If it aint broken
Don't you just love proverbs.
Apple fanbois have erupted in rage after an update bricked their Macbook Airs. On the official Apple support forum, dozens of angry customers claimed that the latest software update for the 2011 Macbook Air had gone horribly wrong. Some posters said their Airs had been totally borked by the update, while others reported …
One of the few things Apple do is let you replace hardware if its there fuck-up! Few years back I had a MAC Book Pro that was out of warranty & due to a known fault with that model they replaced it, even tho it was well over 6 months past the 1 year warranty. Only thing I will say was the issue did not manifest until I upgraded from 10.6 to 10.8 if memory serves me right.
Thinking about it HP/Compaq have also done the same thing before for me. Replaced hardware even tho it was out of warranty but it was a known fault.
"Antennaegate ring any bells ?"
Well, with the benefit of hindsight, antennagate was a little silly.
I bought one of the first iPhone 4s and was furious about antennagate at the time. Got the free bumper case but decided it was too inconvenient to use after a few weeks since I had to take it off to use the phone with almost any iPhone accessory.
Then I proceeded to use the phone with no case for 3+ years straight in all sorts of different situations and locations (and countries), and it worked pretty darn great. If I was ever actually affected by the antenna problem, I never realized it. I think ultimately Steve Jobs was proven right when he gave his presentation about how there were actually fewer dropped calls etc. with the iPhone 4 vs. other phones.
even tho it was well over 6 months past the 1 year warranty
As you are a member of the peerage I must assume you live in the UK in which case the statutory warranty is 2 years (the influence of those evil Europeans, dreadful isn't it) so they had to replace it.
For design faults there is no limit to the age where the responsibility lies although some common sense is employed here.
Strangely few US based suppliers make it obvious that there is a statutory 2 year warranty, tacitly encouraging consumers to believe in the US style 1 year warranty.
Not sure you're right with the 2 year warranty thing - as I understand it that's an EU thing that is trumped by our much better 6 years window in which to claim if you can price the fault was inherent at the time of sale. For the first six months thereof, the retailer has the burden of proving the problem wasn't inherent, thereafter you may need an expert witness report. Remedy is the refund/repair/replacement of goods at the retailers discretion and must be 'reasonable' (fixed in short time for a repair, but conversely may mean a partial refund to reflect period of fault-free use based on expected lifetime, which in turn may be a factor of cost).
Manufacturers may also offer warranties, but these are entirely at their own discretion and may include clauses not applicable to your statutory rights.
There is certainly no automatic European 2 year warranty for all goods.
"There is certainly no automatic European 2 year warranty for all goods."
Yeah actually there is and in the UK you can choose whether to pursue a fault through the Sale of Goods Act or EU Directive 1999/44/EC (which is the automatic 2 year warranty) whichever you think will get you the best result.
http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=SN02239 page 4 point 2
Not quite the same as a 2 year warranty, and the SoGA doors indeed trump the 2 year directive, which is a directive that it should be implemented in each country's local laws.
Yes, the exceptions are a few, for examples batteries (where its based on the amount of usage over two years) and disposable items. The latter is interesting as a well known manufacturer of chip machines seemed to think that a plastic and metal filter counted as a disposable item (like a vacuum cleaner filter)
However the plaintiff contacted the EU who ruled in this case said filter did not count as a disposable, so the manufacturer when presented with the ruling, caved in.
Also contacting the EU is easier than the new fangled way of contacting the Trading standards, i.e. via the CAB. Out sourcing gone mad.
I've had worst with HP/Compaq. Bought a brand new Presario 930 lappy, six months into the issue and the backlight goes fizz. Crappaq's response? "Oh, the model has been discontinued, buy a new one". I told them to fuck off. And I never recommended crappaq or HP laptops ever again.
I've also had the same crap treatment from Dell- laptop fails due to known defect after upgrading to Windows 7. Coincidently one month after the warranty expires. Dell support's response was "oh, the recall only applies to the US of A. Asian countries are exempt from the recall. You need to buy an extended warranty, since the three years on that unit is also up" (it was an XPS M1210 which was notorious for having a GeForce video chip that burns out due to overheating). I never recommended Dell again either.
I had a similar experience with Dell, 2 years 4 days ( extended 2 year warranty ) screen went black GeForce card died though overheating. Incidentally, they brought out a bios update that made the fan work harder.
What I didn't realise was in the USA this was a known problem and some people had the card replaced out of Dell even if it was out of warranty.
Anyway Dell said tough luck to me so I bought a new model of the XPS. This time it was the software, it never liked the hardware. Reboot, reboot, reboot... Even worse, it just didn't like 3rd party software.
After 9 month I went and bought into Apple. Not only can Do I have OSX, but I can run windows with parallels. Best of both worlds.
I don't know where you are in the world, but you have laws that protect you once your warranty is expired from the OEM. For example, buying something like AppleCare is pointless, you're covered for a minimum of 2 years with a max of 6 in the UK (exclusions apply to the fault, but they do under bought warranties anyway). Plus if there's a known fault and a product is recalled, they're required to replace it.
Yeah, but seeing as he replaced Anna Leach, there is every chance his replacement will be equally asinine. Just think of it as The Reg doing their bit for Corporate Responsibility by providing employment and training for the disadvantaged.
By the way, 'bricked' means that a piece of electronic hardware is 'fucked' (a technical term) beyond the ability to fix it with software- the symptoms in the article suggest this issue can be fixed.
I've dealt with a couple of these and it appears that it not only borks the system but kills the SSD as well.
The logic board (in apples parlance) recovers after the battery is disconnected and then reconnected but the SSD is then often undetectable. Putting in a new SSD appears to rectify the problem until the firmware update is applied again, where the same thing happens.
The two repairs that my company has dealt with required both the logic board and the SSD to be replaced before the firmware would be accepted. Fortunately the two repairs were covered by AppleCare. I would hate to think that people are paying for these repairs as a replacement logic board and SSD is more than the cost of a new MacBook Air.
You do realise that this may simply be evidence supporting the old proverb about fools and their money being easily parted; or alternatively that there are always those who have more money than sense, etc.?
OTOH, it could just be great kit, and even after eight years they got good value for their money. I wouldn't know.
"I sold an 8 year old dual G5 for $450 last year. Try that with ANY pc. I also sold a two year old MacMini for 85% of purchase price. Again, try that with any PC"
I'm still using my 7 year old PC and it still mostly plays modern games OK. So the question is, did you spend more than £800 on your G5? (I'll be nice and let you subtract the $450 you got back).
I sold an 8 year old dual G5 for $450 last year. Try that with ANY pc. I also sold a two year old MacMini for 85% of purchase price. Again, try that with any PC.
If anything, that just shows that Apple users will always pay over the odds for average and/or old tech because it has their favourite logo on it.
Is this supposed to show Apple users in a good light?
Actually. the dual G5s are still pretty decent machines for non-crunch video editing, image fiddling, audio production and SOHO server duties - and people will pay for working ones for spares for their own machine as parts are getting harder to find (which is part of the reason G5 prices seem strangely high for old tech)
And pretty much anything (bar airs) from 2009 to 2012 is fairly upgradable with limited tools - so a second hand i5 Macbook Pro 2011 bought for £500 (they are out there - check eBay) with a current SSD and 8gb RAM slapped in it would make an extremely portable workstation and would likely be good for another 5+ years of hard work. Try saying that for any £500 windows laptop you can buy at the moment....
My own late 2008 Macbook with 8gb of RAM, 2.0ghz C2D and SSD 830 in it is still extremely usable for VMs, photo editing, etc - to the degree that I don't see me having to replace it till it literally goes up in smoke, which it shows no sign of doing.
There's often more to it than just the price when it comes to older Mac gear.
(and as I feel I have to point out when posting these things, I'm a fairly recent Apple user, but far from exclusive to it - the Macbook is my 'roving engineer' workhorse and is the only piece of Apple gear I own other than a ropey old iPod classic I made from two broken ones that lives in my car glovebox to feed my head unit. At home I run an A8-3870/16gb/SSD830/R9 280/Ubuntu workstation, a Nexus 4 for phoney stuff, and I fix Windows systems and networks for a living - and I've been doing that for fifteen years, so I'm far from biased. Or rich...)
That said, bricking systems with a firmware update? Oopsy Apple, oopsy indeed.
"And pretty much anything (bar airs) from 2009 to 2012 is fairly upgradable with limited tools - so a second hand i5 Macbook Pro 2011 bought for £500 (they are out there - check eBay) with a current SSD and 8gb RAM slapped in it would make an extremely portable workstation and would likely be good for another 5+ years of hard work. Try saying that for any £500 windows laptop you can buy at the moment...."
So you're comparing a used £1,500 computer, upgraded, with a new £500 computer. That's like me saying "Well, your new Ford Focus isn't as good as my 7 year old Mercedes s Class". It's a stupid comparison.
Except it's not a £1500 computer - it was three years ago.
Now it's a £500 laptop with £200 or so of bits thrown at it - that a new £500 laptop would also need to be comparable, and still wouldn't be objectively better when you consider build quality and overall design.
People are suggesting that used Apple gear is overpriced. It demonstrably is not when you look at the bigger picture of build quality, upgradability, resale value, performance, etc.
PS: Comparing a car that gets 45mpg with a car that will likely never get more than 30mpg and usually gets worse, eats tyres, bushes and brakes due to weighing 75% more - now that was stupid. No-one considers getting a large, powerful, heavy car over a normal hatch without looking at...that's right, the bigger picture.
PPS: Am I turning into a fanboi or something? *breaks out the garlic and crucifixes, hangs off edges of monitor just in case*
PPPS: FWIW I'd be far happier if those 2011 MBPs were £250, believe me....!
No, it was a £1500 computer. That you've spent ANOTHER £200+ on it doesn't make it a £500 machine.
Look, I've got a desktop PC which is my day-to-day PC which I built in January 2008. It'll be 7 years old in January. At the time it cost about £1,300 to built. Since then it's had a SSD, a RAM upgrade, a copy of Win7 to replace XP, a new 1TB Hybrid drive to replace the secondary drive and a new graphics card and I can play Skyrim on max settings quite comfortably.
To get similar performance from a modern desktop PC you'd need to spend about £600 to get the 8GB RAM and the Core i5 processor which pretty much matches the Q9300 I have in my old PC.
That does NOT make my desktop machine a £600 machine. It makes my desktop a very old computer that I spent an awful lot of money on which now performs about the same as an off-the-shelf £600 computer. I keep upgrading it because I like to tinker, even though it has always been a bit of a primadonna computer and I daren't switch it off too often in case it doesn't come back on. I accept all these things.
Yes, you are turning in to a fanboi, because you're attempting to claim that the Apple computer you bought is a bargain. It is good. It is well built. It is fast. Be happy with that. It is not cheap, or a bargain, or comparable in any way to a £500 PC. Stop trying to make it something it isn't and enjoy it for what it is.
I'm confused. If I buy a £500 MacBook, throw £200 of shiny at it, it's a £700 machine. It's original purchase price, to me, is irrelevant.
Is my ratty old car outside a £15000 small coupe? It was once, to someone. To me it's a £600 fun shed.
I think we're approaching this from two opposite directions when congress assigning value and worth items. I'm interested in it's actual cost to me. You seen to be concentrating on it's total cost from new. Which is irrelevant to me.
Either that or it's 2 am and things have speed making sense and I should re read all this in the morning... ;-)
PS: As per regulations, I have brushed my teeth with salt to wash out the inner fanboy that apparently rearing it's ugly head....can I blame that I it being late, too? ;-)
Huh? I don't even get the point about adding memory and an SSD. I've done that to 3 year old windows laptops that didn't cost as much *new* as your second hand price, and it gave them a very nice performance kicker and they still run great and probably will for years more. So, yeah, I can say that about a windows laptop you can buy at the moment, or several years ago.
So long as you have something new enough to support a 64 bit OS and a SATA interface for the drive then upping the memory over 4GB and adding an SSD will always do nice things, especially the SSD. Systems old enough to use IDE aren't good candidates due to lack of IDE SSDs with modern capacity, performance, and price, and 32bit systems can't really even use a full 4GB of RAM. So there is a pretty obvious cut-off if you have something old enough that the technology isn't suitable for upgrades.
Actually, the Dual G5s would be fine for video editing. You just need to drop the penguin and Cinelerra or KDenLive onto it.
PowerPCs have a higher MIPS count than x86 chips. And the G5 chips are also 64-bit. Filled with enough RAM it would be a force to reckon with. Sure, you can't play most PC games, but well, PowerPC CPUs live for media work, not games.
In November last year you wrote this:
"Most Apple products have amazing re-sale value. I sold a two year old MacMini for 80% of the purchase price last spring, and an EIGHT year old dual G4 for £300 a year ago."
So is it a G4 or a G5? Is is £300 or $450? Was it 80% or 85%?
In August last year you wrote this:
"No one ever considers resale value of Macs, which makes them actually CHEAPER than PCs, overall. I just sold an 8 year old dual G5 for $500, and sold a two year old MacMini last March for 80% of purchase price."
So it was a G5 but you sold it for $500? Not $450? Or £300?
In January last year you wrote this:
"I sold an 8 year old Mac on eBay for $550, half the cost of a new MacMini."
$550 now? Not $500 or $450 or £300?
Eight days before that you wrote this - "No on ever considers "resale value" of Apple kit. I just sold an 8 year old PowerPC Mac for $400... Not bad!"
So $400 now.
Seems to get through an awful lot of Apple kit, doesn't he?
One would almost think there's something wrong with it.
At best the mantra seems to be:
"Other people share my delusions and are prepared to overspend on them
in the same way I have. Nah Nah Ne Nah Nah!"
Jimbo, if you're referring to me, £600 initially three years ago, and threw a £150 SSD at it (I had some RAM kicking around).
A windows PC could probably be got of the same spec and upgraded for less, but when the wheel spider fell off my passenger seat and landed straight on top of the laptop during a brake test (had changed a wheel, wanted to make sure it was on ;-) ) I'm pretty sure 80% of Windows laptops would have had a broken LCD panel.
Macbook? A tiny dent barely a millimeter in depth.
As I say, that somewhat OTT build quality has it's uses to me.
If I move to a purely office job, with no need to be blatting about in my car with the laptop sitting in the passenger footwell - my opinion may change ;-)
Anyway, apparently I'm a fanboi now, so I'm off to lick an iMac x
Steven "The Worlds Poorest Fanboi" R.
Oh come off it, you sound like a 2 year old. "But mommy saaaaaaiiiiiiid..."
Any adult will understand that Apple is not immune to every single problem that might affect computers in general. Hardware defects, programming errors, etc.
In my experience, there are actually a lot of cases where I've found Macs to "just work" and PCs to, well, not. Sometimes embarrassing cases like Macs being able to read NTFS drives when Windows PCs couldn't. And that's Microsoft's own file system.
"Ah, yeah, the HFS+ licencing issue. Not really MS's fault if apple won't licence it like they licenced NTFS."
No idea what you're talking about. HFS+ is an Apple thing. I'm saying I've seen NTFS drives that have been corrupted by Windows such that they can't be read by Windows anymore, but Macs can still read them just fine. I recently had to recover files from such a drive using my Mac, for a friend.
To be fair, Apple probably didn't write their own NTFS file system code, I assume they use some open source code, but that doesn't make it bad.
>there was no way of replacing it ...
The original iPod was £500 and only worked with Macs. The early iPod batteries could be replaced from any branch of Maplins, back in the day.
(Luckily for me, the iRiver H320 used the same battery, after the connector polarity was reversed)
"My son is on an internship in a somewhat remote place in Alaska (read: no Apple genius to bring it to), with his Macbook Air," he said. "He sent me a text informing me that his perfectly working MBA won't power on at all after applying a firmware update this morning. It's dead, killed by Apple, and it is out of warranty."
So, to sum up, you took a perfectly good working computer that you use for line-of-business work, and, for no apparent reason (other than it seemed like a Really Good Idea™, or perhaps because That's What Fanbois Do®), horked it up. Nice!
(The First Rule of Computer Science, for those that haven't heard, should still be familiar: If it works, don't fix it.)
@ Someone Else
Are these updates automatically applied as part of the general routine update thingy I used to click on in the days of Tiger?
Or are they clearly marked as *firmware* updates (which I take to be an analogue of a bios update) which is a whole order of other?
If former, I have *some* sympathy.
Firmware updates are clearly marked as such in the update software, but if you just blindly click on "update all" then you do get firmware updates too IIRC.
Apple has issued maybe half a dozen firmware updates for my 2010 MacBook Air and I've installed them without thinking twice. I will probably continue to do the same. Might as well have whatever fixes they've come up with.
If a firmware update bricks my computer I'm sure they will take care of me, the same way they recently took care of all the MBA owners who had faulty SSDs that all went bad over the past ~6 months.
There is an implicit problem here of course. You are expecting rube Apple users to behave like seasoned IT professionals. The whole point of them buying an Apple product was specifically to avoid needing to know what they were doing. They're even worse than Windows users in this respect.
Apple needs to manage this stuff while being mindful of their audience. If they cater to idiots then they need to make things even more idiot proof. That's the burden they take on for their approach to system design.
Apple needs to manage this stuff while being mindful of their audience. If they cater to idiots then they need to make things even more idiot proof.
To which one must apply the Ninth Rule of Computer Science: You can make something foolproof, but you can't make it damfool-proof.
"If a firmware update bricks my computer I'm sure they will take care of me,"
That is no good if it wipes your data, and most people neglect to backup.
I don't install updates, most of the time, not unless I am 100% sure I have fully backup up data.
Anyone who doesn't back up shouldn't be surprised if they lose information.
I spent years having to be sympathetic to people with no proper backup, even rescuing their data on many occasions.
Now I just shrug and tell them it was their own fault for not having a backup.
All had been trying to install version 2.9 of an EFI firmware update, which was supposed to fix a problem which causes the computer to take an eternity to wake from sleep and then run the fans at full speed.
I've owned a couple of iBooks and a couple of MacBook Pros and not one of them HASN'T taken an eternity to wake from sleep. I tell my friends that's how you know it is a genuine Apple product, because it takes at least a minute to work out where it is after waking up and then you have to disable / enable wireless to get a connection again.
Macbook Pros / Airs / 10.9 / 10.8 / 10.7 as far back as I can remember they've always been a steaming pile in that respect. Thankfully their other advantages make it just about worth putting up with
You probably usually run some piece of software that does something on sleep or wake that makes it take forever. The operating system shouldn't allow this but it does, somehow. Anyway I have also seen other peoples' MacBooks take forever to wake, but mine is a 2010 MacBook Air and wakes in a second or two.
I would quit all your software and see if it still takes forever to wake up. Then run your programs one by one to find the offending one.
He's a lying cunt too!! http://forums.theregister.co.uk/user/1073/
Re: Regardless of the facts...
My two year old iPad 3 (WiFi only, in superb condition), which I bought USED for £300, is priced at about £250 give or take a bit on eBay UK. Amazing.
Most Apple products have amazing re-sale value. I sold a two year old MacMini for 80% of the purchase price last spring, and an EIGHT year old dual G4 for £300 a year ago.
By contrast, I have a Dell PC with 20" monitor and 8GB RAM which sells for about £75 on eBay UK. Crappy really.
No one ever notes that the high price of Apple products is returned in large part when you are done.
Note: I use PCs (Windows 7 only now), Macs, iPads, iPhones, and (currently) six different Android devices every day (custom Apps), so this is not bull. I like Windows 7 (5 out of 10 rating), but OSX more (7 out of 10 now with Mavericks). I like Android (6 out of 10), but iOS more (8 out of 10).
The consistency of Apple products for App development is 3x - 4x less frustration than trying to anticipate the 100 forks of Android, not to mention the 100 screen sizes etc. And profit from Apple products is 5-10x better than with Android.
+1 from an app developer
BTW I attribute a lot of the resale value of Apple products less to reality-distortion-field brand-label-worship fanboyism and more to their limited number of product lines and models, so they're easy to become familiar with and search for.
If I want a machine like e.g. a 2011 Mac Mini, I can search Craigslist or eBay and find one in seconds. Lord only knows what Dell's product lines were called in 2011 or what their model numbers were, etc. Also I just searched for "dell inspiron" on a whim since that's one of their only product line names I can remember and apparently they use that name for desktops AND laptops... doesn't make buying used products very easy.
I just had a similar situation in France where the electrics went off. An electrician came and sat in the bedroom turning the light switch on and off 40 times until it worked, and then charged me €400 with a gallic shrug to suggest that it can only be fixed by an electrician doing this - mere foreigners doing this just do not understand the subtle play in switching on and off that many times.
This is supposed to be 2014 ... can't Apple/HP/Compaq/Dell etc get up to speed and make a computer with a blasted reset on it? You know, like routers have? Too hard maybe?
Then you wouldn't need to pay the big boxen builders more money to replace or repair.
Build your own then you can spec a motherboard with dual bios (yes, it's that old but by god it's a fantastic bastard and is AM3+ thanks to a bios update :D) and a cmos reset switch. Costs a few extra pounds but it reduces my need to worry about borked bios updates and psychotic memory dimms ruining my rig. No use for laptop users but they have been limited devices for a long time now.
Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019