back to article Can you trust 'NSA-proof' TrueCrypt? Cough up some dough and find out

Security researchers are raising funds to conduct an independent audit of TrueCrypt, the popular disk encryption utility. TrueCrypt is widely used as a tool to strongly encrypt and decrypt entire drives, partitions or files in a virtual disk. It can also hide volumes of data and said to be easy to use. The source code for the …

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  1. Chris G Silver badge

    Honey pot

    In these days of cynicism and paranoia, and in view of recent revelations the thought that something like Truecrypt could have originated from one or other of the world's security agencies seems quite valid.

    1. Anonymous (Noel) Coward
      Big Brother

      Re: Honey Pot

      Chris G opined: "the thought that something like Truecrypt could have originated from one or other of the world's security agencies seems quite valid."

      Indeed! What better way to spy on the world than to offer it free "open source" encryption which (a) cannot be compiled from its open source and (b) contains unexplained encrypted code in its downloadable binary but is nonetheless "guaranteed" to have no back doors ?

      "Shake for me girl! I wanna be your backdoor man!"

      1. JetSetJim Silver badge
        Black Helicopters

        Re: Honey Pot

        Perhaps they might also pretend to do a very public "audit" of the code - with the added bonus that the members of the public are conned into paying for it....

      2. Ian McNee
        Linux

        Re: Honey Pot

        @Noel and Jim:

        (i) it's the Windows version that is very tricky to compile from source - and there are both benign and suspicious explanations for this;

        (ii) Matthew Green has a good reputation technically and ethically - it doesn't seem likely that he would be involved in some game to pretend to audit TrueCrypt (unless you take the completely unworkable "trust no-one" tin-foil hat position).

    2. Muhammad Imran/mi1400

      Re: Honey pot

      In few years the next revelation will be like how intel was providing NSA a backdoor at level no one imagined.. i.e. closest to metal .. right incide their cpus... they might be mixing known info defused with encrypted info. As known info can be figured out from encryted data hence deriving the key. can anyone calibrate the traffic between NSA and Intel headoffice servers!?!

  2. Brian Miller Silver badge
    WTF?

    Unnamed qualified professionals vs amateurs?

    In the decades I've been in the software industry, I have met so many amateur qualified professionals, it's just not funny. "Oh, look, I have this fancy degree but I can't actually do anything that my degree supposedly certifies me as qualified to do."

    Not funny.

    Kenn White and Matthew Green need to say who it is that will do the audit, and why they've been chosen. I have personally worked on a project where the source has come to me in a 20Mb Zip file, compiled across multiple paths, and was just a pure mess of 2/3 C and 1/3 8086 assembly, and the compiler company had gone out of business. I got that entire product line compiling again. So, yeah, I'm asking the question, "who audits this?"

    Sure, I'm all for an audit, but so far this isn't something that I would support with money.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Unnamed qualified professionals vs amateurs?

      They haven't said WHO they're hiring because they're still in the process of contacting prospects. IOW, they don't know yet. Once the funding builds up and they get some contracts, then they'll be able to list names.

    2. Gordon 10 Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Unnamed qualified professionals vs amateurs? @Brian

      Whilst I understand your view I can help but point out that its flawed. Unless they pick someone you personally know and trust you are a still going to be in the same boat.

      Even if they pick someone you approve of - the vast majority of people arent going to be to share or verify that view so as a criteria for funding the effort or not its largely meaningless.

    3. Werner McGoole

      Re: Unnamed qualified professionals vs amateurs?

      This is a very good point. I think everyone agrees that open source is now the only way one can potentially gain any assurance of no backdoors. But you still need to look very closely at the code and how it behaves - and, of course, you also need confidence in the audit process itself.

      So a program to publicly audit key pieces of FOSS for security weaknesses looks like a good way to go and Truecrypt is certainly a good test case. But I think the real work that needs doing next is on the auditing procedure.

      How do you produce a public audit process that is itself secure against possible attempts to infiltrate it and overlook security weaknesses? I suggest you probably need at least two independent and well-known (and trusted) experts, probably with support, to produce independent and public reports. Then you may need a separate independent committee to review those reports and draw attention to (and investigate) any discrepancies.

      I see the involvement of many people as being essential in building a web of trust that can't be easily subverted. We should perhaps start to see support for auditing security software as being just as important as supporting the writing of the code. If we had as many people doing the former as the latter, we wouldn't be in this mess.

      At the same time, we'll no doubt continue to rely on penetration testing by individual security researchers, as we know that regularly turns up obscure ways to defeat security. The idea of a bug bounty is a good one here, I think.

      Just some random ideas, really, but I think this is a key area of trust that urgently needs attention.

  3. Majid
    Devil

    Almost unsolvable problem.

    Even if you have all the code, and reviewed all the code, you are still compiling it with a compiler in binary form.

    So then you would need to compile the compiler again, with another compiler, but you have that compiler in binary form, so you can't trust that one either. So there's a chicken and an egg problem.

    This problem is probably solvable by writing your bootstrap compiler and linker in assembler (have fun doing that, see ya in a few years), and using that to compile the gnu-c compiler, and then use that compiler to compile truecrypt.

    But then again, you are still using IO functions from your developers os.. So maybe you need to recompile that first as well.. sigh...

    I have an easier solution, if you don't want people to know some things, don't tell em, don't write it down, and certainly don't store it on a computer.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Almost unsolvable problem.

      "I have an easier solution, if you don't want people to know some things, don't tell em, don't write it down, and certainly don't store it on a computer."

      And if you have a bad memory or the information's not easy to memorize (like random data--poor fit for Memory Theater), you're basically hosed?

      Anyway, it is possible to set up some chain of trust. You just need to hand-assemble something that can process a few bits of assembler code, use that to create a means to do more of it, and build up from there. Or you can hand-disassemble one of the low-level steps, verify it, then use the verified tool. Then you can take on a compiler with assembler code and build on up. And you can do all this from a bare-bones OS or from a setup where direct access is used, bypassing the OS. Just saying there are ways that don't have to take years. Weeks, a month or two, maybe, but not necessarily years.

      1. Khaptain Silver badge

        Re: Almost unsolvable problem.

        I agree with Charles, the solution lies in the disassembly of the compiled code.

        The algorithm for encryption is known, it should be possible to create a "theoretic "byte code projection of the few funcitons that exist, these in turn should be compared to the compiled byte code.

        After disassembly of the public compiled code.

        Each individual assembly function should be compared to the logic of the orginal assembler or C code. The logic must match, no extra routines or unnecessary comprisons shoud be seen.

        The main elements :

        How many decrypting functions exist, more than 1, Red Flag.

        Which functions make calls to the decrypting function. Any more than 1 or two, start asking question.

        Which functions handle the secret keycode - how does the function handle the keycode. Leading Space stripping, UCASING or lcasing, reversal, byte code comparissons, individual comparissons etc.... Red Flag.

        What are the parameters types sent to the decryption function.

        etc

        etc

        etc

        I would agree though that it would be painstaking work but definately possible especially when you have the original code.

        I would also put a small mention out to +ORC's and his Martini-Wodkas...

      2. tony2heads
        Go

        poor memory

        If I am CORRECT you can get on your high HORSE and use BATTERY to STAPLE it into your memory

        http://correcthorsebatterystaple.net/

        (By the way I got this as an answer:

        Bare-Miss-Puzzle-Pile-3

        It sounds distinctly like the coder had a sense of humour)

        Obligatory http://xkcd.com/936/

    2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Re: Almost unsolvable problem.

      Even if you have all the code, and reviewed all the code, you are still compiling it with a compiler in binary form.

      In the real world, this is not actually seriously a problem. It can be defeated in theory....

      Countering "Trusting Trust"

      ...and I actually don't think a compiler exists that has enough swiss army knife functionality to look out for a few dozens programs just to put backdoors into the crypto parts unseen. Ken Thomson's initial idea was to finagle the lowly "login" program, which sounds feasible. Finagling GPG etc. via that method sounds like it needs a AI module in the package.

    3. Suricou Raven

      Re: Almost unsolvable problem.

      What makes you so confident your own memory is secure? There are plenty of ways to get people to talk. Bribery, blackmail, drugs, and let us not forget simple old-fashioned pain.

    4. ShelLuser

      @Majid

      "Even if you have all the code, and reviewed all the code, you are still compiling it with a compiler in binary form.

      So then you would need to compile the compiler again, with another compiler, but you have that compiler in binary form, so you can't trust that one either. So there's a chicken and an egg problem."

      Although not solely related to security this approach is actually being used in FreeBSD (only learned this pretty recent myself).

      If you compile a FreeBSD kernel (which is part of the source code for the OS) or the entire OS itself the first thing which is being done is compiling the base components which are required for building. These get placed in /usr/obj and from that moment on everything else is build using those new set of tools.

      As mentioned this is mainly done for optimization and not so much security, but I suppose one could argue that this could provide a little(?) extra where trust in the build tools is concerned.

      Still, in the end a bit offtopic considering that FreeBSD doesn't use TrueCrypt but relies on gbde (GEOM based Disk Encryption) and the geli cryptographic subsystems. (though TrueCyrpt is available as well as a separate program).

    5. Sooty

      Re: Almost unsolvable problem.

      if you want a horror story look at what Ken Thompson did inside Bell Labs, and this is probably childs play compard to what is possible now, 30+ years later.

      An early unix C compiler contained code that would recognize when the login command was being recompiled and insert some code recognizing a specific password allowing him in.

      He also made the compiler recognise when it was compiling a version of itself, and automatically insert the code to do all this again. Having done this once, he was then able to recompile the compiler from the original sources; the hack perpetuated itself invisibly, leaving the back door in place and active but with no trace in any of the source code.

      details are published in “Reflections on Trusting Trust”, Communications of the ACM 27, 8 (August 1984), pp. 761--763 (text available at http://www.acm.org/classics/)

      1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

        Re: Almost unsolvable problem.

        I was about to comment on the same thing myself. It hardly seems paranoid, when it has already been publicly described, does it?

        http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/04/15/strange-loops-dennis-ritchie-a/

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Let me save you some time and money.

    If TrueCrypt is an American company, look elsewhere.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Let me save you some time and money.

      Certain countries on the Mediterranean shall be included in this set, then.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Let me save you some time and money.

      Actually that doesn't save time at all, because nobody knows who heck they are. This could either be a good thing or a bad one.

  5. btrower

    Disband the NSA

    One way to make things NSA-proof is to disband the NSA.

    We are funding a campaign of terror against our own citizens. It will be sure to stop (at least from the NSA) if it no longer exists.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Disband the NSA

      "It will be sure to stop (at least from the NSA) if it no longer exists."

      So?

      Same people funding, same people spying, same game, different name.

      On the other hand if the people at the top were to get locked up for their crimes (after due process of course, e.g. 5 years in Guantanamo), that *might* encourage others not to start up in the same game.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Disband the NSA

      btrower: "We are funding a campaign of terror against our own citizens."

      And you're free funding a campaign of paranoia. Have you stopped to think that maybe you're working in the same direction as the NSA?

    3. Cliff

      Re: Disband the NSA

      I have to say it's kind of sweet that many Americans seemed to have so much faith that their spy agencies weren't spying on them all along. I can see why recent revelations rattled so many of you, and it must have been genuinely quite nice to believe the assurances and platitudes for so long.

      I've always assumed that traffic was routinely monitored not so much through paranoia (by all means watch my traffic, really don't care) but more... well they would, wouldn't they? They exist to spy, they are accountable to get best value for money, this way is cheap and effective compared with building up country-wide informant networks, probably nicer for the population too by and large. Pay people to spy, that's what they will do.

  6. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    1. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: Or we could give up and just OBEY?

      "who am I to disbelieve them?"

      Well, hopefully someone who read the paper he edited. Why would you assume that the security services were any more trustworthy or competent than any other government department?

  7. asdf Silver badge

    wait a minute

    I thought part of the NSA's mission is supposedly to be protecting Americans. How is it protecting Americans by weakening their privacy and protection from adversaries by weakening the tools they use for protection? Ok fine I get it their only mission is protecting the US government from the people but even then I bet some of their subterfuge has hurt some of the other government departments as well. Just the fact an ex general is running the program pretty much explains everything.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      Re: wait a minute

      "I thought part of the NSA's mission is supposedly to be protecting Americans. How is it protecting Americans by weakening their privacy and protection from adversaries by weakening the tools they use for protection? "

      Easy.

      "We had to destroy their privacy and sense of safety in order to keep their information more private and their lives more safe."

      But IRL "Why should we give a s**t how the American people feel? We didn't bother asking them when we took their privacy in the first place. "

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: wait a minute

        The NSA's mission is to protect Americans from Americans.

        Rather like the way their Constitution allows Guns to do the same.

    2. Crazy Operations Guy

      Re: wait a minute

      "Just the fact an ex general is running the program pretty much explains everything."

      The NSA is part of the Department of Defense, which is why a General is running it. Its was a spin-off of the various spy agencies created in WW2.

      They aren't specifcally fraid of American citizens, but they don't trust them either. There have been a handful of terrorists that were American citizens, so now the NSA et. al. are operating under the assumption that anyone could be a terrorist and thus don't trust anyone, unless they have a security clearance that they have verified.

    3. This post has been deleted by its author

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Very odd...

    The Windows version appends 64k of encrypted supposedly 'random' data to the end of a Truecrypt volume, whereas the linux version pads it with 64k of encrypted zeros (which is presumably verifiable by decrypting them)?

    The Truecrypt team are meant to be encryption specialists... have they never heard of 'nothing up my sleeve' numbers? Or realise encrypted zeros are indistinguishable from encrypted random numbers?

    Definitely something funny going on there. I'd be interested to hear their explanation for the difference in behaviour, as well as why they thought it necessary, and whether they appreciate unexplained data attached to a volume which isn't verifiably information-less is likely to cause concern in todays environment.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Very odd...

      Very worrying

    2. DropBear Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Very odd...

      " have they never heard of 'nothing up my sleeve' numbers?" - you mean like Pi? I don't trust that one either, I've heard the NSA has its hand in geometry too. They say Archimedes was onto them, and they were the ones to get him killed...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Very odd...

      So I'm looking at the format spec and it looks like the last thing in the file should be the backup hidden volume header. If no hidden volume exists, it should be random data. (This is to provide plausible deniability for volumes that DO have one.) But you're saying that on Linux it's zeros instead? I'm not sure what that points to exactly, but it's certainly odd, and sloppy.

  9. Ketlan
    Windows

    Did I miss something?

    'The 'problem' with TrueCrypt is the same problem we have with any popular security software in the post-September-5 era'

    Sorry to change the subject from all this intelligent chit-chat about cryptography but what happened on September 5th? Sainsbury's delivered my shopping nice and early for a change but I'm sure that can't be it.

    1. Crazy Operations Guy

      Re: Did I miss something?

      I think maybe that was when Snowden start publishing stuff?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Did I miss something?

        Nothing changed when Snowden starting talking. NSA is what you saw. The shadow government(s) you do not see because you don't want to. It's funny to see everyone shocked and scrambling. It's laughable and pathetic. You'd rather be ignorant. So when they shutdown the NSA will everything be all rosy again? Perhaps you should be a little more simple minded and recognise the pattern. It's not going to change any time soon. Get used to it.

        1. Intractable Potsherd

          Re: Did I miss something?

          " It's not going to change any time soon. Get used to it."

          Sent to this forum by your friends in the intelligence community.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hows about?

    Linux malloc nulls returned block of memory before returning, Windoze equivalent doesn't?

    What is this block of memory used for?

    1. Crazy Operations Guy

      Re: Hows about?

      Windows gives out zero'ed blocks of memory, so that can't be it, unless they wrote their own memory allocation function.

      It could be a decryption key or it could be a checksum, a disk signature, or a copy of track 0.

      1. Steve the Cynic Silver badge

        Re: Hows about?

        "Windows gives out zero'ed blocks of memory, "

        *Windows* may give out zeroed blocks of memory - I don't recall because it has been a long time since I needed to allocate memory directly from Windows itself(*) - but so what? malloc() is not a system call, especially on Windows. It is part of the C runtime library, and on Windows it normally carves up big blocks of memory allocated from the OS. But, being malloc(), it doesn't do anything special with the contents (except in debug builds, where they are often poisoned with some arbitrary value - Visual C++ uses 0xCD if memory serves, to produce a 32-bit (or 64-bit on Win64) value that can't be used as a valid pointer to anything.(**)). In particular, except in the poisoning case, it doesn't vape the previous contents...

        (*) It is even longer since I relied on the contents of a memory block allocated by malloc() being anything but 'uninitialised'. If you want guaranteed values in your allocated memory, use calloc().

        (**) OK, when running a Win32 program on Win64, with certain marks on the .EXE, pointers could be from anywhere in the 32-bit address space, but this value was chosen when Win32 was king and there wasn't any Win64 on x86 because there wasn't any x64. At that time, .EXEs marked appropriately could have access to 3GB of address space, and 0xCDCDCDCD is in the fourth GB...

  11. channel extended
    Thumb Up

    Paying for it.

    If it was legit, Truecrypt could easily afford the code review. If they volunteered the 25K that would go a long way to reassuring me there was nothing to hide.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Paying for it.

      From the billions they receive from giving away free open-source software?

      1. Werner McGoole

        Re: Paying for it.

        Or maybe from the billions they get from the US government for giving away free open-source software?

        That sort of review might not end up being very independent, might it?

  12. BlueGreen

    sounds good

    I'll donate.

  13. TXITMAN
    Big Brother

    It only takes one

    One NSA friendly insider is all it takes to break into the vault. Instead of centralized systems that big government loves, we should rely on our own localized systems.

  14. harmjschoonhoven
    Black Helicopters

    Dependencies

    Building TrueCrypt from the tarball TrueCrypt_7.1a_Source.tar.gz comes with several requirements inter alia:

    RSA Security Inc. PKCS #11 Cryptographic Token Interface (Cryptoki) 2.20 header files (available at ftp://ftp.rsasecurity.com/pub/pkcs/pkcs-11/v2-20).

    An audit should take this into account. BTW FTP is blocked by my firewall by default.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    TC's silence

    This is a no brainer to me. If the compiled binary TC supply has an extra 64K block of data that neither the source code nor TC can not or will not explain, then by definition, TC can not be trusted.

    TC's silence about this matter proves to me that either :

    A) they do understand why trust and openness is paramount in a security tool

    B) they have something to hide

    TC have just invalidated themselves through their silence. I don't have to be some sort of security expert or even a programmer to conclude this - its common sense.

  16. Velv Silver badge
    Childcatcher

    I'm in no way attempting to condone any agency spying on anyone else, but using TrueCrypt or any other encryption tool is about what you are really trying to protect yourself against. The casual or everyday loss.

    In reality you are millions of time more likely to have your laptop lost or stolen, and your data on it will potentially fall into the hands of multiple criminals. You shouldn't be making it easy for them to read your data. Disk encryption will beat most attackers, and they are never going to put the resources into cracking your disk on the off chance your data is "interesting" to them.

    If you REALLY have something to hide from the NSA et al, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place. You DO have a right to privacy, and that should be taken seriously, but you absolutely need to get into perspective what the real threats against you are.

    1. zooooooom

      "If you REALLY have something to hide from the NSA et al, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

      That joint, hooker, tax dodge, transference of speeding ticket to spouse, or particularly distasteful porn - yes the one with the horse - probably isn't that much interest to the spooks - it would look really bad on them if they started sending that shit to the fuzz. OTOH, it might come in useful later so lets not be too hasty to delete it.

      The reason this kind of thing is scary, is that if "The Government" knows more about you, than you know about them, your ability - everyone's ability - to enact democratic process is reduced - the material they have on file about you suddenly becomes useful for political reasons.

      1. bitrat

        My thoughts exactly.....LOL the cartoon image I keep getting in my head though, is the NSA watching the Chinese watching the Koreans watching the Malaysians watching the Australians, etc etc....no wonder they need those gigantic server farms ;*p

    2. Ant Evans

      Legit

      Roughtly a quarter of the world's population live in police states where being in possession of the wrong ideas can get you killed, or, if you're lucky, make you wish you were dead.

      So, no.

      1. bitrat

        Re: Legit

        Yes....and in most of those places, people can't discuss these issues internationally as we are now.....hopefully that will change.....

        Point well taken - that's what Tor is for, I suppose....include whistleblowers in your list.....what if someone wants to report corruption, but they don't want to give up their freedom, possibly their lives like Ed Snowden or Anabel Hernandez?

    3. Adam Inistrator

      "If you REALLY have something to hide from the NSA et al, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place. You DO have a right to privacy, and that should be taken seriously, but you absolutely need to get into perspective what the real threats against you are."

      True, the average man has no need of protection against NSA/GCQ but whistlenblowers DO need it. For example we have the apparent suicide of a government employee in UK over leakage of damaging information about our governments involvement in Iraq. OUR SOCIETY DOES NEED PRIVACY!

      1. bitrat

        Agree 100%

  17. spot

    Can we please not call it an extra 64K block of data, it's padding to the next 64K boundary.

    An encrypted block of zeros will be can be verified to be zeros by the key owner and it carries no information despite being pseudo-random in appearance. Finding out whether the Windows version incorporates information there will only come from disassembling the compiled code, just looking at the source is irrelevant.

    1. Caesarius
      Alert

      So we know the plaintext?

      I thought known plaintext attacks were considerably easier than unknown. Doesn't that actually make the Linux version less secure? And while the Windows version doesn't suffer the known plaintext vulnerability, the "random" plaintext is not yet verified. So we're not happy either way yet.

  18. Shakes

    Extra bytes in binary

    Could the extra bytes perhaps be a signature?

    From the Truecrypt FAQ:

    As TrueCrypt is open-source software, independent researchers can verify that the source code does not contain any security flaw or secret 'backdoor'. Can they also verify that the official executable files were built from the published source code and contain no additional code?

    Yes, they can. In addition to reviewing the source code, independent researchers can compile the source code and compare the resulting executable files with the official ones. They may find some differences (for example, timestamps or embedded digital signatures) but they can analyze the differences and verify that they do not form malicious code.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Extra bytes in binary

      I think this is part of the problem though isn't it? When independent researchers DO compile the code they are unable to produce the same binaries that TC are offering for download on their websites (and not just differences in timestamps).

      So the question is, what's causing the differences in the binaries? Extra code? Differences in compilers? If indeed TC are injecting something extra into their own built binaries, what's it doing? That's what's causing many eyebrows to be raised.

      I believe TOR shows how this can be done - they give you the source & compiler specs and let you build it yourself to compare against the binaries they ship.

  19. Joe Harrison Silver badge

    If you don't like it, overwrite it

    If you don't like the mysterious 64K then just overwrite it with a chunk of mp3. Either Truecrypt will stop working or it won't, which should tell you something in itself.

    1. Moonshine

      Re: If you don't like it, overwrite it

      Agreed. This is a very good first step which is relatively simple. It doesn't conclusively prove anything but if TC keeps working then it raises suspicion a little higher.

    2. bitrat

      Re: If you don't like it, overwrite it

      Here's a question for you encryption buffs - what about multilayer encryption....eg using gpg4win or some other PGP - type encryption to encrypt data, then putting that file into truecrypt......is it just the same problem of possible back doors, or would that help?

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maybe the EFF would like to chip in?

  21. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Audit the source? Nobody *runs* the source, they run binaries

    > why an audit of TrueCrypt is needed and arguably even overdue

    And as soon as the developers come up with a new version, the auditing needs to be all over again.

    However, what's worse is if someone brings out a TrueCrypt virus. One that only attacks that particular program and inserts a backdoor into installed copies (or some other binary it depends on). You can have audited source - but that's no use if the environment the program is running on is insecure and is therefore open to having the binary attacked, post-audit.

    The only audit that a user could trust would be of an entire system: O/S, applications+libraries and TrueCrypt. Then as soon as any of those are changed, upgraded or patched, the whole audit becomes invalidated. Oh, and as for proprietary binary-only drivers, codecs or libraries: don't even think about installing them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Audit the source? Nobody *runs* the source, they run binaries

      This is what diff and checksums were invented for.

    2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: Audit the source? Nobody *runs* the source, they run binaries

      "with a new version, the auditing needs to be all over again"

      That is why you have an automated process, one where the agreed compilers and build environment are used and you can check that the binary coming out of the audit system matches the download version for a given code release.

      Then your review of the source code changes is a meaningful activity.

      But until the code has been independently audited by cryptographic experts (ideally not from the USA, etc, where there is a justifiable suspicion of court-ordered tampering) it is hard to trust the system, even as compiled from source, not to have either a foolish or deliberate flaw that makes the security much less than the password.

      "a TrueCrypt virus. One that only attacks that particular program and inserts a backdoor into installed copies"

      Really, you don't think that a simple key logger to grab the password would be easier and more deniable? If your machine has been compromised, even by a user-space program for your account, then ANYTHING you do from then onwards is, by definition, insecure.

      1. bitrat

        Re: Audit the source? Nobody *runs* the source, they run binaries

        Hmmmm....so true.....is there any way (I mean a really dependable way) to detect keyloggers? For all I know, they come guilt into windows 8, etc ;*p

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    TrueCrypt is good

    But no on it's own. The unthinking masses will go "Oh, but plausible deniability!" Yeah well, that's for nowt when the OS grasses you up.

    Imagine you mount your "hidden" volume to drive E: and open some file in Word or Paint or whatever. "E:\Secret\Codename-Razorbill.txt"

    Close it, unmount the hidden volume.

    Well done, the presence of that file is now obvious to anyone who gets hold of your computer (or has a virus/trojan running on it) and has a shufty your "most recently used" list. To either the bad guys find out (electrodes to the scrotum) or the cops do (you go to jail under RIPA).

    This is just one example of how a single tool simply isn't enough.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: TrueCrypt is good

      AC : I dont use it, but I understand that it allows you to encrypt an entire OS in a partition. So the OS itself cant grass you up unless it can itself be unencryped and started.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: TrueCrypt is good

      The point is that you can have an unlimited number of encrypted volumes within encrypted volumes with no way of proving that they are there.

      Of course that plausible deniability is only useful in countries with legal systems - not those that will simply bundle you onto a plane to boratistan anyway,

    3. bitrat

      Re: TrueCrypt is good

      Hmmmm...that was kinda my thought too - but "I know nothing, nothing" as a sargeant Shultz said....what other tools are you suggesting?

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Surely it depends on

    who you are concerned about looking at your data?

    A. random hackers / scumbags who steal your kit

    B. Governments

    If it is A then you are probably ok (assuming your passwords / passfile is not on the same box);

    if it is B then it is safe to assume you are not.

    If you are worried about B you need to keep your stuff isolated from ALL networks.

    Would be nice to know that there were no backdoors but seriously doubt that most peoples home equipment is looked at by governments when the traffic they generate is so easy for them to slurp.

    1. bitrat

      Re: Surely it depends on

      Agreed......and it means no cell phones, no computers or electronics of any kind when such matter are discussed. My brother was in the USN & he once showed me one of their "quiet rooms" - Faraday cages, encrypted locks, bug detectors built in, etc - They'd go into that room and lock the door to discuss REALLY classified stuff - it had an odd feel to it - of course it looked like a holding cell in a federal prison....without the window!

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't care about being anonymous, I'm just too lazy to create a login ;*p Hey! They MADE me create one....so much for anonymity.

    Personally, never assumed truecrypt would withstand world class decryption - I use it for routine stuff - business records that contain private data on clients, the sort of stuff that if your laptop is stolen you don't want available to anyone. Yes, I use a bios pwd and a disk pwd, but it's information on OTHER people, not me, so it's my responsibility to try to keep it safe. Obviously, if a security agency of a large government is interested in me or any one else, they're gonna find out all that stuff anyway!

    Let's see - what WOULD be the security data that would interest them?

    -

    If you were encrypting data from organized crime

    -if you were encrypting child pornography

    -If you were encrypting evidence from felonies you were or had committed

    -if you were using it for espionage

    LOL - well, I don't have to worry on those accounts, that's for sure! I guess it all goes back to the "who watches the watchers" concept. I believe some reciprocity should be possible: No, I don't wanna know what the nuclear launch codes are! ;*p , But , there should be some kind of civilian audit organization that is at least allowed to oversee the basic practices of the NSA & CIA, like there are for police departments in many places. I know, that's the Congress' job....but they're too close to the problem and are easily swayed by purported "threats to national security".

    Watched a movie last night about the nuclear program called "Building Bombs" which really showed how well meaning, basically really good people get caught up in regrettable enterprises....I know a couple people that, let's just say they have VERY high security clearances, and they're fun folks - smart, humorous, creative people. If it was just people like them running the NSA, I'd be like, "sure dude, here's all my passwords", ha ha ha ha! The problem is, there's always a few psychopaths that are attracted to positions of power and let's face it (eg in the military & the CIA) people who get a kick out of killing people and all sorts of other mean and nasty things as the song goes....Those people can inflict a lot of damage! So watchdogs please, NSA & CIA people: Most of us understand the need for some kind of security organization to, eg, look for the missing plutonium "pits" stolen (or sold) from Russian or other crumbled nuclear states.....but a little more openness wouldn't hurt..

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