back to article Windows 7 outstrips Windows 8.x with small November growth

Windows 7 beat Windows 8.x in trench-war battle for growing market share in November. Netmarketshare stats for the month found Windows 7 had increased its share of desktops from 46.42 to 46.64 per cent of machines. This meant it outpaced the Windows 8.x family, which gained just 0.05 per cent. Windows 8 fell from 7.53 per …

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  1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Not pleasant reading for Redmond

    So they will bring forward the date of stopping sales and support of Win 7 to .... next week?

    Their whoe thrust is to get the world onto that pile of dog poo (IMHO) called Windows 8.1

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

      "Their [whole] thrust is to get the world onto that pile of dog poo (IMHO) called Windows 8.1".

      It shall not work. First choice (if you need Windows): Windows 7. First choice (otherwise): Linux. The sooner you start extricating yourself, the sooner you will be using free* software and the less it will cost you in the long run.

      * As in "speech" AND as in "beer".

      1. mmeier

        Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

        And what is the benefit of "Linux"?

        What distribution offers 10+ years of support at a price lower than Windows?

        What distribution runs the standard software most business users need?

        What distribution runs my games?

        What distribution supports my hardware and my usage pattern? Voice/pen?

        What distribution is better at running my developer tools than Windows? Technical reasons not "Osama bin Stallman spoke to me in a hashish dream reasons"

        Oh wait - none of them. So what IS the benefit once I strip fanatism and rhetorics?

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Devil

          Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

          > What distribution offers 10+ years of support at a price lower than Windows?

          You only need that support because you would be like a bound and gagged gimp left alone in the bad part of town otherwise.

          1. mmeier

            Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

            A FUD and lies from the Gnuliban, as always. Companies depend on applications and many of those are Windows only. So having a OS that does not change critical parts every 3 month and does not consider 5 years "long term stable" is a good idea for a successful enterprise.

            1. asdf Silver badge

              Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

              Nothing Enterprise loves more than vendor lock in. Someday soon Microsoft will be no better than Oracle. When the new sales start to stagnate the quickest first step to keep up that growth Wall St. loves is jacking up enterprise licensing fees. Microsoft has already started.

            2. asdf Silver badge

              Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

              Yep no business would ever rely on Linux in the enterprise except for the majority of the Fortune 500. Linux after all doesn't scale. What's that you say Google? Quick look over there. FUD FUD compare other options to sworn enemies of the west, etc.

              1. mmeier

                Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

                Oh companies do use it. They either have a huge support staff (Google i.e) and can do backports in house or buy RedHat/SuSe/Oracle and pay licence fees similar to that of a Windows box so they get 10+ years of guaranteed support for the OS version they install on the server

          2. Killraven

            Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

            @JEDIDIAH

            >> What distribution offers 10+ years of support at a price lower than Windows?

            >You only need that support because you would be like a bound and gagged gimp left alone in the bad part of town otherwise.

            I don't know anybody that's actually called Microsoft for support, with the exception of having to phone in for Activation/Licensing issues. Now, since support was the only thing you disputed, out of several reasons given why Linux is rather pointless in this discussion, under what circumstances will the average user ever consider Linux over Windows? The reality of life is that for 99%+ of users, the only debate in desktop operating systems is still Mac vs PC, and even there Mac is still a (growing) niche market.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @mmeier Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

          Right.That's why I have Windows 7. As soon as Microsoft will force me to "upgrade" to 8, I will learn Linux. And this is coming from a guy with a Windows 8 tablet and who is developing for the MS stack.

          Windows 8 is fine for a tablet, but I will not have that on my desktop, because my customers will not have it.

          I feel like Microsoft is making my life harder, not easier, lately. What's with the lack of color in Visual Studio, the terrible UI in Office 2013 and... Windows 8? It's not the right direction... Microsoft is going to lose the exact business customers you boast about.

          1. mmeier

            Re: @mmeier Not pleasant reading for Redmond

            And what is the difference in developing applications under Win8 to doing so under Win7? None or none at all? Nothing has changed there. Modern UI apps where added. If your customers do not want them - don't build them. My employer is a JAVA based company - and we don't do Android for the same reason.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @mmeier Not pleasant reading for Redmond

            "I feel like Microsoft is making my life harder, not easier, lately."

            A lot of people are getting that feeling recently. It's almost like a classic Greek tragedy: first Microsoft rocketed up into the skies, then it levelled off, and now it seems to be plunging back down to earth.

            "Those whom the gods wish to destroy, first they send mad".

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

          "What distribution is better at running my developer tools than Windows?"

          Given that you have presumably chosen to rely solely on developer tools that run on Windows... none.

          On the other hand, if you were to ask (with an open mind) "what distribution provides the best array of developer tools, at the best prices?" you might well come up with a different answer.

          Many years ago, I remember reading about how Indian elephant owners use tame elephants to help capture wild ones. It seems a shame that they would thus betray their fellow-creatures, but that's how they have been trained and conditioned and it's not their fault. Similarly, very large numbers of people worldwide have been sucked into the global Windows ecosystem, and now feel (in some cases rightly) that their interests coincide with those of Microsoft. Even if that is true, I feel that they should perhaps examine their consciences.

          1. mmeier

            Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

            As said - JAVA Developer. I do not care what OS it is as long as Eclipse, Netbeans and the other Java stuff works.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

              I do not care what OS it is as long as Eclipse, Netbeans and the other Java stuff works.

              Which is why you spend so much time bigging up Windows, and Windows 8 in particular.

              That all "the other Java stuff" works in various Linux distros better than under a Windows environment (easier to install, easier to upgrade, just all round easier to use, at least as far as Java can be said to be easy to use) seems to completely pass you by.

              For someone who doesn't care what OS it is, you spend an awful lot of time insulting anybody who doesn't like Microsoft and their blatantly abusive shit. Maybe you're being paid to look the other way?

              1. mmeier

                Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

                Yawn, the old "you work for MS defence", a FossTard classic. I have a strong dislike for LINUX and the fanatics like Stallman or Kroah Hartman and the FSF "commies". Otherwise (as stated before), I love a good SOLARIS server and likely used more OS than most Linux fans used distributions. Best for each task - Linux never was.

                And "easier to install" / upgrade? Where? All stuff these days come in nice packages that install easily on Windows. And some of the products needed (database - Oracle is a must) are very version dependent on Linux with the version it runs NOT the typical client kit

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

                  Yawn, the old "you work for MS defence", a FossTard classic.

                  Well let's face it, you make it easy.

                  I have a strong dislike for LINUX and the fanatics like Stallman or Kroah Hartman and the FSF "commies".

                  See what I mean? What the fuck have I got to do with Peado Stallman?

                  Ah yes. Nothing whatsoever. Going to call me a murderer whether I use ReiserFS or not, now? I notice you call anybody who doesn't dutifully hate the Penguins "fosstards" now, rather than "freetards". Got fed up of people throwing facts in your face about how much money those evil commie penguinistas spend on software?

                  And "easier to install" / upgrade? Where?

                  Clicky da little icon to install Eclipse. Done. Same with everything else. Of course I suppose the Windows 8 store is a completely different thing from a repository, and totally isn't a rip off of Apple's iStore which is a total rip off of.... repositories. You know, all your updates, under one icon. Click. Done. Or a "sudo apt-get upgrade" if you're the masochistic type, or talking via a 2400bps Telnet session from 20 years ago.

                  Best for each task - Linux never was.

                  See? You make it easy.

                  Keep on shilling.

        4. GrahamsTenPenneth

          Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

          What distribution offers 10+ years of support at a price lower than Windows?

          ---Ubuntu (LTS support + repositories still live from first version)

          ---RedHat/CentOS

          ---shall I continue?

          What distribution runs the standard software most business users need?

          ---Most mainstream distros (LibreOffice/CIFS/Wine)

          What distribution runs my games?

          ---You games ...? iPad? Xbox?

          What distribution supports my hardware and my usage pattern? Voice/pen?

          ---Linux kernel has wacom tablet support, TTS (espeak) and voice recognition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_recognition_in_Linux take your pick)

          What distribution is better at running my developer tools than Windows?

          --Your developer tools? Eclipse has fully support for MSVC development?

          Oh wait - none of them. So what IS the benefit once I strip fanatism and rhetorics?

          --Really which planet are you on?

          ---Pot calling the kettle black, maybe?

          1. mmeier

            Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

            Ubuntu guarantees 5 years not 10

            RedHead LTS is commercial

            Wine is extra effort so why use it instead of Windows? And business users need a LOT more than an office package. And quite a bit of office software demands MS Office.

            Games are a non runner than, none of the ones I use run on an XBox or an iThingy

            Wacom TABLET != Wacon penabled. The technology is different and drivers for the latter are "Alpha" at best. The support software is missing as well (no MS Journal etc) and the existing driver is "pen as mouse" not "pen with pressure support etc. NTrig is even less supported (and all Sony tablet/convertible units use NTrig)

            The Wiki article on Speech Recognition has nice phrases like "currently a push is under way" and "It is possible, though complicated, for advanced developers to create Linux speech recognition software by using existing packages derived from open-source projects". Hmm, Win7 does a decent speech recognition OOB and if I need more Dragon Natural is quickly installed. And both work offline without Aunti Google listening in. The commercial software aims at a different target and costs extra money.

            Dev tools BETTER than Windows was the request. If it is equal - why switch? Neither Eclipse nor Netbeans run better under Linux

            So - No Benefits in Linux, numerous problems for my use case. I stick to Win8 for my clients and Solaris for the servers

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

        See, to take one example out of many,

        http://www.infoworld.com/d/data-center/operating-systems-want-be-free-229529

        1. mmeier

          Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

          Example for what? The cost of Windows on a "brand name" box (HP/DELL/LENOVO/FUJITSU) is around 20-30€ since that is what you get back if you return a licence or do not buy them. To be payed every 3-5 years when I get a new box. Oh yeah, I'll go bancrupt on that and so will my employer. After all that is around 8-10€/year/employee. Even the Win8 upgrade, the first I bought in two decades, was around that price per box. And that was a "want" not a "need" upgrade, privat units ran fine with W7.

          Since price is not the reason - what are the benefits again?

          1. asdf Silver badge

            Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

            >As said - JAVA Developer. I do not care what OS it is as long as Eclipse, Netbeans and the other Java stuff works.

            Well you or more likely someone above you made a somewhat wise decision to use a somewhat cross platform toolset (write once run everywhere hahahah) to get their business done. In your specific use case yes windows on the desktop may make sense (although those tools will run on RHEL just as well) and as you say the licensing fees are minor. If however some rabid Microsoft lover manager type above had decided to bet the business on Silverlight the situation might be different. Microsoft is an ok option option as long as you say, the OS doesn't matter. Once you bet your business all in on their ecosystem though things change. They aren't the worst vendor to be locked into (cough Oracle) but vendor lock in in general is so 80s and 90s and generally is not a good idea. Granted most companies have some lock in especially on the desktop but lock in on the back end is where they grab you by the balls. That is why proprietary Unix on non x86 is dying on its ass. Even management has wised up.

            1. asdf Silver badge

              Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

              >but lock in on the back end is where they grab you by the balls.

              Also should say being locked into their technology for software development is also asking for trouble. Microsoft is keen to orphan technology and even whole markets whenever it suits them. Not to mention when you play in their sandbox if you do get too successful you may well be competing directly against them and they don't play nice.

            2. mmeier

              Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

              I "bought into" Java (invested privat time and money) in 1997/98 and started using it at work in IIRC 2001 (C++ / VB6 in that company before that, C/C++/Fortran/Step5/... in others). Liked the language and the environment a lot and still does. So while my current employer made the decision - I made the decision to work for him. Could have gone to a .NET/C# using company as well (had an offer) or "back to the roots" and C++.

              And the big benefit of Java IMHO is not "runs anywhere" (It more often than not actually does). It is "fails everywhere". Ones a system is up and running chances are good an error on the customer side can be reproduced "in house" and debugged.

    2. Tom Samplonius

      Re: Not pleasant reading for Redmond

      "So they will bring forward the date of stopping sales and support of Win 7 to .... next week?"

      They have a plan for that. MS only reports Windows 8 sales, even though these sales are of right-to-use licenses, which also allow you to use Windows 7. So Windows 8 "sales" are great. It doesn't mater for their purposes if people use it. However, investors may want to ask about what the ROI on the Windows 8 development and marketing will be (probably Windows 9 will be released before they turn a profit on Windows 8). But Investors haven't been put off by the money furnace that is Live, as long as there are lots of Office dollars left at year end.

      But if the Office business is disrupted, which is inevitable, because no business last forever, MS is in deep shit. The Office business supports Live and probably supports the Windows OS development too. It also keeps the XBox business healthy too. XBox makes money, but the Office covers up the fact that every 5 years, you need to add a couple of billion in R&D for a year or two, and then you get 5 more profitable years. For example, the Xbox 360 "red ring of death" debacle cost MS about $2B in the first year of release. The XBox business by itself isn't that appealing, and is pretty risky if you have some R&D screw ups.

  2. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge

    if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

    ... to some other Windows version (perhaps because everyone here uses Excel and Outlook, so Linux is limited to few desktops and server plant only), would you upgrade to Windows 8.*, or rather Windows 7? And how long did you think of an answer?

    1. Phoenix50

      Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

      Windows 8.1 - without the slightest hesitation.

      Sorry - have I ruined your experiment?

    2. Vortex

      Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

      W7. 1 Attosecond.

    3. MattEvansC3

      Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

      If you had to migrate from your outdated windows to a newer version would you upgrade to the newest or the the next one down?

      Its nothing to do with Windows8, businesses have always shown to be reluctant going to the newest version of Windows.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

        Some of it is Windows 8 - no matter how good it is under the hood the initial screen looks like a kiddies toy. Also some of the limitations placed on 8 - such as how many windows you can have open on the desktop at once and their shape, size and orientation - were actually a huge deal breaker. Being told that you can just go to "Classic" desktop and install things like classic shell aren't really the answer - they're cludges and work-arounds.

        1. mmeier

          Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

          There are limits on the number of windows I can have at the desktop in Win8? Where? I mean outside of Gnuliland where the liars life? Sorry the desktop behaves as it did in Win7 - open as many windows as your memory and screen size allows.

      2. Rick Giles
        Linux

        Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

        "businesses have always shown to be reluctant going to the newest version of Windows."

        And there is good reason for that.

        1. mmeier

          Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

          Actually there are simple reasons why smart companies do not use "newest version" of anything:

          + Smart companies TEST a new OS for compatibility issues before rolling it out

          + Smart companies keep the number of different client installations a small as possible to reduce the support problems like trying to get Olav Officedrohne to tell you WHAT OS he has installed

          + Companies that like to stay in business do not change running systems that still can be properly maintained. That's why there is a market for stuff like Red Hat servers with their "pay through the nose for 10 years support" system

      3. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

        > If you had to migrate from your outdated windows to a newer version would you upgrade to the newest or the the next one down?

        As someone that actually does business computing, I would say whatever actually supports my applications. Despite the usual Lemming propaganda spouted here, it's not a forgone conclusion that the latest and greatest will even support your bespoke or 3rd party apps.

        If it's really about those apps that aren't available for any other platform, then it really is all about the apps.

    4. mmeier

      Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

      Depends.

      Privat: Win8.1 without a second thought (well, actually I DID upgrade the day it came out)

      Company: An upgrade needs to be tested with all configurations in use. That takes 3+ month so Win8.1 would be out right now. So I had to check if 8.0 is still available. If yes - Win8 otherwise Win7

    5. Rick Giles
      Linux

      Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

      If I had my druthers, I'd go to Linux and Libre Office and tell every one else to suck it as they are using a non standard file format for information interchange.

    6. Daniel B.

      Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

      Win7, and our clients think the same. Everyone's being migrated to Win7, and it seems that the PC acquisition halt is still in place even after 12 months. Win8 has been out for a year, and it has been thoroughly rejected.

      MS, give it up. Nobody except your shills like Metro. Deprecate it, after all MS is a master in deprecating stuff their devs use all the time.

      1. mmeier

        Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

        Don't know your clients but ours (mostly small, insignifcant companies with 4 and 5 digit numbers of employees) change their computers every 3-5 years. And have done so late 2011 to mid 2012. All "new" units will get the same "clone" of software the current boxes have to keep helpdesk load down.

        A limited roll-in of specialist maschines (Latitude-10 and Thinkpad Tablet 2) with Win8 has happened and Win 8.1 with some customers

    7. GrahamsTenPenneth

      Re: if you had to migrate your business from Windows XP

      It was Windows 98 actually.

      Mandrake 8 (I believe)

      ..then Fedora (2 at the time)

      ..then Debian Sarge

      ..then Ubuntu (Fiesty was the first version used)

      Currently Xubuntu Saucy

      I believe Windows XP came out some time between Windows 98 and now.

      I have a VirtualBox copy somewhere I use for testing.

      O by the way, my clients are all windows shops.

      Sorry, your point ..?

  3. i like crisps
    Trollface

    Er........

    ....So....er......Microsoft beat ....Microsoft......Go Microsoft!!

    1. Velv Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Er........

      Troll icon noted.

      I did the sums. That's 87.16% of the market to Microsoft.

      Or just under lucky 13% for the rest!

      1. i like crisps
        Happy

        Re: Er........

        Thank you Velv, your calculations will now ensure that i slumber peacefully tonight......have an upvote.

      2. Jim 59

        Re: Er........

        As a Linux user, I bought Windows 8 (forced purchase) last week on a new laptop, to go with Vista (another forced purchase) on the previous laptop. I actually like Windows 8, just have no use for it.

        Wonder what percentage of these figures were compulsory purchase by people who never boot the software.

        1. mmeier

          Re: Er........

          Few. The number of Linux users on the desktop is around two percent and stable. So the number of "forced to buy the OS" people is likely very small.

          Actually I should be zero since the oh so smart people using Gnuliban OS surely would know how to buy a unit WITHOUT a pre-installed OS.

          1. xj25vm

            Re: Er........

            "Actually I should be zero since the oh so smart people using Gnuliban OS surely would know how to buy a unit WITHOUT a pre-installed OS."

            OK - I'll buy this one. Like, for every laptop and desktop model out there, there is a version with Windows and one without, right? Might be different in other countries, but in UK you might be lucky to get a handful of pc models offered without Windows. I'm not going to buy some random hardware combination by some random manufacturer of some random build quality - just so the machine has no pre-installed OS. So yes - I end up paying the MS tax because I am quite specific about what laptops (in general) I want and need.

            1. mmeier

              Re: Er........

              In case of Notebooks: phone DELL/Lenove/HP/Acer/Asus/Sony/<Company> and ask for one. Business customers can order units without OS and do since many have a volume licence and build a special "master image" in house that they put on all boxes. And to those who ask the same service is delivered for privat users.

              Sure, you won't get OS-less versions in MediaMarkt or the basic online configurator, they cater to Joe Average or small companies and that guy uses Windows in 90+ percent of the cases. And after the netbook problems they won't touch Linux with a 10 foot pole, the return rate of the Linux netbooks was extremly high

  4. M_W

    That'll be the sound of the rush

    Of people moving off XP and onto W7 before April.

    In a large corporate, we have to realise that not everyone who uses a computer will have the skill levels we all have as IT Pro's. It may take us a couple of hours to get used to it, but many regular joe users will find Win8.1 daunting unless you give them lots of hand holding. WinXP to Win7 is less of a leap from a user perspective and allows a business to (I hate this phrase, sorry) have a "quick win".

    Once Win8.1 becomes popular in the home environment - self 'consumer' training, and people are used to it, it will be an easier process in the corporate environment.

    IMHO Win8.1 is very nice (Am typing this on it right now) but there are some very quirky problems with it due to the consumerisation of the OS. Such as it asking for Windows live accounts even in a corporate environment and the metro apps problem.

    So - until Microsoft fix the own-goal apps issue (Metro apps can't use authenticated proxies like Microsoft's own ISA or TMG due to them using the WinHTTP stack rather than the WinInet stack - it is a known bug and was meant to be fixed in 8.1) most large corps will stick on W7 rather than get a deluge of calls saying 'it doesn't work'. Putting in a non-authenticated proxy isn't an option btw :)

    1. mmeier

      Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

      In my experience the "non IT" people are the ones with the least amount of problems. Just like they had the least amount of problems adopting stuff like the iThingy.

      The next easiest group are real IT professionals who consider operation systems a mere tool to be evaluated based on needs / use cases not on dogma.

      The problem groups are Muscle Memory Mike and other "IT experts", the same people that moan and bitch when you change office versions etc because their "experience" gets invalidated.

      And the biggest problem group are the FUD-boys from sector Penguin and the flat out liars from the Gnuliban movement that never tried but throw around "knowledge"

      1. Bootman

        Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

        Utter rot. As someone who has had to support users who have had to deal with Windows 8, most of them don't even know what Linux is, and those who do, just think it is something to do with programming. They hate the interface and find it a complete bane from their own experiences, not because Linux users told them it was rubbish. An install of Classic Shell + altering all the file associations so Metro doesn't appear generally sorts them out. They certainly aren't moaning 'experts' by any stretch of the imagination.

      2. asdf Silver badge

        Calm down Beavis

        Wow mmeier is the anti Eadon. Honestly though if you really want to advocate for Microsoft then try being a bit more subtle with a bit less spittle. It will get you a lot further.

      3. Bootman

        Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

        "And the biggest problem group are the FUD-boys from sector Penguin and the flat out liars from the Gnuliban movement that never tried but throw around "knowledge""

        So is the Linux community a small declining number of people not worth bothering with who will never bust out of the 0.5% or 1% or 2% or whatever it is on the desktop, or is it this huge vocal racketeering mafia influencing potential Windows 8 users into avoiding the product, and pushing Linux like a drug on them instead? If Linux users really do have that sort of sway, then Microsoft are screwed. Or could it be a complete red herring and what people want is the tradtional Windows user interface, and it's easier to blame "Linux" as though it is one entity, rather than Microsoft for the mess they have made of it all.

        As for "Real IT Professionals" who view the OS as a tool to be deployed rather than OS wars and dogma, then that explains clearly why Windows 7 usage is growing at a faster rate than Windows 8. A large percentage of users on this site are indeed "Real IT Professionals". And it appears from the majority view of them on here is that both Windows 7 and Linux are in the main damn fine tools to be used in suituations where they are appropriate, and that Windows 8 generally causes more issues than it solves.

      4. Chemist

        Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

        "And the biggest problem group are the FUD-boys from sector Penguin and the flat out liars from the Gnuliban movement that never tried but throw around "knowledge""

        I think you are wrong. In the main there are 2 problems for Win8 :

        1) Microsoft and its totally unreasonable attitude to users and their feedback

        2) Tablets. If half the market is now tablets and that trend continues it doesn't even matter too much if Win8 does increase its overall share of the desktop market.

        BTW I think if you research The Reg. forums that most of the criticism is from long-time Windows users.

        You do know what FUD means by the way ?

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. mmeier

          Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

          My tablet pc runs just fine under Win8. Well, he did almost as good under Win 7 but I am a pen user and touch is "useless shit / crap causing shiny screens" for me. So does the mobile workstation/convertible I use at the company.

          Customers are quite happy with their Dell and Lenovo units (Lat10/TPT2) since they simply run the existing software without a rewrite. Ever tried running a Swing application on an iToy or Fragmentdroid?

    2. Darryl

      Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

      Skip over 8.0, install 8.1, set the user's preferences to boot to the desktop and set the start button to go to the app list instead of the Start screen, and continue using desktop apps. You're not forced to use Metro apps and they did back off on forcing the start screen down your throat.

    3. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

      Once Win8.1 becomes popular in the home environment - self 'consumer' training, and people are used to it, it will be an easier process in the corporate environment.

      >Implying that Windows Hate will EVER become popular...

      Hell Windows Me was (AND, IS!), more popular then this train wreck.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

        >Implying that Windows Hate will EVER become popular...

        Ha saw that Hate instead of 8, brilliant you did miss windoze though so only 5/10

        1. Bootman
          Trollface

          Re: That'll be the sound of the rush

          > Ha saw that Hate instead of 8, brilliant you did miss windoze though so only 5/10

          Yes! Why not regale us with more thrilling tales of "Osama Bin Stallman", the "Gnuliban", "LinSucks", "PinguCrapOS". Or how about getting really creative. "Liar-nus Torvaldes", "Red Shat", "OpenPooSE", "Uc**tu". Such jolly japes and merriment, I must reach for my hip flask and calm down with a game of whist after all this excitement!

  5. buggane
    Thumb Up

    are friends electric?

    Windows 8.x is the Gary Numan of operating systems. You think you don't like it, but if you actually tried it you'd find out that it was pretty good.

    1. Vortex

      Re: are friends electric?

      Chaps with eyeliner trouble me.

    2. Flatpackhamster

      Re: are friends electric?

      I have tried it, and used it a fair bit now and I really don't like it. I don't like the way it tries to shoehorn you in to having a special Microsoft account which everything's tied in to, and I don't like the colours on the screen, and I don't like the poxy programs for travel and stock markets which appear by default, and I don't like the fact that it tries to force you to use touch and mouse is a secondary consideration. It JUST doesn't WORK on a desktop. It doesn't.

      I do like its ability to work with lots of devices and I do like its speed. But it is too much like Apple's OS for me, where you can use it any way you like so long as it's the way Apple like you to.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: are friends electric?

      Gary Numan,

      Also shit pilot - he crashed landed his plane in 1982.

      And no, the more I listened to Numan, the more he grated on me.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: are friends electric?

        He crashed a plane and is still alive? Sounds like a good pilot to me.

        Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. Any landing you can use the plane again is an excellent landing.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: are friends electric?

        An enforced landing is not the same as a crash landing. Bloody sensationalist daily mail wannabe journos...

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: are friends electric?

          "An enforced landing is not the same as a crash landing"

          Nor is it the same as a forced landing. These days enforced landings usually involve a couple of RAF Typhoons and an unplanned detour to a remote part of the tarmac at Stansted.

          1. kain preacher Silver badge

            Re: are friends electric?

            Well what kind of forced landing ? the kind were they tell you to land now , or the kind were the pilot pulls a trigger ?

    4. Dave K Silver badge

      Re: are friends electric?

      Sorry, I tried it, used it for a bit, and didn't like it. It has some nice features, but Metro was god-awful and the desktop just looked flat, lifeless and dull. Slapped Windows 7 back on and haven't looked back.

      Windows 8 does have real promise, but there's just a few irritating "gotchas" that hold it back. With the option of a Start Menu, a few nicer themes and the option to turn off Metro on a desktop PC, it'd be great. However at the moment it's sadly lacking these options.

    5. Jess

      Re: are friends electric?

      Windows 8.x partially good, partially incredibly annoying. A bit like having a splinter in your finger. But everything comes down to this: Metro. Remove that and perhaps it will be a dead son rising instead of lost.

      As it is windows 8 is just a hybrid. Pure annoyance.

      1. Shades
        Trollface

        Re: are friends electric?

        Jess wrote:

        "Windows 8.x partially good, partially incredibly annoying. A bit like having a splinter in your finger."
        A splinter in your finger is partially good?? Which OS is a paper cut then?

    6. Piro

      Re: are friends electric?

      Sadly not, I tried it, I still don't see the point. At all.

  6. Zmodem

    if the security groups and pofiles worked in windows 7, all corporations would have updated from XP to windows 7, 2 years ago and sold millions more

    1. RonWheeler

      security groups and policies

      PICNIC

      1. Zmodem

        Re: security groups and policies

        its all so pathetic in windows 7, the security on sub files and directories wont inherit from its parent, especially when creating new files is the main thing that does`nt work

        http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2013/03/10/Zmodem_windows_7_fail/

        when they have fixed it all in a big sp2, there still 100 more options that group profile need, in application policies so you dont have to set the security on every single .exe file 1 by 1

        1. Zmodem

          Re: security groups and policies

          if you install all of your programs and deploy a single image to all PC`s, and have http servers etc running, and different account with different default shells..

          adding a user to a group and enforcing the applocker rule does`nt work either, and services will still start up if a user is not a member of the enforcement group

    2. Chika

      Not really. While security groups and profiles have provided a bit of a problem, the two main problems have been legacy hardware and legacy software, at least in my experience.

      I have had too many instances of W7 machines being installed only to find that the unusual ticket machines they use require a kernel mode driver which W7 doesn't do, or I have to start flicking through the compatibility fixes because some programmer in the dim and distant past didn't bother to consider problems arising from users not running in admin accounts.

      Taking that into consideration as well as the fact that not every organisation wants to go out and re-equip their PC install base every time Microsoft gets a bug up their rectum and releases yet another operating system, especially if what they have does the job that they want it to do, and this is what you get.

      In some ways, the fact that it has been so long since WXP came out could work in W7's favour since many of the machines that have already been changed were falling to bits anyway, but some WXP machines will still be in pretty good nick at this point, especially given the reluctance of companies to go to Vista, "downgrading" these boxes instead.

  7. BigAndos

    One of my customers was in the middle of moving from XP to W8 earlier in the year. Whereas personally I would rather stick with W7 as long as possible, it actually seemed to be going fairly smoothly.

    Having said that, the organisation in question seemed to have hired an army of IT support contractors to floor walk wearing "ask me about Windows 8" t shirts (the lucky chaps and chapesses). When my own company moved to W7 all they needed to do was hand out a few flyers.

  8. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. mmeier

      Re: AutoDesk

      Define "support Win8" please. If you mean "write a Modern-UI app" - well why should they? The Win7 application will run fine on the desktop and the multi window model of the desktop is better suited for that type of application.

      I can understand the "one system to rule them all" approach, mixed environments can be a problem. That's why the family has been given the choice "take Win8 or support yourself" and they have choosen Win8.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: AutoDesk

        "take Win8 or support yourself"

        How Microsoftian.

        1. mmeier

          Re: AutoDesk

          Well, option 3 would have been "Pay me a typical freelancer fee". Between 70€/hour for Win7 and 140€/hour for Linux (20€ for support, 1000€ for the needed medication to dull the pain of touching PinguCrap OS). Sorry but in my own spare time I only support systems for free that I like and use myself. And Solaris on a client is not the prime choice for Joe Average enduser.

          It's like asking me to do a slightly more complex website that goes past mere HTML "for the team/club/other none paying entity". Sure as long as you accept your choice of language is JAVA, JAVA or JAVA. If you want PHP - hire me and pay me.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Alternatively, hire someone who knows what they are doing.

            It's usually cheaper in the long run.

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: AutoDesk

      "They are only moving to 7 as software houses, like AutoDesk, have said they have no immediate plans to support 8 (although that may have changed...)"

      Software houses may be more willing to support 8.1 once they no longer have to support XP. For similar reasons (basically cost), they may also be unwilling to support 8.0 ever, simply because 8.1 is a free (and fairly minor) upgrade and why should they add 50% to their testing costs just to save you the download?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: AutoDesk

        "Software houses may be more willing to support 8.1 once they no longer have to support XP. "

        No, it does not make rational.business sense to support Win8 - now -regardless of XP's future. This article proves it, Win8 market share is simply not enough to validate a spund business decision to dedicate a large stake of a large program's development cost to. I'm sorry if that hurts the Win8 supporters, but those are the sale figures quoted right here in this very article.

        In the future? Maybe. Now? A very weak business decision - it is far more sound to develop for Win7 as Win8 can run it anyway.

    3. tempemeaty

      Re: AutoDesk

      As a person who uses 3D Graphic applications I gotta say, "amen brother". If not for Windows 7 on my main computer I'd be sunk.

      As a side note, my second computer, running Windows 8, so sent me into fits of rage with some of some of the Windows 8 idiotic crap getting in the way of my getting anything done that a member of my household thought I was gonna punch the thing. Praise God Almighty that my third computer is using Linux...

  9. lansalot

    it's a simple test...

    How many of your friends with non-touchscreen devices have asked you "how the hell do you get a normal start menu back???"?

    I'm currently standing at 8. Including myself, and I do this fecking job for a living. Classic Shell, for all !

    1. Elmer Phud

      Re: it's a simple test...

      "How many of your friends with non-touchscreen devices have asked you "how the hell do you get a normal start menu back???"? "

      First huge tile is 'Desktop'?

    2. mmeier

      Re: it's a simple test...

      Out of 20 that switched to Win8 so far? None, not even my 70+ year old father who is not the most computer savy person. One person has asked for a very specific FEATURE of the menu and got a "oh, I do this over the file menu" from another

  10. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    I'll wait and see what Windows 9 looks like

    In the meantime, I'm treating my Win7 disk as if it was made of solid gold.

    If Win9 sports the same kind of half-baked stupid Microsoftian idea of a PC interface, then I guess I'll be royally screwed and will have to finally submit to the penguin gods.

    I'll like that no more than a new Windows TIFKAM, but at least I'll only have to do it once more, not on a schedule imposed by effing Redmond.

  11. RobHib
    Coat

    ...However, XP will never drop to zero.

    From next April into the foreseeable future, we'll still be using raw XP-sp3 unpatched with no updates.

    For us, the issue's been over for ages. And figures suggest 30+% of the world concurs.

    Boring, next subject please.

    1. btrower

      Re: ...Boring?

      @RobHib:

      This is not going to be boring if the first part of your prediction pans out and there are literally hundreds of millions of XP Users out there.

      If we find ourselves this time next year with more than 100 million XP users then either Microsoft will swoop in with a $99 Windows 9 lite or somebody else will. There is at least 10 billion dollars on the table and that *will* get someone moving eventually.

      We will reach a point where XP just is not viable anymore. It will stop running and it will have to be replaced. Some of that hardware simply cannot run the resource hostile Win 7 or Win 8.

      1. RobHib
        Boffin

        @btrower -- Re: ...Boring?

        Every new version of Windows isn't truly an upgrade nor is it really a new operating system. When Microsoft brings out a new version it's concocted from a mash-up of previous version with some new code and features. The new code is added to entice users to upgrade.

        We pay all over again for the old code from the mash-ups and often this code isn't even touched or upgraded when it's already a source of contention with users. More often than not, it's this old code that users want upgraded and or fixed.

        New versions of Windows are deliberately designed to force users to upgrade. New equipment won't work on older mobos and such so we never have a smooth ride--it becomes an endless cycle of upgrades and patches.

        In an open letter to Microsoft I deal with these issues more explicitly:

        http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2013/11/07/ie11_for_windows_7_final/#c_2019479

        Sure we'll reach a point were XP isn't viable anymore but for some that will be a long time. I regularly see NT4 and Windows installations that are still running and NT4 is nearly a decade older than XP!

        The fact is there's essentially three classes of users:

        1. IT types, gamers, bleeding-edgers, many El Reg readers etc.-- they'll instantly buy anything new MS comes out with.

        2. Normal users whose most exciting application is MS Office - they'll only upgrade with a replacement machine which has a later O/S already installed.

        3. Industrial and certain commercial users for whom Windows is just another component - these people rarely upgrade components--"if it ain't broke, don't touch it". For them, Windows will get upgraded when the whole plant and equipment is upgraded. Such people talk in terms of 20-30 year cycles.

        I can only add that I know of many NT4, Windows 2000, XP and some Windows 95 and even OS/2 still in operation in the #3 class. Moreover, there are many 'industrial' mobos available deliberately designed to still work on these old OSes--but you won't see them advertised in popular computer mags (but you will at a machine tool or electronic component exhibitions).

        The reason why there is so much old junk in existence is hardly because of cheapskate users, rather it's primarily because of Microsoft's intransigence. If Microsoft paid attention to what users actually wanted and ensured a smooth transition from one version of Windows to the next, then most of the issues would go away.

        Unfortunately, at Microsoft, marketing dominates whereas engineering, user needs and common sense do not.

        QED.

        1. btrower

          Re: @btrower -- ...Boring?

          @RobHib

          Sorry for the necro-post. I just wanted to respond to what you posted.

          I like the fact that you don't mince words as to your displeasure with Microsoft. Although I would be inclined to be a bit less harsh (when able), I agree with much of what you say. MS has created a huge mess with their constant changes in the pursuit of mammon.

          Although I agree with what you say, I think it is tangential to the point I was trying to make. If there are going to be more than 100 million XP holdouts then that represents an enormous marketing opportunity for anyone able to do a replacement. Maybe they might not go for a $100 upgrade, but they surely would go for a $9 upgrade. That would still mean there is something in the neighborhood of $1 billion dollars there. A billion here or there might not be that compelling to Microsoft, but even for them it is worth looking at. More to the point, this represents a competitive threat. In the event that someone does get in there and swaps XP out for their own product, MS will not just have lost $1B, they will have allowed a competitor to gain $1B for a net difference of $2B. Worse, even marginal success of the XP substitute would threaten the entirety of the Windows franchise and since MS products only run on Windows for the most part it threatens the entire ecosystem and strikes at the very heart of the beast.

          Either XP users move upwards along a pathway provided by Microsoft or they will end up jumping ship.

          Other things could happen, of course. Rather than staying on a PC platform users could just upgrade sideways to mobile devices or something. However, at least for a lot of individuals like me there is going to be a need for a local machine.

          For clients that need stability over decades, XP may well stay in place on dedicated devices separated from the network by an air gap. Nobody in their right mind would take an XP system actually doing a job and replace it for no reason. That is true not just of XP, though, and these cases are not under consideration.

  12. gregthecanuck

    Pops likes it

    Just picked up a new ASUS minitower for my dad to replace his old creaking XP box.

    Nice machine on sale for $369. 6GB memory, 1TB disk, zippy AMD A8-6500. Came with Windows 8. Upgraded it to 8.1, set dad up with an outlook.com account which gives him online email synced with Windows 8's mail application (replaces old Outlook Express).

    Automatically recognized his new Samsung laser printer no problem when plugged in first time. He likes the fact that printing works the same now in all Metro apps (from charms). Now does a nice print preview as well which is a nice touch.

    After about an hour dad had it all figured out and thought it was pretty cool. Big smile on his face. He likes the metro UI with the bigger icons and the single-click requirement. Yes he actually liked it, and liked it using a mouse. All the basic apps included such as weather, news and stocks aren't too bad at all, especially for a non-power-user.

    So based on my one-person conversion experience for a typical web-browsing and emailing use-case 8.1 seems to work quite well.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pops likes it

      But that's the problem right there - your dad liked it. "For typical web-browsing and emailing" "For a non-power user".

      Brilliant - big thumbs up for MS making a desktop that non-tech people can use. The problem is that Win 8 by default dumbs things down to a level that many experienced and tech savvy users find annoying. The MS mantra is one interface for everything in your life. But that is just a crock.... I DO NOT want the same interface on my phone, my tablet and my desktop. Different user environments need a different UI - not some one size fits all bodged job.

      1. mmeier

        Re: Pops likes it

        As a software developer (Java Enterprise) I get as close to the mythical "power user" as one will likely get. And I still find Win8 VERY useable. No matter what system from 10'' Atom-driven tablet pc to a dual monitor core-i7 tower. Eclipse and company run like they always did, Modern is a nice start menu replacement for me and the system is a bit smaller, faster and has some useable improvements.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pops likes it

      Sounds like my experience upgrading a relative from XP to Linux Mint.

      Except that I didn't replace the hardware....

  13. DrStrangeLug

    Hated hated hated

    Bought a new laptop recently and it came with 8 installed on it. A very quick instlall to 8.1 yet still it's rubbish.

    All those shortcuts like Alt+F4 no longer work, I actually paid £££ for a 3rd party app to get a proper start menu, and it looks and feels just slightly worse that windows 7.

    It's on borrowed time - one big screwup and it goes straight to linux.

    1. Elmer Phud

      Re: Hated hated hated

      "All those shortcuts like Alt+F4 no longer work, I actually paid £££ for a 3rd party app to get a proper start menu"

      I must be doing something wrong - not had any issues like that.

    2. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Hated hated hated

      All those shortcuts like Alt+F4 no longer work

      While I'm no fan of the Win8 shell (user interface) as it sucks balls on almost every level unless used on a touchscreen tablet, I have not noticed the lack of the old keyboard shortcuts as they work for me. I haven't yet wasted time on Microsoft's Office Metro applications, so maybe Microsoft decided to hack their applications in their usual non-standard manner (*) and removed the standard shortcuts, but for everything else I tried they worked ok.

      Win8.1 is a step in the right direction compared to Win8 but only because it's possible to mask some of the Metro ghastliness and user interface (UI/UX) failures.

      * It's always amazed me at Microsoft's stupidity in this regard - the Operating System should provide the look and feel of standard windowing elements however with Microsoft Office, they re-implement the latest look and feel of the latest Windows version in the application instead. While this means that Office 2007 looks near enough the same when running on Windows 7 as Windows XP, it defeats the entire rationale behind the operating system (technically, the shell, but MS have merged them on their mainstream OSes so it makes little difference). But given the awful bodge job hack-from-hell-that-draws-everything-twice that the Windows XP theme layer was on top of the standard windowing elements, I suppose it should be no surprise.

    3. Rick Giles
      Linux

      Re: Hated hated hated

      "It's on borrowed time - one big screwup and it goes straight to linux."

      Why wait? Because you know it'll do it at the most inopportune time.

    4. Darryl

      Re: All those shortcuts like Alt+F4 no longer work

      It's not an HP laptop with those horrible "nobody uses function keys anymore, so we'll default them to important things like numlock and pause and force users to press some Fn key or something in addition to the function key to get the function" keyboards, is it?

      I haven't found any shortcuts that don't work yet.

  14. Rick Giles
    Linux

    I see what you did there

    6.66% indeed.

  15. Fenton

    Aero

    Have MS really tied the kernel and the UI so closely together that you can't have an

    Aero or Metro option.

    The desktop does look flat in desktop mode, why can't I have the Aero bling in there?

    And what is it with UI devs these days where everything is going flat and boring, IOS7 went the same way horrid bright kiddie colours.

    The industry seems to be ignoring the 30+ Male with money to spend and is going after WAGs and kids

    1. joeW Silver badge

      Re: Aero

      Like all other design trends, Flat UI is amazing when done right; and bloody awful when done by ham-fisted amateur designers who are just following the trend rather than putting serious thought into the How and Why.

      I think Metro falls into the former camp myself. Yes, it took a lot of getting used to, but so did Windows 95 back in the day.

    2. mmeier

      Re: Aero

      Last I looked my computer was a tool so it did not need to be "exiting" or have distracting "bling". Boring but functional is fine for me.

      Granted, I danced a jig the day Aero bought the farm like the good boyscout I am.

  16. Rick Giles

    I see the Windoze Fanbois are out and about

    Both my Linux comments got a downvote...

    1. Flatpackhamster

      Re: I see the Windoze Fanbois are out and about

      You probably got them from people who are tired of you turning up chirping 'Switch to Linux, it's r0xxorlicious' every time the word 'Windows' appears in an article.

  17. Gray
    Trollface

    No more number.n releases anytime soon

    What's the odds that the marketing gnomes at MS will balk at introducing anything labeled "8.n" or "9" with the next leap forward? Unless they jump clear out of the associative mind-set of 8 ... perhaps to "Windows Century" edition, ie, Win100 ... except that might sound completey back-slid from earlier Win2000 product?

    More likely they'll jump tracks completely with something like "Windows Emperator" ... you know, a long-awaited response to Linux?

  18. tentimes

    I tried Linux

    But it just isn't in the same ball park as Windows 7 for a power users OS. Everything from RAID, to installing AMD video drivers with multiple screens, to just about anything you can think of, was a total pain in the ass. I spent about a month of my life trying to live in Ubuntu.

    BUT.... I use Ubuntu VM's for developing on. Works fine when you are using Linux for something specific (I also run both my servers off Ubuntu Server.)

    Windows 8 just drives me nuts - I had it 1.5 weeks and it completely strangled my productivity - even after I worked out all the hidden secret ways you could do the stuff that you used to be able to do easily. Total shite and useless for work.

    1. mmeier

      Re: I tried Linux

      I guess it is a case of PEBKAC. Those same things work fine on the various (20+) boxes switched so far. ATI, NVidea or Intel, one or many monitors, tablet pc, notebook or classic tower - all worked. One of them was "build for Win8" (Dad's new box) but the rest where 2+ year old Win7 boxes, including the rather special tablet pc and convertible units.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: I tried Linux

        Anyone that's got enough of a clue to even think about doing RAID on Windows should have no real problem with Linux. It's like that one competent NT admin in your company that sits for a Unix cert just for giggles.

    2. Zmodem

      Re: I tried Linux

      should try opensuse, its the best all round linux, but gnome in rubbish since opensuse 11.3, in 11.3 gnome was like windows 7 desktop

      https://www.virtualbox.org/

  19. MissingSecurity

    To me its an obvious flaw...

    Lets forget for the moment I rarely boot into windows for work.

    1) As a sysadmin, i don't give a shit about its look, it has not tools to incentivies me to switch.

    2) As a consumer, I have a tablet for any consumption, and get nothing really "OMG!" from switching my home box (which might go away depending on how steam on linux does).

    3) As a upgrade path, I am still getting people off XP on to 7, I don't really need to start the next path to Windows 8 just because Microsoft tripped on their own ignorance and missed the UI craze.

    4) As support path, its easier to maintain a single OS version with multiple applications, than multiple OS versions with multiple applications.

    5) The features that would have made think about moving for upgrades (IE UNIX support) are locked in shitty licensing models. Honestly, I dispise Windows Licensing (Which is where I direct most of my MS hate), I actually don't mind the OS.

    1. JEDIDIAH
      Linux

      Re: To me its an obvious flaw...

      > 1) As a sysadmin, i don't give a shit about its look, it has not tools to incentivies me to switch.

      That "look" is the default user shell. It's not just window dressing. It actually does matter.

  20. RTNavy

    Windows 7 Not by Choice

    Microsoft may have a deadline to rid the world of Windows XP by April, but those of us in the US Medical Fields have some more stringent requirements to meet if we still want to get paid for the care we provide.

    Affordable Care Act, Meaningful Use Stage 2, HIPPA Ombudsman Rules, ICD10 Deployments all have hard deadlines in 2014. All of which impacts the amount of money we are reimbursed by Medicare/Medicaid for our provided care (80% of our revenue stream).

    There are still several Medical Software vendors that are still stuck on Internet Explorer 7/8, Java 1.6, Windows 2000 etc.

    We're lucky we can even try Windows 7, let alone Windows 8.x.

  21. Michael Habel Silver badge

    Will this sudden uptake of Win7 force MicroSoft's hand to release a SP2 for it?

    I'd love to be able to install it on a Clean System without having to waste the whole Day on Windows Update!

  22. Daniel B.
    Alert

    Win7 still on the rise

    Really. MSFT should stop plugging their ears and admit that Win8.x is a failure. No, having shills propping up a turd won't bring up a Jobsian effect. Hell, even Apple can't keep it up as Android is slowly but surely taking over the #1 spot in most markets. Of course, the difference is that the Jobs-powered RDF was pushing out stuff that was actually likeable, while the MS stuff is just plain awful.

  23. DeadlyChicken

    Windows 7 is a great OS but it feels antiquated after using windows 8 and now 8.1.

    There are so many imp0rovements in windows 8 and the only thing that people seem upset about is the metro start screen. jeez get over it, or download one of the many classic menus.

    You get everything windows 7 has plus a whole lot more.

    1. Daniel B.

      Bad customer service?

      No-one is going to "get over it" until it's made optional or just plain GONE. See, Apple also monkeyed with "let's put a mobile UI on our desktop OS" but they made it optional (Launchpad). It ended up being rarely used by most, but didn't bring the shitstorm on Apple. Why? Because it is OPTIONAL. As in, you're not forced to use it if you don't want to.

      The Metro abomination is forced upon everyone, and 8.1's idea of "choice" means "you can choose to boot into a desktop view" but you're still forced to use the damn thing the moment you click on the "start button".

      By the way, the last time a previous OS looked antiquated compared to the new one would be OSX (for Apple), Win2000/XP (for Microsoft) and the 2.6.x release of the Linux kernel for the Linux world. Arguably 7 might qualify, but even then it wasn't that much of a jump. Most posts I've seen claiming 8 makes all other OSen look prehistoric have been obvious astroturfers.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My Sony Laptop is 7 years old and running XP.

    Win 7 and 8 do not support some of the hardware, fingerprint scanner,wireless networking and bluetooth so I will stick with XP regardless of support until the thing physically dies on me.

    It still does everything I spent the £1700 asking price for it to do.

    I also have a Samsung Win8 laptop,I dont like the OS,for me its just not easy to learn so thats going on ebay !

    1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
      Linux

      "Win 7 and 8 do not support some of the hardware, fingerprint scanner,wireless networking and bluetooth"

      I'll bet that most recent Linux distros will support the majority of your hardware, though - take a LiveCD for a spin and find out. At least you'd be safe from zero-day exploits after next April.

    2. mrbawsaq

      A friend of mine bought a Windows 8 laptop even though I told him not to. I set it up for him (which took a week by the time I had finished fucking around with it). He tried to use it once and hasn't opened the lid for about 6 months now.

      He can't even be bothered to put it on e-bay as it's effectively worth not much more than fuck all.

      1. mmeier

        Maybe you should stick to things you know. Like putting packages in the little cart at Amazon.

    3. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Is it that hard to go to the Device Manager, and pull some DEVID's, assuming that you don't know who made that Fingerprint Scanner / Wireless et-al. and get those Drivers from them? You just have to put the work into it. its not that big a deal to say FECKIT, and stick to a dead OS like XP...

  25. Zmodem

    windows 7 is good for 10 years,. it have crap security, and amakes professional or ultimate a waste of money

    you have to create your own start up shortcut in the start menu folder to load your own custom theme :

    "%SystemRoot%\system32\rundll32.exe" "%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL %SystemRoot%\system32\desk.cpl desk,@Themes /Action:OpenTheme /file:" C:\Users\*\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Themes\*.theme"

    the vistual styles for the .theme files are rubbish and there is`nt a editor, and all colors cant be changed, and colors/desktop colors in the registry are never both set

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    and so on and so on

    1. Zmodem

      locking memory pages in security templates works, which is good if you disable the pagefile, and want smoother games with some 1600mhz ram and a gtx card

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