back to article Gartner mages throw deduping backup appliance bones, claim EMC's in lead

Gartner has released its first deduplication target backup appliance Magic Quadrant, confirming EMC's Data Domain in the lead but placing HP in a distinct second place, Quantum as a challenger and Exagrid as a visionary – surprise all round. The MQ is a (the) classic 4-box diagram, placing suppliers in a 2D space defined by " …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wow! All credibility lost! Of course the marketing heavy companies will always be in the top, but separating EMC this much from the rest seems a bit weird after reading up on what you can and cannot do with the products.

    Well, I guess the wining and dining dimension has quite a high weight in this paper.

  2. David Halko
    IT Angle

    Where is Oracle/Sun/StorageTek? CommVault?

    This Gartner magic quadrant looks really out of left-field.

    Where is Oracle/StorageTek?

    Oracle/Sun had been doing dedup ZFS for about a decade and Oracle/Sun's StorageTek released deduplication back in 2008...

    http://vmblog.com/archive/2008/04/07/sun-adds-new-de-duplication-capabilities-to-leading-virtual-tape-library-storage-portfolio.aspx

    What happened to CommVault?

    The Reg was wondering why others were not doing Tape DeDupe back in 2011, mentioning IBM and Quantum were theorizing at the time (yet these companies appeared in the Gartner list?)

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/06/tape_industry_lacks_innovation/

    CommVault have been recognized in Gartner as a backup leader for nearly a half-decade.

    http://www.commvault.com/itleaders?mq=cvm_i

    No haters please, just really curious...

    1. Jase 1

      Re: Where is Oracle/Sun/StorageTek? CommVault?

      This MQ is for target dedupe devices only

    2. Nate Amsden Silver badge

      Re: Where is Oracle/Sun/StorageTek? CommVault?

      zfs dedupe is in a different league. It's more for online storage not for backups. I am in the midst of migrating from a ZFS (Nexenta) based dedupe+compression store to HP StoreOnce, ZFS gives me less than 6:1 dedupe(on a data volume dedicated for backups).

      StoreOnce on my biggest file set is over 40:1 and still going (I suspect will continue to grow as I expanded the # of backups to store from 14 to 60 and I'm not even at 30 at the moment). My biggest backups are from our OLTP mysql instance - StoreOnce says there is 10.9TB of user data stored in 241GB of disk space (less size than one full pre-dedupe backup!). All other backups combined are less than 1.5TB of user data written.

      Wherever possible (mysql especially) we are doing full unencrypted, uncompressed backups to get maximum dedupe (same as we were doing on ZFS). Percona xtrabackup is our backup tool of choice for MySQL at the moment.

      By contrast devices like HP StoreOnce(or data domain etc) are REALLY REALLY bad for online transaction type stuff(they urge you in their docs to not attempt it). It's really built for sequential operations.

      I only use StoreOnce in NAS mode, so can't vouch for any other abilities (an update in July increased it's NAS scalability to 1 million files per share from 25k which was too limiting for us - 1 million is plenty though). The one thing that StoreOnce can't do that I'd like it to do is support for symbolic (or hard) links on the NAS. I exchanged some emails with the HP product manager for StoreOnce a few months ago and they were going to look at whether or not they could add that feature.

      I'm not personally aware of a dedupe Disk to disk backup appliance that is similar to StoreOnce or EMC Data Domain from Oracle or Commvault (though I haven't looked at either recently).

    3. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Supernova Halko Re: Where is Oracle/Sun/StorageTek? CommVault?

      ".....Oracle/Sun had been doing dedup ZFS for about a decade....." The Gartner MQ is for complete appliances, not hobby filesystems and kludged-together mashups.

      1. King1Con
        FAIL

        Re: Hater Bryant Where is Oracle/Sun/StorageTek? CommVault?

        He said "no haters"...

        You contributed nothing of value with your comment and personal assault.

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: King1Con Re: Hater Bryant Where is Oracle/Sun/StorageTek? CommVault?

          ".....You contributed nothing of value with your comment and personal assault." Please do post some verifiable info on ZFS-based backup and encryption appliances. Once again for the Sunshiners, if ZFS is as wonderful as you all propagandise, why is its market penetration virtually a big, fat zero? You can't even give the tech away for free! Apart from a few niche players like Nexenta's NexentaStor (a virtualized storage device and not a backup appliance), ZFS has been ignored, even in the cheap end of the storage market. But your continued denial is quite amusing.

  3. unredeemed

    Commvault is software, and not an appliance. StorageTek isn't really a backup appliance, but more so a NAS. Though Oracle will sometimes say otherwise...

    That said, DataDomain has the biggest market share and the most flexible options. It's the oldest product too. It's got a lot of features, and a lot of features that can work concurrently, not to mention more compatibility/integration with 3rd parties than anyone. If only it didn't cost so much...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Useless

    What a useless MQ for a dying technology. "Purpose built dedupe appliances" were great 5 years ago but its just software and any backup app worth its value integrates it into the product with the biggest benefit at the source.

    History:

    1. VTL enabled easier backup to disk

    2. Dedupe appliances allowed retaining more backups on disk with NFS/CIFS ability

    Dedupe is a feature now. This MQ is simply an EMC marketing document to squeeze the last juice from the data domain fruit. Great acquisition at the time and EMC made a lot of money selling them but its time to move on.

    Maybe their lead is so big because nobody is trying to catch up anymore.

  5. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yes but Dell's ability to execute is limited by their relatively low end product shoe horning Ocarina into a backup appliance, IBM's is that they lost focus and fell hopelessly behind with the Dilligent product. Exagrid is post process and although it scales out, each node isn't particularly large and scale out is still limited to relatively small environments.

      HDS Just bought Sepaton who despite being one of the first to market and being very scalable have had a number of directional changes and struggled for mind share as a result. With HDS in the driving seat they could get much more focus going forward but given their relative complexity I doubt they'll be able to take huge market share.

      EMC with Data Domain have a good product and are way ahead of everyone else in terms of market share, ecosystem support and thus their ability to execute. Technically they look to be falling behind the likes of HP, but the backup market, especially SW and appliances has always been sticky, once you have footprint you're in for the long haul.

      HP has the more scalable and arguably more functional solution these days. However they've traditionally struggled with the wider backup ecosystem support. That looks to be changing though as the StoreOnce product gets more focus and matures.

      There are also plenty of software only solutions out there, but these don't tend to stack up at scale where some of the bigger appliances play and if you have a big appliance at the core, it typically makes sense to have the smaller appliances at the edge.

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