back to article LulzSec's Sabu hacked foreign gov sites while under FBI control – NYT

Ex-LulzSec chief Sabu orchestrated attacks on government computers in Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Brazil while under the control of the FBI, according to a New York Times investigation. After he was apprehended and turned to became an FBI informant, Hector Xavier "Sabu" Monsegur encouraged fellow Anonymous hackers to hit foreign …

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  1. malle-herbert Silver badge
    Coat

    So...

    He was pulling a reverse-Snowden ?

  2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    WTF?

    So what?

    So the inference is the FBI did something bad by storing evidence? WTF? That's like implying that if the FBI setup a sting op on a gang of wannabe drug smugglers by pointing them at a cocaine supplier in Colombia, that makes the FBI drug dealers. It doesn't mean dick that Sabu's idiotic chums got hints from the FBI, it was Sabu's chums that willingly hacked the target systems and committed criminal acts.

    1. Irongut

      Re: So what?

      The inference is that the FBI wanted to hack Iran, etc but didn't want to get caught so they enticed some civilians to do it for them. If Sabu hadn't suggested a list of targets that are all on Uncle Sam's naughty list then it wouldn't look so bad.

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Irongut Re: So what?

        "The inference is that the FBI wanted to hack Iran...." OK, for that inference to hold, you would have to show a REASON for the FBI to want to hack anything in Iran. That would be the NSA, not the FBI, and I seriously doubt if Sabu and his dimwitted chums could teach the NSA anything. Face it, the only reason the sheeple want to push this smear is because they WANT to baaaaah-lieve in The Big Evil Man. If you want to baaah-lieve it, please do go look at the list of targets and the information they contained and then formulate a logical explanation as to why the FBI would actually be interested in them, then try and explain how it then helps the FBI to tell the courts what info was pinched?

        ".....but didn't want to get caught....." So the FBI avoids getting caught by keeping the evidence of the hack and giving it to the prosecution in a public trial case...? Yeah, you really thought that one through - not!

        "....If Sabu hadn't suggested a list of targets that are all on Uncle Sam's naughty list then it wouldn't look so bad." Of course, because without that those bunch of lamers would have just sat in their hands, right? They were CRIMINAL HACKERS, if the FBI hadn't given them some targets they would have been running wild. I'm sure part of the FBI's reasoning was to keep them away from targets in the US.

    2. The Mole

      Re: So what?

      Yes the FBI encouraging people and giving support to people to commit a crime is morally wrong if the drug smugglers are currently only 'wanna-be' not actual criminals - if the FBI didn't give them advice in your scenario would those people ever actually break the law?

      More importantly in this case the FBI are knowingly and deliberately acquiring and analysing information that has been obtained illegally, that again is morally, and probably legally wrong

      1. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

        Re: So what?

        It's not just morally wrong - I dunno about "the law" in the USA, but in the UK there is a crime of incitement. You can't suggest to people that they should go and lynch the local pediatrician, and niether can you incite people to hack into computers.

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Pen-y-gormless Re: So what?

          "....but in the UK there is a crime of incitement...." Please go read the relevant laws before you make yourself look any more stupid. The FBI gave them targets, they did not need to incite them as the morons were already criminals intent on committing more crimes, and would have committed more crimes whether the FBI gave them targets or not.

      2. Random Coolzip

        Re: So what?

        Not only is it morally wrong, it violates the charter of the FBI, which limits it to domestic operations only. Foreign intelligence is the purview of the CIA (or NSA).

        1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Random Foolzip Re: So what?

          "Not only is it morally wrong, it violates the charter of the FBI, which limits it to domestic operations only....." The FBI was involved in a domestic investigation of a gang of criminal hackers. Where was Sabu organizing his crew from, Outer Mongolia?

          ".....Foreign intelligence is the purview of the CIA (or NSA)." So please do show the 'intelligence work' here. Go get the list of targets, check the data lifted, then show how any of it would be of use to the FBI. Or, better still, take off the tinfoil and go borrow a clue from somewhere.

      3. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: The Dolt Re: So what?

        "Yes the FBI encouraging people and giving support to people to commit a crime is morally wrong if the drug smugglers are currently only 'wanna-be' not actual criminals....." Sabu and his chums were already career criminals, no matter how much you want to baaaaah-lieve they were just innocents 'framed by The Man'.

        "....if the FBI didn't give them advice in your scenario would those people ever actually break the law?...." Are you really that stupid? They KNOWINGLY committed criminal acts, it doesn't matter if the FBI gave them enough rope to hang themselves. Go look up 'sting operations'.

        "....More importantly in this case the FBI are knowingly and deliberately acquiring and analysing information that has been obtained illegally, that again is morally, and probably legally wrong". Yeah, so where is your evidence if that? More to the point, if the data was of value to the FBI, why would they hold onto the evidence and them use it in a public trial? Try THINKING.

    3. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: So what?

      The FBI is NOT the foreign intelligence service of the US. That's the CIAs job. That's what.

      Nor are they the world police. That's Interpols job.

      The US is so FUBAR it has become more Kafka than Kafka.

      But this IS quite revealing. Especially in how long the rest of the world is going to put up with this bullshit.

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Thickofreako Re: So what?

        Please see the previous replies I posted to your equally deluded sheeple buddies, Irongut, Pen-y-Gormless and Foolzip.

  3. Alexander Hanff 1

    I witnessed Sabu "persuading" people carry out criminal attacks on 3rd parties. I have given several statements to the press since his role as an FBI informer was made public. He was an agent provocateur pure and simple.

    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Alexander Hanff 1

      "I witnessed Sabu "persuading" people carry out criminal attacks on 3rd parties....." So you are admitting that Sabu and chums carried out these crimes?

      ".....I have given several statements to the press since his role as an FBI informer was made public....." Yeah, so what were you doing associating with Sabu and chums? Oh dear, did your ego stop to think before you gave those 'statements', or were you too busy living the dream of being a 'rebel'? Were you as quick to give a statement to the police or any of the lawyers defending the Lulztwits, or was the moral duty of providing evidence not as important as bigging yourself up in the meejuh?

      "....He was an agent provocateur pure and simple." Matters not one iota if the people then went on to willingly do the crimes. Please do try and pretend the rest of the Lulztwits were being coerced or blackmailed by Sabu, and that they weren't all willing and career criminals before Sabu got turned.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I've often seen the tin-hat brigade claim American TLAs carry out false flag operations... now I know what they mean... the FBI gets some civilians to hack foriegn government webites and use that as the source of the information that they really got from the NSA.. no?

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      You're almost there.

      No, most US agencies actively work against each other or at best, begrudgingly cooperate with the least amount of effort they can get away with.

      In this case, they were using infamous hackers as their cover. False flag 101. The more successful false flags use entire countries, i.e. WMDs that are never found, uranium cake that didn't exist, gas warfare that was actually carried out by paid terrorists, neo-nazi "patriots", etc.

      Welcome to the New World Order. You WILL be sacrificed whether you volunteered or not if you don't watch your step.

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: Thickofreako

        "....Welcome to the New World Order. You WILL be sacrificed whether you volunteered or not if you don't watch your step." Seriously, loosen up the tinfoil, take a deep breath, then try looking at the matter calmly and rationally.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Thickofreako

          "Seriously, loosen up the tinfoil, take a deep breath, then try looking at the matter calmly and rationally."

          Pretty funny, given the nature and style of pretty much all of your posts, Matt.

          1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
            Pirate

            Re: Andrew Fernie Re: Thickofreako

            You are entitled to your opinion of my opinion and I would defend your right to an opinion, regardless of how little value I might put in your opinion. But it seems far too many liberals will only support your right to an opinion if it agrees with theirs, regardless of the merit of any supporting argument. Disagreement is healthy, socially evolutionary and democratic, whereas suppression of dissent is none of the above.

            PS: And, yet again, you posted no actual argument....

            1. Down not across Silver badge

              Re: Andrew Fernie Thickofreako

              You are entitled to your opinion of my opinion and I would defend your right to an opinion, regardless of how little value I might put in your opinion. But it seems far too many liberals will only support your right to an opinion if it agrees with theirs, regardless of the merit of any supporting argument. Disagreement is healthy, socially evolutionary and democratic, whereas suppression of dissent is none of the above.

              Quite. Unfortunately, whereas you have had posts with supporting arguments (whether I or anyone else agrees with those arguments is beside the point), you undermine it all by childish derogatory comments.

              This of course is just my opinion and as such no doubt no value to you.

              1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                FAIL

                Re: Down and out Re: Andrew Fernie Thickofreako

                ".....This of course is just my opinion and as such no doubt no value to you." Mainly because, just like Thicko's posts, yours is argument-free, and equates to nothing more than whining about being laughed at. Loosen up the tinfoil, grow thicker skin and get a clue.

  5. Down not across Silver badge

    Brazilian?

    "Hammond, together with a Brazilian hacker using the nickname Havittaja, broke into..."

    Perhaps. That nickname (assuming three letters are missing their umlauts) would however suggest a certain nordic country. Of course there is no reason a brazilian couldn't borrow a foreign word to use as a nickname.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Brazilian?

      I think you'll find that quite a few Germans emigrated to south america in the 1940's.

      1. Down not across Silver badge

        Re: Brazilian?

        Germany is not a nordic country. Should I say scandinavian to make it clearer?

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