back to article Microsoft throws old versions of Internet Explorer under the bus

Microsoft has confirmed that it's ending support for old versions of Internet Explorer, and it's giving you just shy of 18 months to get up to date. Roger Capriotti, director of the IE team, blogged on Thursday that beginning on January 12, 2016, only the most recent version of IE on any supported version of Windows will …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Best Browser

    IE - the best browser for downloading Firefox or Chrome with.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Best Browser

      I dunno about that, it's a close call between IE and running ftp with cmd.exe.

    2. edge_e
      Coat

      Re: Best Browser

      there's an apt for that

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Joke

        Re: Best Browser

        I thought a comment like that would emerge…

        1. present_arms

          Re: Best Browser

          I found it Yum(my)

        2. Fungus Bob Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Best Browser

          Oh, yum, tarballs again!

      2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: Best Browser

        sorry, but my

        'yum' beats your 'apt'.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Best Browser

          zypper it up, please

        2. Chika
          Linux

          Re: Best Browser

          Oh, zypp it!

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Best Browser

          'yum' beats your 'apt'.

          Really, how about pacman?

      3. RAMChYLD

        Re: Best Browser

        Except that Seamonkey isn't in any of the *buntu's repo. And Debian stopped carrying it in favor of their spinoff called IceApe.

        No, you have to manually add a repo to get Seamonkey.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Best Browser

          "Except that Seamonkey isn't in any of the *buntu's repo. And Debian stopped carrying it in favor of their spinoff called IceApe.

          No, you have to manually add a repo to get Seamonkey."

          There's a repo for Seamonkey? I just download the tarball, punt it to /opt & extract.

        2. dajames Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Seamonkey

          ... Debian stopped carrying it in favor of their spinoff called IceApe.

          Iceape isn't a "spinoff" ... it's Seamonkey with Mozilla's (trademarked) branding removed.

          1. A Known Coward

            Re: Seamonkey

            "Iceape isn't a 'spinoff' ... it's Seamonkey with Mozilla's (trademarked) branding removed."

            And they were forced to remove that branding because ...

            Yes, that's correct, they modified the code. It's a fork of Seamonkey, a spin-off, it's a knock-off, it's not the genuine article.

            Speaking as an open source developer who is about 5 minutes away from requiring Debian to stop using a trademark for the same reason. Their buggy, broken packages which apply unauthorized patches are damaging to the reputation of many software projects. That's when they aren't introducing huge security flaws (SSH keys etc).

    3. Mikel

      Re: Best Browser

      I was just explaining this to a nontechnical end user. The blue e is the tool included with Windows that pros use to install the software you need to access the Internet safely.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      IE: the Notepad of browsers.

      It's bundled with the OS, ticks a box.

      You use it once on a new machine, then install a proper one.

    5. Julian Taylor Silver badge
      IT Angle

      Re: Best Browser

      Never mind, Modernizr's being doing most of the heavy lifting for MSFT for the past 5 years anyway.

    6. NogginTheNog
      FAIL

      Re: Best Browser

      Sorry but total fail to any IT professional recommending Chrome.

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Best Browser

        Sorry but total fail to any IT professional recommending Chrome.

        I know. They should be using Lynx instead.

      2. Wisteela
        Facepalm

        Re: Best Browser

        "Sorry but total fail to any IT professional recommending Chrome."

        And why's that then, oh obvious pro?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Best Browser

        "Sorry but total fail to any IT professional recommending Chrome."

        +1 - Chrome has had vastly more security holes than current IE versions. The last 4 major releases of IE have all been faster then the current version of Chrome at the time. Not to mention that Chrome is spyware by design.

        1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

          Re: Best Browser

          "Not to mention that Chrome is spyware by design."

          So is windows.

          Now excuse me, I need to search for my private documents on my local network, but have that all reported to Microsoft along with my username, e-mail address and password so that they can include Bing results.

          Grand.

    7. Daniel von Asmuth Bronze badge
      Windows

      Re: Best Browser

      It may not be the best browser, but what about all those web site that work only with IE6?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My computer

    already ended support for IE long ago.

  3. Buzzword

    Product to Service

    It's amazing how quickly we've shifted from the idea that software is a product you buy once (with a service pack or two to fix bugs later) to the idea that it's a service which is constantly kept up-to-date. It works surprisingly well for consumers (e.g. on smartphones), but businesses are taking a while to adapt to this new reality. Hence companies still using Windows XP today.

    1. MrRtd

      Re: Product to Service

      This is true. However going the purely subscription-based model is not ideal for all users or for all software.

      I believe there should be a choice between buy once use forever (with a time limited support period) or the subscription model.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Product to Service

        It's also worth mentioning that software is becoming less of a standalone product and more of a subsidy. Google gives away Android to get users buying from Google Play and viewing AdSense ads. Apple gives away OS X because they make far more money on the Mac hardware. Microsoft loses out in this situation inherently, because they don't have any popular products or services that Windows acts as a subsidy for.

        1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

          Re: Product to Service

          Microsoft loses out in this situation inherently, because they don't have any popular products or services that Windows acts as a subsidy for.

          Office? Exchange?

          1. hplasm Silver badge
            Devil

            Re: Product to Service

            "Office? Exchange?"

            He did say 'popular products'

            1. chivo243 Silver badge
              Joke

              Re: Product to Service

              I think we have to distinguish "popular" and "default".

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Product to Service

            "Office? Exchange?"

            Nope - those are both vast profit makers in their own right.

            Perhaps Bing?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Product to Service

          Google gives away Android to get users buying from Google Play and viewing AdSense ads

          Google gives away Android to steal data and get users buying from Google Play and viewing AdSense ads

          FIFY

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Product to Service

            Google gives away Android ...

            And Microsoft can't even give away anything.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Product to Service

            > "Google gives away Android to steal data"

            Sorry, perhaps I'm showing my ignorance (I've never used Android), but how are they "stealing" data?

            Please explain, in your own words without echoing your fellow fanboy keyboard-warrior forum trolls.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Product to Service

            Google gives away Android to steal data and get users buying from Google Play and viewing AdSense ads

            I agree with your sentiment, but technically speaking they're not 'stealing' anything since it's all made clear in their T&Cs, even though of course almost no-one ever reads them!

          4. Ken Hagan Gold badge

            Re: Product to Service

            "Google gives away Android ..."

            ...because most of it was originally free.

            And in any case, one of the frequent gripes about Android is that they *don't* give it away free. Instead, you are frequently left with the version that your product shipped with, bugs and all.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Buzzword - Re: Product to Service

      It's amazing how quickly we were shafted... sorry! I meant shifted to the idea that it's a service.

    3. Mikel

      Re: Product to Service

      Not as suddenly as we went to the concept of paying for software. Believe it or not, once upon a time that you might charge money for that was absurd.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Product to Service

        "Believe it or not, once upon a time that you might charge money for that was absurd."

        Ah yes, the good old days when total vendor lock-in was just taken for granted as the only conceivable business model, if only because no-one except the original vendor had adequate documentation to write programs.

  4. stephajn

    I only wish....

    .....that they didn't wait quite so long. I'm working on a project that has as its mandate to support IE9 and later. For the most part I haven't run into TOO many problems with it. But if I had my way I'd drop support for IE9 and say you need IE10 and later. But alas.....because of the reasons stated in the article with Windows Vista, IE9 still has to stay on our radar, and thus things like <input type=number> just can't get used yet.

    Anyone at Microsoft listening.....if you could hustle it up a bit and drop support for IE9....that'd be great...really....just....yeah. :)

    1. dogged

      Re: I only wish....

      Fixable.

      Modernizr.load({

      test: Modernizr.inputtypes.number,

      nope: "js/jquery-ui.custom.js",

      callback: function() {

      $("input[type=number]").spinner();

      }

      });

      There ya go.

    2. Kubla Cant Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: I only wish....

      mandate to support IE9 and later

      IE9? Luxury!

      I'm working on a project where the "corporate standard" is IE8. Even if you install IE10, there's a setting in Group Policy that makes it pretend to be IE8, and naturally only a BOFH can change that.

      Users are constantly complaining about the slow performance of the web UI. It's fine on IE10, but it runs like cold molasses on IE8.

      1. chris lively

        Re: I only wish....

        Sounds like you are working in a place whose only real answer is to fire IT administration. I'd leave

  5. pip25
    Meh

    I cannot upgrade

    IE10 requires a "platform update" (KB2670838) to be installed on Windows 7 that completely breaks Aero on my desktop, so I'm stuck with IE9. Well, at least I don't use it much...

    1. Mint Sauce
      Stop

      Re: I cannot upgrade

      Likewise. At work I am running Windows 8, which only supports, er, IE10. You need 8.1 to run IE11, and the upgrade is not [currently] available to me. My win 7 machine at home runs IE11 perfectly fine of course. Way to go, Microsoft!

      Firefox is my usual browser of choice but I still use IE for a few work related sites

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I cannot upgrade

        Same here! And I'm unable to upgrade to 8.1 because my graphics card is incompatible with it - even though it works on 8.0!

        Fortunately, X supports it.

    2. sabroni Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: completely breaks Aero on my desktop

      Indeed, who can work without translucent windows!

    3. Hans 1 Silver badge

      Re: I cannot upgrade

      You run aero ???? Seriously? You are wasting resources. Turn that crap off and your computer will fly!

  6. Denarius Silver badge
    Unhappy

    this is terrible

    More sense from Microsoft. Where is my pet hate object going to come from? Current government data snatching wont do as it has not the class of M$ in the old days.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: this is terrible

      You can still vent your spleen at those who insist on ancient web browsers…

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: this is terrible

        We still get about one person a month demanding we make our service IE6-compatible. Usually an office-drone from a Korean Chaebol or Japanese mega-conglomorate. They really like to eek out every second of life from the terminals in their cubicle farms. We simply send them our standard estimate for custom-development costs to make the whole thing IE6 compatible and they go away. Or get very angry with us.

        We have too many other customers asking us for actual features to waste time appeasing a handful of prospective customers who demand we support a many-time-obsolete browser. The service works on IE8, even XP houses have no excuse.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    no problem provided

    The website you need to use is in tune with MS's stance.

    A certain banking organization has a web-based service for corporate customers to carry out the usual sort of internet banking functions.

    however when setting up for access, we found that IE11 is an unsupported configuration. It probably works, but if you hit a snag the bank's call centre won't help you.

    (i know that FF ESR versions are an alternative)

  8. N2 Silver badge

    Of everything

    That Microsoft have junked

    It would be great if they threw all versions of IE away

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Of everything

      Of everything

      That Microsoft have junked

      It would be great if they threw all versions of IE away

      .. and Windows. :)

    2. dogged

      Re: Of everything

      Leaving only Gecko and Webkit because choice is bad?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Of everything

        > Leaving only Gecko and Webkit because choice is bad?

        Exactly!

        IE is the underdog we have to pitty, the fat-kid on sports day we all have to cheer (and giggle at). Without it, we'd have nothing to pick on and ridicule.

        What else would we use as bad sign when interviewing someone??

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What else would we use as bad sign when interviewing someone?

          The fact that they have a decades old chip on their shoulder about MS?

          1. Denarius Silver badge
            Go

            Re: What else would we use as bad sign when interviewing someone?

            it is not a bad sign, it is tradition. Where is the old fogey icon ?

        2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          Re: Of everything

          "IE is the underdog we have to pitty,"

          I'd rather target a recent IE than an older webkit. The problem is not IE, per se. The problem is that Microsoft don't make their recent improvements to IE available on OSes that they claim to still support. I don't suppose it is even the fault of the IE product managers or developers. I'd be amazed if these decisions were not handed down from Stevie B, in a desparate and demonstrably self-destructive attempt to wring a few more upgrades out of "customers".

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's a disgrace

    It's a monumental disgrace that Microsucks continues to be allowed to sell defective O/Ss and software. If anyone else sold such defective products they would be forced out of business by the massive class action lawsuits.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's a disgrace

      It's a disgrace

      It's a monumental disgrace that Microsucks continues to be allowed to sell defective O/Ss and software. If anyone else sold such defective products they would be forced out of business by the massive class action lawsuits.

      Given that they got away with this 30+ years it's pretty much industry standard now, and there are some good reasons for it too: imagine a smaller shop having to insure for the kind of insane liabilities that go around in the US - you'd never have ANY innovation.

      The real disgrace is that companies continued to install it when it went bad - it took total crap like Vista to at least slow that down a bit..

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's a disgrace

      "It's a monumental disgrace that Microsucks continues to be allowed to sell defective O/Ss and software. If anyone else sold such defective products they would be forced out of business by the massive class action lawsuits."

      It tends to be far less 'defective' than the competiton these days....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's a disgrace

        It tends to be far less 'defective' than the competiton these days....

        OK, I'll bite. Name ONE you have actually used in anger for more than a month that is worse than any version of Windows from Microsoft.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Still the best

    IE 6.

    Never forget

  11. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "support websites that are coded using the competition's nonstandard features"

    The competition's non-standard features ? From MICROSOFT ?

    That is so rich, Croesus is spinning in his grave.

    1. Anonymous Bullard

      Re: "support websites that are coded using the competition's nonstandard features"

      They use different standards to the rest of the world.

      1. BongoJoe

        Re: "support websites that are coded using the competition's nonstandard features"

        They use different standards to the rest of the world.

        That's the great thing about Standards: there's so many of them.

    2. dogged

      Re: "support websites that are coded using the competition's nonstandard features"

      They're referring to sites coded with -webkit specific extensions.

      Unless you regard webkit as "standard", they're right.

      1. Anonymous Bullard

        Re: "support websites that are coded using the competition's nonstandard features"

        Well, using "-vendor-" prefixes for something that isn't yet standard is standard. It also allows you to try new things without being tied down with IE.

        Personally, I use Sass + Bourbon which handles the -vendor prefixes for me.

        The problem we're having is people are still using the -vendor prefixes for stuff that's now standard. Either they haven't updated their styles, or they're copy+pasting from stale sites.

        Also, Chrome (which uses webkit) is actually the most standards compliant: http://html5test.com/results/desktop.html. That's the main reason we use it for web-development.

        But I use FF for personal browsing. IE's just a test platform in a VM.

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: "support websites that are coded using the competition's nonstandard features"

          Also, Chrome (which uses webkit)

          No, Chrome has been using Blink for over a year now. While Blink started as a fork of Webkit it is not Webkit.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "support websites that are coded using the competition's nonstandard features"

            It still uses the -webkit prefix, however

          2. Anonymous Bullard
            Headmaster

            Re: "support websites that are coded using the competition's nonstandard features"

            While we're being pedants, Blink is a fork of WebCore, not WebKit, since Chrome has it's own Javascript engine.

            (It still handles -webkit)

            1. sabroni Silver badge
              Happy

              Re: "support websites that are coded using the competition's nonstandard features"

              That's the reg hacks trying to get the freetards to bite. Got to admire how well they know their audience!

  12. Displacement Activity

    IE6/NHS

    Just quoting for an NHS job:

    Web based applications have to run on a minimum of Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.

    Tossers.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: IE6/NHS

      It all depends on how much of a weasel you can be with the words "run on".

      With NHS and similar (gov) contracts you can usually nail the contract into the floor so that it works for you. Given the technical knowledge exhibited by the usual dead-tree botherers and the contractual small print skills of any technical types that, in a brief fit of sanity, might be brought in to look over the technical details, you can get a lot agreed that is in your favour and while stupid things like a minimum of IE6 support may be mandated, a great many NHS terminals have long term support FF or similar installed anyway. It's sometimes not an official policy but the local ICT staff tend to like the easy life and responding to users who find that IE6 just doesn't work on many websites they may require tends to result in alternative browsers being installed and users quickly get the hang of foibles such as "to use the internal system X, you must use Internet Explorer, but for anything else use this alternative instead".

  13. Wibble
    Mushroom

    Purgatory

    Microsoft should be forced to maintain these browsers in perpetuity as a penance for foisting such utterly appalling code on the world. And they should all wear hair shirts for two days a week.

    As an alternative, their company is condemned to insignificance. Seems to be their current strategy.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Purgatory

      as a penance for foisting such utterly appalling code on the world

      They deserve all the crap they get. They have hindered this industry over the decades.

      Liking Microsoft just isn't professional anymore.

      1. Denarius Silver badge
        Holmes

        Re: Purgatory

        >> Liking Microsoft just isn't professional anymore.

        You're kidding. Until around 2006 it was seen as a sign of being a mere pc fanboi, not proper computing. Real computers ran VMS, MVS/Zos or one of a multitude of unices. Fire suit on.

        1. Wibble

          Re: Purgatory

          Looks like the MS fanbois -- or PR twonks -- are out in force with their downvoting...

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's HMG screwed then ...

    They still think IE6 is bleeding edge.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That's HMG screwed then ...

      ""They still think IE6 is bleeding edge.""

      <snigger> it's not even out yet.

  15. Benjol

    "As Microsoft points out, however, most consumers won't have to worry about much of this – (...) – because they don't use IE"

    FTFY

  16. MJI Silver badge

    I have my parachute ready

    As soon as my old PC at home running XP has issues caused by EOL it gets Linuxed.

    I would dual boot but need another drive.

    What is weird is that I found it easy to install and use as a complete newbie, easier to use for a long term windows user than Win 8.

    I use Firefox

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wow! IE! There's a blast from the past!

    1. Anonymous Bullard

      >> Wow! IE! There's a blast from the past!

      Ahh yes, the gool ol' days...

      We didn't have to pick from a selection of browsers, or worry about cross-browser testing.

      It didn't even matter about it's limitations - ActiveX would run all sorts of code for us! And the crappy rendering made the web a poor platform, keeping us desktop developers in demand.

      What ever happened?

  18. b166er

    Always so many comedians on Microsoft threads. I'm rolling in the aisles. Pass the needle and thread, I've split my sides.

    Really though anyone have some caffeine so I can make it to the end of this comment thread? YYAAWWNN

    Commence the downvotes you stuck-in-the-muds

    (why did I take the time to post this? why did you take the time to repeat yourself once more?)

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How long this lesson will be remembered?

    This means current IE users of versions 6-9 either have to keep using unsupported software or do an unplanned and unexpected application upgrade. Which should shake budgets and leave a trail of other projects not done because of this.

    And I suppose they'll learn the lesson and stay away from non standard technologies (Microsoft's own interpretation of HTML standards, ActiveX controls, etc) in future application decisions. But for how long?

    Same as with economic bubbles, where a new one is formed as soon as the memories from the previous one vanish from the collective memory. How long it will take for people to fall again in the same trap?

    And yes, I reckon the alternatives are not perfect either, and were not at the time these decisions were made. But someone keeping for so long using IE6-9 without investing or budgeting for an application upgrade is just a fool.

    And no, don't bring the industrial automation example. Anyone purchasing industrial equipment that depends on apps running on proprietary OSs whose expiration date is well before the equipment is amortized is an even bigger fool.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How long this lesson will be remembered?

      don't bring the industrial automation example

      But what about my 20 year old automatic VHS assembling machine that requires XP because the company went bust before they finished making it?? Aren't I the norm?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: How long this lesson will be remembered?

        "requires XP because the company went bust before they finished making it??"

        Then you're busted, not because of XP but because the company no longer exists.

        "Aren't I the norm?"

        Definitely not

    2. BongoJoe

      Re: How long this lesson will be remembered?

      This is Microsoft having their heads well and truly jammed in the sand and don't look outside at the Real World at all.

      How many billions of lines of Visual Studio 6 is out there all working perfectly well? And if any of those applications requires a web control, even if it's not visible to the user on the form, then if the developer has any version of IE beyond version 9 then the code breaks.

      There is one, and only one documented solution to this problem and that is to use IE9.

      This is the development tool from Microsoft using Microsoft's own browser and is about to fall foul of Microsoft's own ruling.

      Yes, I know that Microsoft will enable one to get over this hurdle (they say) but is there any use me contacting them if they just turn around and say "Upgrade the world's C++ and VB6 applications. All of it. And then there will be no problem."

      They can't fix their own compatability issues so they just ignore them and pretend that there's not a single line of code out there written with Visual Studio 6.

      This policy of Microsoft's has all the hallmark of Canute's attempt at tide stemming . All it's going to do is to cut off people in the Real World from their updates.

      And I thought that my distaste for this once mighty company couldn't get any lower...

      1. dogged

        Re: How long this lesson will be remembered?

        Visual Studio 6?

        Seriously? You're complaining because a development tool issued in 1998 for the Win9x platform (which hasn't been supported since forever) is no longer supported? And you complain about the advice being to upgrade code produced in this sixteen year old environment?

        Are you trolling?

        1. BongoJoe

          Re: How long this lesson will be remembered?

          No, I am not trolling.

          I am talking about The Real World. The same world in which you and I live in where there are MILLIONS of lines of code out still functioning.

          There is no reason that an application should go out of date because a browser is updated. Why would you want to, say, have to be made to change your car because you bought a new television?

          It's one thing to stop supporting a language and I am not saying that the language should be supported. What I am saying is that the language shouldn't be broken because of a browser update. Microsoft say that they will help with upgrade issues from IE9 upwards but we know full well that they can't because they have broken everything.

          If you think that the answer is to upgrade the code then who is going to do it? You may be fortunate in that you're working for a company who has the latest in develpment systems and you're constantly giving youself paper cuts on the bleeding edge (I know what it's like I've been there) but sooner or later that code you are writing today is going to be code that's out of date in sixteen years time.

          Then you're going to be in the position of having to go back and support that code because no-one is going to pay you to rewrite your code every two years. Imagine a world where no software was more than two years old; after a while there would be no new code written as we'd all be rewriting everything that's ever been written again and again and again.

          In the Real World there is code out there, lots of code out there which was written in VB6 and earlier. And it all needs supporting by developers. And they're not asking for the language to be updated they're just asking for the language not to be broken by a mere browser.

          So, if C++ is out of date and should be replaced, then I would love to know what you think we should do with C.

          No trolling here at all, I'm just looking at what's out there.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: How long this lesson will be remembered?

            " And they're not asking for the language to be updated they're just asking for the language not to be broken by a mere browser."

            Which is another lesson in itself: don't rely on a wholly mess of interwinded components without a clean separation of duties. When a web browser is so deeply into the OS (even when it really is not but your dev tools live like it is) you are asking for trouble. Instead, use tools that do one thing and do it well. Unix anyone?

  20. John Munyard

    Arrogance will get them nowhere

    You would have thought with 30% of the world's PC's still on XP, and with IE continually losing market share, that Microsoft would have looked at new ways to keep thier client base content.

    But instead all we get is more arrogance, more enforced attempts to get people to upgrade thier OS. People really won't bother - they'll just switch to apps like Firefox is even greater numbers.

    Redmond still hasn't learned about Customer Service has it...

  21. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Fix the installer first

    My perfectly legal Windows 7 VM is stuck on IE 9 because Microsoft wants to install some kind of spyware to let me use IE 10 or IE 11.

    Fuckers still need to learn to separate the browser from the OS until they manage that properly they'll be liable.

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Fix the installer first

      "My perfectly legal Windows 7 VM is stuck on IE 9 because Microsoft wants to install some kind of spyware to let me use IE 10 or IE 11."

      Get over it, dude. If you use a computer with a non open source OS, you handed over the keys to the kingdom on the day you installed the OS. Since we're talking Windows, MS could have built in spyware in the original release, or they could have slipped some in as a security fix under Windows Update (if you've applied *any* updates since installation, which I hope you have). Whatever *named* package you are worrying about, if it is from Microsoft then it doesn't increase your risk of being spied on, even if it says "Microsoft Shafter for Windows" on the tin.

    2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: @Charlie Clark

      As already pointed out, any closed OS can and most probable will spy on you. Open ones may do as well (looking at you Canonical with your Amazon search...)

      Why do you want to use a Windows VM on the internet at all if you are so concerned? Most of my XP VMs are there to run only stuff locally that is not supported now and they just don't get external networking as I can transfer files in/out with mapped drives, etc.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I think that they should go one step further, give up support for all versions of Internet Explorer and kill off the beast.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Avoid IE altogether

    I carry around a USB stick with Chrome 500kb-ish installer.

    Just in case.

    Or, an old portable Chrome. To download and install a non-portable Chrome.

    Or even I use my cellphone to download it and use it as a pendrive. I resort to IE only when my smartphone and usb sticks are unavailable.

  24. Greg J Preece

    IE isn't a bad browser any more. It hasn't been in a long time. That comment about web devs hating IE9 in the article - I sure as shit didn't. It wasn't exactly bleeding edge but it was far superior to all of its predecessors. IE in Win8.1 is a perfectly fast, stable browser, burdened with the reputation of some versions ago.

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      IE10/11 seem to be quite acceptable, though lacking in the range of useful plugins you get for FF & Chrome.

      But why can't MS make IE11 for all supported versions of Windows? Chrome, Firefox, Opera, etc all seem to manage that trick with a fraction of MS' budget.

      Yes, I know that was a rhetorical question as MS are run by marketing droids who still believe they can dictate how the PC industry will go...

  25. Frank Oz

    Oh what a tangled Web we weave ...

    when first we attempt to dominate the browser market, and incorporate all our closed technologies into the browser, and integrate ActiveX/COM ... the world's most insecure single user API's, and ...

    Well, you get the idea ...

  26. Mage Silver badge

    If its to sway XP users?

    XP users need Firefox and Noscript anyway. as well as a firewall, so no direct 3G dongle, Only use mobile dongle with a WiFi point or ethernet router that has a firewall.

    I hope future IE

    a) By default has Active X disabled, and if enabled only works on private IP ranges.

    b) is standards compliant

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I really struggle to find sympathy for you guys complaining about having to maintain software that works on IE8 or IE9. The product I'm forced to work on most of the time has to maintain compatibility with IE6 due to the fact an important customer still runs Win XP original release (FSM knows why they won't apply service packs). The sales guys would actually like me to try and maintain support for IE5 but I told them what they could do with that particular thought. I have to admit though lately I've been accidentally breaking things and claiming it's just not possible on IE6, I think the message is finally getting through.

  28. MatsSvensson

    Easy fix.

    A forcing EU-directive that prohibits Microsoft from blocking the newest IE on older Windows.

    That, plus silent update set to on by default in IE..

    And don't say its too hard, or impossible.

    The latest Firefox works just fine at least as far back as Win XP.

    And they don't have a tiny fraction of the resources of MS to make that work.

    Alternatively force MS to deactivate older IE completely, or to present a "browser-choice" download-page only.

    If they cant/wont put IE on that page, tough shit!

    Having one single company flooding the web with obsolete, bug-ridden, insecure browsers, is clearly not acceptable.

  29. Syntax Error

    They should just put IE completely under the bus.

  30. Phil_Evans

    No, THIS is terrible...

    In what has no doubt 'percolated' down from Redmond/Soho in the coffee froth, I had to quote the following from a MSFT TAM in our organisation regarding the sad demise of the above said:

    "Microsoft has a history of helping people get stuff done, and have focused our efforts on delivering digital work and life experiences that are reinvented for the mobile-first and cloud-first world, empowering every person and every organization on the planet to do more and achieve more."

    I mean W...T...F ? If there were a place in the space-time continuum that were further from the truth about Max Clifford, this surely has to be it??? My anxious media-studies intern couldn't master this on Charlie, so how do they get to this through the nightmare that is MSFT in Web 2.0?

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "the better part of 20 years"

    Firefox: 2003

    Safari: 2003

    Chrome: 2008

    IE8: 2009 (first attempt at Firefox compliance)

    2014 -2003 = 11

    => Microsoft, having spent the best part of the last decade releasing browsers that rendered sites differently than rivals like Firefox, Chrome, and Safari.

    2009-2003 = 6

    => Microsoft was a late convert to the "web-standards" religion, not realeasing IE8 until 6 years after new rivals FF and Safari started taking market share with superior user interfaces

    Standards are a comercial weapon. History is re-written by the winners.

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