back to article Windows 8.1, which you probably haven't upgraded to yet, Already obsolete

Microsoft is urging users running Windows 8.1 to update their systems soon, since the company plans to drop patch support for early versions of the operating system. Redmond said that after May it would only issue updates for systems running the Windows 8.1 Update release and later. The move means that Windows 8.1 systems …

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  1. Greg J Preece

    I installed it on my laptop on release day, and the bugger killed all net access from TIFKAM. Still not been able to restore it, so I'm sure as shit not installing the update on my desktop.

    1. Greg J Preece

      Sod's law that shortly after posting that, I started my laptop up to find that my TIFKAM apps have net access again. (Don't care what anyone says, I like some of the TIFKAM stuff.) Haven't got the most radical UI changes yet, but I now have close/minimise icons for Metro apps now, which is welcome. Couldn't care less about getting the Start Menu back to be honest.

      1. LDS Silver badge

        It's funny how those MS haters hastily upvoted your first post but never care to read your correction...

        1. Spoonsinger

          Re:-"MS haters".

          It's a good point, however 8.1 does seem to have some weird problems when it comes to internal security settings for TIFKAM. My 8.1 upgrade went totally smoothly when it was released, however back in January all the TIFKAM stuff just stopped working, (including the store). Having searched the net for appropriate solutions and none of them worked, (MS site being somewhat useless - because everything works from their point of view or they say just do a clean install because your setup is not our problem)

          The solution was to download the system internals process monitor. Start a monitoring run - filtering just registry accesses. Then start a TIFKAM application which wasn't running, (store first). Stop the monitor as soon as the TIFKAM app failed and look through the logs for all the 'DENIED ACCESS' events. Then manually change the access rights on those registry settings which were being denied. Repeat for the rest of the apps. Took pigging ages, (but wasn't willing to give up/do a reinstall because I like the machine the way it is).

    2. big_D Silver badge

      I've updated all of our machines (2010 Sony laptop, 2011 Sony laptop and a Sumsung tablet), no problems to report here. Have you looked at security settings? Some firewall problem?

      If the desktop side is working, then it sounds like firewall or security rules might be a good place to start looking.

      Edit: posted reply to your first message, before reading your second. Any idea what caused it?

      1. Greg J Preece

        No idea at all, I'm afraid. I read a blog post or two that alluded to some security settings getting flipped in the bowels of the system, far beyond the GUI, and Fiddler being required to re-enable access, but the fix looked a little dodgy to me. Fortunately it seems to be OK now.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      clarification

      If you are saying TIFKAM internet access doesn't work anymore, change the network settings from public to private, I had that problem on several systems of mine.

  2. Arachnoid
    FAIL

    So........

    From giving patches to one and all [even unlicensed version of windows] to prevent mass internet mayhem we have now decided to give it to the few who do have a valid license.Lets see how long that one runs its course.

  3. Roger Greenwood

    Confused?

    I certainly am.

    Unless the reporting is completely wrong, this sounds like the best way to tick off your customers I have ever heard.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Confused?

      And still they come.

    2. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

      Re: Confused?

      Microsoft is always correct. If you are dissatisfied, the fault lies with you.

    3. Mikel

      Re: Suspicious haste

      There must be something seriously wrong with the pre-update version.

      1. Daniel von Asmuth
        Gimp

        Re: Suspicious haste

        If nothing is seriously wrong with Windows, then Windows XP must be ideal: no more updates to install!

        I wonder how you could upgrade your Windows XP, if you haven't yet. Buy Vista on the second-hand black market, and run upgrade. Same thing for 7, then 8, then 8.1, but if you dont install that update Real Soon Now, you will always be vulnerable and miss out on Windows 9 and beyond for ever.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @roger

      "Unless the reporting is completely wrong, this sounds like the best way to tick off your customers I have ever heard."

      Agreed. However, this is Windows 8 we're talking about to pardon me for wondering: what customers would that be? ;)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @roger

        Microsoft is on first name basis with ALL their Win8 customers.

        They keep the names on a napkin in the sales department.

    5. Number6
      Coat

      Re: Confused?

      Unless the reporting is completely wrong, this sounds like the best way to tick off your customers I have ever heard.

      You mean apart from Windows ME and Vista? (And Windows 8 itself, given how well it's doing in the popularity stakes.)

  4. Frank N. Stein

    "the issue is likely only to affect a small subset of Redmond's customers..." Yes. This will only affect the 5% of Windows users who are running Windows 8. Everyone else can just relax. A rather cunning plan to try and get Windows users to re-enable automatic updates. The other side of it is that, Windows 8 is about to have a pretty short life, as more is cobbled onto 8.1

    1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

      Oh no, it's more arsed than that

      From the linked technet blog:

      "For those users who are still using Windows 8 and Windows 2012 (and not Windows 8.1 and Windows 2012 R2) you are unaffected and will continue to receive updates as normal."

      So the only hosed folks are the ones who went through the painfully huge download like a relative of mine did on his painfully slow internet connection hoping his new Win 8 laptop would get better* under 8.1.

      *It did, for small values of better which is why it's now running Win 7.

  5. Someone Else Silver badge
    FAIL

    Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

    "Since Microsoft wants to ensure that customers benefit from the best support and servicing experience and to coordinate and simplify servicing across both Windows Server 2012 R2, Windows 8.1 RT and Windows 8.1, this update will be considered a new servicing/support baseline," the company said.

    Really? I mean, fuckin' really?!?

    "Since Microsoft wants to ensure that customers benefit from the best support and servicing experience can't be arsed to do a proper job maintaining our shit and to coordinate and simplify servicing across both Windows Server 2012 R2, Windows 8.1 RT and Windows 8.1 because maintaining backward compatibility is hard, and is fast becoming beyond our capabilities, this update will be considered a new servicing/support baseline," the company said.

    There, fixed it for ya. <sigh>

    1. Daniel B.

      Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

      It's even easier: They're giving vanilla Win8 the Vista treatment. IIRC Vista was EOL'd shortly after 7 came out. Probably justified as Vista remained in the under-10% range for most of its life, and 7 was basically "fixed Vista" so it made more sense for businesses to simply upgrade to 7 as "compatibility issues" weren't a problem if you already had Vista.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

        Yeah, but there is no in place upgrade from XP (which everyone was actually running at the time) to Win7, so you had to acquire VISTA, upgrade, then upgrade to 7 (or do a fresh install. I think there was a migrate data tool).

      2. Kunari

        Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

        Wonder what would happen if someone re-installs from the base Win8 media?

        1. southpacificpom
          Windows

          Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

          Install and reboot,

          Windows is updating, please do not turn off your computer...

          Install and reboot,

          Windows is updating, please do not turn off your computer...

          Install and reboot,

          Windows is updating, please do not turn off your computer...

          Install and reboot,

          Windows is updating, please do not turn off your computer...

          Install and reboot,

          Windows is updating, please do not turn off your computer...

          Repeat, ad infinitum...

          1. John Tserkezis

            Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

            "Install and reboot,

            Windows is updating, please do not turn off your computer..."

            I know you say that in jest, but it's really like that. I have a work-supplied RT tablet, but never use it, as I can do more with my own laptop, and there is only a moderate tradeoff in weight. So, the win8 tablet never gets used aside from bringing it out every so often to do updates.

            I haven't actually used it for anything productive, it's just been updates, not only that, they're BIG updates every bloody time.

            This is what I'm eating my monthly internet bandwidth for?

          2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

            Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

            And then do it all over again as the different incantations (deliberate pun) of .Net get updated.

            Not everyone has the luxury of WSUS you know.

            What a load of old cock.

            MS couldn't organise a ... you know the rest.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

            Download 700meg patch and reboot, else reinstall and rebot.

        2. Chika
          Devil

          Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

          Always assuming that you had the base install media to do it with, of course.

        3. mediavets

          Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

          I would like to know too. I have an unused Windows 8 Pro license that I don't yet wish to use.

      3. BlueGreen

        Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

        A small pair of anecdotes about vista.

        Tried it on a mate's machine. Shut down, and it took a few minutes of it just spinning before I decided it must have crashed and physically pulled the plug. Found out later it took about six minutes to shut itself down, you just had to leave it, and leave it, and leave it...

        While there I also downloaded a smallish (few dozen meg) file. I had the option to get the compressed or uncompressed file. Both had the same contents. Obviously the zipped one is better, less bandwidth, be a nice net citizen etc. so I grabbed that one and it took just a few seconds. Then I tried to unzip it. Baaaad. The progress meter hovered around 40K *PER SECOND* for the unzipping. It would literally have been many times faster to download the unzipped file than get the zipped and unzip it locally. What a crock.

        1. Hans 1 Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

          That must have been Vista pre-SP1 ... and, no, downloading the unzipped file would not have been any faster ... I remember timing file duplication: a text file containing "Hello World", just that, no formatting - simple ASCII text (without double quotes ") - would take a whopping 5 minutes and 30 seconds to duplicate (left click, right click > Copy, right click Paste).

          They "fixed" it in SP1, it would only take 30 seconds - it takes millis on my underpowered, non-Vista-able Linux box, oh, and a click less - like on Windows XP and lower, but there you go. In Windows 7, it still takes like 100 times longer than on my Linux box, w7 on SSD vs Linux on PATA!! - not sure what it is doing.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

            "not sure what it is doing."

            It is long time ago now but I remember looking at what explorer was up to during a network copy across a slow link. It was doing something like:

            1. Initial view of the remote directory - copy all of the files (including all content) across the nice slow link to local memory - perhaps to just get the filenames/sizes to show in explorer

            2. Right click the remote file you want to copy - copy all of the file (including content) AGAIN across the slow link to local memory - getting properties maybe?

            3. Right click paste local - copy all of the file (including content) AGAIN across the slow link before pasting it.

            It was something like that anyway - at least 3 copies for every one. Don't know if local copies are the same but probably. It still does something similar on later versions.

            There was also something about explorer looking one level of directory down, I think during step 1 above, and if there were any zip files, unzipping them all too, despite them being on another machine and nobody looking at them.

            1. Brenda McViking

              Re: Does ANYBODY still believe this tripe?

              A program I've heard of that overcomes the copying issue is teracopy www.codesector.com/teracopy

              Of course this falls into the "microsoft messed it up and there is no way in hell that in a sane world this program should *need* to exist." But hey. It solves the problem because microsoft won't, so I'm leaving the link here in case anyone has need of it.

  6. Daniel B.
    Trollface

    But the real question is...

    Will this new update bring up the Start Menu? At least it seems that TIFKAM apps now get windowed mode...

    1. Daniel von Asmuth
      Facepalm

      No

      I heard a future update may return the Start menu. Why not stick with Windows 7? How long will *that* be supported?

  7. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
    Windows

    No

    I would not touch Windows 8 with a bargepole, thanks anyway.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No

      Having tried it, I'm surprised you'd get THAT close.

      Maybe you plan on having someone else holding the bargepole.

      Someone you don't like

    2. Vociferous

      Re: No

      Possibly with a sharpened bargepole.

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: No

        "Possibly with a sharpened bargepole."

        Or the type of modified bargepole known as a spar torpedo

        Icon, well, because that's what a spar torpedo does

    3. southpacificpom
      FAIL

      Re: No

      Alas, the bargepole would BSOD and fall apart if if got anywhere near Win8

    4. Old Tom

      Re: No

      Why not?

      When my old machine died, it was with a little resignation and trepidation that I had to take on Windows 8.1. Turns out I've had no problem with it at all.

      No start menu? I don't give a toss, it took seconds to create my own toolbar (which I called 'Start') containing shortcuts to all my utilities. BONUS- it only contains the ones I want!

      Shitty touch-centric UI - never see it, it boots straight to desktop.

      It even wakes in a couple of seconds from hibernation. Oh, and I like the charm bar.

      The only problem I've encountered so far is that I had to lie to it about the model of my ancient parallel printer that's connected to my NAS via a magic parallel/usb cable.

    5. Chika
      Happy

      Re: No

      Nor would I. But then I don't think that Windows 8 has a bargepole-touch-sensitive interface anyway.

    6. Avatar of They
      FAIL

      Re: No

      I wouldn't touch it with YOUR bargepole. No offence, but I am not evening considering using mine on it.

      1. Will Godfrey Silver badge

        Re: No

        I emphatically fail to disagree with these comments.

    7. Dave K Silver badge

      Re: No

      Microsoft got themselves into this mess and only have themselves to blame. Windows 8 was a decidedly half-baked release. Even the biggest fan of TIFKAM has to admit that the shutdown process for example was ridiculously convoluted and the whole interface was very immature.

      This has meant MS scrabbling to release updated versions to fix Windows 8's shortcomings, and now MS is stuck in the hole of either supporting multiple versions of its OS, or discontinuing support for them. If they'd bothered to ensure that TIFKAM was properly implemented in the first place, they wouldn't have this issue.

      And of course, a lot of Windows 8's problems from a perception point of view are down to the "stick" approach that MS used to push TIFKAM. They wanted in on mobile, so they made a deliberate decision to try and *force* it onto everyone. They went out of their way to disable registry hacks for beta versions of Windows 8 that re-enabled the start menu and decided that hitting with the stick was the right approach. You WILL use our new, convoluted and immature interface whether you like it or not.

      Call me picky, but if there's one thing I DETEST, it's a company dictating to me exactly how I should use their products, exactly how I must use their interface, etc, all to try and drive that company into markets which do not concern me. The result is a deep personal hatred for Windows 8. Not just from a technical/interface point of view, but from a point of view of what it stands for.

      The only thing MS can do to get around this really is to accept that Windows 8 and the stick approach has been a failure, add more options and customisability back into Windows (which they are slowly doing), and then kill off the Windows 8 brand altogether.

      Like I say, all their own fault. the more you hit with the stick, the more people will resist as a matter of principle. And now with multiple versions to support or abandon, they're riling up even the adopters.

  8. Tom 35 Silver badge

    Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

    Windows 8.1 Update?

    What Windows 8.1 Update? No not a Windows 8.1 Update. It's THE Windows 8.1 Update. But there are lots of things in my windows update history called Windows 8.1 Update?

    You would think that an update that "is a new baseline" would be at least 8.1.1 and there would be some way to tell it's installed other then there is a magnifying glass on your not-metro screen.

    What are they going to call the next one? Windows 8.1 MoreUpdate? Windows 8.1 Update Again?

    1. Fibbles

      Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

      Windows 8.1 Update 2: Electric Boogaloo

    2. moiety

      Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

      Bride of Windows 8.1 Update

      Son of Windows 8.1 Update

      The Return of Windows 8.1 Update

      Back to the Windows 8.1 Update

      Windows 8.1 Update Revisited

      The Night of the Living Windows 8.1 Update

      Attack of the Windows 8.1 Update

      Debbie Does Windows 8.1 Update

      ...lots of possibilities.

      1. David Pollard

        Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

        Windows Reloaded

        Windows Revolutions

        1. Gray
          Trollface

          Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

          Waiting patiently for the Windows 8.1 Final Update ...

          soon thereafter to be followed by the final, final patched Final Update.

          Otherwise referred to as Windows 8.1 FU ... and Windows 8.1 FU2.

        2. Bob Asic

          Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

          How about Windows eXPerience or XP for short?

      2. Paul J Turner

        Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

        Windows 8.1 Update: The Reboot

        ...Oh, wait...

      3. Moeluk

        Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

        The day after Windows Update. (sure to send chills to the spine of every sysadmin)

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

        > ...lots of possibilities.

        With the size of the update, I think I got the Windows 8.1 Update Extended Edition.

        Whenever I run this VM, all it seems to do is want to reboot to update.

      5. Chika

        Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

        The Windows 8.1 Update Strikes Back

        Windows 8.1 Update Muyo (No Need for Windows 8.1 Update)

        Gone with the Windows 8.1 Update

        Or why not just Windows 8++?

      6. Yugguy

        Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

        Windows 8.1 ate my hamster

        Windows 8.1 bomber found on moon.

        Windows 8.1 lands on sun.

      7. Anonymous Bullard
        Coat

        Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

        Honey, Windows 8.1 Update Shrunk the Disk!

        Windows 8.1 Update and the Prisoner of Microsoft

        National Lampoons OS: Windows 8.1 Update

        My big fat Windows 8.1 Update

        The good, the bad, and the Windows 8.1 update

        Ice Age 8: The Windows 8.1 Update

        The Windows 8.1 Update massacre

        A bug's life: The Windows 8.1 update

        All produced by the 20th Century OS

        1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

          So when is the year of Windows on the drektop? <- that's humor, that is.

      8. Pookietoo

        Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

        I Still Know What You Did Last Windows 8.1 Update

        Predator Versus Windows 8.1 Update

        Windows 8.1 Update the Thirteenth

    3. Eddy Ito Silver badge

      Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

      Well, they clearly couldn't go to Windows 8.2 and if they went to 8.1.1 there would be a version mismatch with Windows Phone which is slowly crawling toward 8.1. How could they go forward and say that they are making one Windows experience for all your devices if they are different versions of Windows? You and I know the numbers are arbitrary but imagine the confusion who gets an 8.2 RT tablet or 8.2 laptop and it's visually, more or less, the same as his 8.1 phone? If they skip 8.1 on the phone and hop directly to 8.2 people will wonder what happened to WP8.1 and if the NSA insisted on sneaking something into 8.2 that caused the code jump or worse.

      They could take a page from 95 and call it 8.1 OSR2 or from the great 98 and call it 8.1 Second Edition. Meh, 8.1 SP1 would be fine but what I'd really like them to call it is Windows 8.1 Take 2.

    4. Belardi

      Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

      No shit. Calling it an "upate" is one of the dumbest things ever. That why we HAVE version numbers so people KNOW what they are using.

      How about 8.2? Then have an 8.3, etc... you would think a COMPUTER company would know how to do this.

      Apple did this with the iPad... with the iPad4.. er "New iPad" or was that the iPad3 - oh yeah, apple called it "3rd Gen iPad" as "iPad 3" was confusing? So when you need tech support or need to sell it... you have a "used new iPad for sale"?!

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        Coat

        @ Belardi -- Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

        [...]you would think a COMPUTER company would know how to do this.

        A computer company likely would, but this is Microsoft, we're talking about here. Remember, this is the company whose firs version of a new operating system was labelled 3.1 (Anybody remember the first release of NT?)

        (Actually, the possibilities for rejoinder to Belardi's quote are almost endless...but I shall restrain myself, and allow others to take up the torch.)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @ Belardi -- Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

          There was windows 1.0.

          I used windows 2.0 and windows 386.

          I bought windows 3.0

          For a few years, windows was pretty good.

        2. Long John Brass Silver badge

          Re: @ Belardi -- Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

          It was then known as Microsoft OS/2 V1 & V2

          Then MS & IBM has a spat & went their different ways

          NT 3 was next out the door in that OS line

          So NT 1.x & 2.x were called OS/2 v1 & v2; I might be wrong but I believe OS/2 warp was OS/2 v3

    5. Belardi

      Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

      Coming soon in a year:

      Windows 8.1 Update Plus GTX Special Z Edition with Halo theme

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

      This is the April update. Windows 8.1 updates are now apparently being given girls names. Presumably it will be followed by updates called May, June and Doris.

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

        I heard someone at MS proposed

        Windows 8.1 Falls On Sword Silently

        as a final option on the roadmap, instead of FU2, but management didn't like the acronym.

    7. plrndl
      Linux

      Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

      Update of Windows 8.1 Update?

    8. Dick Pountain

      Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

      No Country for Old Windows XP Users

    9. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who at Microsoft is making up the names... and why do they still have a job?

      Windows "8" is Windows v6.2

      Windows "8.1" is Windows v6.3

      Windows "8.1" Update is also Windows v6.3

      Will Windows "9" actually be v7 or Windows v6.4?

      What's going on at Microsoft?

  9. Roo
    Trollface

    Sorry.

    It strikes me that Munich were awfully fortunate to avoid the Windows Vista, 7, then 8 migration path. When I look at it that way it's hard to fault the folks clinging to XP as it sinks below the waves.

    1. southpacificpom
      Devil

      Re: Sorry.

      Sssssssssh, Munich are quietly patching OpenSSL...

      1. busycoder99

        Re: Sorry.

        Yes it took them less than 10 minutes and they didn't even have to reboot. Unlike the poor souls who wasted their bandwidth and countless hours updating to the Windows 8.1 only to be told to shove a few weeks later.

        1. LDS Silver badge

          Re: Sorry.

          If they had not to revok and replace or their digital certificates and change all passwords...

  10. Vociferous

    Waitwhat?

    So... let me get this straight: Win8 users must update now, or be orphaned?!

    Does this mean that a) Redmond is fed up with Win8 users recalcitrance at using the Microsoft Store, b) because Win8 is such a hopeless turd, fixing it requires replacing most of it, effectively turning it to Win9, or c) Microsoft wants to drop Update and run everything through Microsoft Store?

    1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Waitwhat?

      Or more likely, make a complete clusterf**k of win8 and its updates so that everyone is so relieved when win9 is released later in the year.

      Of course, those who look closely at win9 will notice its just win7 with a changed title page .....

      1. Belardi

        Re: Waitwhat?

        Win9 will not be Win7. Win9 will be based off of Win8 with more UI changed... at least the TIFKAM apps will run in a window design... plan on it being just as ugly as Win8.

        1. hplasm Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: Waitwhat?

          In other news: Win9 ALREADY obsolete!

          1. wowfood

            Re: Waitwhat?

            Maybe it'll actually be a new version of windows?

            I mean so far we've had to pay for

            Vista

            Windows 7 (vista 2)

            Windows 8 (Vista 3)

            So maybe 9 will actually be a step forward.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Waitwhat?

              No.

              Windows 9 will be worse than Windows 8. Metro apps will become desktop applications, then normal desktop applications will eventually be eradicated, as part of the Metro teams' "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" strategy.

              You all know you'll have to upgrade sooner or later. You're just prolonging it. They've got you by the ballmers. And you can't escape to Linux, you need Windows - you're already locked in. The Windows 8 shills on here have got it right.

    2. heyrick Silver badge

      Re: Waitwhat?

      I think some middle management people went out and had a party when XP reached its final end-of-life date. One of them suggested bringing to an end anything else that is annoying or difficult. Expect soon, everything to be ended. Hey, presto, no more support problems or compatibility issues!

      Oh, that version of Windows we just released? We don't support that these days...

  11. Vince

    Interesting. I would have upgraded to 8.1 and by definition 8.1 update 1 except we have discovered it leaves remote app support broken, causing apps to just keep stealing focus all the time. The problem is a major ordeal.

    I wouldn't mind except I am running server 2012 for our server side, so you'd think it would have been detected and fixed since we're not talking about ancient releases now are we?????

    Fix that MS and we'll update!

    1. Belardi

      There is an update to that problem.

      Install Windows 7.

  12. RonWheeler

    Still beats the alternaives

    Yeah, Win 8 sucks. Alternatives? Overpriced walled garden Orchard or endlessly installing iterations of C++ / C# / PERL libraries in polar fish-eating land.

    1. Greg J Preece

      Re: Still beats the alternaives

      endlessly installing iterations of C++ / C# / PERL libraries in polar fish-eating land.

      .NET Framework never updates? You never get C++ runtime updates in Windows? That's news to me.

      1. Anonymous Bullard

        Re: Still beats the alternaives

        .NET Framework never updates? You never get C++ runtime updates in Windows?

        Oh it does.

        The updates are large and frequent. That's why these people disable updates.

        1. Richard 12 Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Still beats the alternaives

          No Windows developer in their right mind uses .NET.

          We tried it once, for one project. Never Again.

          1. Greg J Preece

            Re: Still beats the alternaives

            I started learning C# / .NET 4 in earnest recently so I can leap across to another project, and I quite like some of the stuff in there. The concepts behind the CLR, CTS, etc seem sound enough, and as an experiment I wrote an interface in Visual Studio to control an LED sign over a serial connection - 6 lines of code! Seemed pretty nice to me.

            What about it drove you potty? Advance warning is always appreciated. ;-)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Still beats the alternaives

      At the moment, Apple and its walled garden is extremely stable. I'm betting that the rising MacBook sales and the frustrations expressed here are pleasing them a lot.

      I'm sure their turn at self flagellation will come.

      Over in Penguin land, the canonical species (S. Africa variant 'jackass') isn't doing much better with Unity. I gave up on Ubuntu (the brown polished turd) for CentOS several years ago so my smug git grin is genuine.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: Still beats the alternaives

        OSX is only stable because Apple have just broken EVERYTHING so nothing works.

        Broken is stable.

        I support some OpenGL applications that run on Win32 and OSX since the days of Windows XP and whatever OSX it was that ran on both Intel and PPC around that time.

        So far almost every 'named' OSX update has broken something, Apple's support of OpenGL in particular is horrendous.

        The only thing that's ever broken in the Win32 version are the drivers for external hardware, which have had to be x64'd.

        (Although Windows 8's driver model is a complete and total screwup. We are NOT paying MS to 'certify' a bloody INF that points straight to a built-in driver!)

    3. Hans 1 Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Still beats the alternaives

      Compared to the .net fiasco ... you have .net 3.1, you'd think it could run 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0 .net stuff, hell, no, what did you expect?? You want to run those 5 apps, need to get .net 1, 1.1, 2, 3, and 3.1 runtimes ...

      As for retrieving the updates, and dependencies, no problem, search microsoft website for the runtimes, Windows Genuine Advantage crap needs to get updated first, 3 reboots later and you still have to install 3 and 3.1 ...

      Powershell, the only thing that "sort of" works, as I have already said, it does not even do regex properly like VBS, Perl, etc no, it does some bastardized globex.... "*" means ".*" - so great.

      Then, depending on version, it is either mta or sta by default, thanks ... who would care ? In mta mode it cannot call sta code ? WTF ???? Guyz ???? Leave the industry !

      Compare that to package management on Linux anytime, mate. I use apt, others aptitude, yum, or synaptic/Yast2 (idiot^H^H^H^H^Hmouse-friendly), whatever floats your boat.

      Thy atheist!

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh no. A fixpack, delivered via Windows Update to Windows 8.1, is a prerequisite to apply future fixes *to Windows 8.1*. Cue sputtering rage about Windows 8, forced upgrades, things-were-better-at-7, and Microsoft in general.

    Sp predictable.

  14. Graeme5

    So people who have turned Automatic Updates off (to manual) will not get future updates. Sounds about right, isn't that what you'd expect?

    The only trap some people may fall into I guess is if they have disabled 'hidden' Windows 8.1 Update after the initial issues, now even if they have automatic updates on they won't get them.

  15. regadpellagru
    FAIL

    Dear Customer

    Thank you for purchasing Windows 8.

    We are sure you appreciated all of its features.

    We want to assure you we took a lot of pleasure to screw you. We are looking forward for your forced purchase of our incoming product, Windows 9, due next year.

  16. bigfoot780

    why in the store

    Why on earth 8 to 8.1 wasn't in windows update I have no idea.

    1. Hans 1 Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: why in the store

      Cupertino ? You know, that famous company everybody is copying like hell, because they managed to fill their bank account quicker than anything else on this planet.

      I agree, silly fu from both ...

    2. poopypants

      Re: why in the store

      I have one machine that I cannot "upgrade" from 8.0 to 8.1 because of a mysterious problem, despite being a legitimate copy of Windows.

      1. PabloPablovski

        Re: why in the store

        I'm in a similar position. I can't upgrade to 8.1 because my, admittedly elderly, desktop apparently doesn't meet the No eXecute bit BIOS security spec, despite having been able to install 8.0 quite happily and despite a CoreInfo check confirming that it *does* support NX. So, essentially I paid £25 to Microsoft for an O/S that was supported for less than a year after purchase.

        Fortunately, the Linux distro world isn't quite so euthanasically-inclined and I've been able to install the lovely and slick kubuntu 14.04, and am happily dual booting.

        Since my only real use for Win 8 these days is to manage the g/f's iPod.... well, I'll sure miss her.

    3. Vociferous

      Re: why in the store

      > Why on earth 8 to 8.1 wasn't in windows update I have no idea

      To teach users to use Microsoft Store. Users have been unwilling to do so, and the store is supposed to be Microsoft's future cash cow.

  17. eJ2095

    Windows 8 = Marmite

    Either you love it or hate it...

    Running 8.1 my self with classic shell just to have a play about with.

    Its not done anything wierd yet...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 8 = Marmite

      Running 8.1 my self with classic shell

      so, i guess you don't like it either.

  18. John P

    It's really disappointing to see that after the 8.1 update was so easy and smooth, that they release update 1 as 5 separately installed Windows updates. It's ridiculous. In some ways, Update 1 is a bigger update than 8.1 so would've been deserving of 8.2 in my opinion. Deliver it via the store and you've got an easy upgrade experience. If you really need to use Windows Update, do it as 1 or at most 2 updates, not 5.

    Dropping support for Windows 8.1 if you don't go to update 1 is also crazy. According to the lifecycle page, Windows 8.1 has the same lifecycle as Windows 8, but then they come out and say you won't get updates on a Windows version that is barely 6 months old if you don't install the Service Pack.

    I like Windows 8.1, I like the Start screen, I ignore TIFKAM same as most people. Where I think companies or individuals are being criticised unfairly, I will defend them, but good god Microsoft you do some damn indefensible things sometimes!

  19. Refugee from Windows
    Facepalm

    Can I quietly end it all?

    So if I rush off and buy a W8 machine the first thing it'll do after starting (and maybe several hours of chewing through, multiple reboots) is to then download a gi-normous patch, get my broadband to crawl to a halt, and then mess everything else I might have done between starting the new machine and it deciding to update?

    Maybe my ex-XP* machine will stay in action until enough of the caps on the mother board have died and then I'll just give up and just use Raspberry Pi's or something on a one machine per task basis. I have a Windows 7 machine, but just how long will it be before they drop this, but then I have tested it booting into Mint and I could live with that.

    XP will live on as a VM here for some time here. However if your supplier delivers you a product that requires major changes before you can actually use it, I would say that they've messed up.

    Maybe M$ ought to introduce a scaleable product range that doesn't require bleeding edge hardware, but I suspect it's beyond them, they've gone too far.

    *I couldn't make my mind up between Mint and Xubuntu so I've got dual boot.

    1. tabman
      FAIL

      Re: Can I quietly end it all?

      Hi Refugee from Windows,

      I am going to take a pount here that you haven't actually bought or used a brand new Win 8 machine then? I say this because I have two machines running 8.1 plus a few others running falvous as various as Raspian to Win 7). On buying the laptop with Win 8 preinstalled (Sony Vaio), I was up and running within 20 minutes (note that there wasn't any hours spent where the machine chewed through multiple reboots). The download and installation of Office 2013 took about another 20 minutes and the install of VS2013 via DVD took about another 40 minutes. Total: 1 Hr 20 Mins. The upgrade to Win 8.1 was via the store with no problems whatsoever. I think there were two reboots in total during that phase (getting the updates required before the upgrade to 8.1 required a reboot) then one reboot on install.

      Also bought a Win 8.1 pro disk for the desktop running 7. Popped it in the machnine and was complete within 30 minutes. Single reboot.

      On both machines the installation of stardock start8 took about 2 minutes. I boot to a nice desktop environment with a start menu in about 10 seconds (on a bad day).

      I probably should mention that while the desktop is pretty high specced the Sony Vaio isn't. I can run XP in a VM if I wished but thats what compatability mode is for.

      So, I call BS mate. You just haven't tried it have you?

      1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: Can I quietly end it all?

        And I in return call BS on you. I recently had the unpleasant experience of setting up and then upgrading a couple of ***BRAND NEW*** Win8 machines (one Dell and one Lenovo). Upgrading to Win8.1 was an unpleasant, time-consuming and irritating process. Doing a complete install of Linux Mint on the Lenovo took less time. And it was a better-looking and better-working system at the end of the process than either Win8 or Win8.1.

        MS needs to take a lesson from SoftKey of the early 1990's (or was it even as early as 1989?). They had one of those "integrated" packages called "PFS:First Choice"; at one point they developed and released an upgrade from v3.5 to v4.0. The v4.0 release was ***SO*** bad that they pulled v4 from release and re-issued v3.5. Subsequent releases were based off v3.5. MS needs to completely kill Win8 and just re-release Win7.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: Can I quietly end it all? @Jelabarre59

          >MS needs to completely kill Win8 and just re-release Win7.

          There are some and may more once the fun and games of Win 8.1 Update get out, that will be demanding a re-release of XP (32-bit with 64GB memory support) ...

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Can I quietly end it all?

      So if I understand it correctly, those members of the public who have gone out and purchased shiny new systems with Win8.0; will, come May-2014, be only marginally better off than those who ignored MS and stayed with XP which has only just dropped off support (Apr-2014) !

      This is because MS have refused to distribute the free Win8.1 update released in Nov-2103 via the Windows Update service - only making it available via the Store (given the size I'm sure many people are glad of this). Said update seems to be a necessary precursor to being able to install the new "Windows 8.1 Update" via the Windows Update service. So these people who in their ignorance have left Windows Update to run automatically, thinking it will keep their system uptodate, will no longer be receiving updates post May-2014 and assuming they have no problems will have no reason to install the free Win8.1 update before the Nov-2015 cut-off.

      I wonder whether MS are going to publicise this cut-off to the same extent as they have with XP's end-of-life (ie. both iin the media and via informational updates like the "Windows XP End of Support Notification" (KB2934207)...

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Gun, foot BANG

  21. billat29

    Letter to Windows customers

    Dear guys (oh! yes, gals),

    You haven't been playing the game you know? Keeping old versions of software going for ever and not paying for our latest offering. Did you know we have executive salaries to pay, stockholders to compensate and a few employees here and there.

    And, you know, we weren't happy about the moaning about XP support. And for all that crap about Windows 8. Have you forgotten that it is a great privilege to run Microsoft's latest and greatest?

    So we're going to fix it. The only thing we will support is the latest patched version of, well, the latest version. We'll kinda slide that one in with 8 and make it the standard model for 9. Once we've got that out of the way, then we'll be ready for the mandatory support subscription.

    Must fly, have a big yacht to buy.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 8 is the biggest pile of crap for updating I have ever seen.

    The stupid updates keeps crashing and require "fixing". Several updates I have had to install manually as its the only way they will install.

  23. LDS Silver badge

    They should have called it 8.1 SP1 and everybody would have been happy

    Call it 8.1 SP1 and everybody will be happy, can't understand why MS can't follow old practices everybody was fine with. Even before some pre-SP versions were no longer updated, IIRC it was a long time XP RTM and XP SP1 no longer received updated, only SP2 and SP3.

    Each SP is almost a separate version, it means mantaining each requires to fix different code branches and test them all - it may make sense do obsolete some.

  24. PeterM42
    Alert

    "...the issue is likely only to affect a small subset of Redmond's customers."

    "...the issue is likely only to affect a small subset of Redmond's customers." - Yes, they are Win 8.x users (all of 'em).

    The only update most users want is Windows 9. Unless, of course, it includes TIFKAM.

    For desktop/laptop users Win 7 is just great. It ain't broke - don't fix it.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 2014----

    Call it Windows 2014-04-15 14:48 and keep going.

    or Windows $datestamp $timestamp, figure the syntax for me, will ya?

    /coat

  26. Ron Christian

    oh dear we must move quickly

    I have a friend with a Windows 8 laptop. I must tell her to upgrade to 8.1 before time runs out.

    Oh wait, we ran system recovery on that machine, brought it back to Windows 7.

    Never mind.

  27. Goat Jam

    This sort of thing makes me appreciate the simple apt-get upgrade even more.

  28. David Glasgow

    So basically.....

    Eadon the now Unperson was right all along?

    He should be airbrushed back into the digital history of El Reg, and be rehabilitated from whatever Gulag to which he was banished.

  29. Pugie

    Win 8.1 update

    Hi, I just logged into my win 8.1 tablet as admin to change rights for my son. The system wanted to do some updates first so I left it run. When completed it re started, or at least it tried. Now I have the following as soon as the tablet starts and all it does is flash.

    Security version mismatch detected. Error code 0x10000001

    Any idea?

    Thanks

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