back to article Tech talk bloke compares girlfriend to irritating Java tool – did he deserve flames?

A programmer was given a right shoeing on Twitter and various blogs for a classy move at a tech event – comparing Apache Maven to a beautiful-but-annoying girlfriend. Jonathan Doklovic, principal developer at software-maker Atlassian, made the comments while giving a thrilling talk about plugins at the AtlasCamp 2014 in Berlin …

COMMENTS

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  1. RISC OS

    He is giving a talk about mavern

    does he even have a girlfriend? He is a computer nerd giving a talk to other computer nerds, has he even popped his cherry? I wonder how many women would laugh if someone said that after the slide went viral... or would have made such a comment themselves... just as bad.

    It is stupid, and wasn't that funny, and yeah.... I have trouble believing he has a girlfriend... but it was a joke, a bad one, but still a joke... keep the reaction in proportion!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

      Well since he's giving a talk, he's most likely at least moderately successful and self secure.

      Meaning there's a good chance he does have a girlfriend.

      Heck, I'm a shy computer nerd and have an attractive wife and two kids myself.

      1. RISC OS

        Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

        > Heck, I'm a shy computer nerd and have an attractive wife and two kids myself.

        me too ;)

        My joke about me finding it hard to believe was tongue-in-cheek... I'm sure he does have a GF/BF. I respect anyone that can get up on a stage and talk in front of a load of people... I hate doing that, I know it takes a certain kind of person to be able to do that, and that is not me.

      2. msknight Silver badge

        Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

        "Heck, I'm a shy computer nerd and have an attractive wife and two kids myself."

        Way to go, AC. How about, "a wife I love," or some other quality of your relationship together rather than the fact that your wife is attractive?

        That's what really get people like me angry (actually, I don't feel anger, just despair) that blokes still think of women as trophies; rather than partners who they love dearly and are proud of them for who they are.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. msknight Silver badge

            Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

            And thank you both for confirming that men think that attractiveness is a good reasons for getting married, above love, affection, dedication, devotion, etc., etc. ... it is YOUR problem, and it is sad that women are having to suffer the results of this crap.

            And don't bring fifty shades in to it; that is a pile of ficticious rubbish. The BDSM scene in general has slated that work as being completley un-representative codswallop.

            You've been caught, red handed, and of course I'm going to get a thumbs-down battering.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: He is giving a talk about mavern @msknight

              Because women never judge anyone else (male or female) by their appearance. They also do not judge people on their clothes, hair, make up, etc.

              I don't know what planet you are on, but it must be very lonely. Or hypocritical. Probably not both though.

              1. msknight Silver badge

                Re: He is giving a talk about mavern @msknight

                @AC - we're talking about our spouses here. Nice try to shift the focus, but sorry, that ain't working. You aren't going to devalue the discusison that way.

            2. RISC OS
              Joke

              Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

              It's the register.... the more mark downs you get the more right you were ;)

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

              "thumbs-down battering"

              yeah, why not, since you ask so nicely and in this day and age being nice costs but a click, there you go!

            4. Down not across Silver badge

              Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

              And thank you both for confirming that men think that attractiveness is a good reasons for getting married, above love, affection, dedication, devotion, etc., etc. ... it is YOUR problem, and it is sad that women are having to suffer the results of this crap.

              Erm, where did either one say anything about attractiveness being good (or any for that matter) reason for getting married over anything?

            5. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

              I know you are, but what am I? Nyer nyer ne nyeerrr nyerrrr!

              I'm rubber, you're glue. Bounces off me and sticks to you. Nyerrrrr!

            6. boltar Silver badge

              Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

              "And thank you both for confirming that men think that attractiveness is a good reasons for getting married, above love, affection, dedication, devotion, etc., etc. "

              Anyone who thinks looks don't come into the equation is either extremely naive or feck ugly and hoping its not true.

              "nd it is sad that women are having to suffer the results of this crap."

              And who made you spokesmen for all women? Just because you pretend to be one (yeah , I've googled you) doesn't make you one. We can all play lets-pretend , doesn't change reality. So how about you STFU and let the real women defend themselves, not some piss poor fascimile.

            7. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

              Er... if you're not attracted to your partner in some meaningful ways (eg mentally, physically, emotionally, whatever), then you're flat out doing it wrong.

              Also, it sounds like you have a pretty limited understanding of what "attractive" means. :(

            8. TopOnePercent Silver badge

              Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

              And thank you both for confirming that men think that attractiveness is a good reasons for getting married, above love, affection, dedication, devotion, etc., etc. ... it is YOUR problem, and it is sad that women are having to suffer the results of this crap.

              Hang fire.... If I had a face like Brad Pitt rather than a well slapped arse, I'd have enjoyed even more success with women in my younger days. That's just a fact. Beauty is an attractive trait and it appeals to women every bit as much as men.

              Were I hung like a horse rather than a macaque, I'd possibly have enjoyed still more feminine attentions. But you get what you get and you look how you look. If its good, great, if its unfortunate then its just a challenge to be overcome.

              That said, I love my (hot) wife for all the reasons you give and many more besides. I didn't marry her because of her looks (lets face it, when people get old they stop looking pretty) but I see nothing wrong in recognising that I'm very happy with her physical appearance. Why is it ok to prize loyalty or sense of humour but suddenly somehow wrong to appreciate aesthetics?

        2. roselan
          Trollface

          Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

          "blokes still think of women as trophies; rather than partners who they love dearly and are proud of them for who they are."

          Does that mean you favor men who want several women as partners?

          Moreover, you express what *you* want in men, and assume that most "blokes still think of women of trophies". This is so degrading for men!

          No, I'm not nagging. Or maybe just a bit ;)

        3. JEDIDIAH
          Linux

          Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

          Then get ready to really start foaming at the mouth.

          Not only is my wife hot, she's also smarter than you and makes more money than you do.

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. James Hughes 1

          Re: He is giving a talk about mavern @msknight

          Sorry, I think YOU are the problem here.

          The statement was that he has an attractive wife and two children. Nothing more nothing less. If you read anything else in to that then you are trying way too hard to be PC, and need to lighten up a bit. I find nothing wrong with his statement - it doesn't objectify, it compliments.

          I'm in a similar position, with an attractive partner and three children. And since you seem so keen on it, I love them all dearly. But did you really need to know that? No, because I regard it as implicit.

      4. Ted Treen
        Happy

        @AC 4 Hrs ago (Re: He is giving a talk about maven)

        "I'm a shy computer nerd and have an attractive wife and two kids myself."

        Two kids?

        Not all that shy, then.

        1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: @AC 4 Hrs ago (He is giving a talk about maven)

          " Two kids?

          Not all that shy, then."

          Twins maybe?

    2. oddie

      Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

      "He is a computer nerd giving a talk to other computer nerds, has he even popped his cherry? I wonder how many women would laugh if someone said that after the slide went viral.. " -probably none, its not really a very good joke...

      "or would have made such a comment themselves... just as bad." - again probably none.. talking about computer geeks sexual provess or the stereotypical lack thereof if usually the domain of non-tech guys.

      "It is stupid, and wasn't that funny, and yeah.... I have trouble believing he has a girlfriend... but it was a joke, a bad one, but still a joke... keep the reaction in proportion!" - you list negative stereotypes, then lament the people that would laugh at such negative stereotypes.. then go on to assert those very same negative stereotypes yourself?

      your post confuses me :S

      1. RISC OS

        Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

        Try rereading it... I can't help it if you can't understand what I was saying. The first points I made were to make a point, the latter ones were my own views... nothing confusing there

        1. oddie

          Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

          I did read it several times before I posted, to try to understand what you were saying.. even after reading it again now it still seems to be

          1. this was not a good joke as it plays on certain stereotypes, which is bad

          2. if hypothetical women laugh at him because he is a virgin because he works with computers (stereotype), then that is just as bad as the joke he told

          3. your own view is that the joke is bad because it is full of stereotypes, and that he doesn't have a gf because he works with computers.

          to be honest not all my posts make sense all the time either, sometimes stuff I say or type doesn't come out the way I meant it to; your post just seems contradictory... maybe you meant it to come out differently?

          edit: just read your third post.... I think maybe the issue here might be that sarcasm doesn't translate well into ASCII...

      2. dv

        Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

        Really? You just said that negative stereotypes make bad jokes? Do you realize that the overwhelming majority of jokes are based on stereotypes?

    3. LarsG

      He definitely has a girlfriend because his analogy is spot on.

      1. Peter Simpson 1
        Happy

        He definitely hashad a girlfriend because his analogy is spot on.

        FTFY

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: He is giving a talk @RISC OS

      Don't be so defensive, stand by your comments, be a man.

      So you are never going to be a comedian, but hey it's not the end of the world.

    5. NogginTheNog
      FAIL

      Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

      Isn't this assumption "he's a nerd, and probably a virgin" just as bad stereotypically as the (joke?) prejudices displayed by the original presentation?!

      Personally I think it was a bit of a lame attempt to present a humorous take on some software, but to avoid this sort of broohaha in future maybe EVERYONE, male female, and anything else you wish to declare yourself as, should try to step away from generalisations and stereotypes a bit more? Tricky to do though since categorisation and attendant assumptions are an inherent part of how we experience and manage the world.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      @Risc OS

      "does he even have a girlfriend? He is a computer nerd giving a talk to other computer nerds, has he even popped his cherry?"

      I think the real question is if he still has a girlfriend after all this ;)

    7. Jim 59

      Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

      Utterly ludicrous story. It was a harmless joke but that isn't the point. These Twitter busy-bodies choose to be offended in order to undermine the free speech of others. The only thing they care about is censoring anybody who expresses an opinion not on their recommended list. They must be all told to foxtrot-oscar, loudly, regularly, until they understand that we have freedom of expression, bought at very great expense by the last generation and to be passed intact onto the next.

      "We are going through all the events that allowed this slide to reach the public"

      translation: "oh no! sorry! we will censor these opinions as quickly as possible!"

      Says TarahWheelerVanVlack:

      Don't apologize b/c I'm offended. Apologize because you were wrong.

      No. Don't apologize at all. Instead tell the self-appointed censors how repugnant you find their attempt to muzzle free speech, on today of all days.

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

      He's definitely talking about my boyfriend .. Except I would use the word 'handsome', not beautiful

      Damn. Have I just confused the stereotypes?.

      1. Blank Reg

        Re: He is giving a talk about mavern

        This is why I don't understand all the commotion about this. As you've pointed out, other than swapping handsome for beautiful the statements are not gender specific. Had it been a woman presenting this slide comparing Maven to her boyfriend would anyone have cared? I doubt it.

        Much ado about nothing, yet again

  2. jake Silver badge

    Bad poll questions.

    There is no answer but "mu", as polled. Consider:

    "On a slide titled "Marco is my boyfriend", she presented a number of bullet points that compared the Java build tool to a lover. Here's her reasoning:

    Looks handsome

    Complains a lot

    Demands my attention

    Interrupts me when I'm working

    Doesn't play well with my other friends"

    Mountains, molehills, so-called "social" networking. Do the math.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. MrXavia

      Re: Bad poll questions.

      Yup, mountain out of molehill...

      My first thought was, what if that was a women doing it about her boyfriend, I bet there would be no reaction.....

      How many comedians do you see make jokes about their other halves? loads...

      This is no big deal unless your too sensitive...

      These tweets bring up images of man hating women with a chip on their shoulder...

      It is all political correctness gone mad....

      1. John Sanders
        Mushroom

        Re: Bad poll questions.

        """My first thought was, what if that was a women doing it about her boyfriend, I bet there would be no reaction....."""

        Of course there will be a reaction, they will laugh, something it is apparently forbidden the other way around.

        ""This is no big deal unless your too sensitive..."""

        Nope, it is a big deal if you're a stupid attention seeking @!$#?%!!!

        Remember Political Correctness is going to doom us all.

    3. Shane 4

      Re: Bad poll questions.

      You got it wrong,

      Second line should be "Farts a lot"

      Fourth line should be "Pervs on my other friends"

      There fixed it for ya. ;)

      Now if a woman said that on stage I would applaud her and get the joke!

    4. Wizbit
      FAIL

      Re: Bad poll questions.

      On Bad poll questions...

      Page 1:

      - It's not even a joke: it's offensive, to Maven

      (I assume that is what most of the current 120 votes are for)

      Page 2, missing options

      - His experience of girlfriends.

      - His experience of Maven.

      - It's a joke the comparison was facetious

      Seriously; atrocities in Egypt, Syria, Palestine, people so poor they give away their children and kill themselves in Greece; how many other hideous things on this planet and people exercise their outrage on this? Grow up.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hehe...

    Read the guy family name. He is literally doing search/replace with Mavern on an old Balkan running gag existing in all Balkan languages - I have heard it plenty of times in Bulgarian and Serbian.

    The really funny bit is that the industry there is way _LESS_ sexist than in US or UK. If you are having a conversation with a sysadmin or software developers you are 10 times more likely to have it with a woman compared to US/UK. Also, if you do a joke like that down there in front of one of these geek ladies they will pay back using similar humor with 100% interest instead of calling HR or leaking it to the Daily Mail.

    Alternatively, if you really cross the line, you will understand why any one of us who have worked with people from that part of the world thinks that Alice from Dilbert is Serbian (especially the fist of death bit).

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: Hehe... and Vivacious Viral IT Players .... Great Game Masters .... Mega Meta Data Blasters

      Yes, AC, the East [Erotic and Exotic and Erratic and Explosive] has a lot to teach the West [Wild and Wacky and Wicked and Wondrous] that it and its IT needs to learn and smarter enable and implement/run.

      Does the West not realise, that if they don't listen and engage with that which they need to be engaged with and listened to, does all the smarter capital which is not just QE confetti and ruinously sweet sticky pseudo confectionary, fly to the East where it can be used to better beta exploit to beneficial advantage the arrogance and ignorance on display westwards and in prime time, sub-prime action.

      Such aint rocket science, but only a natural progression and greater common sense migration from a stagnant petrified state to vibrant virile community.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hehe... and Vivacious Viral IT Players .... Great Game Masters .... Mega Meta Data Blasters

        what a cool and sensible comment. If it would not be so long I would print it on a t-shirt

    2. theModge

      Re: Hehe...

      Interesting the middle east seems to have plenty of female Dev's as well - being a male dominated industry does just seem to be a western thing.

  4. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    "Way to get down on women"

    The quintessence of the modern "liberal".

    0) Find a syntactically valid string involving women, differently abled persons and/or the minority du jour, if not something that has vaguely to do with not sufficiently socialistic economic systems.

    1) Generalize

    2) Find that generalization implies that this other person™ is not as holy, wholesome, generous, white-knighty and/or open-minded as oneself (of course!).

    3) TO THE SOAPBOXTWEET

    Bonus question:

    What would have happened if the guy were replaced by LA LESBIAN PROGRAMMEUSE?

  5. Goat Jam

    Anybody who gives a flying fuck what the collective festering cesspit that is the "twittersphere" thinks needs to re-evaluate their priorities.

    Basically, if you are not upsetting that mass of drooling luvvies and assorted grief-mongers then you are not trying hard enough.

    1. Anonymous Dutch Coward

      Well, Atlassian certainly couldn't bear it... Suckers.

  6. Mr C

    My wife liked it

    I tested it on my wife and read it out (after explaining some stuff about technology) and she laughed about it.

    Guess some still do have a sense of humor

    1. LarsG

      Re: My wife liked it @Mr C

      Your wife must be really easy to please!

      1. Anonymous Dutch Coward

        Re: My wife liked it @Mr C

        Nothing wrong with that.

        1. LarsG

          Re: My wife liked it @Mr C

          Yeah but I'm jealous!

      2. RISC OS
        Joke

        I can confirm from my adventures last week...

        ...that she is ;)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I can confirm from my adventures last week...

          which reminds me of a joke about a divorce hearing at a court, where the man wants to divorce his wife.

          Why do you want to divorce this fine woman? asks the good judge

          Because she doesn't please me, m'lord!

          (uproar and general indignation in the hall)

          This I find hard to believe, says the judge. How can she not please you, if she pleases everybody else in this room?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My wife liked it

      You want a bad taste Friday afternoon NSFW joke?

      My wife is nothing like Java, the wife never g**s d**n

  7. 9Rune5

    objects and stuff

    "It's comparing women to objects"

    Is it?

    I saw it the other way around. Many times I've felt various objects/technologies have taken on a life on their own, especially the more annoying ones. I have cursed at clippy, pulled my hair out after dealing with Visual Basic (the pre-.Net variant that was too popular for its own good) and banged my head against the wall after the n'th kernel panic. Every time I could have punched these things/objects in the face -- had they had one. I've also found myself a litle bit attached to some pieces. E.g. Android tries to guess what I am about to do. If I am at work, it will suggest the best route home and if I am abroad it will keep track of the timezone and tell me what time it is back home (+ local time). If it was just an inanimate object it would not do that. Obviously.

    As for women... The slide clearly states "girlfrend", not "woman". In my experience, although all women can be girlfriends, they tend to behave vastly different once they enter into that status. (as I am sure we guys tend to behave differently in the role as boyfriends -- the way I behave towards my wife as a husband is vastly different from how I am as a colleague)

    1. James Howat

      Re: objects and stuff

      Comparing women to objects is the same as comparing objects to women. Also:

      "Many times I've felt various objects/technologies have taken on a life on their own, especially the more annoying ones. (...) Every time I could have punched these things/objects in the face -- had they had one."

      When talk about comparing objects to women. Classy.

      1. Steven Raith

        Re: objects and stuff

        Wow, way to twist context in an attempt to make someone look like a cunt.

        Votes on your post suggest most can see right through it though.

      2. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

        Re: objects and stuff

        > Comparing women to objects is the same as comparing objects to women.

        It's an "is a" relationship which is not reflexive, so you're technically incorrect (the rest of your parallels are crap too, but lets stay focused here).

        "Maven is my Girlfriend" - comparing all instances of Maven with one individual (his girlfriend). Denigrates Maven in general and his girlfriend in particular. Fair on Maven, not met his girlfriend so can't comment.

        "Girlfriend(s) are my Maven" - comparing all girlfriends to one copy of Maven. Denigrates girlfriends in general (bad) and incorrectly fails to extrapolate annoyance that is his version of Maven to all versions of Maven.

        Did I mention I don't like Maven?

      3. Fibbles

        Re: objects and stuff

        "Comparing women to objects is the same as comparing objects to women."

        There's nothing inherently sexist about anthropomorphization. However, implying anthropomorphized objects can never be female is definitely sexist.

      4. Keep Refrigerated

        Re: objects and stuff

        In my CMDB all women are objects... and men.

      5. 9Rune5

        Re: objects and stuff

        "When talk about comparing objects to women. Classy."

        No, I said that in reference to various objects that have taken on a life on their own (antromorphication, or however that is spelled). I would never date a person that behaves like Visual Basic. Visual Basic, to me, would be a bearded fella that has just joined the taliban. I'm pretty certain I would never date him. I'm not so certain I would not slap him around a bit though (as I strongly hinted in my original comment).

        Giving objects a life of their own is maybe a bad habit, but since (in my case) it was brought on by reading all the Discworld novels, I don't really mind.

        That said, given that the original twitterers jumped to conclusions all over the place, I'm happy to see they are not alone. I just wish there was some sort of diploma or award we could bestow upon you guys.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: objects and stuff

      Technology so car comparison time. Most objects people own seem to be given girls names. My sister has named her car Cesillia, we named her GPS judy (because she sounded so much like a judy). When things go well you don't talk to your car, when you want to get up a hill, or avoid stalling you talk to them constantly.

      Personally see it as a joke myself, some people may not like it, but I think they're drawing connections where there aren't any. I've heard the exact same jokes made about boyfriends. And what about comedians? There are plenty of male comedians who make jokes about their wives (Lee Evans) and plenty of female comedians who make jokes about their boyfriends / husbands (Jo Brandt, that one from up north whose voice makes me want to rip off my ears, appears in a lot of celeb gameshow / quiz things) nobody accuses them of being misogynistic (except Jim Davidson but he kinda is) it seems like because of the area it comes from suddenly people make up their own agendas.

      Being a middle aged white male is great because you get the best of everythign apparently. But at the same time it sucks because while every gender,religion and ethnicity can make fun of you, you even say something which could be slightly offensive and you're strung up.

    3. Captain Hogwash Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: comparing women to objects

      In my experience the heterosexual ones usually get their partners to deal with the garbage collection so more like Java objects than C++ ones.

    4. Havin_it
      Joke

      Re: objects and stuff

      "Jackie Treehorn ... treats objects ... like women, man."

      /Dude

      1. wowfood

        Re: objects and stuff

        Java Guy: “OK guys. Any idea how to make women more interested in us?”

        C++: More exceptions?

        Python: New methods?

        ANSI-C: Stop treating them like objects?

  8. P. Lee
    Facepalm

    Irony Failure

    Looks beautiful

    Complains a lot

    Demands my attention

    Interrupts me when I'm working

    Doesn't play well with my other friends

    Ok, I can't comment on the "looks beautiful" for the twittertards, but that is the only gender-specific item on the list and its a compliment. As for the comments, were they complaining, attention-demanding, time-consuming and likely to be appreciated by his friends?

    Perhaps this really is his experience of a girlfriend or perhaps its an obvious caricature used to "break the ice" and is not actually about his girlfriend but is being used to portray some deeper truth about Maven.

    Helpful hint: Over-analyzing human speech when the speaker is using metaphors is going to lead you down the garden path and leave you up a creek without a paddle. You'll be missing the point til the cows come home.

    Helpful hint #2: Playing with your girlfriend's friends is usually considered bad form, except by the Spice Girls. So much for girl power.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Irony Failure

      "Looks beautiful" is not gender specific, a Man can be beautiful, I am offended by that generalisation and demand compensation!

      but to compare to my own lovely wife...

      Looks beautiful - Yep, I am a very lucky man...

      Complains a lot - Yep I make plenty of mistakes, so this is needed

      Demands my attention - Yep, no complaints here!

      Interrupts me when I'm working - Yep, its nice to have a break once in a while..

      Doesn't play well with my other friends - Who needs friends anyway!?

      1. John Sanders
        Holmes

        Re: Irony Failure

        @AC http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/containing/2208422

        """Interrupts me when I'm working - Yep, its nice to have a break once in a while.."""

        You're obviously not married.

      2. Shane 4

        Re: Irony Failure

        The last one is wrong, Sorry to say.

        Everyone needs a friend every now and then, All good and well married with partner being your best friend but even so, Both need a break from each other every once in a while. Keeps relationship happy!

        And for those alone then it applies even more so to keep you sane.

    2. Amorous Cowherder

      Re: Irony Failure

      Points 2 & 3 I saw as a compliment! She's not going put with a load of crap from some bloke and she's got the guts to speak for herself!

      TwatterSphere explodes in mock-rage, hardly a reason to stop the world spinning is it! So some bloke makes a bit of a twat of himself while doing his job. Get a sense of perspective, call him on it, tell him he was being a bit of a dickhead for berating women and let it go. Life's too short for wasting on some stuff, deal with it and move on.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

    Of course it's a joke. It's an old joke, at that. But the problem is not whether it's funny, it's whether it's appropriate in context.

    IT has a problem with fair treatment of women, we know this. Comments like this do not help.

    We all enjoyed "dead baby" jokes in school, right? Would you tell one on stage at a midwifery conference? Would you recognise that that would be inappropriate?

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

      IT has a problem with fair treatment of women, we know this

      Not in the places where I've worked. Maybe you need a new job?

      1. James Howat

        Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

        Seriously? The "I don't see a problem, perhaps it's you" defence?

        1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

          Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

          Seriously? The "I don't see a problem, perhaps it's you" defence?

          No, the "The women I work with don't make pointless generalisms" defence. I do know some women colleagues who have a problem with some of their male colleagues. I have problems with those same colleagues, they're patronizing and/or arrogant pratts. As a whole I haven't heard female friends complaining about anti-woman bias in IT, that includes my wife who would arguably be most likely to be honest with me about it.

      2. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

        > IT has a problem with fair treatment of women, we know this

        No. IT has an image problem because the frat boys in the news media want to verbally beat up on nerds. They especially want to tear down the more talented types in Silicon Valley. These are the ones that really make your average journalist look like an uneducated idiot.

        That said. A wise geek might want to avoid an easily predictable situation.

    2. Chris Miller

      IT has a problem with fair treatment of women

      Does it? What's your evidence? I'm sure that some male IT workers have problems with women, but that would appear to be the case for many other areas of work.

      It's true that women are under-represented in IT, but there could be many reasons for that. Men are under-represented in some areas of work, like midwifery to take a random example, to no-one's great surprise.

      For the avoidance of doubt, I've worked with women throughout my career in IT. Most of them were competent workers and some of them were very good indeed (some of them were crap, of course - but then so were some of the men I worked with).

      1. James Howat

        Re: IT has a problem with fair treatment of women

        "Does it? What's your evidence?"

        I can't quantify attitudes, but let's stick our fingers in the air and ask the Google gods which way the wind is blowing...

        http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=men+in+midwifery

        Lots of lovely positive stories about how men are rare in midwifery, but being accepted. And that's for a profession that can understandably have a sex difference to it - i.e. being a woman shouldn't matter when you're flying a plane, or cooking food, but conducting an intimate examination? You can see where sex makes a difference here.

        http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=women+in+technology

        Lots of support groups aimed at trying to get women into technology, or supporting their goals once they're in. There is a demand here.

        In the end, it doesn't matter one whit if women, as a horrible generalisation, decide they don't want to go into technology. The problem is that we shouldn't be making the ones that do uncomfortable.

        And the industry has a history of making women feel uncomfortable.

        http://valleywag.gawker.com/this-is-why-there-arent-enough-women-in-tech-1221929631

        1. Blackbird74

          Re: IT has a problem with fair treatment of women

          "And the industry has a history of making women feel uncomfortable.

          http://valleywag.gawker.com/this-is-why-there-arent-enough-women-in-tech-1221929631"

          And valleywag has a history of spouting absolute drivel

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: IT has a problem with fair treatment of women

        "I'm sure that some male IT workers have problems with women..."

        That's a fairly important statement to make. Are you also sure that some female IT workers have problems with men? If so, what does that imply? If not, why not?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

      IT has a problem with fair treatment of women, we know this.

      Does IT? Any more than any other industry or facet of life? Do you have any numbers to back that supposition up? Or should we just aim to ban any speech which mentions or implies a specific gender?

      1. James Howat

        Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

        "Or should we just aim to ban any speech which mentions or implies a specific gender?"

        No. Why on earth would we want to do that?

        Let's do a thought experiment here. What if it were a room full of white men, and a joke about why a piece of software is like a black man? Or a roomful of Christians making a joke about how the government is like a Jew?

        You can get away with those sorts of jokes in private, or even on stage at a comedy show. At a show, something like that can be laughed at - at a conference, it can only be laughed with.

        1. Simon Watson

          Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

          You're deliberately missing the point. He didn't compare Maven to a woman, he compared it to a girlfriend. His comparisons were to the relationship.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

          So, according to you, it's wrong to make jokes about people who aren't present. And presumably it's even worse to make jokes about people who are present.

          Unless, of course, they have a sense of humour. Apparently there are a frightening number of people nowadays who don't.

    4. Skyraker

      Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

      Why dont you go put on a dress.

    5. Christine Hedley

      Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

      IT has a problem with fair treatment of women, we know this.

      It does? Why did nobody tell me? :p

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

      Odd I'm sat directly one of those strange women in IT things your talking about (way more of a techie than me) two desks in front are 2 more women, to my left another, and across the room, 4 more. We have about a 70/30 in this office.

      Now go to your local hospital, tell me the female to male nurse ratio, or how about social work, or primary school teachers, or carers, or even till operators at Tesco's.

      We can try to battle "stereotypes" all you want, but a lot of it is simply the fact men and women just simply want to do different jobs, so lets live with it.

      I for example class myself has a bit of a problem solver, which makes me a shit therapist. I do this job, to fix problems and puzzles, not to give people hugs and make them feel better about themselves.

      The sooner people realise genders DO actually want to do different roles, the better we'll all get on.

      Yes there is an issue with sexism and were it exists, but trust me, spend some time with a bunch of nurses when they've had a few vino's and you'll understand it works both ways, way more derogatory than this.

      Oh and by the way, there IS a boyfriend version of this...

      but to keep the balance:

      http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/quotes/men_are.html

      1. James Howat

        Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

        "Yes there is an issue with sexism and were it exists, but trust me, spend some time with a bunch of nurses when they've had a few vino's and you'll understand it works both ways, way more derogatory than this."

        Believe me, I do know - I married one.

        "We can try to battle "stereotypes" all you want, but a lot of it is simply the fact men and women just simply want to do different jobs, so lets live with it."

        "Men" and "women" do not. People are not a homogenous mass. General tendencies, if they can even be shown to exist, should not dictate limitations on the whole. If I, as an individual, decide that I want to be a nurse, I should not be told that I can't - or be the butt of jokes about how the latest bit of technology in the operating room is like a male nurse, never works, always in the wrong place, etc.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

          "Men" and "women" do not. People are not a homogenous mass. General tendencies, if they can even be shown to exist, should not dictate limitations on the whole

          http://www.channel4embarrassingillnesses.com/episodes/episode-guides/embarrassing-bodies-series-6/episode-3--caerphilly/brain-gender/

          The article, although not the best one I've ever found goes over in brief about brain genders. something which according to scientists, is decided in the womb, based on exposure to testosterone or estrogen. Effectively the result of it was that people with 'Male' gendered brains, who were exposed to more testosterone in the womb, are generall better at visualizing 3d objects, solving puzzles etc. While those with a female gendered brain are generally better at empathetic roles such as reading expression and mood etc, which is one thing which helps to define the career path one might pick ( I wouldn't personally pick a career in art because I'm not good at it)

          There are women exposed to higher than average T-levels and these women may be interested in a career in IT, building, or other traditionally male jobs. Meanwhile there are men exposed to more estrogen than normal who may be more inclined to do teh stereotypical womens jobs (carer, nurse, etc)

          So to sum up the quote

          General tendencies if they can be proved to exist They have.

          Should not dictate limitations as a whole They don't,

          Lets say you have tradiitonally female jobs ,traditionally male jobs, and the in between jobs.

          70% of women will have female gendered brains, and will go for traditionally feminine jobs, or middle jobs

          70% of men will have male gendered brains, and go for the traditionally masculine jobs, or the middle jobs.

          The remaining 30% of each will go for either middle jobs, or the jobs on the opposite side of the spectrum (male nurses, female builders)

          Are women excluded from taking male jobs? No, there are plenty of women in IT, but stastically they won't make it as high as men which is bad. Why aren't there as many high level females in tech as men?

          70-80% male staff, 10-20% female staff.

          A job for management opens up. There are 10 applicants, 8 men, 2 women, a statistically proportionate amount of applications based on the number employed. however it is 4 times as likely a man will be hired for the job than a women, all things being equal.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

            A job for management opens up. There are 10 applicants, 8 men, 2 women, a statistically proportionate amount of applications based on the number employed. however it is 4 times as likely a man will be hired for the job than a women, all things being equal.

            Lets take this a little bit further and imagine that it is consequently four times more likely that the people already in management are men so they start to get the idea that men are more managerial because most of the people they deal with at their level are male. It's not a conscious thought, just something reinforced by their day to day activities.

            Now they see those ten applicants and not only are there more men, but they already think that men are more likely to be good management material because most managers are men, right? Why would you not choose one? Yes, it isn't logical and rational, but then neither are humans, managers doubly so.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

            "70-80% male staff, 10-20% female staff"

            Trying to figure out your maths on this one... surely that should be 20-30% female staff?

            Otherwise, you're suggesting that theres a chance that up to 20% of staff are either androgynous (of indeterminate gender) or non-human! Are there really that many animal / android / alien employees at your company?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

              > Trying to figure out your maths on this one... surely that should be 20-30% female staff?

              The poster was not trying to make a claim that there is no sexism. I think he was pretty explicit about that.

              He was trying to claim (and I believe there was a link to real evidence) that gender differences have a significant role in a general sense.

    7. Irongut

      Re: Before the knee-jerk "PC gone mad" comments start in earnest...

      "IT has a problem with fair treatment of women, we know this."

      I've had more female managers than male. So nope!

  10. David Roberts
    Joke

    Should have said his boyfriend

    Then nobody would have dared complain.

  11. naive

    Political correct nerds

    Does nobody understand a joke anymore ?, it is really shocking to see that everybody immediately starts to nag about this kinds of things, specially in Anglo-Saxon countries where the women are not even that pleasing to the eyes most of the time.

  12. Lis 0r

    Gender

    Shame El Reg didn't consider asking gender in the poll would be relevant, given how many have found it hilarious.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Gender

      And who has found it "hilarious" sir/madam ? There are some comments above about some people seeing it as an old joke but nothing more.

      1. Lis 0r
        Facepalm

        Re: Gender

        308 people right now, according to the *poll*.

  13. LaeMing Silver badge
    Meh

    The Teacup weather report:

    Storms.

    It is a joke. Vaguely amusing, but far too generic to honestly offend anyone not trying very hard to take offence.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    Sigh

    So someone got some sand in their tampon over a harmless piece of "humour".

    And now its viral and whipping up a storm...

    What a humourless, politically correct and repressed society we live in....

    Stop the world, i want to get off....

  15. Tom Wood

    Atlassian just went down in my estimation

    Not because of that guy's slides, but because of their response to it.

    Someone makes a joke which rehashes an old stereotype but really, isn't offensive at all. It's mildly amusing but slightly tiresome at the same time. Other than that it's an irrelevance and it should have been immediately forgotten about.

    Some twit with a cameraphone tweets the joke rather than just ignoring it as he should have done.

    Other twits on Twitter respond to the first twit, in the way twits like to do, rather than just ignoring it as they should have done.

    Finally, Atlassian make the mistake of feeding the twitty trolls rather than just ignoring it, as they should have done.

    1. Tom Wood

      Re: Atlassian just went down in my estimation

      And El Reg reported it, rather than just ignoring it, and I responded to that article, rather than just ignoring it. Gah!

  16. Valeyard

    bad wording

    He could have made the same joke with a more "acceptable" target; replace "girlfriend" with

    "Boyfriend"

    "Dog/Cat"

    "Child"

    and you have the same joke without riling up the professional offence-takers that populate twitter, just bad planning!

  17. Charles Manning

    Women in tech got offended by this?

    The statement is more offensive to males with girlfriends than to girlfriends.

    One wonders how they got past male/female plugs/sockets.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Doesn't play well with my other friends

    He didn't say doesn't play well with my other girlfriends so I think it's safe to assume she does to some extent play with his male friends. Hey dude, listen up, the former is camera out cool, the latter is reason to ditch her.

    However this is rather irrelevant as he definitely does not have a girlfriend, if he did point three would be, "Interrupts me when it's most inconvenient for me", they seem to have a knack for that. One way to get a woman's attention is sit down with a bacon sarnie and a cup of tea and she'll be there within microseconds to tell you there's a bit of dust somewhere that you just have to look at. No wonder the shed was invented.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Coffee/keyboard

    Arghhhhhhhh!

    I wouldn't fall off my chair in shock if these 'floods' of Twitter angst are organised by NGOs who love such events since they help justify their existence.

    Everybody gets teased now and then; I'm bald, Welsh and overweight and guess what? Yup.

    Do people go on high-alert when they tease IT men for being neck beardy with sandals? I've not seen those angry tweets. Where are the angry tweets where men, in TV adverts, portrayed as incompetent and backward in the face of a wonderfully wise and clever woman?

    Seen that advert for women who have their period? The joke is that men are so annoying to women while they have their period so the woman in the advert has an ejector seat fitted so she can eject her annoying male partner. That tells me that men are thick, annoying and deserving of violence, so where are THOSE complaints?

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So when do men start taking offence to the myriad ads that portray them as bumbling idiots that need to have women point out how stupid they are? As jake illustrated, reverse it and it's not offensive, and that should be the only litmus test. Honestly, this may have been in poor taste (it wasn't), but the reaction is way, way over the top.

    A/C for very obvious reasons.

    1. James Howat

      Whether or not something is accurate is not the measure of whether something is troubling or not.

      We may be portrayed as idiots, it's okay because we still run everything. It's annoying, but I don't think I'm going to be denied a job because my gender is made to look silly in adverts. Or, given that the adverts generally portray relationships, I don't think it can be shown that men are less likely to get married because women have realised how stupid we are because of ads.

      1. Androgynous Cupboard Silver badge

        >We may be portrayed as idiots, it's okay because we still run everything.

        > It's annoying, but I don't think I'm going to be denied a job because my

        > gender is made to look silly in adverts.

        Implying it's not OK to portray women as idiots because they don't run everything and are going to be denied a job?

        Maybe in some sectors, maybe 20 years ago, but nowhere I've ever worked (in the UK). There are markedly less women in IT, and there are less men in primary teaching as well. I'd like to see both of these remedied, but I don't think it's because anyone is "denied a job because of (their) gender". If I thought otherwise I'd be the first to put the boot in, as would most men I know.

        I think you're extrapolating wildly here James - I see the point you're trying to make, but you're conflating a bit of piss-taking with genuine discrimination. I think most people generally accept the first, and don't throw my toys out of the pram over this joke any more than if men are portrayed as buffoons on the telly. Not because we "still run everything", but because it's not important - as you said, it's not going to affect anyone's hiring decision. Well, neither will this joke.

      2. dogged

        > we still run everything

        Absolutely. Every man in the entire world meets in a shed (assigned by rotation) every third Tuesday of the month to work out our plans for repression of women and investment in power tools.

        It's your shed in a fortnight, James. Remember to move the wheelbarrow.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's only to be hoped Adria Richards wasn't in the room.

    He'd be in a shallow grave by now :-)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's only to be hoped Adria Richards wasn't in the room.

      I wondered how long until she was mentioned!

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One-way traffic

    Any given week, here in the UK, you can open one or more of the "quality" national newspapers and find a long screed by a female columnist packed with similar complaints about her actual husband or partner. They get paid big bucks for that, and no doubt tens of thousands of women all over the country read the screed and nod approvingly. ("Yes, all men ARE that bad"). I can't imagine many men read those columns, and if women didn't read them why would the paper give them such prominence?

    "Social media" have a lot to answer for. The best idea is just to ignore them, if you can, and get on with real life.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Because women never joke about their boyfriends?

    Or boyfriends in general? Give me a break.

    1. dan1980

      Re: Because women never joke about their boyfriends?

      Apparently men are like dogs - warm and furry but no matter how much you train them they still wee on the floor. Apparently.

      We're constantly horny but our dicks are too small and too soft and we're always done too fast. We're stupid, we never change the toilet roll, we need breaking-in and we're only good if we're rich. We're arrogant, we're liars, we're sooks, we're smelly, we're difficult and we're always bloody wrong. Thankfully we're also apparently all interchangeable.

      1. DropBear Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Because women never joke about their boyfriends?

        Sorry, you forgot the One Mortal Sin all men commit yet no man should ever be forgiven for: Leaving The Toilet Seat Up!!! </sarcasm>

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ?????

    Get a grip world, it was a joke, nothing more, nothing less

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    grauniad

    chances of these angry twitterers having registered accounts to comment on guardian articles:

    100%

  26. Stuart Castle

    FFS

    Some people need a sense of humour. Apart from his mention of a girlfriend in the title, those comments could apply to *anyone* in a relationship, be it with a man or woman.

    Hell, the comments could apply to a lot of people I know, and I'm certainly not in a relationship with them.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: FFS

      Exactly.

  27. Faye B

    Overreaction and zeitgeist

    I think there has been a lot of overreaction about this, considering it is a fairly mild joke that could just easily have been applied to any significant other (especially if the word beautiful had been replaced with lovely). However, the twitter-sphere is merely a reflection of the zeitgeist prevalent among the intellectuals in that everyone must be seen to react strongly to any slight in order to prove that they are so cool. I suspect most of the tweeters and re-tweeters don't give a damn whether anyone was insulted just as long as they can be seen to be in with the in crowd (the 'me-too' syndrome).

    Humans tend to conform to certain stereotypes and those stereotypes can be used as metaphors for illustration. Comedians have long picked up on stereotypical behaviour as source material (think of all those old mother-in-law jokes that are now passé). Using a bit of humour to brighten up a dull talk can't be a bad thing, surely, especially if it illustrates a point. And the bullets referred to his specific mythical girlfriend, not all girlfriends and certainly not all women. Finally, if a woman had stood up there and put up the same slide but with the word boyfriend would anyone have complained about men being insulted. I think not.

    1. dan1980

      Re: Overreaction and zeitgeist

      @Faye B

      Were the roles reversed, the points would more likely be:

      • You have to click a few times before it responds
      • Single-threaded
      • You have to wait for it to finish what it's doing first
      • No command queuing
      • No error reporting capability
      • Hard-coded to use 128MB of memory
      • Very slow to open up but quick to shut down

      And so on.

  28. codejunky Silver badge

    Really?

    Some people have no sense of humour. I feel sorry for the guy being bullied into apologising. Anyone can take offence at almost anything. The lynch mob looking for offence need to be put in the same bag as those intentionally causing offence and beat some sense into the lot of them. They are ruining the world for the rest of us.

    1. cracked
      Paris Hilton

      Re: Really?

      " I feel sorry for the guy being bullied into apologising"

      I sympathise too.

      And, to be honest, the issue of the treatment of women in IT pales in comparison to the far more serious crime, of letting one of the geeks out in public, with a copy of Powerpoint. I see Atlassian has apologised for this serious lapse and quite right too.

      1. dajames Silver badge

        Re: Really?

        ... the far more serious crime, of letting one of the geeks out in public, with a copy of Powerpoint.

        The guy was lecturing about Maven ... a non-geek couldn't have done it ... and a non-geek wouldn't have attended.

        (... but I see what you did there.)

  29. wolfetone

    Are you trying to tell me

    That girlfriends don't nag you and don't moan, and what his man said was wrong?

    This morning for example, the girlfriend moaned at me for passing wind while I was in bed. I couldn't help it, but she went on as if I had just done a dump on the kitchen table. Totally overblown, just like the reaction to this gentleman's comment.

  30. Werner McGoole

    Investigative journalism at its best

    Small group of people on Twitter get annoyed about something trivial. What a great story that'll make.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Completely off and baseless noise

    Read it again. There's nothing against women in particular in the slide. Replace "girlfriend" with "boyfriend" and there is absolutely no difference. He could have said "Maven is like being in a relationship" and all gender traces would have disappeared and the slide still would have been funny and true.

    Anyone engaged in a relationship that does not consider his/her (see, I'm being careful here) significant other beautiful ("Looks beautiful"), does not have conflicts with him/her ("Complains a lot"), does not devote time to him/her ("Demands my attention"), does not give priority to him/her above everything else ("Interrupts me") and does not have issues with the world you lived in before starting the relationship ("Doesn't play well with my other friends") is simply not having a relationship at all.

    Stop looking for sexism where there is really an humorous comment on the nature of relationships, made from the point of view of an heterosexual male (what if this guy was homosexual? would that invoke the same reaction from gay communities?) Bashing this guy does not do any favors to women, neither in IT nor elsewhere. And it is absurd.

    Any woman offended by that slide is really showing off her lack of experience in meaningful relationships, or a lack of self confidence, or her lack of ability to do critical thinking. Or all of them.

  32. ukgnome
    Joke

    The "it's a joke" brigade have missed the point

    Firstly jokes are meant to be funny or fuelled by sarcasm or irony. This attempt is just shit.

    And secondly it's not for the tech community to judge, when this went out into the twatosphere others other than tech heads will of been made aware of it. This makes me, you and loads of other people in IT look like cocks. And whilst that might be true we shouldn't advertise it, unless it's y'know big cocks and that's what the women want, or men, or sheep....

    1. Tom Wood

      Re: The "it's a joke" brigade have missed the point

      when this went out into the twatosphere others other than tech heads will of been made aware of it

      And that is what's wrong with twitter, and the Daily Mail. They seem to think it's acceptable to take something out of a closed context, wave it around in public, and shout "LOOK AT WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING! YOU SHOULD BE OUTRAGED AND JUDGE THEM". Even though you weren't there, and you weren't in the target audience.

      In the old days this would never have left the conference room, and that would have been that.

      A public speaker now has to consider not just his actual intended audience, but any little twit who knows nothing of the context but everything about being judgmental about things he has no right to judge. Which can only make public speaking worse.

      1. ukgnome

        Re: The "it's a joke" brigade have missed the point

        2 Things, in the old days - blah blah blah - get with the program, we don't live in the old days, and public speaking, by very nature is public. Maybe they should hire private speakers.

        It concerns me that my peer group are a bunch of unfunny misogynistic twunts.

        *oh calling you all twunts so publicly is actually a joke and you shouldn't be offended.

        1. Tom Wood

          Re: The "it's a joke" brigade have missed the point

          we don't live in the old days...public speaking, by very nature is public

          Indeed, but that doesn't mean we have to throw out all the interesting variety of discourse we used to have and replace it with bland drivel for fear of upsetting absolutely anyone on twitter. Yes, it's public speaking, but it shouldn't mean the speaker has to expect some twit to strip a snippet of the speech from all surrounding context and lay it before other twits to pass judgment.

          1. ukgnome

            Re: interesting variety of discourse????

            So what you are saying is it's OK to be an unfunny misogynist as long as no one finds out? Does this translate to any other views? I find it hard to believe that anyone would happily sit themselves in the "I'm not, but" camp.

            Granted it's all a bit of a storm in a teacup, but with so many dick heads saying there is nothing wrong with it. Well that just perpetuates the myth that IT is run mainly by men that live with their mum and can't get a girlfriend. Whilst we shouldn't hang him for the stupid slide we shouldn't applaud him either.

            1. Tom Wood

              Re: interesting variety of discourse????

              Well that just perpetuates the myth that IT is run mainly by men that live with their mum and can't get a girlfriend.

              Actually, it doesn't. The guy who wrote the slide has a girlfriend. If she's anything like my financee (yes, I work in IT too, and I don't live with my mum: take that, myth!) she'd probably laugh about it. Normal people in normal relationships can and do have a bit of a joke with each other, often at the other's expense.

              Whilst we shouldn't hang him for the stupid slide we shouldn't applaud him either.

              Exactly. We should ignore it. At the very most be British and tut to ourselves a bit.

              My point was a wider one around freedom of speech and the effect of twitter/Daily Mail created false outrage. When talking to a restricted audience, it is good to be able to engage with your audience and share a joke on the understanding that everyone within the room knows it's a joke. The only people entitled to take offence are those in the room. But now speakers face the risk that it will be taken out of context by people who are not in the room and used to whip up a frenzy. Which is surely going to have the effect of making public talks much more bland.

            2. Down not across Silver badge

              Re: interesting variety of discourse????

              Granted it's all a bit of a storm in a teacup, but with so many dick heads saying there is nothing wrong with it. Well that just perpetuates the myth that IT is run mainly by men that live with their mum and can't get a girlfriend. Whilst we shouldn't hang him for the stupid slide we shouldn't applaud him either.

              General consensus in this thread seems to suggest more that the only people getting really offended probably (just a guess of course) are ones that are NOT in a relationship and perhaps have trouble getting into one.

              I agree with the numerous comments that this is really PC gone totally overboard. In all the decades I've been working (both in IT and in other sectors) these kind of mild jokes never offended anyone. It's getting to the point where one can't really say anything without _someone_ getting offended. Even the passing Vogons are starting to look tempting, their poetry is more palatable than the PC in overdrive.

  33. Graham Triggs

    And yet...

    Almost the entire set of respondents in the poll attached to this [correctly] decided that he wasn't generalizing about all women. Actually, he wasn't even generalizing about some women, or describing one in particular...

    "[It's comparing women to objects, negatively, and] perpetuating idiotic harmful gender roles."

    No, it isn't. It's comparing a spouse negatively, and perpetuating the stereotype of a partner. And *everybody* complains about their partners - men, women, straight, gay, lesbian... *everybody*.

  34. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

    Alternative viewpoint

    Looks beautiful

    Complains a lot

    Demands my attention

    Interrupts me when I'm working

    Doesn't play well with my other friends

    That's a perfect description of my office cat - the one who just walked across my keyboard and is now loudly complaining that I won't haven't taken her for a walk yet today.

    1. Toastan Buttar

      Re: Alternative viewpoint

      Taken the cat for a walk??? Seriously? Open the door...'walkies' taken care of. Not much danger of them mauling neighbours because they're hot and thirsty. The worst that can happen is they 'adopt' some other family for extra rations and pats whilst not at their 'real home'.

      Dogs, OTOH. Yep, they need walked by a responsible human.

  35. dan1980

    The real sexism is the double standards

    Turn on the TV.

    Watch the ads. It's not something I usually advocate but watch them. Watch the stereotypical bumbling male, the embarrassing dad, the tool/sport-obsessed husband, the grunting teenage boy. Then see next to them the patient, do-it-all woman without whom those poor men would be lost.

    The presenter was a man and presumably heterosexual, so the comparison was to a girlfriend. While the difference was obviously lost on those eager to take offence, he was comparing the object (the software) to his girlfriend, and not the other way around. The subject was the software.

    It was a simile, saying that item A shared certain properties with item B; it was not saying that everything that is true of A is true of B.

    Get the fuck over it. GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

    My partner would describe as all those things, with the possible exception of the first. (No accounting for taste, thankfully.)

    1. dan1980

      Re: The real sexism is the double standards

      My partner would describe me as . . .

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The real sexism is the double standards

        "My partner would describe me as . . ."

        Surprised you survived long enough to make the correction.

  36. ratfox Silver badge

    The joke made me smile

    I believe there should have been one more possible answer to the second question in the poll, which is "He was talking about nobody, since it was a joke".

  37. Crisp Silver badge

    Women are legitimate targets of jokes...

    Just like men are.

  38. sorry, what?
    Stop

    That poll is biased and misses the point

    I can't even answer the first question the way I would want to (so can't see the second): the first option is far too positive whilst the second option is far too negative.

    I interpreted the slide (taken completely out of context, as it is) as a slightly amusing joke, but the point is it is trying to use an analogy that will make the various points stick in the audience's minds. As such, and IMHO, job well done (assuming they took the time to read the points and digest the meaning without seeing red and shouting "sexist!"). Or am I being a misogynist?

    1. bigtimehustler

      Re: That poll is biased and misses the point

      "I can't even answer the first question the way I would want to (so can't see the second): the first option is far too positive whilst the second option is far too negative." - if you couldn't see the second how do you know it is far too negative?

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: That poll is biased and misses the point

        He/she said second *option* !

  39. This post has been deleted by its author

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wow, talk about humour erosion..

    Whoever complained about this should really spend some time investigating humour. As far as I can tell, we've actually become LESS tolerant.

    I see these sort of statements only as offensive if they were indeed MEANT to hurt instead of just lighten the mood a bit. You may find them in bad taste, but that's about it.

    In this I agree with Jimmy Carr: offence is not given, but taken.

    (slight aside, I have the feeling it should be "offense" for some reason, but I decided to believe the spell checker - happy to be corrected)

    1. markw:

      Re: Wow, talk about humour erosion..

      Offense = USA.

      Offence = Rest of the world.

      Both mean the same.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wow, talk about humour erosion..

      You are quite right, we are becoming less tolerant.

      Less tolerant of racism

      Less tolerant of homophobia

      Less tolerant of transphobia (not enough yet....)

      Less tolerant of companies doing bad things (though not enough to do anything about it yet)

      etc etc

      When we become less tolerant of casual sexism the world will be a better place.

      As for Jimmy Carr (unfunny as he is whether he is causing offence or not) has no right to tell me what I should be offended by, Or can you just end every sentence with 'No offence meant' and say what you want?

      As for this, yes it's been overblown maybe. But it is still offensive. One way to tell is that an amount of the targets of the joke have been offended (that should give it away).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wow, talk about humour erosion..

        As for Jimmy Carr (unfunny as he is whether he is causing offence or not) has no right to tell me what I should be offended by

        I think you may want to pay attention to the big whooshing sound that passed over your head..

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Wow, talk about humour erosion..

      "As far as I can tell, we've actually become LESS tolerant".

      There isn't the slightest doubt about that. Toleration of a few politically correct things is flaunted, while there is no toleration whatsoever of anything or anyone even slightly departing from PC standards.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Impressive performance commentards

    If I was an intelligent young woman at the start of my career wondering what direction to take, I think the combination of comments and voting here would be more than sufficient to persuade me that IT would offer a toxic working environment and to look elsewhere.

    1. dan1980

      Re: Impressive performance commentards

      @AC

      You did see, didn't you, that the slide said that Maven was like his girlfriend, right? It didn't say that Maven was like 'a woman'.

      Anyone taking this as sexist is putting words into his mouth. You don't know him and you don't know his girlfriend. ALL you can say, if you are being fair, is that he was identifying traits of the software that are similar to traits of his girlfriend. Given that - what if his girlfriend is, in fact, all those things? Is it sexist if it is accurate?

      Now, you might not find it funny but if that's the kind of thing that would put you off (were you "an intelligent young woman") then you'd be just as well staying out of the IT industry. Not because you were thin-skinned or "couldn't take a joke", but because you made a stupid, unfounded assumption and jumped to a conclusion based on your emotions. I wouldn't want someone like that in my data centre.

      On a final note, try tell me with a straight face (I'll take your word for it) that you've never heard a woman say a variation of ". . . like my Husband". Now, this may sound like I just made it up - it's too convenient - but that happened to me TODAY. TO-DAY. I was explaining that the problem in the particular instance was that the software was trying to be helpful by pre-selecting the options it thought the user wanted.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Impressive performance commentards

      If that's enough to put you off working in the sector, you probably don't enjoy tech enough to be working in the sector and you may be better off doing something else..... in another sector.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A sample joke from the future:

    [X] is like a completely average person doing normal things on a normal day in a normal house with normal doors and windows.

    Now that's funny.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Irony.

    2. BlartVersenwaldIII

      Still offensive I'm afraid, especially when you take into account that all of the words used in it may become racial or sexual slurs in years to come. But to take specific examples:

      "[X] is like a completely average"

      You say they're only "like" a completely average person, not actually an average person. This strikes me as something of a backhanded compliment.

      "a completely average person"

      I notice you've used the singular - how very typical and closed-minded of you. What about people with multiple personality disorders?

      "person doing normal things"

      You don't even list what normal things they're doing - both the teller and the recipient of the joke need to know this in order to make an effective structure for humour to commence. Obviously, their "normal" activities also need to be know to the government so as to ascertain whether the circumstances surrounding this joke are legal and whether or not the teller might need to be sent for counselling, sensitivity training or tolerance re-education.

      "in a normal house"

      In a white middle-class neighbourhood no doubt, where all the men bring home the bread and the women are chained to the kitchen. Let me guess - this so-called "normal" house of yours contains a kitchen, properly known as a femidungeon? I won't even allow my children to step into one.

      And this isn't even getting into the possibility of people being offended by the act of someone inhabiting a house (e.g. certain nomadic tribes who find such a concept religiously offensive) or your blatant values dissonance where you consider only a home-owner worthy of being given centre stage in a joke. Why are other differentially obodified people not allowed a look-in?

      I could go on but in short, in your attempt to write a joke, you offended not only me but potentially millions of others - and it wasn't even remotely funny. Of course, your whole endeavour was flawed from the start since "humour" is always at the expense of others and from that we can deduce that all jokes are offensive to someone and thus should obviously be banned. You should be ashamed of yourself. Allow me to show you how to write a politically correct joke properly:

  43. Rosie Davies

    Friday Furors

    I wonder if this is a new Reg Friday game. Post something that is likely to stir up the usual "you're a sexist", "no, YOU'RE a sexist", "no YOU'RE devaluing women", "no YOU'RE being humourless" argument then sit back and watch the comments thread grow.

    El Reg trolling El Reg? Shirley Knott?

    Rosie

  44. bigtimehustler

    As the poll at the bottom of this post shows, this is a lot of fuss by a few people and far less attention should be given to the complaining minority all the time.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Woddyafink?

    Quote:

    "JavaScript Disabled Please Enable JavaScript to use this feature."

    p.s. there's this chick in the background, by the looks of it, pining for the fjords.

    Anyway, to the point, aka as "wodduafink", this is what I do to my girlfriend. And this is what my girlfriend does to me, if and when.

    On a more general note, it seems that twitter and facebook are the v 2.0 of The Sun and other reputable mass-media for the masses.

    Ah, and I wonder, if the guy had used the word "boyfriend" instead of a "girlfriend", would he have been hailed as a champion of cool, for introducing witty humour to the world of likewise-minded and bodied people?

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    An age old problem

    Comedy. Most of it is shite, made for the majority, who laugh at what the rest of the audience (or the laughter track) laughs at. Absolute prime example, as mentioned above - Jim Davidson! Forget about 'Chalky' and whatever else he does - anyone out there ever hear him say ANYTHING funny? Don't know if the racist Tory wanker still drives a Roller; presume he still lives in that haven for our financially-successful cunts though.

    [sigh] The thing is, if you're a bit pathetic, you find a lot of stuff funny that is merely weak. A little more pathetic and you're the one who comes out with it. The one who thought about it and still said it. Jeez.

    When it isn't funny, all that remains is the demonstration of what you think is and/or will say or do for approval. Usually it involves the low-hanging fruit. Socially-stupid people laugh with a flood of relief in the momentary exhilaration of freedom when someone makes 'jokes' that are actually thinly-veiled expressions of what they really think, within the safe confines of night-club/working men's club/conference room where 'everyone else feels the same way'. That's offense disguised as humour. Although in this case I'm more inclined to think the guy was pandering.

  47. Anonymous Coward
    Holmes

    Presentations

    Like the comments it is All sound and fury signyfing nothing

    He used a not particularly good metaphor, maybe poor taste (debatable), but for presntations not bad. But, all in all it is just jumping on the offencebus.

  48. Fading Silver badge
    Trollface

    So if my girlfriend.....

    Is object oriented (changes position depending on the object), has terrible garbage collection (I have to manually take out the trash) and frequently runs out of memory (forgets things) then I can compare her to a rose but not Java?

  49. disgruntled yank Silver badge

    Jumped to the end

    On the whole, I'd rather debug PHP written by the Gender Studies tenure committee than listen to coders discuss this.

  50. Phil W

    The modern world...

    ...seems to have had a sense of humour bypass. He was simply making a light hearted comparison intended to disparage the product, not any particular person or people in general.

    If the comparison has been entirely positive "Is beautiful, helps keep my life happy and stress free, is entirely wonderful in it's own right", would there have been this many complaints?

    If the comparison had been to some drunk guy down the pub "Gets in the way, is loud and annoying, hampers my efforts in what I'm trying to do", would there have been this many complaints?

    If the presenter was gay, and had been making this comparison to his same sex partner using the exact same phrasing, would there have been this many complaints?

  51. Moosh
    Thumb Down

    I lose all respect for people that apologize for things like this, just to please a vocal minority that in the bigger picture have little to no impact on anything he's doing anyway.

    The MOST he should have done was clarify that he was just joking about the "clingy girlfriend" stereotype and not all women, and then continued to flip the bird at everyone who was still for some reason incensed.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The MOST he should have done was clarify that he was just joking about the "clingy girlfriend" stereotype and not all women

      Personally, I don't think he needed to do even that. I would have looked with sheer disbelief at someone voicing such a critique, and that would be about the strength of it. Online I would not even deign such a comment with an answer (ok, maybe "really?") because I don't feel compelled to walk on eggshells in this world because of a couple of people who seem to spend their time finding things to be offended by. Screw that. It's one of the reasons I will never go into politics.

    2. Swarthy Silver badge

      instead of "Clingy Girlfriend"

      He could have just used "My Ex" and left it at that.

  52. Yugguy

    Everyone jumping on the PC bandwagon in self-righteous anger when really they completely agree.

  53. Infernoz Bronze badge
    Coat

    Silly person

    Maven does process stuff because it's meant to, so if he does like it, either fix his process or see if he can find another build tool which is better.... good luck with that!

    Even if some of the comparisons are valid, it isn't smart to say it in public, especially comparing women to automated process, even if it is amusing :)

  54. oblivion
    Alert

    Geez...

    Would this be as offensive if he would have made it less gender-specific? Some people, regardless of gender, completely fit that cliche. And it must have struck a chord with some of the people that are protesting so vehemently that they are offended by this. People usually don't get that up in arms about anything unless there's a kernel of truth to it. Most of us that have had any kind of a life in the past have dated the mythical person to which he's referring or know someone that has.

  55. Donkey Molestor X

    if you ever want to see a preponderance of butthurt just watch a bunch of entitled dudebros get told they should try not saying sexist shit every single second of the goddamned day.

    let me summarize all these dudebro posts for you:

    "women get paid less, get sexually harassed out of all reasonable proportion compared to men, and are always asked to "prove" themselves in technical environments again out of all reasonable proportion to men... but I can't make sexist jokes with no consequence anymore. clearly I'm the REAL victim here. WAAAH"

    1. bigtimehustler

      What evidence do you have that men get sexually harassed less than women? It could also be that men don't consider it harassment until it reaches a higher bar. Comparing gender is pointless because our opinions of what is offensive to ourselves are completely different and they are to an extent based on what gender we are. What gender we are does after all affect how we think about things and we feel. Does that mean that men shouldn't act as men do and women act as women do? No of course not, some people just want it all their own way and always will do.

    2. JayB
      Unhappy

      Re Donkey Molestor

      "women get paid less, get sexually harassed out of all reasonable proportion compared to men"

      Errr.... implying that there is a reasonable level of proportion for sexual harassment of women? I may be one of those misogynistic dudebros who though the guy's presentation was a joke (just a fairly obvious and generic one), but I am pretty bloody certain that all sexual harassment is unreasonable to both sexes. That’s why it’s called harassment.

      If people spent less time going around looking for reasons to be offended and more time going around having fun, I’d probably be less depressed about the f**k-awful stupidity of the human race.

  56. davcefai

    I remember something called a "sense of humour". Has this been filtered out of the gene pool?

  57. Forget It
    Coffee/keyboard

    Perhaps the Garbage Collector could be run on this topic - could save a lot of angst, and free up some memory - probably

  58. DaveyG

    Women!

    If a woman made the same comparison about men everyone would just laugh.

  59. ecofeco Silver badge

    Some people really do need a life

    Not only was it a joke, but a joke based on reality.

    Anyone offended by this is WAY too sensitive and needs a life.

  60. Stretch

    Oh FFS. What lame nerd rage.

  61. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    See! The level of idiocy of the professionally offended nitwits on Twitter has got me nodding in agreement with Hamill! Checking in to see if Hell has frozen over.

  62. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maven is my girlfriend

    Full of holes.

    I like to debugger.

    Return

    Goto Next

  63. John Savard Silver badge

    We Are at War

    The fact that this joke involves stereotypes is hardly enough to brand it as EEEVIL. People should not be so hypersensitive.

    Of course, that wouldn't be true if a racial stereotype had been used as part of a joke. Why not? Isn't discrimination against women to be taken seriously?

    That isn't it. What is true, though, is that the interplay between male and female is a normal and universal part of life. As a common source of life situations, it will naturally appear in humor.

    Unlike a racial minority, women, not being external to the society they share with men, are not at risk of genocide. But, on the other hand, the reaction does make sense from the perspective that our society is in a struggle, in which victory has not yet been achieved, to obtain full equality for women.

  64. johnwerneken

    nothing offensive here

    There are plenty of people richly deserving whatever epithet comes to mind whether or not including references to such things as skin tone, gender, language, nationality, ethnic origin, sexual preference, dis- or special-ability, or any of the categories we ALL recognize as valid but that the more rational of us refrain from using as if they were valid for OTHER things be they skills or morals or behavior.

    I have an absolute right to offend insult and enrage however many folks I please.

  65. Doug Bostrom

    JIRA's a fat pig, but sexless.

  66. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The bit I find offensive...

    ...is that he likes Maven so much. It's surely one of the worst build tools ever.

  67. ATeal

    To be fair

    This is worse than the "I'd fork her dongle" or whatever that Python one was.

    I can actually see how this one would annoy people. These kind of jokes should be done among friends not put on a presentation slide.

    So while the joke itself isn't bad. Projecting it onto a huge screen in front of a large audience was.

    (Also the forking dongle guys, they were in the audience, small scale things like that. They didn't stand up and say "Everyone look at this girl! I want to fork her dongle! I'ma gonna mount her to /hotel/, dd my load in her! Turn her into a headless one and stick her in a room with countless others! Then use ssh to get into her" that would be bad)

  68. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This evil man is clearly another Elliot Rodger in the making.

  69. Zot
    Facepalm

    Role reversal

    I suppose if this was a woman talking about her boyfriend, we'll be all rolling around with laughter.

    Right? I mean, it's just so funny, right?

  70. Bucky 2

    If he was a gay guy talking about his boyfriend, I think his analogy would still work.

    Everybody knows someone (or in this case, has been someone) who is involved with someone else who is completely wrong for them.

    That other person usually senses this, and then, as the relationship disintegrates, becomes that complaining, demanding person in the slide that all of your other friends (men and women, I'd wager) all hate.

    So ask yourself this: Would it be reasonable to think he looked down at all men simply because he was in a bad relationship and had the poor taste to talk about it in public?

  71. king of foo

    Linus torvalds explains...

    "I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended."

  72. cordwainer 1

    Professionalism

    It's not just men who do this, obviously. I'm female, and I'm frequently embarrassed and appalled by members of my own gender who are so clueless they don't even seem to realize they're engaging in exactly the same sort of stereotyping - "reverse chauvinism", so to speak - they deplore in men.

    This is a part of a larger societal problem, i.e., continuing to claim there are "boy" things and "girl" things, starting at an early age. Children are too often discouraged - by bad parents, bad teachers, and an avalanche of bad examples in the media, TV, and movies - from pursuing activities or interests termed "unfeminine" or "unmanly".

    In reality, neither term has any meaning. There is nothing inherently "unfeminine"about playing sports, studying science, enjoying first-person shooters....nothing inherently "unmanly" about cooking, studying literature, knitting, etc.

    Cultures throughout history have managed to define the same activity as both "manly" and "unmanly", "feminine" and "unfeminine". The terms are arbitrary, inconsistent, and obvious nonsense - purely defined by the current whims of a particular society, group, culture, or country.

    It's time we faced the truth squarely:

    Gender stereotypes are a form of sexism, just as racial stereotypes are a form of racism.

    Both sexism and racism are forms of prejudice or bigotry.

    Jokes based on gender or racial stereotypes are prejudiced or bigoted jokes.

    Sure, people are free to tell them, free to laugh at them (at least in their private life, with their friends, outside of work).

    They have freedom of speech. They have the right to be bigots if they choose. They have the right to be prejudiced.

    But attempting to camouflage bigotry as humor doesn't magically change it into non-bigotry.

    Camouflaging sexism as humor doesn't magically render it non-sexist.

    And vilifying as "humorless" anyone who objects to bigoted, stereotypical jokes is a form of bullying and defensiveness.It tries to claim people who object to sexism, or racism, or other -isms, simply "can't take a joke."

    Nope - people who object to bigoted jokes are simply non-bigots. They have every right NOT to be bigots, not to be prejudiced, not to be sexists, not to be racists. They have every right to object to all those things if they wish.

    And they have not just the right but the OBLIGATION to object to stereotypical humor in some cases. Because alleged "humor" based specifically on sexist, racist, or other stereotypes - HAS NO PLACE IN A PROFESSIONAL OR BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT.

    In any business or professional context, there should be Zero Tolerance for ANY form of bigotry, prejudice, sexism, racism, or other -ism - whether phrased as a joke or not.

    In business, freedom of speech does NOT apply, but policy and law DO.

    Freedom of speech is not an absolute. It is contextual, and always has been.

    Men AND Women have forgotten how to behave at work. Both genders - and the companies that employ them - obviously need to be re-educated in the basics of professional behavior.

    The workplace is not a bar or your living room, folks. Stop treating it like one.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Professionalism

      Luckily you USED bold and excessive CAPITALS so I KNEW which bits WERE IMPORTANT. Otherwise I MIGHT not have UNDERstood what you were getting at.

  73. Nuno trancoso

    @cordwainer 1

    While i agree that the workplace is not the place and time to crack jokes, you're making too much out of very little. Think like this, if you make a joke about snakes, guess what, you're discriminating the poor reptiles. Pretty soon you can't joke about anything because let's face it, if it's a joke, you're gonna end up making fun of something or someone.

    But, if you're on a roll, gives your thoughts on reverse discrimination and quotas.

  74. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Storm? Teacup?

    What I find even more surprising is that there are four pages of comments!

    ... and here's me adding to it.

  75. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Best ban all analogies - and humour

    Anyone ever heard a female comedian? When their material isn't based around menstruation then its the inadequacies of men. It's commonly low grade material, we're supposed to regard stereotypes and insults as jokes but I don't get on my moral high horse about it. The imbecile in this instance is the one of that large audience who chose to misrepresent a humorous analogy with no malice behind it to a wider audience. (s)he should be named and shamed and should apologise to JD.

    Twitter is like my wife - dreadful signal to noise ratio. Not funny but true.

  76. southen bastard

    The woman are victems is so well ingrained that they cant get away from it

  77. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ... and if a woman did this against a man? Much different outcome - everyone would laugh and tee-hee and say You Go Girl...

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