back to article Le whoops! Microsoft France boss blows lid off 'Windows 9' event

When Microsoft sent out invitations to a secret press event for September 30 in San Francisco, rumors spread that it would mark the next major release of Windows. Now the president of Microsoft France has blown apart Microsoft's attempt at Applesque PR – by letting slip that "Windows 9" is indeed coming. "Last year we had …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If it is anything like the last incarnation, I can happily wait thill hell freezes over before I upgrade.

    1. Peter2 Silver badge

      Let's be honest though, all they need to do is slightly retheme the win7 interface and then stick it on win8, call it Win9 and that's job done. Hardly anybody would notice given how many people have actually used Win8 for any appreciable time.

      I'm waiting for the normal interface to reappear on the desktop before anything replaces Win7, and also waiting for server 2012 to get a normal interface before my 2003R2 terminal server gets decommissioned.

      I'm hardly likely to be the only one in the same position. The question is, can Microsoft manage to listen to their customers for once? If Microsoft can't provide a workable upgrade path pretty soon then they are going to look awfully silly when somebody else does.

      1. Khaptain Silver badge

        I am not convinced that Microsoft will be able to being themselves out of the shitstorm that they are currently in quite that easilly.

        W8 has been a commercial catastrophy, W8.1 hasn't really changed anything and yet there is nothing really fundamentally wrong with it. OK the majority hated TIFKAM, Metro is just pants, the stupid bloody sidebar thing drives you crazy on anything but a tablet, but the system in itself actually works.

        From what we have seen last week W9 will have no real changes, I feel it will continue to be hated. The flat interface, the half arsed attempt at bringing back the start menu, those bloody apps will remain etc...

        This whole new paradigm has resulted in a very disturbed OS. It's trying to answer a problem that doesn't exist and is failing hopelessly to make any headway.

        Microsoft are struggling and it's beginning to show.

        (MS : Ils ont les pieds dans la merde et l'odeur commence d'être très désagréable.)

        1. dan1980

          @Khaptain

          'Metro' is not 'pants'. It is a well thought-out, interesting and unique interface.

          The problem is that it is a well thought-out, interesting and unique interface designed for tablets and phones and thus has no f$#king place on my mouse/keyboard-controlled computer, much less my f$@king servers!!!

          Most people agree that the back-end improvements are good. Having deployed several 2012 R2 servers I can say that there are LOADS of improvements that make a real difference. But that f$#king interface makes it a real chore to manage.

          As a desktop operating environment it is less annoying than on a server but the point is that, for servers and desktops, there has been no gain from the new look and rather a lot of pain. At the very least, it has annoyed a whole load of people.

          Don't get me started on the new Server Manager tool . . .

          1. Avatar of They Silver badge
            Happy

            Exactly

            Pretty much summed up my comment I was about to make. Have an upvote.

            ....But will MS have learned ANYTHING this time round????

            Probably not.

        2. Hans 1 Silver badge
          Headmaster

          "Ils ont les pieds dans la merde et l'odeur commence a être très désagréable."

        3. BobChip

          Microsoft are struggling and it's beginning to show.

          Thanks Khaptain. This is precisely Microsoft's problem, and it is hard to see what they can do about it any time soon. Even if Win 9 turns out to be brilliant (which seems unlikely), they still have to persuade dissafected customers to use it or, even more challenging, come back to MS from Apple or Linux. Who in their right mind would move from a good product which works to one which is clearly in trouble?

          I suspect the challenge is too severe, and that MS will never recover to a position of dominance. And by implication, this must leave their long term future in doubt.

        4. Peter2 Silver badge

          >"I am not convinced that Microsoft will be able to being themselves out of the shitstorm that they are currently in quite that easilly."

          All Microsoft has to say: Due to public feedback on the new interface introduced by some guy we have now sacked due to pissing off virtually every customer we have we have re introduced the "classic" interface for legacy devices without touchscreens. This is not the default UI, however it can be selected from the themes menu or you can force the use of this interface via group policy.

          /TIFKAM issues that are dissuading deployments.

          It is quite literally that simple.

      2. nanchatte

        All they need to do is get rid of those rediculous lucky charms and slidy shit for regular PCs and replace the detault apps on the start screen with their proper desktop equivalents that stay windowed until you slide them to one side to create a new, adjustable panel where the app becomes its minimalist doppelganger... W8 was not bad, just schizo.

        I personally enjoy the panelling, although it could obviously be improved, it is quite nice to be able to dock an app to the side of the screeen (email, say) while still having a clean desktop and windows that don't maximise over the top of it.

        Oh... and add a little 7 depth back to the deathly drab interface and they're basically done.

        Otherwise, I'm actually impressed with 8's ability to run on an old 2GB RAM Pentium of mine.

        1. MyffyW Silver badge

          @nanchatte actually impressed with 8's ability to run on an old 2GB RAM Pentium of mine.

          You have me intrigued - might this be a reprieve for my Athlon XP tripped out with 3GB of RAM but woefully incapable of running Win 7 or Debian Wheezy? Or should I give it a traditional Viking funeral?

          1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

            @ MyffyW

            Athlon XP runs Wheezy just fine as long as you do not try to enable PAE and its dear friedn the 3_LEVEL_PAGETABLES. You need to either rebuild the kernel or use the "486" image even if this means that you will sacrifice some RAM in the process. Rebuilding is better as you can come up with a set of options which allow you to use that amount of RAM without sacrificing 99% of the performance.

            Otherwise the GP is right - Windows 8 for the first time in 2 decades requires less resources, not more. This is one of the reasons why the channel hated it as it did not actually force an upgrade cycle.

          2. Fuzz

            Nope,

            Unfortunately it's almost impossible to run Windows 8 without a 64bit processor. You need SSE2 and the NX bit and I think there were only 2 or 3 processors released that had those features but didn't have 64bit support.

      3. Greogr

        Good luck with the wait... hope they deliver in less than a year when your terminal server will reach EOL

        1. dan1980

          @Greogr

          Indeed. 2008 R2 is stable and an improvement over 2003. Not to mention that 2003 cannot run the newer IE versions, which are an improvement in both speed and security over IE 8 (highest version that will run on 2003). Of course you can use FF/Chrome, but just saying . . .

          That said, 2012 R2 is a big improvement purely from a performance perspective. The problem is trying to wrangle it into a well-behaved TS environment.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      From what I have seen so far

      I going to pass. It looks like some minor rejigging of the crap they are currently trying to fob us off with.

      MetroUI is still live and well, and Windows 8 Service Pack 2 has just be renamed Windows 9 to try and create some interest in their failed experiments.

    3. phuzz Silver badge
      Gimp

      The main difference between 7 and 8(.1) is the start menu, which I find myself using, maybe a couple of times a day? and I use it in the same way as 7, press windows key start typing, press enter to select a program. Both versions work basically the same for that workflow, they just look different.

      Admittedly I've only used 8.1, not 8.0, but I have trouble seeing what all the fuss is about now.

      The one thing that does annoy me, is that they practically insist that you use a windows Live account to login, which if you're sensible and have a complex password on your online account, leaves you typing in 20 chars of gibberish every time you want to logon your computer. It can be replaced by a PIN though.

      (PS, if you want to dock a window to one side of the screen, just select a window, and press Windows key+direction arrow [L/R for dock to side of screen, up for maximise, down for minimise]. This works on Win 7 and up)

      1. Uwe Dippel

        Thanks for the info!

        I mean, your advise on docking. I read it three times, thinking very hard, trying to imagine how that looks like and what you do.

        Then, I shook my head and decided that not being a Windows user was a very good decision, and that there is no need at all to change my position as long as this is needed to dock a window. Though maybe there are more convincing ways to do that, I don't feel encouraged to explore those. Thank you very much.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Time flies

    I've not actually seen a copy of Windows 8 yet.

    1. Ken Darling

      Re: Time flies

      You don't know what you're missing... Some car crashes just have to be seen to be believed.

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: Time flies

        You don't know what you're missing... Some car crashes just have to be seen to be believed.

        Maybe so, but I'd rather not be in the car when it does crash. I guess I'm one of the olde skool who say they'll have to pry my Win 7 out of my cold dead hands as so far, the further I am away from Win8, the better. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what Win9 brings... either terror or ooo... shiney..nice.

    2. NP-Hardass

      Re: Time flies

      Minus TIFKAM and the start button debacle (remedied with the program Start8), I've found Win8 to be quite pleasant to use (on the rare occasions that I use Windows)

      1. Khaptain Silver badge

        Re: Time flies

        Without TIFKAM, Win8 should have been called "Win7 SP2".

    3. nanchatte

      Re: Time flies

      too bad, 8.0 really is something to behold in all its AWEFUL majesty.

    4. Eddy Ito Silver badge

      Re: Time flies

      Actually it's interesting since only XP was exceptionally long lived. Ignoring the really early versions since MS went through about seven releases (1.0 in 1985 through 3.11 WFW in 1993) in nine years including NT 3.1. After that it was NT 3.5 in '94, NT 3.51 and Win 95 in '95, NT 4 in '96, Win 98 in '98, 98 SE in '99, 2000 & Muddled Escape in Y2K and XP in '01. XP being the first consumer/enterprise blend and about where they split off the server side releases.

      Post XP, the server side saw released versions in '03, '08, '09 (2008 R2), '12 and '13 (2012 R2) plus Home Server in '07 and '11. The desktop versions were Vista in '06, 7 in '09 and 8 in '12. Of course we saw the consumer preview of 8 in September of 2011 so it's really only XP and Server 2003 that were "new" for five years where most others last three years or less.

      Following the three year rule we should be seeing a consumer preview of Win 9 right about now and a general release about mid 2015. It's quite possible they want to get 9 out the door to try to recover this years Xmas season which would make it early but not terribly so and it's probably a much better idea than waiting until after the holidays this year hoping to make it up in the next 'back to school' push.

    5. big_D Silver badge

      Re: Time flies

      Different strokes, I guess.

      I find it great. I like the new flat style and the start screen doesn't bother me - I use it about as often as the start menu; a couple of time a week. Most of my apps are pinned to the desktop.

      In tablet mode it works very well, I much prefer it to iOS and Android tablets - the big advantage is, I can put my tablet in a desktop dock and it runs multiple external displays with full Windows desktop, no having to worry about syncing data, everything is just there.

      The additions in multi-monitor support are worth the upgrade alone, if you use multiple monitors.

      There are lots of subtle changes to Windows 8 that really make it a better experience.

      And automatic background data throttling on a metered (E.g. 3G / LTE) connection is a boon.

      1. sabroni Silver badge

        Re: Yeah right....

        Like we're going to listen to someone who uses Windows 8!!! I'm much more interested in the opinions of those who won't go anywhere near it, they give a much clearer impression of how shit it is.

        1. Stuart 22

          Re: Yeah right....

          "Like we're going to listen to someone who uses Windows 8!!! I'm much more interested in the opinions of those who won't go anywhere near it, they give a much clearer impression of how shit it is."

          You have hit the nail on the head. I haven't used any MS OS since a very short episode with Vista.

          That's the point - I was on the edge of my seat (sometimes in front of Bill Gates) excitedly for every new MS OS. I bought into it with all the fervour now donated to Apple fanbois. But no longer, I don't care, I've moved on.- Win9 may be brilliant, it may be pants - it most probably won't make any difference to my purchase plans. I'm not listening, I now have other fish to fry.

          That's MS's mistake - it is a darn sight easier to lose your base then get them back.

          Personally I think MS missed a trick in trying to keep a unified UI across devices. The story of Linux is that that's now herding cats. The abuse over TIFKAM is mild compared to what's been thrown at Canonical over Unity. Except if you don't like that then there is KDE, Gnome , XFCE, LXDE ...

          A smarter MS would have slipped in TIFKAM as the default consumer UI and kept 'classic' just a click away. OS vendors don't seem to learn that it is now a mature market and the new is not a guarenteed winner.

          Users hate change. Businesses can't afford it.

  3. Tom 35 Silver badge

    windows 9?

    I was expecting something like... Windows 8.1 update 1 With bells on

    Now with the new modern.2 UI with start v2

  4. BillsBacker

    Leave it to Micro $ oft

    To invent a version of math where 7> 8. Methinks they deserve a Nobel for that enlightenment.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Leave it to Micro $ oft

      7>8?...I will answer that with Microsoft Windows operator logic.

      if (5>6<7>8==9); eatMemory();

      // API docs reference eat_Memory(), not eatMemory()...have a beer.

  5. Nashimoto
    Devil

    Windows Nein

    1. JJKing

      Oh man, imagine if it was called Windows Ya then (just to be completely silly :-)))) )

      1. Hans 1 Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Windows Ja, nicht Ya ! Wo hast du denn das her ?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Seeing someone else repeating that makes me smile. The name really has stuck, not sure whether others had a similar idea before I posted it here (and on alt.humor.puns).

      I think Microsoft will have difficulty shaking it off if they do decide to brand it as "Windows 9".

      1. nanchatte

        Hang on there sailor...

        Isn't alt.humor.puns an OS X plist file?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Hang on there sailor...

          Isn't alt.humor.puns an OS X plist file?

          You wish

    3. king of foo

      oh no

      You absolute ***** lol - now I'm going to have Stephen Fry's camp German accent in my head whenever I think or see windows 9.

      Maybe I can force it into Rammstein instead.

  6. GitMeMyShootinIrons

    Stop! Take a breath...

    It would appear that the negative ranters have already started.

    Perhaps a pause for thought is in order. MS definitely have a subconscious alternating between releases. 98 was good (particularly SE), 2000 was meh. XP was good, Vista was an abomination. 7 was good, 8 - well beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Maybe 9 will be just fine. Take 8's underpinnings and fix the GUI and who knows...

    1. Bladeforce

      Re: Stop! Take a breath...

      Get it right windows 2000 was actually good it was windows me that should have. Had the extra h for windows meh

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Stop! Take a breath...

        Indeed… Windows 2000 was decent for its time. Modern enough to support features like true plug-and-play, USB, etc… but still reasonably solid, and fast on modest hardware compared with other Windows releases.

        I used to run the release candidate quite happily on a Pentium 133MHz with 64MB RAM, and it used to run that smoother than it ran Windows 95.

        Windows XP just felt bloated by comparison, even on hardware supposedly "designed" for it. My old laptop I used at uni, a P4 1.7GHz with 2GB RAM, ran much better on Windows 2000 than it ever did under its native Windows XP. (And it ran Linux better again.)

      2. Phil W

        Re: Stop! Take a breath...

        Indeed, Windows 2000 was essentially 50% of the development from NT4 to XP, all the nice stable backend improvements and stuff with a rather spartan GUI on top.

        Windows ME was the other 50%, i.e. all the bells and whistles and fanciness without the backend and reliability to support it.

        1. GitMeMyShootinIrons

          Re: Stop! Take a breath...

          2000 was very much 50℅. It always seemed like a product rushed out the door, with XP being the intended finished product.

          I had one of the early betas when it was still labeled NT5. Basically NT4 with plug'n'pray plus a few bells and whistles.

          That's largely why I describe 2000 as 'meh' - it wasn't bad, but it wasn't finished either.

          I ignored Windows ME because I'm in obviously in denial - I'd forgotten possibly the worst Windows release of all. I hang my head in shame.

          1. Mage Silver badge

            Re: Stop! Take a breath...

            XP may be a bit more bloated, but Win2K was indeed the unfinished version of it.

            ME was the most broken version of Win3.x, it, Win95 and Win98 was basically all the 32 bit addons for the 1993 version of WFWG.311 and the new explorer shell. Nothing to do with NT3.1 to XP development.

            The Win9x family should only have been on a dedicated gaming console.

          2. Philippe

            Re: Stop! Take a breath...

            Windows Me should be kept in computer museum as the worst operating system ever released.

            This thing was dreadful.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Stop! Take a breath...

      " Stop! Take a breath...

      It would appear that the negative ranters have already started"

      Probably because they speak from experience - like me. Windows Hate sucks like a backstreet masseuse.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Stop! Take a breath...

      Sorry, you would have to be a bit of a pleb to believe this alternative version nonsense. For starters there are versions missed out to make it work...

      Until Microsoft unwind back to Windows7 and start again, no amount of rehashing is going to fix the mess that is Windows.

      1. P. Lee Silver badge

        Re: Stop! Take a breath...

        But that is all they need to do: Win8 defaulting to a win7 theme with TIFKAM as an option. TIFKAM appears to be a bolt-on anyway, so it wouldn't be that difficult.

        It won't help sales that much though. The main reason for corporates not upgrading is not the desktop-inappropriate UI, its the fact that Win7 upgrades are still going on or have only recently been completed. Sadly for MS, an OS or UI does not provide competitive advantage any more. MS might need Win8 but users do not.

    4. beep54
      Devil

      Re: Stop! Take a breath...

      As far as I'm concerned, 7 was Vista-next-update-with-a-price-tag. Because Vista was starting to work. And 7 is simply Vista +. M$ just sort of realized that with damage done, the only way to recoup losses was.....rebranding! Yeah! That's the ticket. Worked, too. 9 will be the next version of 8 with a new price tag. Nice. But. What I wanna know is...when in the HELL will MS fix the gd fundamentals of Windows that have never worked well such as Windows Explorer? How the HELL can you explain an operating system with an effing file manager that is so inept that it is not merely inconsistent in application, but crashes. Repeatedly (at least starting with Vista). And while I'm ranting, what the hell is up with that little message when you are downloading something to somewhere that sez something about 'your search'? Dear gawd, it ain't a search, it's a freaking DOWNLOAD! There is SO MUCH stuff that MS needs to fix, but, oh, no! Shiney-shiney is the key!!!!

      I'd best quit now

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    just imagine if windows 10 was unity bolted on top.

    1. kain preacher Silver badge

      Some one hates unity .

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Flame

        yes, I do.

        And I'm sure, absolutely sure, that I'm not alone.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      How to make a bad system even worse...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      A way to create certain disunity surely…

  8. Sebastian A

    There's little wrong with the bones of Windows 8.

    The UI is a disaster though.

    They could have simply fired the UI team, taken the internals of Win8, and reskin it to get something much more palatable.

    The mere fact that "it's not Windows 8" will move a ton of copies, since the whole "every second version is crap" pattern is widely believed.

    1. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

      Re: There's little wrong with the bones of Windows 8.

      Wot he said ^^^

    2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      Re: There's little wrong with the bones of Windows 8.

      The mere fact that "it's not Windows 8" will move a ton of copies, since the whole "every second version is crap" pattern is widely believed.

      But has anyone outside of late-night geek talking circles ever heard of it?

  9. Oninoshiko

    So..

    ElReg has both soft and small & the firm fruit giving them the silent treatment then...

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    OS/2 now there was a worthy OS with tons of modern features (such as virtualization, and virtual OS boot images) decades before things like that became mainstream.

    Too bad Microsoft Killed it by blackmailing IBM to drop it.

    1. PhilipN Silver badge

      Corrrection

      "...IS a worthy OS..." The only issue today is the need to run it inside a VM (which works quite nicely). Try it.

      The absolute peak of efficiency was using WordPerfect for DOS under OS/2, sending faxes by Faxworks and ..... oh...... everybody's gone...

      1. P. Lee Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Corrrection

        Well, you could probably run a medium-sized enterprise (as in, every desktop) on a single host.

        How much is that Windows GUI costing you?

        1. PhilipN Silver badge

          Re: Corrrection

          Windows GUI cost? Nothing.

          I switched from OS/2 to OS/X but keep a couple of machines running XP just for piddling around.

          The VM runs under OS/X. Parallels, Virtual Box or VM Fusion - take your pick. OS/2 sound even works, which I must admit came as a shock, OS/2 system sounds emanating from an Apple Cinema Display.

    2. Mage Silver badge

      OS/2 and MS

      MS didn't kill it by blackmail, except indirectly with OEM deals, consumer success of Win95 and rising penetration of NT 3.5x

      IBM killed it. Bad driver support for consumers. Bad internal politics, pricineg and marketing

    3. mmeier

      IBM killed it? Strange, they developed 2.x, 3.x and 4.x versions of it. Nice OS and quite a few good development tools. But it had the same big problem as some other OS - not enough end user software and a lousy marketing.

      And that started the loop again. Not enough software for the end user => not enough sales of the OS => Not enough reasons to write/port end user software => Not enough software for the end user=>....

      The same with other companies like Commodore (Hey, how about selling that UNIX Amiga), Atari (Hey, how about getting the TT IN THE STORES and Selling us that brilliant Unix TT/X or the ATW), Acorn... Those companies had brilliant engineers and a marketing that would have failed at selling a cure against old age, death and taxes

      MS had good engineers and a brilliant marketing. They won.

  11. C. P. Cosgrove

    Reading these comments has reminded me that I have never used Win 8 or 8.1 on a touchscreen. I teach computing as a volunteer to mainly elderly learners using as far as possible their own equipment. This has been something of a learning experience for me as until I started with this group just over a year ago i had never used a tablet of any sort apart from my Mk 1b Kindle which is purely a book reader. Now I have a working familiarity with iPads, Samsungs and various other flavours of Android - but not one single Windows tablet. None of the students I teach have one.

    I have used both 8 and 8.1 on laptops and desktops, none with touch screens, and it has to be said that 8.1 is much more user friendly in this situation. There are things about it that annoy me, but I agree with remarks above that it is at heart a decent operating system.

    I think it must be remembered that Win 8 was an attempt by MS to unify three quite different operating systems. This at least was the design objective laid before their programmers as I understand it. Unfortunately they have yet to achieve full success. Whether or not it is possible to do this I don't know but I do know they haven't got there yet. It will be interesting to see Win 9 in the round.

    But from MS's perspective, the problem is that my present Win 7 machine is working perfectly well and has all the grunt I need to do the tasks I do - so why should I change ?

    Chris Cosgrove

    1. Paul Shirley

      I think it would be more accurate to say they were trying to unify the look&feel of the 3 OS products in the Ballmer era, letting the poor app developers paper over the total lack of API convergence and the users suffer utterly inappropriate interfaces.

      Of late they're trying to look more serious about actual convergence but it's too late, Win8/WP showed users the 'one UI everywhere' idea is just stupid, a plan born of MS marketing needs rather than sense. Even using the same core OS everywhere is questionable, I like my mobile devices tuned very differently to my desktop.

      Win9 is coming too soon to show real progress on backing out the idiotic choices, if only because MS didn't take the problem seriously till more than a year after Win8 launched.

      1. Tom 35 Silver badge

        they were trying to unify the look&feel of the 3 OS products

        And fix the problem of all the confusing, complex error messages by making them all say "something happened".

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I have to agree with this assessment, as many people have stated, under the UI Windows 8 is a great operating system, rivalling if not beating windows 7.

      As a user who grew up through all the versions since 3.1 including (95, 98, ME (oh god the nightmares), 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1) I have to say that I cannot and refuse to use 8 as without the start bar there is such a loss of efficiency that it actually annoys me. however As someone who is often teaching people how to use a computer for the first time they seem to just understand and pickup windows 8 really quickly, it's quite intuitive if you forget everything you know. Unfortunately, I cannot do that, and until Microsoft returns the start bar and increases efficiency for workers I don't see anyone besides super early adopters even considering an upgrade. I certainly won't be making the recommendation to my company.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        And you're also unable to google "windows 8 start menu" or "disable metro" and follow the simple instructions?

        Then perhaps the recommendation to your company should be to hire someone else?

        (I'm not a Windows user)

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          @AC

          >And you're also unable to google "windows 8 start menu" or "disable metro" and follow the simple instructions?

          That was the catch-22 with Win8 - in order to be able to look up stuff on how to use Win8, a new user had to already know how to drive Win8 to a level that previous versions didn't demand (HP for example made a getting started guide available in the MS store, only you needed Win8 etc. to access it, thereby rendering pointless the first dozen or so pages of the guide). Okay once people found their way around they then got on with things however, that first impression has stuck and has been reinforced with the seemingly random stuff that keeps happening.

    3. mmeier

      If your W7 maschine works - no good reason to switch to W8 now. If OTOH you can make good use of W8 features/changes - no good reason NOT to switch to W8 now. For me the changes in the WLAN / boot sequence made a big enough difference to switch the desktop as well as the tablet pc. The Modern UI is "good enough for developer work" for me so no big deal since the "special features" of the start menu either are not used, not useful or present in the programs I use so I do not miss them. And I do not use touch at all, not even on the smartphone.

      W8 changes a lot and needs fine tuning as did elder versions (Compare NT3.5.1 with Win7). Some already happended (Win 8.1) and some more will happen. There are requests from corporate customers (Admins mostly, less so end users once you whack Muscle Memory Mike a few times to re-train him). This can be a PITA for Joe Average that gets the choice of W8/W8/W8 in the big electronic markets and must relearn stuff. It is mostly of no interest to corporations that have downgrade rights / company licence for W7 and use a "corp client" anyway instead of the seller supplied OS (IF they buy a unit with an installed OS at all - most bigger don't)

      And MS is aware of all that. They know (and speak with) their corporate customers and update cycles (3-5 years). And W8 hit the "sweet spot" IMHO timing-wise. W7 was mature but has quite a few years of support left and therefor was choosen by most corporations as an XP replacement so they are done for the next cycle. And now MS slowly improves W8, gets feedback from privat customers and limited roll ins of W8 (for tablet pc mostly) and when 2016 comes along and the next cycle ramps up - they have the Wx version ready that corporations will use for that next cycle.

    4. Wade Burchette

      My complaints about Windows 8 are the lack of Aero and how closely it is tied to Bing and the Microsoft cloud. It seems like to me Win8 and Office 365 was just an attempt to make money off customer the rest of their life. The first thing I do with Win8 is to make sure I log in with a local account, turn off everything related to OneDrive and Bing, and turn off all location services. Then I remove the store icon that gets pushed out on the taskbar and Metro start menu just to make sure I am not tempted to buy my programs through the Microsoft store. The absolute last thing we need is a walled-garden Windows, and for Microsoft to get a cut of every program we buy.

      1. mmeier

        I have the store icon on my desktop since the day W8 was released and - I never bought a thing there. Guess I still have that think called "self control". And while Office/2013 is on the boxes, no 365 anywhere here. What's the problem again? Except fanatism on your part?

  12. channel extended

    I'll wait for the service pack.

    When service pack 5 comes out will it be known as "Windows 9-5"?

  13. dan1980

    The truly frustrating thing is that every new version of Windows has had some really good improvements - even those much-hated alternate releases.

    The problem is that Microsoft make such huge changes to the interface and general usability.

    The real, underlying problem, however, appears to be massive arrogance from Microsoft. They have this view that if someone doesn't like their new project then it is the consumer's fault, not theirs. You see it both from MS themselves and their apologists. It's always the users being afraid of change or not giving things a go.

    It's much better and faster and easier once you get used to it - honest . . .

    Needless to say, this kind of attitude does not improve the situation and isn't conducive to Microsoft listening to their customers and taking their criticisms on-board.

    In some ways it's a bit like those woefully bad contestants you see of 'talent' shows, such as the dancing and singing ones. Usually there'll be a piece with their mother saying how great her son is and after the inevitable disappointment, a piece with the mother saying how the judges just don't know what they're talking about.

    1. P. Lee Silver badge

      >The real, underlying problem, however, appears to be massive arrogance from Microsoft.

      Probably not even that.

      The problem is that MS needs a new product to sell and they don't have new features that people want. Even if W8 is better, it isn't better enough that people will pay for it until they have to. It was bad enough going from 32-bit xp to 64-bit W7. It's going to be a nightmare for them from now on, hence, cloud rental models. Neither I nor my company need a touch screen UI to click on, "My Enterprise DB App", and Excel.

      Apple get around this by making the OS free, which means it doesn't have to be good value for money, but they also do add new cool features, such as an easy to use backup system. Apple also sell to individuals, which means they don't have to keep commercial partners happy and change for the user is cheap.

      1. dan1980

        @P.Lee

        I can see your point, but at the same time, with the exception of some upgrading to Win 7/2008/2008 R2 x64 in order to utilize more RAM (a very valid concern for servers!), I don't know of anyone who upgrades their Windows OS other than when they buy a new computer.

        The issue there is that many are now actively avoiding buying a new computer because they don't want Windows 8.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @P.Lee

        "but they also do add new cool features, such as an easy to use backup system"

        Whereas MS take away backup features or hide under some Win7 file recovery "(we'd rather you didn't find it) link.

        If I type "Backup" There is file history but the icon looks Metro so I just can find the energy to wait for it to launch or the doubtless bullshit thereafter.

        I suppose it is meant to force people to use Sky drive or something but the contrast is there.

        Apple "we'll include this people might like it"

        MS "we'll hide this people like it"

    2. mmeier

      Actually MS listens. More to corporate customers than to end users but the do. And they implement changes. Slowly and step by step in 8.x currently (Direkt to Desktop is an example, rearanged shutdown element on Modern UI another). They do not follow the "We want the W7 candy look" back screaming of some people and that gets those screamers frustrated. But changes do happen and W8 is very much a "we experiment with this" version of the UI IMHO.

  14. Michael Thibault

    Un-hunh

    @ElReg

    >It works for Apple because there's a rabid fan base out there that wants the earliest access to the sexy products.

    It works for Apple because there's a very large pack of journalists out there, and each one of them needs to collect a paycheck in order to eat.

    FTFY

    1. dan1980

      Re: Un-hunh

      @Michael Thibault

      It works for Apple because the upgrades are cheap and don't substantially change the GUI.

      Consider the difference in UI between OS X 10.0 and OS X 10.8 - it's mostly just a refinement and over all looks the same. There is very little to learn when upgrading between versions. Compare that to the difference seen in XP > Vista and then Vista/7 > 8. HUGE differences.

      To be fair, OS X 10.6 is my favourite as OS X 10.7 marked the beginning of what seems like a push to make the desktop OS more like iOS, with stupidities such as reverse scrolling, lack of scroll arrows, auto-save feature and several other, miscellaneous effects and preferences.

  15. tempemeaty

    "X" marks the spot?

    Perhaps Microsoft will stay the course calling this next version 8.3 in an attempt to save face on it's failings? Then again they may be preparing to rebrand their OS to reflect their "one OS for all products" concept while continuing to copy the Apple game plan. The "X" is so identifiable with Apple's OS, so why not "Windows X".

    I have other ideas how the XBox One name can come into play as well but enough said.

  16. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Coat

    The Council has Spoken!

    "On September 30, we will be providing an update on what’s next for Windows and the enterprise."

    Death?

  17. Anonymous Bullard
    Linux

    I'm glad I jumped off the treadmill, 2 years ago.

    I got fed up with dreading the next enforced upgrade, so I did something about it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's an awful state to be in - instead of excitement, looking forward to improvments, etc. it's "What will they break this time?", "I'm happy with my outdated version", "I hope that crap is optional"...

      The thing is... we all have to upgrade sooner or later.

      1. BobChip
        Linux

        Upgrade?

        Have to upgrade? No we do not. Migrate instead. OSX or Mint 17 - take your pick.

        1. mmeier

          Re: Upgrade?

          Okay, Linux or Mac-OS equivalents to (Mix of commercial and privat software but I prefer "One OS" so what the companie uses my privat box uses if possible and vice versa)

          Sharepoint

          Outlook/Exchange

          Support for WACOM/NTRIG tablet pc including Pressure support, handwriting recognition, Writing->Text Batch process

          Commecial and certified .NET based corporate software in the accounting and HR department

          DATEV

          Certified HBCI compatible Electronic Banking

          WSUS (and no, 3rd party repositories outside of company control are not!)

          Equivalent to Lightroom and the camera supplied software (I actually can limp along with GIMP for the rest since I am a bit of a miser)

          Running the games I want to play

          Ease of buying current gen hardware without checking "is it compatible"

          10+ years of update support

          All on the same level of capabilities and ease of installation. So no WINE stuff, no extra VM, no praying that the CS-Driver for "card x / device y" works with the current kernel etc. And at no loss in performance compared to Windows either, if my graphic card can do something, it MUST be useable!

  18. king of foo

    too bad...

    Nobody in business will ever see it. Move along please,nothing to see here.

    Business will likely be ready for an upgrade from w7 in 2020 (I'm expecting a new windows "vision" or some other such play on pilots/clarity/whatever) so will skip 8+9 entirely. Unless 10 is really shit, in which case 9 would be the new 7.

    Let's pray that by then the os doesn't matter any more and we're all using our knew "nappy interface" where taking a dump has a new (but somehow old) meaning...

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      I think that 2020 is too soon for that. WinXP lasted more than a decade because it was good enough. Windows 7 is good enough, and familiar.

      Companies have other things to do than constantly upgrade their workstations - the Vista fiasco was a wake-up call, and Win8 was the confirmation that they do not have to.

      Since WinXP was only retired when it could no longer run current hardware, there is no reason to think that Win7 will be retired before that point either. Corporations will stick with it as long as it works.

      Microsoft can make as many new failures of Windows as it wants in the interval.

    2. mmeier

      Re: too bad...

      Business did a major upgrade wave in 2013 to get XP out. With a typical three-five years lease on office systems I expect the next change to start 2016 with a peak around 2017.

  19. Chairo

    Who cares about the looks?

    I wonder why everybody here only complains about the user interface and TIFCAM stuff. The far more important point IMO is the way Microsoft tries to force people into their cloud and their crappstore. And I don't see that this would change with windows 9 (or whatever it will be called).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who cares about the looks?

      Definitely. TIFKAM just gave us something tangible to hate (which can be removed via 3rd party software, which we're all capable of doing, here).

      Let's see how Win9 fits in with their "mobile-first cloud-first" strategy. I hope it doesn't - I use my Chromebook for that, so I'd have no use for Windows if they go along with it.

      MS: Can I have my desktop computer back, please?

    2. mmeier

      Re: Who cares about the looks?

      I still can not see how W8 forces "Cloud" or "Appstore". Cloud is 100 percent optional (Yes, you can install/activate etc, W8 without an MS account. And there is no special tool etc. needed either).

      And Modern UI Apps are an "if you want it" part not a "can use only this" part on the x86 version (RT is similar to an iPad - official store only). If you do not need Apps, and on a desktop or a tablet pc you do not (tablets otoh - but hey, just say no to touchy toys!) you install the same software you ran under W7 the same way you did under W7.

  20. localzuk

    Only moved to Windows 7 last year here...

    Highly unlikely we'll end up migrating to something else for at least a couple of years - doing so is a BIG pain to do, ensuring application compatibility, user retraining etc...

    So, not sure how many enterprise customers will be willing to move to 9 or whatever it ends up being called.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Only moved to Windows 7 last year here...

      You knew it would be a pain moving from 7, and you knew that you'd have to do it eventually, so what made you do it in the first place?

      1. localzuk

        Re: Only moved to Windows 7 last year here...

        The requirements of our organisation made us do it.

      2. Pascal Monett Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: what made you do it in the first place

        What a stupid argument.

        You know you will die at some point, why not do that now ?

        1. mmeier

          Re: what made you do it in the first place

          Suicide is a sin and running Amok prior to it is illegal here in germany.

          And if you refer to Windows - no, you won't. The typical corp workplace is a dozend commonly used programs pinned to the desktop. Win 8 easily can do that AND can "boot to desktop" automatically since W8.1 (free update!) So for the average office worker nothing serious changes.

  21. MikeyD85

    Quite looking forward to it to be honest

    It looks nice, it'll have Direct X 12 at some point, it is less touch-centric than Window 8.

    I mean, that'll do for me really. I quite liked the way Windows 8 felt and ran, just wasn't keen on TIFKAM.

  22. Sheep!

    If it's not "Windows 7 with touch overlay" they can piss off.

  23. Cuddles Silver badge

    "Last year we had Windows 8"

    Windows 8 was released in 2012. According to my calendar, it's currently 2014.

  24. Potemkine Silver badge

    Odd-even rule...

    .. for MS is just the opposite of Star trek one.

    There must be a conspiracy somewhere...

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I should used the joke Icon . But for true pain unit shell on win 95

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