Errm, a stupid question from a non brit.
Was the man fined because only Solicitors are allowed to do soliciting in this country?
Walsall magistrates found themselves strangely unconvinced by a Dudley man's claim that a prostitute found in his car was helping him buy tomatoes. Coppers eyeballed the "known sex worker" in Muhammad Ikhlaq's Nissan Micra in Walsall on 9 May, "apparently waiting for the driver to return from a nearby cash point", as the …
"Are hookers that cheap over there? The ones our politicians get caught with are far, far more expensive than that."
Its a market like any other, innit? Sure, you can find someone for twenty quid, but they are unlikely to compare favourably with one who's more like two hundred quid. Wee bit less likely to find the latter hanging around on the street touting for business, either.
"No, the law exists to keep prostitutes off the streets and in licenced "massage parlours". Local residents are generally opposed to seeing ladies of the night hawking their flesh on the streets. Probably because they lower house prices."
Actually no. The law is designed to keep prostitutes off the streets and away from men making money off them.
It is not in fact illegal to run a private flat or office for the purposes of sex for cash. IIRC you can have a partner or employee and employ a maid as long as she's a bit of a hound. You are not allowed to advertise however.
Of course if you become popular advertising will not be a problem.
And in the UK they arrest the customer as well as the worker.
> IIRC you can have a partner or employee and employ a maid as long as she's a bit of a hound.
No, you're not allowed partners or employees. In the UK, prostitution is legal but brothels are illegal, meaning that prostitutes are forced by law to work alone. Which is bloody dangerous. Personally, I think prostitutes ought to be allowed to share premises so that they can share the cost of hiring a security guard, and that making this illegal is absolutely appalling, considering how dangerous their job is.
"No, you're not allowed partners or employees. In the UK, prostitution is legal but brothels are illegal, meaning that prostitutes are forced by law to work alone."
I'd check that. I definitely recall a plan to allow 2 "sex workers" to work from the same premises. I'm not sure if they would be viewed as sole traders or an actual partnership but I'm not sure if the change got passed.
Something in a budget statement?
Let's get this straight - people like to talk about how screwed up it is in America, but over there they arrest and fine you just because someone who they believe (or know) to be a prostitute is sitting in your car, with no EVIDENCE of any crime taking place?
Who knows, maybe she offered to toss his salad and misunderstanding her intent he responded with "well, I need some tomatoes first"
Prostitution is not a crime in England and Wales - this allows HMRC to extract income tax from the (estimated) earnings of prostitutes, something they could not do if it were illegal. Solicitation for prostitution is a crime, on the part of prostitutes and their clients. This legislation is stupid and cynical.
Old Mother Justice made her way to market on her ass, which she had christened Law many years ago. She found it awfully stubborn and wily, and would have loved to ride on a horse, like her friend Lady Godiva, or her little hotheaded friend, Joan or Arc, but deep down she knew that she was stuck with it until the bitter end.
As far as I'm aware, unless the law has recently been changed, the law doesn't give a shit about what consenting adults do in private. Prostitution is legal in ones own home as long as it isn't advertised.
The problem is that this kind of arrangement (especially in the £20 range) is often not in private, far from it in fact.
"The problem is that this kind of arrangement (especially in the £20 range) is often not in private, far from it in fact."
True, but as you might notice in one of the articles linked from the original one "Five women and four men were detained [...] after Police received information suggesting that the property was being used as a brothel".
Now if all the women were there consensually and no force or coercion was being used to keep them there, then why is there a problem? It's all in private, nobody is being hurt (at least, not unless they want to be!) and every one is happy.
But, no, successive Governments have decided that two women working out of the same property is a brothel and if they have someone there as a security guard, he's classified as a pimp who is "living off immoral earnings".
Bravo, Governments! I bet we're all safer now...
> As far as I'm aware, unless the law has recently been changed, the law doesn't give a shit about what consenting adults do in private.
You make a good point.
The proper place for this kind of thing is in a brothel or by using some method of contact that doesn't rely on hawking it in the street (which some people rightly or wrongly object to [me, I don't really care that much]).
However, prostitutes are pushed to this situation because of the various prohibitions on the operating of a brothel. The insanity of our laws make it legal to be a prostitute, but illegal for anyone to engage in any practical way of acquiring customers.
"Really, there are a lot more important things to worry about in the world than people paying each other for sex."
I think its more devious than that: they pay each other for sex without paying any tax to the government.
Now you're suddenly in a whole heap of trouble because when the government realizes they're missing out on some tax income the gloves go off.
It's required. Because how else will those politicians pay for their own escort services?
I picked up a lady of the night by mistake one dark night in deepest darkest Tottenham.
I had just got a new car and thought I would go for a midnight spin. One of life's little pleasures...
As I was just making my way out of Tottenham this lady by the side of the road was waving her arms and it looked as if she was trying to flag me down. I thought she might be in trouble so I stopped the car. Thinking maybe she just needed a lift. She opened the door and got in...
I ended up dropping her about 20 yards down the road. I don't which one of us thought the other one weirder.
It's easily done. At that time I didn't realise I was on the spectrum. It might have come in handy if I had got nicked. Really don't know how I would have explained that one, apart from telling the truth - I thought she was in trouble or that she wanted a lift.
Wonder how long I would have got?
"I hereby sentence you Mr. Hardleigh-Hadderchance...."
Cries from my family in the courtroom...
Wonder how long I would have lasted in prison?
As the judge retires from a hard afternoon's sentencing, slipping into his naughty schoolgirl outfit to get spanked into next week by a leather clad dominatrix.
Life just isn't fair sometimes I suppose, but that is one I'm glad I 'got away with'.
I picked up a lady in Tottenham in very similar circumstances. I didn't drop her 20 yds further on, though.
She wanted a lift home, and I gave her one. Ok, you can stop the sniggering, because yes, she took me to bed. And it wasn't for money.
The only thing I regret is that such an event. with a desirable stranger, is something that has only ever happened to me once.
I have no sympathy with soliciting on the streets but shouldn't there have been some actual evidence before this man is fined so much money?
Considering the derisory fines (typically around £100) and sentences for assault and robbery where the victim is often left in fear of walking the streets this seems excessive as there was no victim!
"Really, there are a lot more important things to worry about in the world than people paying each other for sex."
If the world only consisted of adults you'd have a somewhat valid point. But you are forgetting that our streets and cars are also teeming with children. It is primarily to protect children that prostitution has been historically prohibited (when it has).
But okay it's the 21st century so I am obviously not saying we should stop adults paying for sex outright. Far be it for me to judge what two consenting adults get up to in private (apparently we are not allowed to hold such opinions these days). But nevertheless we do need to highlight such acts for the deviance they are if we are to stand a chance of maintaining the moral compass of wider society in the long term.
I am not a fan of the Nanny state, really I am not, but in cases of moral turpitude sometimes top down enforcement is necessary. I would propose an opt-in policy by which by default any driver picking up a prostitute would face prosecution, irrespective of excuses. Only drivers who had opted in to the prostitution scheme and had the license to show it would be legally permitted to pick up prostitutes. It goes without saying the same drivers wouldn't be allowed near kids. Kids or prostitutes, that would be the choice, you can't have both. That way everyone wins. The kids are kept away from the more sinful side of society, the lower class have their fun and women are "empowered" or whatever the justification for it is these days.
"It is primarily to protect children that prostitution has been historically prohibited (when it has)."
No. That might well have been the reason given; ("think of the children"), but it was done because society frowns on paying people for sex. Prostitution is not considered a legitimate occupation* so any and all reasons will be given for making it illegal.
That said, if brothels were legal, I suspect the rate of street prostitution would drop.
* except of course that paying for sex is legal in certain circumstances, provided the tax man gets his cut. I'd be interested to know that that tax rate is?
Rubbish. It is primarily because of prudery and secondarily because of property values.
In recent times it has also been to protect women from being forced into prostitution, but, in today's Britain, you can be sure that prudery trumps even the better and more valid motives.
Posted anonymously for obvious reasons. Some years ago, when war-driving was a bit of a craze, I installed the relevant stuff on my laptop and went for a drive around a large Northern city. "Ping" went the open-network notification. So I pulled over on a deserted street to see what the laptop said (this maybe 12 years ago?).
Within seconds the passenger seat was occupied by one of the oldest profession's followers who took no small amount of convincing that I had NOT stopped for her. Had Mr Plod taken an interest I think it would have sounded odd in court, too.
We live in an insane age. Interesting times for sure.
Draconian laws against the growing of a single plant. The oldest game on the planet illegal.
Prohibition does not work. It damages individuals and it damages society disproportionately.
In another hundred years, the rate things are going, it will actually be impossible to commit a crime, yet everyone will be a criminal.
When I lived in Kings X. I would regularly see pimps smack their 'bitches' blatantly on the street. A street where very often police would walk up and down. A street with CCTV up the proverbial. I really wanted to say something, but thought better of it. Some of the pimps were 6 foot 8 black men, some were 4 foot 11 Scotsmen. I fancied my chances against neither of them. And what if I had won that particular battle? It was a street I had to walk down every day. I can see why the vigilante sub-genre of film is so poplular. Charles Bronson I am not.
I often wonder what would have happened should one of the policemen see the pimp smacking his 'bitch' up in plain daylight on the Kings X road. Cocked a deaf 'un, I would imagine. This is a street where lone women and children walk down. It was a disgrace.
Prostitution should be legal. In fact, where I used to live - opposite the Magistrate's court in fact, there was a massage parlour with a lot of lovely blonde ladies working there. I would often catch a glimpse of a 'trader' coming out all refreshed and popping off in his 911. This is a hundred yards from the Magistrate's court. I don't even know if that is legal or illegal. Technically there is no law against paying a lady to give you a back rub, but I would imagine there is one for things further on. I never saw it raided.
I will never understand why men pay women for this 'thing'. It is anathema to me. But hey ho. If others wish to partake, then good for them. It certainly would make the streets safer. And less lives would be ruined. I would imagine a wife would 'click' on sooner or later. I can see why she might be a little miffed. But court, fines, criminal records (do you get a criminal record for this?) only add insult to injury.
Make it legal. What the hell, tax it. Safe places for people who consent. And we shall leave the morals of the situation down to the individuals involved. 'Darling, I visited a prostitute today', or even, 'Darling I prostituted myself today'. I hate that word 'prostitute', btw, it is obtuse and callous. I suggest a different name for our ladies of the night - may we call them 'Sisters of mercy'?
For they will never be departed or gone.
Bless their little stocking tops.
This is kind of shocking I suppose that no actual crime was seen to have been happening.
I used to live in balsall heath and was friends (yes ACTUAL friends lol) with several prostitutes and regularly socialised with them went for nights out etc and even dated a few
What this prosecution seems to suggest is that just being in the proximity of a suspected sex worker could see you being prosecuted making it kind of impossible for them to have any friends or social life for fear of this kind of thing happening to their friends if they were ever in their car
I also find it kind of disappointing that the government still pursues prostitution rather than just legalising it though. As the "ruling classes" seem to be the biggest bunch of pervs in the country it seems to be sending out the message that sex on demand isn't for peasants and poor folk, nothing else
And as a trailing thought, its hardly going to be believable that a prostitute would be a likely person to help you choose tomotas
Had be been shopping for plums, a salami, bananas, donuts, chocolate donuts, melons or heck, even a kebab it would have been far more believable
This goes back 40+ years. I was sitting in court, waiting for a friend's case to come up on the docket.
In this city, back then -- and still, from what I understand -- cops cruise by and sollcit street hookers. As soon as the hooker accepts and gets into the cop's car, he flashes his badge and arrests her.
A hooker's case came up. The arresting officer testifed that he pulled up alongside her, yelled out the window, "Where's the action in this town?" She replied, "For $20, I could be the action." "Get in." And then he arrested her.
The hooker's lawyer was sharp. He reviewed the cop's testimony to him, and the cop said, "Yes, that's what happened."
Then the lawyer dropped his bombshell. "At any time, did either of you mention sexual intercourse?"
"Well. er, uh, no," the cop stammered and sputtered.
"Your honor, I move for a dismissal."
And the judge granted it!
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