back to article Lumia 2520: Our Vulture gets his claws on Nokia's first Windows RT slab

Nokia's first Windows RT tablet – the 10.1in 2520 – was unveiled today, showing how wise the company was to bide its time. The Finnish firm has watched while first-generation Surface RT tablets and convertible laptop-slabs crashed and burned, and today's offering shows what it learned. The Lumia 2520 stands out on both price …

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  1. wyatt

    It's still more expensive than a netbook and some laptops. Whilst I realise that you can't stick a laptop in your hand/man bag (yeah I know you could..), I'd rather have a keyboard and all the other benefits they come with for the price.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      An iPad costs more than many laptops - as do top-end smartphones. In fact an iPhone5S or top-end Android cost nearly the same as an ultrabook, let alone "a" laptop.

      If you don't feel a very portable device suits you, then it isn't for you. But the tablet phenomenon shows clearly that many many people DO want it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Exactly, desktops have the best "poke for the pound". Try carrying one around though :)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Try carrying one around though

          I carry one around on my tablet and Chromebook, via the wonders of remote access. I wouldn't describe it as a 100% viable solution yet, but with the current rate of progress I suspect that in 2 years time I won't need a laptop with a fan in it at all.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Happy

            Re: Try carrying one around though

            I can see a nice niche for this device here. I'm already working up remote application support here based around various 7-10" Android/iOS devices (perhaps phones) and what I consider big iron here. This would be a dead easy device to support on the hardware and software (both ends), that I'd have to be an idiot not to consider them. Not just for Windows on the infrastructure end either. Nice.

            Good price point except for the cost of a device specific keyboard. Much rather go Bluetooth even at the cost of four hours estimated battery life (and I can already tackle that anyway).

      2. David Simpson 1

        You don't get high end laptops for next to nothing with a contract, big difference there.

    2. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      On the other hand, battery life of 11 hours (Nokia's claim is 11 hours of HD video) is hard to find in a £500 laptop, and as those laptops aren't as smooth and responsive in use as the Surface 2, I can't see them being better than this tablet which is arguably running a higher-spec System-on-chip than Microsoft's new tablet.

      Yes, they're not "Full x86 Windows", but at the price points we're talking about, you cannot make a good quality x86 tablet system with good battery life and good performance - look at the price difference between the Surface and Surface Pro. That's how much it costs to make x86 Windows run well on a tablet. Anything around the same price as the ARM tablets is just another Netbook - an underpowered, and ultimately disappointing, Windows laptop.

      Microsoft shouldn't have called this "Windows RT". Had they called it "Microsoft Surface OS", and then touted Windows 8 (x86) as being able to run both "Windows" and "Surface" apps, they would have spared themselves a lot of abuse from the tech-blog-superstars.

      But the fact that RT isn't x86 Windows isn't a disadvantage, any more than not being Win32 is to iOS or Android. WindowsRT is a tablet OS, and as such it has a lot of very nice features that its competitors lack, but features only go so far:

      If you want a solid, rational argument against RT tablets, then here it is: RT devices have access to far fewer good apps than an iPads, or even Android tablets do. That's all (but it is a big "all" for users who really NEED a particular app)

    3. Robert E A Harvey

      Expensive

      Yeah. Putting aside all discussions of OS and performance, they seem to be wanting to charge me a hundred quid for a keyboard.

      I might be from Lincolnshire, but I bain't a cabbage!

  2. Moosh

    Windows RT

    WHY

    WHY THE HELL ARE THEY STILL PUSHING RT

    WHY

    1. Candy

      Re: Windows RT

      "They" aren't. _Nokia_ (not yet owned by MS) are evolving their product line up from WinPho to an RT device. Irrespective of your opinion of the merits of RT and WinPho, it's a logical choice for Nokia at this point.

      For them it makes a lot of sense: Got a Lumia? Want a tablet to go with that? Here you go...

    2. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Windows RT

      Because the hardware to run full Windows is either too expensive or too battery hungry to pack into a tablet form factor at a price point competitive with iOS/Android.

      You might as well ask why anyone is still bothering with iOS and Android when OSX and Ubuntu are so much more feature-rich.

      1. P0l0nium

        Re: Windows RT

        Really , What about this one?.

        http://www.amazon.com/Transformer-T100TA-C1-GR-10-1-Inch-Convertible-Touchscreen/dp/B00FFJ0HUE

      2. big_D Silver badge

        Re: Windows RT

        @JDX the Atom tablets offer the same weight and battery life and performance was better than ARM tablets, but I will give you price, the previous generation were on average a tonne more expensive than the ARM tablets, but you generally also got double the storage.

        The new Baytrail are supposed to be twice as fast as the last generation, so I'm looking forward to seeing some in the flesh.

        The RT tablets are great if you don't need any legacy applications, but I never saw the appeal, compared to a Windows 8 tablet with Atom.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows RT

      Windows RT is to iOS as Windows is to Mac OS

      1. Joe Gurman

        Re: Windows RT

        "Windows RT is to iOS...."

        How very sad for Windows RT.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows RT

        "Windows RT is to iOS as Windows is to Mac OS"

        No, not really. Windows RT is a full OS - IOS is a cut down.

        1. RegKees

          Re: Windows RT

          others would argue iOS (or Android) is optimised for touch, leaving features out that simply do not work well on a touch screen.

      3. Joe Montana

        Re: Windows RT

        Windows RT is to iOS as Windows is to Mac OS - with one very important difference - BRANDING.

        The "Windows" brand is associated with desktops and a large block of existing software, something with the same brand but no compatibility results in angry users who can't run their existing apps. iOS may be based on the same kernel as OSX but it never did anything to imply any level of compatibility between the two.

        Similarly, the "Windows" brand is toxic, it's not popular its simply ubiquitous, people are stuck with it and aren't aware of competitors in its core market, once you take a toxic brand to a market where it does have visible competition people will try to avoid it.

    4. Piro

      Re: Windows RT

      Microsoft's collective delusion.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows RT

      ARM = Better power consumption = compact tablet device with long battery life

    6. xenny

      Re: Windows RT

      Lower power consumption than x86, and relative immunity from malware make it rather attractive IMHO.

      I've got an original Surface RT, and it's got steadily snappier with the release of updates over the past few months, something that the original reviews will never be revised to acknowledge.

      It gives me a tablet that is actually useful for creating business documents as well as watching media on in a hotel room for much less cost/weight than a laptop with comparable build quality.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows RT

      Possibly because MS do have a habit of making the third version of something they make the one which is good and they're trying to get into a market, not make a quick buck.

      By the way, I think there may be something wrong with your keyboard.

    8. timrichardson

      Re: Windows RT

      It's weird: iOS and Android upscaled from a phone OS which meant apps from day 1. Microsoft targetted the iPad while the market moved to smaller tablets; Windows RT has so many battles to win. Basically, the devices are too big and there is no software. Meanwhile, Windows Phone will be ready in the next 12 months for larger screens. Then RT is going to be very confused. I think this is why people see no future for it. While on the one hand Microsoft appears to believe in hybrid hardware (like the Surface Pro), it offers very specific and incompatible OS solutions: a user with a Windows Phone, an RT Tablet, and a Surface Pro would use four different operating systems (assuming Microsoft's dream scenario where the Surface Pro is used in both desktop and tablet mode).

      These will be converged but it sounds like it's 18 months away.

      But it runs Office. Sort of. That's it. The existence of RT is based around this differentiator: if you want Office (crippled) on an ARM device, you need RT.

      Windows RT seems like a bad decision. If Microsoft really had become more nimble, it would not have been so slow getting Windows Phone onto larger screens.

    9. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows RT

      BECAUSE IT STANDS FOR WINDOWS RE TRY

      THX

      STEVE B

  3. James 51 Silver badge

    In a few months MS is going to have two RT products. What are the odds they are going to keep both going and what are the odds that is the Surface that will win out? Unless Elop cares enough about this to fight its corner, can't see it surviving long.

    It's the inability to run things like sigil that would prevent me from buying RT which is a pity as it's in this end of the market we are seeing the most innovation.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    XOR

    "In addition, unless you have a volume licence, you can only use Office RT in a non-profit business environment. Redmond is expected to detail a roadmap for Office, including Office RT, in the next few days."

    "In the 2520, Nokia has actually developed a grown-up computer that makes RT viable in business for the first time "

    XOR. Without any doubt.

    1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      Re: XOR

      The clause "unless you have a volume licence" means that the two statements are not exclusive. Unless, that is, you are assuming that business users users DON'T have bulk licencing for MS Office already.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        Re: XOR

        @ Kristian Walsh

        For an individual or a small business, bulk licensing its to expensive (and check the rules here http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/licensing-options/open-license.aspx)

    2. RCUK

      Re: XOR

      Not entirely sure you are correct here. I believe companies with Office 365 subscriptions can also use Office on RT for business - so it's a pretty nice package for mobile productivity then. Nice though an iPad is you can do more from business point of view on RT & especially now have Outlook in 8.1

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Stop

        Re: XOR

        @ RCUK

        You are thinking medium-large companies, not individual-small businesses.

  5. AMB-York Silver badge
    FAIL

    Just use Windows Phone

    Given what a great job Nokia have done with Windows Phone, I'd love to see what they could do with one of these running WP8.1 rather than wasting time on RT.

    RT is like Google Chrome - nobody wants it, but nobody has the guts to kill it off.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      Re: Just use Windows Phone

      @AMB-York - "RT is like Google Chrome - nobody wants it, but nobody has the guts to kill it off."

      Fanboi troll fail is a fail.

      1. AMB-York Silver badge

        No Fanboi

        No Fanboi here - Windows wall to wall, including phone. Just have an independent viewpoint.

        1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nothing wrong with RT... nobody complains that iPads can't run OSX software (or Android has nothing but crappy social apps and games), even the original RT Surface was quite a good tablet, just a bit overpriced at launch.

    1. Tom 35 Silver badge

      There is a LOT wrong with RT.

      Anything desktop from it's big plus office to accessing anything in the control panel are crap without using the keyboard or at least a mouse.

      They will not let anyone write any desktop software.

      And the surface...

      You need a desk as it's too top heavy and floppy with the keyboard to use on your lap.

      It's too heavy to use for long as a tablet.

      To do actual work, my netbook is better (and a laptop that cost the same as the surface would be better).

      As a tablet, my Nexus 7 kicks its ass.

      That's why the Nexus 7 is with me right now, and the surface is sitting at home.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Anything desktop from it's big plus office to accessing anything in the control panel are crap without using the keyboard or at least a mouse."

        Rubbish - it all works fine with the touchscreen / onscreen keyboard.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "As a tablet, my Nexus 7 kicks its ass."

        In what way? Windows RT has a far more powerful and secure OS, and comes with a real version of Office.. And the RT tablet itself is superior.

        1. David Simpson 1

          Security? Someone is reading the tabloids too much!

          Real version of office ? Like Kingsoft Office or Quick Office?

    2. Joe Montana

      nobody complains that iPads can't run OSX software

      Apple never did anything to make people believe that the ipad would ever be capable of running OSX software, it was always a standalone product with its own identity.

      Anything branded as "windows" will cause people to believe that it's compatible with other products using the same branding, which causes disappointment and/or anger when users find out thats not the case.

    3. Goat Jam

      "Nothing wrong with RT... nobody complains that iPads can't run OSX "

      If you would bother to reign in your rampant fanboyism for a few seconds you might understand that the reason nobody expects iOS to run their mac applications is because apple deliberately marketed it as a seperate OS to avoid unecessary market confusion, which is something that MS has failed to do with inevitably spectacular results.

      Also, I recall that when the ipad was first announced there were plenty of numbskulls predicting epic levels of fail precisely because the ipad did not run full fat OSX. The levels of scoffing at the time were enormous.

      Those dingbats have all shut up about that now of course.

  7. DrXym Silver badge

    Still doesn't justify the price or the architecture

    People don't want Windows RT devices. They want Windows, or they want a mobile OS with lots of apps on it. Not something which offers neither.

    Given that netbooks used to sell for £200-250 I really don't understand why it's so hard to flog an Atom based tablet that runs genuine Windows 8 for the price this thing is retailing for.

    1. P0l0nium

      Re: Still doesn't justify the price or the architecture

      Re: flooging an atom based tablet that runs genuune Windows 8 for less than $499.......

      Your prayers are answered!

      http://www.amazon.com/Transformer-T100TA-C1-GR-10-1-Inch-Convertible-Touchscreen/dp/B00FFJ0HUE

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Still doesn't justify the price or the architecture

      Netbooks had 1000*600 screens with low brightness and poor viewing angles, the battery life wasn't that good, the trackpads were poor and the construction was usually pretty basic. This Nokia product has vastly superior specifications, and no fan. Not surprisingly, it costs more.

  8. Ralph B

    Really?

    Can an added SIM slot and LTE really make the difference between failure and success for Surface RT?

    I'm not sure I believe it myself.

    1. Bod

      Re: Really?

      This isn't Surface.

      1. Ralph B

        Re: Really?

        This isn't Surface.

        Well, it kinda is, you know?

  9. Tom7
    FAIL

    But

    But - and listen carefully here - it still costs FOUR HUNDRED POUNDS. For a consumer who wants to use this for web browsing, games and writing the odd letter, how is it £80 better than a Nexus 10? Or £100 better than a Galaxy Tab 3 10.1? Or £280 better than a Hudl?

    This thing is not aimed at the business market - for any organisation with less than about 5,000 employees and therefore a volume agreement you can't use Office for business - and yet Microsoft, sorry Nokia, are still pricing it hundreds of pounds above the consumer market. Who thinks this is clever?

    1. druck Silver badge
      Terminator

      Re: But

      One of these running crippled Windows RT for £400, or with a couple of Tesco club vouchers; a Hudl for each of the family. Easiest decision I'll make this year.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: But

        Yes I looked at the Hudl before I ordered a Surface 2....It was indeed a pretty easy decision.

        A Hudl might make do for a 5 year old, but its not fit for any serious use. Android too. At least the Surface runs some sort of Windows and a proper version of Office...

        1. David Simpson 1

          Re: But

          There are 5 or 6 version of office for Android, running some sort of Windows with no desktop software and no apps is hardly any kind of selling point.

          Most adults use Android because it does the job and is cheap, only snobbish tweens avoid it because they are so grown up and important ;-)

    2. Dave K Silver badge

      Re: But

      I largely agree with you, but you're a bit out with your volume agreements. My previous employer had an OVS agreement and had 250 employees. And believe me, an OVS agreement is useful when it comes to rolling out new versions of Office etc. without having to purchase, install and activate hundreds of individual copies!

      Other than that, I agree. And the problem (largely) IMO is the cost of the OS. When you're making and selling a device for a few hundred pounds, the difference between a free OS (Android) and a £100 OS is quite sizeable.

  10. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    For once, they speaketh the truth

    I give credit to Nokia for naming this thing aptly:

    2520 will be the year Windows RT will become popular.

    Good thing they are biding their time...

  12. Sil

    Seriously interesting

    This looks like a seriously interesting tablet for office workers & for personal users that use office.

    I must say as an anti RT guy I'm about to give it a chance even if I do regret it's not a 3770 Baytrail full windows tablet.

    I might consider it in addition to a standard notebook instead of a super expensive ultrabook.

  13. Mog0

    You can use office with Office 365 subscription too

    If you have a business office 365 subscription you get a licence for using Office RT for business use.

  14. Wam

    Interesting

    Sometimes I understand why Windows RT was conceived - when it was first announced I thought this kind of device would be useful. Obviously price / app availability / x86 incompatability etc. put people off big time, and still does. But I'll be keeping an eye on this one.

  15. Darren Barratt
    Happy

    Like the nokia styling here. Nearly enough to make me bite.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why don't you.....

    Try using RT with an open mind? It's NOT full windows, but I use it EVERY day and it does EVERYTHING that I need it to. I don't need a CAD / Photoshop on it. It's like buying a CD player and complaining it can't play vinyl LPs - RT does the job for me. Considering MOST people use laptops / tablets for email, web surfing and a bit of word-processing - this DOES all of that and will allow you to PRINT using a USB port or wirelessly and INCLUDES a version of MS Office. If that doesn't do what you need, get something that does what you want.

    I can never understand why people find the need to HATE things that don't affect them.

    1. Matt_payne666

      Re: Why don't you.....

      Its good to see peoples attitudes softening slightly... I had written off RT as useless until I got one for next to nothing and its great... it doesn't replace my laptop, but for the majority of things I do it does a more than adequate job...

      And when people see real word and find out that you can open and print office documents without any messing about they are very surprised, to the point where I had one person question the purchase of iPad for staff.

      Classic desktop is the easiest way to organise and shuffle files about, move them To a network share or USB drive, and all natively...

      1. Tom7

        Re: Why don't you.....

        "I had written off RT as useless until I got one for next to nothing and its great"

        Good for you. But you rather make the point for us. It might well be great, but not at the price Nokia is pitching it. If they want to sell consumer devices, they need to be in the £150 - £300 market segment, not starting at £400. The grandparent commenter might be perfectly correct - RT might well do all those things brilliantly - but a £100 no-brand Android tablet does them at least as well for the average user. Printing is the only thing that's been mentioned that RT does particularly better than Android, and even then most printer suppliers have an app for printing direct from an Android phone or tablet. So what makes RT at least £300 better?

    2. GitMeMyShootinIrons

      Re: Why don't you.....

      Welcome to the Register. You will never find a place so full of narrow minded folk anywhere else, except for the Daily Mail. The key difference is that while the Daily Fail readers are all generally of the same mind, here you're guarantied to upset someone, be they a Microsofty, Fandroid, Mactard or something else.

      RT is a reasonable, if flawed, concept for MS. They would have been better off scaling WinPhone up rather than Windows 8 down. Both of these products might have gained more from it. As an iPad owner already, I'm not in the market, but I'd have considered it, in the same way as I looked at phones recently and bought Nokia.

      Some people do look beyond prejudices and pick what suits their needs.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why don't you.....

      "It's NOT full windows,"

      It IS full Windows - just recompiled for Arm....

  17. plrndl

    Not for profit

    So it's a grown up business machine that you can't use for business?

    Insane.

    I see another $900,000,000 write-down coming.

    1. RCUK

      Re: Not for profit

      Respectfully I think you're wrong here.

      As I've replied previously and so have others - if you've got either Office 365 or Volume License then you can use RT & Office for business fine. There are a seriously large number of Office 365 users around & this is attractive who want light-weight, long battery and simple productivity that's compatible with everything in their organisation.

      So in fact a business machine that can be and is being used for business. It will take time but all a bit over the top to get excited about how this is a failure already.

  18. Steve Knox
    Facepalm

    No

    (official pricing for US ... $499 without and $648 with keyboard). It's one to take seriously.

    No. If you can take a $149 keyboard seriously, you need medication.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No

      @Steve Knox - "If you can take a $149 keyboard seriously, you need medication."

      The 4-hour spare battery for a laptop alone would cost you the $150. Getting a snap-on keyboard is a bonus.

  19. 20legend

    in the words of Mrs Brown.....

    that's nice......

  20. Stephen Channell
    Thumb Up

    Neat

    If I hadn't already bought a Lenovo Yoga 11 (at half-price), I'd probably buy one off-plan.

    Putting an extra battery in the cover is a neat idea for business travellers who are used to swapping battery on long trips, and flipping the mouse-pad over the back should make it very resilient to being dropped.

    While the Office licence is home/student, in practice that doesn't mean you can't do work on it, just that you must also have a regular PC licence.

    Having RDP and Remote-FX makes it a neat terminal for full-fat Windows.. which is why Windows-RT is hear to stay

  21. Tom 7 Silver badge

    Office 2013 RT is not designed for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities

    so the laptop doesn't mean business at all.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Office 2013 RT is not designed for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities

      "However, organizations who purchase commercial use rights or have a commercial license to Office 2013 suites that include Outlook can use Office 2013 RT for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities."

      Tom - you left out the rest :

      "However, organizations who purchase commercial use rights or have a commercial license to Office 2013 suites that include Outlook can use Office 2013 RT for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities."

      I'd presume that business users would be using a commercial version.

      1. Tom 35 Silver badge

        Re: Office 2013 RT is not designed for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities

        "purchase commercial use rights"

        Other then pages saying you could buy it, I was never able to find out how / how much, or even if it actually exists.

        Lots of smaller companies have not upgraded to 2013.

        If they have Office 365 you could buy a laptop and get full office and get some real work done.

        1. dogged
          WTF?

          Re: Office 2013 RT is not designed for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities

          If they have Office 365 you could buy a laptop and get full office and get some real work done.

          At that price, you could. For 4 hours until your battery died.

          1. Eguro

            Re: Office 2013 RT is not designed for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities

            [The post is required, and must contain letters.]

            *15

      2. Tom 7 Silver badge

        Re: Office 2013 RT is not designed for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities

        I might have left out the rest of but MS left out VBA which means its still not fit for even the 2bit business I've worked for.

        The people who are likely to road test this for a company are the very people who need VBA . Its not there.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    Golly

    If this review is correct, that this type of thing is ideal for limited productivity requirments (Office, Skype & Twitter) then three things spring to mind:-

    - That seems a lot of money for those purposes

    - Exactly what does Microkia bring to the party to deserve that price

    - Shuttleworth's idea of a docked phone for the same productivity-style requirements looks quite far sighted,

    But it seems an awfully risky proposition

  23. Just_this_guy

    I've seen an Android tablet - with keyboard - on sale for £50. I'm sure it's naff, performance-wise, but this Nokia costs TEN TIMES as much. Would it really feel TEN TIMES better?

    Granted, I speak as a "consumer", but if I've got £500 to spend on a tablet, RT is not even on the list!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Just_this_guy - "I've seen an Android tablet - with keyboard - on sale for £50. I'm sure it's naff, performance-wise, but this Nokia costs TEN TIMES as much. Would it really feel TEN TIMES better?"

      If you need to edit documents and spreadsheets, this tablet is probably infinitely better, since you won't be able to do that to any useful degree on your $50 tablet.

  24. Bob Gender

    AltGrrrrrrrrrr

    That file manager will come in handy then, so I can find charmap.exe and do a Euro symbol?

    1. Mayhem

      Re: AltGrrrrrrrrrr

      Actually if you look at the photo beneath, you can clearly see an Alt Gr key, and the Euro symbol is still the third symbol on the 4, same as a normal UK keyboard.

      In other words, unless the author was talking about a built in soft keyboard and not the external keyboard ... I have no idea what he was on about..

  25. TheFiddler

    Linux

    Has anyone succeeded flashing these Windows RT tablets with a Linux distro? The limited Windows RT apps may be a pain but a linux desktop with the accompanying healthy amount of available applications and that battery life would be awesome for the money.

    1. Tank boy
      Linux

      Re: Linux

      One would wonder why Canonical, the Red Hat, or even the Mint folks folks hadn't thought to do this first. It seems like a match made in tablet heaven. By that I mean having a tablet purpose built to run Linux (whatever flavor). Very puzzling.

      1. Andrew Orlowski (Written by Reg staff)

        Re: Re: Linux

        I was thinking something similar.

        I could have done everything I've done here in Abu Dhabi from an RT tablet, and so probably from Ubuntu too. (Although I'd have to use an Evernote clone). I used to enjoy using Ubuntu 10.10. Then Unity happened.

      2. MrMur

        Re: Linux

        I think secureboot is permanently on on RT tablets. I don't know if the secureboot can be gotten around on the RT tablet. Other tablets are available.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Linux

      "Has anyone succeeded flashing these Windows RT tablets with a Linux distro"

      No, not so far - Windows RT is very secure. It's not like the Linux world where devices are hacked immediately on launch...

      Even with the lowest level access to the OS, it is so far not possible to change it and have it still boot....

  26. Uwe Dippel

    Serious?

    I mean, the review sounds pretty nice and even somewhat sound.

    What bugs me is the File Manager laudatio. What the heck is good in having a "full file manager"? (I guess the author meant a Redmond-one).

    How can I take your review serious after that? Is a "full file manager" what is actually needed on a useable tablet? And why would an alternative render it less suitable?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Serious?

      ... because on iOS the file management is a complete cluster fuck* which means that I have to plug my tablet into a PC if I want to move files or to or off it it. If you want to transfer from tablet to tablet then you probably can't if you don't also have a laptop. This makes it a bit of pain by itself ...

      The ability to push files to a USB key natively without needing iTunes from the device (or pull from a key) would be "really useful". I mean hell, its got a normal USB port and I can plug in a printer - sweet =)

      * Caveat - it may have improved since I last tried - I gave up on my iPad for anything involving more than 1 or 2 files and switched to my laptop, as it was generally a much less painful experience. Nothing has yet convinced me to try again ...

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Serious?

      I guess it means it's not iOS-like where each app has its own file storage area and it's annoying trying to get it to open a file with an app that didn't save it.

  27. John Fielder

    i like rt

    i love my surface rt. it is a great portable device. no, it does not do everything a laptop/desktop with windows will do, but no one critisises the ipad for not doing evéything an osx desktop does. IT'S A TABLET, but as it doesmore than other tablets, everyone seems to think it should do everything. yes, you cannot install photoshop on it, but most (traditional) windows software would fill up the storage anyway. you can charge it, plug in a usb device (including a hard disc) and connect to an hdmi monitor ALL AT THE SAME TIME. try that with another tablet.

    1. druck Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: i like rt

      Even the cheap as chips hudl has both a micro USB and micro HDMI, allowing both to be used at once.

  28. Philip Lewis

    Is this device produced by the handset division (soon to be a free give away with the purchase of Stephen Elop), or from the leftover Nokia?

    Sometime soon we will need to differentiate ... or not.

  29. jmk89

    Is it just me that thinks that if they just provided a way to write desktop applications for RT (I dont mean run existing ones, I mean write new ones) RT would be a winner?

    Im guessing Intel wont let them, which means WinRT is forever crippled, which means no sale!

    1. Tom 35 Silver badge

      Noting to do with intel, It's all Microsoft and their wish to make you use the app store and use not-metro apps.

      They also block low level access for developers so no VPN client (that might have made the thing a bit useful to me) or anything like Firefox.

  30. oldcoder

    Something wrong with that pricing...

    According some currency translations:

    499 Euro is $682... and that is the price with the keyboard. The article reports $648... a $34 discrepancy.

    The 399 Euro is $545.644 (without the keyboard), The article report $499 without the keyboard... a $46 discrepancy.

    I'm used to Microsoft over charging for overseas sales... but still, this seems a bit odd, It is supposed to still be a foreign manufacture - I wasn't expecting the MS "tax" on it for overseas sales yet...

    1. Andrew Orlowski (Written by Reg staff)

      Re: Something wrong with that pricing...

      You've overlooked VAT, the price Nokia quotes is "before subsidies and local duties and taxes".

      Mr Osborne must have has cut.

  31. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. stim

      Re: One word...Outlook

      Since Surface 2 was released yesterday, you will now find Outlook included as part of Win 8.1 RT.

      now u can go buy one! ;)

    2. RealBigAl

      Re: One word...Outlook

      "Windows 8 RT doesn't run Outlook."

      Surely that's a good thing....

  32. Robert E A Harvey

    connectivity?

    Can I plug in a USB peripheral? memory stick? share data with clients?

    Can I use a USB cable to charge my phone? Headset?

    Can I connect a bluetooth headset and make a phone call? or a 3.5mm headphone/mic & join a conference call?

    Can I connect a video projector on a client site? with audio?

    Any way to use cat5 internet connections? for customer sites that don't offer wifi?

    No? not really a business device then.

    1. dogged
      FAIL

      Re: connectivity?

      > Can I plug in a USB peripheral? memory stick? share data with clients?

      yes.

      > Can I use a USB cable to charge my phone? Headset?

      yes

      > Can I connect a bluetooth headset and make a phone call? or a 3.5mm headphone/mic & join a conference call?

      Yes to both.

      > Can I connect a video projector on a client site? with audio?

      Yes, via micro-HDMI

      > Any way to use cat5 internet connections? for customer sites that don't offer wifi?

      Yes, via USB->Ethernet.

      > No? not really a business device then.

      Except yes to all.

      You're not good at this, are you?

      1. Eguro
        Paris Hilton

        Re: connectivity?

        Forgive me for asking a question, but who down-votes the above post?

        If the corrections he's made are wrong, then sure downvote - but for the love all things post a reply correcting mistakes!

        If the corrections he's made are spot on, then are you pissed because he made a semi-snarky remark at the end, or because you really wanted the tablet to be unable to do those things, and having someone shatter that dream pissed you off to no end?

        I'm seriously asking, because I do not get it

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: connectivity?

        @dogged - "Except yes to all.

        You're not good at this, are you?"

        =====================================

        I've never held one, and even I knew the answers were almost universally "yes" to his questions. The only one I wasn't sure about was the 3.5mm headphone/mic.

        It's actually a pretty amazingly capable device, when you get right down to it.

        1. dogged

          Re: connectivity?

          I'm actually starting to wonder if Robert E A Harvey hadn't got this mixed with an iPad, which would have returned a "no" on all questions.

  33. stim

    positive..

    Wow, a positive article on The Reg about MS and a number of positive comments too... Times r changin'.

    Personally i think RT is great, my Surface 2 arrived yesterday. I would urge people to use it for a few months before bashing it...

  34. ThatGuy

    MS are making the same mistake Nokia made

    Having too many Operating Systems. Everyone else uses the same OS for phones and tablets. Nokia has been more successful with WinPho than MS has been with WinRT. This tells me they should just kill RT.

    1. websey

      Re: MS are making the same mistake Nokia made

      I'm pretty sure Apple dont use OSX on the phone or tablets

      and I'm pretty sure Google dont use chrome os on phones and tablets

      So you are just talking nonsense mate

  35. Gerhard den Hollander

    Lync

    No lync integration ... that was about the only reason (for me) to consider this ....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lync

      The Windows RT Lync client shipped a year ago....

      http://www.neowin.net/news/lync-for-windows-8-and-rt-app-now-available

  36. Sheep!
    Stop

    "So RT means you can't run x86-64 Windows binaries"

    So what's the point of it then? Surely the point of going the Windows route in buying a tablet is to replicate the usability of the desktop OS and have a device that can access and run the same suite of programs. They really are cutting their own nuts off with these systems. A few people who just want a tablet with a couple of "happy apps" and not much more will like it, but it's £300 more expensive than an android device that could offer the same. Either MS want a seemless experience across devices or they want a toy for playing Angry Birds on. Currently the RT slabs are the latter.

  37. Jagged

    Nice looking bit of kit. Shame M$ won't let it do anything I want.

  38. a pressbutton

    Windows RT will not be killed by MS

    ... because it is the future.

    In 2-3 years time high-end ARM based phones will be powerful enough to perform most things you do on a PC / Laptop except the battery will last for a couple of days.

    At some client sites, Ipads are already used for about 80% of the time.

    All you need is a dock that provides keyboard/monitor/network when at your desk

    Windows / Office on Intel does not have a guaranteed place in that future.

    WRT / Win Phone might.

    Apple already calls it's phone 'desktop-class' and that is for a reason.

    1. Getriebe

      Re: Windows RT will not be killed by MS

      "All you need is a dock that provides keyboard/monitor/network when at your desk" exists already - albeit for Pro and Pro 2 - and a nice bit of kit it is. I reckon it will come to Surace 2 as well.

      On RT as the future - yes for end points - it allows them to leave the years of x86 behind. Well thats what I hear from our Seattle based MSFT bloke

  39. Louis Schreurs BEng
    Megaphone

    First get rid of buggy OS and software and get some automatic/reliable backup.

    This tablet and phablet nonsene is just an expansion to reality from what Ster Trek c.s. has shown to the innocent public and those who can afford it want it, and they'll use it for whatever is not necessary.

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