Wait and listen for the vitriol that will come from the other side of the pond about hacking and how illegal access to information should be heavily punished.
Pot meet kettle.
A 28-year-old British man has been indicted in the US, which alleges he hacked of thousands of computer systems in the US and other countries, a New Jersey attorney said today. Lauri Love of Stradishall, England, was indicted on one count of accessing a US department or agency computer without permission and one count of …
He has (insert random autistic trait) and would be harmed by (NSA, FBI, KGB, GCHQ) if convicted of (insert crime)
"he's such a lovely biy, wouldnt hurt anyone, got in with the wrong crowd."
perhaps peter sutcliffe could appeal on the same grounds? <sarc>
As an Aspie I've never had the notion to go looking for conspiracy theories, just mind my own business and keep within the law.
David Cameron says they need to spy on us all because he needs to protect us from terrorist with explosives in backpacks.
Sorry Angela, you have a backpack and that officially puts you under suspicion of being a terrorist.
> LOL, just look at The Faithful trying to justify e-crimes by their fellow sheeple by trying to drag the NSA into the thread.
Oh noes, Plump & Bleaty accusing others of being sheeples. Again!
And attempting to trash another thread. Again.
Perhaps the reg can plant a lawn to keep you busy, let the bipeds have their discussions with their silly oversized brains.
Grass coloured icon. Maybe confuse you for a while, get you gnawing at the screen and forget the keyboard.
"Wait and listen for the vitriol that will come from the other side of the pond about hacking and how illegal access to information should be heavily punished....." If you can't tell the difference between what these idiots were doing and why the NSA "hack" then I can probably interest you in a great family holiday camp investment in Akmolinsk.....
" If you can't tell the difference between what these idiots were doing and why the NSA "hack" then I can probably interest you in a great family holiday camp investment in Akmolinsk....."
Ok, so explain us why the NSA "hack", and why would it matter?
They were/are breaking the law too, "why" they hack is completely irrelevant.
>> " If you can't tell the difference between what these idiots were doing and why the NSA "hack" then I can probably interest you in a great family holiday camp investment in Akmolinsk....."
> Ok, so explain us why the NSA "hack", and why would it matter? They were/are breaking the law too, "why" they hack is completely irrelevant.
"US Spies on Its Allies For Business Intel, Not For National Security"
senti: "They were/are breaking the law too, "why" they hack is completely irrelevant."
Come on, you really going to back that up?
You can illegally hunt an animal for many reasons, Two of which are survival and trophies. Are both as equal in the eyes of the law? No, it is why we have juries (although in this case, the trophy hunter is undoubtedly fucked).
So, survival matters. Sure, you can say the NSA is lying when they state it is for the survival of their citizens, but at least it is plausible. Who knows, maybe this "Love" will argue he was doing it to better the world, but then he has to prove that his actions make that plausible. The proof of that is where his argument would fall down, leaving him back at just being a criminal (which he is, apparently).
BTW... Let's not forget the part of the article that states he was arrested "...as part of a separate British investigation." This "Love" doesn't even have love for his own country.
Hating America Is A Crime !
".....why the NSA "hack"...." The NSA monitors coms and (allegedly) hacks the servers of foreign countries and companies to find criminals and protect the public. Do you even know why this clown and his crew of numpties were trying to hack military servers? Don't tell me, you think it was so they could send them Christmas e-cards?
".....They were/are breaking the law too....." Didn't you stop to think that the German BND have long been complicit in NSA and CIA (and GCHQ) operations, especially in scrutinizing those German politicians that started their lives under Soviet control in East Germany? If Merkel was on anything other than a hunt for votes she'd be focussing her attention on asking her own spies what they helped the US agencies get up to.
In the meantime, please do explain how you want to justify the e-crimes of what you no doubt consider "heroic" Mr Love? Too busy hating the States to be able to see?
""Wait and listen for the vitriol that will come from the other side of the pond about hacking and how illegal access to information should be heavily punished....." If you can't tell the difference between what these idiots were doing and why the NSA "hack" then I can probably interest you in a great family holiday camp investment in Akmolinsk....."
I can see the difference. The NSA illegally hacked into foreign databases, siphoned off information about lots of people, and used the information to further its own interests, and ultimately make money, whereas this guy, erm.
"If you can't tell the difference between what these idiots were doing and why the NSA "hack" then I can probably interest you in a great family holiday camp investment in Akmolinsk...."
At best the NSA hacks for the same reason curious idiots hack -- because it can.
In the middle, the NSA hacks to kill people by targeted drone strikes that sometimes kill grandmothers in front of their grandchildren.
At worst the NSA hacks to disrupt democracy in democratic nations by giving one politician the secrets and strategies of another.
".....kill people by targeted drone strikes that sometimes kill grandmothers in front of their grandchildren....." Aw, you really think that's true? I guess they must have missed the grannies when they were frying these four jihadis (who seem to have been linked to the people that think shooting up malls full of African women and kids is just fine, grannies present or not):
"So you're saying that every single person in Pakistan is a legitimate target?...." Nope, just the ones aiding and abetting the Taleban, Al Qaeda and chums. BTW, before you start trotting around on your moral hobbyhorse, maybe you'd like to check how many of the London Tube bombing victims were military personnel. Then you can check the Madrid bombings, maybe the women and kids killed almost daily in market bombings in Iraq, etc., etc., and truly unfortunately, etc.
".....Most people want to just be left alone to get on with their lives....." I'm pretty sure many of the Tube bombing victims had a similar sentiment, shame we can't ask them. Do you think maybe the bombing victims in Iraq were just trying to get on with their lives?
"....I think that US foreign policy sucks raw donkey dick....." That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, right up to the point where you start committing crimes (like blowing up Tube trains) to "change our minds". Protest, write to your representative, even make your own political party if you like, I'd defend your right to do so even though I think you and donkey genetalia have a lot in common. Of course, if you should happen to choose bad company, don't be surprised if that causes you unfortunate drone issues.
".....but I don't expect to be droned into my component atoms for it." See the comment about methods above. The Taleban chose badly, despite being given every chance to choose otherwise, and it looks like many of them still don't want to choose otherwise. Apparently, also despite the number of innocent Pakistanis and Afghans that have died shielding them.
"Alleged Suffolk hacker cuffed by Blighty's plods in separate investigation"
Sadly it'll never happen, but I really do think it's about time the UK (and the EU countries in general) grew a spine (or even pretended to have a spine), looked the over-reaching, self-important and hypocritical American political and judicial systems squarely in the eye and said a big, "Fuck you!"
We should have waved them goodbye soon after 1945.
Instead they've continued to occupy bases all over Europe.
That's why we can't look them squarely in the eye.
We are still client states or 'satellites' of the USA.
Some ex-Soviet satellites may now be more free than we are.
"... the alleged hacking of thousands of computer systems in the US and other countries ... inserted backdoors into compromised networks to allow them to return at a later date to steal confidential data from those hacked systems... "
Oh dear. He will probably get the book thrown at him - for impersonating a member of the security services.
"I'm sure Chancellor Merkel would like to prosecute Obama in a German court."
Only if she's terminally naieve and believes in a world where your calls aren't subject to routine interception. Given that she's an Ossi, I doubt both of those, and suspect that she believed all along the Yanks were and still are doing this. All the European reaction to Snowden's revelations is mere diplomatic pantomime, such as summoning the US ambassador to register a stern protest, when all concerned know that it's business as usual away from the TV cameras.
And if you accept that but for the Cold War and NATO, the USSR would have over-run Western Europe, it really doesn't matter that the Yanks may have over-reached themselves with their latest spying, because we still owe them for defending a weak and unwilling Europe, including spying on the Russkies.
Sadly, although there is currently no publicly know proof, I do not doubt you are correct, that the NSA has provided Obama with information on Merkel to keep her quiet.
And if the USA will subvert Germany's democracy this way why would it not subvert other European democracies this way?
*Maybe* this explains how Blair and Cameron got into power and how Blair got re-elected despite widespread British hatred against him. Maybe.
At least this is not as bad as the assassinations the US engaged in during the 1950s and early 60s.
".... this explains how Blair and Cameron got into power and how Blair got re-elected despite widespread British hatred against him...." Wow, you really are completely clueless, aren't you? Did you get an adult to open the browser and do the typing for you? Blair would have not been Bush's choice of PM, he would have much preferred a Euro-sceptic Conservative than any Nu(t)Labour member. And Blair was re-elected by the UK public, so unless you want to pretend that the NSA somehow blackmailed the majority of the UK electorate then you're really just talking out of your rectum. Total fail.
I humbly apologize on behalf of America to all of those lilly-white, would-never-spy-on-anyone, oh-so wonderful and squeaky clean governments that we've wronged.
And if you hate us so much, by the way, please stop using the operating systems we make, the computer chips we fab, the network we started, and all of that good stuff. You know - you wouldn't want to be hypocrites, right?
> please stop using the operating systems we make
> the computer chips we fab
Yep, happy to use the ones the Israelis, Malaysians, Filipinos etc fab for you
>the network we started
If you don't mind not using the packet switching part, or the http/html part that we invented
>and all of that good stuff
I don't accept your apology since I don't believe you understand the significance of what is being attempted. Your Secret Service has exceeded its remit of protecting your country from would be aggressive attacks from foreign states and rogue agents and moved into the domain of paranoid control freaks. The aim no more to protect the USA but to ensure the promotion solely of the American brand of Capitalism and America's interests. I make no judgement whether Capitalism is preferable to any other form of governance but attempting to stifle other forms of governance whilst engaging in mass population surveillance is akin to the totalitarian regimes deposed many times over...
"I humbly apologize on behalf of America to all of those lilly-white, would-never-spy-on-anyone, oh-so wonderful and squeaky clean governments that we've wronged." - I live in France. I expect the French to spy on me if they think I am likely to be a security risk or the like. I do not expect the Americans to be watching me "just because". There is the big difference. The Americans were not keeping tabs on international suspects, they were attempting to keep tabs on everybody everywhere. And for what? To find out I'm a boring single guy who wants to marry a cute Japanese girl? Jeez, that's on my blog! Instead, I think the Americans risk failing to see the forest for the trees. All this spying, all this information, and it did exactly bugger all to stop the DIY bomb at the Boston Marathon (even after, apparently, Russia warned the US about the two involved).
"And if you hate us so much" - I don't hate you, I just now think of you as extremely childish - in other words, you (at least, the perception of "you" as seen through your foreign policy) always want your own way and throw a tantrum when that doesn't happen. The recent "furlough" (I had to look that up in a dictionary) has done very little to improve my perceptions of America. I mean, seriously, aren't you guys embarrassed by all of this?
"by the way, please stop using the operating systems we make" - I'm stuck using iOS on this device. As for the other one, when it is no longer viable to keep XP running, I'll be moving to Linux...which is not American.
"the computer chips we fab" - what would that be? My SD card says "Taiwan" on the back. The big chip in my satellite decoder says "Philippines". The SoDIMM on the shelf says it is Samsung, so probably not made in the US. The iPad Mini I am writing this on says on the back how it is lovingly designed by awesome dudes in California...and Made in China. And that's it, isn't it? Stuff is designed by American companies (Intel and Texas Instruments come to mind), but it is likely actually fabbed somewhere else, most likely for economic reasons (in other words, better for shareholders), but how much tech is uniquely American these days?
"the network we started," - yup, the internet is pretty good, but do be aware that it is a British bloke who took the genesis of a military/educational communications network and made it something that the public might have interest in. YOU made the network, WE made the World Wide Web. (^_^)
"and all of that good stuff." - okay, true, I have a soft spot for root beer (not beer at all) and movies in which Bruce Willis blows up stuff. But, then, I also like Yakitori sauce and Takeshi Kitano. So, it's a bit of everything, from everywhere.
@David we can all engage in sophistry and cry baby emotions.
'/Oh you hate us so much, you never let me do anything.' Sounds like a teenage daughter more than a serious political statement.
You really should apologize because the issue is not that other nations spy on enemies or that they wiretape criminals.
The issue is that the USA spies on friends, allies and people accused of no wrongdoing what so ever.
Only bad nations do that. The USA, UK and probably Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Russia and China.
The other 192 nations do not spy on friends, allies and huge masses of innocent people.
"....,The other 192 nations do not spy on friends, allies and huge masses of innocent people...." If you seriously baaaah-lieve that then you are simply too blinkered for words. Please do name me a nation you think is "pure" (yeah, I'm taking a dig at what I suspect your ethnic origin is) and I'm pretty confident I can provide some links as to how they spy on people.
Funnily enough I have been boycotting American products for some years. The reason being that the USA bleats on about democracy while overthrowing or destabilising democratically elected governments that it does not like. So you can stick your Californian wine where the sun don't shine.
I'm with David to a point because I'm tired of a America bashing. All governments spy, all countries have good and bad. Personally we may have some crap gov stuff goin on and we aren't perfect but there are few other places in the world I'd want to visit or live. And the countries and peeps that hate on us the most, I say stop with all the government suck up aid. Let the charitable organizations of the UN and any other independent ones do it cause we haven't been able to buy a friend in years and years.
Wow, aren't you a smug bunch. I'm not sure it makes much sense to rebut any of your responses - at least, the few that aren't infantile name-calling - but seriously, CERN as the originator of ARPANET? And it gets up votes? I expect nationalist assholes here, but not people so blinkered by jingoistic outrage that their own brains are rewriting history for them.
Anyway, bring on the downvotes and wild conclusion-jumping about my politics. Not giving a shit about the truth and caring only for self-righteous ego masturbation must be quite liberating. I'll leave you to it; must be getting' on time to load mah shotgun, tune the banjo, and heft mah enormous wobbling bulk across the trailer park to fuck mah sister Ella-Mae!
Given the alleged offence was unauthorised access, unauth modification, and conspiracy to commit furtjer offences (the back doors), that is the text book S1,S2,S3 offences under the Computer Misuse Act 1990.
Why does the DA want to prosecute?, rather than phone the met, and ask for them to enforce UK law against a UK citizen, and sends us the evidence collected on the victims systems.
Unless the DA thinks that a US vistor geting his pockets picked in London means he should stand trial in the US!
"Prosecutors claim that Love's activities cost the affected agencies “millions of dollars”."
We hear this time and time again. It's bollocks.
What this statement means is "we spend millions on infosec consultants after the breach who told us where all the inherent problems in our systems were and how to fix them".
If they had spent the money before, on doing infosec right the first time there wouldn't have been the breach.
This "hacker" is just a convenient excuse to their bosses to make them not look like the bunch of incompetent twunts that they are.
And what about the tens of billions the US government is costing the rest of the world?
And if the USA truly thinks that all nations engage in spying, why was the network not properly secured?
Why did this hacker incur any extra expenses over top of what would have been needed to secure it against the Dutch or the Swiss?
Can't believe they are using the "costing squillions" line again. Weren't they supposed to have spent squillions putting the infosec right after McKinnon went looking for aliens? I mean this goes back as far as 1986 and The Cuckoos Egg (Clifford Stoll but most of you should know that), if not further.
Doubt they will ever learn ...
IT? Well they sure as hell don't get it
It is not like it doesn't appear Tony Blair is being paid off by the USA for passing undemocratic legislation against the wishes of the British public. The 'optics' of this are terrible.
Why have we not yet revoked that man's passport? If Blair wants to travel, let him do it on a US passport.
"Why have we not yet revoked that man's passport? If Blair wants to travel, let him do it on a US passport."
or just extradite him and a bunch of ex-Home Sectraries to the ECHR, for enabling torture due to the rendition flights they allowed through UK airspace and refueling at UK airports.
Churchil drafted what became the ECHR torture provisions, a certain way, so that, so that you are still guilty if you turn a blind eye, or do anything that actively facilitates.
I would also note that the US is not extraditing the 50 or so CIA types involved in the kidnap and rendition of a man from the streets of italy, that an Italian judge would like to talk to them about.
Obviously we'll never know the detail, but the last arse who thought it was ok to hack the pentagon looking for flying saucers apparently walked in through an open door - I assume the 'millions of dollars in damages' that he caused was mainly putting a password on the system.
There is often lots of noise and heat because the incompetent who committed the crime (and if guilty it is a crime, make no mistake - he is 28, not 12, and he is accused of inserting code to steal real data, he didn't just go looking for flying saucers) embarrassed them. If you embarrass the Government (pretty much any Government) expect pain. It isn't justice, it's revenge. Well sometimes it's both.
Personally I'd prefer it if the US lived up to the one thing they did create which is a) fucking awesome, and b) pretty much all their own work (unlike all that technology that they are claiming in posts further up this page) which is the US constitution. It is a shame that most Americans cannot see how their Government is undermining their own rights, by attacking ours with secret illegal hacking, but vitriol and anti Americanism won't fix that. (Electing politicians who are honest would be a good start, but that appears to be something of an oxymoron)
I'd rather we had a system where the evidence had to be presented to a British court, but that isn't the USA's fault, but rather our own idiotic professional politicians. But do I have sympathy for the modern day 'Robin Hood'? Not as the story is presented, sounds like an arse.
In fact, to use an Americanism - a dumbass.
`A 28-year-old British man has been charged with the alleged hacking of thousands of computer systems .. Prosecutors claim that Love's activities cost the affected agencies “millions of dollars”.'
Are these 'computer systems' running the same passwordless Windows NT image that Gary McKinnon was accused of 'breaking' into.
« “As part of their alleged scheme, they stole military data and personal identifying information belonging to servicemen and women," said US attorney Paul Fishman in a statement listing the full charge sheet.
« He added: "Such conduct endangers the security of our country and is an affront to those who serve." »
Isn't this bloke British? If so his allegiance is to the Queen and none else. Let the Americans sort their own shit (a security audit would be in order) and, if they want to try to recover any of those "millions of dollars" they allegedly lost, that's what British law and courts are for.
1. Sadly too many people in government, including too many politicians, act as though their primary loyalty is to the seat of Imperial Power, not the UK.
2. The US government is a government. It is not a regular householder or ordinary business. It should have expected penetration attempts by the most skilled people Russia, China and Israel have.
Complaining about the expense needed to harden their site against amateur hackers makes them look silly.
3, Ordinary householders and businesses have a far more legitimate beef complaining about the USA causing them to need additional expense to safeguard.
Without the USA and UK, without the NSA and GCHQ, an up-to-date OS and antivirus was all the security we need. But now that is inadequate and we cannot even afford what we need to secure our persona, political and business secrets.
I thought the official US lines was, "Spying is okay, everyone does it", so how can they legitimately complain when anyone spies on them?
Information security laws have been thrown completely out the window. The US, UK, Germany, Brazil, Mexico, etc. prohibitions against theft of data and breaking into computer networks do not give exemptions for the spy agencies of other nations.
There are no special 'foreign spy agency' exemption or amnesty clauses in any of their privacy and data protection laws.
Under US, UK, German, Brazilian, Mexican, etc. law a foreign government's spy agency is has no special status different than an ordinary foreigner.
Does US attorney Paul Fishman realize that the United Kingdom is an independent soverign country, with it's own laws and judicial system ...
[.. just kidding ..]
"The New Jersey U.S. Attorney’s Office has charged an alleged hacker .. with breaching thousands of computer systems .. to steal massive quantities of confidential data"
Does US attorney Paul Fishman realize that the computers are already compromised with built-in backdoors and diluted encryption. Done to make it easier for the NSA to crack the keys but very difficult for the average hacker. It's all those pecular numeric constants in the algorithms that's the give away.
“The borderless nature of Internet-based crime underscores the need for robust law enforcement alliances across the globe"
The Internet isn't to blame, its the 'computers' connected to it that's where the fault lies. A fricking Arari would be more secure.
`Love and his conspirators planned and executed the attacks in secure online chat forums known as internet relay chats, or “IRC.”'
HAAAAAAAA .. ROTFLMHO
To gain entry to the government victims’ computer servers, Love and conspirators often deployed what is known as a “SQL injection attack.”
For FucK sake .. this is getting beyond a joke ..
".....For FucK sake .. this is getting beyond a joke .." Indeed it is, but the courts have to make examples of these skiddies in the hope it will discourage the other idiots. I mean, how STUPID do you have to be to think hacking US military sites is a good idea? It sounds like the authorities watched these guys and gathered plenty of evidence, so no delaying extraditions on male bovine manure claims of "only looking for evidence of ET" for these dummies.
The British government should let him walk and tell the US that when people are arrested, charged and serving their jail time for the hacking and snooping that they did for the US, then the British bloke will be arrested and turned over. Until then, it is all fair play. In fact, he will soon be on the payroll to see what else he can uncover.
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