows, and/or come out with a mobile OS. NOT crammed a whole new UI, a new programming model, a closed company store, and a new set of totally redundant 'apps' down users' throats.

    What's more, Windows 10 doesn't change any of that. Unifying 'Metro' and the desktop only paves the way for even greater confusion, as users try to figure out whether they should be swiping or clicking - or just cruising over to Apple.com to check out Macintosh prices.

  51. Esme
    Coat

    Finally! A version of Windows I love!

    WIndows 9 that is.

  52. stephajn

    Best of Windows 7?

    ....Then I want Aero Flip 3D back! One of the most useful keyboard shortcuts for me and even now, after having been using Windows 8.x since it was released, I still find myself pressing Windows Key + Tab and forgetting. I wonder where I could possibly ask for that back....or if they'd even listen.

  53. Michael Thibault
    FAIL

    Someone apparently has slipped more than a bit of random into the water table in Redmond.

    This will end in tears, I think, but Microsoft will long be able to afford--unfortunately--to pay people to be up'n'smiley about whatever-the-fuck they're doing with Windows any given day of the week.

  54. hammarbtyp Silver badge

    Surely its windows 2????

  55. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 7½

    a blend of Windows 7 and 8 would surely be Windows 7½

  56. ilmari

    1) Bundle win8 with classic shell

    2) Call it Windows 9

    3) Profit!

  57. John Sanders
    Windows

    Can I...

    Disable the live tiles in the start menu or not?

    1. gregthecanuck

      Re: Can I...

      I would expect that to be an option - either by simply unpinning them from the start menu and/or via a global start menu setting.

      I would like the option to put live tiles on the desktop.

      1. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

        Re: Can I...

        This IS Microsoft we are talking about here. What has that got to do with sense?

        No, I would NOT like to put live tiles anywhere.

        Well, maybe up the arse of the idiot that suggested them.

  58. WonkoTheSane
    Trollface

    The real reason 9 was skipped.

    MS Exec #1 - "Our next release will be Windows 9"

    MS Exec #2 - "But MS Indonesia already announced 9 would be a free update for 8 & 8.1"

    MS Exec #1 - "Bugger! We'll call it Windows 10 instead"

  59. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thanks for begrudging the start menu back.

    I hope there is an option to remove the shit from it. I use the start-menu to start things, not keep up to date with my pathetic life.

  60. gregthecanuck

    OK, it looks like the rush-job that was Windows 8 has finally been beaten into something that is usable. My first suggestion for W10 is to allow live tiles on the desktop.

    The Universal Application API also sounds good. I assume this is only for W10, but if the hints of free upgrades from 8.x to 10 are true then that's good news.

    HOWEVER

    As a developer the big, huge bonus would be for MS to back-port that universal API to Windows 7 and make that part of Windows 7 SP2. Some of my clients are only going to be completely rid of XP in the next few months (and installing Windows 7).

    Our product(s) are targeting Windows 7 (and Server 2K8/R2) as a minimum requirement. That means Win32/.Net which is supported on 7/8.x/10.

    Unfortunately we can't migrate to U-API since we must support Windows 7.

    What are the chances of U-API being back-ported? Probably nil. This will be MS's final hurdle to clear - the humongous installed base of W7. I suggest that until they "get it" and backport U-API to W7 their app store will continue to flounder.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I've been commenting on the missing back port to Windows 7 ever since 8 was announced, its so blinding obvious. Making it so that WinRT apps could only run on Windows 8 (but not desktop) was an incredibly naïve idea - why would I, as a developer, want to invest in developing for a new API until supporting systems have greater than 10% market share with good growth? Except in niche.

      Its hard to believe Microsoft decision makers would be so stupid to make the same mistake again and introduce a Universal API that would be available on fewer than 5% of PCs for over a year when its just a stroke of a pen to approve free updates from 8 to 10.

      On the other hand if foc upgrades is the plan why not say so and be done, why prevaricate and wind up users and developers alike to no possible benefit for the company. We can only assume some people in the company are playing corporate games - still not too late to dispose of them in the current round of layoffs Satya.

  61. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What are they thinking?

    The average Joe is going to be confused by this name and think that they've missed something with the sudden jump from Windows 8 to 10. Seems a bit of a daft move too when Apple are just releasing the Gold Master of OS X 10.10 and Blackberry are giving a renewed push to their Blackberry 10 OS.

    This was a good chance for a clean break for Microsoft, but there doesn't seem to be anything new or compelling here. It just looks like Windows 8 with the start screen cut in half and changed to the more familiar menu.

    So they've got Metro UI apps running in Windows within the more traditional Desktop and they hope that this will be the OS that they can scale from Smartwatches / Phones all the way up to Servers...

    While it will no doubt be a success in a business environment I think they may be fighting a losing battle when it comes to traditional users.

    I've been messing around with running Android Apps in Chrome and it is pretty neat. Once that gets a bit more refinement and a official release they then have the potential to wipe a lot of Microsofts business out.

    A Chromebook that can run Android apps, which can become a tablet and use those Android apps and syncs everything with your Android phone will be perfect for a lot of people and the OEMs won't have to pay to use ChromeOS

    Running metro Apps on the Desktop just makes me think of running Android apps on the Chromebook, but Microsoft will struggle to get OEMs to compete on price and performance with Chromebooks.

    I was expecting more from this version of Windows and while the listening to feedback thing sounds like a good idea in theory it is never going to fly unless Microsoft split their OS business in to 2 as you will have sysadmins / big businesses demanding more powerful features while any average punter who gets roped into to testing this will ask for simplicity and easy of use. Yep a great chance for Microsoft to go in two different directions missed I think and I expect we'll end up with another poor compromise

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What are they thinking?

      I've been kicking the tyres of Chrome apps, and I beleive this is the future, for consumers.

      The installation, updating, and removal of an app just works, looks the same on every OS, and no more having to download binary blobs, worrying if they contain "potentially(??) unwanted software", discuised as legitimate software just because it has an EULA, apps hijacking your home and search pages, apps installing themselves in every crevice of your computer.

      And from a developer point of view (and I have had ~15 years with MSDN), I found their offerings to be very good (almost exciting). If Tesco boost is on this christmas, I'll get one of these chromebooks.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What are they thinking?

      "The average Joe is going to be confused by this name"

      I think that the average Joe can count to ten...

    3. Darren Forster

      Re: What are they thinking?

      People will not be confused by the numbers jump, years ago Motorola jumped from the 68040 CPU to 68060 CPU's 'cos the 050 CPU was found to have the same floating point bug in it as the Intel Pentiums - but instead of releasing it they just skipped a version. Microsoft have done the same thing here - Windows 8 was a disaster, 9 had planned to be more Windows 8 and more of the things that people hated about 8, and so 10 is admitting they made an error and are starting to listen to people.

      I have Windows 8 on my computer and if it hadn't been for Start8 it would have been a disaster for me, totally unworkable on my two big screens, but after adding Start8 it's not too bad. I also have a number of customers who were really confused with Windows 8 when they first got it they kept calling me up, and once I put on Start8 for them the confusion subsided.

  62. ShelLuser
    Windows

    Told you so...

    Most has already been said, nothing more I can add to some of the already solid given arguments, but there's one thing I'd still like to get off my chest. Aimed towards people who I had some discussions with in the past (some good, some annoying):

    Told you so!

    The whole start screen had "fail" written all over it, something which most people immediately realized, and here we finally got our proof. Here's not saying the start screen is utter crap mind you. It has potential, it can be made to work, but only in the right place.

    I love the Metro environment on my (Windows) phone, it really works excellent there. IMO of course.

    But not on my PC; puhlease....

    SO, having that off my chest.

    Amazing; they now bring an enhanced start menu to Windows 10. Am I the only only one who looked at that and wondered: "Gee, did they look at KDE recently?".

    Because that's one of the things which I think KDE did very well: start menu sections (or whatever the official name is). One start menu, several sections which you can click. So basically several start menus rolled into one. I think that's impressive, even though I personally favour using XFCE4.

    Has Microsoft been looking at Linux lately? It sure looks that way to me ;)

  63. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Any chance of that ribbon abomination is going anywhere? Great for touch screens, but throws away 25 years of familiarity when the menus disappeared.

  64. CmdrX3

    Maybe they'll even fix the USB sleep problem which randomly causes joysticks and controllers to get switched off, and if they just chop of that whole bit of the start menu to the to right of the search bar, that would be good too.

  65. DrXym Silver badge

    Looking good so far

    The changes really don't constitute a 1.0 release bump alone a 2.0, but at least they're moving things in the right direction. The form of the new start menu gels with what I was thinking it would be as well as putting metro apps onto the desktop.

    The things I would be most fearful of is what Microsoft don't mention here - things like cloud storage, logon and so forth. We already saw in 8.1 how they aggressively pushed people to logon through their services and I could see that sort of thing expanding a lot with the OS pushing and cajoling people to buy/rent/use Microsoft backend stuff.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Looking good so far

      Yeh, but apart from almost fixing what they did to the start-menu - what else have they done that deserves a re-build?

      What have they broke this time?

  66. paulm

    Can't count

    Microsoft evidently can't count. Maybe this explains why the time remaining jumps all over the place when copying files around.

    1. Kepler
      Holmes

      Re: Can't count

      No shit!

      These are the same genii who thought to designate the first version of Windows NT "version 3.1",* who counted "1, 2, 3, 95, 98 . . ." when designating versions of the original Windows, who followed version 2 of Word for Windows with version 6, and version 1 of Word for Mac with version 3, and so on.

      * I've always been told that programmers and computer scientists start counting with zero, but apparently this isn't always the case!

  67. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Over on the Beeb they are saying that there's talk of making Windows 10 a subscription based OS. If this is true I assume there will still be a purchase up front option as well for a ludicrous amount of money. Going subscription only would be the thing that finally pushes me over to full time Linux use, to be honest I'd be there already if it was possible to run MS SQL under Linux.

    Over all what I've seen of W10 looks ok. I use W8 at the moment and to be fair once I got over the whole "OMG what's happened" of the initial install it's much like using W7. The whole Metro thing is still a PITA but I hardy ever find I need to go in there. I managed to transition my parents over to W8 with no problems so it can't be that bad :-)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I managed to transition my parents over to W8 with no problems so it can't be that bad

      I managed to transition most of my non-technical family/friends to Linux Mint or Chromebooks, while at the same time reducing the tech support time I provide to them, so what point are you trying to make?

      While I can't do without Windows (due to my career), I found no reason I should inflict it upon those I care about.

  68. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Skipped the good one (9) and went straight to the one that sucks

    everyone knows odd versions are good, even ones bad...

  69. Shrimpling

    It worked for Red Dwarf

    They didn't make a series 9 and the result was series 10 was better than series 8.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It worked for Red Dwarf

      They're not the only ones in the entertainment industry to skip a number.

      The Traveling Wilburys did it: Volume 1 was followed by Volume 3.

    2. Vic

      Re: It worked for Red Dwarf

      They didn't make a series 9 and the result was series 10 was better than series 8.

      They didn't make any series between 6 and 10. Nope, not a one.

      Vic.

  70. ColonelClaw

    Dear interface designers, please read this web page as many times as it takes for you to understand why my eyes are bleeding:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_theory

  71. Bob 5

    Stick or bust?

    Just built a new desktop using W7. I think I'll stick with it until 2020 as W10 looks on the face of it like a half-assed attempt to merge W7 and W8 in a panic response to a predictable user revolt. Why this obsession to do everything with one OS anyway? You just end up with an OS that does lots of things poorly but nothing well, full of lots of obstructions, annoyances and background bloat that I for one don't want. Still, as long as you can consign all those damn tiles to the recycle bin it may have possibilities I suppose.....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Stick or bust?

      "Why this obsession to do everything with one OS anyway?"

      I know!

      Most shit is done in the browser now, anyway (for consumers, at least).

    2. tempemeaty

      Re: Stick or bust?

      "Why this obsession to do everything with one OS anyway? You just end up with an OS that does lots of things poorly but nothing well, full of lots of obstructions, annoyances and background bloat that I for one don't want."

      I have to agree with this. Although I get Microsoft's reasoning, It seems to me MS can be setting itself up for trouble here. You know the saying, "Jack of All Trades, Master of None".

  72. PiltdownMan

    Is it just me?

    Or are Microsoft trying to keep up with Apple? Windows 10, OSX is version 10.x? MS should have gone straight to 11, so that they could boast of being ONE better than Apple!

    Just Sayin'

  73. chris_stjohn
    Meh

    Why?

    The question that Microsoft have failed to answer pretty much ever since Windows XP is: Why should an enterprise upgrade?

    So Windows XP died and enterprises reluctantly rolled out Windows 7 which is, I believe, a worthy successor but still cost enterprises tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds. So - why would they want to do that again for Windows 10 were it not for planned obsolescence?

    And is Redmond's strategy really just to keep pumping out that same kernel with a few tweaks to the UI?

  74. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I quite like Win95

    What was wrong with the Win95 interface ?

    Sensible start menu, file manager and apps that all had a similar menu along the top, they even had a popup command line interface.

    They could have spent the last 20 years fixing the BSOD and optimising the kernel, by now it would be light quick and portable.

  75. 080

    I've seen that somewhere before

    Any truth in the rumour that the codename for W10 is Winbuntu?

  76. Lamont Cranston

    If there's any justice in the world,

    they'd roll this out as a free upgrade to anyone who got Windows 8 bundled with their PC, and have a handy checkbox to switch off all the Metro crap.

    And who is it that's going through this forum and downvoting every single post?

  77. FutureShock999

    Again...no Object Store? No metadata management for data objects stored under the file system? Are we still using...gasp....raw files?

    What is it about current OS releases that really seem to just be ever more incremental updates on UIs, with few real changes in core functionality and usage? When do we get a proper 21st century desktop operating system that actually embodies computer science concepts that have been talked about for years to make OSes more modern, but have not been delivered?

    This is particularly galling on the data storage side - with HBase, HDFS, and even MongoDB showing off alternative methods to store files, data, and objects, why is such functionality not native to the OS, and exposed directly to all apps via standard APIs? Instead...we get yet more 1960s file technology. We should be far angrier at that than whether or not there are tiles on the desktop...

  78. Velv Silver badge
    Coat

    Why is it that every screenshot of Metro includes a Dispicable Minion?

  79. Rollie3pointOh

    FTA: "Probably the key reason why enterprises shunned Windows 8 is that the interface is too different"

    Different or just crap, inefficient, fragmented, schizophrenic etc? And it wasn't just enterprizes who shunned it.

  80. Mr. Byte

    Maybe they're gonna pull an Apple...

    Microsoft can't be dummer than Apple. It only took Apple 9 tries to realize that a *nix based system was the way to go and hence OS X.

    I mean, they're already steali...I mean copyin...err...Innovating all the features of a *nix DE anyhow...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Maybe they're gonna pull an Apple...

      I mean, they're already steali...I mean copyin...err...Innovating all the features of a *nix DE anyhow...

      If only... !

  81. DerekCurrie
    Angel

    Microsoft's Brain Fell Out

    7 8 9?

    What did 0 say to 8?

    Nice belt!

    1. wdmot

      Re: Microsoft's Brain Fell Out

      What did 0 say to 8?

      Nice belt!

      Implying 10 is 8 with more bloat? (The belt comes off and becomes the '1' and the 8 becomes a fat '0'. Wish I could make an animation of that!)

  82. Stu 18

    So they purchased some star dock software and call it win10

    What have they been doing for 2 years?

    Sorry, my bad, of course, puberty

  83. Stuart Halliday
    Alert

    I'm still going to call it Windows 8.2...

    1. euclid

      >call it Windows 8.2...

      or Windows 8+2

  84. cortland

    I thought it was

    DOS 5's Love Child.

  85. Truthteller

    Laugh Now, if you want

    I'm on Win 10 as I write with an underpowered Win8 Tablet I have moved on from (for a Surface - which blows away the toy iPad). Microsoft finally has it right. It's already remarkably stable for a first release of a preview. The OS is the best of Windows that you knew through 7 while keeping the best parts of 8. You want a tablet with actual computing power (not to mention a pen - you can WRITE notes) you got it. You want your familiar desktop, you got it. Use the keyboard, toss it away and the pen is still something Steve Jobs never got. So laugh now, while you can. The final trick is for MS can get the Core processor into the weight and form factor of the iPad and long imagined Dyno-Book is here. You might want to try this thing before you dog it - and PS I'm no MS fan but every few releases they get it right and this looks like it will be thee most right.

  86. Darren Forster

    Do you reckon those scammed with W8 will get a free upgrade to fix the problems?

    Windows 10 looks nice, but will those of us that were scammed by Microsoft into buying Windows 8 might be offered either a free or cheaper upgrade option.

    That multiple desktops idea looks great too although why do I seem to recall that same feature being used in Puppy many years go.

    The number skip from 8 to 10 has been done many times before in computing - Motorola went from the 68040 CPU's to the 68060's when they found the same floating point fault in the 68050's that Intel had in their pentiums (only difference was Intel tried to cover it up, where as Motorola fixed it).

  87. William Hinshaw
    FAIL

    M$ just can't let go of Metro can it.

    Boy MS just can't let go of the fact that people see tiles as a complete waste of space. That and the enterprise doesn't want live tiles nor does it want the "Store" option anywhere near employee's in any way shape or form. On a desktop tiles just get in the way. On a tablet yeah sure maybe tiles are ok and on a phone sure but not on a desktop.

    Windows 7 and it's start menu still looks better than Windows 10.

    Also has anyone noticed that 802.1x authentication doesn't seem to work right in Windows 10? I'm just not getting it to work correctly with user authentication.

  88. illiad

    No, actually... :P

    there are quite a few 'windows 9' articles about... so MS just said 'Nyah!! its windows 10!! :P :P '

    so you can easily tell who was premature!!!! :D :D

  89. Dave 125

    Popups.

    "When the screen is detached to become a tablet, a prompt pops up asking the user if they want to switch to tablet mode."

    Brilliant. And I suppose if I were to click on the Yes button, would a prompt pop up to ask me if I want to click the Yes button? And if I move the mouse to click that second Yes button, will another prompt pop up to ask me if I want to use the mouse?

    I really hope so cos I can't get used to these computer thangs without all these popups asking me to do what I already appear to be doing. I'm already quite confused about how there isn't a popup asking me if I want to post this comment. Alt-Y.

  90. shovelDriver

    Windows 10 is Old News

    Windows 10? I've been using it for quite some time. Windows 8 with freeware Classic Start Menu and some minor tweaking of Microsoft's atrocious program menu groups, and Voila! All the functionality of Windows 10 with all the tried & true performance of Windows 7, plus the speed & reliability increases of Windows 8.

    Without, I might add, all the irritating, unneeded, performance-dwindling "Flair" created for the mindless.

    That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. At least until Microsoft, Apple, Linux, etc., can make their computers as reliable and simple to use as mine is.

    Now, excuse me while I cross over to my other monitors and manipulate the 14 programs I've got running.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 10 is Old News

      14? Is that all?

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