back to article Sony says year's losses will be four times deeper than thought

Sony shares dropped more than eight per cent today after the firm warned that it expects losses for this year to be four times as bad as it previously predicted. The Japanese company now reckons losses for the year to March will reach the dizzying heights of ¥230bn ($2.12bn) as its smartphone business suffers in comparison to …

  1. LucreLout Silver badge

    Surely the time has come for Sony execs to realise the jig is up. Break up the company and set the profitable divisions free..... otherwise there's not gonna be a PS5.

    1. TheVogon Silver badge

      Microsoft just released a media player for the Xbox One that plays pretty much anything (including MKVs!), supports DNLA media servers and is not Cinavia infected!

      Once that becomes well known it will likely make quite a dent in the sales of PS4s. Not a good week for Sony.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @TheVogon

        PS4 owners aren't pikey movie pirates, we don't care about Cinavia or MKV (both of which are synonymous with movie piracy).

        Keep on dreaming that PS4 sales are going to slow. The Xbone only worthwhile exclusive (Titanfail) turned out to be an overhyped dud.

        1. TheVogon Silver badge

          Re: @TheVogon

          "PS4 owners aren't pikey movie pirates, we don't care about Cinavia or MKV (both of which are synonymous with movie piracy)."

          LOL - you complete idiot - you clearly have no clue whatsoever. The PS4 forums are full of people complaining about it. Just because you waste your money on the copyright cartels, don't assume everyone else does. Statistics show that you are in a minority.

          "Keep on dreaming that PS4 sales are going to slow. The Xbone only worthwhile exclusive (Titanfail) turned out to be an overhyped dud."

          Again you just show yourself to be an uninformed idiot. Titanfall has sold over 2 million copies globally. That's over 500,000 more than Infamous: Second Son - on the PS4

      2. Levente Szileszky

        Yeah, too bad the Xbone is not even capable to play games in 1080p - it's unlikely to make any dent in PS4 sales (HINT: it's 2014, nobody except a complete idiot buys a $400 console to play back torrented videos when literally any phone, tablet etc can do that.)

    2. WalterWonkite

      Yes I think they attempted that with the VAIO division LMAO!! turns out it just produces sh*t laptops.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Yes I think they attempted that with the VAIO division LMAO!! turns out it just produces sh*t laptops.

        That has not been my experience. Mine has more been like "they produce damn good laptops which need a lot of crud removed", but IMHO the machines were worth their high price both in spec and design. I think they were doing thin before Apple came up with the idea.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Some continuity required??

      Sony do release some awesome stuff, their current smartphones are pretty good.

      but when they do well and release good products in one area they totally drop the ball in another.

      5 or so years ago Sony tellys were the best, cracking picture and awesome sound, but their phones were utter cack - they were a good year behind the times with zero innovation.

      Now they've worked wonders on their phone range, but other products are rubbish.

      Whats going on over there???

      1. Keef

        Re: Some continuity required??

        "5 or so years ago Sony tellys were the best"

        Er, 5 years ago Sony were selling utterly crap Bravia TVs.

        Pretty much everything on the market was better, they were shit.

        Sharp Aquos were probably the best back then, not any more though, that probably falls to LG or Samsung.

        Recent Sony TVs are okay, but I'm sufficiently pissed off with them that I'll never give them my money or business again.

        1. Joerg

          Re: Some continuity required??

          Keef: "Er, 5 years ago Sony were selling utterly crap Bravia TVs.

          Pretty much everything on the market was better, they were shit."

          What a silly lame lie. 5 years ago Sony and Samsung were still manufacturing the whole LCD panels and tech together in the most advanced factory in the world that they built from scratch. Then Sony quit.

          1. Keef

            Re: Some continuity required??

            You may think it's a "silly lame lie" but I would like to disagree.

            The glass may have been shared but the engine driving it was not.

            Early Bravias were (and still are if there are any not in landfill) shit.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Some continuity required??

        Sony do release some awesome stuff, their current smartphones are pretty good.

        but when they do well and release good products in one area they totally drop the ball in another.

        5 or so years ago Sony tellys were the best, cracking picture and awesome sound, but their phones were utter cack - they were a good year behind the times with zero innovation.

        Now they've worked wonders on their phone range, but other products are rubbish.

        Whats going on over there???

        They probably only have one reasonable set of engineers between all the managers and directors, so they keep moving them around for firefighting instead of paying for some more capable people. It's the natural last stage of death of any organisation where finance starts to trump the delivery of what customers need - the stage preceeding this is usually called "believing your own marketing but your customers don't", which is where I see MS land in not too long a time.

      3. DJV Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: Some continuity required??

        "5 or so years ago Sony tellys were the best"

        40 years ago, more like!

      4. Vic

        Re: Some continuity required??

        Whats going on over there???

        I don't know how much it's changed since I left, but back then it was a simple case of beancounteritis.

        Sony traditionally traded on its reputation of producing *excellence*. It was always more expensive, but you didn't mind paying the extra because you knew you were buying quality.

        Then the beancounters came in and reduced the BOMs everywhere to "maximise" profit. The quality fell. There can be only one outcome form there on in...

        Vic.

    4. Rampant Spaniel

      Sad news indeed, Sony have made some great products over the years (I had a trinitron set, the first 3 play stations and we have a Sony flat screen and bluray now) but also some stinkers, I nearly got one if their phones but iirc it had a fixed battery. Their camera and sensor business is doing very well. It would be sad to see the great parts of the company sink because they held onto poorly performing areas.

    5. mi1400

      Sony thinks that people cant comprehend its models psychology. Dear sony we do .. u Just need playstation marketing team doing duty for phones too. You released XperiaRay with 297dpi i.e. 2 years before Apple and Apple after i guess 2 years started bragging retina display (300dpi) on phones. We are not the people who thinks only Xperia-Z-Ultra is super-size, we know Xperia-T2-Ultra, we know Xperia-T3.. its just ur marketing team is applying deceiving names to this category i.e. T3 should also had suffix Ultra. We also know Xperia-SX is japan specific and could have been labeled Xperia-Ray-2 .. for past three month i have been fanatically trying to cheaply get Xperia-SX shipped out of japan. If u want to cover losses as described in this article... plz streamline ur model naming convention... plz bring out proper labeled Xperia-Ray-2, plz bring out Xperia-Z3-Ultra (Target T2 Ultra, T3 budget super size with different model convention). Plz quickly bring out SnapDragon805 or SnapDragon615 based phones hurriedly. When ppl see a sony phone coming late after competion's phone they think 4 month to get its priced down hence they go for samsung etc.. if u launch phone along the same dates then after 4 months ur phone will still be in demand for ppl waiting for its price slide.

      We also know sony did 1.5 years research to slim down XperiaRay to its formfactor. We also know ebay.co.uk yields ZERO results for Xperia-SX. We also know the reason why Xperia-SX is not released outside of Japan is.... "Japanese keep the best for themselves" (literally google that http://www.google.com.pk/search?q=%22Japanese+keep+the+best+for+themselves&q=%22 ) We also know that google yields millions of IMAGE results for "shattered Nokia" http://www.google.com.pk/search?q=%22shattered+Nokia&q=%22 ... "shattered HTC" http://www.google.com.pk/search?q=%22shattered+HTC&q=%22 ... "shattered Samsung" http://www.google.com.pk/search?q=%22shattered+Samsung&q=%22 ...

      "Shattered iPhone" https://www.google.com.pk/search?q=%22shattered+iphone%22&safe=active&biw=1366&bih=600&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=09QaVPP4MYfvOpzzgYAC&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ ... but yielded 1-2 image results for "shattered Xperia" http://images.google.com.pk/search?q=%22shattered+Xperia&q=%22 ... we also know this is because gorilla glass maybe scratch-proof but is not shatter-proof. Xperia is also Shatter Proof.

      We also know that in desperation we have found https://www.rinkya.com/en/ to get stuff out of Japan .. its just only stuck translating japanese praises about its condition seller is writting and meant about it. We also now know that http://auctions.search.yahoo.co.jp/search?n=100&ei=UTF-8&p=xperia+sx&oq=&auccat=0&select=02&tab_ex=commerce&slider=0 ... is ebay equivalent in japan and https://www.rinkya.com/en/ works as bridged with it to enable buying that search result item in http://auctions.search.yahoo.co.jp through rinkya...

      The only annoyance I get from them is committing upcoming Android version for said set of released phones, then backtracking from that or severely re-narrowing the list upon accrual release of that android version.

  2. John G Imrie Silver badge

    Well I'm still waiting for an appollogy

    for the root kit fiasco and an apology to George Hotz the before I'll by any Sony kit.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well I'm still waiting for an appollogy

      Then you got a long wait.

      the "root kit fiasco" was First4Internet, and the pleb Hotz deserved everything he got.

      Still it's your loss, as Sony make some of the best kit going, especially cameras phones and consoles.

      Sony provide cameras for most of the main DSLRs too, Nikon, Cannon, Olympus, and most of the mobiles, iPhone, HTC, etc. So I guess you don't have any of those either.

      God forbid you watched Breaking Bad, also from Sony...

      Or do you have some kind of cherrypicked criteria about which parts you will and won't "by"?

      1. returnmyjedi

        Re: Well I'm still waiting for an appollogy

        "Sony provide cameras for most of the main DSLRs too, Nikon, Cannon, Olympus, and most of the mobiles"

        They provide the sensors for some of the camera manufacturers you mentioned, predominantly in the lower echelons of the product ranges where profits are very slim. They don't produce the actual cameras as your post infers.

        1. hammarbtyp Silver badge

          Re: Well I'm still waiting for an appollogy

          They provide the sensors for some of the camera manufacturers you mentioned, predominantly in the lower echelons of the product ranges

          First time I've heard the Nikon D810 as a lower echelon of camera products.

          On that basis I would love to have one of the upper ones

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Well I'm still waiting for an appollogy

          Sorry, meant sensors, not sure why I typed cameras.

      2. John G Imrie Silver badge

        Re: Well I'm still waiting for an appollogy

        Haven't watched bought or used anything on that list. I guess others are doing the same, hence the loss.

      3. Rampant Spaniel

        Re: Well I'm still waiting for an appollogy

        Canon design and fab their own sensors, at least in all their dslrs.

        Nikon do use Sony sensors in their low and mid range cameras but their top tier camera sensor is designed in house and fabbed by someone else, usually Renesas. This may change in the future. Nikon don't tend to just directly use Sony sensors, the optical side of the sensor is pure Sony but the digital conversion uses a chunk of their own IP which is why you see the same resolution but better noise control even in RAW on a nikon using a Sony sensor.

        Hassie, phase one, pentax, and Olympus have started to use Sony sensors although not exclusively in some cases. Iirc fuji had them fab their sensors but it's a fuji design. But no, canon is all in house using lithography from 1920 which isn't far away from using felt tips on cling film over a lamp shade.

      4. mi1400

        Re: Well I'm still waiting for an appollogy

        have to agree with AC... tell them why apple sue everyone around and not sony !?! ... I hate sony too... but not just for sake for hatting... AC tell sony haters that Not only Sony Sensors are used in highend other brands but also Sony and Nikon bests canon on FAB process too.. Canon currently mostly is on as high as 130nm sensor FAB while Sony and Nikon are making sensors are on sub 45nm (gogole that)... sony sensor is also inside Hasselblad cameras ... eat this. Sony Haters see my other comment to see where I praise and hate sony.

    2. Greg J Preece
      Pint

      Christ's Sake

      I shouldn't read threads on Sony stories with my drinking game to hand.

      Someone still whining about the rootkit thing when even the format it happened on is dying fast...down the pint.

      1. Keef

        Re: Christ's Sake

        Two words:

        George Santayana.

  3. dogged

    In before

    Barry Shitpeas comes along to tell us this all a dirty lie spread by Apple and/or Microsoft.

    1. Rampant Spaniel

      Re: In before

      Is he still around?

      1. dogged

        Re: In before

        Good point - I doubt if Sony can afford him any more.

  4. Himalayaman
    Megaphone

    No worries!

    Everything is Awesome!

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maybe they'll rely on their broadcast/professional products to keep the ship afloat?

    But that ain't gonna work.

    Their support has been eroded to the point of frustration to the end user.

    The Sony support staff that remain are good, but polishing turds is a thankless task.

    Videotape, the DigiBeta/HDCAM (which were/are superb) is a dead end.

    S-AIT didn't work out well either, LTO anybody?

    So professionally I won't go near them, and the rootkit thing means my home palace is a Sony free zone.

  6. hammarbtyp Silver badge

    Time to move on

    Sony still makes good products, but they are just too slow to innovate. They showed with the PS4 that they can get things right, and the camera division has shown signs of out innovating Canon and Nikon.

    Where they get things wrong is where they think the Sony name is enough for market share, without the technical innovation to earn it. For too long a time they traded on the Sony walkman brand, long past the point when it had any market relevance. Same with the TV branding when they seriously missed the boat as the market moved from CRT to LCD TV's.

    Also they should dump the entertainment division. While it makes a profit, it also holds back innovation by requiring the media consumers to kow-tow to the requirements of the media producers.

    1. Joerg

      Re: Time to move on

      hammarbtyp: " They showed with the PS4 that they can get things right"

      The PS4 is a fraud just like the XBoxOne. Absolute shame. Managers stealing money and selling the worst possible crap, obsolete hardware that AMD managers sold them at a bargain price.

    2. Down not across Silver badge

      Re: Time to move on

      Sony still makes good products, but they are just too slow to innovate. They showed with the PS4 that they can get things right, and the camera division has shown signs of out innovating Canon and Nikon.

      Helped substantially by the acquisition of Konica-Minolta.

      1. Rampant Spaniel

        Re: Time to move on

        Yes and no. Their sensors are improving which is great. Their actual camera range and lenses is a nightmare. Everyone they get an ecosystem remotely established they have invented a new mount. They also seem to cost more than canon or nikon (compare the 70-200 2.8 is/vr lenses, canon is cheaper). So to recap they have the a mount range in both ff and apsc, the nex mount and now the FE mount. There is some cross compatibility but it usually stuffs performance royally. They have managed to release some very tempting bodies but the lense range just isn't there. Going mirror less was smart because their slt (inspired heavily by canon) approach exaggerated their sensors biggest flaw at the time, poor low light performance. The issue was they had gaps in their previous lens lineup, they were trying to flesh out the apsc slt line and refresh the aging full frame lineup their inherited from Minolta. They had to start over with nex lenses and now again with FE. Its also not as simple as just extending the mount to make up the different flange distance as you need to move the rear element for optimal performance. If they wanted to do it they needed to throw more resources at it and price stuff to sell. You can't price your 300 2.8 higher than canon and expect to sell many. Canon and Nikons latest are leg humpingly good. The Sony is close but doesn't beat them. Some of the Zeiss glass is amazing but again priced high. Weather sealing was another deal breaker.

        They will get there but it's a shame is taking so long.

  7. Fatman Silver badge
    FAIL

    Another loss for Sony

    Sony shares dropped more than eight per cent today after the firm warned that it expects losses for this year to be four times as bad as it previously predicted.

    Time to unload that dog if you are a shareholder.

    Do you really want to be in a similar predicament as the current stockholders of HP? (with incompetent managemen at the helmt?)

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I've always found...

    many Sony products being priced at the very high end of the market, thinking themselves as a premium brand, but most people I speak to, think they make nice stuff, just over priced.

    1. Joerg

      Re: I've always found...

      Lost all faith...: "I've always found...

      many Sony products being priced at the very high end of the market, thinking themselves as a premium brand, but most people I speak to, think they make nice stuff, just over priced."

      You and the people you speak to clearly don't have a clue what you are babbling about.

      Playstation, Playstation2, MiniDisc, DAT, Playstation3, Bravia Tv, Camcorders, SXRD projectors, 4K high-end professional projectors (JVC is still stuck at fake 4K .. just 1080p interpolated to 4K for its projectors) and so on are/have been absolutely top-notch products worth their price.

  9. Rampant Spaniel

    Trinitron Rage

    Perhaps this is karmic justice for inflicting trinitron rage upon the world. For those who haven't owned a trinitron set, this rage occurs when you get your squillion pound (in both weight and money) trinitron set home and bask in its awesome quality then some cnut points out the two little wires that you were happily oblivious to before. Then all you can see forever more (as those sets are actually indestructible) is those two little +×÷=ing wires across the middle of the screen. It was even worse with the trinitron monitors. The upside was the pigs were well fed.

  10. Mikel

    It isn't commonly known

    Sony is an insurance company that dabbles in consumer electronics as a hobby.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sony is a great example of what happens when you implement...

    ...American-style management practices.

    1. Rampant Spaniel

      Re: Sony is a great example of what happens when you implement...

      Did they? I know the world went 6 sigma crazy at one point (I was a tangerine belt project ninja champion warlord) but besides a weekend rafting and a few extra meetings it was fairly harmless. I thought they just missed the shifting of some core markets like TV and computing by being too stubborn and not investing enough in keeping ahead, although I am probably totally wrong.

      I'm not saying you are wrong, just curious about you thoughts on what they did.

  12. DerekCurrie Bronze badge
    Devil

    The Horror Of Marketing-As-Management

    Dear Sony,

    A free clue: FIRE the marketing guy CEO ruining your company ASAP. Never, ever put a marketing executive in charge of your company again.

    Dear Rest Of The World,

    Watch what's happening to Sony right now. This proves once again that growing, thriving organizations require entrepreneurial leaders. If you want to kill your organization, by all means put a marketing executive in charge.

    My credentials? I worked at Eastman Kodak while Marketing-As-Management destroyed the company. This problem has been proven to be universal in business throughout history. Here's the lesson. Learn.

    1. Rampant Spaniel

      Re: The Horror Of Marketing-As-Management

      As a photographer, looking from the outside in, Kodak ' s biggest mistake seemed to be the half hearted approach to digital and the belief that going all in on dslrs would kill their film business. Sadly they seemed to forget that other companies might make dslrs. They made some great products, besides film (I have to admit to preferring fuji film) there were a couple of impressive dslrs ( the14n/c were epic) and some great ccd sensors that went into medium formats. If they had developed their own body and mount along with a range of lenses to replace lost film revenue I think they would still be around and a big player.

      So rather than infighting and the film division restricting digital development it was just plain bad management? Sad, I really liked kodak.

  13. Hubert Thrunge Jr.
    Facepalm

    Oh dear

    They need to keep developing new slick funky technically advanced and affordable devices for people to buy. Marketing men don't do development, they often spend their day trying to polish turds. You can't polish a turd, you can roll it in glitter to make it look better, but it's still a turd.

  14. Ian Watkinson

    Poor customer service and not listening to your customers will do that.

    Just gone from iphone to sony Z2.

    Quite a culture shock on the support front, apple, lets get this to work. Sony it's not our fault and if it is, we're not going to fix it.

    Looking at the Z - Z1 - Z2 - Z3, still the areas where customers are asking for fixes, not implemented.

    Finally, apples releases software it goes on phones.

    Sony releases their software, is disappears to the network.

    Erm I bought the phone, give me the choice. Voda/O2/Orange will soon perk up if they don't get the update out the door quick enough, then people will go with the unbranded version.

  15. Levente Szileszky

    Stop going for the low-end...

    ...and keep making & selling high-end Xperia phones, Sony. Low-end might gets you numbers but will certainly cut into your profits, for sure.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019